Will It Rust? Vinegar vs Diluted Vinegar (Forced Patina)
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- Опубліковано 28 бер 2018
- Vinegar is a common household item used in everything from cooking to cleaning, but it also an easy way to force a patina. We show you how one can utilize distilled white vinegar to achieve the best patina possible on knives or other pieces of metal. Make sure the metal is clean before attempting a patina.
Next in the series: Apple Juice
Series Description:
For those who don't know, a patina is a form of rust that protects steel from more damaging forms of rust, like pitting. It is good practice to form a small layer of rust on your high carbon steel tools for this reason.
Since there are so many ways to force a patina, this series will show different ways to achieve this and see which is the fastest, most efficient method. I will demonstrate how to force a patina using common household materials. I will show what can replace commonly used acids, such as ferric chloride or muriatic acid, and show what shouldn't even be considered.
A great solution should result in an even, dark patina in a relatively short amount of time (ideally 20 minutes to an hour). I will document the process so that if anyone would like to repeat a method, they can easily refer back to my videos.
So will it rust?
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Sharp Works
Wow, I wasnt expecting such a difference from such a weaker mixture. Thanks for showing me that I dont have to keep spending so much on vinegar for my soaks anymore
Glad I can help man. Thanks for watching
I bought a new knife , almost looks like the one you have. Washed it real good with hot water and dish soap the in a glass with the vinegar and water. Left it for 3 hrs . All came out nice and black . No more shiny knife . Washed again and dried. Added a little oil . DONE! Came out good. Thanks for the idea. The knife says Carbon steel 1066
I'll be adjusting my method accordingly.
50 50 Water and Vinegar I wasn't expecting that, great result.
Wow glad I saw this going to do some knives this week. Thanks for the share.
Oh man I’ve shined my hatchet so many times because of rust but this method looks like it will fix my issue
WOW! Absolutely amazing results! Even better than the orange juice and water.
I was just as surprised
Thank you to make this clip for me to get this into my school presentation referent sir.
Interesting. The diluted vinegar take longer but seems to make a clearly more even patina. Good to know.
Today I've spent the day looking up this . I've been making knives lately have 6 or 7 now , some deer horn handles some 3 deer jaw bone with teeth , 2 wood . I cant stand a shiny blade. I have seen alot of methods. I just found my favorite right here . The half water half vinegar, 2 to 3 hours. Thanks alot. I will subb for that...I want to begin making full time but I have no forge , I'm just cutting them out with a grinder . And toasting them . They are for me anyways, but when o do start to sell around here I will need to heat treet the right way or I will get a bad name lol.. I live in a small country town , people come from all over to hunt here . We have so many deer they walk all over town day and night. So I know I will do good here.. anyways thanks for the video, love it.
Best of luck to you! That’s really great to hear and I’m glad I could help out. Thanks for the comment!
I wonder if water composition could make a noticeable difference? I’ve seen much worse results from a 50/50 mix but that could have to do with the steel type and/or cleaning methods. Keep testing for us, I’d like to try this on a couple of my knives so your videos are greatly appreciated!
I'm glad that I can help. I'll make sure to keep posting new/different methods to force a patina.
Beatiful! But will it work with 7% or 9% vinegar?
Was or is this the best method to prevent the blade from rust? Possible with an Steel like CPM M4, which has 4% Chromium, and lastly should I dip the whole blade on an folder, also the parts where it locks up or not?
Im doing this right now on a Cold Steel Master Hunter...... fingers crossed
The result depends mostly on the type of steel too, some steel will turn bright and shine and other will develop some patina
Hello, Good evening, what is the best patina method (most darker and longer lasting)? Greetings from Argentina!
As of now my favorite methods are orange juice and the water/vinegar mixture.
Do you think that it took better because you polished/cleaned the blade from the previous test?
T. P. Brown I polished and cleaned before both tests. I don’t know what caused the discrepancies. I’ll have to do more testing.
Would the 50/50 work on Aus-8 milled steel? Thanks
From what I looked up, Aus-8 steel seems to be a stainless steel which would resist rust and patina. I haven’t used this so I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t think the 50/50 would do much to it. It probably wouldn’t hurt to try it anyway though.
Salt and hot vinegar make a crazy patina
How dark? And boil the salt with the vinager or just drop it im ones is hot?
Birchwood Casey's Cold Blue product isn't just for gun metal, use it for carbon steel blades and it will work much better, and much faster and it does provide rust protection.It's not expensive either.
Does the steel smell always linger on the food after you forced-patina the knife?
Make sure to clean the knife very well with soap and water. After which, immediately apply a food-safe oil like vegetable oil. If there is still a smell, it might be the food that you're cutting is actually rusting the knife and causing some rust to be left on the food. I've noticed this with apples or other acidic foods.
I'm confused. I've tried twice now to patina a knife blade and a multi tool and nothing ever happened even soaking overnight. The steel was properly cleaned and I followed several mixtures and nope- nada. Looked the same. What am I doing wrong? Thx.
The metal could be a type of stainless steel. Since patina is a form of rust, the alloy steel is preventing this rust from forming, which is a good thing for the most part. Patina will only form on carbon steel knives/tools.
@sharp works looking to do this on one of my japanese knives, it being high carbon, and not stainless steel would this effect the Damascus at all?
Damascus steel is made with alternating layers of high carbon and stainless steels. This process should make the pattern a little more vibrant and darken just the carbon steel layers.
I have a knife that has a protective coating. Only the edge is vulnerable to corrosion. Will the vinegar effect the coating?
@@hondmilodoggo usually it shouldn’t affect the coating
So I could leave the coating on the knife and every once in a while give the knife a vinegar bath to give scratches and the edge a layer of patina?
@@hondmilodoggo yes that should work. If it’s not the desired effect then I would suggest stripping the coating and sand the blade to get an even patina.
Should you wipe off the blade after you patina it or let it sit and dry of naturally?
I would let it rest for an hour and whipe the exess carefully off whith a papertowel. Patina needs oil to cure out correctly, if you dont use it, it might convert to red rust and not harden correctly. I had that on my flintlock too.
Did you then put the piece soaked in just vinegar into the 50/50 mix to see if it would even out the patina?
I didn’t try that but that would’ve been a good idea.
Do you have to reapply a patina every time you sharpen the blade?
Sharpening will take the patina off just the edge of the blade which shouldn’t be a problem in terms of rust prevention. Reapplying a patina shouldn’t be necessary as long as you don’t mind a shiny edge.
What kind of steel is the blade? That could make a big difference.
1095
Can I use Renascence Wax after that to protect the metal?
Yes absolutely
How concentrated is the vinegar itself? Around here it is normally 5-7%, but you can also get vinegar acid which is 32%
This one is 5%. Do you know if you can get 32% from stores or is that like specialty item I would have to get online? I never knew that but it makes me want to try it out as a patina solution.
Sharp Works Stop bath for photo revealing (Ilford IN-1, for instance) is an 80% acetic acid concentrated. It's a "little" more than that 32%, but if you want to give it a try...
I know this is many years later, but be exceptionally careful if you ever use/handle more concentrated acetic acid. It is extremely corrosive and dangerous, including inhaling the vapour.
Is a forced patina better than a natural patina or are they the same ? Please do answer
They will do the same but a natural one will most likely be deeper and help protect better. The forced patina typically is more uniform in color.
Does this scratch of easily? I want to do this on a Swiss army knife.
After every patina video I sand off the old patina and it takes me quite a bit of sanding to get it all off. This etched deep enough that you would have to scratch off a decent amount of material on the knife.
No, quite hard to scratch it off. I patina my 21" machete and hack thru trees, vines, rocks and nails. Still won't come off.
Could you tumble a blade after doing this to get like an acid wash look? I like acid wash knives but don’t want to deal with dangerous chemicals
Yes, I don’t see why this couldn’t be used for that.
@@SharpWorks thanks!
If you soaked the entire knife, will it damage a wood handle? Or what about G10?
I never actually tried but I know vinegar can be used to give wood an aged look so it may not be so good on wood. As for the G10 it may discolor it but that’s something I would need to test out before I can say for certain.
Ehud's Edge if you soak a wood handle in vinegar it will forever smell like vinegar. Forever.
@@enzowarren9832 so not true. I've used vinegar to age lots of wood including my dining table, and there's zero smell after a day.
Hi,
Looks like that that 50% vinegar 50% water gives the darkest and very even result. Initially it was 5% vinegar so you deluted it using water to about 2.5%. I have a folder with CPM-M4 steel and want to force patina on it. I would appreciate any recomendation how to do it better. Is patina really helps to prevent rust?
Thanks in advance!
I have a playlist where I tested a bunch of different solutions, some worked better than others if you are interested: ua-cam.com/play/PLk4nSf_Ycjz59GDFbXXCHjMozjD8R33t-.html but if I’m not mistaken I think I had the best results with the water+vinegar and water+orange juice. Those two solutions gave a nice dark patina in a decent amount of time. You can try boiling vinegar and leaving your knife in the hot solution for a bit. I haven’t done a video on this yet, but it requires you to watch it a lot closer so you don’t overdo it and ruin the knife (it should take anywhere from 15 minutes to 1.5 hours depending on the effect you want). From looking up your steel, it seems it is stain resistant, meaning it’s not stainless, but it’ll prevent rust better than 1095 or other pure carbon steels. It will also take a bit longer to achieve a patina than the steel I use in the video. Although I never tested your particular steel, I believe you can still get a patina on it, I just don’t know how long will take you using the methods that I’ve tested. If you do try it, please let me know how it comes out.
I have found patinas don’t protect the knife completely from rust, but it really helps prevent it from being a problem. It’s like an extra layer of protection. If you have a patina and oil on the steel, you’ll be golden at preventing against rust.
Hey there. Did you force patina on your M4?
How did it go?
I have an M4 folder on the way and definitely want a solution! Thanks in advance 😁
Is this on SS or regular steel?
Regular carbon steel
Hello, I thought the vinegar has to be hot, has to be apple or cider vinegar, and will not work in stainless steel as your two model knives in the video, but I think was wrong.
These knives were made from carbon steel. You’re right that this won’t work on stainless steel. Heating the vinegar will make the reaction happen faster, but is not needed.
Can you do that to brass or copper?
This process would work on those metals as well as the carbon steel that I showed in the video. I believe the color will look different.
Sharp Works Ok thanks.
Is that applicable to stainless steel too?
No
Did you wipe down the blade on the first try ? Looks as if something on the blade was not allowing the pure vinegar solution to get to the blade........
No I just put it right back in. That’s why I was shocked when it happened
Did you boil the vinegar first
No I just used it straight from the bottle
Why does a less acidic solution create a better patina in this case?
I noticed that acidic solutions, although commonly are good for patinas, aren’t the main things that cause a patina. From all the tests I’ve done, a great solution could have a similar pH as a bad solution. I think adding water adds more oxygen to the solution. More oxygen, = more oxidants (aka patina). I’m not 100% sure about that but that’s the conclusion I can draw from all of my different solution tests.
idk, i think water is the best solution to add any other liquid to in order to create some type of medium that is balanced.
Works on stainless steel?
Unfortunately no. This will only work on high carbon steel.
Is this working?The knife won't rust after this?
AzirX the knife will still rust slightly but as long as you oil it afterword, you shouldn’t have to worry. This process protects the steel from pitting and corrosion, although it is still possible, just less likely.
Thank you.
@@SharpWorks Does the knife always rust slightly after forcing a patina or just in the 50/50 method because of the water?
@@twobitt2222 any way you patina a knife, it’ll rust a little. The only way to combat rust is to oil the knife. A knife that is oiled and has a patina will take longer to rust and be less likely to rust when compared to a non-patina knife.
@@SharpWorks Is vegetable oil a trustworthy way to keep a brand new blade from rusting? I’m getting my first carbon opinel!
Stainless?
This will not work on stainless steel.
is there a reason how this happened?
I’m really not sure what caused the change in the patina
Heeey, was it hot vinegar/water+vinegar or cold? The tutorials I watched used them boiled
I assume they boil it to speed up the process
I used room temperature vinegar and water in the video, but if both are hot it will make the reaction happen faster.
Are you also surprised by this test
But will it rust?
Good experiment,I could have really enjoyed this video if it weren't for the annoying sound traçk
And then you shut off the camera, rince your damn knife and see the nice black oxyde wiped off on your finger. Right??
That's my results with an Opinel and the Jakaripukko, both carbon for sure, degreased each one with different products (alcohol or degreaser).
Once rinced off, the steel keep an light gray even surface but seem kind of fragile when rubbed on hard material. I'm on the third passe actually.
What are your final long term results mate?
Thanks anyway.
Stupidocrate through my testing, I found that it depends on the solution, concentration, and the metal. Sometimes it does exactly what you described where the dark black will wash away and you’ll be left with light grey. Sometimes it stays dark after I apply oil to the metal. I haven’t been able to predict when it will say or wash off. The metal used in the video is 1095 high carbon steel.
Some of the patina can be scraped away with use, but I use it more to protect the knife from damaging rust and corrosion and less for looks. The darker the color, usually means the deeper the patina, the more it’ll protect the steel. My video is to demonstrate what solutions get into the metal deep enough to protect the steel, not just to make it look black. If you’re trying to achieve a dark color, you may want to try cold blue. It will rub off after a bit of use, but it should get the dark color you’re after.
@@SharpWorks Ok thanks a lot. I'm not after the coloration, but in my mind with your example, darker means proofer. Probably a misconception.
In my case, the darker just say "I'm eating your steel" but once washed away there is just less steel but not deeper patina, I believe.
The second round was perfectly even, the third one crap as hell with big stains. I added mustard on it.
The title is "Will it rust" ??????? You never discussed that. You should have gotten the blades wet and let them sit for a while....or change the title.
It’s a series title. If you read my series description, it will explain the name. In general, a patina is a form of rust.
@@SharpWorks But isn't the point of putting a patina on the blade for rust protection ? It would have been nice for you to show if it was effective.
@@gregbarry5875 Yes, a patina is for rust protection, but it is still a form of rust, just a good kind. Typically the darker the steel gets, the better the patina, the better the rust protection. This is just one video; I have a whole assortment that shows good and bad solutions. If you're looking for a good patina solution, I would recommend orange juice. I got great results from that.
As far as showing if a patina will protect against rust, there are other videos on youtube that demonstrates a patina's efficacy. This one shows a great comparison: ua-cam.com/video/O7ZThs1y8xs/v-deo.html&ab_channel=SelfMadeProject
The point of my videos in this playlist is to demonstrate what solution will give a good patina, not how good a patina will protect against rust. All of the solutions should create a patina similar to the "Acid" knives in the above linked video.
Thank you for the idea though, I will make a video in the future that tests a few different solutions to see if there is a difference in rust protection.