I met Carl Mays and his second wife, Esther, in 1964 at their ranch near Dayville Oregon. My brother and I played catched with a ball that he had just signed for us. In doing so, we roughed up the leather and his signature. Upon Carl seeing us doing this, he laughed and joined in for a three way game of catch. The next day Carl signed an other ball for each of us with the promise we'd never play catch with them. I still have those two baseballs to this day. I remember Carl telling us story of his life but rarely about his baseball career. Esther enjoyed telling stories of inspiration that left a positive impact on my life to this day. I enjoyed their company immensely.
Any interest in selling one of those? He was a distant relative and it would be a really cool gift for my dad, who talks about Carl a ton. I met Bobby Doer in Junction City, I beleive, and he told us stories of him and Carl when they'd hunt in John Day. If you have no interest to sell them, I'd really appreciate at least a picture if possible!!
@@coryfoster6004 I'm not sure I'm ready to sell one of Carl's baseballs. Had a coworker offer me $1,600 back in the early 90's and I decided pretty quickly not to. I can take a picture but not sure if you really want to give me your email address? Carl was a big time hunter, no matter if it was open season or not. He hunt a lot on my grandmother's ranch, Cant/Mascall ranch. Beautiful country in the middle of nowhere.
Some years ago, a bronze plaque memorizing Ray Chapman was found, and properly placed in Heritage Park behind center field at Jacob’s Field (Cleveland). I happened upon it with my wife while visiting the park during gameplay. It tastefully displays not only him, but how the life of a good man transcends the game of baseball. Funny how I remember it but not one detail of the actual game...
I read about this incident in the Babe Ruth biography titled the Big Bam. Carl Mays was the son of a Methodist minister he didn’t smoke drink or chase women into the night. That made him an outsider in baseball culture which is why a lot of players including his teammates didn’t like him and he didn’t like them either. He was a hard case no nonsense pitcher who demanded that hitters stay off the plate. The incident happened during Ray Chapman‘s third at bat of the game. In Chapman’s two previous at bats he bunted twice, once for a sacrifice and once for an out. In his third at bat against Mays the count was one and one and the next pitch hit Chapman Square in the head. The ball rolled towards third and Mays fielded it thinking it was another bunt. When he turned around He saw Chapman trying to get up off the dirt with some blood coming out of his ear, then Chapman collapsed again. It was thought he never saw the ball because he never moved. The first and only time a player died from being hit with a thrown baseball!
Mays and Babe Ruth won 4 WS titles together. They came up with the Red Sox as rookie pitchers in 1915. Boston won the WS that season although neither pitched in that Series. They won two more WS with Boston in 1916 and 1918. Boston traded both of them to the Yankees in 1919 in a fire sale for cash. They subsequently won a WS together with the Yankees in 1923 (though Mays did not pitch that Series, either). Mays finished his career with over 200 wins and ERA of 2.92. He led the AL in wins the year after this incident. The Chapman KBP (killed by pitch) probably caused the Hall of Fame not to induct Mays. Everyone hated Ty Cobb. Mays admittedly threw at Cobb once. Cobb retaliated by throwing his bat at Mays and the benches cleared. So, yes, everyone hated Mays, too.
@@joemarshall4226 I agree with you. MLB brass had suspected him also of gambling on baseball during the Black Sox era scandal. All these collateral events hurt his chances.
Rest in peace? Ray has probably been reborn somewhere by now. No doubt as a player with the "new" Cleveland Indians ( I'll never acknowledge that stupid "G" name).
@@kentduryea1741 Thanks Kent, I'm so tired of people calling them Guardians.. They will forever be the Indians to anyone who aren't offended over nothing.
@@towelman8589 It doesn't offend me personally, but that doesn't mean it's not offensive. I also have a hard time with change, and the Guardians was a poor choice. Blame the new name rather than dying on the hill with the old name.
Well, in addition to keeping the ball visible, the umps are under orders to change the ball waaay more than necessary, even to the point of creating their a supply shortage, because the MLB can then turn around and sell any ball that's been in the game, no matter how insignificantly, as a "Game Ball" and charge a premium to fans and collectors. That's why they go through like 100 - 120 balls per game.
I work in industrial construction, which means I sit through many safety training courses. The thing I remember the most is the saying, "many of the safety rules were written in blood". It's sad that people have to be seriously injured or killed before the governing bodies mandate personal protective equipment (PPE). I had no idea this applied to baseball Great video. Very informative.
I had a chem prof who had worked with nitrates at a refinery. On the day of the lab safety lecture, he brought in the photograph of him wearing the spider webbed safety glasses he wore in the hood when he made a mistake. It made the point and an impression.
so true, it takes a tragedy to get politicians or officials to change anything, then after years of people not getting hurt society forgets why they were there in the first place, then corporate bean counters whine about the "nanny state" and get regulations repealed, until another tragedy... around and around we go... how many times do we hear "tough guy" arm-chair fans whine about sports "getting soft" even tho a pro-football players average life span is 20 years under the average. societies NEED to be regulated.
You’re inspiring me to take action against a dangerous roadway situation that I’ve been too lazy to act on. I frequently drive on a main surface artery that posts a speed increase from 45 to 55 about 500’ BEFORE a traffic light. This is insane since it promotes flooring it just before the light may turn yellow. Then the driver will beat the yellow light rather than screech to a stop. If the opposite way driver starts a left turn having judged that the opposing vehicle is going about 45, it’s a disaster waiting to happen. Tomorrow I will file a plea with WVDOT to move the increased speed limit sign PAST the light. Thank you!
I came across a similar post on my only cruise in the Navy. It went something like, "In the Navy, the safety rules are written in blood " Decades ago when I first saw it on the Bristol County, a tank landing ship (LST), I also felt a sadness that it takes accidents or deaths to move organizations to protect their people from hazards. Some time later, I learned of the U.S. government agency, OSHA. I know many employers dread any contact with the Occupational Safety and Health Administration's inspectors. Maybe that dread has contributed to more attention being given to safety issues and even proactive approaches to guarding individual safety in workplaces over the decades. Thank you for your post and reminding me that we must never take safety for granted.
@@prisonersforprofit: "Societies NEED to be regulated." What a statement in this time of apparent Conservative dominance in politics. I agree. I tend to be more liberal than many of the loud voices railing against Big Government. I recall studying the U.S. Constitution in 7th grade and regret that I am less-informed than the citizens who were naturalized last week. Yet, I do remember a section that says, in effect, that any rights not reserved to the Federal government belong to the States to exercise as they see fit. Of course, at the time, this allowed for slavery. I'm glad the Founding Fathers drafted a dynamic document that could be amended as times change and society matures. Yet, I think we both recognize the element of human nature and that there is a need to restrain folks so no one runs rough shod over anyone else and individuals are protected under the law. I know rules and regulations can be chafing. I am not for Big Government - sprawling bureaucracy that reaches into every aspect of our lives like Big Brother in "1984." However, History shows that we flawed human beings need government to ward against oppression. Ain't it funny: throughout the World, it seems governments are the biggest oppressors of all....
Yep. Even the full face fiberglass jobs from late 50's onwards didn't offer much protection, it was still insane. They basically just protected from cuts, you still felt everything almost as if you were bare faced. The protection level did get much better over time though, and some still wore the things into the '80's like Esposito, Fuhr, Lindbergh. I think the last time one was used in an NHL game was in 1989. I know Robin Lehner tried one out for pre-game warmups once, but he's def crazy. haha Said he wouldn't want to do it again.
The big change for goalies safety was BoomBoom Geoffrion making the slap shot popular in 50's and Bobby Hull (another great slapshotter) in 60's popularizing curved blades. The game Jacques Plante played in NHL when he joined after WW2 was way faster and different than it was in 1959 when he first wore his mask.
Back in that day, they didn't lift the puck so much and there were no curved sticks. They had slap shots, but scored more by ragging around in front of the crease and maybe deflecting a shot with skates and sticks; and most shots from that area were rebounds. Fast forward to the late 60s and early 70s, there are only 2 goalies not wearing masks, Gump Worsely of Minnesota; and Glenn Hall, a goalie for the St. Louis Blues. Boston goalie Gerry Cheevers's mask was festooned with squiggly black lines signifying every time his mask saved him from a scar that he added to his mask with a magic marker. Goalie leg pads were a lot smaller than today as well.
Even on his death bed in 1971 a few days before his passing, Carl Mays kept insisting that he never meant to throw at Chapman during that fateful game. It was just a very sad, unfortunate accident, and it really is unfair to this day that baseball historians & analysts still feel it necessary to paint Mays as a low life scoundrel who savagely looked to bean Chapman intentionally with that pitch ☹. RIP to both great players 😇🧚♂.
No body will say they deliberately try to hurt other player in sport (except combat sport) or they will ban for life , second he just regret the outcome that Chapman Die, but don't felt guild. I dont know about you , a waitress hit her head in table today because I accidentally bump to her , did it deliberate No , did I felt guilt , bloody hell I am. Only psycho don't felt guilt when they hurt someone, let alone kill someone. There is a reason why other player dont like him.
@@anubizz3 Your analysis is extremely faulty and full of holes. First off, there are many instances over just the course of one baseball season where one player will purposely try to hurt another. Have you ever even watched a baseball game from start to finish? Pitchers throw at hitters all the time in retribution cases to "settle the score" - where one team was trying to show up another team. Also, there are brawls which occur between two teams where bullpens empty and punches are being thrown - mostly caused by players being thrown at. What do you think the intent of those punches are? They certainly aren't meant as love taps. Yet, will any player involved in a brawl come out and publicly state that they were intentionally trying to hurt the other ballplayer? Of course not! That's just plain common sense. Next, you erroneously imply that because a lot of other players don't like a certain ballplayer, it's because that ballplayer looks to intentionally hurt others. Wrong Again! Many well-known players over the course of MLB history weren't well liked by their peers, such as Roger Clemens, Bobby Bonilla, Ty Cobb, Jim Rice, Steve Sax and many others, yet none of them ever killed or seriously maimed anybody during the course of a major league ballgame. Those players weren't well liked mostly because of the attitudes they displayed towards their fellow players, and not because they purposefully looked to injure others. Finally, you stated that Mays "regretted the outcome" but didn't feel any guilt, a statement which, in and of itself, makes no sense whatsoever. It's impossible to be regretful about hurting or killing somebody else, and then not feel any guilt about it. So, in effect, you're even admitting yourself that Mays felt bad for what he did. Also, if you would have bothered reading what I wrote in my original comment, you would have seen where I stated that Mays insisted that he didn't throw at Chapman when he was on his deathbed - a few days before he succumbed. Again, common sense would dictate that - at that point - Mays would have absolutely nothing to lose by indicating that he meant to injure Chapman if that had indeed been the case. On a last note, your statement of, and I directly quote: "Only psycho don't felt guilt when they hurt someone, let alone kill someone" is totally idiotic and non-sensical. Suppose somebody is defending a family member from being attacked, or an intruder entered that person's home and that individual had to knife or gun them down in order to protect themselves and the members of their family. Are you now going to state that individual is a psychopath for killing them? Honestly dude, you're the friggin' psychopath if you truly feel that way. Either that, or you're one of those brainwashed liberals currently destroying society with their policy ideals & evil ways.
Only Carl Mays truly knows how he felt after his pitch killed Ray Chapman. The rest of us can only speculate until the end of time whether or not he felt remorse.
@@ericinMN1970 LOL That's an idiotic remark in the sense that you're stating the obvious. Of course nobody knows what truly happened - that's the whole point of the topic being analyzed for discussion in the first place. We're all putting forth our own self perceived observations using educated rationale & deductive reasoning based on the facts of a given situation. This is the same path used by any judicial system anywhere in the world. A bunch of men & women get together as jurors using the process which I described above to determine the innocence or guilt of an accused individual pertaining to a crime that he or she was charged with. If there was somehow a magic crystal ball that they had access to where they could see what actually transpired in a given case, then obviously there would be no need to go thru the whole legal routine to begin with.
@@musicoldies83 Your reply is idiotic in the sense that I didn't comment on what "truly happened". Maybe you need to work on reading and comprehension.
Read it and 5 star reviewed it on Amazon. Great book. They were supposed to make a movie based on Sowell's book, but sadly never happened. Too bad because it's a great human story whether you're a baseball fan or not.
I read it many years ago. It's one of my favorite books on baseball. It inspired me to replay the 1920 American League season using APBA Baseball. The Yankees one my replay, beating out the Indians. Incidentally, Ray Chapman was injured in the replay. I sent him home where he decided to take "retirement".
I was hit in the face , leading off the game ( Columbia vs Harvard), I was on my way to the Baltimore Orioles rookie league. Never made it, that pitch gave me a : linear fracture of my cheekbone, concussion, and a nasal hemorrhage. My toes scrunch up when I see a MLB player get hit anyplace, but particularly the head. God bless both these guys! 😥. I have to say: guys I tear up with your heartfelt replies, thank all of you so much, and God Bless everyone here as well. Please understand I never wanted to put myself front and center. I just wanted everyone to know that I really scrunch up when I see a batter getting hit, especially in the head. Pitchers out there know what they are doing when they throw a pitch behind the hitter. Because batters are taught to back up in the batters box . Again I want to thank everyone here for your amazing responses. God bless you all guys, Joey
You went to the Ivy League and you're hanging around here? I admit, I once got 750 on both parts of the old GRE, but I went to Tier III colleges. I have an excuse.
It's too bad you got hit, but it might have been a "blessing in disguise" because it's probably better you didn't waste your time trying to make it to the majors and, I assume, focused on your career instead. I presume you know that very, few guys in the rookie league ever to AAA let alone the big leagues.
Progressive Field in Cleveland should have been called Chapman field in memory of its former shortstop. The only major league baseball player to die for the game
Absolutely. But the Chapman family would not be able to compete with the corporate giant’s millions they are paying. Unfortunately. Money rules. I wonder if the field even has a memorial like a statue or plaque for him?
Nice film. You put this together perfectly. I love the photos of Mays and Chapman. There's something mesmerizing and sinister about Mays' photo in mid pitch. It's uncanny and it reminds me of a strange piece of art depicting a war dance.
I’ve visited Chapman’s grave living in the Cleveland area. Knew some of the story. Never knew the effect on Baseball U presented here. TY so much Professor. Many Blessings cm 🙏🇺🇸
Old-time Indian and Yankee fans who remembered the Mays/Chapman incident got a second shock on May 7, 1957, when Yankee Gil McDougald, at the plate, lined a pitch back at Indian pitcher Herb Score, hitting Score right in the face. He recovered and returned to pitching, but was never the same afterward, although he denied that the injury was the reason.
Pick up your cross and follow Jesus! The world is quickly headed for destruction, and sooner or later you will have to sit at the judgement seat and give an account for your actions. Belief in messiah alone is not enough to grant you salvation - Matthew 7:21-23, John 3:3, John 3:36 (ESV is the best translation for John 3:36). Call on the name of Jesus and pray for Him to intervene in your life! - Revelation 3:20. Contemplate how the Roman Empire fulfilled the role of the beast from the sea in Revelation 13. Revelation 17 confirms that it is in fact Rome. From this we can conclude that A) Jesus is the Son of God and can predict the future or make it happen, B) The world leaders/nations/governments etc have been conspiring together for the last 3000+ years going back to Babylon and before, C) History as we know it is fake. You don't really need to speculate once you start a relationship with God tho. Can't get a response from God? Fasting can help increase your perception and prayer can help initiate events. God will ignore you if your prayer does not align with His purpose (James 4:3) or if you are approaching Him when "unclean" (Isaiah 1:15, Isaiah 59:2, Micah 3:4). Stop eating food sacrificed to idols (McDonald's, Wendy's etc) stop glorifying yourself on social media or making other images of yourself (Second Commandment), stop gossiping about other people, stop watching obscene content etc and you should get a response. Have a blessed day!
I did a stat comparison one time. Walter Johnson & Carl Mays actually hit batters at a nearly identical rate. Since Walter was a nice likeable guy, and Carl Mays apparently was not, Mays got the reputation as a head hunter, while the Big Train did not.
There could be very different underlying reasons for those rates. One player may have had a control issue, or a particular pitch that tended to move or stay inside. Most of his bean balls might have been to the leg or hand. The other player may have routinely thrown high and inside; a significant number of his bean balls might have been to the upper body or head. So the reputations might be well deserved, even though the very simple math that you've done can't identify a difference.
@TheBatugan, or it could also be that Johnson had over 3500 K's while Mays had about 860 K's. 417 wins compared to 207 wins, it's not about being likeable, it's about who was the dominant pitcher period.
I love watching submarine pitchers go to work. In fact, I will tune into certain ballgames just to see a submarine or a knuckleball pitcher. I also wish someone like Ricky Henderson existed. The game today is exciting, but certain baseball arts are in repose.
After the deadly pitch, Carl Mays played nine more seasons in the major leagues and was highly effective when healthy. He won 27 games in 1921 and contributed to the Yankees pennant winning seasons in 1921 and 1922. One can make the argument for Carl Mays' inclusion in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
"Contributed"? He was one of the worst pitchers in the league in 1923 at 5-2 with a 6.20 ERA and he didn't even pitch in that world series. Seems like you're grasping at straws there and being a little disingenuous by even bothering to include his presence on that team without mentioning how terrible he was on that '23 team. I agree, his stats were very good when he was healthy but he stopped being healthy after 1922 and could only manage 2 full seasons out of 7 after that. The case for him being HOFamer is pretty thin in my opinion, though he did get 2.8% of the vote in 1958 so.... he's got that going for him.
Good point about 1923 (I just edited my pinned comment). I will say, however, Mays had two stellar seasons with Cinncinnati and retired from baseball with a 51.2 lifetime WAR. There are plenty of HOF pitchers with less impressive stats.
@@thebaseballprofessor You're probably right about the hall of fame stuff though. He was kinda sorta unofficially black-listed for a couple things. The Chapman thing, people thought he had a hand in throwing a world series and they say he was just a generally unpleasant person who shared little in common with his teammates outside of baseball. After looking at his contemporaries' career stats his numbers line up fairly well even when you consider how much time he missed after the '22 season. He was also a pretty good hitter, I think his career average was around .270 and they would use him as a pinch hitter sometimes on his off days.
Funny to think it was ok for them to spit over a ball which would be touched & fielded by other players. Just think of all those players rubbing their fingers all over their teammates spit. Weird...
@@billb3414 the infielders were in on it too. They would spit tobacco juice or licorice juice into their gloves, and rub it on the ball. New balls were rarely taken out of play, and the game in question it was dusk and cloudy. Bill James wrote about it in a number of his books. Chapman likely never saw it till it was too late.
Gotta say this is my favorite baseball channel ! Thank u for the in depth history !!!!! My favorite players ( to many to list but the to tier are :) mickey mantle , Nolan Ryan ,cal ripken Jr, Rickey Henderson , Greg maddux , Mike musina , Reggie Jackson , and Tony Gwen / Kirby Puckett (tied). I enjoyed the Nolan Ryan back history I saw and hope to see others on my favorite players ! Keep up the great work !!!! I'm trying to keep up with sports again now that my life is allowing the time again. I hope to play catch with my toddler son when his motor skills develop better. 😅
Having been to MLB games for the past 45 years, the one thing that surprises me is that more fans haven't been killed by foul balls. My god, some of the foul balls go into the stands at over 100 MPH. Us baseball fans know some situations: left handed hitter- can slice a line drive foul ball to the left side over the third base dougout. If that ball hits you in the head when you're not looking....... Anyways, good luck everybody!
People don't care about the games and they don't pay attention, that's why they put up the screens down the lines. Can't catch a ball now. I think it sucks.
Yeats ago...ca 1976 or 77 I knew a girl who had the worst crush on Bucky Dent. Went to the stadium one night just to see him in action...she met him...but not the way she wanted to...she gitbhitbin the face when his bat flew out of his hand and hit her in the face broke a bone...or two...he was a standup guy...went to the hospital and apologized..she. despite her injuries was thrilled...
That's how the story goes. But it wasn't just any infielder... In fact, it was the pitcher (Carl Mays) that fielded the ball. But just like any historical moment, we don't know for sure if this is all true. Carl Mays must've been stupid if he didn't realize the person he pitched the ball to fell to the ground. This leads me to believe the fielding part of the story is fake.
@@billb3414 If you pause the video @ 1:42 and look at the newspaper accounts from the next day, they say Mays was the one who fielded it and threw it to first.
@@billb3414 The only stupid idiot here is you. If a pitcher hears a 'crack', he's looking for the ball. Not at the batter. You are a loser. LooHOOhooHOOhooSER!
@@billb3414 i would guess nearly every pitcher i've ever seen deliver the ball didn't have their eyes on the catcher/batter through a significant portion of their post-release movement. this video made the remark that the the collision of the ball with the batter's skull was loud and resembled the crack of a bat (i dont remember for sure about his last bit, i might have made that up). if you went through a motion and rotated away from the batter, and heard the report of the bat while you rotated, and then saw the ball rolling on the field, i could see fielding it and throwing out the batter. if that was me, i'm guessing the thing that would have stopped me was aiming for a throw to 1st but not seeing a runner.
It’s amazing that this man’s death did not much to add safety to baseball but rather introduced the live ball era to Major League Baseball, giving us legends like Babe Ruth, Lou Geihrig, and Rogers Hornsby to cheer on and watch what would have been impossible a year earlier with dirty doctored baseballs.
I'm Australian and have never had any particular interest in baseball (I'm a cricket man), but I watched the Ken Burns Baseball documentary series and absolutely loved it. This incident was brilliantly covered in that series but this was a deeper dive into it. Thank you.
Mays was my great great great (great? Maybe? Cant remember how many) grandfather. Have some cool photos of him. I met Bobby Doer before he passed away, he is a HOF Red Sox player that played with Mays and he lived in Oregon, where I live, and he told us stories of him and Carl Mays hunting in John Day, Eastern Oregon. Bobby also told me how he would always cast a vote to induct Carl Mays into the HOF given he was a phenomenal pitcher, but with Bobby passing away, it's likely Mays will never get in. There's also a family story of a great great grandmother that played with Babe Ruth's daughter underneath Yankee stadium. Not sure if it is true, but it's been told around the family for ever. Carl also lost the vast majority of his wealth during the great depression and he had an unrivaled hatred for Ty Cobb, who felt the same about Mays.
@@joemarshall4226 They were great friends. They often hunted in eastern Oregon together, I remember a story he told where they both tagged a buck in the same season, and I think the same day. He was an advocate to put Mays in the HOF, so he truley appreciated him and others talk about how nice Mays was as well!
@@coryfoster6004 The best way to judge a pitcher's career is by his ERA+ and the number of inning he pitched. Carl had a 119 ERA+ (19% better than the average pitcher), and he pitched just over 3000 innings. Similar toe David Cone and Jimmy Key who had similar ERA+ numbers (121 and 123) but fewer innings pitched (2898 and just over 2500) Their ERA+ numbers are higher than the following pitchers: Bert Blyleven, Gaylord Perry, Catfish Hunter, Phil Neikro, Jim Bunning, Steve Carlton,Warren Spahn (119 also), Dennis Eckersley, Red Ruffing, Jack Morris, Pud Galvin, Don Sutton, Jim Kaat, Jesse Haines, Jack Chesbro, Nolan Ryan, Chief Bender, Waite Hoyt,Robin Roberts, Candy Cummings, Eppa Rixey, Ferguson Jenkins, Vic Willis, Ted Lyons and Tom Glavine....now some of these pitchers had way more IP, but some had fewer, so there's a case for Carl as a borderline Candidate for the Hall of Fame.
The pinch runner who came in for Chapman would score the winning run of the game. Cleveland then got hot and went on to win the AL pennant that year by two games over the White Sox and three over the Yankees. They then went on to win the World Series over the Brooklyn Robbins 5 games to 2. (The series was a best of nine that year.) I remember when players started wearing head protection in the 1960's. Many players felt it was unmanly, but eventually saw the sense of it. Some wore protective caps under their baseball caps. Others had the hard protective helmet, but without the ear flap.
@@MikeCee7 No. As I recall reading, Chapman lived through the night and died early the next morning. So no one realized the injury was fatal. Mays did turn himself into the police after hearing Chapman died, but the DA ruled it an accidental homicide, and there were no criminal charges.
As a cricket player and fan I can see the parallels in our sports. Back in day batters had no helmets and fast bowlers would, and still do, routinely bowl at the batters head. As far as I know, there have been two instances where batters have been killed in this way.
If you ever hold a baseball and a cricket ball you notice the difference. Baseballs are rock hard verses the cricket ball which is softer and more giving. At least the cricket ball that I have held. I grew up on baseball.
In the wee wee early 1980’s, I broke my arm. As I waited in the emergency room a kid came in by ambulance. He had gotten hit in the mouth, which pushed his braces up into his mouth. Why they had not given him painkillers is beyond me, and to make it worse they had to wait on a dental surgeon. Poor guy was in so much pain.
Man this is great footage. Mays really went down low to fling his pitches. I knew he was a submarine pitcher and always had the curiosity of what his motion was like. Well, a mystery no more but damn I can see why Chapman never saw the pitch coming.
Dan Quisenberry from the Kansas City Royals was the same submarine style pitcher and was hard to hit off. I always wondered how different the damage to your elbow was for a submarine style pitcher versus a regular overhand. I think overhand pitcher would have more shoulder rotator cuff , upper arm issues and a submarine pitcher would probably have more issues in the elbow but that's just my opinion I'm sure there's some kind of damage after 10 to 12 years of pitching that style at 95 to 98 mph regularly
@@mikejacobs2886 Once the base salary for a ballplayer went over a million per, I stopped worrying the wear and tear. Quisenberry died of brain cancer at the age of 45. Obviously not baseball related. Looking at the pictures, I seriously doubt he used steroids.
@@anonymike8280 No he was definitely not using steroids. I'm not sure that steroids were even around in the early 80's. Strange that Quisenberry died of a brain tumor. I know that the Rpyals head coach of Quisenberry ( Dick Howser) also died from a brain tumor in 1985. 1 year after Quisenberry.
@@mikejacobs2886 Steroids have been around since at least the 1930s. purified testosterone since the 1890s, crude testosterone earlier than that. Then there's the expedient of mountain oysters. Braise lightly, chew thoroughly. However, Quisenberry was in no way built like a steroid user. Ballplayers from the 50s and 60s knew about steroids but they were not widely available. They used greenies and white crosses (amphetamines). These did not make you a better athlete like steroids will, but there is much to be said for staying alert and avoiding creeping weight gain. One of the effects of PED use is enhanced performance. When you see enhanced performance, unfortunately, you have to consider the possibility of PED use. That's not just today, but going way back. I suspect, but cannot prove, that extreme consistency from year year is another possible indication of PED use, especially if performance does not fall off past the early 30s. Athletes have always sought an edge and their psychology is that there achievements are earned even they cheat. One of the few who ever was honest was Jose Canseco. He straight out said once, without steroids he wouldn't even have been in the big leagues.
@@anonymike8280 Wow those are some interesting facts, thank you for sharing that. I know alot of synthetic drugs were have now were originally Parr of the early German chemists. Germany actually synthesized Amphetamines to keep their soldiers alert. All you need to see about steroids is to look at Barry Bonds before and after. So obvious. Huge muscular gain. Thanks for the information.
Merci for this. I went to our Swiss sports ground and heard the crack of the baseball, so headed over to watch. The school had their electives Gym class on the baseball diamong throwing and batting. I tried to give some pointers at the young men. They didn't care to listen. One kid was standing facing the pitcher and tried to slash at the ball. His teacher had told him to turn with his side, but he didn't care. The trouble is that they teach baseball and not softball, and even girls are enrolled. Western Switzerland is not a breeding ground for baseball talent.
You can’t blame Carl Mays. In the time he played, balls weren’t changed every pitch like today. Batters wore no protective helmets. Pitchers threw spitballs, some players (Ty Cobb)sharpened their spikes, batters used corked bats, etc. Tony Conigliaro was hit in the head in the ‘60’s, & it ended his career. That’s when they began wearing helmets with side shields. Same types of things happened in football too, & the gear they wear now is like armor compared to what they wore way back in those early times.
You should do a video about Adam Greenberg. The Cubs player who was hit in the head and ended his career with only one at bat. Even though he tried a comeback later he was never able to play the game fully.
ruth taking a cross step into his swing is crazy. was his timing just that good or pitchers timing that predictable. i think for sure they throw at someones head if they take a cross step like that these days. that makes wild crazy power
Pitchers wouldn't throw at a batter's head if they did a cross-step, they would simply change the timing of their delivery and make the batter look foolish
Loved the history of this pitch by Carl Mays that changed the game of baseball forever as you tell it. You yourself are a great story teller, a professional historian, who as you say does baseball history for fun. I also like that you site your sources on screen in your videos. My only addition to your story would be that Ray Chapman more than crowded the plate while hitting. “Ray Chapman hugged plate so closely when he batted that his head was usually in the strike zone.” Source: 20th Century Baseball Chronicle, 1992. This in no way dimensions your video or history of this pitch in 1920 that forever changed baseball. My dad bought that book for me at Cooperstown in ‘92. I was so intrigued by your video I pulled it off my bookshelf and read about it. Fascinating history. Foreign substances placed on baseballs were forbidden that year. More importantly just as you tell the story clean baseballs were mandatory during the game because of the unfortunate death of Chapman. Now to watch the rest of your baseball video. Can’t wait to see the 1950’s as low point for MLB. Thanks for getting me to reread a book I always treasured given to me by late father, a man who loved baseball.
Also kind of crazy to consider they didn’t think of batters wearing any sort of head protection like a helmet especially since during the dead ball era pitches were more erratic with their movement and harder to see.
Pick up your cross and follow Jesus! The world is quickly headed for destruction, and sooner or later you will have to sit at the judgement seat and give an account for your actions. Belief in messiah alone is not enough to grant you salvation - Matthew 7:21-23, John 3:3, John 3:36 (ESV is the best translation for John 3:36). Call on the name of Jesus and pray for Him to intervene in your life! - Revelation 3:20. Contemplate how the Roman Empire fulfilled the role of the beast from the sea in Revelation 13. Revelation 17 confirms that it is in fact Rome. From this we can conclude that A) Jesus is the Son of God and can predict the future or make it happen, B) The world leaders/nations/governments etc have been conspiring together for the last 3000+ years going back to Babylon and before, C) History as we know it is fake. You don't really need to speculate once you start a relationship with God tho. Can't get a response from God? Fasting can help increase your perception and prayer can help initiate events. God will ignore you if your prayer does not align with His purpose (James 4:3) or if you are approaching Him when "unclean" (Isaiah 1:15, Isaiah 59:2, Micah 3:4). Stop eating food sacrificed to idols (McDonald's, Wendy's etc) stop glorifying yourself on social media or making other images of yourself (Second Commandment), stop gossiping about other people, stop watching obscene content etc and you should get a response. Have a blessed day!
I had a friend that was catching at Ohio State in the 1900s, the pitcher hit a batter in the chest and he died on the spot. The pitcher and catcher walked off and never played another game again. My friend became a doctor.
Ok everyone so the way this is phrased makes it sound like this commenter was the same age as his friend. But I've become friends with people 50+ years older than me, mostly through my jobs in restaurants. You befriend regulars no matter their age. So his friend was probably in their 20's in the 1900's and if they lived to 80 they would have been alive in the through the 60's. And if the commenter was in his 20's or 30's at that time then he would be in his late 70's or 80's now. Definitely feasible. Probably unlikely, but not technically impossible.
@@piercehubbard4086 Nice sarcasm. Almost got me. You could so easily get folks by telling them your folks are so old they were born in the 1900s. If you are 23+ then you could say that about yourself.
I just read up on Mickey Mantle a while a go. Came across something called the batter's eye. That patch of greenery or dark colored seating right behind the center field such that the batter can see the ball. I didn't recall when it came out but I'm sure this incident was influential.
Dr. Harold Klawans, in his book "Why Michael Couldn't Hit and Other Tales of the Neurology of Sport," offers a brief analysis of the fatal pitch, explaining that Chapman never really saw the pitch because the visual cells that saw the submarine delivery hadn't learned to trigger any reflexes.
Interesting thought process. "Someone got killed by getting nailed in the head with a pitch. Should we make everyone wear protective headgear?" "Nah, let's just make the ball easier to see so they can move out of the way." Apparently it helped a little?
I have to think that not requiring helmets might also have been that they probably would have been made of heavy, padded leather or of metal. Not very comfortable. The lightweight plastic helmet didn't exist at the time.
Ever see Ted Abernathy's (the late 60s /early 70s) submarine curve? Three foot horizontal curve. The epitome of the high school curve ball. All horizontal break and no vertical movement. Terrorized rookies. Veterans hit them into the cheap seats.
@@cougar2013 It’s stunning to me , if not arrogant on the part of MLB , that it took , what..almost 50 blankety blank years for MLB to wake up to the danger of a rock coming to within a very few inches of your head; that could kill you , before they FINALLY started with helmets ??!! And R.I.P. ✝️ Tony Conigliaro a great guy and a great team player of the Boston Red Sox, who died in 1990, - he was hit in the face by a fastball in 1967, and suffered from the effects of this until his untimely passing at the young age of 45. BTW, why were all the baseball columnists and radio announcers silent and ineffective , during all those long years ? !
I’m confused by the Babe Ruth reference… Was the change in the number of Ruth’s homers that year bigger than the average change for other players//teams?
there's at least one submariner that throws a pretty crazy fastball that actually has an upwards trajectory, and quite a few sidearmed pitchers, albeit relievers for the most part. It's just hard to throw that way for long and I think you also tend to lose velocity, which isn't ideal in a sport where 100+ MPH fastballs and 90+MPH breaking balls exist. As a reliever it seems better since you can use your weirdness to mess folks up and they don't have time to adjust, and you don't mess your arm up in the process
I was no pro, but I was a 3/4 arm angle pitcher, with a sidearm sinker and running fastball as well as an occasional submarine 4-seamer. My changing arm angles and resulting different movement on the ball were the only reason I kept people off my 80mph fastball and lackluster curve. After 3 innings, I was out of tricks.
Another change resulting from this incident was that centerfield fences have no advertisements and are painted green. This allows the batter to better see the ball as it’s delivered. Not sure when the change was made or if it was directly in response to Chapman’s death, but player safety became a higher priority after 1920.
@@jonlanier_ don't forget about hockey. helmets for players entering the league in 1979. still no rule for goalie masks. had to look it up. nobody wore a helmet and some would wear a mask when I was a kid.
I pitched in Little League and threw a fastball that sent another kid to the hospital in a coma. He survived but I was so shaken afterwards that I was afraid to pitch and switched to outfield. The pitch was estimated at 68 mph.
This is what made us transition from the dead ball to the live ball Era. Even though you look guys like Ruth and ty cobb the numbers they put up during the dead Era is still mind blowing.
3:07 that is an excellent clip of Babe Ruth's swing. It looks like he's got a "walking" batter's stance. That's the first time I've ever seen that. Maybe it was one technique of his power?
I appreciated this clip of Babe’s swing as well. So, he takes a side/forward step and then into the pitch he swings. I couldn’t imagine that technique garnering any success in todays baseball. Or, am I wrong?
The thing is, you have to start your swing before the ball is released in pro ball if its a fast ball. Part of the batters swing calculations are based on the pitchers body motions. Having a dirty ball will make the final calculation harder though.
I was once hit in the head with a 90 MPH whiffle ball in the Wiffle Ball All-Star game. I lost my memory for 20 years and had to learn how to walk and talk again.
I'd love to regale you all with my tale of being beaned with a bowling ball, but I promised my shrink I would never speak of it again nor my experiences 6 years as Marilyn Monroe's personal sommolier.
Mays won 200+ games. What kept him out of the HOF was suspicions he threw World Series games in 1921. Miller Huggins said he would help any former ballplayer in need - except Carl Mays. He'd spit on Mays if he saw him sitting on a curb.
There were lots of less than standup players in the early 1900s. A lot of pitchers threw at batters, especially those who crowded the plate. Chapman had bunted in 2 previous at bats. I think he threw the pitch high and tight to make it harder for Chapman to attempt another bunt. Dirty ball late afternoon, it's no durprise Chspman didn't yrybto duck the pitch. I think Mays took a lot of crap for nothing more than an accident. He won 205 gsmes snd his win percentsge was .622, and he's not in the HoF, but others with similar stats are.
@@tomsmith5216 Being incredibly dislikable and killing someone has a cost. He should not be in the HoF based on the current standards even if they are implemented fickly. PEDs are significantly less awful than what he did but is more than enough to keep better players out.
Fred Lieb was a noted baseball scorer, historian, and writer; his book "Baseball As I Have Known It" covers over 70 years of his observations. I just looked it up. He said Tillinghaust Huston, the owner of the Yankees during the 1920s, was in Florida one year with Wilbert Robinson and some other executives, and after a bout of drinking rum and Coca-cola, Huston tried to share a story with Lieb, but Robinson kept interfering. At last, the story came out: Huston said that Mays threw games in both the 1921 and 1922 Series. There also was an actor who independently shared this information with Lieb: that Mays's wife was signaling him with a white handkerchief from the stands that the fix was on (in cash). When Lieb researched the results of the innings in question, it was clear that the NY Giants had suddenly found themselves getting base hits whereupon before, they were unable to get anything against Mays.
The last baseball game I ever played was once I was 15 and took a fastball directly to the temple and got a concussion. That was the last pitch I ever took. I'm 43 now and until I watched this video I've been telling myself for decades "how could i have not seen the ball?" It always bothered me how I saw the pitcher go through his motion and I remember thinking "where's the ball?" right before it hit me in the head. Watching this video makes me feel a little better that a professional also didn't see a dirty ball on a bad weather day.
Walter Johnson hit batters more often than Carl Mays. Carl Mays hit 89 batters over a career that produced 3021 innings. That's one HBP every 34 innings. Walter Johnson hit 205 batters in 5914 innings. That's one HBP every 29 innings. Over the first half of Johnson's career, 3148 innings, he hit 113 batters - one every 28 innings. The Big Train hit batters more often than Carl Mays did. Walter Johnson had a reputation as a gentleman. Mays had a reputation as a surly man, described as having the disposition of 'a man with a toothache'. That may be a big factor in how history has treated the two men.
I met Carl Mays and his second wife, Esther, in 1964 at their ranch near Dayville Oregon. My brother and I played catched with a ball that he had just signed for us. In doing so, we roughed up the leather and his signature. Upon Carl seeing us doing this, he laughed and joined in for a three way game of catch. The next day Carl signed an other ball for each of us with the promise we'd never play catch with them. I still have those two baseballs to this day. I remember Carl telling us story of his life but rarely about his baseball career. Esther enjoyed telling stories of inspiration that left a positive impact on my life to this day. I enjoyed their company immensely.
Any interest in selling one of those? He was a distant relative and it would be a really cool gift for my dad, who talks about Carl a ton. I met Bobby Doer in Junction City, I beleive, and he told us stories of him and Carl when they'd hunt in John Day. If you have no interest to sell them, I'd really appreciate at least a picture if possible!!
@@coryfoster6004
I'm not sure I'm ready to sell one of Carl's baseballs. Had a coworker offer me $1,600 back in the early 90's and I decided pretty quickly not to.
I can take a picture but not sure if you really want to give me your email address?
Carl was a big time hunter, no matter if it was open season or not. He hunt a lot on my grandmother's ranch, Cant/Mascall ranch. Beautiful country in the middle of nowhere.
I love these kinda things, especially growing up in Oregon, also a baseball fan, and a believer. Thank you for sharing!
Yea and I'm the president of the United States of America.
@@HeatherRadcliffe-pb1vj- Congratulations Mr. Biden. Get back to work
Some years ago, a bronze plaque memorizing Ray Chapman was found, and properly placed in Heritage Park behind center field at Jacob’s Field (Cleveland). I happened upon it with my wife while visiting the park during gameplay. It tastefully displays not only him, but how the life of a good man transcends the game of baseball. Funny how I remember it but not one detail of the actual game...
Let's hope Ray Chapman never made a racist comment or his plaque will be removed.
He's buried at Lakeview Cemetery not far the President Garfield, the Jacobs brothers, Elliot Ness and his Son, and John Rockefeller
@@mikelmart lmao
@@PolishX Who are the Jacobs Borthers?
Jacobs brothers owned the Indians in the 90"s
I read about this incident in the Babe Ruth biography titled the Big Bam. Carl Mays was the son of a Methodist minister he didn’t smoke drink or chase women into the night. That made him an outsider in baseball culture which is why a lot of players including his teammates didn’t like him and he didn’t like them either. He was a hard case no nonsense pitcher who demanded that hitters stay off the plate. The incident happened during Ray Chapman‘s third at bat of the game. In Chapman’s two previous at bats he bunted twice, once for a sacrifice and once for an out. In his third at bat against Mays the count was one and one and the next pitch hit Chapman Square in the head. The ball rolled towards third and Mays fielded it thinking it was another bunt. When he turned around He saw Chapman trying to get up off the dirt with some blood coming out of his ear, then Chapman collapsed again. It was thought he never saw the ball because he never moved. The first and only time a player died from being hit with a thrown baseball!
Good info
Wow
Thanks.
Wow...such a sad story...
@Glennsten Bergkvist I was young but I was at the game! Lol 😆
Mays and Babe Ruth won 4 WS titles together. They came up with the Red Sox as rookie pitchers in 1915. Boston won the WS that season although neither pitched in that Series. They won two more WS with Boston in 1916 and 1918. Boston traded both of them to the Yankees in 1919 in a fire sale for cash. They subsequently won a WS together with the Yankees in 1923 (though Mays did not pitch that Series, either).
Mays finished his career with over 200 wins and ERA of 2.92. He led the AL in wins the year after this incident.
The Chapman KBP (killed by pitch) probably caused the Hall of Fame not to induct Mays.
Everyone hated Ty Cobb. Mays admittedly threw at Cobb once. Cobb retaliated by throwing his bat at Mays and the benches cleared. So, yes, everyone hated Mays, too.
No one liked Mays he was a grouch not even his own teammates
Cobb threw his bat at him lol
The guys lucky Cobb didn't shoot him.
Mays was a great pitcher.....should have been in the HOF
@@joemarshall4226 I agree with you. MLB brass had suspected him also of gambling on baseball during the Black Sox era scandal. All these collateral events hurt his chances.
Very informative. So that's why the umps keep changing the baseballs every other pitch. RIP Ray Chapman.
Rest in peace? Ray has probably been reborn somewhere by now. No doubt as a player with the "new" Cleveland Indians ( I'll never acknowledge that stupid "G" name).
@@kentduryea1741 Thanks Kent, I'm so tired of people calling them Guardians.. They will forever be the Indians to anyone who aren't offended over nothing.
@@towelman8589 It doesn't offend me personally, but that doesn't mean it's not offensive. I also have a hard time with change, and the Guardians was a poor choice. Blame the new name rather than dying on the hill with the old name.
Well, in addition to keeping the ball visible, the umps are under orders to change the ball waaay more than necessary, even to the point of creating their a supply shortage, because the MLB can then turn around and sell any ball that's been in the game, no matter how insignificantly, as a "Game Ball" and charge a premium to fans and collectors. That's why they go through like 100 - 120 balls per game.
RIP to everyone else playing in the league at that time too lol
I work in industrial construction, which means I sit through many safety training courses. The thing I remember the most is the saying, "many of the safety rules were written in blood". It's sad that people have to be seriously injured or killed before the governing bodies mandate personal protective equipment (PPE). I had no idea this applied to baseball Great video. Very informative.
I had a chem prof who had worked with nitrates at a refinery. On the day of the lab safety lecture, he brought in the photograph of him wearing the spider webbed safety glasses he wore in the hood when he made a mistake. It made the point and an impression.
so true, it takes a tragedy to get politicians or officials to change anything, then after years of people not getting hurt society forgets why they were there in the first place, then corporate bean counters whine about the "nanny state" and get regulations repealed, until another tragedy... around and around we go...
how many times do we hear "tough guy" arm-chair fans whine about sports "getting soft" even tho a pro-football players average life span is 20 years under the average. societies NEED to be regulated.
You’re inspiring me to take action against a dangerous roadway situation that I’ve been too lazy to act on.
I frequently drive on a main surface artery that posts a speed increase from 45 to 55 about 500’ BEFORE a traffic light.
This is insane since it promotes flooring it just before the light may turn yellow. Then the driver will beat the yellow light rather than screech to a stop. If the opposite way driver starts a left turn having judged that the opposing vehicle is going about 45, it’s a disaster waiting to happen.
Tomorrow I will file a plea with WVDOT to move the increased speed limit sign PAST the light.
Thank you!
I came across a similar post on my only cruise in the Navy. It went something like, "In the Navy, the safety rules are written in blood "
Decades ago when I first saw it on the Bristol County, a tank landing ship (LST), I also felt a sadness that it takes accidents or deaths to move organizations to protect their people from hazards.
Some time later, I learned of the U.S. government agency, OSHA. I know many employers dread any contact with the Occupational Safety and Health Administration's inspectors. Maybe that dread has contributed to more attention being given to safety issues and even proactive approaches to guarding individual safety in workplaces over the decades.
Thank you for your post and reminding me that we must never take safety for granted.
@@prisonersforprofit: "Societies NEED to be regulated." What a statement in this time of apparent Conservative dominance in politics. I agree.
I tend to be more liberal than many of the loud voices railing against Big Government. I recall studying the U.S. Constitution in 7th grade and regret that I am less-informed than the citizens who were naturalized last week.
Yet, I do remember a section that says, in effect, that any rights not reserved to the Federal government belong to the States to exercise as they see fit. Of course, at the time, this allowed for slavery. I'm glad the Founding Fathers drafted a dynamic document that could be amended as times change and society matures.
Yet, I think we both recognize the element of human nature and that there is a need to restrain folks so no one runs rough shod over anyone else and individuals are protected under the law.
I know rules and regulations can be chafing. I am not for Big Government - sprawling bureaucracy that reaches into every aspect of our lives like Big Brother in "1984."
However, History shows that we flawed human beings need government to ward against oppression. Ain't it funny: throughout the World, it seems governments are the biggest oppressors of all....
Hockey goaltenders use to play without masks. That was pure insanity.
Yep. Even the full face fiberglass jobs from late 50's onwards didn't offer much protection, it was still insane. They basically just protected from cuts, you still felt everything almost as if you were bare faced. The protection level did get much better over time though, and some still wore the things into the '80's like Esposito, Fuhr, Lindbergh. I think the last time one was used in an NHL game was in 1989. I know Robin Lehner tried one out for pre-game warmups once, but he's def crazy. haha Said he wouldn't want to do it again.
Unfortunately, the “macho” pressure in sports always has been there. Many athletes feared ridicule if they attempted to wear protective gear.
The big change for goalies safety was BoomBoom Geoffrion making the slap shot popular in 50's and Bobby Hull (another great slapshotter) in 60's popularizing curved blades.
The game Jacques Plante played in NHL when he joined after WW2 was way faster and different than it was in 1959 when he first wore his mask.
Back in that day, they didn't lift the puck so much and there were no curved sticks. They had slap shots, but scored more by ragging around in front of the crease and maybe deflecting a shot with skates and sticks; and most shots from that area were rebounds. Fast forward to the late 60s and early 70s, there are only 2 goalies not wearing masks, Gump Worsely of Minnesota; and Glenn Hall, a goalie for the St. Louis Blues. Boston goalie Gerry Cheevers's mask was festooned with squiggly black lines signifying every time his mask saved him from a scar that he added to his mask with a magic marker.
Goalie leg pads were a lot smaller than today as well.
@@ronaldviens7862 I actually have a reproduction of that mask
Even on his death bed in 1971 a few days before his passing, Carl Mays kept insisting that he never meant to throw at Chapman during that fateful game. It was just a very sad, unfortunate accident, and it really is unfair to this day that baseball historians & analysts still feel it necessary to paint Mays as a low life scoundrel who savagely looked to bean Chapman intentionally with that pitch ☹. RIP to both great players 😇🧚♂.
No body will say they deliberately try to hurt other player in sport (except combat sport) or they will ban for life , second he just regret the outcome that Chapman Die, but don't felt guild.
I dont know about you , a waitress hit her head in table today because I accidentally bump to her , did it deliberate No , did I felt guilt , bloody hell I am. Only psycho don't felt guilt when they hurt someone, let alone kill someone.
There is a reason why other player dont like him.
@@anubizz3 Your analysis is extremely faulty and full of holes. First off, there are many instances over just the course of one baseball season where one player will purposely try to hurt another. Have you ever even watched a baseball game from start to finish? Pitchers throw at hitters all the time in retribution cases to "settle the score" - where one team was trying to show up another team. Also, there are brawls which occur between two teams where bullpens empty and punches are being thrown - mostly caused by players being thrown at. What do you think the intent of those punches are? They certainly aren't meant as love taps. Yet, will any player involved in a brawl come out and publicly state that they were intentionally trying to hurt the other ballplayer? Of course not! That's just plain common sense.
Next, you erroneously imply that because a lot of other players don't like a certain ballplayer, it's because that ballplayer looks to intentionally hurt others. Wrong Again! Many well-known players over the course of MLB history weren't well liked by their peers, such as Roger Clemens, Bobby Bonilla, Ty Cobb, Jim Rice, Steve Sax and many others, yet none of them ever killed or seriously maimed anybody during the course of a major league ballgame. Those players weren't well liked mostly because of the attitudes they displayed towards their fellow players, and not because they purposefully looked to injure others.
Finally, you stated that Mays "regretted the outcome" but didn't feel any guilt, a statement which, in and of itself, makes no sense whatsoever. It's impossible to be regretful about hurting or killing somebody else, and then not feel any guilt about it. So, in effect, you're even admitting yourself that Mays felt bad for what he did. Also, if you would have bothered reading what I wrote in my original comment, you would have seen where I stated that Mays insisted that he didn't throw at Chapman when he was on his deathbed - a few days before he succumbed. Again, common sense would dictate that - at that point - Mays would have absolutely nothing to lose by indicating that he meant to injure Chapman if that had indeed been the case.
On a last note, your statement of, and I directly quote: "Only psycho don't felt guilt when they hurt someone, let alone kill someone" is totally idiotic and non-sensical. Suppose somebody is defending a family member from being attacked, or an intruder entered that person's home and that individual had to knife or gun them down in order to protect themselves and the members of their family. Are you now going to state that individual is a psychopath for killing them? Honestly dude, you're the friggin' psychopath if you truly feel that way. Either that, or you're one of those brainwashed liberals currently destroying society with their policy ideals & evil ways.
Only Carl Mays truly knows how he felt after his pitch killed Ray Chapman. The rest of us can only speculate until the end of time whether or not he felt remorse.
@@ericinMN1970 LOL That's an idiotic remark in the sense that you're stating the obvious. Of course nobody knows what truly happened - that's the whole point of the topic being analyzed for discussion in the first place. We're all putting forth our own self perceived observations using educated rationale & deductive reasoning based on the facts of a given situation. This is the same path used by any judicial system anywhere in the world. A bunch of men & women get together as jurors using the process which I described above to determine the innocence or guilt of an accused individual pertaining to a crime that he or she was charged with. If there was somehow a magic crystal ball that they had access to where they could see what actually transpired in a given case, then obviously there would be no need to go thru the whole legal routine to begin with.
@@musicoldies83 Your reply is idiotic in the sense that I didn't comment on what "truly happened". Maybe you need to work on reading and comprehension.
There are plenty of aspects to this story that are heartbreaking. A good book on this topic is The Pitch That Killed by Mike Sowell. I recommend it.
Read it and 5 star reviewed it on Amazon. Great book.
They were supposed to make a movie based on Sowell's book, but sadly never happened. Too bad because it's a great human story whether you're a baseball fan or not.
I read it many years ago. It's one of my favorite books on baseball. It inspired me to replay the 1920 American League season using APBA Baseball. The Yankees one my replay, beating out the Indians. Incidentally, Ray Chapman was injured in the replay. I sent him home where he decided to take "retirement".
Always sad everytime I hear about Ray Chapman.
I was hit in the face , leading off the game ( Columbia vs Harvard), I was on my way to the Baltimore Orioles rookie league. Never made it, that pitch gave me a : linear fracture of my cheekbone, concussion, and a nasal hemorrhage. My toes scrunch up when I see a MLB player get hit anyplace, but particularly the head. God bless both these guys! 😥. I have to say: guys I tear up with your heartfelt replies, thank all of you so much, and God Bless everyone here as well. Please understand I never wanted to put myself front and center. I just wanted everyone to know that I really scrunch up when I see a batter getting hit, especially in the head. Pitchers out there know what they are doing when they throw a pitch behind the hitter. Because batters are taught to back up in the batters box . Again I want to thank everyone here for your amazing responses. God bless you all guys, Joey
Oh good lord man 😦😵💫
You went to the Ivy League and you're hanging around here? I admit, I once got 750 on both parts of the old GRE, but I went to Tier III colleges. I have an excuse.
@@anonymike8280 I live in Cleveland sir, that is where I am from. Hanging around maybe.
@@joeylocognato2198 That's good explanation.
It's too bad you got hit, but it might have been a "blessing in disguise" because it's probably better you didn't waste your time trying to make it to the majors and, I assume, focused on your career instead. I presume you know that very, few guys in the rookie league ever to AAA let alone the big leagues.
Progressive Field in Cleveland should have been called Chapman field in memory of its former shortstop. The only major league baseball player to die for the game
Absolutely. But the Chapman family would not be able to compete with the corporate giant’s millions they are paying. Unfortunately. Money rules. I wonder if the field even has a memorial like a statue or plaque for him?
@@georgea6403 Indeed there is www.cleveland.com/livingston/2013/08/almost_a_century_after_the_pit.html
This is the real world and that did not and will not happen.
Several minor leaguers were killed by pitches....and High Schoola nd Little Leaguers died every year from thrown and batted balls.....
There was a catcher in the late 1800s who crashed into a wall chasing a foul ball and died from his injuries
Nice film. You put this together perfectly. I love the photos of Mays and Chapman. There's something mesmerizing and sinister about Mays' photo in mid pitch. It's uncanny and it reminds me of a strange piece of art depicting a war dance.
I have watched a few of your videos and they are all well done. Excellent narration too. This from a new subscriber. Keep up the fine work.
Excellent homage to that era - thanks.
Very well produced short. It grabbed even a casual observer of baseball like me.
I’ve visited Chapman’s grave living in the Cleveland area. Knew some of the story. Never knew the effect on Baseball U presented here. TY so much Professor.
Many Blessings cm 🙏🇺🇸
All that typing and you still cannot type out the word "you"?
Old-time Indian and Yankee fans who remembered the Mays/Chapman incident got a second shock on May 7, 1957, when Yankee Gil McDougald, at the plate, lined a pitch back at Indian pitcher Herb Score, hitting Score right in the face. He recovered and returned to pitching, but was never the same afterward, although he denied that the injury was the reason.
Pick up your cross and follow Jesus! The world is quickly headed for destruction, and sooner or later you will have to sit at the judgement seat and give an account for your actions. Belief in messiah alone is not enough to grant you salvation - Matthew 7:21-23, John 3:3, John 3:36 (ESV is the best translation for John 3:36). Call on the name of Jesus and pray for Him to intervene in your life! - Revelation 3:20.
Contemplate how the Roman Empire fulfilled the role of the beast from the sea in Revelation 13. Revelation 17 confirms that it is in fact Rome. From this we can conclude that A) Jesus is the Son of God and can predict the future or make it happen, B) The world leaders/nations/governments etc have been conspiring together for the last 3000+ years going back to Babylon and before, C) History as we know it is fake. You don't really need to speculate once you start a relationship with God tho.
Can't get a response from God? Fasting can help increase your perception and prayer can help initiate events. God will ignore you if your prayer does not align with His purpose (James 4:3) or if you are approaching Him when "unclean" (Isaiah 1:15, Isaiah 59:2, Micah 3:4). Stop eating food sacrificed to idols (McDonald's, Wendy's etc) stop glorifying yourself on social media or making other images of yourself (Second Commandment), stop gossiping about other people, stop watching obscene content etc and you should get a response. Have a blessed day!
I did a stat comparison one time. Walter Johnson & Carl Mays actually hit batters at a nearly identical rate. Since Walter was a nice likeable guy, and Carl Mays apparently was not, Mays got the reputation as a head hunter, while the Big Train did not.
There could be very different underlying reasons for those rates. One player may have had a control issue, or a particular pitch that tended to move or stay inside. Most of his bean balls might have been to the leg or hand. The other player may have routinely thrown high and inside; a significant number of his bean balls might have been to the upper body or head. So the reputations might be well deserved, even though the very simple math that you've done can't identify a difference.
@TheBatugan, or it could also be that Johnson had over 3500 K's while Mays had about 860 K's. 417 wins compared to 207 wins, it's not about being likeable, it's about who was the dominant pitcher period.
@@TeufelHunden605
"Nearly identical rate..."
Apparently you don't know what 'rate' means.
You think like-ability was the key factor? Uh…. Ok then.
@@bryansmith9431
Good. That's what it was
This is my first time coming across your channel. I subscribed. Thank you.
Rest In Peace
Submarine pitching is a lost art. Today, only seven major league pitchers use that style.
I love watching submarine pitchers go to work. In fact, I will tune into certain ballgames just to see a submarine or a knuckleball pitcher. I also wish someone like Ricky Henderson existed. The game today is exciting, but certain baseball arts are in repose.
I saw one that I recall, Pirate Kent Tekulve, in Atlanta.
Tyler Rogers of the SF Giants
@@thebaseballprofessor it's hard to have someone as fast as Ricky
its not a lost art...its just really bad for your shoulder, not as bad as side arm, but still not suggested for longevity in pitching
Totally unexpected. Nice work. I had an entirely different expectation about how baseball would've changed over this incident. Again, nice work.
After the deadly pitch, Carl Mays played nine more seasons in the major leagues and was highly effective when healthy. He won 27 games in 1921 and contributed to the Yankees pennant winning seasons in 1921 and 1922. One can make the argument for Carl Mays' inclusion in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
"Contributed"? He was one of the worst pitchers in the league in 1923 at 5-2 with a 6.20 ERA and he didn't even pitch in that world series. Seems like you're grasping at straws there and being a little disingenuous by even bothering to include his presence on that team without mentioning how terrible he was on that '23 team. I agree, his stats were very good when he was healthy but he stopped being healthy after 1922 and could only manage 2 full seasons out of 7 after that. The case for him being HOFamer is pretty thin in my opinion, though he did get 2.8% of the vote in 1958 so.... he's got that going for him.
Good point about 1923 (I just edited my pinned comment). I will say, however, Mays had two stellar seasons with Cinncinnati and retired from baseball with a 51.2 lifetime WAR. There are plenty of HOF pitchers with less impressive stats.
@@thebaseballprofessor You're probably right about the hall of fame stuff though. He was kinda sorta unofficially black-listed for a couple things. The Chapman thing, people thought he had a hand in throwing a world series and they say he was just a generally unpleasant person who shared little in common with his teammates outside of baseball. After looking at his contemporaries' career stats his numbers line up fairly well even when you consider how much time he missed after the '22 season. He was also a pretty good hitter, I think his career average was around .270 and they would use him as a pinch hitter sometimes on his off days.
Ray Chapman is a relative of mine (somehow). Ancestry has him married to a distant cousin. His story is part of our family lore . . .
Ray's wife Katie was our 1st cousin twice removed!
yeah, ok.
While the spitball was banned in 1920, those pitchers using it in previous years were "grandfathered in" and continued to use it.
Funny to think it was ok for them to spit over a ball which would be touched & fielded by other players. Just think of all those players rubbing their fingers all over their teammates spit. Weird...
@@billb3414 Guess how the balls get rubbed up for high school games when the school can't afford rubbing mud.
there was one pitcher who was not a spitballer until the grandfather clause kicked in
@@billb3414 the infielders were in on it too. They would spit tobacco juice or licorice juice into their gloves, and rub it on the ball. New balls were rarely taken out of play, and the game in question it was dusk and cloudy. Bill James wrote about it in a number of his books. Chapman likely never saw it till it was too late.
Also mays had a weird motion, basically he threw underhanded.
Gotta say this is my favorite baseball channel ! Thank u for the in depth history !!!!!
My favorite players ( to many to list but the to tier are :) mickey mantle , Nolan Ryan ,cal ripken Jr, Rickey Henderson , Greg maddux , Mike musina , Reggie Jackson , and Tony Gwen / Kirby Puckett (tied).
I enjoyed the Nolan Ryan back history I saw and hope to see others on my favorite players !
Keep up the great work !!!!
I'm trying to keep up with sports again now that my life is allowing the time again.
I hope to play catch with my toddler son when his motor skills develop better.
😅
Thanks for the comment, Mike! It makes me happy to hear about a father planning to play catch with his son. :)
I did not know that! Thanks for putting this together.
Having been to MLB games for the past 45 years, the one thing that surprises me is that more fans haven't been killed by foul balls. My god, some of the foul balls go into the stands at over 100 MPH. Us baseball fans know some situations: left handed hitter- can slice a line drive foul ball to the left side over the third base dougout. If that ball hits you in the head when you're not looking....... Anyways, good luck everybody!
People don't care about the games and they don't pay attention, that's why they put up the screens down the lines. Can't catch a ball now. I think it sucks.
@@lloydclaussen3925 You're full of crap. They extended the screens a bit further up the lines, but plenty of foul balls still get into the stands.
Yeats ago...ca 1976 or 77 I knew a girl who had the worst crush on Bucky Dent. Went to the stadium one night just to see him in action...she met him...but not the way she wanted to...she gitbhitbin the face when his bat flew out of his hand and hit her in the face broke a bone...or two...he was a standup guy...went to the hospital and apologized..she. despite her injuries was thrilled...
Those screaming foul balls usually have a mean slice.
@@cbroz7492
Sad but heartening story.
Bucky was a standup guy!
The ball hit his head so hard that it bounced on the field and was fielded by an infielder not knowing it hit his head .
That's how the story goes. But it wasn't just any infielder... In fact, it was the pitcher (Carl Mays) that fielded the ball. But just like any historical moment, we don't know for sure if this is all true. Carl Mays must've been stupid if he didn't realize the person he pitched the ball to fell to the ground. This leads me to believe the fielding part of the story is fake.
@@billb3414 If you pause the video @ 1:42 and look at the newspaper accounts from the next day, they say Mays was the one who fielded it and threw it to first.
@@billb3414
The only stupid idiot here is you. If a pitcher hears a 'crack', he's looking for the ball. Not at the batter. You are a loser.
LooHOOhooHOOhooSER!
@@billb3414
You're an idiot, billy boy.
@@billb3414 i would guess nearly every pitcher i've ever seen deliver the ball didn't have their eyes on the catcher/batter through a significant portion of their post-release movement. this video made the remark that the the collision of the ball with the batter's skull was loud and resembled the crack of a bat (i dont remember for sure about his last bit, i might have made that up). if you went through a motion and rotated away from the batter, and heard the report of the bat while you rotated, and then saw the ball rolling on the field, i could see fielding it and throwing out the batter. if that was me, i'm guessing the thing that would have stopped me was aiming for a throw to 1st but not seeing a runner.
Fine video, short and sweet but full of informative value.
It’s amazing that this man’s death did not much to add safety to baseball but rather introduced the live ball era to Major League Baseball, giving us legends like Babe Ruth, Lou Geihrig, and Rogers Hornsby to cheer on and watch what would have been impossible a year earlier with dirty doctored baseballs.
I'm Australian and have never had any particular interest in baseball (I'm a cricket man), but I watched the Ken Burns Baseball documentary series and absolutely loved it. This incident was brilliantly covered in that series but this was a deeper dive into it. Thank you.
Mays was my great great great (great? Maybe? Cant remember how many) grandfather. Have some cool photos of him. I met Bobby Doer before he passed away, he is a HOF Red Sox player that played with Mays and he lived in Oregon, where I live, and he told us stories of him and Carl Mays hunting in John Day, Eastern Oregon. Bobby also told me how he would always cast a vote to induct Carl Mays into the HOF given he was a phenomenal pitcher, but with Bobby passing away, it's likely Mays will never get in. There's also a family story of a great great grandmother that played with Babe Ruth's daughter underneath Yankee stadium. Not sure if it is true, but it's been told around the family for ever. Carl also lost the vast majority of his wealth during the great depression and he had an unrivaled hatred for Ty Cobb, who felt the same about Mays.
Fascinating stuff. I assume Bobby liked your ancestor, Mr Mays? Did he say anything about his personality?
@@joemarshall4226 They were great friends. They often hunted in eastern Oregon together, I remember a story he told where they both tagged a buck in the same season, and I think the same day. He was an advocate to put Mays in the HOF, so he truley appreciated him and others talk about how nice Mays was as well!
@@coryfoster6004 The best way to judge a pitcher's career is by his ERA+ and the number of inning he pitched. Carl had a 119 ERA+ (19% better than the average pitcher), and he pitched just over 3000 innings. Similar toe David Cone and Jimmy Key who had similar ERA+ numbers (121 and 123) but fewer innings pitched (2898 and just over 2500) Their ERA+ numbers are higher than the following pitchers: Bert Blyleven, Gaylord Perry, Catfish Hunter, Phil Neikro, Jim Bunning, Steve Carlton,Warren Spahn (119 also), Dennis Eckersley, Red Ruffing, Jack Morris, Pud Galvin, Don Sutton, Jim Kaat, Jesse Haines, Jack Chesbro, Nolan Ryan, Chief Bender, Waite Hoyt,Robin Roberts, Candy Cummings, Eppa Rixey, Ferguson Jenkins, Vic Willis, Ted Lyons and Tom Glavine....now some of these pitchers had way more IP, but some had fewer, so there's a case for Carl as a borderline Candidate for the Hall of Fame.
This is documented in a great book called "The Pitch that Killed".
I've been a baseball fan for over 40 years. I had no idea about this. Thx for the great intel.
Great but very sad story. Rip Chapman
The pinch runner who came in for Chapman would score the winning run of the game. Cleveland then got hot and went on to win the AL pennant that year by two games over the White Sox and three over the Yankees. They then went on to win the World Series over the Brooklyn Robbins 5 games to 2. (The series was a best of nine that year.)
I remember when players started wearing head protection in the 1960's. Many players felt it was unmanly, but eventually saw the sense of it. Some wore protective caps under their baseball caps. Others had the hard protective helmet, but without the ear flap.
They didn’t stop the game after the deadly pitch?
@@MikeCee7 No. As I recall reading, Chapman lived through the night and died early the next morning. So no one realized the injury was fatal.
Mays did turn himself into the police after hearing Chapman died, but the DA ruled it an accidental homicide, and there were no criminal charges.
As a cricket player and fan I can see the parallels in our sports. Back in day batters had no helmets and fast bowlers would, and still do, routinely bowl at the batters head. As far as I know, there have been two instances where batters have been killed in this way.
Not too long ago a cricket player was killed while wearing a helmet.
It's the tea. 🍵 ☕
If you ever hold a baseball and a cricket ball you notice the difference. Baseballs are rock hard verses the cricket ball which is softer and more giving. At least the cricket ball that I have held. I grew up on baseball.
@@lazarochavez1 When a cricket ball is new at the beginning of the innings it is very hard, then softens during play.
@@lazarochavez1 A new cricket ball is typically significantly harder as well as 10% heavier than a baseball.
In the wee wee early 1980’s, I broke my arm. As I waited in the emergency room a kid came in by ambulance. He had gotten hit in the mouth, which pushed his braces up into his mouth. Why they had not given him painkillers is beyond me, and to make it worse they had to wait on a dental surgeon. Poor guy was in so much pain.
Man this is great footage. Mays really went down low to fling his pitches. I knew he was a submarine pitcher and always had the curiosity of what his motion was like. Well, a mystery no more but damn I can see why Chapman never saw the pitch coming.
Dan Quisenberry from the Kansas City Royals was the same submarine style pitcher and was hard to hit off. I always wondered how different the damage to your elbow was for a submarine style pitcher versus a regular overhand. I think overhand pitcher would have more shoulder rotator cuff , upper arm issues and a submarine pitcher would probably have more issues in the elbow but that's just my opinion I'm sure there's some kind of damage after 10 to 12 years of pitching that style at 95 to 98 mph regularly
@@mikejacobs2886 Once the base salary for a ballplayer went over a million per, I stopped worrying the wear and tear. Quisenberry died of brain cancer at the age of 45. Obviously not baseball related. Looking at the pictures, I seriously doubt he used steroids.
@@anonymike8280 No he was definitely not using steroids. I'm not sure that steroids were even around in the early 80's. Strange that Quisenberry died of a brain tumor. I know that the Rpyals head coach of Quisenberry ( Dick Howser) also died from a brain tumor in 1985. 1 year after Quisenberry.
@@mikejacobs2886 Steroids have been around since at least the 1930s. purified testosterone since the 1890s, crude testosterone earlier than that. Then there's the expedient of mountain oysters. Braise lightly, chew thoroughly. However, Quisenberry was in no way built like a steroid user.
Ballplayers from the 50s and 60s knew about steroids but they were not widely available. They used greenies and white crosses (amphetamines). These did not make you a better athlete like steroids will, but there is much to be said for staying alert and avoiding creeping weight gain.
One of the effects of PED use is enhanced performance. When you see enhanced performance, unfortunately, you have to consider the possibility of PED use. That's not just today, but going way back. I suspect, but cannot prove, that extreme consistency from year year is another possible indication of PED use, especially if performance does not fall off past the early 30s.
Athletes have always sought an edge and their psychology is that there achievements are earned even they cheat. One of the few who ever was honest was Jose Canseco. He straight out said once, without steroids he wouldn't even have been in the big leagues.
@@anonymike8280 Wow those are some interesting facts, thank you for sharing that. I know alot of synthetic drugs were have now were originally Parr of the early German chemists. Germany actually synthesized Amphetamines to keep their soldiers alert. All you need to see about steroids is to look at Barry Bonds before and after. So obvious. Huge muscular gain. Thanks for the information.
Merci for this.
I went to our Swiss sports ground and heard the crack of the baseball, so headed over to watch. The school had their electives Gym class on the baseball diamong throwing and batting. I tried to give some pointers at the young men. They didn't care to listen. One kid was standing facing the pitcher and tried to slash at the ball. His teacher had told him to turn with his side, but he didn't care.
The trouble is that they teach baseball and not softball, and even girls are enrolled.
Western Switzerland is not a breeding ground for baseball talent.
i'm surprised anyone plays baseball in switzerland.
You can’t blame Carl Mays. In the time he played, balls weren’t changed every pitch like today. Batters wore no protective helmets. Pitchers threw spitballs, some players (Ty Cobb)sharpened their spikes, batters used corked bats, etc. Tony Conigliaro was hit in the head in the ‘60’s, & it ended his career. That’s when they began wearing helmets with side shields. Same types of things happened in football too, & the gear they wear now is like armor compared to what they wore way back in those early times.
Excellent presentation of a far reaching incident in Baseball History. Thank you.
You should do a video about Adam Greenberg. The Cubs player who was hit in the head and ended his career with only one at bat. Even though he tried a comeback later he was never able to play the game fully.
There are other examples, like Tony Conigliaro and Dickie Thon to name two.
ruth taking a cross step into his swing is crazy. was his timing just that good or pitchers timing that predictable. i think for sure they throw at someones head if they take a cross step like that these days. that makes wild crazy power
Pitchers wouldn't throw at a batter's head if they did a cross-step, they would simply change the timing of their delivery and make the batter look foolish
Rest in peace Mr Chapman
I saw him pitch on old baseball films. Quite a talent and surely a one of a kind. Self made talent.
Loved the history of this pitch by Carl Mays that changed the game of baseball forever as you tell it. You yourself are a great story teller, a professional historian, who as you say does baseball history for fun. I also like that you site your sources on screen in your videos.
My only addition to your story would be that Ray Chapman more than crowded the plate while hitting. “Ray Chapman hugged plate so closely when he batted that his head was usually in the strike zone.” Source: 20th Century Baseball Chronicle, 1992.
This in no way dimensions your video or history of this pitch in 1920 that forever changed baseball. My dad bought that book for me at Cooperstown in ‘92. I was so intrigued by your video I pulled it off my bookshelf and read about it.
Fascinating history. Foreign substances placed on baseballs were forbidden that year. More importantly just as you tell the story clean baseballs were mandatory during the game because of the unfortunate death of Chapman.
Now to watch the rest of your baseball video. Can’t wait to see the 1950’s as low point for MLB.
Thanks for getting me to reread a book I always treasured given to me by late father, a man who loved baseball.
Why do you think 1950s was the.low point in baseball
Also kind of crazy to consider they didn’t think of batters wearing any sort of head protection like a helmet especially since during the dead ball era pitches were more erratic with their movement and harder to see.
There was a time that they didn’t even play with gloves
Did not know any of this. Great video.
First time watching it was a good video thank you
Sad story.
Interesting story... thank you!
Excellent video, thank you.
Pick up your cross and follow Jesus! The world is quickly headed for destruction, and sooner or later you will have to sit at the judgement seat and give an account for your actions. Belief in messiah alone is not enough to grant you salvation - Matthew 7:21-23, John 3:3, John 3:36 (ESV is the best translation for John 3:36). Call on the name of Jesus and pray for Him to intervene in your life! - Revelation 3:20.
Contemplate how the Roman Empire fulfilled the role of the beast from the sea in Revelation 13. Revelation 17 confirms that it is in fact Rome. From this we can conclude that A) Jesus is the Son of God and can predict the future or make it happen, B) The world leaders/nations/governments etc have been conspiring together for the last 3000+ years going back to Babylon and before, C) History as we know it is fake. You don't really need to speculate once you start a relationship with God tho.
Can't get a response from God? Fasting can help increase your perception and prayer can help initiate events. God will ignore you if your prayer does not align with His purpose (James 4:3) or if you are approaching Him when "unclean" (Isaiah 1:15, Isaiah 59:2, Micah 3:4). Stop eating food sacrificed to idols (McDonald's, Wendy's etc) stop glorifying yourself on social media or making other images of yourself (Second Commandment), stop gossiping about other people, stop watching obscene content etc and you should get a response. Have a blessed day!
Great segment!
I've always said, that UNFORTUNATELY, Tragedy must occur, Before ANY change is ever made 😢
Yes agreed, rules and regulations are often written in blood.
I had a friend that was catching at Ohio State in the 1900s, the pitcher hit a batter in the chest and he died on the spot. The pitcher and catcher walked off and never played another game again. My friend became a doctor.
You had a friend playing in the 1900's? Are you 110?
@@cameronevanstheanalogueall7729
1990s are in the 1900s. So are the 1980s, 1970s, etc. Awkwardly stated but accurate
No disrespect here, but how old are you man? If you were alive in the 1900’s and you mean that to be 1900-1910 you’ve got some incredible genetics!
Ok everyone so the way this is phrased makes it sound like this commenter was the same age as his friend. But I've become friends with people 50+ years older than me, mostly through my jobs in restaurants. You befriend regulars no matter their age. So his friend was probably in their 20's in the 1900's and if they lived to 80 they would have been alive in the through the 60's. And if the commenter was in his 20's or 30's at that time then he would be in his late 70's or 80's now. Definitely feasible. Probably unlikely, but not technically impossible.
@@piercehubbard4086
Nice sarcasm. Almost got me.
You could so easily get folks by telling them your folks are so old they were born in the 1900s. If you are 23+ then you could say that about yourself.
Thanks for sharing your research
I just read up on Mickey Mantle a while a go. Came across something called the batter's eye. That patch of greenery or dark colored seating right behind the center field such that the batter can see the ball. I didn't recall when it came out but I'm sure this incident was influential.
Dr. Harold Klawans, in his book "Why Michael Couldn't Hit and Other Tales of the Neurology of Sport," offers a brief analysis of the fatal pitch, explaining that Chapman never really saw the pitch because the visual cells that saw the submarine delivery hadn't learned to trigger any reflexes.
Sonar helps with identifying submarines.
And a dirty ball kept in play too long
Interesting thought process. "Someone got killed by getting nailed in the head with a pitch. Should we make everyone wear protective headgear?"
"Nah, let's just make the ball easier to see so they can move out of the way."
Apparently it helped a little?
I have to think that not requiring helmets might also have been that they probably would have been made of heavy, padded leather or of metal. Not very comfortable. The lightweight plastic helmet didn't exist at the time.
@@patrickmorgan4006 A very good point! Didn't think of that.
Subscribed... cool channel... Red Sox and Tony Canigliaro fan
Great video! Thank you!
Ever see Ted Abernathy's (the late 60s /early 70s) submarine curve? Three foot horizontal curve. The epitome of the high school curve ball. All horizontal break and no vertical movement. Terrorized rookies. Veterans hit them into the cheap seats.
David Cone had a similar pitch, from low side arm. They called it "The bolero".
It’s like Chapman unwillingly gave his life to save Baseball. May he Rest In Peace.
Unwittingly anyway.
@@majorpuggington that’s probably what I was trying to say lol
@@cougar2013 It’s stunning to me , if not arrogant on the part of MLB , that it took , what..almost 50 blankety blank years for MLB to wake up to the danger of a rock coming to within a very few inches of your head; that could kill you , before they FINALLY started with helmets ??!!
And R.I.P. ✝️ Tony Conigliaro a great guy and a great team player of the Boston Red Sox, who died in 1990, - he was hit in the face by a fastball in 1967, and suffered from the effects of this until his untimely passing at the young age of 45.
BTW, why were all the baseball columnists and radio announcers silent and ineffective , during all those long years ? !
Your excellent video has spawned some excellent baseball talk in the comments. Great job.
I’m confused by the Babe Ruth reference…
Was the change in the number of Ruth’s homers that year bigger than the average change for other players//teams?
Do a video on Harry Heilman please
The "livelier ball" ie., cork-centered ball, had already been is use for about ten years previous to Ruth's Home Run pace.
the defining moment from the dead ball (no pun intended) era to the modern game era.
RIP that’s messed up
I never knew about this. I just thought players always wore helmets when at bat. Thanks for the history lesson.
There was a time they didn’t even play with gloves
The only pitching style that is close to the submarine style pitching motion is the side arm which you rarely see a pitcher throw side arm
there's at least one submariner that throws a pretty crazy fastball that actually has an upwards trajectory, and quite a few sidearmed pitchers, albeit relievers for the most part. It's just hard to throw that way for long and I think you also tend to lose velocity, which isn't ideal in a sport where 100+ MPH fastballs and 90+MPH breaking balls exist. As a reliever it seems better since you can use your weirdness to mess folks up and they don't have time to adjust, and you don't mess your arm up in the process
I was no pro, but I was a 3/4 arm angle pitcher, with a sidearm sinker and running fastball as well as an occasional submarine 4-seamer. My changing arm angles and resulting different movement on the ball were the only reason I kept people off my 80mph fastball and lackluster curve. After 3 innings, I was out of tricks.
Another change resulting from this incident was that centerfield fences have no advertisements and are painted green. This allows the batter to better see the ball as it’s delivered. Not sure when the change was made or if it was directly in response to Chapman’s death, but player safety became a higher priority after 1920.
A very fine little bit of history, sadly that's how a lot of history is made. RIP . 👍
Helmets weren’t required till the 70’s??? Damn…
Face Mask in football were not required until 1967.
@@jonlanier_ don't forget about hockey.
helmets for players entering the league in 1979. still no rule for goalie masks. had to look it up. nobody wore a helmet and some would wear a mask when I was a kid.
Helmets were required in Little League when I played in the mid 50s (54 through 57).
I pitched in Little League and threw a fastball that sent another kid to the hospital in a coma. He survived but I was so shaken afterwards that I was afraid to pitch and switched to outfield. The pitch was estimated at 68 mph.
This is what made us transition from the dead ball to the live ball Era. Even though you look guys like Ruth and ty cobb the numbers they put up during the dead Era is still mind blowing.
Why have I never heard of this until now this changed everything
3:07 that is an excellent clip of Babe Ruth's swing. It looks like he's got a "walking" batter's stance. That's the first time I've ever seen that. Maybe it was one technique of his power?
Like a men's league softball swing
@@straystray
Or Ichiro's swing.
Guess again.
@@TheBatugan77 Guess what again? I'm not wrong. It's possible for something to have multiple similarities.
I appreciated this clip of Babe’s swing as well. So, he takes a side/forward step and then into the pitch he swings. I couldn’t imagine that technique garnering any success in todays baseball. Or, am I wrong?
Happy Gilmore!
The thing is, you have to start your swing before the ball is released in pro ball if its a fast ball. Part of the batters swing calculations are based on the pitchers body motions. Having a dirty ball will make the final calculation harder though.
1:24 Notice how the shadow hangs over home plate area as a potential distraction.
Great video. Sad story. I appreciate many of the comments below also.
I was once hit in the head with a 90 MPH whiffle ball in the Wiffle Ball All-Star game. I lost my memory for 20 years and had to learn how to walk and talk again.
holy shit ..a wiffle ball?
I was hit in the nose with a wiffle ball. The wiffle caused sniffles and made me skiffle.
@Trigger Warning That sounds like a terrible experience. Glad you were brought magically back to life to tell your brave story. God is good.
@Trigger Warning u sir have a lot of time on your hands...get a job lol
I'd love to regale you all with my tale of being beaned with a bowling ball, but I promised my shrink I would never speak of it again nor my experiences 6 years as Marilyn Monroe's personal sommolier.
Mays won 200+ games. What kept him out of the HOF was suspicions he threw World Series games in 1921. Miller Huggins said he would help any former ballplayer in need - except Carl Mays. He'd spit on Mays if he saw him sitting on a curb.
There were lots of less than standup players in the early 1900s. A lot of pitchers threw at batters, especially those who crowded the plate. Chapman had bunted in 2 previous at bats. I think he threw the pitch high and tight to make it harder for Chapman to attempt another bunt. Dirty ball late afternoon, it's no durprise Chspman didn't yrybto duck the pitch. I think Mays took a lot of crap for nothing more than an accident. He won 205 gsmes snd his win percentsge was .622, and he's not in the HoF, but others with similar stats are.
@@tomsmith5216 Being incredibly dislikable and killing someone has a cost. He should not be in the HoF based on the current standards even if they are implemented fickly. PEDs are significantly less awful than what he did but is more than enough to keep better players out.
@@coltrueg oh bullshit
Fred Lieb was a noted baseball scorer, historian, and writer; his book "Baseball As I Have Known It" covers over 70 years of his observations. I just looked it up. He said Tillinghaust Huston, the owner of the Yankees during the 1920s, was in Florida one year with Wilbert Robinson and some other executives, and after a bout of drinking rum and Coca-cola, Huston tried to share a story with Lieb, but Robinson kept interfering. At last, the story came out: Huston said that Mays threw games in both the 1921 and 1922 Series. There also was an actor who independently shared this information with Lieb: that Mays's wife was signaling him with a white handkerchief from the stands that the fix was on (in cash). When Lieb researched the results of the innings in question, it was clear that the NY Giants had suddenly found themselves getting base hits whereupon before, they were unable to get anything against Mays.
Interesting fact..Chapman was replace by Joe Sewell who was inducted to the HALL OF FAME and was the toughest player in baseball history to strikeout.
Dan Quisenberry was sure fun to watch
Or Kent Tekulve.
Do a video on Tony Conigliaro.
It's a good idea. Or perhaps something more general on the best MLB players who had injuries shorten their promising careers
@@thebaseballprofessor
Was there ever anyone more promising than Tony Conigliaro?
He truly could have had a great career had it.not been for the injury.
PETE Reiser.
@@djg585 Yes. His brother Billy.
I had never heard of this. I’ve watched Ken Burns’ Baseball several times but don’t recall this being mentioned.
Watching the Burns documentary you'd never know baseball was played outside of Boston and New York.
@@mikegeither7785
ToughShit. NYC is what matters.
@@TheBatugan77 then play by your got-damn self, all everything.
Just because someone isn't considered popular doesn't mean that they are a bad person. Nor are popular people necessarily virtuous.
Good history
Growing up we had one brother hit another brother in the head with a snowball and it killed him. Be careful what and where you throw.
woah...that is really sad.....
R.I.P.
The last baseball game I ever played was once I was 15 and took a fastball directly to the temple and got a concussion. That was the last pitch I ever took. I'm 43 now and until I watched this video I've been telling myself for decades "how could i have not seen the ball?" It always bothered me how I saw the pitcher go through his motion and I remember thinking "where's the ball?" right before it hit me in the head.
Watching this video makes me feel a little better that a professional also didn't see a dirty ball on a bad weather day.
Thanks for sharing. I got hit in the face playing catch once. I can only imagine what it would've felt like 25 mph faster.
Walter Johnson hit batters more often than Carl Mays.
Carl Mays hit 89 batters over a career that produced 3021 innings. That's one HBP every 34 innings.
Walter Johnson hit 205 batters in 5914 innings. That's one HBP every 29 innings. Over the first half of Johnson's career, 3148 innings, he hit 113 batters - one every 28 innings. The Big Train hit batters more often than Carl Mays did.
Walter Johnson had a reputation as a gentleman. Mays had a reputation as a surly man, described as having the disposition of 'a man with a toothache'. That may be a big factor in how history has treated the two men.
That footage of Ruth looked like he was running into the pitch.
Excellent video my friend
Not into sports but this story touched me somehow, thank you.