Checking and recutting bearing edges on a 70's ludwig tom + SOUND FILE - Yourdrumsound
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- Опубліковано 1 вер 2016
- www.yourdrumsound.com
/ yourdrumsound
Here's a video about how to check the edges of your drums and hoe to recut them (MUST BE DONE BY A PROFESSIONAL CARPENTER).
Of course the test on a perfectly flat surface with a torch inside the shell is a MUST DO in this case (NOT SHOWN BUT DONE).
The drums are my 70's Ludwig 26x16 (13x9 not shown while playing the kit) 14x10 18x16. They have been recorded in my home studio, pretty much a dead room where there's minimal ambient influence.
The Ludwig drums from the 1970s era had a very special sound.
GOODNESS!! that drumset sounds outta this world!
It kills! One of my all time favourite.
Dave
Great to hear from you again Dave! Great video, AMAZING sounding kit now! Wow! I had a kit similar, smaller sizes though, that needed the edges recut. If I had done this, I may have kept them!!! Well done!
Hi Meekoloco! Those are great drums, I think you can find a good one out there and go back to this great sound. Since these shells are not perfectly made a lot of the re-edges work is done by hands so, if you want to do that, let's a professional company do the job.
Dave
Thanks for posting - I have the exact same kit, same size and color, except a '59. The edges are in bad shape - your video is a big help!
Awesome video. Going to check out a '76 Ludwig today that was recut. This will definitely help me with my decision.
Hi Justin! Be sure that the job has been done professionally.
Glad to be of help!
Dave
Beautiful old drum set
Nice drums my friend..good job on the edging too.
Great idea for a video! Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks Matt!
Dave
my fking god , the sound of that kit just blew me off my chair
Thanks Pawel! This is the sound I like for my kits..
Dave
Very interesting video!
Thanks man, i love your videos a lot.
Thanks a lot!
Dave
great sound
Very cool!
Nice sound. Can’t beat a Ludwig !
On the contrary, that is exactly what you do with them !
Better sustain on the toms after bearing edge work. Good job.
A lot more susain & less overtones. But i wished he tuned it a bit higher to match his original tuning. That would have been a better comparison.
Yeah I know - tuning your drums that low, what does it matter if you get some overtones? Overtones really matter when a drum is tuned high.
Baybi Go before having the edges redone I couldn’t go that low. I was amazed to hear how the tuning range was wider and stable.
Have a listen here to hear the full kit at work
ua-cam.com/video/WMbEMbpXGxw/v-deo.html
There. This is what influences a drum sound. Wood choice my ass. Great demonstration.
Have a look at the video I’m going to post in a few hours 😉
Thanks
Hello Dave, thanks for making this video. The drum sounds great. Can you tell me what the machine you used is called and any other specifics you know? Thanks.-Ed
Hi! I haven't made the work by myself. If your drum needs to be re-edged ask some custom drum builder in your area to do the job.
Dave
Hey Dave, did your 70s ludwig originally come with 30degree round-over bearing edges? Just curious because I'm looking at a '71 ludwig. I know they started cutting them sharper in the mid 70s. I really prefer the round-over cut though. thanks!
Hi Michael! In the mid 70s they changed the shell and the edges as well.
Have a look here www.ludwig-drums.com/en-us/ludwig/shell-guide
Anyhow my drums have the classic Ludwig edge, 30degree round-over as you said.
Dave
hi Bob here I just wanted to share some knowledge that I've learned from buying these drums for many years and trying to put a nice vintage kit together. I have bought Toms and floor toms from 1970 because that seems to be the last year Ludwig rounded over the bearing edges even as early as December 1970 they stopped rounding the bearing edges over and basically they just left the shells as they were with a 45 degree angle I believe they simply stopped rounding them over and for whatever reason decided to do that whether it was a cost-effective measure and figured it didn't make much difference in the sound where people would actually notice it accept people with very good ears because the 45 degree bearing edges seem to give more attack and maybe a little more projection but you lose some of the warmth I believe and maybe sustained not too sure about that so that's my take on this from experience I have tried to put a thermal gloss kit together and I accidentally notice this by buying several from 70 and 71 and once I had enough of them from each month in the year I can definitively approximate when they started or stopped rounding over those bearing edges so put this to the test and check your late 1970 drum if you have one and check out early 71 actually I had a 1970 December floor tom that had the 45 degree edges so it seems like they stopped rounding them over at the end of 1970 what does this all mean to anyone well if you want to put a kid together my advices make sure you match them pre late 1970 and post late 1970 because I don't think you would want a kit with mismatched bearing edges but it all depends what your priorities are and what is available I guess but this was a great video and I am very impressed by the workmanship that he put into this job wish he was here in Chicago I would bring him all my drums to fix! Paiste Bob
Thanks for your inputs Bob!
Dave
I’m nervous to do this to my mid 60s slingerland. It’s in relatively good shape but the edges on the floor tom in particular have some lamination separations (just on the edges). Don’t want to have any chip out with the router (which is possible even with nice solid wood)
Zach Z if you have ply separation you don’t have to recut the edges. Just put some glue inside the plies by spreading them gently with a tool. If you’re not familiar with handwork maybe ask a local drum builder to do that for you.
Hey thanks for the reply. Already did that, and sanded around the perimeter after, but still plenty of improvement for the bearing edges. Is pretty much a flat bearing. N not to flat all around. Could definitely benefit from the disc sanded at the very least
Zach Z at this point you may flat the edges on a rotary sand paper machine (or something like that) to make the edge even and then go for a gentle recut.
Great video but would like to know more! I just bought a vintage Olympic with reinforcement rings and I am 100% sure they are not totally flat.
Did you cut the inside of the shells as well? If not, why?
Hi Idan, I didn't cut the inside because the shell thickness on vintage drums is not the same all over the drum. If you try to recut the inside of the shell with a machine the thicker part will have a different slope compared to the thin side. Moreover you can potentially damage the drum.
Dave
I had my early 60's Stewart kit re-edged. Jeff Woods, from Woods custom snares did the work. He told me afterwards they were NOT flat, and had to be sanded down a bit to level out. So he squared everything up on the three drums, then redid the edges, sealing them up nicely as well. Turned out amazing, best decision I ever made. I'm going to have him redo my early 60's Coronet kit as well. I hope to do a video about my Stewart kit at some point. My advice-go to a pro, and get it done...you won't regret it. Cheers.
What router bit was that?
Whats the name of that file tho??????!!!!!
I liked the sound better before treatment. Yes, you could get a lower tuning with the bearing edges redone, but the drum sounded dull to my ear tuned lower like that. I think larger drums sound better when tuned up a bit to get a livelier, more resonant tone....and they’re louder. Nice drums though, hopefully they retain that 70’s Ludwig sound if you tune them up a bit more where the original tuning was.
Hi, it's a matter of tastes, personal preferences. I tuned them up in the "Bonham" range and those drums really sing!
You can hear this kit 26 14 16 18 tuned higher with a 6.5 supra at the beginning of this video.
ua-cam.com/video/D-hUrycq080/v-deo.html&ab_channel=YourDrumSound
Dave
I agree with you about personal taste. I went to the video you suggested and man, those drums sound great. That’s the tonal quality and sound I was looking for in drums like that. So much richer and full bodied. Really well tuned too. Great job man!
He used a round over router profile. Pretty sure those 70’s edges were 45 straight cut edges originally..
Still, roundover edges will give them a nice warm tone
Hi, great sound! I read that you have a 30 degree roundover. Do you have any experience with a 45 degree roundover?
Hi Neils, the most important thing is the apex where the head gets in contact with the edge. Then is the cut right after the apex is 30 or 45 it doesn't make any difference.
Dave
@@yourdrumsound Hi Dave, allright thanks for the info!
nice nice
hey man awesome video and work! can you tell me what is the name of this tool at 03:43???
manuel sibona drums it’s the tool that goes on the milling machine.
@@yourdrumsound thanks my friend!!
@@yourdrumsound your drumset it's killer machine
Quindi avete rifatto il taglio esterno come era in origine..Il punto di contatto e round giusto? Non acuto
I wish you would have shown the final edge in close-up. Did you recut the inside 45?
footnotedrummer hi! No inside recut.
Since the shell is not perfectly round (as all vintage Ludwig) if you put it on a machine it doesn’t spin round so the inside won’t be well done.
Dave
@@yourdrumsound ... Hmmm... I guess I don't understand. You cut the outer edge with a round bit. Wouldn't the same logic apply on the inside with whatever bit you choose? Thanks,
footnotedrummer it depends what milling machine you’re working with. In my case to cut the outer the shell leans on a bearing which is attached on top of the milling machine, so it follows the (round) profile of the shell. To mill the inside edge the process is the same, but since the reinforcement hoop was not (factory) well cut in the interior part (so not round) if we had used the same process as we did on the outer side, the inside edge cut wouldn’t have been consistent.
Hope that clarify your doubts.
Dave
@@yourdrumsound ... yes. thanks! that makes more sense. Thanks for the explanation.
Okay maybe its just me but did the drum sound better before the recut edges? I feel like it was more lively.
Xtremecarfan101 A perfectly cut bearing edge will mute the head more due to even contact around the head. That’s really all a bearing edge does is mute the head and encourage a certain type of vibration.
Agreed, much better tone before, hopefully not lost if tuned up a bit more.
I’ve told several drummers worried about the sound of a cheap kit that if they want it to sound like a 5,000 dollar kit, redo the bearing edges.
Is there a solution for a metal snare drum?
mehmet güler never if the edge has dents you can try to to fix them with some tool, but it’ll be very tough. Never had that problem so far.
Dave
Thanks; I have 66 Ludwig Acrolite and the edges are not perfect. Not so bad but problem for me.
mehmet güler id it tunes up nicely that’s not a problem! I came across different acolites with some light dents on the edges, but they’re were all pretty good sounding snares!
What router bit was used? Radius and degree?
managuamarc roundover
ok, but was this a 1/8" roundover or 1/4" or what millimeter?
With drums tuned that low, what does it matter? I was really hoping to hear the difference with high tuning, because that's when you're really gonna hear the difference.
allrequiredfields with low tuning the head rattles if the edge is not flat and well done, while there’re less problems with high tuning (I say that because I did a ton of tests before taking the decision of recutting my edges).
I had a Vistalite kit with a terrible dip on the edge on the shell seam. I could play that tom only with medium-high to high tuning to have a clear sound without rattling.
Moreover 80% of the drummers that play this kit go for this low tuning now (I’ve a rental for recording studios).
I prefer a little higher tuning but in this case it doesn’t matter what I’m up to.
Dave
@@yourdrumsound That's true. I have a similar kit Ludwig kit, although from the 60's, and my bearing edges are as bad as yours was originally. I cannot tune it very low, as the tone just disappears, but if I tune it up, it sings like all heavens. So, it's clearer from a low tuning to hear whether or not the bearing edges are good or not. With high tunings, even bad bearing edges will sound quite good, but will rattle and kill the low frequencies very quickly.
Where the different?
Not to be a jerk, but I preferred before the cut
Mi dispiace, ma personalmente sono FORTEMENTE contrario a questo genere di interventi. Il bordo battente è la vera anima di ogni tamburo, e l'hardware che vi è attaccato influenza anch'esso il suono, questo lo saprete anche voi. E non c'è modo che io continui a chiamare "Ludwig" dei tamburi cui è stato modificato l'originale bordo battente (per quanto si cerchi di ricostruirlo uguale) e l'hardware (che per inciso, "mufflerato" con del cotone non canta più come prima, ma almeno questo intervento è reversibile).
Se volevo il suono che avete ottenuto voi alla fine, mi compravo un qualsiasi set moderno.
Senza contare che quei WFL e Ludwig 3ply hanno fatto la storia della musica... e l'hanno fatta non solo "nonostante" ma anche "grazie" alle loro piccole imperfezioni.
quella sua è stata una riparazione, perchè ha riportato il bearing edge allo stato originale, siccome dal video la pelle non aderiva bene. Allora secondo te non bisogna riparare lo strumento in caso di difetti dovuti anche al fatto che hanno più di 40 anni i fusti? Uno bisogna tenere uno strumento mal funzionante? E magari col tempo peggiorare ancora di più le sue condizioni?
I like they old edges sound , sorry
..but I bet you dig this
ua-cam.com/video/WMbEMbpXGxw/v-deo.html
That’s a big bum
Tuned incorrectly for a vintage Ludwig sounds like cardboard boxes
David, who decided what is "a good tuning"? At the end of the day it's all about what works in the musical contest, and I had great result with this kit in the studio. I bet you dig this
ua-cam.com/video/WMbEMbpXGxw/v-deo.html
Cheers
Can't hear the difference, I wouldn't buy a recut kit
If you are a collectors you may prefer the drums to be as close as they left the factory. But, in this case, I use to rent them at recording studios.
Would you like if some one charge you for a kit that can't reach all the tunings (especially the lower, wich is why people want this kits) or has some rattling due to incosistent edge?
The guy who worked on my drums tried to emulate the exact profile as the original Ludwig.
Check this out for a better sound ua-cam.com/video/WMbEMbpXGxw/v-deo.html
Dude. All of this is wrong.