FWIW, back in the day we used a pinch of kapok fiber, which would not melt and cause potential bore plugging issues. I have also heard of using cream of wheat as a filler. Don't think I'd recommend using filler with a suppressor, though. Too much likelihood of debris catching in the baffles, possibly leading to damage.
watching you fill press and measure those is therapeutic ! nice addition with the backing music too.. i love your videos high quality keep up the hard work !
We always have to be careful of what people recommend in forums and on the internet. I had did some Polyfil experiments back in the day with cast bullets and the .308 Winchester for Varmint control out on my farm. I did not have the same issue that you ran into with your .300 BK OUT.. I was using 2400 as propellant and 170 grain Lyman bullets made of Linotype. Good accurate round "Low pressure" for Raccoons, foxes and coyote once or twice too. You Know I was just thinking that you might have a timing problem with your rifle, The bullet hasn't exited the Mussel yet as the bolt carrier is unlocked and travels rearwards in the upper, thus leaving shaving of powder coat or in this case polyfil at the head of the chamber in a gelatinous state, each round builds this material up constantly ironing it out as the rifle automatically reloads itself, Just a theory of mine.. Good information Johnny, Dave.
coming from someone that has "never" used fillers, I would have choose( kpok) instead. Or if you have cat tails growing around there, that fiber inside of it might work, no plastic to worry with....... GOOD SHOW!
I shot a bunch of lead subs, if you "mortar" the stuck round it will come right out without tools. Just grab the charging handle and whack the stock on something hard preferably wood. Obviously keep your face and limbs clear of the muzzle. I've done it hundreds of times it won't set off the round, but be careful just in case. Great video as usual.
I just watched your videos on poly, cotton, and Cream of Wheat as fillers. I enjoyed them very much. If I may explain other reasons these fillers are not good to use. First poly: Poly will melt at 210F and stick to everything, absolutely ruin your suppressor, barrel, and gas system (it’s like putting sugar in your tank). Cotton: When you rub a tee shirt on smooth surface you generate a lot of heat, cotton adds that heat to the barrel. Cream of Wheat: It is heavy, adding to recoil, it does not have resiliency so the powder and filler are likely to mix. There is a filler on the market that will solve all these problems. Puff-Lon is light-weight, does not melt, is resilience plus it as lubricating qualities. You can get it on Amazon, Ebay or pufflon.com. Thanks for the video.
Here is something interesting. Hodgdon lists SUBSONIC powder data for 110gr VMax (1050fps) on their reloading data sight - TRAIL BOSS?! This suggests that the powder takes up a lot of space. There might still be some room for a 147gn FMJ (it's .200" longer, but COL .100" higher) only seats lower in the case by 1/2 the size of the boat tail (.100"). Either Trail Boss, or a powder close to it on the scale, might produce the desired results. Using LEE's cc/gr data can tell which ones take up the required space. www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
If you mentioned this I missed it, did you ever consider loading the bullets backwards to take up case space? There's examples of this back to WW1 and it comes around again every so often. I recently came across a forum where a member does this with great success on 300bo 150gr Hornady's. I'm considering it using the Lee 155 cast bullet but it doesn't have the boat tail. I'll try to DBYF.
I've been blowing .303 brass out to .410 shotshells using h110 and lilgun behind cream of wheat and find that if I don't have a good wadding seal between the two powders that they will mix. Sometimes to the point that very litle powder ignites and the case does not expand. I've foung that newsprint is best at keeping the powder in place but can continue to burn after leaving the barrel. Like previous suggestions, I have not tried it in rifle or pistol loads. I would expect less residue build up but higher velocities as you would need to pack the paper in tight to keep the powder inplace.
I am really concerned with all of these case filling options about the powder mixing. Maybe that's why I packed the polyfil in a little harder than I should have. I can just imagine that over time the powder and cream of wheat or whatever would become mixed up to some degree. Can't imagine that would result in consistent ignition. Thanks for the comment! I might give newspaper a try. And probably cotton as well.
If you are concerned with powder mixing you could try adding a layer of wax on top of the cream of wheat. Or try a soap plug. From a bar of soap. Couple bars from a dollar store are my favorite choices.
George Robartes You can also use the same paper for paper patching of bullets. I'm partial to the soap method. Works wonderfully for fire forming brass. As well as packing for low volume powder.
Here is something interesting. Hodgdon lists SUBSONIC powder data for 110gr VMax (1050fps) on their reloading data sight - TRAIL BOSS?! This suggests that the powder takes up a lot of space. There might still be some room for a 147gn FMJ (it's .200" longer, but COL .100" higher) only seats lower in the case by 1/2 the size of the boat tail (.100"). Either Trail Boss, or a powder close to it on the scale, might produce the desired results. Using LEE's cc/gr data can tell which ones take up the required space. www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
Huge Widener's Sale! 15c per bullet! Sierra, Hornady, Berger, Nosler. That's 150s, 165s, 180s. Looks like everything 308! I hope they aren't going out of business?!
+Johnny's Reloading Bench Have you tried using the old standby method for fire-forming using cream of wheat? Works quite well. :) Cream of wheat has been used as a filler since the 60's
I use a closed cell foam rope/backer rod. It's what Kynoch recommends in their big bore DGA cartridges. I load it in 450 Nitro Express and 450/400 Nitro Express. I find no trace of it anywhere in the rifle after firing.
I might just give that a shot. The neck of 300 Blackout is small enough that I could probably get a nice fitting piece of foam rope though. Thanks for the tip!
love love love the videos, and thank you so much for making them. feedback....1st time ive heard the background music jazz... not needed brother. probably more work to add it its distracting.... we want to hear you and your great personality
OK, it's quite clear. Stop trying to run a supersonic bullet at subsonic speeds. You've proven the point yourself by using the poly ( which forces all the powder to the back of the cartridge ) that the pressure is stable. When you load the 147 gr as I do with IMR 4227 that fills the case more there are No Issues !!! By having the case volume increased you negate the problem of powder lying at the bottom half of the case and causing powder burn issues. I've been loading for over 30 years and not had the problem you are trying to overcome with having to raise the rifle to push the powder to the back of the case and then lowering it slowly to get it to shoot better. Are you having the same issue with the 220 gr subsonics as well? I've watched many of your videos and you do great work, but some things seem to be OVERTHOUGHT !! Just my .02
Would you recommend a 16" barrel with a pistol or carbine gas system? I'm shooting super and subs both with and without a can. Keep up the great videos.
PISTOL!!!! Please, for the love of God, get a pistol gas system. A carbine gas system limits your subsonic powder options dramatically, and doesn't run well with a lot of factory ammo either. Just check any of my bullet testing videos for proof. My 16" with carbine gas is a huge pain in the butt. Accurate 1680 and Reloder 7 are the only powders that run it well. I bought that barrel just so I could show how much they suck in my videos.
Maybe it is discovery time. Why not try true pistol powder? There has to be another powder on the scale that takes up more room, gets us the pressure, and keeps the speed down. What powder is used for 223 subsonics?
Poly-Fil is just suppose to take up the space between the powder column and base of the bullet to hold the powder charge in place next to the primer so that you get a better powder burn. Just from observing the video it appears that your probably using way to much filler,try about half that amount and expand it somewhat before inserting it into the case and don't pack it tightly as the bullet will do the final compression. This thread may be of interest to you castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers Any organic filler is not recommended in bottle neck cartridges,it can absorber moisture an harden in place an basically form a plug inside the cartridge case causing pressure issues.
you could try the cream of wheat. but another idea would be maybe cotton balls. cotton does burn but it burns clean as in no residue. so some of it would burn and the rest would just blow out the barrel. and im thinking what is left in the rifle will just blow out because it will not be sticky like the poly and the next round firing will blow it out of the action maybe. just an idea.
I can see in there pretty well from the back end. If stuff got built up in there it's not very bad. A few chunks came out but I'm not going to worry too much about it. Hopefully it will blow itself clean as I shoot more through it.
Try vermiculite as a filler. Vermiculite is a fully oxidized non flammable non combustible mineral. They sell it at Home depot in the gardening section. Consistency of buffering from shotgun shells Light as powder
Johnn. I can help or give you info on this ,this is help only . Look at Elvis ammo on you tune 300 blackout detailed. He also builds blackout with no issue. His cases are almost filled. With no filler plugs and I think he uses different powder.might help.
I will say it again, these case fillers seem very sketchy to me. Very interesting video never the less. I was cringing for your suppressor when you where seeing us burnt ployfill and when your rifle malfunctioned I groaned out loud. I am still hoping this can be mitigated by seating the bullet deeper (the very top of the cannelure or even past it) and upping your powder charge weight? My thinking is that if the standard deviation can be reliably brought into check with a heavier powder charge then you can be more confident being closer to the sound barrier. Might not work but worth a shot.
There's not much more room to seat the bullet deeper. The ogive starts just above where we're currently seating. Of course a heavier powder charge will fix the problem. I am shooting a light powder load on purpose to create the problem. It's fun to play around with. Thanks!
I have been thinking about reloading 5.56 nato what powder would you recommend? I am just getting into reloading and have reloaded some .45ACP yet would like to reload 5.56 since there are devices to catch the brass unlike my 1911. And my brother that shoot 30.06 keeps his brass and doesn't want to shoot the rifle except to make sure it is sighted in and I told him to reload it to shoot and he asked me if I could. I am just starting out on reloading yet know how to follow the books on reloading. Just need some guidance on it. And I have that same Cabela's Calipers that you are using!
LOTS of powders are great for 5.56. Ramshot TAC, Reloder 15, AR-Comp, H335, Varget, CFE-223, H4895, IMR4895, Benchmark, man...the list goes on and on. Those are just a few favorites off the top of my head. The best way to pick out suitability for powder is to go on the powder manufacturer's websites and look through their load data. If you wanted to find a powder that would work in both 5.56 and 30-06, there are several that would work well for that.
pretty late to the party, but i was wondering if anyone thought about using aerogel as a filler? it melts at 2200 degrees, its light and very stable. just a thought.
At +100% powder and filler will not mix. If there is no place to move to. Try it with a used clear jar and two different colors of say breakfast cereal. If tightly packed then there will be no movement.
Has anyone out there tried 110 gr. M-1 Carbine bullets in the 300 Blackout? I'm gonna load some for a friend, and I was thinking that bullet might make a great plinking round so long as it would feed reliably.
Robert Tisch I read a post a while back about m1carb bullets losing part of the jacket at the cone. The end effect is similar to shooting cast in polygonal. The shaved corona sets back the cone until you can't chamber or you press the ogive into a copper ridge over the cone.
+Johnny's Reloading Bench Have you seen this video by Ammosmith? ua-cam.com/video/kJ1QsdE2oF8/v-deo.html It appears that you used way way way too much polyfill. He weighed out 1.5 grains of polyfill for each of his 30-06 loads. You used an insane amount of polyfill in comparison.
FWIW, back in the day we used a pinch of kapok fiber, which would not melt and cause potential bore plugging issues. I have also heard of using cream of wheat as a filler. Don't think I'd recommend using filler with a suppressor, though. Too much likelihood of debris catching in the baffles, possibly leading to damage.
watching you fill press and measure those is therapeutic !
nice addition with the backing music too.. i love your videos high quality keep up the hard work !
Even though this was a failure you saved many of us the nightmare of learning this ourselves the hard way.
We always have to be careful of what people recommend in forums and on the internet. I had did some Polyfil experiments back in the day with cast bullets and the .308 Winchester for Varmint control out on my farm. I did not have the same issue that you ran into with your .300 BK OUT.. I was using 2400 as propellant and 170 grain Lyman bullets made of Linotype. Good accurate round "Low pressure" for Raccoons, foxes and coyote once or twice too. You Know I was just thinking that you might have a timing problem with your rifle, The bullet hasn't exited the Mussel yet as the bolt carrier is unlocked and travels rearwards in the upper, thus leaving shaving of powder coat or in this case polyfil at the head of the chamber in a gelatinous state, each round builds this material up constantly ironing it out as the rifle automatically reloads itself, Just a theory of mine.. Good information Johnny, Dave.
Thanks man!! This is a VERY interesting vein of learning!
coming from someone that has "never" used fillers, I would have choose( kpok) instead. Or if you have cat tails growing around there, that fiber inside of it might work, no plastic to worry with....... GOOD SHOW!
I use a little dryer lint. Never had a problem.
44 special, 9mm, 40s&w, 450 bushmaster & 45acp.
I shot a bunch of lead subs, if you "mortar" the stuck round it will come right out without tools. Just grab the charging handle and whack the stock on something hard preferably wood. Obviously keep your face and limbs clear of the muzzle. I've done it hundreds of times it won't set off the round, but be careful just in case. Great video as usual.
I hope the gas tube is really good at self-cleaning with poly gumming up stuff.
I just watched your videos on poly, cotton, and Cream of
Wheat as fillers. I enjoyed them very
much. If I may explain other reasons
these fillers are not good to use. First poly: Poly will melt at 210F and stick to everything,
absolutely ruin your suppressor, barrel, and gas system (it’s like putting
sugar in your tank). Cotton: When you rub a tee shirt on smooth surface you
generate a lot of heat, cotton adds that heat to the barrel. Cream of Wheat: It is heavy, adding to recoil, it does not
have resiliency so the powder and filler are likely to mix. There is a filler
on the market that will solve all these problems. Puff-Lon is light-weight, does not melt, is
resilience plus it as lubricating qualities. You can get it on Amazon, Ebay or
pufflon.com. Thanks for the video.
Wonder if any of that plastic goop got into the gas tube?
Dont give up bro, fight the good fight !!
Good video, always learning.
well that sucks about the poly fill... hope the gas tube is clear.
I'm hoping the same! I tore apart the bolt and didn't see anything major, so hopefully that means the gas tube isn't full of crap.
Same question in my mind.
Here is something interesting.
Hodgdon lists SUBSONIC powder data for 110gr VMax (1050fps) on their
reloading data sight - TRAIL BOSS?!
This suggests that the powder takes up a lot of space. There might
still be some room for a 147gn FMJ (it's .200" longer, but COL .100"
higher) only seats lower in the case by 1/2 the size of the boat tail
(.100"). Either Trail Boss, or a powder close to it on the scale, might
produce the desired results. Using LEE's cc/gr data can tell which
ones take up the required space.
www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
If you mentioned this I missed it, did you ever consider loading the bullets backwards to take up case space? There's examples of this back to WW1 and it comes around again every so often. I recently came across a forum where a member does this with great success on 300bo 150gr Hornady's. I'm considering it using the Lee 155 cast bullet but it doesn't have the boat tail. I'll try to DBYF.
I've been blowing .303 brass out to .410 shotshells using h110 and lilgun behind cream of wheat and find that if I don't have a good wadding seal between the two powders that they will mix. Sometimes to the point that very litle powder ignites and the case does not expand. I've foung that newsprint is best at keeping the powder in place but can continue to burn after leaving the barrel.
Like previous suggestions, I have not tried it in rifle or pistol loads. I would expect less residue build up but higher velocities as you would need to pack the paper in tight to keep the powder inplace.
I am really concerned with all of these case filling options about the powder mixing. Maybe that's why I packed the polyfil in a little harder than I should have. I can just imagine that over time the powder and cream of wheat or whatever would become mixed up to some degree. Can't imagine that would result in consistent ignition.
Thanks for the comment! I might give newspaper a try. And probably cotton as well.
If you are concerned with powder mixing you could try adding a layer of wax on top of the cream of wheat. Or try a soap plug. From a bar of soap. Couple bars from a dollar store are my favorite choices.
George Robartes You can also use the same paper for paper patching of bullets. I'm partial to the soap method. Works wonderfully for fire forming brass. As well as packing for low volume powder.
Here is something interesting.
Hodgdon lists SUBSONIC powder data for 110gr VMax (1050fps) on their reloading data sight - TRAIL BOSS?!
This suggests that the powder takes up a lot of space. There might still be some room for a 147gn FMJ (it's .200" longer, but COL .100" higher) only seats lower in the case by 1/2 the size of the boat tail (.100"). Either Trail Boss, or a powder close to it on the scale, might produce the desired results. Using LEE's cc/gr data can tell which ones take up the required space.
www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
I all but givin up on cast 230gr. Scared me for sveral reasons, can't afford to replace rifle parts to save a few cents on bullets
Ok, now I'm sure I'll never try poly filling.
Huge Widener's Sale! 15c per bullet! Sierra, Hornady, Berger, Nosler. That's 150s, 165s, 180s. Looks like everything 308! I hope they aren't going out of business?!
+Johnny's Reloading Bench Have you tried using the old standby method for fire-forming using cream of wheat? Works quite well. :)
Cream of wheat has been used as a filler since the 60's
Also another method you may want to look into is to use a wad of soap(_bar of soap_)
Cream of wheat is up next! Soap, wax and that sort of thing sounds like a messy pain in the butt. Thanks!
Ever tried using buffer for shotgun shells
You're a mess... which is why your videos are interesting and fun to watch.
If I can manage to do this stuff without blowing my face off, anyone can!
I use a closed cell foam rope/backer rod. It's what Kynoch recommends in their big bore DGA cartridges. I load it in 450 Nitro Express and 450/400 Nitro Express. I find no trace of it anywhere in the rifle after firing.
I might just give that a shot. The neck of 300 Blackout is small enough that I could probably get a nice fitting piece of foam rope though. Thanks for the tip!
love love love the videos, and thank you so much for making them. feedback....1st time ive heard the background music jazz... not needed brother. probably more work to add it its distracting.... we want to hear you and your great personality
OK, it's quite clear. Stop trying to run a supersonic bullet at subsonic speeds. You've proven the point yourself by using the poly ( which forces all the powder to the back of the cartridge ) that the pressure is stable. When you load the 147 gr as I do with IMR 4227 that fills the case more there are No Issues !!! By having the case volume increased you negate the problem of powder lying at the bottom half of the case and causing powder burn issues. I've been loading for over 30 years and not had the problem you are trying to overcome with having to raise the rifle to push the powder to the back of the case and then lowering it slowly to get it to shoot better. Are you having the same issue with the 220 gr subsonics as well? I've watched many of your videos and you do great work, but some things seem to be OVERTHOUGHT !! Just my .02
Would you recommend a 16" barrel with a pistol or carbine gas system? I'm shooting super and subs both with and without a can. Keep up the great videos.
PISTOL!!!! Please, for the love of God, get a pistol gas system. A carbine gas system limits your subsonic powder options dramatically, and doesn't run well with a lot of factory ammo either. Just check any of my bullet testing videos for proof. My 16" with carbine gas is a huge pain in the butt. Accurate 1680 and Reloder 7 are the only powders that run it well. I bought that barrel just so I could show how much they suck in my videos.
The chrono doesn't lie but why does it sound like there's a supersonic crack on some of those shots?
Maybe it is discovery time. Why not try true pistol powder? There has to be another powder on the scale that takes up more room, gets us the pressure, and keeps the speed down. What powder is used for 223 subsonics?
Poly-Fil is just suppose to take up the space between the powder column and base of the bullet to hold the powder charge in place next to the primer so that you get a better powder burn. Just from observing the video it appears that your probably using way to much filler,try about half that amount and expand it somewhat before inserting it into the case and don't pack it tightly as the bullet will do the final compression. This thread may be of interest to you castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers Any organic filler is not recommended in bottle neck cartridges,it can absorber moisture an harden in place an basically form a plug inside the cartridge case causing pressure issues.
you could try the cream of wheat. but another idea would be maybe cotton balls. cotton does burn but it burns clean as in no residue. so some of it would burn and the rest would just blow out the barrel. and im thinking what is left in the rifle will just blow out because it will not be sticky like the poly and the next round firing will blow it out of the action maybe. just an idea.
OH,,,, and I like a little brown sugar in my cream of wheat! : )
are you able to check your baffles in your supressor?
I can see in there pretty well from the back end. If stuff got built up in there it's not very bad. A few chunks came out but I'm not going to worry too much about it. Hopefully it will blow itself clean as I shoot more through it.
Try vermiculite as a filler.
Vermiculite is a fully oxidized non flammable non combustible mineral.
They sell it at Home depot in the gardening section.
Consistency of buffering from shotgun shells
Light as powder
Johnn. I can help or give you info on this ,this is help only . Look at Elvis ammo on you tune 300 blackout detailed. He also builds blackout with no issue. His cases are almost filled. With no filler plugs and I think he uses different powder.might help.
This issue is related to a specific bullet. The 147gr FMJBT. I'm already a subscriber of Elvis Ammo. Love his videos!
+Johnny's Reloading Bench Only trying to help. I don't have any exp with rifle loads. I learn from all you guys.thanks nick
Why not try rice hulls?
I will say it again, these case fillers seem very sketchy to me. Very interesting video never the less. I was cringing for your suppressor when you where seeing us burnt ployfill and when your rifle malfunctioned I groaned out loud. I am still hoping this can be mitigated by seating the bullet deeper (the very top of the cannelure or even past it) and upping your powder charge weight? My thinking is that if the standard deviation can be reliably brought into check with a heavier powder charge then you can be more confident being closer to the sound barrier. Might not work but worth a shot.
There's not much more room to seat the bullet deeper. The ogive starts just above where we're currently seating. Of course a heavier powder charge will fix the problem. I am shooting a light powder load on purpose to create the problem. It's fun to play around with. Thanks!
get with Fortunecookie, he uses it with larger calibars like 45/70 but forgot if he uses it by size or weight or something
Maybe wax? The only other thing I can think of is cotton balls. Heck maybe try butter for the heck of it ;)
I'm thinking cotton balls would have been faster and easier, it's time tested it's been used to stuff teddie bear's for many years. LOL
Using Hogden 110 @19.8 grn. With 115 grain V-Max is sweetness for 300 Blk.Out!
What buffer and spring are you using on your 16" 300 blackout?
Standard carbine buffer and spring.
Thank You Sir. So glad I found your channel. Really good info on 300 Blk...👍
I have been thinking about reloading 5.56 nato what powder would you recommend? I am just getting into reloading and have reloaded some .45ACP yet would like to reload 5.56 since there are devices to catch the brass unlike my 1911. And my brother that shoot 30.06 keeps his brass and doesn't want to shoot the rifle except to make sure it is sighted in and I told him to reload it to shoot and he asked me if I could. I am just starting out on reloading yet know how to follow the books on reloading. Just need some guidance on it.
And I have that same Cabela's Calipers that you are using!
LOTS of powders are great for 5.56. Ramshot TAC, Reloder 15, AR-Comp, H335, Varget, CFE-223, H4895, IMR4895, Benchmark, man...the list goes on and on. Those are just a few favorites off the top of my head. The best way to pick out suitability for powder is to go on the powder manufacturer's websites and look through their load data. If you wanted to find a powder that would work in both 5.56 and 30-06, there are several that would work well for that.
I agree! IMR 4895 is one of my favorites and it's available everywhere right now in my part of the world.
Hornady 150 gr FMJ have a higher Cannelure and seat Deeper in to the Case 2.060-2.075 on average
pretty late to the party, but i was wondering if anyone thought about using aerogel as a filler? it melts at 2200 degrees, its light and very stable. just a thought.
What brand of red dot sight is that?
I believe I was using my Bushnell TRS-25 for this video.
Try poppy seed as a filler. you can measure it just like powder.
At +100% powder and filler will not mix. If there is no place to move to. Try it with a used clear jar and two different colors of say breakfast cereal. If tightly packed then there will be no movement.
Has anyone out there tried 110 gr. M-1 Carbine bullets in the 300 Blackout?
I'm gonna load some for a friend, and I was thinking that bullet might make a great plinking round so long as it would feed reliably.
Robert Tisch I read a post a while back about m1carb bullets losing part of the jacket at the cone. The end effect is similar to shooting cast in polygonal. The shaved corona sets back the cone until you can't chamber or you press the ogive into a copper ridge over the cone.
moral of the story....keep the lighter bullets for super loads. h110
keep plugging Thomas A Edison, came up with about 99 ways of how not to make a light bulb before he got it right.
That was about 1200. And Tesla had a lot to do with it.
Use cotton or corn meal not poly
😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
+Johnny's Reloading Bench
Have you seen this video by Ammosmith?
ua-cam.com/video/kJ1QsdE2oF8/v-deo.html
It appears that you used way way way too much polyfill. He weighed out 1.5 grains of polyfill for each of his 30-06 loads. You used an insane amount of polyfill in comparison.
Yup, that is probably true. I wish Ammosmith was still making videos. He was awesome.