You've been building decks wrong.
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
- Here's some advice about building a good Yugioh deck, which I've learned from having built... let's just say "several decks" over the years. Don't think you need to run every card at 3. And don't think you should never run a card at 3! What matters most is that you really know exactly why you're running a card at 1, 2, or 3 copies per deck. Every card and every strategy is different, and your opponent's cards and strategies will also factor into this!
MBT's video: • MURDER YOUR DARLINGS.
Pliny pictures are from Wikipedia, which is definitely more accurate than his encyclopedia. To be clear, Pliny did his best--the blame is on medieval academia for not properly building upon his work!
Garnet card is by LightArcIndumati on DeviantArt: www.deviantart...
Diabellestar Rescue-Ace, Limit 1 deck from Gecko-chan: www.masterduel...
Also, big thanks to my friend Terence for helping with this script and introducing me to the deeper realm of game theory! (He's the one who helped me build Sapphire Surprise too!)
I do vlogs, comedy, Nintendo stuff, and apparently card games now. Subscribe for more adventures, and hit the like button because it's free and keeps me from crying at night.
‘Not to imply Yu-Gi-Oh players are dumb’
But they are though.
As a yugioh player I can confirm
Ur dumber😢
True
Y'know if we Yugioh players read we might be offended by whatever you just wrote. Guess I'll never know
Lol
@@knes167 If we read we will lose time to cook our combos
Don't forget that Ash is a tuner and can be normal summoned to make a synchro.
Very important, especially for decks with level 7 synchros!!!
[proceeds to forget immediately, every time]
Making Arc Light or Armory Arm in Drytron is very funny.
honestly this is far scarier that the other normal summon ash
Or as Link fodder. But that only works in decks that can summon her, in spright e.g. shes most of the time not a good summon
As well as most of the ghost girls and vailer even though vailer is technically not a ghost girl and she is a lv 1 tuner. Also ogere can be summoned off of e-teliport.
I gotta run 3 ash to keep our local branded puppet lock player in check.
Have you considered running Gimmick Puppets? 🤔
Have you considered playing floowandereze
@@tumage8592 But if he does that then somebody will need to keep the local Floo player in check (by not allowing them inside the store)
Just use his puppet as tribute fodder for the domain lock 🗿
@@tumage8592 Can Bird Floo FTK? Gimmick Puppets can FTK. 😈
The only issue is measuring the "disparity in power" between 2 handtraps. In that regard, Ash blossom and joyous spring can be used in three separate scenarios where the others can be used in 1 or 2. Such an array of usefulness makes drawing multiples less worrisome because you can almost certainly use it next turn. Belle and ogre has varying effectiveness on the deck you play against, so a more ubiquitous approach to stopping opponents is taken by using the 3 ash. This is no rebuttal to your claims, but merely something to further consider.
It's not so much about the number of situations a handtrap applies to, since every deck does everything nowadays, as it is the impact when something is negated. Negating a search or a graveyard effect is usually more significant than destroying a monster when it activates its effect on field. For that reason, I typically start with 2 Ash, 2 Mourner, 2 Imperm, since I know all three of those cards are nearly guaranteed an impactful negate every game.
This is Yu-Gi-Oh. What the hell is a "next turn"?
@BoP that's the problem, it's not an interactive game anymore. There may be two opponents, but realistically it's only a one player game now.
A wrinkle with that, is often games are frontloaded in the first few turns. Do you have the capability to use that second ash blossom if you didn’t draw an additional handtrap?
@@yurisei6732You don't usually use Ogre to destroy a monster, even though that can be good for cards like Albaz, you use it to negate permanent spells/traps or field spells. It outshines Ash there, as Ash only negates the search, but leaves the cards on the field for the next turn.
Funny, I came to this conclusion myself after playing a deck with Crossout. I usually run 3 ofs of the handtraps i want, but in the Crossout deck I have 2 ofs, and 1 ofs. I found myself almost never opening two ash, and usually having better handtrap options.
Crossout is a VERY visible example of toolboxing! Can't believe I forgot to give it a shoutout in this video!
I've been on 2 of hand traps since ash blossom first released and I've never regretted that decision
My rule of thumb is never run 3 unless you can actually use all 3 of those cards in one turn, or it's some super-important staple that you literally need 3 of for a deck to work.
That feel when you can’t draw two copies of a one of
“Normally you can only use cards once per turn”
Laughs in Dark World
Same🤣
Me watching this as I'm modifying my Dark World deck lmao
Sadly the best card is hard once on the summon. Genta.
@@flapskeygo yeah the special from banishment, but either way it’s their only main deck monster with a hard once, still agree tho 😢
@@flapskeygo only the special from banish is a once per turn, you can dis it for gates as many times as you want!
This kinda reminds me of the Pokemon TCG community. Since Pokemon has so many good searchers, you won't run four copies of a card unless you feel that you will need to use all four.
Pokemon is so very different from every other TCG. You need specific cards in your hand or you literally can't play at all (energy, energy acceleration, Switch, Rare Candy, etc), so it's a big game of chance as you redraw new hands every turn hoping you hit that required card. And the Prize mechanic removing random cards from your deck at the start of the game...
In some ways, the searching economy in Pokemon is way more interesting than that of Yugioh, because you always have to think about that spanner in the works that is the possibility of your search target randomly ending up sequestered in your prize pool.
@@MarkThePage Pokemon's clunkiness with draws used to be offset by appropriate clunkiness in attack costs. Check out the e-Series block (which never got independent play in real life) to see what peak Pokemon could be like. Many people also enjoy EX block, but it's a little more flashy than e-Series.
I once looked into Pokemon's history! Do the retro formats have an actual player base? The Gen 3 stuff had so many cool ideas, though I felt bothered by the ubiquity of Claydol (and I think Holon's Magneton? If I somehow actually remember that?). I think Platinum was the peak, and I actually built a Galactic deck though I never actually played in a tournament. Then HGSS wiped out all of the game's creative depth forever...
@@MarkThePageSome dedicated people still make tournaments for the Ex format, there was one a few months ago in Japan!
Personnally I love the old Pokémon TCG, I have been doing a Progression Series of it with 2 friends on Tabletop Simulator!
I no longer play Yugioh, and dont ever intend to return, but the "sLiFeR sLaCkErS EUAGH" earned my like on this video
You were never missed anyways.
@@BboySquidfoot wow dude. save some toxicity for your future grand kids, jeeze,
You'll definitely be back. No one quits 😂
Lmao I liked at the same point
@@weloveyugioh In this format??? I wouldn't be suprised if Konami puts the game down by 2026
I think you make an assumption here that is not necessarily true. Not every card is created equal. Some cards are so specifically strong in certain situations, you can't swap something of equal value. For example, in certain formats, turn ending handtraps like dimension shifter and droll and lock bird have no suitable substitute if you can run them.
Figuring out which cards have this much value in a given format is important, and staples do wax and wane from format to format since their effectiveness in a given format vary. Ash Blossom usually can't stop a snake eye combo, but its a better option than ghost ogre against it.
I definitely agree with your point of going over 40. Many decks have done this even as early as 2019 because of incredibly consistent redundant starters in the main and extra. It comes with the issue of the larger your deck is, the less you see your sidedecked nonengine into important matchups games two and three. Decks can still do well over 40 though, branded just topped at the NAWCQ with a 50 card list.
Actually, I did state that cards should still be run in duplicates if they are at least twice as useful as what you'd expect to draw instead (thus being worth losing a draw to access). In the example of a payoff matrix, different cards can be assigned different values for different situations. That can help in considering whether each individual card is useful enough to justify the fail rate introduced by running duplicates.
You forget he actually stated the initial assumption.
The initial assumption that it's actually more of a detriment (the -5 scenario) when drawing multiples than it's good counterpart (the multiple +1 scenarios)
Dimension shifter is a game winner alone.
Especially in MD when most players will just scoop against it. The scenario when you draw multiples might still be a -5 but drawing one is making any detriment negligible
There's not nearly enough deckbuilding discourse that explore concepts like minimizing HOPT bottlenecks, flexible searches versus inflexible searches, Garnet and brick ratios relative to the "hardness" of them, as some can still be live if drawn if you also drew a way to get them into the GY or something, and concluding the discussion with the tacit implication that Forbidden Droplet is one of the best designed cards ever printed by letting you weaponize your bricks and duplicates as negates as long as you still have sufficient engine to play through what's left.
Good video.
"If it's in your deck it's probably good." You underestimate my stupidity.
Evenly Matched is a funny example of a card you sometimes really want to open multiple of
I love that you popped in here just to give this random anecdote, as if we didn't spend hours discussing the theoretical mathematics behind this script.
Same is true for Imperm and Veiler, they're both not OPT.
@@four-en-tee to be specific, it's that when you skip to end of battle to use the first evenly matched and it gets negated, the best card for you to have in your hand is another evenly matched.
@@MarkThePage They never expect the second Evenly
@@grilledcheezvirtualoniisan8670 dropping two evenly on my opponent makes me feel like Madara
I ve listen to you. I changed my Shark deck in masterduel completely and I love the result. It is insane what hands I ve had. At least for this lower tier deck it helped alot. I run a 50cards deck rn and the consistency of drawing playable hands going first or second changed drastically!
I did this with a few cards in my deck. Jack in the Jand was important for me to get cards into my hand, but drawing more than one was a problem since it's a hard once per turn. Had to cut it to two so it lessened the frequency of duplicates. I also found board breakers a bit more effective by putting them to two so instead of many evenly matches in hand it would be two board breakers that focused on different things.
Main deck cards are really powerful, only extra deck size will be the determining limit. In a few years you'll go from two archetypes together in a deck to three of them in almost highlander looking decks due to other engines picking up the slack if you didn't draw cards from the other archetypes.
My decks are already there! Everything I build is such a mashup, and yes, the extra deck is EVERYTHING. I noticed recently that my deckbuilding revolves around how many slots I have left. It's all about extra deck searchers, and whether one can afford the additional slots required for Link climbs, and Xyz changes.
I had a friend in school who was the comp yugioh guy and I remember him telling me to run 5 1-ofs that could stop any strategy and it genuinely helped alot
Running garnets at 2 might be better than running them at 1, especially if they're not completely dead in hand. Drawing into your one of is much more likely than drawing both copies of your 2 of, meaning you'll have a copy in deck to use.
THIS! I mentioned this in my Crystal Beast guide. Nearly everyone will say to use just 1 Rainbow Dragon, then complain about losing for drawing it. I myself tend to lose immediately whenever I'm foolish enough to side out the second copy!
Drawing 1 of 2 copies can hurt, but not nearly as much as drawing 1/1 of a vital combo piece. The concept of payoff matrices is very helpful for explaining these kinds of tradeoffs. (Every deck is different so everyone should make their own calculations here.)
Laurel in Plant Link is a recent example of this. Plant Link can be run at 60 cards and Laurel isn't that awful to draw because you often have lines where the special summon effect is live
See, this is why I run 2 Baller in GP PUNK. Ideally you dont want to hard open it, but its better to ensure there's still one in the deck.
My deck is a 50 card brew anyways, I have the space for a second copy.
2 union driver club
@@stardust9470 Laurel’s not a garnet, though, because you can just Summon her from hand if you draw her. The reason you’d run 2 Laurel is because some combo lines need 2-but improved combo lines have been found that need only 1, meaning you only need 1 Laurel.
You have no idea how happy this made me about my apparently odd decision to run staples at 1 copy (save Ash, which I run at 2, because it's the one I have 2 of). I myself have found that, even at a single copy, Ioften wind up seeing my stake cards in my opening hand anyway, so this checks out to me.
You might helped me cementing my YCS HERO list as I am struggling with the 40th card. After this video I said “yeah fk it, one talent, one thrust, one lonely imperm. I am playing HERO, I desperately need more multiple-axis cards, flexibility and diversity.”
We have time until november, let’s test this list using this mentality for the non engine, which btw I absolutely agree with 😂❤
All I'm seeing here is that you made a 39-card Hero deck. HOW? I try to make my own every few months and it's always 80 cards, AFTER cutting! When you can run pretty much any quantity of search spells/Stratoses, how in the world do you decide on the right number!?
Hero is the best example to go over 40.
@@MarkThePage I am simply building it towards the maximum amount of USABLE engine which is 30 without sacrificing the grind game. So the standard 3 stratos and 2 increase for example. The rest is 10 non engine which all of them must be either quick play board breakers so that can be used go 1st or 2nd, or impactful cards that at least trade 1 for 1 with the opponent board. And as much as I play 3 talents, if I draw 2 OR THREE means I have dead cards in hand, and this deck to thrive in this format NEEDS all 6 six cards. Hence why also no handtraps cause make the engine too weak.
So as of now my 10 non engine cards are 3 eclipse, 2 droplet, 1 calledby, 1 Talent, 1 thrust, 2 imperm.
All and all we need a banlist, the gap between rogue and meta is INSANE 😭
Btw sorry for the yapping I love deckbuilding and HERO so much
@@YukiHeroYGO okay but two imperm i dont get cause that one is literally live all the time, not once per turn, until you commit, and even then, you can set it with the bonus effect too
@@snakevenom56 It’s not final xD but yeah I’ll probably find a way to slide the third in, it’s especially good cause doesn’t get calledbyed or procs Tactics
About the video tho, someday I am gonna roll at locals with a deck with like 12 different one ofs and I am sure It’ll be fun. No duplicates/highlander is such a fun experience! Even if it’s just the staples, the opponent will never know what to expect! Haha 😂
Ngl When I first watched this video I was like "Nah this is insane play 40 cards for consistency or play 60 for pile" Then after a lost streak on MD I tested out your theory of playing more cards and one of hand traps or more hand traps without a once per turn and now i'm streaking in Master about to hit M1. My win rate from like 49% to 60% 💀. It worked extremely well because i'm currently playing Yubel, I was playing it at 40 which was okay... The problem is Yubel plays a ton of bricks, so if you off set the bricks with extra 1 ofs well you'll get less bricks. Anyway I wanted to shout out to you, you were right and thanks for making this vid.
An interesting question I ask sometimes is how many cards I would run if there was no minimum or maximum deck size.
Magic the Gathering has a mechanic called legendary creatures, which are creatures that you can't have more than one of on the field at once. If you have two legends with the same name, one of them has to go to the graveyard. Thus, the first copy is a stronger than average creature for that mana cost, but the rest are useless except as backups. Due to the drawback, magic players normally don't run more than 3 of the same legendary creature in a deck, even though the maximum allowed is 4.
Mtg goldfish can show that thats not true, core cards are 4 of, chord of calling decks dont need 4 of anything, earlygame legends arent worth the chance of drawing lategame, in any quantity. Its not because people are worried about flooding out in a format where one and often zero mana kills anything
@@kiraangle2823 There's exceptions to the rule.
Magic The Gathering still primarily draws its cards instead of searching them, and there are basically no cards you just don't want in your hand. It's a slightly different scenario. Though, I've actually been building my decks using the math and strategy behind this video for several years. I play mostly singletons for the sheer power of diversity, with crucial strategy pieces that I very much want in every starting hand at the max number of copies. Something like Sheoldred the Apocalypse is strong, strong enough to draw enemy removal out, which actually makes the legend rule almost a strength, as it encourages the player to not overcommit their resources and instead hold something back as a way to effectively neutralize your opponents' removal.
"More bricks than a crystal beast deck"
Oof. They can't catch a break.
There are specific cards in your opponent that you have to stop that's why its relevant to put a multiple copies of the specific counter cards against your opponent..
For example, since I'm an ocg player I'll make maxx C a very good example, the only cards that can practically stop it are ash and called.. If you only put 1 of each ash and called, the higher chance you will be punished by your opponent's maxx C..
Ash Blossom does have a unique role here! I wonder what a payoff matrix would look like for Ash vs Maxx C... Because if you draw a counter but the opponent doesn't draw a Maxx C for it to negate, then you've wasted a draw. Then account for whether Ash/Called still has a compelling impact compared to the average draw of your deck. And the strength of an average turn from a 4-card hand vs what your average 5-card hand can achieve under Maxx C...
Floodgates simplify the game, but it's still so complex!
@@MarkThePage Depends on what the utility of those other 'counter' cards generally are. Something like Ash, if you can get to that turn 3 or 4, often don't feel that bad to draw in multiples, because its pretty easy to use them over multiple turns, and at least has *some* utility against every deck. As you yourself said, searching in modern yugioh is king. Draw your tactics, belle or ogre against the wrong matchup/without your opponent triggering it, its often dead for the whole game. Draw two Ash vs runick stun, you probably think "thank god, i might be able to stabilize and get a win." Draw one ash and belle, that ash better do its job cause it has one chance. What you've said is generally correct, but at the same time, lets not pretend why there isn't a reason that cards like belle, ogre, reaper, gnomaterial if you want to get silly, and even cards that are just hopt versions of veiler and imperm like mourner, tend to have to wait in line to get into deck lists vs Ash, veiler, imperm, and nibiru
Well we get maxx 3 soon, soooooo time for the maxx 3 mini game baby
In his video, MBT argues that Ash is often run because it's the most generally applicable, but it should typically then be sided out in favor of more effective counters. We also consider Ash to be "the card to run" because it's more eternal than other cards--but that's an OVERALL trend, not one which necessarily holds true at any specific meta.
"If you draw a counter but your opponent doesn't draw maxx C"
What a laugh bro.. XD
I understand your point of view, but I don't know if you truly understand how the meta works or not..
If possible, you can try the OCG format with minimal hand traps and see if what you tell is purely correct. And continue telling it once you got 1st place.
It's not just about maxx C, but to all 1 card combo decks today like fiendsmith, yubel and snake eyes.
In OCG or MD you would like wanted to have 2 Ash blosom if you are going second. 1 is for stopping enemy best card play and another is for defending Maxx 'C'.
Ash gives but she also takes away
Mostly takes away.
As Ash giveth, so she Taketh
Hash blossom, taco belle and toast ogre. The three stooges
You got yourself an instant fan here.
I have always loved what the OCG meta used to do. Two copies of every meta hand trap to prevent bricking on multiples. It’s really good in my opinion
Besides Branded, Infernoble is one other perfect example of a deck that is better being played as (mostly) a singleton list, and can sometimes benefit from being a pile to avoid opening into spells you want Isolde to dump, or Museum to get to (to then allow the SS from Equip effect).
Sometimes it really is just infinitely better to have more variety in your single-use special summons and/or effects, than going 2-3x on certain things and limiting your ability to make plays if you open multiples.
Your video opened my mind a lot. I used to play a deck with a lot of one card combos, so I was playing 3 of each. However, some hands were getting really bricky due to the hopt clause. I switched the least important ones to 2 and now draw multiple different starters (Each starter is technically an extender depending on the disruption used btw) and have more space for nonengine
6:00 Best example is plants. Nowadays 60 is the standard because it runs like 4 cards you absolutely don't want to draw.
This seems to not take into account the reason we run max handtraps.
That some hand traps arent useable in certain formats.
Like you can use say ash, ghost, and effect veiler as 1 offs but if its a format where ghost isnt useful then why run it
I did take that into account! Notice the conditional: "IF there is not a huge disparity in usefulness between..." So just be sure to consider just how impactful each card is in relation to each other in the expected environment.
Even in a format where they ARE equally impactful, they may not be of equal impact in the comfines of a single game. They each do something different and might be useless if not drawn at the right moment. If you just play Ash, even if you risk duplicates, you can rely on it coming up when you need it instead of that only happening onxe every banlist
In a format where maxx c exists at 3 copies, unless you’re a floo player or trap gimmick player etc.., you’re probably going to special summon on your turn. So you have to play the maxx c minigame before the real game starts. Ash has to be at 3 as well as called by and cross out at as many as legal. If you lose the maxx c minigame you probably lose completely 😔
I'm glad this video exists. I've gone over the math and the strategies in this video multiple times myself, and have been using them for the past several years. My game of choice is Magic The Gathering, so it's not exactly a 1:1 comparison. For example, in Magic we still mostly draw our cards, so there are no cards in our decks that we're ever upset to see in our opening hand. But, the power of diversity is pretty overwhelming, both in a vacuum and in the context of metagames. If everyone's running 9 4-ofs, there's just no possible way for them to be able to handle 24 different unique threats or answers, and that still leaves me with 3 4-ofs myself to form the fundamental core of the deck's plan. Even the minimum deck size thing that most players hold sacrosanct is not actually all that impactful by comparison to the advantage this diversity brings. MtG is in a state where it's a lot harder to build a strong deck this way, but with Yugioh it almost feels like it might be hard not to. Though to be fair my experience playing Yugioh is only a few months of Master Duel, around the time that Tearlaments were dominating. I was using a silly Dragonmaid deck, and I found it to be more consistent at 60 than at 40. I doubt it was a good deck, but it had a winning matchup against the so-called tier 0 threat of the time so... eh.
I have no idea how anyone builds decks in Magic when, due to having so many cards which are functionally nearly identical even in Standard, I feel like there's no limit to how many copies of each card you can really use. So it comes down to "what percentage of my deck do I want to be 2-mana attackers?"
I occasionally pop in and try building a Standard deck around a theme (because I'm a Yugioh player) and they're always 100 cards. I have trouble choosing between multiple cards of equal power levels and neither being searchable.
Good video. I literally went to every deck I have and took some cards down from 3 to 2
Nice vid, I rarely run 3 copies of anything that is a natural brick alongside itself. Surprised this is such a foreign concept. Well done (something good actually came from an MBT video).
Do people not like MBT? You can probably tell from my style that I'm not a fan of YugiTubers in general (I hail from a _very_ different part of UA-cam!), but his videos have seemed fine to me. He's a good, clear presenter.
@@MarkThePage I don't find him all that entertaining but there's really nothing wrong with him
@@MarkThePage See that's my problem, he's good at sounding like he knows what he's talking about, but as somebody who lives and breathes TCGs (too much for his own good sometimes) he just states things that are outright wrong, meaning he's either uninformed or misrepresenting the truth.
Though if you like him don't take my comment too seriously, I'm not the type who polices who people enjoy watching. I'll at least say he clearly loves the game (or maybe at least hates it less than he hates other things).
Biggest take away is this though, I liked your vid more than one of his, so if you think he's great, then that means I think you're even greater than him.
I didn't know why pros ran ratios of 3-2-2 hard once per turn hand traps until now. What incredible insight!
Great video, agree with this point when you are running less than 12 hand traps, but at the high hand trap counts, its hard to find replacements imo, correct me if i am weong though
Good point! For a deck built around a small engine, nothing does what they do for covering both turns. Personally though, being a combo player who loves engine piles, I have no experience with decks like that! I would rather mix in strategies which can break boards or set up disruption (though not every handtrap.dek will have good, synergistic access to that stuff). I see something like this happening with Snake-Eye players moving to Fiendsmith, running more in-engine cards now.
I think this video has a good point but since most duels only last 2-3 turns and disruptions are very crucial. Running 3 of a card just to maximize your chances of drawing it turn one is a better strategy than it seems when doing the math.
*Cries in Master Duel with Maxx C legal at 3*
I can't say I agree with not running multiples, but thank you for 6:10 ive been trying to say this since 60 card pendulums during toss format! Dilute your bricks if you have to run so many!
This is kinda niche but I'm really impressed with your dynamic presentation, like when you reveal the 3 Ash Blossoms from out of frame at 0:08 or the 2 different cards at 4:07. It's keeping the video visually entertaining without too much editing. You clearly know what you're doing.
Sorry for the unsolicited feedback but have you thought about taking acting classes? I think your script is good, your ideas are good and you understand the medium, but your stage/camera presence is imo the biggest weakness I can see right now. I can still very much tell that you're speaking into a camera and that you don't quite have the confidence to go "all-out" in your delivery. For example at 6:42, as someone who has a lot of experience on stages and in front of cameras, I can tell that you're still feeling too self-conscious in your delivery and as a result there's some hesitation there.
My acting coach put it like this: Before you get on stage/in front of the camera, you should imagine a drawer. You put your self-awareness in the drawer and close it. Then, for as long as the camera is running, you gotta believe you're the reincarnation of Freddie Mercury and Robin Williams combined, everything you do is awesome and entertaining and you're 100% focused on doing the best performance possible. Once the camera is off, you can open the drawer and take your self-awareness back out. MBT is actually a really good creator to learn from in this regard, that man has an amazing camera presence and will deliver the most ridiculous lines with 100% confidence. And remember, he's also just talking to a camera by himself.
This is an interesting comment... I am an actor! This is the first time anyone's said that my script was better than my presentation! It's also the first time I've talked about mathematics. It was tough! Far more information-dense than regular speech.
For the line at 6:42, that's the energy of all of my outros. I don't force sudden, loud calls to action as if I'm a big content creator, as if I'll ever have their audience. Nearly everyone who aims for that crashes and burns.
Perhaps I'm also still figuring out how to pitch myself to the Yugioh community. We're not exactly known for our love of cute, gay vloggers--let's not rock the boat TOO hard. I'll have a new recording setup soon that'll give me more freedom of expression.
I am learning a lot of this game thanks to your explanations and perspectives of playing. Thank you so much, the right amount of jokes make the videos worthy to watch repeatedly 😂❤
I don't even play YGO, but I enjoyed your video, your humor, and the sharp wit and insight you offered. Suuubscribed!
The thing specifically with Ash in MD is that Maxx-C is legal, requiring every possible out to be played. And the thing with Ash is the sheer utility of it as opposed to something like Shifter if you draw multiple. I know with almost certainty that I'll be able to Ash something that my opponent is trying to do on the next turn, whereas other handtraps are much more situational or are legitimately dead draws in multiples
Also, loved the Pliny the Elder reference lol
noted: one time per turn : reduce / multiple times x turn : keep, better if they are super useful / multiple uses (in your deck) like ash x lvl 7 monsters -synch + handtrap- is ok but other way run multiple other not once per turn hand traps you have more chance to use your entire hand no bricks
I use 2 ofs for my non engine. It feels better and siding is easy following the same. (Odd 15th card is duster usually.) Layered interaction is truly amazing and those 3rd copies become a pair of talents, droplet, etc
Mathematically it works very well
The math changes up when siding is involved, because there's less guesswork in the effectiveness of your cards. You'll likely be siding in cards so powerful that you might not mind drawing all 3 copies at once. And as for what to side out... that's an art of its own.
Breath of fresh air, subscribed! Thank you!
I use 2 copies for for my main hand traps and 3 for cross out because it’s basically negating so many hand traps that can stop my pain points
Im happy youre challenging some of the common misconceptions about game theory.
I've learnt through trial and error how 40 cards aren't necessarily the most optimal. I was surprised to see how much better a deck ran with 50 cards instead of 40.
40 is consistency. 45 is good if you expect to use 20+ cards in a turn. 50 offers a respectable amount of utility, and encourages smoke screen tactics. And then there's those crazy people with 60 cards. Reverse consistency theory states that, if it is true that reducing your deck side increases odds of a specific draw, then the inverse can also be true, allowing you to run more garnets.
Considering I mostly play older formats, then I indeed should build decks as always because searchers are not that common.
Older formats also have a larger disparity between strong and weak cards. Never forgot that Pot of Greed and De-Spell came out in the same set. If you could make a deck with 40 1-ofs of equal power in those formats, then the advice in this video would be more relevant to those formats.
This reminds me a bit of advice that's given to people getting into Magic: the Gathering. Or at least it was; I don't keep up that well with it anymore. They're different enough games that not everything transfers over perfectly (mainly in relation to velocity of play and quantity of search effects/tutors), but I think the main takeaway that's given to newer players getting more serious about deckbuilding holds. The key is about the *feel* of a card when drawn. How often is it live? How often do you need it to be? How often does it feel good to draw vs how often does it feel bad? If you find yourself not liking seeing it, back off a copy or 2. If it always feels great, run 4. It's something that you get a feel for in playtesting, rather than adhering to a formula or following common wisdom. I think yugioh player have some understanding of this, but frequently fail to articulate it properly. They end up getting lost in the weeds of the 3-of default assumption because they forget they can run fewer copies of something rather than trading it out for some other 3-of that bricks slightly different scenarios.
I like to use Emergency Teleport with Ghost Ogre.
Since Ogre can pop from the field emergency makes one from the deck live on the opponents turn, and can give you a level 7 synchro in a typical deck if used during yours.
This vids was very enjoyable i love deck as a concept percentages and what not. Ive always avoided duplicates personally for my cb decks as much as possible so i can bait more things. HOWEVER that doesnt acknowledge the garnets we run.😂
You make me feel so much better about my Speedroid decks; always seems to be balanced between 43 to 47 cards and I hate when I get duplicate Terrortops or Taketomborg!
Speedroid is imo a deck you need to play at 47 at least because there is so much cards you don't want to draw duplicates but at the same time you want one copie and you have a lot of cards to search them. Also if you want to have room to play small extenders or generic hand trap, spells you can't have enough size in a 40 card deck with often bricking.
Thank you for making this video. I used to make this point, but off the basis of Yugioh being a game made for fun & not a game with inherently "good" or "bad" cards, just cards that work out in your favor in more or less of your duels
being a mostly tearlaments player makes discussions about deckbuilding much more complicated because now you're not just worrying about cards you want to draw and cards you want to search, you also have cards you want to mill
Thanks for the video. Just hoped to Yugioh, and still confuse about bthe deck building.
If only it wasn’t such a pain to build decks be it physical or digital.
I enjoy the idea of only owning one deck and playing that one religiously. [But with Meta changes there will always be at least one type of deck you want to try out and then you have to grind again]
I can appreciate however that once you have the core of your deck, you don’t need anything else.
Imagine the hell this game would be if you had to level up your cards as well.
I like this video its great to see some real math and teaching in a video
I am very much on Board with this. I only play 3 offs in a select few Cases, like
some Fieldspells, my Blue Eyes, and selfsummoners like "Peten, dark Clown"
or "Destiny Hero Malicious". Otherwise i prefer the Animestyle, where they value
variety over multiples
The unexpected trump imitation was unexpected and had me laughing out loud. This was a very fun and informative video and the first time YT algo recommended. Definitely subbed! 👍🏻
Great idea for a video, throughly enjoyed!
This comment section is crazy. Multiple times people are saying you need a 3 of because its impactful in a meta, which straight up is missing the point. Its saying when a card is as good as another you get a slight % increase in consistency. You still run 3 ash vs snake eyes, you need it in the matchup going 2nd. Its just important to know that you're technically losing playable card consistency to do this, which for most matchups is well worth it.
I did find it funny that my branded one of for the "one of" for the master duel event functioned so well and the recursion was insane.
Minor correction for you: "garnet" does not describe a card that is useless when drawn, it describes a card that actively prevents you from activating a different card if drawn. Brilliant Fusion can only send from deck, so if you draw the gem-knight (and only play 1) the 3 copies of BriFu in your list not cannot be activated.
You still want to draw as many starters and extenders as possible, so 40 cards is ideal. You want to put in all of those cards and then start adding staples until you get to 40. Also a second copy of ash blossom can often be useful. You end up using one on your turn often enough. But yeah for searchable cards you can often do well with just one.
If you draw as many starters and extenders as possible, then you are drawing no hand traps, board breakers, or protection.
If we do start building the deck by putting in all the starters and extenders... well, for increasingly many decks that already puts you above 40 cards, if not 60 cards.
Every card, deck, and strategy is different. No one set of principals will amount to good advice for ALL of them.
@@MarkThePage You're right, if you add more starters in a 60 card deck you will achieve the same consistency. It does depend what you're playing. And these new decks have sooo many options.
Yeah, I started running doubles instead of three because of this. My rule of thumb is if you *need* to see the card in your opener or if it has multiple uses (Mimighoul good example) then I would run three. If you never want to see it in your opener, run one. But anything else, extenders or interruption, run two.
Currently trying to build Ghoti for this format. Great going first, terrible going second, so much so that one duplicate in the hand loses me the game. I'm considering dropping all the extenders to one or increasing card count.
I'd love to follow your tips, but facing Yubel deck playing Solitaire 6 times in a row, makes it hard for me to let go 3 Ash from my deck.
That’s why playing blues eyes right now at 40 is crazy to me, 45+ gives more consistency
I actually use many 2 ofs and 1 ofs with few 3 ofs. I think I'm pretty good at assembling ratios the problem is that some decks just don't have what it takes to compete, many decks just miss that 1 or 2 support pieces to be viable. It also gets harder to be creative with deck building since komoney likes putting so many stupid restrictions on modern cards.
loneliness + alienation + fear + despair + self-worth ÷ mockery ÷ condemnation ÷ misunderstanding × guilt × shame × failure × judgment n=y where y=hope and n=folly, love=lies, life=death, self=Konami's cad game
I swear it happens every other game where ill draw 2 ashes going second and on my turn draw the third
FINALLY someone else gets this
Cool video!!!
Do you know about domain format?
It's a singelton multiplayer format... How do you think this math will affect that case?
After running all of my quantum duel formulas, I have calculated that the optimal Domain Format deck should run 1 copy of each card.
I thought this was only true if you are drawing your whole deck. Normally you draw your first 5 and then search everything else.
Im gonna take the ash point and add,
That in certain scenarios you rather draw all 3 then not have it
The obvious example is maxx c in master duel, where you run 6 cards just to counter it, even tho they may be useless against all the other decks in the format
And if there was a way to run 9 you would do that as well as the payout of maxx c is just to broken
Unless the opponent opens with Ash, Called, or Crossout--which is more likely than you having Maxx C--in which case opening with multiple Maxx C puts you at a big disadvantage.
I run 3x Maxx C, but I will be scrutinizing it heavily now.
I remember moving my deck to 44 cards actually barely decreased the consistency for single but increased by percentage of 2 card combos. Overalls increasing consistency. This actually maths and makes sense
I get what your saying and it makes sense like if your gonna draw 3 cards that can only be used once per turn over drawing 3 different cards but you need certain cards in most matchups to even have a chance to interact with them. There is also a argument that even drawing multiple ash could come up or any card in multiples as the board state and players hands have so many combinations that, that brick of a hand is actually the right hand to crack that board. Also we change formats so often that no format is ever solved you could even say that realistically in the end playing 50 or even 60 cards is actually the correct way to play and the most optimal way to play then just 40. This whole card game is based on chance yes most of time stuff is guaranteed but those are just search's and lines of play, the first 5 cards you draw are what really decides who wins or loses and how you play them.
I mean I more less already knew this. Especially since I am Duel Links player with smaller hand size and I have to always think "If I run 3 of these, how hard do I brick if I draw all of them".
It's why I use Card Calculators for looking at opening hands.
Hell, in Duel Links I was one of the people to predict the whole "You can play max amounts of cards in deck and still be insanely consistent" while people thought such things as absurd.
Having 3 copies of the same cards are usually reserved for "I need to have this card in hand in order to deck to function".
But back in the day it wasn't that abnormal to see card like Pot of Duality at 3. Duel pacing back then was just that much slower and you had a lot less searchers.
I fully agree man. There's no mana symbols on any of your cards 😢
This actually used to be a great game plan back in the days. Half your Goat deck was limited staples anyways but the amount of limited cards made people account for spent power cards like Mirror Force and Heavy Storm. Also back in the Synchro era (Tengu rather than Edison) I was able to do this with stuff like the Plant engine where everything was at 1 anyways but there was little to worry about because Level 1 Tuners had Lonefire, 141, and Foolish to come out. Any draw order was fine and making hands work was more fun this way.
Nowadays I imagine one would be wanting to max on the Maxx C (or the mulchummy for TCG) and then draw hand traps at 1 or 2 so you can draw into the variety and use them before the end phase hand reset effect. Although this would only become a thing if the hand traps are valuable dropped in like step 7 of the opponent's combo when you finally draw into them...... probably not since OCG hasn't been doing it with Maxx C on their side.
There was this one time when a 60 card Fire Fist deck topped some event because they were like "I'd rather have the extra options and everything is just equally searchable anyways" and probably also screwed with "Grass is Greener" plays as a cherry on top.
Reminds me of when I reduced 3 Piri-Reis Maps in my Exodia FTK deck to only 1 and that massively improved consistency, despite the card it searches (Royal Magical Library) being the absolute core of the deck. That's mostly due to the fact that if I draw it at any point other than my initial draw or the draw phase it's completely unusable. And since I often have to keep a chain of spell going this more often than not actually hurts my chances, despite the two extra copies giving me insane chances to get my library.
So…I don’t have to waste money on ash blossom?
Dang it... Somebody finally make a good video about YGO deck math...
I agree that sometimes 3 copy of once per turn handtrap such as Ash Blossom can be a dead draw when u open multiple of it... That is why you should consider make a play for, if you need to normal summon them (as link /xyz/ fusion material or even synchro tuner). Plays variant of handtraps also make crossout even stronger...
Also yep, forcing your deck size to 40 cards sometime become poison instead... Cz more likely to draw copy of your once per turn card or Garnet = less gas to play...
Ash may be not enough to stop most decks to make their combos, but a good player may use it on a key moment to disrupt the opponent's combo just enough so they can play through their end board. Cards like Ogre and Belle are best used against specific strategies and can't disturb your opponent's combo enough to the point of allowing you to make a counterplay in the next turn if your opponent's deck isn't particularly weak to those effects, while Ash is good against any deck, to the point of being more than worthy running the low risk of getting two copies in the starting hand, not to mention that if your deck have good 1 card combos getting multiple copies of the same card isn't a big problem.
so you are telling me that yugioh anime character were doing it right all the time by filling their deck with 1 off?
Watch this, next time someone will say playing a 60 card deck is better than 40 because you can play more outs to more decks
thanks to this video I'll go back to my old stupid plan of making highlander(limit one) decks of every archetype I like that can afford it
I think that a very significant change in games like YGO is card quality thats why not allways 40
Hm, I didn't consider that part, but true. I should reduce my Ash and Ghost Rabbit to 1 and replace the extra two with 1 Ghost Ogre and Called by the Grave instead.
Crossout Designator also gains much greater value as well when running multiple 1 or 2 of's instead of triples. Gives yourself more variety of response.
That's kinda been what my side deck approach has been: side into more copies of certain handtraps and/or board breakers if I'm going second, or side into more handtrap variety and more copies of Designator if going first.
Or one of my funnier approaches, running something that goes second - Gren Maju - and siding hard into anti-meta with things like Inspector Boarder and Pachycephalo with more backrow predicting them to call me to go first. It works out well with a base deck that runs one-of's of Kaijus and Small World and can basically stall until turn 3 then switch right back to Gren Maju things.
I build my deck on pure animal instinct. Ratios? I add and remove cards based on how often it feels like I start with them in hand. Master Duel is wonderful for this because it's fast and easy to get in and out of a duel, one way or another.
there is another guy on youtube who talked about the birthday paradox
Dude, this was a great video!
Didn't expect Pliny the Elder and the values of the Enlightenment
The title plus first sentence means you know solidly how to play Yu-Gi-Oh - with a credit card.
The actual first step in building a deck is to spend 10 hours reconfiguring your TCGplayer cart to save $2 on shipping.
So basically: this is why you should sometimes consider running 2 copies of a non-engine piece instead of 3.
For example: I think 2 Fenrir is generally the optimal ratio for that card. It's not like its the focus of your deck if you're running it generically, and ideally you want to only search the other copy. Unless you REALLY need to see it against the deck you're facing, its otherwise a potential brick in your hand unless your deck cares about discarding stuff in your hand (such as Snake-Eye).
It just depends on the deck you're piloting.
The garnets argument though is a flawed one i've made in the past. If we really cared that much about not wanting to draw soft garnets, then Pot of Greed would be back at 1. I should know, I was stupid enough to open my mouth lmao.
As OCG & MD player, I hate the fact that I have to run 3 maxx and 3 ash then loses because I opened both cards at multiple copies 😂
Iam not building Decks wrong. Iam building Decks with Restraint, Honor and Fairness in Mind.
I get that you're talking about the TCG here, but many people, I'd dare saying most, actually player Master Duel, in which Maxx C is legal. If you get hit by Maxx C and you do not have an answer, you lose on the spot 9 out of 10 times. It usually doesn't even hurt to draw 2 Ash, as you drop one on Maxx C on your turn and have another Ash to drop next turn.
There is no measurement to how good Ash actually is. It's like an Ash vs Maxx C minigame unrelated to the actual game. She's just a mandatory 3-of every time.
Regardless if I run 58 or 5800 cards in my Deck, I can never escape the fact that I must have at least 1 Skull Servant in my opening hand every 2-6 games.
And you didn't even put Skull Servant in your deck!