How to Remove Rust And Patina
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- Is your shiny knife now ugly and hideous? Did the knife develop rust or unsightly oily marks that won't come off? Maybe you bought something you did realize was a carbon and not a stainless knife. Even stainless knives may develop a bit of discoloration. It may take months or even years to develop but it can happen to stainless knives too.
Learning how to clean your knives is important. Some people do not like patinas formation on their knives, and some do. Sushi chefs will often clean their carbon steel knives daily to keep patina away. It is personal preference, but here are a few ways you can clean your knives.
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I just coat my carbon blades in mineral oil after washing. Works really well to mitigate rust. I have one knife that is heavily patina-ed, but a good patina prevents a more insidious rust issue from starting, so I've left it.
Got inspired and decided to give my first pair of carbon steel kitchen knives a make over. They were bought in the late 70´s and has never been polished since. Their patina looked like something geological, but no rust. A few minutes with bicarbonate on a damp cloth took away 95% of the discoloration. It gave the knives a kind of matt finish though. A polish with with Autosol made my day! Will be followed by Naniwa stone treatment of the egg up to 10.000 :)
So you removed 40 year of interesting Patina telling the story of the blade to return it to a plain lifeless object😂😂
Really helpful clear exploration of different methods.
Awesome video, explanation, observations! Fantastic stuff, thank you for taking the time to make the video! :D
Excellent program. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Perfect video title. I love chef knives and denim!!!
This is such a helpful video. Thank you!
I'm so glad!
Thanks for the info Ryky!
I have a question about removing patina: I already have sandpaper ranging from 1500 to 10,000 as i do some woodworking and jewelry etc. Would you recommend using them to get a mirror polish on my knife side?
Walter Sorrells did a great video on this subject called "Caring for Carbon Steel Knives". The hard black patina that sets up is called Ferroferric oxide or mill scale and is non destrucive. This is what sets up on old wrenches and tools. Ever notice how those old tools rarely develop red destructive rust and corrosion or pitting despite being minimally maintained? Of course that patina can be removed with acids, or repeated exposure to acidic foods. Wipe it as you use it...wash with soap and water when you finish, dry it ,light oiling with edible mineral oils, or even PAM...Thats about the only thing I use PAM for😃and store in a wood block.
Bar Keepers Friend works like magic.
How often are u use it for your carbon steel knife ?
Great Video..Thanks
Great video didn't know about the erasers till now
they are awesome.
Is the same true for Kamisori and western straight razors? I use Jnats for my edges but I’ve been starting to restore older Kamisori razors and they are carbon steel wrapped around iron, but they have the patina and rust too. Can I use these techniques on them?
Simple trick with removing patina, you don't
Well now that wouldn't remove the patina now would it. 😉
That’s similar to sticking yer bum oot the windae and running oot to throw stones at it.
As a knife maker I’d like to second this notion.
@brierley5544 I would not say that removing patina from a knive translates to properly maintaining it, quite the contrary. I still think OP did a disservice by removing the patina since it acts as a barrier to avoid food interacting further with the steel.
After 4 years I still think OP is a complete tool for doing that.
And he did it to a Masamoto which is outrageous.
@@PaladinJenkis I was once a WoW player who hated the world like you... Then I had grow up and take care of my dying grandma. Try to make the world a better place you pussy.
My father-in-law (who is 100 years old) had some old knives that he had from when he had a farm back in the late 1930s - 1940s. Hogs were his main cash crop. He has these ancient butcher knives, boning knives, etc. He asked me to clean and sharpen them. What a job!Something I remembered from my time in the Navy is a product made by LOCTITE called Naval Jelly. It is caustic, so use gloves. put some on a rag or brush (that you aren't planning to reuse) and apply liberally. Leave it on from 15 to 30 minutes depending on how bad the rust is. Rinse well. That will get rid of the worst of it. Then I used the Rust Erasers.
I use a jeweler's loupe (8x Canon) to get a close-up. The edge was jagged and both blade and edge were pitted and chipped. Cleaned and I just have a bit more to go on the edge. I think he'll like them.
I apply a bit of patina to the spine and upper surface of the blade on my CS knives using distilled vinegar. It won't rust through the layer of magnetite (black rust) it won't be forced to convert to Hematite which is the Red Rust that you do not want. I then sharpen the edge and polish the edge and lower part of the blade as I like it. It's pretty easy to stay on top of it after that.
thank you for the great info/video thumbs up / subbed
But isn't a good thin layer of patina actually protecting the knife from serious rust?
I leave the patina as is, i think it adds to the appeal of a carbon steel knife, and it shows use.
it is also why i like knives with dark kurouchi finish,
I only give the edge a mirror polish finish, and it stands out even more when the knife is a little bit gritty and used and acts as an awesome contrast between the edge and the body of the knife.
This is at least my personal preference.
I also likes the knife with good amount of coloured bluish purple patina on it...
@Thomas K thanks alot buddy this is very informative...
@Thomas K patina in carbon steel can take a yellowish, reddish or brownish tint depending on what kind of carbon steel we're talking about and where it is at in its patina... if you ever force patina a knife you'll see it go through all of the stages. the blade will at first just show the oil slick rainbow colors that play with the light, then some darker yellows, reds and browns come out, and finally the blade starts to turn to satin grays and blacks. as long as there is no raised surface rust forming and no pitting is being eaten into the blade you are in good shape, and it will protect the blade from either of those forming so easily.
My problem with the patina getting to heavy is food tends to stick more than a clean shiny blade.
Acid etch it with ferric chloride or a cheap trick, heated cola light (leaves a very even oxide layer, as if it's painted) you can turn a blade pitch black in just a few cycles.
Thank You
Lansky eraser block works great too.
Thanks!
A little trick that I use that cheap and effective is a chunk of leather with a bit of CBN emulsion applied to the leather. It works very well.
Hello, I'm Kinda new to Japanese knives and sharpening. I now own 2 Miyabi Artisan Santoku (Regular and rocking) on a buy 1 get 1 free promotion at JA Henkels. I recently bought a used Nakiri knife from Japan on eBay for $32 to practice on. Due to your videos, I was able to get a really nice razor-sharp edge. Now I love using that knife because it was so inexpensive and no afraid of damaging it. Anyways that knife was well used when I got it, so when I clean it and inadvertently not dry it completely within a few hours it will develop rust spots where the water was located. Is this normal? If not, the tips on this video will help or is there something more that I should do?
What grid or micron did you use first? And which one did you use last?
Thank you for the polishing tips. What if you want to keep the patina but you just want to smooth it out and soften it and let it keep growing? Like you said it's hard to keep it off altogether you might as well just get used to it and live with it...
- I have an old Sabatier carbon chefs knife and I love that knife, but I prefer for the blade to be rust and patina free, thankyou for the tips !
Greeting from Greece. Indeed the video is very helpful but what do you do when you have some mild rust on a knife with Kurouchi ?
Super useful thank you.
Glad you think so
one of the things that I found out on removing patina. I had a carbon knife that I didn't use quite frequently and someone else had cutted lemons with it. After about 30 secs without paying attention, I came to my senses and told him to wipe the knife immediatly. But then I realised that the acidity of the lemon had removed the patina. As long as you take proper care of the knife and sharpen from time to time, you can remove patina with lemon juice and wipe right away after the patina comes off
Great video, steel wool with toothpaste works great, also can add some baking powder, that's all I have done for many years. Thank you for sharing.
Love your videos! I have a knife that I bought in japan where the handle broke. Could you do a video on how to replace a handle?
yeah. that's coming really soon
There's nothing wrong with the patina building on the knife, as long as no actual rust forms it's safe. I have knives that are close to 60 years old that I keep the patina on. It protects the blade itself as well as keeps a near glass smooth finish on the blade. The patina comes from the fats or protiens in the meats and vegetables that it's used to cut.
:3 Oh, thank you for the info. I notice it patina on my knifes but have no idea where it comes from.
look ugly tho i need shiny so i dont look poor
So I forced a patina on a petty sized vintage Sabatier ****Elephant (the nomenclature is only on the handle) since it was getting a lot of use by going through citrus and other foods that crap up a blade. It's my absolute favorite knife and I recently found it at a thrift store for $.25 to boot! I figured that I'd try to protect the blade further since I get called away from my prep table often (I'm the Chef de Cu in my kitchen and have to do manager stuff all of the time!). I turned it pretty dark with the hot vinegar bath and don't like the look of it. Sure it'll make using the knife more care free but it bugs me to look at it. It's as blue-black and actually shiny as I've ever seen one turn from forcing a patina. It looks like a mistake! Would you think that the rust eraser would be my best bet for cleaning up my fave? I'd like to clean it up and try to naturally achieve a new patina through use. I recently have come across your videos here and really dig them. Thanks a bunch for your advice and research!
My masamoto gyuto was good for the first day. I used it to cut a tomato the next and I felt a complete difference. Is it supposed to get that dull so soon?
tomato juice is acidic and the typical culprit of flash patina
those who want to keep their nice rainbow patterns tend to be quick on the rinse after cutting it
How would you do this with damascus knifes? wouldnt that also scratch off the pattern?
Did you ever try using a metal polish like FLITZ. I used it on a japanese carbon knife that had developed a patina
and it work with a micro fiber cloth.
Metal polish....is that food grade?
Hey Burrfection! greatvideo as always, but I have a question about carbon steel maintenance.
I've heard of a lot of people using mineral oil to help maintain their carbon steel knives, but I was wondering if this was fully necessary/if it was something you do. Also, do you use carbon steel knives or mostly stainless steel?
Great question
Depends. For Sushi chef they mostly use carbon steel you the knives such as Yanagiba, Usuba, Deba, etc. But for kitchen use i recommend stainless steel (super steel like Ginsan, SG2/R2). And there is a lot of knife that have san-mai construction with carbon steel at the core with softer stainless in the outside. Is great for knufe in the kitchen but for Sushi chef a prefer a carbon steel knife.
Personally, I have found that a patina really helps mitigate the acrid metallic taste left on acidic foods cut by non-patina carbon steel. I find the patina aesthetically appealing as well, but over that, it's very practical.
Why one would want to remove it, for what I assume is purely an aesthetic preference, is beyond me. Please educate me.
Good question is, is patina edible? Although it makes the knife look kool but does it contaminate the food passing through it as you cut through???
Great video. Is there any way to avoid rust or patina? Would applying light mineral oil help prevent rush or patina?
Patina is the natural barrier against rust. Don’t remove it.
I own a 1000/6000grit King KDS whetstone, do you think the 1000grit side is good enough to remove patina that forms on the knife?
1000 is more coarse than I'd want to use. In general, I'd say a stone is too hard, especially if it's not flat. The fine Sabitoru rust eraser Ryky used is great and the medium is all you need to clean your stones.
Wait is baking soda not sodium bicarbonate ? I'm confuse. Not know where to buy it
Bar keepers is the best, I use first bar keeper and then use the eraser.
To be honest there is nothing wrong with the pertina, if it is a problem for who is considers, I would say buy Japanese knives made from Stainless steel, I think the pertina is charming, but ofc for showcasing it could make sense, anyways just my opinion, great vid! I btw love my Masmoto knives!
Hi,
is there a video wich shows how to make the handle waterproof?
or can you tell me?
I just used linseed oil but i don´t like the finish and it is nt waterproof i think.
Thanks
soon
You mentioned that you waterproofed the handle. how did you do that?
These days just use clear cerakote.
Wo! The rust eraser are 3x the prize in Canada :o
How did you do the handle? I'm curious to know how did you made it water proof. Im using a mix of beeswax and walnut oil, but that's not staying very long on the handle.
will have a video coming out soon
Go to Lee Valley if you have one near you. 20.00 for all three grits. Different brand though.
Same reaction when I went on amazon.ca to order them :( I had to order mine from amazon.com. The price was still decent AND they shipped to Montreal for once!
I really believe the other poster about using Bartenders Polish, that is great stuff. But, carbon knives must be cleaned often in use and dried.
How do you repair minor pitting?
The patina I don’t mind, but just got the bob kramer euro line carbon knives. They already have rust spots, which I find very frustrating.
Send them to me. I have a nice set of Wustoff I’ll send you. Actually, I’ll send you all my knives. I have a lot.
Very informative. Thanks.
Where would a Scotch abrasive pad fit in here i wonder? When i was a metal worker many years ago we used them on wheels to polish stainless.
scotch abrasives may be a bit TOO harsh, but can certainly work.
3M do a grey ultra light pad and an even lighter white one for light duty cleaning. I'm guessing they'd do a nice job, though the Japanese made erazer probably has the edge since it's purpose made and reasonably priced. My CCK cleaver is carbon but i've trained myself to keep it dry and never needed to remove rust.
what about toothpaste and a cloth? I used to polish chrome very effectively removing rust with simple toothpaste.
Hi Ryki I have a 10 year old set of Global knives that have developed black micro pitting all over the blades. Makes obtaining a good edge very difficult. I don't think it can be removed as it is not just on the surface. Any suggestions to maybe work around it re the appearance and function of the blade?. Thanks.
is the pitting on the SIDE / profile of the knife, or just the cutting edge? i would clean the entire profile with a medium rust eraser, amzn.to/2wI0JPc, that'll "clean the knife. then, after, maybe grind down .5mm of the cutting edge to expose a new edge.
Burrfection thanks for the reply. Pitting is pretty much over the entire knife blade, sides, edge, spine. I'll try the eraser as I've never used one before.
I am the 1000th who liked the vid 😄 👍
Hello!
Where do yo buy the earasor bar from and what should I write in the search buy?
Try "Sabitoru" on Amazon
Good instructions for good results!
I think you would probably want to keep the patina, as that prohibits rust.
Also you can use polishing paste from headlight repair kit. Rust is main problem since it progress thru metal. Patina is just discoloration of the top layer, its non progressive and it more protect the metal then harm it.
gentlemen the results speak for themselves and carbon patina is damn manly and nice if you ask me
@Gus W My Patina on my Kramer/henkel's Chef knife took a bad turn, and I hated the way it looked. looked great for a long time, but started to look dull, and dirty instead of the attractive patina it had before. Just took it all off, just so I could watch it change, again. So far looks great. Sometimes it's nice to just start over, and see what happens. I'm also better at caring after it now, and wipe it a lot more often and the patina is much more colorful and blueish tint allover. Sometimes it's just nice to start fresh.
I see the patina like the scars to the knife. Thats all the history in the kitchen its been gone through .
You can try using the liquid diamond, or come in different grit range use rub it with a cloth with a eraser behind it.
interesting.
Why not use polishing compound? As in the stuff you would use on a polishing wheel to make a mirror polish?
Great suggestion! Does it work without a buffing wheel?
Burrfection i have bought some highly recommended stuff but haven’t tested it out yet. I bought it for my leather strop. But I’ll let you know if it removes the chicken breast patina off my custom knife.
Let me know the name of product if you like it
@@Burrfection I did some polishing on a folding knife and it's nearly a mirror polish with little effort! It's called 'Schmidts Polermedel AB New Blue' I think I paid £10 but I got enough to last several lifetimes!
Burrfection I posted pics on your fb group of my custom knife that I polished. It took five mins to go from a heavy patina to a perfect mirror polish. Check it out!
FYI... I use Mothers Polish for my knives. Ive removed a heavily patina knife with it, which we all tend to have on our garage. It also doesn’t scratch the surface.
I put patina on my Mora GM and looks great..I left it outside to see if will rust? Nope no rust...Patina was made with lemon,vinegar and mustard...
I have some actual rust dots on my knife. Especially on the Kanji symbols, do you think the eraser works?
Yup.
@@Burrfection Thanks man!
Does the platina affect the knife in any other way than the way it looks, or is it just a cosmetic thing?
Would you please make a video on how to treat wooden handles?
All the best!
yes, it CAN. some knives that form a REALLY heavy patina too quickly will leave a bitter metallic taste on food, and can actually make foods like onions change color before they are cooked. that video for the handle is coming out really soon.
Burrfection thank you!
Would these methods work on a Damascus knife? I wouldn’t want to ruin the pattern
Hi Austin, to my knowledge you can not as such ruin the pattern as it is from the actual forgeing of the knife so it is not skin deep, but actual all the way through different folds of the knife steel when it was forged! Damascus steel is beautiful!
washing soda can be made very easily with baking soda, which is cheap. all you need is baking soda and an oven. about 1/2 inch baking soda in a tray at 400° F for an hour, stirring 1-2 times. for laundry, cleaning knives, etc!
also not mentioned is a forced patina, used to coat and hinder further rusting/patina that forms naturally, building a barrier of sorts. carbon steel blades, apart from maintaining an extremely sharp edge, can be easily customized for some unique looks. mustard, lemon juice, or vinegar and imagination are all you need for some cool designs.
basic maintenance is easy- a simple wipe down with olive oil, or similar, with a cloth after use will maintain the stunningly sharp blade for a very long time.
no links provided since any google search provides multiple links. Check out some customized forced patinas on carbon steel!!
i don’t wanna lose my patina cuz i worked hard for that shit and wear it like a badge of honor. mainly trying to rid some of the rust
Washing soda is baked baking soda. 500F for an hour. Excellent cleaning agent in laundry too. Thanks for the knife skills !
I love patina
The best way to deal with patina on reactive high carbon steel knives, is just get used to it. It'll help protect your knives from the accursed rust.
Do you normally answer viewer queries? John in Texas
Can I use vinegar instead of water with the Arm and Hammer?
vinegar does a really good job as well, but you have to remember to really wipe clean. i used vinegar in this video ua-cam.com/video/gSzOBDPV6ns/v-deo.html
once cleaned up, is there a way to prevent the stain/patina from creeping back?
not really. applying mineral oil will slow it down
if keeping the patina off the metal is impossible then how do i darken the steel with consistent and even patina so it wont look gross.
the carbon steel woks are taken through applying series of heating n cooling...will that work?
thanks for the reply
@@nmssis dunk your blade in hot vinegar for as long as the color you want is achieved. Does not take long. That should give you a even look
I'll try that...thanks!
Once it is de-patinaed or from new, coat the knife in Renaissance wax. It is a food-grade micro-crystalline wax.
Call me crazy but I've tried kind of seasoning it like you would cast iron pots and skillets, bring the blade up to temp a bit (nothing too serious, don't wanna affect the temper) then rub oil into the heated metal (the heat kinda opens up the material and "accepts" the oil, at least that's the theory.. hehe idk if it truely works but I tend to find/feel that even after washing, the blade remains more oily and doesn't patina as fast as in comparison to a normally oiled blade.
Could still be placebo tho hehe.
I have never have had a pure carbon knife but why aren’t you trying vinegar and water. I know the heat method might make the knife brittle but the vinegar also works on cast iron, some people use lye. All food grade acids.
I like some types of Patinas, but when I remove a patina in order to put a new type of Patina in its place, I'll use Mother's Mag Wheel polish and then just rinse & repeat , until I have the desired results.
Barkeepers friend works for me... didn’t scratch in any way and polishes any red rust marks away
I use bar keepers powder with a green scrub/sponge on all 10 of my 1905 - 1930's Carbon Steel knives and then light oil. I have maintain them for over fifty years. I like the patina which is easy to get and maintain at any level you want. I use barkeepers mainly to re any rust or real dark staining. Like getting up in the morning to find the wife used one of my knives cutting lemons for her margaritas. LOL
Evaporust is the best. Soak over night and it’s gone completely!!! You need a vertical vessel so the handle doesn’t get soaked.
I use sodium bicarbonate and I use it with 2000 grit then 2500 grit then 3000 grit wet dry sand paper. That sand paper is cheap. The combo works very well.
I like having a nice patina anyways. No orange rust though, please.
I love patinas!
I use a product for cars it's "belgom alu" and for my misono sweden steel i have a very good result
u save my day.work so well.real fast.
Patina is nice but there are some folks that prefer a really clean knife. Likr sushimen for example. How many sushimen at an omakase place have you seen with yanagibas and debas covered in patina?
The word you were seeking is: Sheen :P
Thank you r y k y
i think the patina is what makes carbon knives special. but thanks for the educational video
i get you. this is was just for people who have been asking for a way to remove patina.
Maas, Simichrone, or Case Paste on a small rag will bring that knife to a Mirror polish in less than 5 minutes. It looks like pink toothpaste and it will leave your rag jet black from the ultra fine abrasives. Mass will be available in some grocery stores, the other two will be harder to find. I use them all the time on high quality pocket knives so have no reason to think they will work on chef knives that usually costs less. Only concern would be Food Safe. I doubt these metal polishing companies will worried about Food safe when developing their products. All are around $10 and a little goes a long way. I’d go with Maas and then wash thoroughly.
Where to get eraser bars?
bur.re/SBeraser
Use any Anti Calc solution.:-)
Cover the knife with anti calc solution, and leave the knife soaked for 5-6 minutes.
Takenl scotch-brite and scratch your blade. Wash it with hot water.
Barkeeper's friend, sodium bicarbonate, and Nevr dull didn't work... I have a Spyderco Military in 52100 steel...
Skip the chemicals and the sandpaper. Use coke and a kitchen sponge. Works on chromed surfaces as well.
3:52 sodium bicarbonate most definitely is baking soda
He might be thinking of baking powder, which is baking soda mixed with an acid to help levening, which isn't what you want for a blade. I was confused at first myself as well.
The Patina is there to protect the blade & should not be removed Unless your knife is rusting. While (Rust) & (Patina) are both forms of oxidation, rust will eat into the edge and cause damage to the metal, whereas a patina will form a sort of finished seal that can prevent corrosion and future rust damage. When constantly removing a properly formed Patina you are only creating tons of microgrooves and spots in the carbon steel, These grooved and spots you are creating are now giving (Rust) the perfect home to move into. Rust not only loved freshly exposed carbon steel it love a cozy rough surface to bunker down in. I don't care for opinions as they are meaningless words without facts to prove them. The statement I just made is a fact & not an opinion. This has been proven many times in a laboratory environment. Don't get me wrong if one is not maintaining a C-blade properly and it is got any (Rust) forming then remove as gently as possible. However. If one is to own C-Blades it would be who of them to learn the difference between (Rust) & (Patina) & how to tell them apart.
So even if the patina is really bad is there's no point to remove it
use cola?
You said not to get baking soda and sodium bicarbonate mixed up they r not the same. When in actuality it is exactly same
Sodium bicarbonate is baking soda.
Sodium carbonate is washing soda.
Sodium percarbonate is oxi-clean.
Thank you! Mustard was left on my Bob Kramer and gave it a goldish patina...I panicked and came here...the sodium bicarbonate saved me 👍
Oooh, mustard! I gotta try that out! Thx. Nice yellow mustard should leave an awesome golden patina?
@@dammitman1664 Right? Goldish patina? Sign me up, please. :)
Is baking soda ok to use? He’s using washing soda here. Im confused
@@BjarkiHugrakkr Baking soda is pure sodium bicarbonate. 👍
Don’t mistake the sodium bicarbonate with baking soda! Lol
Is baking soda ok to use or do I need washing soda? Im so lost
Sodium bicarbonate is baking soda. Sodium *carbonate* is washing soda. They are somewhat similar but washing soda is not edible and a much stronger caustic. Should probably be wearing gloves if you're working with washing soda.
I was so lost when he said that lol
Bar Keeper works for me
thanks for the input