I have never (ever) heard a 78 rpm record sound so good as when you played it with the Ortofon 2M 78 Moving Magnet Cartridge, which is a testament to Ortofon's experience and skill in producing great cartridges.
The piece of music is not the "Blue Danube." It's actually the "Anniversary Waltz" (the melody has other names, I think, but that's the version I know, sung by Al Jolson for the film "The Jolson Story"). I liked all the versions sound-wise but I'm really impressed with the Ortofon for the superior sound quality and relative noiselessness.
The Vita-Nola was the best in my opinion. The sound is not as crisp, but it has this beautiful softness to it without so much static. I think I’m gonna have to look into getting one like it in the future.
Honestly, I think the Victrola sounded the best. Much less noise than the Ortofon, though the Ortofon did have much better sound and amplification. Great video - was fun to watch. #tinkeringisfun
Old UI didn't have much high regency sound, nearher did old players ñave ability to reproduce "high" y9nes that records of the time don't have. If you intend to play a lot of 78s, a graphic equalizers will turn off tones response in high area that will only have hiss and no music. Some players and amps made before 1965 or so have a "hiss" switch to accomplish this, done forget to turn OFF to play modern records. Graphic Equalizer better though.
Back in 2005 I bought a Stanton STR8T Turntable (STR8T meaning the tone arm was straight, not S-Shape) anyway, I also bought a Shure 78rpm Cartridge to play my 78's and I have ALL kinds of 78's from Elvis to Sinatra to Jazz to Country to Classical and the first night I sat down to hear what the 78 stylus was going to do.....well......I couldn't believe my own ears! No hiss! No scratchy-ness or any other surface noise BUT the MUSIC and the MUSIC only! I played my 78's that night and could NOT break away from my stereo. I was so amazed at what the proper sized stylus could do for an old 78rpm shellac record!!.....Fast Forward to 2021 and I decided about a month ago to break out the Stanton TT and have some fun playing some of those good ol' GREAT sounding 78's BUT only to find out that the Shure Cartridge had died😢......So I went and bought the Ortofon 2M MONO 78 Headshell/Cartridge Combo along with an interchangeable MONO Stylus and with this item You just simply unscrew your present Headshell and just screw in the Ortofon MONO Combo and BINGO!! GREAT sounding 78 AND GREAT sounding MONO from 45's from the 1950's/1960's because the records were MONO until around the end of 1969. No fussy un-hooking the present cartridge from the present headshell AND the 2M Cartridge is internally wired for You so You just screw it it and PLAY!!! I'm usually NOT a big fan of Ortofon BUT You have to check out their 2M Headshell/Cartridge Combo's. They are pretty sharp!!
@@Recordology You should see how the 2M Headshell/Cartridge Combo makes your turntable look! It really throws some super sleekness into Your turntable's appearance!
That's because he placed the microphone at the horn. The hiss is from the needle. Most youtubers film from above with a built in mic so we hear a lot surface noice mixed with a little horn sound.
Friend had extensive record collection ( 45s ) and a radio show on public radio station. Sometimes as a sideline on some shows he would occasionally play 78s. On one such show he had some almost perfectly untouched 78 records in pristine condition and played on the radio stations primo equipment ( I think they had 78 turntables there ) you could have a really hard time telling if it was 78 rpm shellac record or a CD. Absolutely flawless.
New 78 that is unplayed, did not have much hiss. Years ago I found a Columbia "78" of Earnest Ansermet from around World War One. It was dust free in a sealed , windowles envelope, therefore dust free It sounded as noseless as a vinyl, though of course ßccoustic sounding. On reality, shellac 78s you'll find have wear and dust in grooves And that is part of problem, apart of problem if using real 78 record. If using micro groove needle you are also riding in dusty area at bottom of Grove.😊
The Ortofon sounded the best, then the acoustic came in second, the magnetic sounded awful, but came in third, and the ceramic came in last place. Thanks for posting.
Don't change cartridges, get another head shell for the other cartridge! (Less work to swap 'em) OR leave the Ortofon in the turntable, and just swap out the stylus for the RED or the BLUE one. (The 78 cart is just the M2 with a different stylus). Amazing that the 100 year old phonograph sounds as noise free as the ortofon cartridge. Of course, its frequency response isn't quite as good.
I still heard a superfluous amount of noise and distortion I wouldn’t have expected of the record before it was played on the crosley. You can even hear the oscillation of marks the stylus made bouncing in the groove. Those earlier playback experiments ruined that record.
I’m using a Garrard 401 turntable and SME3009 arm. I replaced the SME headshell with a pair of heavier Ortofon SH4 headshells, one is fitted with a 2m black for vinyl and the other has a 2m 78. SME can provide a heavier counterweight. Swapping the headshells is easy but you do need to add a couple of tiny washers to the cartridge mounting screws of the 2m 78 so that no changes are needed to the back of the arm.
For playing 1930s and older records a 90 micron stylus is the best sounding alternative to an old steel grammophone head, as available for the Shure M75. Playing 1950s 78 records a 75 micron needle is fine. The oldes records (WW1 and earlier) need 120 micron needles.
Great video. I loved the side by side comparison at the end! The phonograph seems to pick more details of the recording but lacks the fullness of sound of the Ortofon. It sounds fantastic!
I could tell that that 78 was a re-issue simply because of the label. The label says 'RCA Victor'; if that had been the original 1926 record, the label would have said 'Victor' only.
I won my first original phonograph in an auction last month. A Victor model VV-IV and a whole bunch of records with it, so many I haven’t even gone through them all yet! I ordered my needles for a great price from eBay (300 for about 15 bucks).
{RCA} Victor @/35774- "Danube Waves Waltz", by Nathaniel Shilkret and the Victor Orchestra {"International Concert Orchestra"}; recorded on March 30, 1926. This is a 1946 reissue, as the melody became the "Anniversary Song" {with lyrics by Saul Chaplin} that year [made popular by Al Jolson].
I’ve found with my 78s it’s kind of great feel wise to run my turntable with a 78 needle through a valve guitar amp, which filters out the high frequency and makes the bass sound great :) it mimics some of the shape of an acoustic while loosing less frequency!
I looked into the Ortofon PNP (plug and play) cartridge at one point and it has some issues. It is pretty heavy and requires an additional weight to be added to the tonearm counterweight (at least on Technics 1200 tables). And it can't be adjusted for alignment or overhang. There's good discussion here - www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=61413
That is or was quite common back in the day as the vast majority of turntables came with the "S" or "J" shaped arm and used the SME style of disconnect for the headshells. In the 1980's, there was teh straight tone arm, typically of low or very low mass designs, Vs medium to high mass arms of the other designs and they often used the removable offset ADC style of headshell, but companies like Rega eschewed the removable headshell for a fixed unit permanently attached to the arm for a more rigid cart to headshell to arm mounting for better bass among other things and that became the "standard" so many tables use today.
Incredible...I think personally for my ears the old vintage record player actually sounded the best...in terms of less hiss crackle...But the Ortofon head was far better than the first two plays.Great video..Cheers Ade
This record came out in 1926, and was reissued in the 1940s. Also, most "3 mil" styli are actually either 2.5mil or 2.7mil. 2.5mil tip works great for: - 50s 78s - 16" radio transcription discs (33rpm) 2.7mil tip works great for: - Victor acoustic batwing label "78s" (majority of them) [speed of Victor batwing records are 76.59rpm] - Columbia Viva-Tonal 78s - 40s/50s 78s - 16" radio transcription discs (33rpm) - Columbia acoustic "78s" [80rpm] - Victor scroll label 78s - Most acoustic "78s" (speeds varied on them) - Most electrically recorded 78s
Thank you for watching and commenting! The matrix number on this indicates a 1926 recording date but the label could possibly indicate a later release. Odd that it isn’t a red seal label.
Correct. March 30th, 1926. It was originally issued on the Victor scroll label, but this is a 1940s reissue. adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/matrix/detail/800008980/CVE-34742-Danube_waves
Thanks for demonstrating these different methods for playing that 78. I will add that playing a late recording like this on a 1917 phonograph (pre-orthophonic) is not giving your listeners an accurate representation of the sound capable on this record. That Victrola was meant to play acoustically recorded records and has a small horn, incapable of reproducing the lows and highs of a record recorded on a microphone. The post 1926 phonographs had a much larger horn and better reproducer, sounding much more realistic than the older models. Surface noise is simply part of the experience.
The reproducer on your phonograph was made for accoustically recorded disks, the one you played was an electric disc. A later reproducer, a metal diaphram one will sound better.
Being recorded in 1926 it is right on the edge of either being electric or acoustic. Usually electric recordings sound slightly distorted on this due to the reproducer but this one didn't - so I don't know for sure. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I'm with Greg on this, the diaphragm in your Victrola is not a metal diaphragm so it was designed to play acousticly recorded records not electrically recorded records. It does play it really well though but if you used a different soundbox with a metal diaphragm then the sound would considerably improve. Also just playing the first few seconds of an old disc will highlight any wear that is present as most old 78rpm discs which have been played with metal worn needles take the biggest hit at the beginning of the record. Btw a 78rpm suitable stylus for the suitcase machine is available. Just pop one stylus off and replace . Cheers
Now the newer record players have a far superior sound,but, the players also do pick up the surface noise of the discs,where as the older acoustic machines may have had surface noise but if you use soft tone steel needles that noise is considerable less.
If you have access to one, try playing the same recording on a circa 1948-56 Zenith console with a Cobra tone arm. You may find that produces the best audio quality from a 78 rpm. If you attend an antique radio show I’m sure someone there would accommodate your request.
Diamond stylus will actually cut that shellac. Shellac dust is the "dirt" you cleaned out of the tracks. Use a softer 3 mil sapphire that will ride higher in the groove. As was also pointed out, don't play electrically recorded 78's on heavy tracking acoustic Victrolas. Finally, different companies and countries had different eq curves.
The Victrola did sound amazing with remarkably low noise, but the sound was cavernous due to (I presume) resonances in the horn. I definitely liked the sound of the Ortofon the best.
Is that Ortofon 78 cartridge wired for mono? If not, then their 2M mono cartridge with that 78 stylus would sound even better, as combining the two stereo channels down to mono will eliminate a lot of the background hiss/crackle from the 78 record....
I enjoyed this video so much! I have spent hours researching how to play the 78’s in the best way possible. I recently inherited my grandfathers collection of country western music, although I think the audio technica did well with the Omron 3mil stylus, I am determined to go with a steel needle phonograph machine not only is the sound better but it has much more nostalgia, sort of a creepy eerie sound! Overall leading to a better listening experience, thank you for showing the differences!
If you really want to get seriouse about playing 78's there is a whole word of knowledge on the subject. Going back to steel needle is not, in my opinion, the right way. If they have not been distroyed yet by a steel needle and your grandfather used contemporary equipment. Electric player and amplifier there is a good chans your record are saved. Would be a pity to destroy them now. Click on my name and you can listen to how Bessie Smith or Winifred Atwell from the late 20's can sound like on a proper equipment.
Fitted with an ION 78 3 mill stylus the suitcase players aren't bad at all for 78's. You can get these styluses just about everywhere, and they cost almost nothing, and it's easy to change the styluses around. I would never use a Crosley/suitcase player for vinyl (because no matter what some claim, they simply aren't good enough), but for 78's it's a whole other matter. They are great for some one who want's to start collecting 78's (at least for a start - especially combined with the Ikea Eneby speaker), they are great to bring to thrift stores and flea markets to check 78's before buying, and if you bring it to a date (a moonlit night - for instance at the beach) along with champagne, candle lights, and Glenn Millers Moonlight Serenade on shellac, you have to be one ugly bastard not to get laid. The 78 stylus is truly what put Crosleys on the map, and they should actually skip the 45/33 speed completely.
the "cheap portable record player cartridge" actually sounds about as good as a 1950s hifi phonograph (take an RCA Victor 1952 3 speed for example) a ton of people actually replace dead cartridges on old record players with them because they sound good and are cheap replacements.
The acoustic player definitely did it best, although the Ortofon was also excellent and would be the perfect way to play 78s that can’t be played on a windup due to being later recordings, or made of easily damaged materials such as the Nicole record. IMO, the ceramic cartridge could have also performed very well if it was fitted with a 78 stylus, however the problem there is that many of the red casing “78” styli are actually just microgroove styli relabelled, so it could be difficult to find a genuine one.
This is a good comparison of the Styli,cartridges and TT's for playing 78 records.Never seen a comparison like this before.Great work!Remember with my fathers hi-fi TT he had two cartridges-one for 33-45 RPM-other for 78.I don't have any 78 records at this time-sadly the 78s I played at my Grandmother-grandfathers house got thrown out!Would have loved them!
My wife was danish and we would go there a lot…i never met one dane who had ever heard of Ortofon…to me they were the best - till I discovered Japanese retips and dug out my old Shure M75 with a microline retip….which was way better than any v15 etc I ever heard AND a Shure 78rpm needle just drops in…i have a non detachable headshell,arm so thats what I need its the Linn Ittok but on a garrard 401 for 78’s
Beautiful video. The Ortofon make a huge difference on noise reduction. However, the last example should be play on Ortophonic Machine, not an acoustic one, because that record is an electric recording.
I just change the stylis on my all new atlp120x to play 78's which is really nice that the cartridge is interchangeable. Just have to set the tracking force to 5g. The 78 stylis is $59 a good deal
This stylus is great for it's price but the king still is the ortofon SPU Mono 65. i'ts very expensive with 999€ new but a friend of mine found one on ebay for auction for 350€ and it was like new and now it's mine. and a few month ago another one was sold for the same price! these styli are rare but buyers are even rarer so keep your eyes open and you will find one too for that cheap for 350€ starting price and you will probably still be the only one who bids on it!
Personally I prefer the Ortofon cartridge. The only problem is that the Ortofon cartridge is a little too expensive (125 $ +) for my budget. By the way nice video.
Very interesting comparison. It would also have been fun to hear it on a more modern 78 electric player from say the 1940's. They were pretty amazing too.
Totally agree. The GE VR-2 cartridge from the late 50s was a great improvement in sound reproduction. I have several Hi-Fi units in my collection with a VR-2 or a close descendants, amazing sound. The acoustic player sounded very good too although this is very hard on records. 😉
The second micro Grove would have sounded way better if you had just lifted the left side of the turntable about 2-3 inches or untill the sound cleared up. An old trick i learned to do many wears ago to get better sound from badly worn 78s with horizontal modulation. As the wearing of the groove is mostly in the bottom and left side of the groove you can actually kinda balance the smaller stylus on the right side of the groove that is less worn to get better cleaner sound. Try it it works.
Thanks for the demo, I found the Suitcase player with the small Styli, the worst and the Vintage player had the best sound, mostly how it was supposed to sound I guess.
Nice video and comparison. I wonder what was wrong with the line level output from the Crosley. I would get a 3 mil stylus for the Audio Technica cart rather than buy the Ortophon. In fact, I plan to do just that for my AT 120 if I ever get 78s. Keep up the good work. I’m subscribing now.
I actually like to play 78's on my older machines using soft tone steel needles they sound better then using full tone needles. The electrically recorded records made after 1935 to about 39 or so were not to be played on these machines, older acoustic records sounded better on these than electrically recorded records
Great question - I've thought about this too. I would suggest getting an EQ and then googling what the RIAA curve looks like and then reversing it on the EQ.
Edison Diamond Disc Records CAN NOT be cleaned with water, but regular 78s can be. Obviously you don’t soak the 78s, but Edison Diamond Discs must be cleaned with alcohol.Edison ‘Needle Cut” Records are just like any other 78s, and are rare and valuable. Most 78s aren’t too valuable, but there are some that are worth Hundreds if Dollars, especially certain Edison Needle cut records. They were only made for a little over a year, ending in late 1929 when Edison stopped making all records.
Why is everyone pretending 12'' 78s are so uncommon? I have crates full of them, tons of '20s Christmas music, Columbia one-step medleys, etc. I find it very hard to believe you're the first one ever to play one on a suitcase player.
Hi, Good evening, (Indian time). I have a question. To use stylus suitable for 78 RPM records, Is the cartridge too different for this stylus or Can I use 78 RPM stylus with the same magnetic cartridge. In other words, is the Cartridge too is separate for 78 RPM stylus ?
This is why it's always good to have an old crank gramophone. I just got my RCA Victrola suitcase player and I think it plays and runs very well for being over 80 years. I doubt any of the nostalgia players with the name would last even a 1/4 of that.
I got a Crosley record player for Christmas last year, lasted 7 months ( it was my first and only record player for a while) and it died on me, literally just turned it on and the regular poof sound of the speaker happend and it straight up died. No indicator light or anything, I then bought a nice used Sony record player from a thrift store, repaired it, bought it a new needle and forgot about it.
I have the very same table and cart setup just for playing 78's which can vary in pitch. You changed the pitch on the slider for the Ortofon probably because the record was not cut at 78 RPM. I could hear that it was the wrong speed with the micro groove cart. You did not explain that - why? It's an important thing to know.
An effective demonstration, but it is a shame that you didn't try the Ortofon in a truely high-end turntable and tonearm. There is another side to playing the old shellac 78's, and that is equalisation. Microgroove records are all recorded with pre-emphasis to the RIAA curve, and so require RIAA equalisation when played back. The earliest 78's were recorded 'flat' with no pre-emphasis and so should be played back without the RIAA equalisation maybe just an extreme top-cut filter to take off the worst of the hiss. Later shellac 78's had a little bit of pre-emphasis and ill need a bit of playback equalisation depending on the label and the year, but nothing as drastic as the RIAA curve. You really need a phono pre-amp with switchable equalisation and de-emphasis filters to do them proper justice. When properly done, it can be a revelation as to just how good those old recordings could be.
So I have heard! I could take this to the next level and import the audio into audacity whereupon I can apply or remove an RIAA curve and make other sonic adjustments. However for this video I just wanted to give a cursory overview. Thank you for commenting!
It is called "Waves of The Danube",also known as "The Anniversary Song", the English words used on this song were I think written by Al Jolson back in 1927 or so I think
Great video....Could you review the 2M "mono" cartridge? It is supposed to make "mono" records sound a lot better compared to playing them with a standard stereo cartridge.
Can you do a video about how to change a cartridge on a Heyday Turntable. It would be so helpful I love my heyday. However I think it could use a new cartridge. I have using it with a Denon M41 receiver Amp. Thanks Howard
If only You could have got your hands on a DS Audio DS002+ DS Audio Power interface as the cartridge is an Active cartridge it is expensive but worth the money.
There are multiple reasons as why playing this record on an antique phonograph is a stupid idea. This record is from the 1950s and would have been played on an electric record player with a lightweight pickup arm. It was NOT designed for an antique gramophone.
No offense to your “wind-up” machine, but that is an electrically recorded record, the earliest types used a big horn and no electricity at all. After 1925 Victor, Columbia, and later even Edison used an enhanced acoustic system called Orthophonic or Viva-Tonal, etc (Edison was called Edisonic) which played as well or in my opinion Better than the earliest (1925-1927) electrical amplifiers. (I like Edison’s electrical ones, called variously C2, C-4, P-1 which is a portable and the one I have, the P-1, and P-2 are AMAZING! P meaning portable. Most Phonographs were large cabinet machines, like my Columbia Viva-Tonal 711, but most companies made wind up portable “suitcase” types. Edison’s portable had (unusually) an internal horn that was something like 56 inches long if it were stretched out. The really big cabinet types had a horn that was around 7feet long and was folded back in on itself for greater volume and fidelity. Your machine (again, no offense intended!) was an off brand. Some of the off brands were really good too, Sears had a series called Tru-phonic which were pretty good for an off brand. Portable wind ups were made well into the 1950’s, and were marketed for picnics or even hones that didn’t have electricity, which surprisingly continued into the 1930’s and 40’s in Rural or poor areas. Various size and material needles were for different purposes, thick ones for the loudest. And various woods, including Cactus Thorn were generally quieter and could also be re-sharpened with a special tool. Those wood/thorn etc needles were also easier on records. I hope this was helpful or interesting. Best Regards, David. PS/ Edison disc records used a special Diamond styli And most are still in good shape. Edison did start making steel needle types starting about 1927, but his earlier records can not be played with steel needles which will destroy the record!
This was a 40's reissue of a 1924/25 recording so its on the edge. It doesn't distort on the Vita-nola. Some of the orthophonics do due to the modulation.
Hi people help me out, I own two records from Columbia Masterworks I guess are 78 but are they really 78 records??it says microgroove, do I need a specific stylus to play it???
I thought I would never need a turntable with 78 speed or the stylus. Then I found a large set for sale at a thrift, in exceptional condition made out of schilac. 😖
I have never (ever) heard a 78 rpm record sound so good as when you played it with the Ortofon 2M 78 Moving Magnet Cartridge, which is a testament to Ortofon's experience and skill in producing great cartridges.
They have great sound information if you have the right tools to unlock it!
ua-cam.com/video/AxENL_1_N74/v-deo.html
You can also get a 3 mil 78 RPM stylus for the AT-VM95E cartridge: it's part number AT-VMN95SP.
VWestlife yoooooooooooo
True
Yup also what do you guys like best the new stylus or the gramophones
I have one, it works pretty well and it’s really cheap
@ I'm pretty sure the film is "It's a Wonderful Life". The actress is definitely Donna Reed.
The piece of music is not the "Blue Danube." It's actually the "Anniversary Waltz" (the melody has other names, I think, but that's the version I know, sung by Al Jolson for the film "The Jolson Story"). I liked all the versions sound-wise but I'm really impressed with the Ortofon for the superior sound quality and relative noiselessness.
The original title of this composition is "Danube Waves" composed by Iosif Ivanovici or in Romanian "Valurile Dunării".
The acoustic gramophone was great because there was minimal surface noise! Of course, the Ortofon resurrects the recording...
9:45 That's why interchangeable headshells are essential when you play 78s regularly.
The Vita-Nola was the best in my opinion. The sound is not as crisp, but it has this beautiful softness to it without so much static. I think I’m gonna have to look into getting one like it in the future.
Honestly, I think the Victrola sounded the best. Much less noise than the Ortofon, though the Ortofon did have much better sound and amplification. Great video - was fun to watch. #tinkeringisfun
Yeah because there was no high frequency above about 3k.
Old UI didn't have much high regency sound, nearher did old players ñave ability to reproduce "high" y9nes that records of the time don't have.
If you intend to play a lot of 78s, a graphic equalizers will turn off tones response in high area that will only have hiss and no music.
Some players and amps made before 1965 or so have a "hiss" switch to accomplish this, done forget to turn OFF to play modern records.
Graphic Equalizer better though.
Back in 2005 I bought a Stanton STR8T Turntable (STR8T meaning the tone arm was straight, not S-Shape) anyway, I also bought a Shure 78rpm Cartridge to play my 78's and I have ALL kinds of 78's from Elvis to Sinatra to Jazz to Country to Classical and the first night I sat down to hear what the 78 stylus was going to do.....well......I couldn't believe my own ears! No hiss! No scratchy-ness or any other surface noise BUT the MUSIC and the MUSIC only! I played my 78's that night and could NOT break away from my stereo. I was so amazed at what the proper sized stylus could do for an old 78rpm shellac record!!.....Fast Forward to 2021 and I decided about a month ago to break out the Stanton TT and have some fun playing some of those good ol' GREAT sounding 78's BUT only to find out that the Shure Cartridge had died😢......So I went and bought the Ortofon 2M MONO 78 Headshell/Cartridge Combo along with an interchangeable MONO Stylus and with this item You just simply unscrew your present Headshell and just screw in the Ortofon MONO Combo and BINGO!! GREAT sounding 78 AND GREAT sounding MONO from 45's from the 1950's/1960's because the records were MONO until around the end of 1969. No fussy un-hooking the present cartridge from the present headshell AND the 2M Cartridge is internally wired for You so You just screw it it and PLAY!!!
I'm usually NOT a big fan of Ortofon BUT You have to check out their 2M Headshell/Cartridge Combo's. They are pretty sharp!!
I have seen those...agreed AWESOME design.
@@Recordology You should see how the 2M Headshell/Cartridge Combo makes your turntable look! It really throws some super sleekness into Your turntable's appearance!
There was no hiss at all on the old crank phono with the steel needle
That's because he placed the microphone at the horn. The hiss is from the needle. Most youtubers film from above with a built in mic so we hear a lot surface noice mixed with a little horn sound.
Friend had extensive record collection ( 45s ) and a radio show on public radio station. Sometimes as a sideline on some shows he would occasionally play 78s. On one such show he had some almost perfectly untouched 78 records in pristine condition and played on the radio stations primo equipment ( I think they had 78 turntables there ) you could have a really hard time telling if it was 78 rpm shellac record or a CD.
Absolutely flawless.
New 78 that is unplayed, did not have much hiss. Years ago I found a Columbia "78" of Earnest Ansermet from around World War One. It was dust free in a sealed , windowles envelope, therefore dust free
It sounded as noseless as a vinyl, though of course ßccoustic sounding.
On reality, shellac 78s you'll find have wear and dust in grooves And that is part of problem, apart of problem if using real 78 record.
If using micro groove needle you are also riding in dusty area at bottom of Grove.😊
The Ortofon sounded the best, then the acoustic came in second, the magnetic sounded awful, but came in third, and the ceramic came in last place. Thanks for posting.
Sounds right
Don't change cartridges, get another head shell for the other cartridge! (Less work to swap 'em)
OR leave the Ortofon in the turntable, and just swap out the stylus for the RED or the BLUE one. (The 78 cart is just the M2 with a different stylus).
Amazing that the 100 year old phonograph sounds as noise free as the ortofon cartridge. Of course, its frequency response isn't quite as good.
yeah i said the same thing and those wires delicate
The Ortofon had a super clean sound
It sure did.
I still heard a superfluous amount of noise and distortion I wouldn’t have expected of the record before it was played on the crosley. You can even hear the oscillation of marks the stylus made bouncing in the groove. Those earlier playback experiments ruined that record.
@@MrRom92DAW I’ve always known shellac records to have a toughness level of “pretty damn,” you think that’s really what caused it?
Fuller too.
I’m using a Garrard 401 turntable and SME3009 arm. I replaced the SME headshell with a pair of heavier Ortofon SH4 headshells, one is fitted with a 2m black for vinyl and the other has a 2m 78. SME can provide a heavier counterweight. Swapping the headshells is easy but you do need to add a couple of tiny washers to the cartridge mounting screws of the 2m 78 so that no changes are needed to the back of the arm.
For playing 1930s and older records a 90 micron stylus is the best sounding alternative to an old steel grammophone head, as available for the Shure M75. Playing 1950s 78 records a 75 micron needle is fine. The oldes records (WW1 and earlier) need 120 micron needles.
🙂👍 Thanks a lot, I am busy now with our 78rpm records. I am 100% convinced now about buying the Ortofon for 78rpm. My turntable is modern Dual.
Great video.
I loved the side by side comparison at the end!
The phonograph seems to pick more details of the recording but lacks the fullness of sound of the Ortofon. It sounds fantastic!
I could tell that that 78 was a re-issue simply because of the label. The label says 'RCA Victor'; if that had been the original 1926 record, the label would have said 'Victor' only.
About 1942 on they switched to RCA Victor on the labels.
The third stylus is the best sounding to me. i actually have a lot of 78s which i couldn't play them.
I won my first original phonograph in an auction last month. A Victor model VV-IV and a whole bunch of records with it, so many I haven’t even gone through them all yet! I ordered my needles for a great price from eBay (300 for about 15 bucks).
Awesome! THAT is fun! BTW THANK YOU for that awesome record! I love it.
{RCA} Victor @/35774- "Danube Waves Waltz", by Nathaniel Shilkret and the Victor Orchestra {"International Concert Orchestra"}; recorded on March 30, 1926. This is a 1946 reissue, as the melody became the "Anniversary Song" {with lyrics by Saul Chaplin} that year [made popular by Al Jolson].
I’ve found with my 78s it’s kind of great feel wise to run my turntable with a 78 needle through a valve guitar amp, which filters out the high frequency and makes the bass sound great :) it mimics some of the shape of an acoustic while loosing less frequency!
I really like the idea behind that Ortofon "plug and play" headshell. Why haven't other cartridge manufacturers thought of that?
Agreed...
I looked into the Ortofon PNP (plug and play) cartridge at one point and it has some issues. It is pretty heavy and requires an additional weight to be added to the tonearm counterweight (at least on Technics 1200 tables). And it can't be adjusted for alignment or overhang. There's good discussion here - www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=61413
That is or was quite common back in the day as the vast majority of turntables came with the "S" or "J" shaped arm and used the SME style of disconnect for the headshells. In the 1980's, there was teh straight tone arm, typically of low or very low mass designs, Vs medium to high mass arms of the other designs and they often used the removable offset ADC style of headshell, but companies like Rega eschewed the removable headshell for a fixed unit permanently attached to the arm for a more rigid cart to headshell to arm mounting for better bass among other things and that became the "standard" so many tables use today.
Interesting - thanks for the info.....
Incredible...I think personally for my ears the old vintage record player actually sounded the best...in terms of less hiss crackle...But the Ortofon head was far better than the first two plays.Great video..Cheers Ade
Thank you sir!
I have the Ortofon 78, I bought it a while ago. Not yet got round to cleaning my old 78s, and trying it out. Thanks for the demo.
You bet! Enjoy!
This record came out in 1926, and was reissued in the 1940s.
Also, most "3 mil" styli are actually either 2.5mil or 2.7mil.
2.5mil tip works great for:
- 50s 78s
- 16" radio transcription discs (33rpm)
2.7mil tip works great for:
- Victor acoustic batwing label "78s" (majority of them) [speed of Victor batwing records are 76.59rpm]
- Columbia Viva-Tonal 78s
- 40s/50s 78s
- 16" radio transcription discs (33rpm)
- Columbia acoustic "78s" [80rpm]
- Victor scroll label 78s
- Most acoustic "78s" (speeds varied on them)
- Most electrically recorded 78s
Thank you for watching and commenting! The matrix number on this indicates a 1926 recording date but the label could possibly indicate a later release. Odd that it isn’t a red seal label.
Correct. March 30th, 1926. It was originally issued on the Victor scroll label, but this is a 1940s reissue.
adp.library.ucsb.edu/index.php/matrix/detail/800008980/CVE-34742-Danube_waves
www.discogs.com/International-Concert-Orchestra-Danube-Waves-Over-The-Waves/release/2244496
Thanks for demonstrating these different methods for playing that 78. I will add that playing a late recording like this on a 1917 phonograph (pre-orthophonic) is not giving your listeners an accurate representation of the sound capable on this record. That Victrola was meant to play acoustically recorded records and has a small horn, incapable of reproducing the lows and highs of a record recorded on a microphone. The post 1926 phonographs had a much larger horn and better reproducer, sounding much more realistic than the older models. Surface noise is simply part of the experience.
The reproducer on your phonograph was made for accoustically recorded disks, the one you played was an electric disc. A later reproducer, a metal diaphram one will sound better.
Being recorded in 1926 it is right on the edge of either being electric or acoustic. Usually electric recordings sound slightly distorted on this due to the reproducer but this one didn't - so I don't know for sure. Thanks for watching and commenting!
I'm with Greg on this, the diaphragm in your Victrola is not a metal diaphragm so it was designed to play acousticly recorded records not electrically recorded records. It does play it really well though but if you used a different soundbox with a metal diaphragm then the sound would considerably improve. Also just playing the first few seconds of an old disc will highlight any wear that is present as most old 78rpm discs which have been played with metal worn needles take the biggest hit at the beginning of the record. Btw a 78rpm suitable stylus for the suitcase machine is available. Just pop one stylus off and replace . Cheers
Cool. I need to take apart my victor talking machine and get the crank device fixed. Any sugestions on getting it fixed?
I do not have any specific recommendations, but I have heard there are people that do it. I would suggest a Google search to begin with.
Now the newer record players have a far superior sound,but, the players also do pick up the surface noise of the discs,where as the older acoustic machines may have had surface noise but if you use soft tone steel needles that noise is considerable less.
looks like an electric recording
If you have access to one, try playing the same recording on a circa 1948-56 Zenith console with a Cobra tone arm. You may find that produces the best audio quality from a 78 rpm. If you attend an antique radio show I’m sure someone there would accommodate your request.
You can get a 3 mil 78 RPM stylus for the Audio-Technica AT-VM95 cartridge and for the red ceramic cartridge.
You can actually buy 3ml styli for those cheap suitcase players. In my opinion that's all they're really good for.
To me, the Ortofon 2m is the best 78 cartridge because it is a true mono cartridge.
Definitely sounds best on the original equipment
Diamond stylus will actually cut that shellac. Shellac dust is the "dirt" you cleaned out of the tracks. Use a softer 3 mil sapphire that will ride higher in the groove. As was also pointed out, don't play electrically recorded 78's on heavy tracking acoustic Victrolas. Finally, different companies and countries had different eq curves.
Also, 78's require heavier tracking than microgroove. Yeah. get a second headshell.
This stylus was designed for shellac 78's.
The Victrola did sound amazing with remarkably low noise, but the sound was cavernous due to (I presume) resonances in the horn. I definitely liked the sound of the Ortofon the best.
Is that Ortofon 78 cartridge wired for mono? If not, then their 2M mono cartridge with that 78 stylus would sound even better, as combining the two stereo channels down to mono will eliminate a lot of the background hiss/crackle from the 78 record....
A small mono/stereo switch is probably just as effective, and can be used to cut surface noise levels on mono LPs, EPs and singles as well.
Awesome vid !!! Thank you for showing us the magic & beauty of 78 !!!
Our pleasure!
I'm already waltzing around just listening to that. Hope I can find it on eBay. Lol
I enjoyed this video so much! I have spent hours researching how to play the 78’s in the best way possible. I recently inherited my grandfathers collection of country western music, although I think the audio technica did well with the Omron 3mil stylus, I am determined to go with a steel needle phonograph machine not only is the sound better but it has much more nostalgia, sort of a creepy eerie sound! Overall leading to a better listening experience, thank you for showing the differences!
Glad you enjoyed it!
If you really want to get seriouse about playing 78's there is a whole word of knowledge on the subject. Going back to steel needle is not, in my opinion, the right way. If they have not been distroyed yet by a steel needle and your grandfather used contemporary equipment. Electric player and amplifier there is a good chans your record are saved. Would be a pity to destroy them now. Click on my name and you can listen to how Bessie Smith or Winifred Atwell from the late 20's can sound like on a proper equipment.
Fitted with an ION 78 3 mill stylus the suitcase players aren't bad at all for 78's. You can get these styluses just about everywhere, and they cost almost nothing, and it's easy to change the styluses around.
I would never use a Crosley/suitcase player for vinyl (because no matter what some claim, they simply aren't good enough), but for 78's it's a whole other matter. They are great for some one who want's to start collecting 78's (at least for a start - especially combined with the Ikea Eneby speaker), they are great to bring to thrift stores and flea markets to check 78's before buying, and if you bring it to a date (a moonlit night - for instance at the beach) along with champagne, candle lights, and Glenn Millers Moonlight Serenade on shellac, you have to be one ugly bastard not to get laid.
The 78 stylus is truly what put Crosleys on the map, and they should actually skip the 45/33 speed completely.
Interesting - thank you for sharing.
the "cheap portable record player cartridge" actually sounds about as good as a 1950s hifi phonograph (take an RCA Victor 1952 3 speed for example) a ton of people actually replace dead cartridges on old record players with them because they sound good and are cheap replacements.
Interesting. We used to use a safety pin and tape. LOL
This is an improvement over that :)
The acoustic player definitely did it best, although the Ortofon was also excellent and would be the perfect way to play 78s that can’t be played on a windup due to being later recordings, or made of easily damaged materials such as the Nicole record. IMO, the ceramic cartridge could have also performed very well if it was fitted with a 78 stylus, however the problem there is that many of the red casing “78” styli are actually just microgroove styli relabelled, so it could be difficult to find a genuine one.
This is a good comparison of the Styli,cartridges and TT's for playing 78 records.Never seen a comparison like this before.Great work!Remember with my fathers hi-fi TT he had two cartridges-one for 33-45 RPM-other for 78.I don't have any 78 records at this time-sadly the 78s I played at my Grandmother-grandfathers house got thrown out!Would have loved them!
Thank you!
@@Recordology would the ortofon cartridge fit on a victrola 3 in 1 record player (got from kohl's)
I hear the cactus needle for old acoustic phonographs reduces record wear over steel needles.
This is a very good stylus for 78 rpm, I had one for a while, but I actually prefer the Grado 78e. Both are great for shellac.
Can you tell us more please? I’m undecided between Ortofon and Grado. I believe they are both mono wired correct?
My wife was danish and we would go there a lot…i never met one dane who had ever heard of Ortofon…to me they were the best - till I discovered Japanese retips and dug out my old Shure M75 with a microline retip….which was way better than any v15 etc I ever heard AND a Shure 78rpm needle just drops in…i have a non detachable headshell,arm so thats what I need its the Linn Ittok but on a garrard 401 for 78’s
Interesting, the Ortofon was in a league of its own. Great sound.
Probably best for the newer pressings at 78speed and the microgroove 78s in vinyl pressed from about 1954.
Beautiful video. The Ortofon make a huge difference on noise reduction.
However, the last example should be play on Ortophonic Machine, not an acoustic one, because that record is an electric recording.
Yep the new 78 rpm needle sounds great,no noise
I have the same record. As far as I can remember, they make a 78rpm stylus for those cheap suitcase players.
Amazing video! If one could get the AT player to sound like the Victrola with an old 78, that would be brilliant!
I just change the stylis on my all new atlp120x to play 78's which is really nice that the cartridge is interchangeable. Just have to set the tracking force to 5g. The 78 stylis is $59 a good deal
Awesome!
$59 is kinda crazy I got mine for my older lp120 with the at95e for $20
This stylus is great for it's price but the king still is the ortofon SPU Mono 65. i'ts very expensive with 999€ new but a friend of mine found one on ebay for auction for 350€ and it was like new and now it's mine. and a few month ago another one was sold for the same price! these styli are rare but buyers are even rarer so keep your eyes open and you will find one too for that cheap for 350€ starting price and you will probably still be the only one who bids on it!
Personally I prefer the Ortofon cartridge. The only problem is that the Ortofon cartridge is a little too expensive (125 $ +) for my budget. By the way nice video.
Thank you for your comment!
Superbly put together excellent information.Loved your show. Thanks
Thank you so much!
I have two turntables, one for 78s the other for 33s and 45s. We all have our methods.
Very interesting comparison. It would also have been fun to hear it on a more modern 78 electric player from say the 1940's. They were pretty amazing too.
Totally agree. The GE VR-2 cartridge from the late 50s was a great improvement in sound reproduction. I have several Hi-Fi units in my collection with a VR-2 or a close descendants, amazing sound.
The acoustic player sounded very good too although this is very hard on records. 😉
the audiotech cartidige you got can be mounted with a 78 stylus too is what i use and is sound realy nice
That sounds like a well worn record groove to me 😏
The second micro Grove would have sounded way better if you had just lifted the left side of the turntable about 2-3 inches or untill the sound cleared up. An old trick i learned to do many wears ago to get better sound from badly worn 78s with horizontal modulation. As the wearing of the groove is mostly in the bottom and left side of the groove you can actually kinda balance the smaller stylus on the right side of the groove that is less worn to get better cleaner sound. Try it it works.
Thanks for the demo, I found the Suitcase player with the small Styli, the worst and the Vintage player had the best sound, mostly how it was supposed to sound I guess.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@Musicradio77Network I think you can get a replacement stylus for the wildcat that flips from 1 side lp to the other side 78.
I have a large collection of 78s (from early to mid-40s). Which basic player do you recommend if I am only going to play 78s on it?
I would go with an LP120X with this Ortofon 78 Cartridge.
@@Recordology Thanks!! Are there suitcase/portable players you'd recommend (that have interchangeable needle/stylus)??
Nice video and comparison. I wonder what was wrong with the line level output from the Crosley. I would get a 3 mil stylus for the Audio Technica cart rather than buy the Ortophon. In fact, I plan to do just that for my AT 120 if I ever get 78s. Keep up the good work. I’m subscribing now.
Thank you for commenting!
I actually like to play 78's on my older machines using soft tone steel needles they sound better then using full tone needles. The electrically recorded records made after 1935 to about 39 or so were not to be played on these machines, older acoustic records sounded better on these than electrically recorded records
Man that old one sounded better than all of them!!!!
Thanks , nice video
What about a cheap way to equalize pre ria ?
Great question - I've thought about this too. I would suggest getting an EQ and then googling what the RIAA curve looks like and then reversing it on the EQ.
Interesting. Will do you a video on how to clean 78's?
I would like to eventually!
Edison Diamond Disc Records CAN NOT be cleaned with water, but regular 78s can be. Obviously you don’t soak the 78s, but Edison Diamond Discs must be cleaned with alcohol.Edison ‘Needle Cut” Records are just like any other 78s, and are rare and valuable. Most 78s aren’t too valuable, but there are some that are worth Hundreds if Dollars, especially certain Edison Needle cut records. They were only made for a little over a year, ending in late 1929 when Edison stopped making all records.
I think the 78 orothon catriidge and needle and the windup 78 rpm ecord player is best for shellac
How about the RIAA equalisation curve on modern pre amplifiers not suited for 78rpm records?
Can a 78 stylus be gotten for an existing cartridge so you just slide out the stylus to change between 78 and LP/45 stylus?
This video was NEAT! I bet it was difficult to edit
Thank you! YES! It took all weekend. I kept having to rerecord the audio for various technical reasons. I finally did the VO in my car lol!
Record-ology Turned our great! The work really shows 👌👌
I really appreciate that!
Why is everyone pretending 12'' 78s are so uncommon? I have crates full of them, tons of '20s Christmas music, Columbia one-step medleys, etc. I find it very hard to believe you're the first one ever to play one on a suitcase player.
Fair point BUT you see WAY more 10" 78's when shopping for records.
Hi, Good evening, (Indian time). I have a question. To use stylus suitable for 78 RPM records, Is the cartridge too different for this stylus or Can I use 78 RPM stylus with the same magnetic cartridge.
In other words, is the Cartridge too is separate for 78 RPM stylus ?
This is why it's always good to have an old crank gramophone. I just got my RCA Victrola suitcase player and I think it plays and runs very well for being over 80 years. I doubt any of the nostalgia players with the name would last even a 1/4 of that.
I got a Crosley record player for Christmas last year, lasted 7 months ( it was my first and only record player for a while) and it died on me, literally just turned it on and the regular poof sound of the speaker happend and it straight up died. No indicator light or anything, I then bought a nice used Sony record player from a thrift store, repaired it, bought it a new needle and forgot about it.
I have the very same table and cart setup just for playing 78's which can vary in pitch. You changed the pitch on the slider for the Ortofon probably because the record was not cut at 78 RPM. I could hear that it was the wrong speed with the micro groove cart. You did not explain that - why? It's an important thing to know.
An effective demonstration, but it is a shame that you didn't try the Ortofon in a truely high-end turntable and tonearm. There is another side to playing the old shellac 78's, and that is equalisation. Microgroove records are all recorded with pre-emphasis to the RIAA curve, and so require RIAA equalisation when played back. The earliest 78's were recorded 'flat' with no pre-emphasis and so should be played back without the RIAA equalisation maybe just an extreme top-cut filter to take off the worst of the hiss. Later shellac 78's had a little bit of pre-emphasis and ill need a bit of playback equalisation depending on the label and the year, but nothing as drastic as the RIAA curve. You really need a phono pre-amp with switchable equalisation and de-emphasis filters to do them proper justice. When properly done, it can be a revelation as to just how good those old recordings could be.
So I have heard! I could take this to the next level and import the audio into audacity whereupon I can apply or remove an RIAA curve and make other sonic adjustments. However for this video I just wanted to give a cursory overview. Thank you for commenting!
Micro stylus hits 78 :me: NOOOO!!!!!!!!!
Lol no harm done
What 78 stylus should I use to play shellac 78 records on my Feir record player suitcase model?
That record did not sound like "The Blue Danube Waltz at all. Did you play the "B" side? Strangly the sound was best from the old steel needle player.
It was a variation of the Blue Danube.... my mistake!
It is called "Waves of The Danube",also known as "The Anniversary Song", the English words used on this song were I think written by Al Jolson back in 1927 or so I think
Great video....Could you review the 2M "mono" cartridge? It is supposed to make "mono" records sound a lot better compared to playing them with a standard stereo cartridge.
Thanks! That would be fun - perhaps someday!
But it should not be used for a mono micro groove record as the stylus would be 400% wider than the groove and ruin the record.
margaretsville he should’ve mentioned the best 78 carts are true mono.
True....I thought I did....maybe no?
@@Recordology You did, earlier in the video.
Last one was best by far.
Does this fit or suit all the tone arms made by whichever company
Yes it should fit all of them as it is standards based.
Thank you dear for quick response.
The 78 has different eq it's not riaa like for Lps so that's why it sounds better on the victrola
That is true.....
The ceramic cartridge was overdriven by the extream dynamics of the 78
Try playing it on a HMV 163 Exponential Re-Entrant horn gramophone , with a No 5 sound box with a thorn needle I think you will be surprised
I'm assuming this is a 2 mil stylus? Do you know if ortophon makes a 3 mil?
Wow! What a difference
VERY interesting
Can you do a video about how to change a cartridge on a Heyday Turntable. It would be so helpful I love my heyday. However I think it could use a new cartridge. I have using it with a Denon M41 receiver Amp. Thanks
Howard
Perhaps! In the meantime check out other videos I have done on changing carts. Thank you for writing!
If only You could have got your hands on a DS Audio DS002+ DS Audio Power interface as the cartridge is an Active cartridge it is expensive but worth the money.
I think the Victrola and 78rpm-stylus-versions were better!.
There are multiple reasons as why playing this record on an antique phonograph is a stupid idea. This record is from the 1950s and would have been played on an electric record player with a lightweight pickup arm. It was NOT designed for an antique gramophone.
The auld yin played the best!
No offense to your “wind-up” machine, but that is an electrically recorded record, the earliest types used a big horn and no electricity at all. After 1925 Victor, Columbia, and later even Edison used an enhanced acoustic system called Orthophonic or Viva-Tonal, etc (Edison was called Edisonic) which played as well or in my opinion Better than the earliest (1925-1927) electrical amplifiers. (I like Edison’s electrical ones, called variously C2, C-4, P-1 which is a portable and the one I have, the P-1, and P-2 are AMAZING! P meaning portable. Most Phonographs were large cabinet machines, like my Columbia Viva-Tonal 711, but most companies made wind up portable “suitcase” types. Edison’s portable had (unusually) an internal horn that was something like 56 inches long if it were stretched out. The really big cabinet types had a horn that was around 7feet long and was folded back in on itself for greater volume and fidelity. Your machine (again, no offense intended!) was an off brand. Some of the off brands were really good too, Sears had a series called Tru-phonic which were pretty good for an off brand. Portable wind ups were made well into the 1950’s, and were marketed for picnics or even hones that didn’t have electricity, which surprisingly continued into the 1930’s and 40’s in Rural or poor areas. Various size and material needles were for different purposes, thick ones for the loudest. And various woods, including Cactus Thorn were generally quieter and could also be re-sharpened with a special tool. Those wood/thorn etc needles were also easier on records. I hope this was helpful or interesting. Best Regards, David. PS/ Edison disc records used a special Diamond styli And most are still in good shape. Edison did start making steel needle types starting about 1927, but his earlier records can not be played with steel needles which will destroy the record!
This was a 40's reissue of a 1924/25 recording so its on the edge. It doesn't distort on the Vita-nola. Some of the orthophonics do due to the modulation.
Hi people help me out, I own two records from Columbia Masterworks I guess are 78 but are they really 78 records??it says microgroove, do I need a specific stylus to play it???
What happens if I play a micro groove record with a 78 stylus?
bad things happen
I thought I would never need a turntable with 78 speed or the stylus. Then I found a large set for sale at a thrift, in exceptional condition made out of schilac. 😖