Personally, I think it’s interesting to have a character like James, who is praised by everyone Harry meets be revealed to have been a bully to someone.
He and Sirius were bullies to a LOT of people, possibly half the school. That's usually what happens when a couple of Chad douchebags get together. They begin to bully weaker people they don't like.
I agree. I also think it's an unfair comparison with no satisfying answer. James has been dead since page 1, while Snape has had more than 15 years to mature and redeem himself or whatever. Even if we agreed that Snape is better than James, it still would be a middle aged man being morally superior to a 20 year old. On the other hand, if we compare them at the moment when both were alive, of course James is morally superior to the magical nazi. Either way the bar is very low.
Honestly that is the main problem with the debate imo, there's no good answer because one of them is dead and has minimal screen time, all we get is other people's views and opinions about him.
How exactly is some rich sadistic a-hole morally superior to some Nazi? At the end of the day, they were equally terrible people. He could have driven Snape, among many of the other students he bullied for PLEASURE, to suicide. And I honestly think he would NOT have given AF. He'd have probably celebrated in Snape's case.
@@roomofrequirements8324 Neither did James. He remained an arrogant 15-year-old bully until the day he died. And talking about favoritism, James was rewarded with head Boy status for being the biggest bullying, rule breaking, troublemaking douchebag in the entire school. He and his friend set a kid up to die and he was rewarded for it. I don't buy that it was all Sirius' idea for one minute. Those two hardly EVER did anything without the other knowing about it. James and Sirius planned to get rid of Snape, but James got cold feet at the last minute. That's how James knew Snape had gone into that tunnel. "He is a sad loser of a human being, obsessed with a certain redhead "- So, being born poor and a loner automatically made him a 'sad loser"? Is it ANY wonder that James Potter fans always manage to make excuses for a sadistic piece of shite excuse for a 'human being"? They're every bit as evil as him. And at least HE had the excuse of crushing on Lily since they were young, unlike some lusting d*ckhead that only noticed her AFTER she'd begun to look hot, THEN tried to force her to date him. He's far worse than Snape. Do ANY of you even know how the Dark Arts work? Have ANY of you seen people use Dark Arts? No? Then you have no clue as to what Snape was doing when you list DA as an excuse for James hating Snape. Get with the real-world people. Furthermore, according to the author, James and Sirius DROVE Snape into seeking out the Pureblood DE gangs for protection against those two thugs. Sure, he was dumb enough to think it would impress Lily, but he was weak, being bullied by two a-holes and he thought it would make him strong. Snape had EVERY excuse to have an awful outlook on life as a kid. What was James' excuse for being a lowlife creep? None, because he was a PoS BY NATUE. James Potter chose his own fate by being who he was and what he was. I have No sympathy for him. It's just too bad his child had to suffer for it. As for Lily, she wasn't stupid. She HAD to know James was just faking it and had never truly changed. She KNEW he was sneaking out of the house to have HIS fun. She made her own damn bed, like so many other shallow ditzy women by going for the hot Bad Boys who are douchebags by nature. Meanwhile James had NO heroic moments. He didn't rush to save Snape. He was saving his gang of bullies and thugs. How could he have "sacrificed his life for his family" when the idjut was going to die no matter what? And like a TRUE IDJUT, he didn't even think to pick up his weapon that was less than 5 feet away. James own stupidity and arrogance killed James.
I used to be more on the "Snape > James" Team, at least for their past versions, since I empathized far more with the impoverished half-blood loner over the rich, pureblooded jocks that go around in a group sexually harassing people unprovoked. I do think it's questionable that you call Snape an incel but not James, since I don't remember Snape ever wanting to harm or wish ill on Lily for not wanting to date him, while James outright said that he will continue to bully Snape unless Lily goes out with him.
Snape also joined a group filled with hate towards people like Lily. Would he have change his mind if Voldemort didn't go after Potters? Lily specifically? I don't think so.
@@lusinebaghyan8864 Maybe. It's a little hard to tell since his true morality is kept vague for so long. If I remember correctly, he joined out of peer pressure, not because he actually agreed with the DE. That dosen't change that Severus is a more interesting character, especially since the series dosen't have a lot of mroal nuance outside of him. Snape may have turned out to be not such a good person, but at least it was interesting to see what shaped him into such a person. James is both insufferable and bland.
@@auditect950 I don't remember him being pressured, I remember that he was awful to other mugleborns except for Lilly and was really into dark arts. He is interesting character, fun to read and try to understand, buy, yeah he is not a good person. For James I think it's about him and Lily being both Harry's parents and being dead. Harry has information about them from their friend and he see one or two memories the way we can have videos from people that passed away. He can't know everything about them, he is orphan and they died when he was too young to remember them. And from that little that we know we understand James as a spoiled kid, good friend, bully but also a kind and loving person. And like Snape he is interesting character to think about, what was he like when Sirius ran away from home to him, how was he with Remus who had low self-esteem because of his condition and so on.
@@NeggieKnight He did pants in British mean underwear and that's not what incel means stop using the words that you don't know how to use although I doubt that you ever will.
I see both sides of this debate. Yes, James was an arrogant jerk and a bully but at least he cared about his friends, grew up and mostly got his act together and joined the fight against Voldemort and made the heroic sacrifice. Meanwhile Snape was a victim of bullying (I can relate) but he held on to the grudge into adulthood and bullied children, also during his youth he obsessed over Lilly, socialized with racists and joined Voldemort's side and yet later on he became a double agent and contributed to Voldemort's final defeat. They are both flawed characters, Nuff said.
Snape was a bully as a teenager too. It's written in the books. He defended his friends using dark magic on others by saying it was just for fun. He also called all muggleborn who werent Lily mudbloods. He also created the spell Levicorpus, which James used on Snape in his memory. So, how did James know a spell Snape created unless Snape went around using it on other people.
@@Spawned-uy8ip stop saying he didn't grow up, because evidence says he DID. There's a reason why all the teacher of hogwarts thought James was worthy of being head boy after he matured. There's a reason why Lily decided to give him a chance since she loathed him a few years before that.
You should make a video on how UTTERLY TERRIBLE Officer Roger is! Take The season 2 episode captain hardrock, he is the main reason she is akumatized! Also in The episode Quilin he is also the reason and rufues to help un akumatize her! Real villian there if u ask me
When they were children it sounds like they were both messed up in different ways, James appears more aggressive in this rivalry but Snape was still problematic and racist. People did have reasons to say good things about James, so I see no reason to not give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't do that worse then we know of. He became a dicent young man and Snape the opposite, and later when Snape turned better - he bullied children, as an adult. Is this a real comparison people make?
I don't know, I personally still don't like James Potter. Snape was a horrible man and was racist as well as horrible to children. But, James was a bully, harassed Snape, and was just overall an asshole. All the characters who already liked him were biased opinions (the Marauders, other friends, etc.) Who overlooked him just being a terrible person, including Lilly. That doesn't justify what Snape did, but it's enough to classify James as a jerk and bad character. He's just protected cause he was a gryffindor, good-looking, and athletic so everyone just liked him automatically. Doesn't make him not as ass.
A jerk at the age of 15 James probably, mostly was. Was literally everyone biased about him? Sounds exaggerated. The marauders wewe willing to admit they were messed up, and Lilly caleed him out at the time. No reason to assume he didn't improve over time and died as a different person then the one you don't like. We didn't see enough of him, and we shouldn't, because he is just not that important. No reason to place him as a heroic model niether to hate him in my opinion.
@@adriannaa545Absolute rubbish. You know, comments like yours make me realize that perhaps it will be much better if there was a prequel centred around James Potter being the main/central character in a story about either the Potter family or the Marauders under James's POV. Maybe that way, it will silence haters like you for good.
If James had been such a "decent young man", he wouldn't have had people hating him to the point of taking it out on his kid. No, he was clearly a douchebag that never changed.
@@MavenWalsh Well let's see. The people who thought James Potter was a decent, brave, and selfless young man: - Harry - Hagrid - Dumbledore - Remus - Sirius - McGonagall - Flitwick - Lord Voldemort - Madame Rosmerta - Mad Eye - Kingsley Shacklebolt - Mr and Mrs Evans (Lily's parents) - Order of the Phoenix members The people who had a negative opinion of James Potter: - Snape - The Dursleys - Lucius Malfoy - Death Eaters I'm sorry but I believe the majority first group.
Someone remind me: I recall Harry questioning who his father was in the HBP after learning he was a bully. Did we ever see/hear how he became a better person?
Yes, when Harry confronted Sirius and Remus about James bullying Snape, they said that he had gotten in line by the last years at school except for frequent hex battles in empty hallways (considering Snape created Sectumsempra in his 6th year, it might have been for James), doing well enough to actually become Head Boy in Year 7 despite never being Prefect.
@@cobalion-aaditya457 Okay, thanks! Given that Remus had his own demons to deal with, I wonder if he was sympathetic towards the rest of the Marauders since they befriended him given his situation.
We hear the same people who had been pretending he had no flaws declare 'he totally cleaned up his act, trust us' but are never shown any objective evidence of it.
Oh yeah, something said from Sirius who keep calling him Snivellus and almost yeeted him by making him go watch Remus transforming as a wolf. Or Remus who keep acting in a defensive way ? Before book 5, they always called James something good, even the teachers kept preaching about him. Which to me sound like favoritism.
Who attacked other students and had a friend that tried to murder snape and then sexually harassed snape so no James may not be as bad but he’s still a piece of crap
@@dakotalange2858 I don't think its James fault for what Sirius did. He actually saved Snapes life even though he did it for Remus I don't know where you get the sexually harrased part. Honestly, James never removed Snakes underwear. James could not have lived with the trauma We have no proof James bullied anyone else. I think if had done, Hagrid, Dumbledore, McGonagall, and practically anyone would not have thought so highly of him
@@normpe2851 James announced loudly that he is going to remove Snape's underwear just before the memory ended. So I think it's safe to assume that it likely happened. Even though james didn't have any sexual intentions, showing of someone's private parts in public without their consent qualifies as sexual harassment. And there definitely are quotes in the books that indicate that James bullied others and was a schoolbully. His friends always referred to the PEOPLE he bullied, it was never just Snape.
When Snape's flashback talk with Lily in Deathly Hallows revealed that Snape was already practising to be a terrorist when the big James vs. Snape scene happened, I just went "Well James you're forgiven". If anyone sympathises with a terrorist-in-making, I feel sorry for their mental state.
Even if someone is a terrorist in the making, that's no excuse to publically sexually assault them. A crime is not justified by the quality of the victim.
but before that they still bullied him a lot for years, and if they didn't torment him so much, he might not have joined the death eathers since he would have a place to escape home or something like that, idk maybe he would have it anyways but I doubt it cuz lily would kick his ass
The dude was just a kid at the time. A kid with a ton of trauma and baggage. Yeah, you can sympathize with him whether you agree with his actions or not.
The defence of James only lies in the assumption that he truly did grow up and didn't simply just "not take cross the line of killing someone" (which you don't need to in order to be an awful person), and he's generally praised by fellow GRYFFINDORS. Believing that automatically means he should be given the benefit of the doubt is like believing the Tories that the Tories should be given the benefit of the doubt in terms of not running the country into the ground.
This is a hard one. Neither were saints, but both had their redeeming qualities too. I feel like one important thing to take into the equation here, is their life spans. One died at the age of 21, while the other became 37 or 38. Honestly, both died too soon, but the fact that Severus Snape got half a decade+ more time than James Potter, is often forgotten. For example, this is crucial as only he is able to show his side of their schooldays rivalry to Harry. Shoving shows a much bigger impression than simply telling. And it´s obvious that these two dudes had quite a lot of history. Rivalries aren´t just created over night. The bomb-chapter is titled "Snapes worst memory", so this was, the way I read it, a particularly cruel and humiliating experience for Severus (understandably so!) Not meaning to defend those acts, but it is important to put them into context. This was during the first wizarding war. We never see what Severus and his "Wannabe death eathers friends" did to the Marauders and other students. The creation of the spell "Sectumsempra" doesn´t send good signals... They were both results of their own upbringings; Severus had a less than optimal home-situation, while James was spoiled rotten. This shows in how they behaved, and who they surrounded themselves with. I will dare say that both of their parents´ failed them a bit, but in Severus´s case, it came from a more tragic and malicious place. Imperfect, complex characters is not the same as pure evil through and through (Except Voldemort). Let´s just appreciate every character individually, and not constantly setting them up against each other as in "is characher X better than character Y?". They both did the best they managed, and that´s what matters to me. (Except, maybe, Severus Snape abusing his power as a teacher to punish students unfairly. He´s obviously a potions genius, but could´ve used some training in pedagogy as a teacher).
So...I personally am more sympathetic to Snape, at least young Snape. Because, even if you know something is morally wrong, and horribly so. Like, young Snape was surrounded by death-eater wannabes, and surely the ideas of people you share a dorm, your meals, your classes and study time would absolutely have no influence on one's vocabulary and beliefs. Add that boarding school inherently encourage teenagers to become more pear-oriented, and if a lot of them are death-eater wannabes, that's just asking for a disaster. Not only that, but British boarding schools of the 60-70s had some plenty of cases of extreme bullying, which is more emotionally distressing than normal bullying, simply because of one, peer orientation, and lack of oportunity to take oneself away from the situation. In first year, the person who greats him at the ceremony is Lucius Malfoy ! What a great role model for an eleven year old boy ! (Note my sarcasm !) We don't know exactly what he was like as a kid, but geez, if his adult version is the result of a slow process and being raised with anti-muggle prejudice... Also, if the other pureblood families are anything like the house of Black, that means Snape would have spent his Hogwarts days surrounded by kids who thinks torture is normal. And Hogwarts being a boarding school, he's not in a position to run or avoid them on a regular basis. From what we know of his family life, Tobias Snape was abusive enough to make a witch cower in front of him. So resentment and being already prisky anything related to his father is also quite natural. Also, Minerva Macgonagall as an older colleague. This is the woman who thinks it's acceptable to send kids to a forest with giant man-eating spiders as punishment for breaking curfew. Also, when terrorist groups are ever honest to the people they recruit, right ? Also, the Snape we see in the books is a man, who's desire for acceptance once lead him to become a terrorist for a person who tortures his allies whenever he's pissed and lead to Lily's death. With this amount of trauma, being afraid of friendship and acceptance, and mostly it's destructive power, very well enters the field of the possible. And sure, it's a very defective and irresponsable way of thinking. Instead of thinking: "what Avery and co did was not acceptable and I should move away from that", he's "Like hell I'm gonna teach love and acceptance to kids by being nice to them !". There is also a possibility that he sees the very fact of seeking social approuval as something inherently defective, and something he must scold out of the kids unless he wants them physically tortured. So yeah, even if adult Snape is a horrible person, he might also have very skewed ideas of what is acceptable, and with the amount of trauma he has and the morality of his surroundings during his formative years. He's ill-fitted to teach, at least not without years of therapy and re-learning morality. Snape also seem to hate kids and takes it out of them. True jerk move. He bullies kids, and that's fully on him. But it'll be naive to think his background and surroundings don't have an effect on what he perceives to be acceptable behavior, or on anyone else for that matter, and it makes him especially not suitable for teaching. But again, Hogwarts doesn't really do normal recruitment of teachers and staff, and half of them don't have anything to do even near kids. But again, Dumbledore who hired Filch, who openly fantasizes about using medieval torture methods on kids and repeatedly begs him to re-allow it. If it was six of the best he was talking about, I'll just say he's old-fashioned, even kind of cute...But strapado ? Also, my skewed priority theory seems to be comfirmed in Half-Blood Prince because when Harry, in black out rage at his killing Dumbledore, tries to Crucio him, he doesn't react, but Levicorpus makes him loose self-control completely. Also, Snape didn't turn full terrorist because he didn't get the girl. He turned death eater because the girl in question was his only tenuous link to society outside of the death eater circle at the time. James had his own bag of issue. Because what we see of James Potter, he seems sure a bit spoiled, a bit mean spirited but he was taught good morals, and is a loyal friend. However, I don't think the Marauders are the most functional group of friends. Because spoiled brat, young aristocrat who thinks torture is normal, third class citizen and syncophan is not the kind of kids you want to put together. For what they are, they were highly functional, but... Okay, the kind of behavior we see in real-life from similar social groups to any of the Marauder boys are terrifying in their brutality. So, instead of James as just dumb jock bully, he became somehow worst. I talk about slamming genitals into lantern posts, trying to gouge eyes out and so on, some of them growing out of that, some of them not. He lied to Lily about his continuing rivalry with Snape...So yeah...Great start to a relationship. But he did die a hero's death protecting his wife and son, he was a loyal friend, to life and death. Just that this was a friendship that seemed to bring both the worst and the best in him. James was also one of the inventors of the Marauder's map, which is immensely creepy. Now, James isn't as prone to believe in logical fallacies. At least not as much as Snape does. For someone this intelligent, Snape's thought patterns we know of regarding social life and morality are skewed.
I always say "both sides are as bad as each other" they both have pros and cons to there characters. But if you spread it out like this I have to side with you. Snape is not a good person. He is also not a bad person. He had more living time since he made it to almost 40 and James just 21. I think it's would be more excusable if he really changed his personally after Lillys death, you know starting over. Most of us do dumb shit when we're teenagers, hang out with the wrong crowd. But I still believe that both sides are as bad as each other with the scales tiped more towards Snape
@@en4833 true and I'm not trying to excuse his actions. They come from a place of pain. Snape didn't have a good home life and not a good school experience. The only good thing was Lilly. He got so attached to her that he couldn't lose her. After her marriage to James and her death he lashed out the only way he knew how. James inadvertently played a huge role in his later actions because he couldn't get over his own bullying. And honestly Dumbledore knew Snape was bullying the kids and did nothing. But long story short yes Snape is worse in the long run, but in my opinion only because he lived longer than James. Otherwise they are both as bad as each other
@@lovelylife-tz4be I mean, he joined the wizard version of the Nazis, presumably joining in on the killing and torture of muggles and muggleborns. His friends also bullied students using actual Dark magic, which is worse than anything James ever did. james was only ever described as using hexes, not Dark magic or anything actually harmful. And since Snape defended them, we can kinda assume he was at the very least watching them do it, and maybe even participating. The only thing James really did was bully Snape during school. Which is terrible, but not worse than what Snape did, even as a teenager. I also reject the idea that James' bullying is what drove Snape to do the horrible things we did. We see that Snape already had anti muggle prejudie before going to Hogwarts, and liked hurting others he viewed as below him, as we see when he hurt Petunia. Snape is just an objectively worse person than James.
@@en4833 I agree. I'm not saying that I'm not. Maybe my opinion is just less strong. He hated muggles because of his dad who was abusive. And petunia for treating Lilly badly. James was just everything that that Snape wasn't. He had friends, was popular, he had loving parents,, he was rich and he got the girl of his dreams. In snapes mind it probably made sence. Everyone's actions make sence to them. He did the wrong things. But it's just like joining a gang that is taking it to far. He didn't know how far gone he was until it was to late. If anything I'm more mad at Dumbledore. He knew what was happening in school and later with the death eaters and didn't really do anything to stop it. I recommend cinema therapy they have a great episode on Snape if you're interested. He is definitely a bad guy. His actions are understandable to me but that doesn't make them right by any means
@@lovelylife-tz4be Yeah, I agree with you. Snape is a tragic character, and his actions are understandable. It's just that some people mistake understandable with excusable. Snape's past doesn't make him any less of a bad person, it just makes him more complex. A backstory is an explanation, not an excuse.
holy hell this is the earliest i've seen one of your videos! Love yout stuff Smartypants :D I also keep the opinion that James grew up and took responsibility for his mistakes, Snape, didn't really seem to, and made life hell for multiple other people in the series, including but not limited to Neville. If it turned out that Neville was the chosen one, Snape wouldn't have done anything to save them, the only reason he did was because of his love for Lily. Yes, James was a dickhead in school, but so was Snape. Both jackasses were as bad as the other, but one grew up, the other didn't really. But these are just my thoughts :)
Yes, James was a bully when he was a teenager, but he stopped later & he was also brave, incredibly loyal and a great friend, father & husband, who supported his friend Remus when most people would’ve abandoned him & even learnt the incredibly complex animagus-spell for him. He also sacrificed his live for his wife & son. Snape on the other hand was an immature man-child, who as a teenager sympathized with Voldemort & the death eaters (you know: the HP-equivalent of the nazis), invented cruel spells as a teen, called his best friend a slur, bullied other kids & when he became an adult, he became a nazi-wizard. He only stopped, because the woman he was obsessed with was targeted. He didn’t care about the other victims. He didn’t even care about Lily’s husband & baby! He just wanted to safe Lily in the beginning. He also bullied his students, you know: Children! He was a grown man, a teacher, an authority figure, who bullied every single none-Slytherin-student. He was so unfair & favoured his own house so much, that he is the reason that Slytherin won the house-cup every year. He bullied Harry, an innocent child, just because he happened to look like his father & wasn’t Snapes son. He bullied Neville so much, that he became his WORST FEAR! Neville’s parents were tortured to insanity & jet his wort fear was his teacher, who he still bravely faced ever week. And why? Just because Neville wasn’t the kid from the prophesy. He threatened to poison Nevills pet (wich he got because as a proof that he had magic, something important to him) & when Treavor didn’t die, he punished Gryffindor by taking points from them. He made sure that Remus lost the only job he ever had & that he would never have a job again, just because his childhood bully didn’t get kissed by a dementor (a fate worse then death.) He also knows exactly what it’s like to be bullied & still told Hermione „I see no difference“ when her teeth grew abnormally large. Honestly: He’s the worst. The absolute worst!
If I'm being honest...neither. James was a relentless bully just for the kicks. and snape was no different, he bullied a CHILD for petty revenge 🤦🏽♀️. in conclusion I vote for Lily lol.
I always felt like I wouldn't have liked James or Severus. They both seemed like misogynistic a**hole bullies to me who I would have avoided. James was a thick headed jock and Severus was a jealous incel. And I despise people who act like either of those. I still cherish my childhood memories of my mom reading the books with us, and when I got older I had the books in my bedroom when I didn't have good friends to hang out with or I was too sick to go play. And the movies were cinematic masterpieces, which inspired my childhood self and led me to pursue college to make movies myself. But that's about it. F**k Joker Rowling. In hindsight none of the story makes any sense or ties together when you start to analyze it, and her bigotry clearly shows in her writing. But I will always love the movies because they took a pile of shit that was sprayed in perfume and grew beautiful flowers out of it 🤣😂 Full respect for the movie directors, actors, special effects artists, and everyone else who worked on the movies 💜💙💚
Something about James Potter growing up all adored and loved but still choosing to bully others for fun makes me dislike him. His bullying is also repulsive like choking Snape on soap and threatening sexual harassment etc all because of ‘boredom’. And JKR didn’t bother giving him proper growth. “Deflated his head a bit” is not convincing enough. We weee simply expected to accept that he changed.
He didn't bully other for fun, he hexed. That's not automatical bully. The most students hexing each other. That doesn't mean Hogwarts is full of bullies... Sexual harassment? Like force to shown other one pants? Like, the literally function of the Levicorpus?
I'm not even in the Harry Potter fandom (and don't particularly care for it) and I've seen too many arguments about this topic, to the point where before I watched the latter movies, I thought this whole thing was a bigger part of the story than what it was. That's how vicious and vocal fans got about it. It makes me wish the story had been centered on those two in their school days rather than the chosen-one-boy-wizard vs. the Legion of Doom. I think they're both flawed people in different ways but because James procreated and Snape didn't, there's going to always be a bias for a father giving his life for his son who is the main character than a man devoting his life to being an undercover agent. There's really no comparison, though, and having a war between the two is silly since one died before the series began and the other only dies near the end. They both suck. Deal with it.
ik you aren't part of this fandom and probably don't care for this but the movies left out a lot of important parts from the books. Like how Snape was as much of a bully as James was to other people, he called all muggleborns who weren't Lily mudbloods and defended his friends bullying using dark magic as just for fun. He also supported Voldemort from a young age despite his bff being a muggleborn herself. And in the books, we get a scene where Harry is told that James matured and grew up to be a good person, and that he had become so much better that Lily gave him a chance in the seventh year and he was also chosen to be Head Boy. Also, in the movied Snape seemed like a strict teacher but in the books he was an outright bully. He bullied Hermione on her looks (when she was hexed and her entire face was messep by Draco, he looked at her and told her he saw no difference at all). He bullied Neville to the point where he became his greatest fear (it's shown by a monster that turns into a persons greatest fear). And it was compared to a woman who tortured Neville's parents to insanity (to the point they were permanantly hospitalised, had no previous memort and could barely talk) was still alive. He threatened to kill Neville's pet and was overall really mean to everyone. In the books, he's also willing to let Harry and James die to protect Lily, when he knew the loss of her husband and child would kill her. He was also the one who told Voldemort of the prophecy basically giving up a childs life. And it's clear that if Lily's life wasn't in danger he would have never switched sides. James on the other hand, was a pureblood and quite respected. He had absolutely no reason to participate in the war and could have been safe away from him. yet, he chose to join a group to protect people at 18, risking his life every single day till the day he died. He also saved Snape's life, risking his own life from a werewolf back at school. And when James was in hogwarts, he found out one of his best friends was a werewolf (who were hates, frowned upon and considered dangerous). Instead of shunning him, he not only accepted him but became an animagus, which is basically when a human can turn into an animal along with Sirius and Peter even though it was an extremely dangerous thing to do and illegal. He did it just so that Remus wasn't alone in pain during the full moons.
Honestly, it always seemed weird why snape made that spell in the first place? A spell that will make you hang off leg upside down in the air. All wizards wear robes, a person who's making a spell like that has to know that the subject of the spell will definitely be exposed if it's used on them. (And the way the death eaters hung that poor women in the air in book 4 definitely doesn't do him any favours because it makes me thing what if he made that spell to give it to the death eaters..) James was definitely a c**t but honestly i wanna hear the whole story..why did lily smile seeing the way snape was being treated (i know they weren't on good terms but still, he was her best friend)..was she as shallow as people display her to be..did what james do was his normal bullying ways or some sort of revenge on snape, was james as bad as he seemed in the scene or better or maybe he was worse? Maybe he didn't fix his act, maybe he only hid it better for lily? I mean they explained it.. I don't remember the exact lines but it sounded weird and made it feel like maybe james might have not grown up. Man, i really need a backstory, honestly, a marauders story is a way better idea than readapting harry potter again.
Lily didn't smiled. Her mouth only twitched for a tiny moment. SWM was very soon after Snape tried to out Lupin after he followed him since month and must be rescued. Even after that Snape still tried to told Lily about Lupins condition. And we read in the books that Snape never missed a chance to cursed James and that James hexed back. Lily asked Snape why he was so obsessed about the marauders and he never mentioned it that he only tried to defend himself because they bullied him so much. He was jealous. But you are right. We definitely need s fair background story.
Snape at that point was already calling muggleborns mudbloods, hanging out with Death Eater wannabes, expressing genuine interest in joining the Death Eaters himself, and participating in, or at least watching his friends use actual Dark magic against other classmates to bully them. Snape at this point was already a piece of shit. Lily and Snape weren't on the best of terms at this point, to put it lightly, and definitely weren't still best friends. Lily also didn't smile. Her mouth twitched slightly.
No, yes, you both are right, lily didn't smile, her mouth only twitched..don't take me wrong, I'm not trying to imply that she was bad or something..I just find it interesting. My point is there was word choice made that brought about a certain dimension to Lily's formerly simpler character. Coz the intention of saying Lily's mouth twitched in the end is that some part of her found it a bit funny which conflicted with her formerly pure and motherly image or atleast that's what I thought of her. So what brought about that reaction? I know their friendship was pretty strained at that point, and lily certainly knew that Snape was hanging out with death eaters and maybe she even knew about the truth of the Lupin incident..and that's what's interesting coz what's the story there? I only said things like maybe this means lily was shallow or James was more sinister because these are very common alternative conclusions that are made from those scenes by a lot of hp fans and every theory makes the scene all the more intriguing for me. It's just fun to think about. I don't really have any preformed opinions on these characters except maybe peter pettigrew.
1. snape doesn't have anti-muggle prejudice, Petunia was bullying her sister and insulting Snape so he fought back against her. snape's "racism" is an alleged unsupported rumor that the Marauders fans spread. he told Lily that it didn't make any difference that she was a muggle-born when they were kids and when he grew up he started to hang out with Slytherins to gain power and to protect himself from his bullies. naturally, he would start to use the "m" word along with them. 2. snape didn't say anything when James attacked him and decided to take his underwear off he was minding his own business and James got bored. so he decided to bully him as usual. From what we have seen this happens all the time to Snape. he called Lily the M-word because of her hypocrisy, she had a conversation with him earlier and told him that his friends are evil and that James and his friends are not that bad after all that they did to him. snape was really angry at her and he still apologised. 3. James Potter was severely narcissistic and if you can't understand why he is popular and everyone likes him, then you don't understand how narcissism works. narcissists love attention and they even do good things to gain it, they treat their surroundings well and take care of them. but at the same time, they are capable of great harm to get what they want and love to choose targets. in James's case that was snape. he literally bullied Snape because he and Lily were friends.
James didn't get the girl so he became a better person and got the girl. Snvillus didn't get the girl so he called her a slur then joined wizard Hitler and bullied kids while also being a major factor in their death. Was James a dumb 15year old YES but he C H A N G E D Snape seems good sure but he was fvcking obsessed with Lily and bullied her child because he remins him of a guy he didn't like in high school James was a good person with good morals let me just point out he let Sirius stay with him for year's after running away knowing full well if the Black family wanted to they could rip him to shreads, HE JOINS THE WAR AND DIED FOR IT Meanwhile Snape joined the psychopath who was killing muggleborns When he goes to Dumbledore he says protect Lily Only when Dumbledore says he is disgusted by him he says fine protect them all which is only why he helped Harry's side Because he was obsessed with Lily so he sold himself off to Dumbledore Snape literally is shown saying his life goal is to be a death eater HE DOES NOT HAVE A PURE HEART Imagine if the roles were reversed James would not have ever firstly joined the death eaters and secondly would have said protect them all, why? BECAUSE HE KNEW (imaging the roles are reversed) THAT LILY WAS HAPPY AND WOULDN'T WANT TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM HER Meanwhile Snape willing joined Voldemort, it wasn't like he was forced, not like Regulus who didn't have any other options He was half-blood he would have had a choice He could have fought for the right side but let's be honest part of the reason he would never have joined the order if Lily didn't die was because he didn't want to work with the marauders. Also let's not forget that he told everyone that Remus was a werewolf, leaving him without a job and with low chances of getting another. Snape wasn't an innocent 15 year old it just seems that way because we are seeing the events THROUGH HIS MEMORIES. Memories aren't an accurate source of events, there will always be some certain bias in them and you won't remember things perfectly, there would also likely be unintentional blindness at some point. Clearly Snape wasn't innocent as the marauders while being as$holes weren't people with bad morals and if Snape was truly innocent would have likely stopped. Also they first thing Snape says to James is insulting Gryffindor, aka. the house most of his family has been in for decades. Snape got left with a nickname, imagine if that had been said to someone like Malfoy, he would have ripped him to shreads, honestly James was in the right to be p!ssed. In the end they were both sh!t teens but one changed and became a better person and one joined wizard hitler Edit: Also please look at the books, people like the actor not the character presented in the books. The same thing happens with Malfoy (while I still love him) he isn't meant to be a good person, with a tragic backstory, sh!t parents, forced into war. He is meant to be a rich, arrogant, spoiled as$hole and a racist who willingly joins Voldemort. But the fact he is played by Tom Felton means that the actor and character get mixed up slightly making him a better person. But even then Draco was a child, he was 16-17, Snape was definitely over 17 when he willing joins Voldemort, he wasn't pure blood meaning firstly he likely wouldn't have had the choice to join earlier (Reg, Evan, Barty to some extent, ect.) meaning he was at least 17 but considering James and Lily we're 21 when they died he could have joined later meaning he was old enough to know. Also an extension on the pure blood part this also means there was no or less external pressure to join Voldemort. Most pure bloods had the option death eater or die but Snape was half-blood meaning that he likely wasn't given life or death choices. Edit number 2: Also Shapes worst memory is I their fifth year, this could likely be after Snape threatened to tell the whole school about Remus' condition. While Sirius did an absolute d!ck move Snape shouldn't be getting revenge on Moons for that and remember Prongs talks to Moony before doing it, not Padfoot meaning this could have been a sort of 'Do not hurt my friends you prick' move but we don't really get context so honestly this is just mostly a theory. Edit 3: Honestly this was probably the perfect video to sum everything up, James was an idiot, but Snape started the war and tried to get people killed and was friends with people who either r@ped or tortured girls and knew what he was doing, bullied children and never gave remorse. #clubhatesnapeanddumbledore
Not taking sides here, I just would say; The difference from your wiev might come from the fact tham with James we get a "yeah, yeah, he was a good guy" but ending his story kinda on a bad note, while in Snape's chase is's "yeah, yeah, he was a bad guy" but ending his story on good thinsgs... so, we kinda get the James corruption and Snape redemption arch more focusd on...
I have seen lots of Snily ships but I prefer the canon James and Lily ship. At least the former is better Snape and Harry (Snarry) crack shipping I am not joking that actually exists. Ewwwwww
If we got to know more about James . I think that we could rate him better. I all so think that Harry's Mother should have married someone not from Hogworts because I think that Hogworts is a horrible School.
My thing is i saw movie Snape before book Snape. So book Snape sucks like I would be on the side of James. But in movie Snape I feel like I'm fine with both like they both were kids now if it was Sirius vs Snape then I feel bad for Snape because Sirius did go overboard. While James and Remus grew past the past. Sure movie Sirius also is personally in my opinion more fatherly towards Harry but we still see he is childish with his interactions with Snape. Either way both James and Snape were kids bullys and just grew out of it as they got older some more petty and childish then others in Book Snapes case and Sirius case towards Snape.
I think they're both terrible, but James was less so. Doesn't mean I'd be part of his team in this debate. Being a bully itself is horrible. And then he matured and bettered himself, because he realized his mistakes and became the member of the order. Snape was part of the death eaters, created horrible spells as a TEENAGER and only turned sides cus of Lily, as you mentioned. The fact that his group was waging war and murd3ring wizards wasn't enough for him to turn a leaf. Even though James was a horrible bully which i too would have a hard time forgiving, he wasn't evil.
Saying they are both "terrible" is a huge leap. James WAS bad and Snape IS terrible you can't just label two different people as the exact same thing there is a different between bad Terrible and awful
Dang. You make a good point. James did end up being a better person. But Snape never stalked Lily. Therapists React did a long video on whether or not Snape's love was toxic and ultimately they said it wasn't. They say the notebook and Edward x Bella were toxic in their other vids but not Snilly.
Everyone’s gonna think I’m copping out but I choose neither. I choose Harry’s side. James was arrogant both a teenager when he bullied Snape and as an adult when he left his Wand on the coach when a known murdere was hunting his family.Snape was selfish, a borderline incel, and for no reason a terrible teacher.
Both are characters who did a lot of good for the Wizarding World and yet who went out of their way to make others miserable for basically no reason. I don’t think you can really can either of them good people due to this, as they both clearly showed that they could be malicious towards innocents without any sign of remorse, and both showed serious signs of hypocrisy and arrogance. Even so, from what we’ve heard at least, James is arguably more moral than Snape is. While James may have bullied kids at school, he eventually fought for the Order of the Phoenix and gave up his life for the cause. Snape, on the other hand, not only became a Death Eater supporting genocide, but only flipped due to the death of one woman and spent the rest of his life maliciously bullying children while he was an adult. James clearly has the high ground. Sirius, on the other hand…I think you can argue that he’s about as good as Snape. He seemed to always put Peter down when they are at school (insulting him casually), he nearly got Remus executed because he wanted to pull a prank on Snape, he nearly killed Snape over a schoolyard grudge and expressed no remorse even years later as an adult, and he didn’t support Harry the way he should have later simply because Harry was too “lame” for him (he coldly cuts Harry off one time in GoF because Harry doesn’t want Sirius risking getting caught by the Ministry, even as Harry desperately needs advice for the murder plot against him and the deadly Triwizard Tournament). Overall, Sirius Black is about as close of a gray character to Snape as you’ll find, without James’ redeemed qualities of being vouched for by Hagrid or having caught Lily’s eye or actually trying to save Snape’s life.
Both were terrible people at their time but I choose Snape because his character is very interesting. not white nor black is all grey. He is as he is. He didn't need excuses to make him look as a saint not like James stans do with their fave lmao
Honestly they're both pretty garbage. Snape was an incel and James was a bully, we as the readers know that James changes but we never really see it we're just told and considering how he treated Snape and how pushy he was with Lily at the time, it's a pretty far leap. Snape is also just terrible, pining after a girl who isn't interested whilst calling her slurs and joining a terrorist group against her kind then bullying children because he's miserable. That whole part of the book is difficult to read, especially from Harry's perspective; his betrayal of his father's memory along with him relating to Snape being a victim of bullying as well. At least James became better by working against Voldemort and against the whole 'blood purity' thing plus he goes out his way to rescue Snape despite hating him, making him better in my eyes.
How pushy ? The guy never was pushy with her, she was her childhood friend !! James was the one pushy with her, he even stated that he will keep pining on her until she leaves Snape. James had his friends group while Snape only had Lily. It's also clear from what he heard from the teachers, James had favoritism. What do you expect, from a guy alone, abused, bullied for being himself or being around his friend from another group will do ? Because no one understand him, the girl who has been his friend his all life probably down play his suffering because she starts having a crush on the jock who bullied him pretty much all of the time. Result, he goes with the only other people he can spend his time and see on a daily basis with : other slytherin who for most are pure blood that follow Voldemort. Tries to cut ties with her the most extreme way so that way there is no turn back.
I would love to see the proves for all that claims. Because. There aren't someone. None of that standing in the books. Not the part with lily and James, not that they bullied him regularly. He had friends long before SWM, he defense dark magic attacks against other students, he was part of magic nazi gang, he literally admitted that he followed them over a longer time and that he called every muggelborn rascial slurs. There isn't a single prove that he was that tiny innocent little wallflower. He created dark magic curses and made it to his speciality. He created a spell to show other students underwear. Sorry
But i think. Why no one its talking about lily I mean i understand that you fell ofended by being called mudblood by for chilhood friend but. Even so in the situation. Lily could use her brain to understand. The intentions of snape. And later she forgets everyrhing. James. Has done. And enter a couple. And like 7 years later you think its better to. Fix the things Man. I think lily also was a little garbage
Snape was literally friends with a group of wannabe terrorists who thought people like her should die, and he expressed these same views about anyone but her. Let's not blame Lily for cutting off the friendship when she realized he'd never ditch this life, not even for her.
@@yawninglion1677 yeah thas also true but i think lily should do the same for james i mean literally. James was the same for 7 years until lily was pregnant and the book is telling me that lily let slide : Allowing a poorly-controlled transformed werewolf to endanger citizens, including children. This is almost certainly a crime in the literal sense. 2: Being an unregistered Animagus. This is definitely a crime, because Hermione was able to blackmail Rita by threatening to reveal it. 3: Being a “relentless bully” to Severus, including significant physical assault and minor sexual assault. 4: Enabling Sirius’s dangerous mania. It’s greatly to James’s credit that he prevented Sirius from killing Severus - but then he encouraged him to go on persecuting him, which was hugely irresponsible (although perhaps not amazingly so at 16). 5: Collaborating in inventing a surveillance device which enabled him and his friends to spy on hundreds of people, most of them children. They know who’s in the lavatory, who’s in the shower with someone else - it’s a massive and very creepy invasion of privacy. 6: Making a flaming nuisance of himself to all and sundry by hexing people at random. 7: Being dishonest in office by continue to prosecute a secret hex war I mean if lily take a whole decade to "fix the garbage person james was i am only thinking she "start changing him when she got pregnant"
@@beldafigueroa6799Absolute rubbish. You know, comments like yours make me realize that perhaps it will be much better if there was a prequel centred around James Potter being the main/central character in a story about either the Potter family or the Marauders under James's POV. Maybe that way, it will silence haters like you for good.
@@paulyb7267 look i try to being honest i honestly i dont defend both. But if you call me a hater for giving my opinion. Maybe you have the problem but i am asking how i am being a hater
@@paulyb7267 because if you are calling me a hater because i am calling. Out james actions. So maybe calling out severus. Will be. Doing something m. He was bullyng neville because in his though he should die that day not lilie he was part of some terrorist. Emo group he was killing people and so he was a racist that. Dint like people. Like muggles and Psychological abuse Assault Stalking Consensual homicide (unwillingly) Aiding and abetting Forgery
The same people who say 'oh, well, James got better!' are the same people who had spent the series acting like he had no flaws to begin with. So far as I am concerned we don't really have any reliable narrators to give us a clear picture since both his friends and his enemy are obviously biased as hell. But I believe I have worked out two things, based on things that both sides seem to agree on. 1# He wasn't a magic Nazi 2# At no point did he ever seem to make any attempt to reach out to his bullying victims and try to make things right with them. Because if he had we would have no doubt heard his supporters say 'he even tried to bury the hatchet but Snape refused!' and Snape would have made snide remarks about him having made some 'insincere attempt at apologizing'. So he maybe potentially stopped hurting other people for his own amusement but he never took any responsibility for the damage he had already done to people (likely with the excuse that most of them were terrible people and so didn't deserve an apology because who apologizes to bad guys?). Meanwhile, Snape was a magical Nazi and he as a grown adult used his position of authority to bully children so that makes him a worse person even if James was a dick.
I have only seen the movies but it seems Snape is the only Harry Potter Character to teach Harry HOW Harry’s parents were. Every other Harry Potter character only talks about WHO and WHAT James and Lily were- not HOW they were like. Harry thought his parents were martyrs who died for a great cause for Wizards but Snape taught Harry they were just murder victims of Voldemort. Snape was tough on Harry because he thought Harry was abusing his privilege as “the boy who lived” similar to James abusing his privilege.
I do think that james was in the end even a good person. Disclaimer: He was a jerk in his hogwarts days. He was a serious bully, not just to snape, but a lot of people, even though mostly snape, yes. But it was stated that he and i belive sirius as well were also going after other students, even if not as severely as after snape. But i do believe that James genuinely matured a great deal and became a good person during his last years at hogwarts and proof lies within the fact that lily eventually fell in love with him. Lily, was always described as the most kind person people knew, whenever they talked abt her, she did not bully, she was not arrogant, whatsoever. She was a textbook angel in form of a human. Do you really think that someone like that would fall in love so deeply in love with a former bully, if he did not genuinely gone out of his way to make his wrongs right and apologized and made up for the things he had done in the past? I honestely do not think so. So the only thing that people have going for them who really think that james also was a jerk during his days with lily is that, they themselves never saw that, which is kinda weird in a ficitonal story, like, how do you know anything else the AUTHOR tells you is true? Is Voldemort actually the hero? Do Mudbloods actually try to overthrow wizardkind? I mean we never got specifically shown that isn't like that were we? hmmm
Actually it's only described that James hexed other people. Like a lot of students do. That's didn't mean he bullied other one. And that the marauders especially and regularly bullied him is just fanon. It's literally nowhere standing in any book.
First of all, how exactly was Snape a "loser" when he'd managed to work his way into Voldemort's inner circle? If by having a bad personality, you mean he was a loser, then that also applies to James Potter. James (the grapist) Potter, who had to blackmail girls into dating him, while torturing their best friends at the same time. Such a nice guy. He didn't go into those tunnels to save Snape. He was saving his gang of vicious thugs. He would have gladly sit by and watched Snape die a horrible death if he could have kept his friends out of trouble. They relentlessly bullied Sanpe. Those were the author's words. They ultimately drove him into joining the local gang. But which was better? Neither of them was better. James would have bullied Slytherin students if he'd become a teacher. They were both awful people.
@@paulyb7267 Total BS head canon. Rowling never said James taught Peter jack. For all we know Peter taught them. When will the James Potter stans finally pull their heads out of his keyster?
@@MavenWalsh It is literally stated in the books that Peter needed all the help to become an animagus and he became one much later than James and Sirius.
@@MavenWalsh You know what your problem is: you HATE how successful James is and how he always comes out as the top dog, so you use whatever flaws he has to downplay his success and to bring him down as a character. It's like Novak Djokovic in tennis: the fans will always root for his opponents and will hate it every time he wins.
We all got to take a small step back here. James may had done few jerkish things while he was young but honestly haven't we all done things that we're not proud of? Life is about growing from your mistakes. James still was loyal to his family and friends and when his world was threatened by a extremely dangerous wizard he did stepped up to try to save his world and others. No doubt that the war helped him see the world on a much more spiritual way. We have to understand that nobody (besides Snape) hold his childhood mistakes against him. He (and many others) grew up. He can't be defined as a person over one period of his life. It's like what Dumbledore and Sirius both said...everybody have good and bad in them and are capable of changing. We have to remember that much of the negativity of James comes from Snape who is someone who is not only holding a childhood grudge but refuses to acknowledges and see that James did do some good in his life. We have to remember that despite Snape having a deep fondness for Lilly, he was the one who wasn't willingly to changes for her nor was he willingly to see his own faults between him and James' rivalry. The situation isn't as black and white as the films make it out to be. We see that Harry does learn to accept that his father was human and regained enough respect for him that he named one of his sons after him.
James was horrible as a kid, but good as an adult. Snape was good as a kid, but horrible as an adult. Who do you hold responsible more, kids or adults?
James bullies a guy and other slytherins that joined the slytherin/voldemort gang in Hogwarts who went around cursing and torturing other students, and later fights against Voldemort, what a monster. Snape becomes a spy after his crush(he was perfectly fine with everything Voldemort did before that) was killed but continues bullying children as an adult and abuses his position of authority, what a hero.
Most of the negative information we get about James is from the memories of someone who was deeply resentful and jealous towards him. On top of that, it's essentially cherry-picked, and we don't know if there's further context. Memories aren't always truth, especially when emotionally charged. They can hyperfocus on specific things and are interpretations from the person who has them. I say this as someone who was an outcast, as someone who was bullied a lot in school. James was the better person. It's not even a contest. Everything Snape did was motivated by his own self-centeredness. He didn't care about Lily as a person, he cared about the function she could fill in his life. It was always about him, his desire for her. Even in the end. He wasn't driven by love but by desire. If Harry hadn't had his mother's eyes, do you think Snape would have done even half of the things he did to "save" Harry? Is Snape a much better written character than James, absolutely! But that doesn't mean he deserves any sort of redemption. He's basically torturing himself out of some self-imposed righteousness without taking any ownership of the multitude of things he has done wrong.
both James and Severus are great wizards in their own right but also good people. they both have their sins are are not perfect but i see this as a Goku and Vegeta both have raw talent but in certain aspects. James had a natural ability like Goku and Snape was the hard worker like Vegeta. just my opinion. i think Snape ended up the better wizard cause he got to grow older (and was trained personally by both Voldemort and Dumbledore) could snape of beaten James when he was younger? sure but he was always jumped by James and his friends.
One do have to remember the wizard world was in a war. It was so bad that Hagrid himself even said that it was very dark times and that everybody was so scared that even after the war ended they still refuses to use the dark wizard's name. Wars changes people. James had to see allies and friends getting killed right in front of him. You have to remember that he just became a father for a year and he find out that the dark wizard was going to go after his son. The man who let nobody lives when he decided to kill them. James had to be protective of his family. This wasn't about himself. He was willingly to hide in order to protect his wife and son. Then when he came, he tried his best to protect them. You have to remember that he lost his parents young due to them being old when they had him. No doubt that he wishes that they were still around and that they could had met their grandson. You have to remember that for all of his flaws he was still friends with both a werewolf and someone who comes from a pure-blood extremist family background. He didn't judges Remus and Sirius which is why both are so loyal to him even after his death. James went through lot as a young adult so how can you say that he didn't changes? Also, some people don't get to burry the hacket but while it would been nice to do so, does that really mean that you changes or not? Some people will never get along no matter what. Also, even if he did, would Snape even accepts it? Would Snape even admit his own wrong doing in the feud? You can't put all the blame on James because Snape played a role in this too. Also, Snape became a death eater during their young adulthood so why on earth would James want to say "I'm sorry" to him?
honestly, yeah. james is much better than snape morally. though, i still fucking hate james so so much. he frustrates me. i stand by the fact that fanon snape is so much better, not the fangirl bullshit, but the sevitus/severitus. petty and sarcastic snape>>>abusive, immature snape. snape was clearly meant a tragic character, but the bad outweighs the good in him. also who the fuck would show off someone elses panties in front of a crowd of people as a prank, i do not trust james. even if snape wasn't stripped nude, it's still fucked. (this is not to disagree with anything here)
Am I the only one who thinks Snape wouldn’t have any reason to join the Death Eaters if he got therapy before his Hogwarts age… and never put a single foot into Hogwarts in the first place? (Even though he might have problems with his magic without the necessary education to control it 🫠 Eh… we never get everything)
I would root for movie snape every time (except for when he bullies students) because the writers and alan rickman made him more nuanced and showed he had a heart when he protected the trio as much as he could. I wish we saw James more in the movies. But still loved him through how his loved ones saw him so I rooted for him too. I do love and root for James in the books. He had one bad moment and that is all we see in the movies. He did try to be better and he was a great friend. Book Snape was awful with no redemption in between.
I’m on James’s side, James was a dick at 15, but he grew up and matured into a good man, Snape remained a pathetic manchild until his dying day, James fought against wizard Nazis, Snape only switched sides because Lily was in danger, had Voldemort went after the Longbottom’s, Snape would have remained a death eater.
I don't side with either James 1st or Severus. Neither character were very good people. At least James do learn what his morals needs to be but, Severus just won't leave well enough alone. For Lilly Evans, her feelings for Snape was just chemistry for the most part and it was not until after Snape called her a "Mudblood" (He never really meant to call her that, she just never gave him the chance to explain), she realized that her infatuation with Snape was nothing more than just a phase, but for Snape he continues to confuse his obsession with the meaning of the word "LOVE", and now the difference between James' Stag Patronus and Snape's Deer Patronus makes sense. James Potter's Stag Patronus doesn't mean it reflects his Animagus form, that is sort of an after thought of a coincidence, what it really represents is his attraction to Lilly(Kind of like, how a Buck falls in Love with a Doe); and the Real reason Snape's Patronus is a Doe, just like Lilly's is because it is not merely the love he has for her, it actually resembles his obsession for Lilly. Remarking Harry's eyes is as close to an apology he'd ever make to Harry, sometimes people just can't express things with either their words or their eyes as good as others could.
James was an asshole as a teenager, but I truly don’t understand people who act as if Snape was an innocent victim. There’s heavy textual evidence that he was just as bad. Let’s review: 1. Snape was a bigot well before he ever met James. He insulted Petunia for being a Muggle and dismissed Lily when she was hurt over her sister hating her because, in his words, “she’s only a Muggle.” 2. Snape was the one who actually started the rivalry between him and James. James made a comment about how he wouldn’t want to be in Slytherin, and Snape made it personal by calling James a dumb jock. 3. Snape was an emotionally abusive and jealous friend to Lily. When Lily tried to express concern over Snape associating with Death Eaters, Snape refused to listen and instead went on a spiel about how horrible the Marauders were. 4. Now, onto the part about Sirius trying to “murder” Snape-I’ll agree that telling Snape how to get past the Willow was wrong. However, that’s all he did, and it hardly qualifies as a murder attempt because there’s evidence that Snape already knew or at least heavily suspected that Lupin was a werewolf. Lily herself even accuses Snape of being obsessed with where Lupin goes every month. The most likely scenario is that Sirius goaded Snape into doing something stupid and Snape took the bait because he saw a chance to expose a classmate’s deeply personal medical condition. And even if we assume that Snape genuinely didn’t know, at the end of the day, he still chose to follow the word of a known enemy who told him to…poke a tree that literally tries to bludgeon anyone who gets close to it because if he could do it, there would be a great big secret on the other side for him to discover. 5. Finally, James “sexually assaulting” Snape. In case anyone needs a reminder, he “assaulted” him using a spell that Snape invented. Now, I’m sure we can all agree that Snape wouldn’t have shared his spells with James, so how do you suppose James learned it? The logical explanation is that he’d seen Snape use it before, on other students and maybe on James himself too, which leads you to wonder how many students Snape sexually assaulted. Sounds to me like a classic case of “what goes around comes around”.
Personally, I think it’s interesting to have a character like James, who is praised by everyone Harry meets be revealed to have been a bully to someone.
He and Sirius were bullies to a LOT of people, possibly half the school. That's usually what happens when a couple of Chad douchebags get together. They begin to bully weaker people they don't like.
@@roomofrequirements8324 Draco was definitely a bully too, what are you talking about?
I agree. I also think it's an unfair comparison with no satisfying answer. James has been dead since page 1, while Snape has had more than 15 years to mature and redeem himself or whatever. Even if we agreed that Snape is better than James, it still would be a middle aged man being morally superior to a 20 year old. On the other hand, if we compare them at the moment when both were alive, of course James is morally superior to the magical nazi. Either way the bar is very low.
Honestly that is the main problem with the debate imo, there's no good answer because one of them is dead and has minimal screen time, all we get is other people's views and opinions about him.
Comparing fictional characters to nazi is just f*cking stupid when even people who have gone through it told y'all to stop.
How exactly is some rich sadistic a-hole morally superior to some Nazi? At the end of the day, they were equally terrible people. He could have driven Snape, among many of the other students he bullied for PLEASURE, to suicide. And I honestly think he would NOT have given AF. He'd have probably celebrated in Snape's case.
@@roomofrequirements8324 Neither did James. He remained an arrogant 15-year-old bully until the day he died. And talking about favoritism, James was rewarded with head Boy status for being the biggest bullying, rule breaking, troublemaking douchebag in the entire school. He and his friend set a kid up to die and he was rewarded for it. I don't buy that it was all Sirius' idea for one minute. Those two hardly EVER did anything without the other knowing about it. James and Sirius planned to get rid of Snape, but James got cold feet at the last minute. That's how James knew Snape had gone into that tunnel.
"He is a sad loser of a human being, obsessed with a certain redhead "- So, being born poor and a loner automatically made him a 'sad loser"? Is it ANY wonder that James Potter fans always manage to make excuses for a sadistic piece of shite excuse for a 'human being"? They're every bit as evil as him. And at least HE had the excuse of crushing on Lily since they were young, unlike some lusting d*ckhead that only noticed her AFTER she'd begun to look hot, THEN tried to force her to date him. He's far worse than Snape. Do ANY of you even know how the Dark Arts work? Have ANY of you seen people use Dark Arts? No? Then you have no clue as to what Snape was doing when you list DA as an excuse for James hating Snape. Get with the real-world people. Furthermore, according to the author, James and Sirius DROVE Snape into seeking out the Pureblood DE gangs for protection against those two thugs. Sure, he was dumb enough to think it would impress Lily, but he was weak, being bullied by two a-holes and he thought it would make him strong.
Snape had EVERY excuse to have an awful outlook on life as a kid. What was James' excuse for being a lowlife creep? None, because he was a PoS BY NATUE. James Potter chose his own fate by being who he was and what he was. I have No sympathy for him. It's just too bad his child had to suffer for it. As for Lily, she wasn't stupid. She HAD to know James was just faking it and had never truly changed. She KNEW he was sneaking out of the house to have HIS fun. She made her own damn bed, like so many other shallow ditzy women by going for the hot Bad Boys who are douchebags by nature.
Meanwhile James had NO heroic moments. He didn't rush to save Snape. He was saving his gang of bullies and thugs. How could he have "sacrificed his life for his family" when the idjut was going to die no matter what? And like a TRUE IDJUT, he didn't even think to pick up his weapon that was less than 5 feet away. James own stupidity and arrogance killed James.
Just going by what little we did read of James, it's easy to see he was a d*ckhead that never changed his ways.
I used to be more on the "Snape > James" Team, at least for their past versions, since I empathized far more with the impoverished half-blood loner over the rich, pureblooded jocks that go around in a group sexually harassing people unprovoked. I do think it's questionable that you call Snape an incel but not James, since I don't remember Snape ever wanting to harm or wish ill on Lily for not wanting to date him, while James outright said that he will continue to bully Snape unless Lily goes out with him.
Snape also joined a group filled with hate towards people like Lily. Would he have change his mind if Voldemort didn't go after Potters? Lily specifically? I don't think so.
@@lusinebaghyan8864 Maybe. It's a little hard to tell since his true morality is kept vague for so long. If I remember correctly, he joined out of peer pressure, not because he actually agreed with the DE.
That dosen't change that Severus is a more interesting character, especially since the series dosen't have a lot of mroal nuance outside of him. Snape may have turned out to be not such a good person, but at least it was interesting to see what shaped him into such a person. James is both insufferable and bland.
@@auditect950 I don't remember him being pressured, I remember that he was awful to other mugleborns except for Lilly and was really into dark arts. He is interesting character, fun to read and try to understand, buy, yeah he is not a good person.
For James I think it's about him and Lily being both Harry's parents and being dead. Harry has information about them from their friend and he see one or two memories the way we can have videos from people that passed away. He can't know everything about them, he is orphan and they died when he was too young to remember them. And from that little that we know we understand James as a spoiled kid, good friend, bully but also a kind and loving person. And like Snape he is interesting character to think about, what was he like when Sirius ran away from home to him, how was he with Remus who had low self-esteem because of his condition and so on.
Precisely, I just think it's stupid because James's an incel I would rather say a genetic mistake than an incel, but alright rather than Snape.
@@NeggieKnight He did pants in British mean underwear and that's not what incel means stop using the words that you don't know how to use although I doubt that you ever will.
I see both sides of this debate.
Yes, James was an arrogant jerk and a bully but at least he cared about his friends, grew up and mostly got his act together and joined the fight against Voldemort and made the heroic sacrifice.
Meanwhile Snape was a victim of bullying (I can relate) but he held on to the grudge into adulthood and bullied children, also during his youth he obsessed over Lilly, socialized with racists and joined Voldemort's side and yet later on he became a double agent and contributed to Voldemort's final defeat.
They are both flawed characters, Nuff said.
I think we’re dumbing down the abuse snape did to the kids. He was so bad that he was Neville’s worst fear. That’s appalling.
Snape was a bully as a teenager too. It's written in the books. He defended his friends using dark magic on others by saying it was just for fun. He also called all muggleborn who werent Lily mudbloods. He also created the spell Levicorpus, which James used on Snape in his memory. So, how did James know a spell Snape created unless Snape went around using it on other people.
Stop saying "He grew up, because evidence says he DID NOT.
I don't even know what Snape would have done if, Neville was the chosen one
@@Spawned-uy8ip stop saying he didn't grow up, because evidence says he DID. There's a reason why all the teacher of hogwarts thought James was worthy of being head boy after he matured. There's a reason why Lily decided to give him a chance since she loathed him a few years before that.
You should make a video on how UTTERLY TERRIBLE Officer Roger is! Take The season 2 episode captain hardrock, he is the main reason she is akumatized! Also in The episode Quilin he is also the reason and rufues to help un akumatize her! Real villian there if u ask me
When they were children it sounds like they were both messed up in different ways, James appears more aggressive in this rivalry but Snape was still problematic and racist. People did have reasons to say good things about James, so I see no reason to not give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't do that worse then we know of. He became a dicent young man and Snape the opposite, and later when Snape turned better - he bullied children, as an adult. Is this a real comparison people make?
I don't know, I personally still don't like James Potter. Snape was a horrible man and was racist as well as horrible to children. But, James was a bully, harassed Snape, and was just overall an asshole. All the characters who already liked him were biased opinions (the Marauders, other friends, etc.) Who overlooked him just being a terrible person, including Lilly. That doesn't justify what Snape did, but it's enough to classify James as a jerk and bad character. He's just protected cause he was a gryffindor, good-looking, and athletic so everyone just liked him automatically. Doesn't make him not as ass.
A jerk at the age of 15 James probably, mostly was. Was literally everyone biased about him? Sounds exaggerated. The marauders wewe willing to admit they were messed up, and Lilly caleed him out at the time. No reason to assume he didn't improve over time and died as a different person then the one you don't like. We didn't see enough of him, and we shouldn't, because he is just not that important. No reason to place him as a heroic model niether to hate him in my opinion.
@@adriannaa545Absolute rubbish. You know, comments like yours make me realize that perhaps it will be much better if there was a prequel centred around James Potter being the main/central character in a story about either the Potter family or the Marauders under James's POV. Maybe that way, it will silence haters like you for good.
If James had been such a "decent young man", he wouldn't have had people hating him to the point of taking it out on his kid. No, he was clearly a douchebag that never changed.
@@MavenWalsh Well let's see. The people who thought James Potter was a decent, brave, and selfless young man:
- Harry
- Hagrid
- Dumbledore
- Remus
- Sirius
- McGonagall
- Flitwick
- Lord Voldemort
- Madame Rosmerta
- Mad Eye
- Kingsley Shacklebolt
- Mr and Mrs Evans (Lily's parents)
- Order of the Phoenix members
The people who had a negative opinion of James Potter:
- Snape
- The Dursleys
- Lucius Malfoy
- Death Eaters
I'm sorry but I believe the majority first group.
Someone remind me: I recall Harry questioning who his father was in the HBP after learning he was a bully. Did we ever see/hear how he became a better person?
Yes, when Harry confronted Sirius and Remus about James bullying Snape, they said that he had gotten in line by the last years at school except for frequent hex battles in empty hallways (considering Snape created Sectumsempra in his 6th year, it might have been for James), doing well enough to actually become Head Boy in Year 7 despite never being Prefect.
@@cobalion-aaditya457 Okay, thanks! Given that Remus had his own demons to deal with, I wonder if he was sympathetic towards the rest of the Marauders since they befriended him given his situation.
We hear the same people who had been pretending he had no flaws declare 'he totally cleaned up his act, trust us' but are never shown any objective evidence of it.
Oh yeah, something said from Sirius who keep calling him Snivellus and almost yeeted him by making him go watch Remus transforming as a wolf.
Or Remus who keep acting in a defensive way ?
Before book 5, they always called James something good, even the teachers kept preaching about him. Which to me sound like favoritism.
I was rewatching 'the goblet of fire' earlier today 😂
People really compared a terrorist to a bratty teenage bully, WOW.
And made the terrorist win
Who attacked other students and had a friend that tried to murder snape and then sexually harassed snape so no James may not be as bad but he’s still a piece of crap
He became a terrorist because of the bully. I'm not saying Snape was better though. He just wasn't any worse.
@@dakotalange2858
I don't think its James fault for what Sirius did. He actually saved Snapes life even though he did it for Remus
I don't know where you get the sexually harrased part. Honestly, James never removed Snakes underwear. James could not have lived with the trauma
We have no proof James bullied anyone else. I think if had done, Hagrid, Dumbledore, McGonagall, and practically anyone would not have thought so highly of him
@@normpe2851 James announced loudly that he is going to remove Snape's underwear just before the memory ended. So I think it's safe to assume that it likely happened. Even though james didn't have any sexual intentions, showing of someone's private parts in public without their consent qualifies as sexual harassment. And there definitely are quotes in the books that indicate that James bullied others and was a schoolbully. His friends always referred to the PEOPLE he bullied, it was never just Snape.
When Snape's flashback talk with Lily in Deathly Hallows revealed that Snape was already practising to be a terrorist when the big James vs. Snape scene happened, I just went "Well James you're forgiven". If anyone sympathises with a terrorist-in-making, I feel sorry for their mental state.
Even if someone is a terrorist in the making, that's no excuse to publically sexually assault them. A crime is not justified by the quality of the victim.
but before that they still bullied him a lot for years, and if they didn't torment him so much, he might not have joined the death eathers since he would have a place to escape home or something like that, idk maybe he would have it anyways but I doubt it cuz lily would kick his ass
The dude was just a kid at the time. A kid with a ton of trauma and baggage. Yeah, you can sympathize with him whether you agree with his actions or not.
I would love to see the prove for the claiming they bullying him regularly and that was the reason to join a terror organisation based on blood purity
@@rafaelamartinez1735Yeah,he called Lily a racial slur because of being bullied, fair enough
The defence of James only lies in the assumption that he truly did grow up and didn't simply just "not take cross the line of killing someone" (which you don't need to in order to be an awful person), and he's generally praised by fellow GRYFFINDORS. Believing that automatically means he should be given the benefit of the doubt is like believing the Tories that the Tories should be given the benefit of the doubt in terms of not running the country into the ground.
This is a hard one. Neither were saints, but both had their redeeming qualities too. I feel like one important thing to take into the equation here, is their life spans. One died at the age of 21, while the other became 37 or 38. Honestly, both died too soon, but the fact that Severus Snape got half a decade+ more time than James Potter, is often forgotten. For example, this is crucial as only he is able to show his side of their schooldays rivalry to Harry. Shoving shows a much bigger impression than simply telling. And it´s obvious that these two dudes had quite a lot of history. Rivalries aren´t just created over night. The bomb-chapter is titled "Snapes worst memory", so this was, the way I read it, a particularly cruel and humiliating experience for Severus (understandably so!) Not meaning to defend those acts, but it is important to put them into context. This was during the first wizarding war. We never see what Severus and his "Wannabe death eathers friends" did to the Marauders and other students. The creation of the spell "Sectumsempra" doesn´t send good signals... They were both results of their own upbringings; Severus had a less than optimal home-situation, while James was spoiled rotten. This shows in how they behaved, and who they surrounded themselves with. I will dare say that both of their parents´ failed them a bit, but in Severus´s case, it came from a more tragic and malicious place. Imperfect, complex characters is not the same as pure evil through and through (Except Voldemort). Let´s just appreciate every character individually, and not constantly setting them up against each other as in "is characher X better than character Y?". They both did the best they managed, and that´s what matters to me. (Except, maybe, Severus Snape abusing his power as a teacher to punish students unfairly. He´s obviously a potions genius, but could´ve used some training in pedagogy as a teacher).
So...I personally am more sympathetic to Snape, at least young Snape. Because, even if you know something is morally wrong, and horribly so. Like, young Snape was surrounded by death-eater wannabes, and surely the ideas of people you share a dorm, your meals, your classes and study time would absolutely have no influence on one's vocabulary and beliefs. Add that boarding school inherently encourage teenagers to become more pear-oriented, and if a lot of them are death-eater wannabes, that's just asking for a disaster. Not only that, but British boarding schools of the 60-70s had some plenty of cases of extreme bullying, which is more emotionally distressing than normal bullying, simply because of one, peer orientation, and lack of oportunity to take oneself away from the situation. In first year, the person who greats him at the ceremony is Lucius Malfoy ! What a great role model for an eleven year old boy ! (Note my sarcasm !) We don't know exactly what he was like as a kid, but geez, if his adult version is the result of a slow process and being raised with anti-muggle prejudice... Also, if the other pureblood families are anything like the house of Black, that means Snape would have spent his Hogwarts days surrounded by kids who thinks torture is normal. And Hogwarts being a boarding school, he's not in a position to run or avoid them on a regular basis. From what we know of his family life, Tobias Snape was abusive enough to make a witch cower in front of him. So resentment and being already prisky anything related to his father is also quite natural. Also, Minerva Macgonagall as an older colleague. This is the woman who thinks it's acceptable to send kids to a forest with giant man-eating spiders as punishment for breaking curfew. Also, when terrorist groups are ever honest to the people they recruit, right ? Also, the Snape we see in the books is a man, who's desire for acceptance once lead him to become a terrorist for a person who tortures his allies whenever he's pissed and lead to Lily's death. With this amount of trauma, being afraid of friendship and acceptance, and mostly it's destructive power, very well enters the field of the possible. And sure, it's a very defective and irresponsable way of thinking. Instead of thinking: "what Avery and co did was not acceptable and I should move away from that", he's "Like hell I'm gonna teach love and acceptance to kids by being nice to them !". There is also a possibility that he sees the very fact of seeking social approuval as something inherently defective, and something he must scold out of the kids unless he wants them physically tortured.
So yeah, even if adult Snape is a horrible person, he might also have very skewed ideas of what is acceptable, and with the amount of trauma he has and the morality of his surroundings during his formative years. He's ill-fitted to teach, at least not without years of therapy and re-learning morality. Snape also seem to hate kids and takes it out of them. True jerk move. He bullies kids, and that's fully on him. But it'll be naive to think his background and surroundings don't have an effect on what he perceives to be acceptable behavior, or on anyone else for that matter, and it makes him especially not suitable for teaching. But again, Hogwarts doesn't really do normal recruitment of teachers and staff, and half of them don't have anything to do even near kids. But again, Dumbledore who hired Filch, who openly fantasizes about using medieval torture methods on kids and repeatedly begs him to re-allow it. If it was six of the best he was talking about, I'll just say he's old-fashioned, even kind of cute...But strapado ? Also, my skewed priority theory seems to be comfirmed in Half-Blood Prince because when Harry, in black out rage at his killing Dumbledore, tries to Crucio him, he doesn't react, but Levicorpus makes him loose self-control completely.
Also, Snape didn't turn full terrorist because he didn't get the girl. He turned death eater because the girl in question was his only tenuous link to society outside of the death eater circle at the time.
James had his own bag of issue. Because what we see of James Potter, he seems sure a bit spoiled, a bit mean spirited but he was taught good morals, and is a loyal friend. However, I don't think the Marauders are the most functional group of friends. Because spoiled brat, young aristocrat who thinks torture is normal, third class citizen and syncophan is not the kind of kids you want to put together. For what they are, they were highly functional, but...
Okay, the kind of behavior we see in real-life from similar social groups to any of the Marauder boys are terrifying in their brutality. So, instead of James as just dumb jock bully, he became somehow worst. I talk about slamming genitals into lantern posts, trying to gouge eyes out and so on, some of them growing out of that, some of them not. He lied to Lily about his continuing rivalry with Snape...So yeah...Great start to a relationship. But he did die a hero's death protecting his wife and son, he was a loyal friend, to life and death. Just that this was a friendship that seemed to bring both the worst and the best in him. James was also one of the inventors of the Marauder's map, which is immensely creepy.
Now, James isn't as prone to believe in logical fallacies. At least not as much as Snape does. For someone this intelligent, Snape's thought patterns we know of regarding social life and morality are skewed.
I always say "both sides are as bad as each other" they both have pros and cons to there characters. But if you spread it out like this I have to side with you. Snape is not a good person. He is also not a bad person. He had more living time since he made it to almost 40 and James just 21. I think it's would be more excusable if he really changed his personally after Lillys death, you know starting over. Most of us do dumb shit when we're teenagers, hang out with the wrong crowd. But I still believe that both sides are as bad as each other with the scales tiped more towards Snape
I mean, Snape is a bad person. He bullied children as an adult teacher. That's a really shitty thing to do that can't be excused by teenage idiocy.
@@en4833 true and I'm not trying to excuse his actions. They come from a place of pain. Snape didn't have a good home life and not a good school experience. The only good thing was Lilly. He got so attached to her that he couldn't lose her. After her marriage to James and her death he lashed out the only way he knew how. James inadvertently played a huge role in his later actions because he couldn't get over his own bullying. And honestly Dumbledore knew Snape was bullying the kids and did nothing. But long story short yes Snape is worse in the long run, but in my opinion only because he lived longer than James. Otherwise they are both as bad as each other
@@lovelylife-tz4be I mean, he joined the wizard version of the Nazis, presumably joining in on the killing and torture of muggles and muggleborns. His friends also bullied students using actual Dark magic, which is worse than anything James ever did. james was only ever described as using hexes, not Dark magic or anything actually harmful. And since Snape defended them, we can kinda assume he was at the very least watching them do it, and maybe even participating.
The only thing James really did was bully Snape during school. Which is terrible, but not worse than what Snape did, even as a teenager.
I also reject the idea that James' bullying is what drove Snape to do the horrible things we did. We see that Snape already had anti muggle prejudie before going to Hogwarts, and liked hurting others he viewed as below him, as we see when he hurt Petunia.
Snape is just an objectively worse person than James.
@@en4833 I agree. I'm not saying that I'm not. Maybe my opinion is just less strong.
He hated muggles because of his dad who was abusive. And petunia for treating Lilly badly.
James was just everything that that Snape wasn't. He had friends, was popular, he had loving parents,, he was rich and he got the girl of his dreams.
In snapes mind it probably made sence. Everyone's actions make sence to them. He did the wrong things. But it's just like joining a gang that is taking it to far. He didn't know how far gone he was until it was to late.
If anything I'm more mad at Dumbledore. He knew what was happening in school and later with the death eaters and didn't really do anything to stop it.
I recommend cinema therapy they have a great episode on Snape if you're interested.
He is definitely a bad guy. His actions are understandable to me but that doesn't make them right by any means
@@lovelylife-tz4be Yeah, I agree with you. Snape is a tragic character, and his actions are understandable. It's just that some people mistake understandable with excusable. Snape's past doesn't make him any less of a bad person, it just makes him more complex. A backstory is an explanation, not an excuse.
holy hell this is the earliest i've seen one of your videos! Love yout stuff Smartypants :D
I also keep the opinion that James grew up and took responsibility for his mistakes, Snape, didn't really seem to, and made life hell for multiple other people in the series, including but not limited to Neville. If it turned out that Neville was the chosen one, Snape wouldn't have done anything to save them, the only reason he did was because of his love for Lily. Yes, James was a dickhead in school, but so was Snape. Both jackasses were as bad as the other, but one grew up, the other didn't really. But these are just my thoughts :)
Yes, James was a bully when he was a teenager, but he stopped later & he was also brave, incredibly loyal and a great friend, father & husband, who supported his friend Remus when most people would’ve abandoned him & even learnt the incredibly complex animagus-spell for him. He also sacrificed his live for his wife & son. Snape on the other hand was an immature man-child, who as a teenager sympathized with Voldemort & the death eaters (you know: the HP-equivalent of the nazis), invented cruel spells as a teen, called his best friend a slur, bullied other kids & when he became an adult, he became a nazi-wizard. He only stopped, because the woman he was obsessed with was targeted. He didn’t care about the other victims. He didn’t even care about Lily’s husband & baby! He just wanted to safe Lily in the beginning. He also bullied his students, you know: Children! He was a grown man, a teacher, an authority figure, who bullied every single none-Slytherin-student. He was so unfair & favoured his own house so much, that he is the reason that Slytherin won the house-cup every year. He bullied Harry, an innocent child, just because he happened to look like his father & wasn’t Snapes son. He bullied Neville so much, that he became his WORST FEAR! Neville’s parents were tortured to insanity & jet his wort fear was his teacher, who he still bravely faced ever week. And why? Just because Neville wasn’t the kid from the prophesy. He threatened to poison Nevills pet (wich he got because as a proof that he had magic, something important to him) & when Treavor didn’t die, he punished Gryffindor by taking points from them. He made sure that Remus lost the only job he ever had & that he would never have a job again, just because his childhood bully didn’t get kissed by a dementor (a fate worse then death.) He also knows exactly what it’s like to be bullied & still told Hermione „I see no difference“ when her teeth grew abnormally large.
Honestly: He’s the worst. The absolute worst!
Agreed, James grew up and learned. Hell that’s probably why he and lily really get together to begin with, he matured.
Cry all you want. Snape is an awesome written character and many people's favourite and no amount of evil actions he did can ever change that LMAO
@@faith518 he had a last minute redemption, quit putting him on a pedestal.
Preach
@@faith518 being a fan favorite doesn't make a character a good person. A lot of Harry Potter characters are a delight to read but are awful people.
If I'm being honest...neither. James was a relentless bully just for the kicks. and snape was no different, he bullied a CHILD for petty revenge 🤦🏽♀️. in conclusion I vote for Lily lol.
Watching this video has been deeply cathartic. Thank you.
I always felt like I wouldn't have liked James or Severus. They both seemed like misogynistic a**hole bullies to me who I would have avoided. James was a thick headed jock and Severus was a jealous incel. And I despise people who act like either of those. I still cherish my childhood memories of my mom reading the books with us, and when I got older I had the books in my bedroom when I didn't have good friends to hang out with or I was too sick to go play. And the movies were cinematic masterpieces, which inspired my childhood self and led me to pursue college to make movies myself. But that's about it. F**k Joker Rowling. In hindsight none of the story makes any sense or ties together when you start to analyze it, and her bigotry clearly shows in her writing. But I will always love the movies because they took a pile of shit that was sprayed in perfume and grew beautiful flowers out of it 🤣😂 Full respect for the movie directors, actors, special effects artists, and everyone else who worked on the movies 💜💙💚
Something about James Potter growing up all adored and loved but still choosing to bully others for fun makes me dislike him. His bullying is also repulsive like choking Snape on soap and threatening sexual harassment etc all because of ‘boredom’.
And JKR didn’t bother giving him proper growth. “Deflated his head a bit” is not convincing enough. We weee simply expected to accept that he changed.
He didn't bully other for fun, he hexed. That's not automatical bully. The most students hexing each other. That doesn't mean Hogwarts is full of bullies...
Sexual harassment? Like force to shown other one pants? Like, the literally function of the Levicorpus?
I'm not even in the Harry Potter fandom (and don't particularly care for it) and I've seen too many arguments about this topic, to the point where before I watched the latter movies, I thought this whole thing was a bigger part of the story than what it was. That's how vicious and vocal fans got about it. It makes me wish the story had been centered on those two in their school days rather than the chosen-one-boy-wizard vs. the Legion of Doom.
I think they're both flawed people in different ways but because James procreated and Snape didn't, there's going to always be a bias for a father giving his life for his son who is the main character than a man devoting his life to being an undercover agent. There's really no comparison, though, and having a war between the two is silly since one died before the series began and the other only dies near the end.
They both suck. Deal with it.
ik you aren't part of this fandom and probably don't care for this but the movies left out a lot of important parts from the books. Like how Snape was as much of a bully as James was to other people, he called all muggleborns who weren't Lily mudbloods and defended his friends bullying using dark magic as just for fun. He also supported Voldemort from a young age despite his bff being a muggleborn herself.
And in the books, we get a scene where Harry is told that James matured and grew up to be a good person, and that he had become so much better that Lily gave him a chance in the seventh year and he was also chosen to be Head Boy.
Also, in the movied Snape seemed like a strict teacher but in the books he was an outright bully. He bullied Hermione on her looks (when she was hexed and her entire face was messep by Draco, he looked at her and told her he saw no difference at all). He bullied Neville to the point where he became his greatest fear (it's shown by a monster that turns into a persons greatest fear). And it was compared to a woman who tortured Neville's parents to insanity (to the point they were permanantly hospitalised, had no previous memort and could barely talk) was still alive. He threatened to kill Neville's pet and was overall really mean to everyone.
In the books, he's also willing to let Harry and James die to protect Lily, when he knew the loss of her husband and child would kill her. He was also the one who told Voldemort of the prophecy basically giving up a childs life. And it's clear that if Lily's life wasn't in danger he would have never switched sides.
James on the other hand, was a pureblood and quite respected. He had absolutely no reason to participate in the war and could have been safe away from him. yet, he chose to join a group to protect people at 18, risking his life every single day till the day he died. He also saved Snape's life, risking his own life from a werewolf back at school. And when James was in hogwarts, he found out one of his best friends was a werewolf (who were hates, frowned upon and considered dangerous). Instead of shunning him, he not only accepted him but became an animagus, which is basically when a human can turn into an animal along with Sirius and Peter even though it was an extremely dangerous thing to do and illegal. He did it just so that Remus wasn't alone in pain during the full moons.
Honestly, it always seemed weird why snape made that spell in the first place? A spell that will make you hang off leg upside down in the air. All wizards wear robes, a person who's making a spell like that has to know that the subject of the spell will definitely be exposed if it's used on them. (And the way the death eaters hung that poor women in the air in book 4 definitely doesn't do him any favours because it makes me thing what if he made that spell to give it to the death eaters..)
James was definitely a c**t but honestly i wanna hear the whole story..why did lily smile seeing the way snape was being treated (i know they weren't on good terms but still, he was her best friend)..was she as shallow as people display her to be..did what james do was his normal bullying ways or some sort of revenge on snape, was james as bad as he seemed in the scene or better or maybe he was worse? Maybe he didn't fix his act, maybe he only hid it better for lily? I mean they explained it.. I don't remember the exact lines but it sounded weird and made it feel like maybe james might have not grown up.
Man, i really need a backstory, honestly, a marauders story is a way better idea than readapting harry potter again.
Lily didn't smiled. Her mouth only twitched for a tiny moment. SWM was very soon after Snape tried to out Lupin after he followed him since month and must be rescued. Even after that Snape still tried to told Lily about Lupins condition. And we read in the books that Snape never missed a chance to cursed James and that James hexed back. Lily asked Snape why he was so obsessed about the marauders and he never mentioned it that he only tried to defend himself because they bullied him so much. He was jealous.
But you are right. We definitely need s fair background story.
Snape at that point was already calling muggleborns mudbloods, hanging out with Death Eater wannabes, expressing genuine interest in joining the Death Eaters himself, and participating in, or at least watching his friends use actual Dark magic against other classmates to bully them. Snape at this point was already a piece of shit. Lily and Snape weren't on the best of terms at this point, to put it lightly, and definitely weren't still best friends. Lily also didn't smile. Her mouth twitched slightly.
No, yes, you both are right, lily didn't smile, her mouth only twitched..don't take me wrong, I'm not trying to imply that she was bad or something..I just find it interesting. My point is there was word choice made that brought about a certain dimension to Lily's formerly simpler character. Coz the intention of saying Lily's mouth twitched in the end is that some part of her found it a bit funny which conflicted with her formerly pure and motherly image or atleast that's what I thought of her. So what brought about that reaction? I know their friendship was pretty strained at that point, and lily certainly knew that Snape was hanging out with death eaters and maybe she even knew about the truth of the Lupin incident..and that's what's interesting coz what's the story there? I only said things like maybe this means lily was shallow or James was more sinister because these are very common alternative conclusions that are made from those scenes by a lot of hp fans and every theory makes the scene all the more intriguing for me. It's just fun to think about. I don't really have any preformed opinions on these characters except maybe peter pettigrew.
1. snape doesn't have anti-muggle prejudice, Petunia was bullying her sister and insulting Snape so he fought back against her. snape's "racism" is an alleged unsupported rumor that the Marauders fans spread. he told Lily that it didn't make any difference that she was a muggle-born when they were kids and when he grew up he started to hang out with Slytherins to gain power and to protect himself from his bullies. naturally, he would start to use the "m" word along with them.
2. snape didn't say anything when James attacked him and decided to take his underwear off he was minding his own business and James got bored. so he decided to bully him as usual. From what we have seen this happens all the time to Snape. he called Lily the M-word because of her hypocrisy, she had a conversation with him earlier and told him that his friends are evil and that James and his friends are not that bad after all that they did to him. snape was really angry at her and he still apologised.
3. James Potter was severely narcissistic and if you can't understand why he is popular and everyone likes him, then you don't understand how narcissism works. narcissists love attention and they even do good things to gain it, they treat their surroundings well and take care of them. but at the same time, they are capable of great harm to get what they want and love to choose targets. in James's case that was snape. he literally bullied Snape because he and Lily were friends.
The only reason people like Snape is because of Alan Rickman we all know this is he was played by a lesser actor he’d be despised as much as Joffrey
James didn't get the girl so he became a better person and got the girl.
Snvillus didn't get the girl so he called her a slur then joined wizard Hitler and bullied kids while also being a major factor in their death.
Was James a dumb 15year old YES but he C H A N G E D
Snape seems good sure but he was fvcking obsessed with Lily and bullied her child because he remins him of a guy he didn't like in high school
James was a good person with good morals let me just point out he let Sirius stay with him for year's after running away knowing full well if the Black family wanted to they could rip him to shreads, HE JOINS THE WAR AND DIED FOR IT
Meanwhile Snape joined the psychopath who was killing muggleborns
When he goes to Dumbledore he says protect Lily
Only when Dumbledore says he is disgusted by him he says fine protect them all which is only why he helped Harry's side
Because he was obsessed with Lily so he sold himself off to Dumbledore
Snape literally is shown saying his life goal is to be a death eater HE DOES NOT HAVE A PURE HEART
Imagine if the roles were reversed
James would not have ever firstly joined the death eaters and secondly would have said protect them all, why? BECAUSE HE KNEW (imaging the roles are reversed) THAT LILY WAS HAPPY AND WOULDN'T WANT TO TAKE THAT AWAY FROM HER
Meanwhile Snape willing joined Voldemort, it wasn't like he was forced, not like Regulus who didn't have any other options
He was half-blood he would have had a choice
He could have fought for the right side but let's be honest part of the reason he would never have joined the order if Lily didn't die was because he didn't want to work with the marauders.
Also let's not forget that he told everyone that Remus was a werewolf, leaving him without a job and with low chances of getting another.
Snape wasn't an innocent 15 year old it just seems that way because we are seeing the events THROUGH HIS MEMORIES.
Memories aren't an accurate source of events, there will always be some certain bias in them and you won't remember things perfectly, there would also likely be unintentional blindness at some point.
Clearly Snape wasn't innocent as the marauders while being as$holes weren't people with bad morals and if Snape was truly innocent would have likely stopped.
Also they first thing Snape says to James is insulting Gryffindor, aka. the house most of his family has been in for decades. Snape got left with a nickname, imagine if that had been said to someone like Malfoy, he would have ripped him to shreads, honestly James was in the right to be p!ssed.
In the end they were both sh!t teens but one changed and became a better person and one joined wizard hitler
Edit:
Also please look at the books, people like the actor not the character presented in the books. The same thing happens with Malfoy (while I still love him) he isn't meant to be a good person, with a tragic backstory, sh!t parents, forced into war. He is meant to be a rich, arrogant, spoiled as$hole and a racist who willingly joins Voldemort. But the fact he is played by Tom Felton means that the actor and character get mixed up slightly making him a better person. But even then Draco was a child, he was 16-17, Snape was definitely over 17 when he willing joins Voldemort, he wasn't pure blood meaning firstly he likely wouldn't have had the choice to join earlier (Reg, Evan, Barty to some extent, ect.) meaning he was at least 17 but considering James and Lily we're 21 when they died he could have joined later meaning he was old enough to know. Also an extension on the pure blood part this also means there was no or less external pressure to join Voldemort. Most pure bloods had the option death eater or die but Snape was half-blood meaning that he likely wasn't given life or death choices.
Edit number 2:
Also Shapes worst memory is I their fifth year, this could likely be after Snape threatened to tell the whole school about Remus' condition. While Sirius did an absolute d!ck move Snape shouldn't be getting revenge on Moons for that and remember Prongs talks to Moony before doing it, not Padfoot meaning this could have been a sort of 'Do not hurt my friends you prick' move but we don't really get context so honestly this is just mostly a theory.
Edit 3: Honestly this was probably the perfect video to sum everything up, James was an idiot, but Snape started the war and tried to get people killed and was friends with people who either r@ped or tortured girls and knew what he was doing, bullied children and never gave remorse.
#clubhatesnapeanddumbledore
THANKS❤❤
Your very ignorant to James’s bullying. Your also talking about book snape boy movie snape
Movie snape is a hero book snape is a dickhead
Not taking sides here, I just would say;
The difference from your wiev might come from the fact tham with James we get a "yeah, yeah, he was a good guy" but ending his story kinda on a bad note, while in Snape's chase is's "yeah, yeah, he was a bad guy" but ending his story on good thinsgs... so, we kinda get the James corruption and Snape redemption arch more focusd on...
How did this video know I had just read OoTP, specifically the part about Snape and James?
I have seen lots of Snily ships but I prefer the canon James and Lily ship. At least the former is better Snape and Harry (Snarry) crack shipping I am not joking that actually exists. Ewwwwww
Both guilty. Add on that Dumbles blatant gryphindore bias probably egging it all on & it was just a recipe for disaster
If we got to know more about James . I think that we could rate him better. I all so think that Harry's Mother should have married someone not from Hogworts because I think that Hogworts is a horrible School.
I am in the middle as I hate both of them in few cases but also like them at the same time for other cases.
My thing is i saw movie Snape before book Snape. So book Snape sucks like I would be on the side of James. But in movie Snape I feel like I'm fine with both like they both were kids now if it was Sirius vs Snape then I feel bad for Snape because Sirius did go overboard. While James and Remus grew past the past. Sure movie Sirius also is personally in my opinion more fatherly towards Harry but we still see he is childish with his interactions with Snape. Either way both James and Snape were kids bullys and just grew out of it as they got older some more petty and childish then others in Book Snapes case and Sirius case towards Snape.
I think they're both terrible, but James was less so. Doesn't mean I'd be part of his team in this debate. Being a bully itself is horrible. And then he matured and bettered himself, because he realized his mistakes and became the member of the order. Snape was part of the death eaters, created horrible spells as a TEENAGER and only turned sides cus of Lily, as you mentioned. The fact that his group was waging war and murd3ring wizards wasn't enough for him to turn a leaf. Even though James was a horrible bully which i too would have a hard time forgiving, he wasn't evil.
Saying they are both "terrible" is a huge leap.
James WAS bad and Snape IS terrible you can't just label two different people as the exact same thing there is a different between bad Terrible and awful
Dang. You make a good point. James did end up being a better person. But Snape never stalked Lily. Therapists React did a long video on whether or not Snape's love was toxic and ultimately they said it wasn't. They say the notebook and Edward x Bella were toxic in their other vids but not Snilly.
Honestly they're both terrible.
100% I agree
Everyone’s gonna think I’m copping out but I choose neither. I choose Harry’s side. James was arrogant both a teenager when he bullied Snape and as an adult when he left his Wand on the coach when a known murdere was hunting his family.Snape was selfish, a borderline incel, and for no reason a terrible teacher.
Absolute bullshit. There is nothing arrogant about leaving your wand!!!
Both are characters who did a lot of good for the Wizarding World and yet who went out of their way to make others miserable for basically no reason. I don’t think you can really can either of them good people due to this, as they both clearly showed that they could be malicious towards innocents without any sign of remorse, and both showed serious signs of hypocrisy and arrogance. Even so, from what we’ve heard at least, James is arguably more moral than Snape is. While James may have bullied kids at school, he eventually fought for the Order of the Phoenix and gave up his life for the cause. Snape, on the other hand, not only became a Death Eater supporting genocide, but only flipped due to the death of one woman and spent the rest of his life maliciously bullying children while he was an adult. James clearly has the high ground.
Sirius, on the other hand…I think you can argue that he’s about as good as Snape. He seemed to always put Peter down when they are at school (insulting him casually), he nearly got Remus executed because he wanted to pull a prank on Snape, he nearly killed Snape over a schoolyard grudge and expressed no remorse even years later as an adult, and he didn’t support Harry the way he should have later simply because Harry was too “lame” for him (he coldly cuts Harry off one time in GoF because Harry doesn’t want Sirius risking getting caught by the Ministry, even as Harry desperately needs advice for the murder plot against him and the deadly Triwizard Tournament). Overall, Sirius Black is about as close of a gray character to Snape as you’ll find, without James’ redeemed qualities of being vouched for by Hagrid or having caught Lily’s eye or actually trying to save Snape’s life.
Both were terrible people at their time but I choose Snape because his character is very interesting. not white nor black is all grey. He is as he is. He didn't need excuses to make him look as a saint not like James stans do with their fave lmao
Honestly they're both pretty garbage. Snape was an incel and James was a bully, we as the readers know that James changes but we never really see it we're just told and considering how he treated Snape and how pushy he was with Lily at the time, it's a pretty far leap. Snape is also just terrible, pining after a girl who isn't interested whilst calling her slurs and joining a terrorist group against her kind then bullying children because he's miserable. That whole part of the book is difficult to read, especially from Harry's perspective; his betrayal of his father's memory along with him relating to Snape being a victim of bullying as well.
At least James became better by working against Voldemort and against the whole 'blood purity' thing plus he goes out his way to rescue Snape despite hating him, making him better in my eyes.
How pushy ? The guy never was pushy with her, she was her childhood friend !! James was the one pushy with her, he even stated that he will keep pining on her until she leaves Snape.
James had his friends group while Snape only had Lily. It's also clear from what he heard from the teachers, James had favoritism.
What do you expect, from a guy alone, abused, bullied for being himself or being around his friend from another group will do ?
Because no one understand him, the girl who has been his friend his all life probably down play his suffering because she starts having a crush on the jock who bullied him pretty much all of the time. Result, he goes with the only other people he can spend his time and see on a daily basis with : other slytherin who for most are pure blood that follow Voldemort.
Tries to cut ties with her the most extreme way so that way there is no turn back.
@@narudayo5053 I think you've misread my comment. I said James was pushy with Lily when he was a teenager
I would love to see the proves for all that claims. Because. There aren't someone. None of that standing in the books. Not the part with lily and James, not that they bullied him regularly. He had friends long before SWM, he defense dark magic attacks against other students, he was part of magic nazi gang, he literally admitted that he followed them over a longer time and that he called every muggelborn rascial slurs. There isn't a single prove that he was that tiny innocent little wallflower. He created dark magic curses and made it to his speciality. He created a spell to show other students underwear. Sorry
there is no side to choose when one side is a facist, bye
i like Snape more his backstory is more interesting and i feel sorry for him but he was still a terrible teacher😅
Correction:Terrible person
“Sl…ow… cl…ap“ 👏👏👏 👍
My take from this video is that Lily has terrible taste in friends and men
But i think. Why no one its talking about lily
I mean i understand that you fell ofended by being called mudblood by for chilhood friend but. Even so in the situation. Lily could use her brain to understand. The intentions of snape. And later she forgets everyrhing. James. Has done. And enter a couple. And like 7 years later you think its better to. Fix the things
Man. I think lily also was a little garbage
Snape was literally friends with a group of wannabe terrorists who thought people like her should die, and he expressed these same views about anyone but her. Let's not blame Lily for cutting off the friendship when she realized he'd never ditch this life, not even for her.
@@yawninglion1677 yeah thas also true but i think lily should do the same for james i mean literally. James was the same for 7 years until lily was pregnant and the book is telling me that lily let slide
: Allowing a poorly-controlled transformed werewolf to endanger citizens, including children. This is almost certainly a crime in the literal sense.
2: Being an unregistered Animagus. This is definitely a crime, because Hermione was able to blackmail Rita by threatening to reveal it.
3: Being a “relentless bully” to Severus, including significant physical assault and minor sexual assault.
4: Enabling Sirius’s dangerous mania. It’s greatly to James’s credit that he prevented Sirius from killing Severus - but then he encouraged him to go on persecuting him, which was hugely irresponsible (although perhaps not amazingly so at 16).
5: Collaborating in inventing a surveillance device which enabled him and his friends to spy on hundreds of people, most of them children. They know who’s in the lavatory, who’s in the shower with someone else - it’s a massive and very creepy invasion of privacy.
6: Making a flaming nuisance of himself to all and sundry by hexing people at random.
7: Being dishonest in office by continue to prosecute a secret hex war
I mean if lily take a whole decade to "fix the garbage person james was i am only thinking she "start changing him when she got pregnant"
@@beldafigueroa6799Absolute rubbish. You know, comments like yours make me realize that perhaps it will be much better if there was a prequel centred around James Potter being the main/central character in a story about either the Potter family or the Marauders under James's POV. Maybe that way, it will silence haters like you for good.
@@paulyb7267 look i try to being honest i honestly i dont defend both. But if you call me a hater for giving my opinion. Maybe you have the problem but i am asking how i am being a hater
@@paulyb7267 because if you are calling me a hater because i am calling. Out james actions.
So maybe calling out severus. Will be. Doing something m. He was bullyng neville because in his though he should die that day not lilie he was part of some terrorist. Emo group he was killing people and so he was a racist that. Dint like people. Like muggles and
Psychological abuse
Assault
Stalking
Consensual homicide (unwillingly)
Aiding and abetting
Forgery
The same people who say 'oh, well, James got better!' are the same people who had spent the series acting like he had no flaws to begin with. So far as I am concerned we don't really have any reliable narrators to give us a clear picture since both his friends and his enemy are obviously biased as hell. But I believe I have worked out two things, based on things that both sides seem to agree on.
1# He wasn't a magic Nazi
2# At no point did he ever seem to make any attempt to reach out to his bullying victims and try to make things right with them. Because if he had we would have no doubt heard his supporters say 'he even tried to bury the hatchet but Snape refused!' and Snape would have made snide remarks about him having made some 'insincere attempt at apologizing'. So he maybe potentially stopped hurting other people for his own amusement but he never took any responsibility for the damage he had already done to people (likely with the excuse that most of them were terrible people and so didn't deserve an apology because who apologizes to bad guys?).
Meanwhile, Snape was a magical Nazi and he as a grown adult used his position of authority to bully children so that makes him a worse person even if James was a dick.
I have only seen the movies but it seems Snape is the only Harry Potter Character to teach Harry HOW Harry’s parents were.
Every other Harry Potter character only talks about WHO and WHAT James and Lily were- not HOW they were like.
Harry thought his parents were martyrs who died for a great cause for Wizards but Snape taught Harry they were just murder victims of Voldemort.
Snape was tough on Harry because he thought Harry was abusing his privilege as “the boy who lived” similar to James abusing his privilege.
@@petermj1098You really should read the books.
I do think that james was in the end even a good person.
Disclaimer: He was a jerk in his hogwarts days. He was a serious bully, not just to snape, but a lot of people, even though mostly snape, yes. But it was stated that he and i belive sirius as well were also going after other students, even if not as severely as after snape. But i do believe that James genuinely matured a great deal and became a good person during his last years at hogwarts and proof lies within the fact that lily eventually fell in love with him. Lily, was always described as the most kind person people knew, whenever they talked abt her, she did not bully, she was not arrogant, whatsoever. She was a textbook angel in form of a human. Do you really think that someone like that would fall in love so deeply in love with a former bully, if he did not genuinely gone out of his way to make his wrongs right and apologized and made up for the things he had done in the past? I honestely do not think so. So the only thing that people have going for them who really think that james also was a jerk during his days with lily is that, they themselves never saw that, which is kinda weird in a ficitonal story, like, how do you know anything else the AUTHOR tells you is true? Is Voldemort actually the hero? Do Mudbloods actually try to overthrow wizardkind? I mean we never got specifically shown that isn't like that were we? hmmm
Actually it's only described that James hexed other people. Like a lot of students do. That's didn't mean he bullied other one. And that the marauders especially and regularly bullied him is just fanon. It's literally nowhere standing in any book.
My opinion: They’re both as bad as each other. Peace out ✌️
First of all, how exactly was Snape a "loser" when he'd managed to work his way into Voldemort's inner circle? If by having a bad personality, you mean he was a loser, then that also applies to James Potter. James (the grapist) Potter, who had to blackmail girls into dating him, while torturing their best friends at the same time. Such a nice guy. He didn't go into those tunnels to save Snape. He was saving his gang of vicious thugs. He would have gladly sit by and watched Snape die a horrible death if he could have kept his friends out of trouble. They relentlessly bullied Sanpe. Those were the author's words. They ultimately drove him into joining the local gang.
But which was better? Neither of them was better. James would have bullied Slytherin students if he'd become a teacher. They were both awful people.
Absolute rubbish with your nonsense that James would be a terrible teacher, the same James who thought Peter how to be an animagus.
@@paulyb7267 Total BS head canon. Rowling never said James taught Peter jack. For all we know Peter taught them. When will the James Potter stans finally pull their heads out of his keyster?
@@MavenWalsh It is literally stated in the books that Peter needed all the help to become an animagus and he became one much later than James and Sirius.
@@paulyb7267 It still never said THEY taught him.
@@MavenWalsh You know what your problem is: you HATE how successful James is and how he always comes out as the top dog, so you use whatever flaws he has to downplay his success and to bring him down as a character. It's like Novak Djokovic in tennis: the fans will always root for his opponents and will hate it every time he wins.
We all got to take a small step back here. James may had done few jerkish things while he was young but honestly haven't we all done things that we're not proud of? Life is about growing from your mistakes. James still was loyal to his family and friends and when his world was threatened by a extremely dangerous wizard he did stepped up to try to save his world and others. No doubt that the war helped him see the world on a much more spiritual way. We have to understand that nobody (besides Snape) hold his childhood mistakes against him. He (and many others) grew up. He can't be defined as a person over one period of his life. It's like what Dumbledore and Sirius both said...everybody have good and bad in them and are capable of changing. We have to remember that much of the negativity of James comes from Snape who is someone who is not only holding a childhood grudge but refuses to acknowledges and see that James did do some good in his life. We have to remember that despite Snape having a deep fondness for Lilly, he was the one who wasn't willingly to changes for her nor was he willingly to see his own faults between him and James' rivalry. The situation isn't as black and white as the films make it out to be. We see that Harry does learn to accept that his father was human and regained enough respect for him that he named one of his sons after him.
Team Snape. He's my fellow teacher :P
James was horrible as a kid, but good as an adult.
Snape was good as a kid, but horrible as an adult.
Who do you hold responsible more, kids or adults?
James bullies a guy and other slytherins that joined the slytherin/voldemort gang in Hogwarts who went around cursing and torturing other students, and later fights against Voldemort, what a monster. Snape becomes a spy after his crush(he was perfectly fine with everything Voldemort did before that) was killed but continues bullying children as an adult and abuses his position of authority, what a hero.
Just Imagine Neville was the Chosen one.
Most of the negative information we get about James is from the memories of someone who was deeply resentful and jealous towards him. On top of that, it's essentially cherry-picked, and we don't know if there's further context.
Memories aren't always truth, especially when emotionally charged. They can hyperfocus on specific things and are interpretations from the person who has them.
I say this as someone who was an outcast, as someone who was bullied a lot in school. James was the better person. It's not even a contest.
Everything Snape did was motivated by his own self-centeredness. He didn't care about Lily as a person, he cared about the function she could fill in his life. It was always about him, his desire for her. Even in the end. He wasn't driven by love but by desire.
If Harry hadn't had his mother's eyes, do you think Snape would have done even half of the things he did to "save" Harry?
Is Snape a much better written character than James, absolutely! But that doesn't mean he deserves any sort of redemption. He's basically torturing himself out of some self-imposed righteousness without taking any ownership of the multitude of things he has done wrong.
def not a Snape stan, but saying he never felt sorry or changed isn't really true lol
both James and Severus are great wizards in their own right but also good people. they both have their sins are are not perfect but i see this as a Goku and Vegeta both have raw talent but in certain aspects. James had a natural ability like Goku and Snape was the hard worker like Vegeta. just my opinion. i think Snape ended up the better wizard cause he got to grow older (and was trained personally by both Voldemort and Dumbledore) could snape of beaten James when he was younger? sure but he was always jumped by James and his friends.
One do have to remember the wizard world was in a war. It was so bad that Hagrid himself even said that it was very dark times and that everybody was so scared that even after the war ended they still refuses to use the dark wizard's name. Wars changes people. James had to see allies and friends getting killed right in front of him.
You have to remember that he just became a father for a year and he find out that the dark wizard was going to go after his son. The man who let nobody lives when he decided to kill them. James had to be protective of his family. This wasn't about himself. He was willingly to hide in order to protect his wife and son. Then when he came, he tried his best to protect them.
You have to remember that he lost his parents young due to them being old when they had him. No doubt that he wishes that they were still around and that they could had met their grandson.
You have to remember that for all of his flaws he was still friends with both a werewolf and someone who comes from a pure-blood extremist family background. He didn't judges Remus and Sirius which is why both are so loyal to him even after his death.
James went through lot as a young adult so how can you say that he didn't changes? Also, some people don't get to burry the hacket but while it would been nice to do so, does that really mean that you changes or not? Some people will never get along no matter what. Also, even if he did, would Snape even accepts it? Would Snape even admit his own wrong doing in the feud? You can't put all the blame on James because Snape played a role in this too. Also, Snape became a death eater during their young adulthood so why on earth would James want to say "I'm sorry" to him?
honestly, yeah. james is much better than snape morally. though, i still fucking hate james so so much. he frustrates me. i stand by the fact that fanon snape is so much better, not the fangirl bullshit, but the sevitus/severitus. petty and sarcastic snape>>>abusive, immature snape. snape was clearly meant a tragic character, but the bad outweighs the good in him.
also who the fuck would show off someone elses panties in front of a crowd of people as a prank, i do not trust james. even if snape wasn't stripped nude, it's still fucked. (this is not to disagree with anything here)
Am I the only one who thinks Snape wouldn’t have any reason to join the Death Eaters if he got therapy before his Hogwarts age… and never put a single foot into Hogwarts in the first place? (Even though he might have problems with his magic without the necessary education to control it 🫠 Eh… we never get everything)
I would root for movie snape every time (except for when he bullies students) because the writers and alan rickman made him more nuanced and showed he had a heart when he protected the trio as much as he could.
I wish we saw James more in the movies. But still loved him through how his loved ones saw him so I rooted for him too.
I do love and root for James in the books. He had one bad moment and that is all we see in the movies. He did try to be better and he was a great friend.
Book Snape was awful with no redemption in between.
I’m on James’s side, James was a dick at 15, but he grew up and matured into a good man, Snape remained a pathetic manchild until his dying day, James fought against wizard Nazis, Snape only switched sides because Lily was in danger, had Voldemort went after the Longbottom’s, Snape would have remained a death eater.
For some reason Snape fans think an arrogant bully is comparable to a pureblood supremacist terrorist.
Lmao I hate both of them.
I don't side with either James 1st or Severus. Neither character were very good people. At least James do learn what his morals needs to be but, Severus just won't leave well enough alone. For Lilly Evans, her feelings for Snape was just chemistry for the most part and it was not until after Snape called her a "Mudblood" (He never really meant to call her that, she just never gave him the chance to explain), she realized that her infatuation with Snape was nothing more than just a phase, but for Snape he continues to confuse his obsession with the meaning of the word "LOVE", and now the difference between James' Stag Patronus and Snape's Deer Patronus makes sense. James Potter's Stag Patronus doesn't mean it reflects his Animagus form, that is sort of an after thought of a coincidence, what it really represents is his attraction to Lilly(Kind of like, how a Buck falls in Love with a Doe); and the Real reason Snape's Patronus is a Doe, just like Lilly's is because it is not merely the love he has for her, it actually resembles his obsession for Lilly. Remarking Harry's eyes is as close to an apology he'd ever make to Harry, sometimes people just can't express things with either their words or their eyes as good as others could.
Both James and Snape are terrible.
James was an asshole as a teenager, but I truly don’t understand people who act as if Snape was an innocent victim. There’s heavy textual evidence that he was just as bad.
Let’s review:
1. Snape was a bigot well before he ever met James. He insulted Petunia for being a Muggle and dismissed Lily when she was hurt over her sister hating her because, in his words, “she’s only a Muggle.”
2. Snape was the one who actually started the rivalry between him and James. James made a comment about how he wouldn’t want to be in Slytherin, and Snape made it personal by calling James a dumb jock.
3. Snape was an emotionally abusive and jealous friend to Lily. When Lily tried to express concern over Snape associating with Death Eaters, Snape refused to listen and instead went on a spiel about how horrible the Marauders were.
4. Now, onto the part about Sirius trying to “murder” Snape-I’ll agree that telling Snape how to get past the Willow was wrong. However, that’s all he did, and it hardly qualifies as a murder attempt because there’s evidence that Snape already knew or at least heavily suspected that Lupin was a werewolf. Lily herself even accuses Snape of being obsessed with where Lupin goes every month. The most likely scenario is that Sirius goaded Snape into doing something stupid and Snape took the bait because he saw a chance to expose a classmate’s deeply personal medical condition. And even if we assume that Snape genuinely didn’t know, at the end of the day, he still chose to follow the word of a known enemy who told him to…poke a tree that literally tries to bludgeon anyone who gets close to it because if he could do it, there would be a great big secret on the other side for him to discover.
5. Finally, James “sexually assaulting” Snape. In case anyone needs a reminder, he “assaulted” him using a spell that Snape invented. Now, I’m sure we can all agree that Snape wouldn’t have shared his spells with James, so how do you suppose James learned it? The logical explanation is that he’d seen Snape use it before, on other students and maybe on James himself too, which leads you to wonder how many students Snape sexually assaulted. Sounds to me like a classic case of “what goes around comes around”.