On one hand you don't want to live in constant fear of rejection, being judged and feeling inadequate but on the other hand you also don't want to feel completely alone, depressed and living a life without purpose. So instead you do something kinda in between, avoiding most stuff, flying under the radar, doing the bare minimum to just get by and not feel completely overwhelmed. But deep inside you feel like you're wasting your life because you know you have so much more to give.. but the question is always how? This disorder really sucks. But I still try to love life as much as I can. Gotta work with what you got.. Keep on fighting the good fight.
I think that one of reasons why this disorder is a little dismissed could be because it only causes problems to the person who has it. The person is not violent, agressive, abusive towards others, and causes little to no damage, so a lot of people may think "why bother?"
Exactly Alessandra! But inside it's always huge. In my case, just like Dr Grande said, you can change your behavior, which helps slightly, but I am always vigilant to any sign that people think I'm just an idiot, or not impressive, or not good enough, in any situation. Anytime I dare think that I am "good enough" someone or something comes along to smash that belief. For me, that reinforces my initial thoughts and makes me feel like a fool for even thinking otherwise. It's debilitating, and despairing in all areas of life. It's then especially destructive to me, because to feel that way feels childish and ridiculous as an adult..
@@luvbearbut I feel you. My biggest fear is loneliness at an old age, to have absolutely nobody who cares for you. Just to live with your memmories. Life is so sad.
@@neinsager3236 "I used to think the worst thing in life was to end up all alone. It’s not. The worst thing in life is ending up with people who make you feel all alone." ~ Robin Williams
@@WillyEckaslike Absolutely truth. I have just discovered, at the age of 64, what the issues I’ve had in life were all about - Avoidance Personality Disorder. It actually hit me in the face earlier today as I watched another video by Dr. Grande about AvPD verses SPD. I was floored to find out this disorder actually exists - and that there are other people in this world who are the same as me. I have dealt with these issues all my life - through military service and then in Child Protective Services - and it was a very, very hard road to travel, but, I made it, and now in retirement, I don’t have to force myself into social situations that I don’t want to stress about. I’m growing old alone, and I’ve come to accept it and be perfectly content with myself and my 2 pugs.
I have AvPD among other things, and the best qualifier I ever heard was “ the inability to foresee positive outcomes”. I find it to be a life destroyer.
Sometimes the avoidance comes when we don't know how to set boundaries or express them, especially if we were punished or rejected when we expressed them in the past.
also having been criticized for every single thing you do that is different from the perception of your care takers, also never getting any pocket money, never taking you and buying you clothes, you cant have your own opinion as you are going to be ridiculed or told off that you are annoying.
@@linlinali I didn't notice that I I wasn't giving pocket money to my children and some people mentioned it on my life and your comment so I started with a little, the happiness on their faces and the independent feeling they got just with a few dollars was surprising. Thank you for the tip.
What you are talking about reminds me of a gardening observation. Say you have a patch of allysum, and it's blooming, and you mow it down. It will come back again, stronger than ever. Then you mow it down again, and it comes back, but doesn't bloom. The next time, it doesn't come back at all. A child's will is like that. Parents who want to break a child's will are destroying the thing that will sustain them in life.
No he is full of it they keep mixing schizoid and avoidant.. avoidant desire change, involvement but are subject to a control group that devalues them. It's to risky and their compartment or role becomes disposable.
i would like to think i have a good nose for bullshit, dr grande opens enough doors of thought for me to be convinced that grasping the science can give an insight into some scenarios
I have this. I suspect it was due to my Narcissist Mom an Covert Sister. I was constantly criticized and became afraid criticism. My hypervigilance makes me have constant anxiety when I am around my loved ones. I haven’t spoken to my friends since high school or my Cousins in 6 years. I pretty much live the life of a Loner.
You're not the only one , I have the same too , narcissistic mother and a covert younger sister . I feel much more peaceful when I'm alone then when I am with my family .
I can definitely see this in myself. I’ve always avoided social interaction because I felt inadequate...but I just chalked it up to being an “introvert”.
I spent over 10 years in psychotherapy and suffered through many false diagnoses until one competent clinician finally determined that I was a high functioning autistic. He said I have text book Aspbergers syndrome. I'm 70 years old and I feel free for the first time in my life
I have been struggling with avoidance for my whole life. I started therapy a year ago, had to stop a couple months ago because of a too busy schedule. This video really opened my eyes as to why I need to go back. I've been slacking off my studies, distracting myself with whatever I can find (movies, books, daydreaming), completely isolating myself for days in my room doing nothing. This video has been like a slap in the face. It's so painful to watch, because I simply do not want to have to face myself. But it has helped me see I need to go back to therapy, I really need it. We did so much progress, and while we obviously didn't fix everything I've just been reverting to those old behaviours over again. I'm constantly afraid and ashamed. I find it difficult to even reach out to my therapist, because I don't wnat to bother them / feel ashamed of how badly I've been doing since I left therapy / feel like I deserve to just waste my life, because I'm not worth it. It's so difficult to live with. But thank you for this video.Truly.
Wow! After almost 45 years, I think I finally realized I have APD and not all the others. Fits like a glove and bizarrely, I feel relief. Thank you, Dr. Grande!
OP : Bro, i feel like that. I just had my second session of therapy earlier this month at 41. Better late than never i guess. I wish you the best. I'm employed and quite appreciated (even if it was very hard for me), i used to have romantic relationships (i stopped because i was feeling inadequate). I wish you the best outcomes possible.
If I had any feelings other than “happy” growing up, my mom didn’t want to hear it. I spent a lot of time alone in my room trying to cope with stuck emotions. I’m 40 now and am still trying to be free. I do try new things but it’s a huge mental push to be social and have real relationships.
I feel you, I think I spent most of my childhood alone in my room. Even when I was happy, I was a ‘nuisance’ to my parents (they told me regularly). I think the isolation I felt at home is what led me to force myself to engage with other kids, but I never really had close friends until high school. Even then I couldn’t understand why people wanted to be friends with me. (Tbh it’s something I still struggle with. I’m the same age and it’s rough enough making new friends - but the added difficulty of this weird naïveté about how friendships work makes it exhausting.)
Very enlightening! I especially appreciate how you called out the misperception of AvPD being not so serious, while it is, in fact, the most debilitating. Fair to presume that this misperception is likely rooted in its relatively mild effects on others. Obviously, because others typically don't have much contact/exposure to those suffering from AvPD. Thus, the external view is warped. Not prominently on the radar screen. Glad you called attention to this matter, Doctor Grande. You always see things at a deeper level. You're Good! Grazi!
Honestly I think that goes back to people's inherent selfishness. I used to say "if you want a problem you can't solve to BE solved, make it someone else's problem. That's when they'll care, not before." That sounds cold asf.. but so are people, so it evens out.
Me too. A wasted life such a shame. On the plus side due to my avpd I have never had any children so at least I’m spared the torment of potentially introducing another human being into this hell. My bloodline ends with me and all I can say is good riddance to bad shit !!!!
I was officially diagnosed with avpd a few months ago, before that it was sad and cptsd. Started therapy years ago because I believed there was something fundamentally wrong with me that needed to be fixed, but turns out the thing that needs to be fixed is that I fundamentally believe there's something wrong with me. There was emotional abuse and neglect from an early age. The most used interchangeable criticism and insult was that I was too sensitive so it really makes me wonder how much genetics played a role or was it a self fulfilling prophecy.
Its not genetics or self fulfilling prophecy - you sound overly responsible. Others have to take resoonsibility for their actions - they are accountable. And being emotionally abused and neglected would have left you seeking control over getting your most basic emotional needs met - this explains why you take responsibility for others poor treatment of you and the only two options you give for why this has happened in your life is, according to you, because of you somehow. This is fundamentally untrue and I bet your abusers are very happy they have you in such a mental prison. Manipulators often call their victims 'sensitive' as it is a good way to abdicate personal responsibility for their poor trearment of you. They need you to believe that you feel the way you do because of you as this enables them to continue treating you like **** It is time to invest in yourself. It is time to back yourself. And most importantly - it is time for you to CREATE YOUR OWN NARRATIVE FOR YOU, YOUR LIFE AND THE PEOPLE IN IT. Be what they might consider 'sensitive' or 'selfish' You could benefit greatly from CBT therapy. All my opinion of course, hope something of it helps you.
How do you deal with the fear of criticism and rejection. Like what could a significant other do for you? And what should a person do if you feel like you want to avoid emotional discussions??? Especially if that other person is extremely upset???
Wow Ive gone through adhc, skizotypal, cptsd and have landed here. But only by own research because I cry profusely when I try to see a doctor and ask for help. I managed to do it for my back problems and am now diagnosed with bodily distress disorder. Meds helped that a lot, but now I have to wprk up the courage to ask for help again so I can get a real job. Im drowning in poverty, because I cant find a way to be succesfully self imployed and Im scared to death of having colleques... I have always felt something was really wrong with me, and was told all the time I was too sensitive and maybe crazy. I feel non deservant of help. Thanks for your comment, it feels good to see there is a possibility, that I only need to work on my beliefs, rather than change my whole personality to be accepted.
Pretty sure I have this, and it has only gotten worse with time. I'm 25 and I have no friends at this point. I have never been in a relationship or had sex before. I have almost no hope that either of these things will ever change. Life feels empty and meaningless. I often feel like cutting my life short to spare myself the needless suffering. Social anxiety and AVPD being on a continuum makes sense to me. My current state feels like an evolution of the social anxiety I had in middle / high school.
If you're alive can we talk like on reddit. I can 100% relate with your comment and I've been suffering too. I'm too 25 years old with both social anxiety and avpd with no friends. I need to question you sone questions and want to hear you more.
I know it's extremely hard but you have to force yourself to go out and meet people and try and find a girlfriend you will get turned down and some people will look down on you it's part of learning you will eventually meet friends and get a girlfriend do what you hate the most until you get good at it learn commutation skills that's the only way you will get better there is no other way you will be stuck forever if you don't force yourself to do these things try and seek help and find supportive people I hope the best for you I know how hard it is
I am 26 and I can relate too you very well. I also have schizoaffective disorder and PTSD :)))) so I am a bit negative towards the future... Anyways there is hope for you out there. There is treatment for avpd.
Oh. My. Goodness. This is 100% my husband. He was diagnosed with social anxiety in his early 30s but is definitely more APD. And it's no wonder therapy hasn't helped us a lot as a couple since the APD diagnosis was missing coupled with the fact he could be resistant to change due to APD. Thank you so much. My husband is pretty open so I'm going to talk to him and show him this video.
It's good that you are looking at other personality disorders besides just narcissistic and borderline. Almost all available content seems to be about these two.
Well, I guess you're certainly correct about that: Dr. Grande seems to have focused on those disorders for a large number of postings. But--wow!--what a focus that was! This channel is a serious treasure trove of information/learning of those disorders, particularly narcissism which is playing a rather big role in our modern world at present. But as you said, now that narcissism seems to have been deeply explored, perhaps Dr. Grande will also be tackling some other topics as well, such as this one? But hey: whatever topic he decides to focus upon with his expertise, his videos are all highly fascinating and informative!
@@synapticimpulse7585 I didn't mean Dr Grande specifically. In fact he generally discusses quite a large variety of subjects. I meant that in general, wherever you look, including scientific publications, there is a lot more information about NPD and BPD than other personality disorders. This is striking, especially considering what Dr Grande says in this video, that AvPD is more common than these and associated with highest level of impairment (around 5:00).
Honestly, classifying disorders is pointless in my opinion. They're all so broad based that the criteria can apply to most anybody. It's why the big 5 factors of personality test is on a better footing and track to helping people than Myers Briggs testing or trying to classify disorders. Simply know your personality traits, and then you'll see what you need to work on. It's much easier than applying "disorders" to yourself. By knowing yourself more deeply, you'll avoid the need to label yourself as "disordered."
Because they're the most "inconvenient" for those looking in on those w mental illnesses, and so it matters more for society that they change. We can suffer, we can rot, they'll honestly fuel the necrosis
I believe I have AVDP and the more I learn about it the more I feel like my whole personality is in fact a list of problems and flaws. Even the things I thought were positive, and a part of the "real" me. For example, I used to think I'm a really friendly person (despite the incapasitating fear of people) - but is it because of my fear of rejection? How do people cope when they realise that most of their personality is in fact a disorder and how do they bild a self image after that?
Jacob Mitford well I know a young man who is BPD and he is very sociable but he struggles with identity a lot. He has taken to admiring super heroes and assigns their perceived strengths to himself. I don’t know if that’s healthy but he knows these ‘super heroes’ are actually fiction. He has days where he says, I’m having a day where I don’t know who I am.’ I and others remind him he a warm, friendly, intelligent, curious person who is wonderful to be around. However, we never know if it is the right thing to do. He sees a psychiatrist, a psychologist and attends many self help groups. So he is better off than most. We cannot assign a personality type to him but we see him as a good person.
I think that's the troubling thing about terminology such as "personality disorder" or the more old fashioned sounding "character disorder" It sounds judgmental and hyper-pathological. As opposed to something more neutral like "interpersonal coping disorder" or "coping maladaption syndrome" or something like that. Something would not make it sound like someone's whole self is a disorder.
Same, it’s been staring me in the face for a while. While knowing is a major step to wellness, this has basically come to my attention during COVID which I think feeds into AVPD like crazy.. If I weren’t partnered with someone that is hella understanding and who I can help as well, I really don’t know if I’d be as ok as I am. I’ve been feeling super withdrawn from so many in my life, namely family, and everyone lives on the other end of the country, so already I’d been less in the loop. I worry about reengaging when it’s just normal to do so again. I’m far too comfortable in this small bubble despite previously having my social life as a source of so many wonderful things. I’m hoping you have support from SOMEBODY that has your back for real and also have been helping others heal when life brings ppl your way. Much love, we got this!
Same. I feel judged, but then I have to remind myself that that is likely a distorted thought/feeling, and that mental health problems are not our fault. Nobody would blame a person for being born somewhat physically impaired, for example. But we do need to work on our issues, however. We just need to figure out how to not feel shame while doing so. It's not our fault that we have a problem, and it doesn't make us bad people.
I'm 99 percent sure this is the thing I've been struggling with my whole life and has caused me so much emotional pain that I can't talk about with anyone. Reading this comments section, It's nice to see that I'm not alone, although I'd never wish this on anyone. BTW, I've never seen so many helpful, intelligent comments on a UA-cam video before!
I think I had this disorder. The symptoms sound very much like me at a young age. For 18 years now I fight it, and it gets a lot easier. Even though sometimes I still get triggered in some rare occasions, but my self image is quite healthy now. What started the healing was my now husband, then boyfriend. He "saw" me. not the space I occupied, just my flaws, or just my outer shell. He saw me as a person, someone worthy of being listened to. We spent hours bouncing ideas and philosophies back on each other in those early days, and sometimes still do, if we manage to find a new interesting idea. Later on in life, I had an psychotherapy. More for burn out and depression, but the dealing with the buried childhood traumas really helped ease me more with my avoidant behaviour.
I have this disorder. Been diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety and Depression as well. I find it very difficult to trust others and mostly stay away from people when I can. Life is very lonely sometimes.
As an introvert with SAD and AvPD, the best and the worst part is nobody can really tell that I'm sick. I live a normal life, did well at school, and now have a well-paid job. The very few friends I have see me as naturally aloof, but inside I'm screaming, and a cloud seems to hang over me wherever I go. I crave for meaningful relationship but I can't trust and love anybody, not even myself. It's funny how I used to be a super emotional child, but was always punished whenever I threw a tantrum. Gradually I learned to not show my emotions anymore. I don't blame my parents though, knowing that it's hard to handle a child like me, but I can't help feeling doomed for life and envy those that are 'normal'. If amnesia were a treatment option I would gladly try it lol
I have similar experience as yours. I often look back at old family photos and see how expressive I used to be. I'd always try to be the center of attention in those pictures. Things took a complete turn after third grade of elementary school, however. My personality turned 180°. The cheerful expressions disappeared. I remember feeling ashamed of myself back then, so I'd always dodge the camera. If I did end up in a photo (in most cases because someone made me), I'd have no expression at all. I'd always try to hide behind something or someone, trying to not to be in the spotlight. I've got an older sister who's incredibly self-centered and really abusive. I've always felt like she despised me from the day I was born. She'd shame me for everything I did, and she'd call me all sorts of terrible names like "loser," "loner," "failure," etc. School wasn't much better cause I was bullied from kindergarten all the way to high school. My parents weren't much help either (maybe because I'm the second child, and there's some stigma around that). Especially during puberty, when I needed their guidance the most, they'd just tell me to "man up" or "stop being a baby" whenever I tried talking to them about my internal struggles. Right now, I feel so lost. There were times when I'd cry almost every night, realizing that so many people close to me in the past seemed to be against me. It feels like I couldn't have avoided ending up with this messed up personality. I stopped crying when I turned 21 (I'm 23 now). I've come to terms with the idea that maybe this is just my fate, and yeah, life isn't fair. So what if I'm stuck with a crappy destiny? In the grand scheme of this vast universe we live in, I'm just a speck of dust anyway. Life will always go on.
Shoot I wish it was less obvious to others for me 😅 for me, it manifests as “oops I made a mistake at my new job, guess I can never go back,” or “oops said the wrong thing to that person, guess I'll have to avoid them forever” so yah its really obvious when you constantly come up with reasons to no show no call at your promising new dream job or suddenly ghost that close friend and literally never speak to them again for in everyone else’s mind no reason. I've never been able to maintain friendships or jobs and it SUCKS! 🫠
An excellent video. This is the last piece in the Venn Diagram of disorders that is me. It’s a truly crippling condition. So subtle in appearance but ultimately deadly. The difference between living a life, and simply existing. Not loved, not hated; invisible. Normal to the eye but so far behind normal trajectory, the intangible anomaly, I should just free up resources. I’m ADD, autistic, epileptic, schizencephaly and AvPD. I look completely fine, but I’m a malfunctioning reject with nothing to offer the world. My life was over the day I was born.
Brother, it sounds like there is much to deal with. I suppose turning up here means looking for answers. Just trying to understand and improve surely deserves points. Even if there are lots of dead ends. I think these theories make a lot of sense, and by knowing ourselves better, that overwhelming decent into madness becomes an option rather than an inevitability. Best of luck.
I have avpd myself and I know that what I'm about to say will probably be brushed away, but I thought you should know that your comment made a difference to me. You have a very insightful way of describing a diagnosis that I've been struggling to define for years, and it feels good knowing that there are people out there who know what it's like to live with. You made a difference in my life.
Dapps, you don't need to offer anything to the world. You don't owe it anything. I also struggle with brain malfunction and dishonour. In my case I'm hated by some, and have failed often. I've lost most of the things I had achieved or acquired. Freeing up resources for others sounds noble, but it also transfers my pain onto others. This is selfish on my part. Things have changed a lot in 4 months, with millions of people unable to offer to the world. They have no choice but to take. By just being around, spending money, moving the economy along, you are offering to be a necessary cog in a big machine, that feeds and supports society. By 'taking the pain', you are doing a doing a job that makes the lives of police and medical staff easier. For the government to dispose of the deceased is expensive, and traumatic for the emergency service providers. Besides just living with pain, there are methods that can sometimes reduce it, without narcotics. Being kind to yourself is also important, even though its not something people with mental disorders enjoy doing.
:-D Avoiding to become diagnosed with Avoidant PErsonality Disorder while working hard at being an unpaid student. I like that idea if I could get away with it while being a student for as short of a period possible while being only a 'Midwit' too.
I have memories of being in high school, and having so much anxiety during presentations that I could not think. It was like an out of body experience, where I was hyper aware of myself. I hate that feeling of not being able to think or express myself, but it is a running theme in social situations for me. When it’s my turn to contribute conversation, my mind similarly goes blank. The way I’ve learned to describe it to people is, I struggle to verbally express my stream of consciousness. The moment it happens, the words do not come. I remember being in senior year, and I realized how much easier it was to just skip class days that had presentations. It was… incredibly damaging to my high school grade at the time. In university, I didn’t skip class days to avoid things like this anymore, but I still failed public speaking because of this physiological response. I couldn’t finish speeches. I still remember the despair I felt when the teacher said that speeches are basically a conversation with an audience, that it should be fluid and that recitation word for word was bad. She described a skill completely foreign to me, the most averse thing in my life, and told me that it was what I needed. Due to that, I failed public speaking, and similarly scored a low grade in my foreign language class. Both were necessary courses to graduate, so this knowledge that I had to repeat public speaking was… I don’t have words for it. It induced terror in me like nothing else. This, paired with a mediocre grade across other subjects put me on academic probation, and completely killed any motivation I had to continue. It loomed over me and affected my self esteem with so much intensity, until I quit university, and my heart finally felt normal again. Logically I understand this isn’t most people’s experience with university, but my emotion/raw intuition tells me things like, “I don’t understand how people can get through this.” I also really struggle to talk about things that I like, or what I am feeling/going through. I am better at asking questions/being emotive in conversations because I am fortunate to know many kind, unjudgmental friends online who helped me practice a lot in VC. But I still see these behaviors and responses even today. I never recite stories of my childhood, and never talk about what’s going on in my life or how I’m feeling beyond anything superficial. I have just learned at this point in my life that there are things that stop my brain, and I avoid them. I accept myself now, and don’t hate myself anymore. I tell myself I would rather live by my strengths than resent myself for my weaknesses. I am 28 years old now. It's been 11 years since I spent entire class periods of 90 minutes in a bathroom stall just to avoid standing up in front of a class for 3 minutes. It is interesting to me how, no matter how long it’s been, these feelings or body responses never completely go away.
I’m like, 95% sure I have this. I’ve been with my now wife for nearly 5 years and anytime we have gone to her family’s house, (she has 11 siblings) I never have felt like I connected and I’m constantly feeling intense discomfort when I’m in the same room with others or someone tries conversing with me. I try to avoid everyone if I can and end up “resting” in the room we’re staying in. I’ve avoided most jobs where I have to interact with other people and I go blank during conversations and that’s kept me from forming friendships and relationships which I would love to have but I’m too scared. I do have a past that I’m relatively ashamed of so I don’t know if that has to do with it. I just know that when I’m drinking or drunk, I don’t feel it at all. I feel so much better. I need help.
Well at least you have your wife.Though, I'm curious to know how you found her if you say you have trouble conversing and forming relationships with others in the first place, especially in person. Was it instead online? Or do you think this disorder maybe all perhaps developed more recently for you? Regardless, I feel you dude-like unequivocally. Besides the drinking and wife part. Hope you're not struggling with alcoholism there on top of it. Nothing wrong with drinking I suppose, but indulging in that too much will only make it worse. God be with you to get whatever help that you need. I'm sorry.
Overdifferentiation causes too much overlap between what should be categorically more distinct. In some way I don't envy young clinicians of our days. They must be horribly confused all the time! Thank you for your efforts bringing sense into it, doctor. In no way can this be fun all the time...! yours, 🐰
For me, I don't necessarily avoid relationships/interactions because someone might not like me, it's more that the first time I say or do something wrong, my brain goes straight to, “well they’ll never want anything to do with me again”.
I fulfill all 7 criteria for Avpd. However, I was never neglected as a child. My disorder came out of having a traumatic time at school and obviously not being able to handle it mentally. If anybody can relate here I'd love to hear it.
There was some unintentional neglect at home as parents were pre occupied with other things. But it wasn't so severe as my bullying in school which basically revolved around calling me worthless and isolating me. I think that aggravated already there feeling of inadequacy and being unlovable. It has destroyed my life, quietly.
The best use of therapy for people with AvPD is to find more adaptive coping techniques for existing with the disorder. The biggest problem for therapists is accepting the frustration of slow progress.
@Anarcho Frills Wow. Rethink your plans. You are cracked and will be an abusive therapist. You think they will be willing victims, but eventually you will be sued and your house of cards will come tumbling down.
@Anarcho Frills Where can I find the source that all PDs have been found to have deficits in mentalization and thus, according to you, lack of empathy?
@Quack Quark I think all the main personality disorders apply to me, some slightly more than others. So ultimately, I think they're useless for myself and for most. The fact is I have a propensity for depression and anxiety. The other labels tend to pathologize the mere existence of being a biological life form trying to navigate life. The questions you're supposed to ask yourself to qualify for these disorders are far too easy imo. I'm not expressing this as well as I did for another post on here. Seek out my lengthy answers there if you're still curious. I break down why I think the big 5 personality trait test is substantially more usefull and helpful, as opposed to individuals and even psychiatrists trying to apply personality disorders from the DSM. I think only a very small percentage of people deserve such labels, and that most people are needlessly berating themselves for having a disordered personality.
“When a toxic person can no longer control you, they will try to control how others see you. The misinformation will feel unfair, but you stay above it, trusting that other people will eventually see the truth just like you did.” - Jill Blakeway
I disagree that APD is associated with low self-esteem, feeling defective, or no self worth, at least in my case. I actually think very highly of myself, but I anticipate that most people - for whatever reason - aren't going to understand or appreciate me... Maybe that's APD with a helping of NPD on the side... And can I just say that the new workplace "culture" in which we're all supposed to be one big happy family and hang out together and eat meals together and brainstorm together and socialize together and make presentations all the time is a nightmare for people like us? So glad I'm able to retire soon!
I feel the same. When im alone i sometimes think of myself as quite talented in my hobbies, but when i actually show my work on front of other people, i assume they dont like it and i feel like an untalented loser
@@Mo-mc3mw I think that is more like social anxiety. Where you believe in your worth but are worried about what others think. With avoidant personality you believe you are inferior and are worried about other people finding that out if you interact with them.
whenever i read up on AVPD, i dont quite identify with the characteristic of being avoidant of general social interactions in school/work. i think i maintain a rather high level of social functioning (i do think people generally think im pretty “normal” and decent at socialising as well) but especially if i get closer to people, i start to get more and more fearful and anxious of interacting with them and have a tendency to avoid interacting with them especially one on one although i actually do want to talk to them (i mean.. of course since theyre my good friends). im not sure why i act like that but i guess its because since my friends and i are in a good place in our relationship, i so desperately want to avoid the risk of the interaction taking a bad turn (eg awkward) which would end up making me feel ashamed and feeling like im inherently socially inept. im tired of feeling this way about myself so i just want to avoid it completely in the midst of uncertainty. and also i feel like every social interaction i have is somewhat like a ‘test’ i have to make it through rather than something that im actually enjoying. all i feel after having a social interaction that isnt awkward or anything is that its a ‘success’ and a sense relief. in my mind, a failed interaction is something i have to work hard to avoid and i feel like im always on the verge of ruining a relationship as social interactions increase. ive never seen someone talked about this before and wondered if i actually have avpd. im still learning more about it because i just heard about this disorder just yesterday (this disorder is really not well known!!!!) and have been identifying with it quite alot, i suspect that i do have avpd (although i dont want to self diagnose).
any more info?? (did u get diagnosed). Cause damn resonating w this especailly about interactions becoming "tests" that u can succeed or fail in...I suppose most people dont feel like that lmfao
I’ am fighting off 💪🏽a Dependent Personality in myself(also empathic) so I can see vary clearly how this person could be suffering inside of themselves.(from my perspective), thanks for a very good video.
I've been trying to figure out what's wrong with me for years and just haven't been found why I constantly feel this way. Thank you for your detailed explanation!
I like being isolated. I like being alone. I have been treated for depression. My behaviour doesn’t affect anyone else. I’m highly vigilant and have chronic anxiety. I’m a poor judge of character and keep making friends with people who are compulsive liars. My solution is to avoid everyone. I’m 80 years old. Covid has given me the excuse needed to isolate at home. It’s hard to believe any differently when you are constantly told you are inferior and stupid by your parents as a child. I wonder if childhood abuse causes permanent brain damage. I also had a traumatic brain injury aged ten and think I got stuck with the emotional immaturity of a ten year old. I’m learning to accept myself as I am and think this is as good as it gets. Thank you Dr Grande for your compassion.
I end up revisiting these Comprehensive Reviews every few months. They're just so wonderfully well-organized and the little "clinical pearls" throughout are interesting enough to warrant a relisten. So good!
I think I have this disorder but I have no insurance and I feel like I can’t get help. It makes me so sad that I have no friends and I feel so uncomfortable when I go to social outings because I feel like everyone thinks I’m weird I feel younger than everyone even when I’m older. I’ve lost jobs and I have just left without even getting paid. The only people I can be around without feeling this way are my boyfriend and daughter I even feel this way around my family. I want to have friends and have fun but I just can’t.
The last bit of the video really spoke to me. I went to a psychologist for 2 years or so, i was never diagnosed with AVPD, i was never diagnosed with anything. We just talked and figured out ways together for me to make more positive actions and to find my self worth. I relate to five symptoms or so mentioned in this video, but i notice that i overcame the behavioral impairments because of the therapy. Yet i still do feel so unworthy and inferior in almost all social situations. I don’t feel at home almost anywhere and don’t feel comfortable with almost anyone, even though i go to the same social gatherings for like 4 years now. On the other hand i do feel comfortable with my family and boyfriend. I also have to say that there’s been a lot of progress in feeling that way and it’s a lot better now, but i don’t think i’ll ever get rid of the feeling. I feel so uptight around others, even though i’m actually not. I want to show others who i am and what i do and what i love, but i just can’t.
Thankyou for this post. It is so accurate !! I easily and totally meet all of the criteria for AvPD., and remain undiagnosed. This condition is debilitating, at times exhausting, and affects thoughts continually. I am amazed that there appears to be minimal awareness of this personality disorder still. Doing my own research, and discovering that my issues are real, and not unique has been some comfort in some way. I fully realise that I am not qualified to diagnose myself, but as I so definately meet all of the criteria and behaviours, I find AvPD. difficult to discount. Again, an awareness has been helpful, and I sincerely thank you for your post.
I love it when Dr. Grande goes into professor mode and really offers a thorough summary of textbook information referencing the DSM 5 and all of its predecessors. These videos always make me think of a college course in a formal educational setting. Bravo Dr. Grande, I hope you continue to make more of these videos in the present/future.
Love your transparency around your professions shortcomings. Really helps to form trust in getting therapy. Also helps in understanding that even diagnosed disorders are evolving and a moving target. Thanks!
i was diagnosed with this a few months ago along with mdd and gad after living with it for around 10 years. been on medication since the diagnosis and feeling way better, which i never thought i’d say. it can get better, just keep pushing
I’ve been to many therapists. My diagnosis has always been anxiety and depression. After watching this video I was shocked, because I know for certain I have this avoidant personality disorder combined with depression and anxiety. What really caught my attention was I crave connection with people, especially my family. I have no friends. As for therapists I end therapy when I feel the therapist sees me as a failure to get well.
I don't see my avoidance as a disorder, more a defence mechanism! The amount of cluster b' women that are around as standard in Britain is disturbing. I will watch this a couple more times, and digest it thoroughly. Thanks again, Grande. 😎✔
@Anarcho Frills Narcissist behaviour is purposely destructive towards others. My behaviour harms nobody, and if anything, protects everyone. I own my property, and see my grandchildren and daughter nearly every day. After what I've been through, only a sadist would risk a repeat. I'm actually not interested in intimate relationships with anyone except my chosen immediately family, so I'm not keen on your undertone to be honest. Maybe it's a misperception, but the feeling I'm getting right now is one that you're trying to devalue decades of my experiences which I've overcome, and insert your own assumption, 'defending' Narcs/borderlines/psychopaths. If it's supply you're after, I suggest going elsewhere, because your comment really doesn't sit well with me right now. It's feels 'off' - that's a red flag. I don't do 'red flags'.
That is an excellent rview, Dr. Grande. Very clear, dispels some common confusions, and also honest about the points that are still not well understood. Informative, precise and non-dogmatic. Well done, indeed!
It’s weird how my avoidance has developed over my life. As a child, I was always out there in an extrinsic way and always had the energy and joy of being myself. It was almost always encouraged from my parents of being this way and led me being like this for most of my childhood. I then had a traumatic experience with someone and it had led to my parents viewing me in a negative way and this situation had led me to crawl into a shell and not express how I truly felt because of the way my parents had reacted. This whole situation was almost like a stain on the floor that has been covered with a carpet and both me and my parents had forgotten it, but was never truly resolved in a way where both sides look at each other the same in a truly loving way. I now live in this avoidance type of way where I isolate myself because that’s the only way I’m truly happy because I know I have myself and only I can truly love myself without being judged. It’s to the point where I’m more happy by myself rather than with my family. And when I’m pushed into social circumstances where I’m almost expected to be interactive and social with other people, I have the mental and physical fatigue of not wanting to, but deep down spiritually, I want to express myself and just be me and have fun and socialize, but the other half holds back and creates this inner conflict of built in emotions that causes almost a nervous breakdown that I have to hold in with all my might until I can isolate myself from the environment/situation where I can then vent it all out. I am totally self aware of all this and know what is “wrong” with me but I just don’t know what’s the proper first step to take.
They ideally want relationships, but because of past experiences learned to expect it to not work. So they adopted the goal of avoiding contact, possibly even leading to developing psychosomatic symptoms, to safeguard. Expect better outcomes, don't make your self-worth depend on other people's judgment, learn to separate tasks. I recently read "The Courage to be disliked" and Adlerian philosophy and it just makes sense tbh. Too early to know for sure if it will work, but for now I feel much better already.
Thank you for understanding and expressing the seriousness of this disorder. It is really debilitating and painfully distressing. Worst it really affects one's quality of life, it impedes meaningful connection with others and they miss out on so much of life.
Thanks once again, Dr. Grande. Childhood neglect by parents and early bullying/rejection by peers play a major role in the development of AvPD. How much do you believe comes in the form Cluster B abuse? In particular, BPD and NPD? Would you consider doing a video on common adult outcomes of Cluster B abuse (parental and otherwise) on children?
My parents are cluster B’s. My dad is a somatic narcissist and my mother was a covert one around him and other adults but not around my brother and I. Her narcissism was right in our faces disguised as “good parenting” and “loving my children more than other parents.” That propaganda was a load of gaslighting hooey.
I managed to deal with this disorder for years by doing drugs and drinking and this was the only way I could socialize at all. Now I'm 2 years clean and I have my boyfriend and nobody else. 1 friend that I've had since high school. I even feel nervous around my dad sometimes. It's hard
The depth of your analysis is incredible. I've never experienced anything in a classroom or read anything in a book that examines human psychology with such imagination and attention to detail. I almost wish I had just given you all the tuition I paid and just skipped college all together.
That was so profound how you described that Cognitive Behavior Therapy "artificially" changes behavior with limited results instead of tackling the internal problem and the change in behaviour resulting.
I am suspected of having AvPD, I see/saw myself as unappealing (which was also true on account of obesity and skin conditions) as well as socially inept/inferior (which is also true on account of lifelong self-isolation/exclusion so I just didnt get as much opportunity to develop social skills). The tricky bit is that those feelings of being unappealing, socially inept and inferior may be largely realistic self-evaluations. On a related note, AvPD and NPD (vulnerable) are really similar, but differentiate on an axis of ethics/morality.
Part of the disorder is lack of insight which is probably why you think your feelings of being unappealing and socially inept might on some level be realistic self evaluations. You have kind eyes. Please try to look at yourself kindly with those eyes. You are very, very, very probably wrong about being unappealing. Social skills can be learned.
E WILLIAMS The unappealing bit was realistic. Perhaps not always, and not recently that I got around to doing something about it. Altough post weight loss body dysmorphia still has the feeling linger. From the comments I received from friends and family after transformation, it is pretty clear that the unappealing feeling was realistic. Yes social skills can be learned, but the feeling of social ineptness/inferiority is perfectly describing the present. It isnt logically consistent to ascribe the feelings to an irrational self-evaluation and simultaneously acknowledge that individuals with a disorder related lack of social skill are socially inept and as a consequence their position on the dominance hierarchy is very low (inferiority). Compassion for others with the disorder is kind, but it must not invalidate the concerns, which are real (rational or not) for those with the disorder. Those with the disorder have to acknowledge their beliefs (maladaptive or otherwise), accept them and find ways to deal with them productively.
Watcher WLC both AvPD and NPDv (vulnerable) underlie low self esteem, guilt, an unstable sense of self, low empathy and insight, a drive for external validation and receiving narcissistic injury. The way a AvPD copes is to withdraw, isolate and assume something is wrong with them. The way an NPDv copes is to confront, control, manipulate, demean and assume something is wrong with everybody else. A plausible way to explain how this comes to be is that an AvPD rejects methods of coping that are disrespectful of others. To be aware what is and isnt respectful, there needs to be some moral and ethical sensitivity. NPDv dont perceive their disrespectful behavior as wrong, so they lack that sensitivity.
Anarcho Frills AvPD can manifest in narcissistic behavior, for instance wasting everybodies time with a meeting that had a scheduling conflict and got avoided to be canceled.
Dr Grande, You have been the most helpful, logical, scientific, level headed educational clinician I have ever heard. I have benefitted from watching so many of your you tubes and sharing them. You are making a huge impact on helping increase awareness of mental health topics. Thank you so much
Thanks for this video! I was diagnosed with AvP a few days ago (comorbid with depression, for which I received treatment before) so I am trying to understand myself better as I go into treatment soon. Feeling the desire for intimate relationships but being unable to form one is really the hardest part for me. I guess that I am a rare case that I don't have a high sensitivity for negative feedback, I actually love having discussions with people that challenge my way of thinking and view of things, including my personality. Also I actually want a job (and also currently have) where I am around people a lot, but I don't have deep conversations at all during those interactions so my anxiety is pretty low and easy to manage. For me the real difficulty lies in my inferiority complex, social issolation (I avoid meeting with friends when I am not well mentally) and not seeing the good side of my personality.
Very insightful. Since you can’t change how your feelings are formed, the only thing to do would be to brave yourself into the situations that are frightening and uncomfortable (but important for progress in life, however one defines it), knowing there will be pain along the way. At least that’s my takeaway.
Thanks for the video on AVPD! I have someone in my life who struggles with it so this gives me peace of mind in the sense that I understand the disorder better and why he has acted as he does, all these several years that I’ve known him.
This man has given me incredible insight into my behaviors and those of my relationships. Thank you and may you continue to use this platform for education, treatment, and enhancement of mental health awareness.
Dr. Grande, your videos are excellent in the ability to present the material in a manner accessible to an intelligent layperson without oversimplification of the complex issues being discussed.
My therapist years ago told me I have this. If I am humiliated I have a very severe emotional reaction. I know that people will eventually dislike me so I push them away usually. I am married because it was basically “arranged” between his mom and mine because whenever anyone had any interest in me for a relationship I ran away, sometimes literally. We have been married almost 25 years and I have been dealing with his ADHD the whole time but I couldn’t imagine ever having another relationship. I do so wish that I could just feel free with people and interact with them but I always feel like I am watching from outside through a window to the happy laughing people and I am out in the cold. I guess it was from having a psycho for a dad and a mom who was a bit of a cold fish and rather dealt with my younger brother who had adhd himself. I grew up rarely speaking and I knew people thought I was a weirdo. I would just rather be alone. The bullies had a field day with me.
I wish there was a website/organization that would help employ those that are plagued with this disorder. We don't want to go sit through a dreadful interview where we basically are tormented with how disfunctional we appear and how bad we look on paper from ducking and dogding our whole life. Look, we've just been trying to manuever through the world the best way we know how with a mind that fights against us. We just want to clock in and work somewhere without the shaming process of interviews and answering for our disfunction.
I am diagnosed with AvPD and a psychology student so it is kind of confusing on what is going on around me and myself, Thank you for this video it helps me understand myself better
Dude you are the counselor's educator educator! Love how you really dig into this to uncover a crippling disorder that has been overlooked and you back up your statement using sensible why's and how's. Did that make sense? And your further breakdown on "perceived as positive " external behavior change via CBT treatment versus the actual internal apparatus still directing the negative feelings/thoughts of the sufferer is and reaching even further into the why of treatment failure is spot on.
As someone that has gone through lots of CBT and has AvPD, I can completely validate him saying that you can change behavior but it’s not meaningful to the person. Avoidant personality disorder is such a perception based disorder. You have to be able to see the whole picture different not just move items in the picture. It so tough to keep any hope when you can change behavior and see not much payoff for it. Personally looking in psilocybin as a treatment method,
Thank you for making videos about AvPD. Counselors know so little bit about it and there’s not a lot of research on it. The mental health world needs to have more knowledge and awareness about AvPD.
Wow, thank you Dr. Grande! This really resonated with me. I've heard so little about AVPD, as opposed to other disorders. I recognize myself (my younger self) in this; I had 4 of the 7 traits. I say "had", because I believe I am an example of someone who managed to overcome (outgrow) it gradually. With me, it began when I entered 7th grade at a new school. That coinciding with puberty seemed to be part of it. I became horribly self- conscious, insecure, low self esteem. But I desperately wanted to be different. I refer to myself as having been "pathologically shy". There likely was both a genetic and environmental etiology. In my case it led me into a tendency to self-medi cate with alcohol and drugs to "relieve" my discomfort. Which didn't work out too well in the long run (or even short term at the time.) I'm sure I had other co-morid tendencies as well. But I do know from my own experience that it IS possible to break out of this debilitating condition. In my 20's, after having been through a short abusive traumatic marriage I was widowed, and had a 2 year old daughter. I at least felt I had earned some real self respect, as well as respect and affection from my inlaws, as I had lovingly cared for my husband during his last 6 months, despite his former treatment of me. They were kind of a toxic family anyway, but I felt I'd finally done something tangible to prove my self worth. I then managed to get technical training for a job position in the ICU of a hospital. That was a big victory for me, because I HAD to "get over myself" and learn to become assertive. My tendency had previously always been to give up and quit. So the more tangible gains I made in the world, the more confidence I gained, and I stopped perceiving myself as unworthy, or as the center of the universe or the butt of every joke. I gradually began to have a more realistic image of myself, not of being awful, or being perfect (or needing to be) but just of being OK as a human being. I've still struggled with other demons since then, but I hope that sharing this can bring someone else hope.
i very much can relate to these symptoms. the only one i don't relate to as much is avoiding people in my line of work or in school. despite everything, i learn best through conversation, so i don't always present as avoidant as i might otherwise... but if i deal with mostly strangers during the day at work, that's ideal for me. i love people, and i love helping people. but the more i know or see someone, the more afraid and upset i become at the prospect of seeing them again. i've also become overly agreeable [acting as therapist as a child for my parents and friends, obsessive work habits, not complaining, not expressing emotion, etc] simply so that i am viewed as being helpful or a productive asset, and not seen "the way i am". if i allow myself to act in a way that seems to show "who i am" (in sarcastic quotes, really means "who i think i am" but whatever), i panic and oftentimes will leave the situation as entirely and abruptly as possible, and never return. tutors, outings....... in attempting to exist semicomfortably in places outside of my bedroom, i have developed a need to get high or drunk before work, sometimes at work, when i get home, before and during socializing, to sleep.... still maintaining a relatively high level of functioning. it's hard. i can't get help for avpd without addressing the substance issues, but if i hadn't developed those substance issues, i wouldn't be able to leave the house for a psych appointment without becoming suicidal at the prospect of even being perceived by another person. i'll have to revisit this video later on... it's a bit close to home at the moment, i keep shutting down mentally at it. that's nothing to do with the video itself, or your (as usual) wonderful presentation of facts and multiple perspectives, obviously.... have a good night, dr grande. thanks again
the third paragraph hits SO close to home. whenever i read up on AVPD, i dont quite identify with the characteristic of being avoidant of general social interactions in school/work. i think i also maintain a rather high level of social functioning (i do think people generally think im pretty “normal” and decent at socialising as well) but especially if i get closer to people, i start to get more and more fearful and anxious of interacting with them and have a tendency to avoid interacting with them especially one on one although i actually do want to talk to them (i mean.. of course since theyre my good friends). im not sure why i act like that but i guess its because since my friends and i are in a good place in our relationship, i so desperately want to avoid the risk of the interaction taking a bad turn (eg awkward) which would end up making me feel ashamed and feeling like im inherently socially inept. i dont like to feel this way about myself and be reminded of ug so i just want to avoid it completely in the midst of uncertainty. and also i feel like every social interaction i have is somewhat like a ‘test’ i have to make it through rather than something that im actually enjoying. all i feel after having a social interaction that isnt awkward or anything is that its a ‘success’ and a sense relief. in my mind, a failed interaction is something i have to work hard to avoid and i feel like im always on the verge of ruining a relationship as social interactions increase. ive never seen someone talked about this before and wondered if i actually have avpd. im still learning more about it because i just heard about this disorder just yesterday (this disorder is really not well known!!!!) and have been identifying with it quite alot, i suspect that i do have avpd (although i dont want to self diagnose).
@marqy Jr i'm actually doing alright at the moment, all things considered... how are you? i'd be more than happy to exchange contact info with you, it's good to know other people are in the same boat. life is hard enough without this extra weight
At 51 years of age I have to admit I have never even heard of this, but the description fits me to a T. I never take my vacation even though I am salaried and can’t sell my vacation time. I just feel like my hard work is the only thing that keeps me from getting fired. The impact of this disorder is great and my fear of failure is all consuming.
I just came upon this video and the symptoms fit me like a glove. For years I've had this job requiring minimal social interaction but also low income.
Hey Dr. Grande, thank you for this video. I'm 99 percent sure I have this personality disorder. It has been very limiting to say the least and it's hard to find anyone who would understand. Diagnosis & treatment seems like a toss up, but I'm pretty tired of feeling this way all the time. I wish I could just be normal and not stuck in this self prison. Sorry for being so grim but these aren't easy topics to discuss. I won't stop trying to make an impact on this world even if this disorder limits me.
I don't know what the heck I am, all I know is I'm 23 still a virgin and it's so hard for me to make any type of relationship. It's like I can't relate to anyone, feel like a freaking alien. I also think about deep shit always.
Take the big 5 personality trait test. That will give you insight into your personality and where you need work. Using this test it's then easier to speculate how your upbringing and experiences shaped you. Applying these broad based personality disorders to yourself is quite pointless imho. It's pretty simple to see what your pitfalls might be and then work on baby steps to improve yourself. For instance, people low in openness don't need to do drastic things at first. Literally forcing themselves to try new foods and wear a different piece of clothing gets everything rolling.
@@Dev-vm9gi Frankly, too many people are being asigned and diagnosed with personality disorders. These disorder classifications are only useful to define clusters of similar traits possessed by people who are experiencing severe dysfunction. 1 to 2% probably deserve such labels, not 10 to 30 percent of the population like many would like you to believe or tend to imply. Being a virgin at 23 doesn't mean you're sick or alien, lol. You probably experience a greater propensity for depression and anxiety than most people do. It could be upbringing or biological factors. But I suspect you're most likely 100% normal! Only Hitler types, sociopaths, and people so crazy they think they're King Louis the 14th of France need the exotic labels found within the DSM. Struggles with anxiety and/or depression is a sufficient label for most. Boring but true. Honestly, just about every main personality disorder applies to me when I ask myself the questions listed in the DSM, and I suspect just about everyone else who struggles with depression and/or anxiety does so as well. Sometimes I avoid, sometimes I'm a narcissist, sometimes I'm a covert narcissist, sometimes I'm borderline, and sometimes I feel absolutely inferior. These disorders tend to pathologize the mere existence of being a biological lifeform, where we're all trying our best to navigate life and cope. The 5 factor model really only has one negative trait: neuroticism. It lumps all the dysfunction mainly into this term. Isn't that nice? It is. Depression, anxiety, and the DSM personality disorders can all be thought of as "neurotic." But openness, conscientiousness, extraversion, and agreeableness can all be positive given the proper context. And they can all be negative given another context. The key is knowing your makeup of these to inform yourself how it could affect your level of neuroticism. Being low in openness and agreeableness can fuel someone's anxiety. So they should attempt to eat new foods and also attempt to let someone else make plans or set rules without launching into a cynical rant. Before you know it, they're more relaxed and happy and getting laid, haha. Or achieving whatever their goal is.
@@thunderpooch I think my situation is bizarre man, I really do. I don't even know how to describe it, but I do wanna get away from my family and everyone I know.
@@Dev-vm9gi Most everyone does unless they're Star Spangled awesome and often told so by society. Then they usually like being in the public arena because they think they're a gift to all of humanity. Most people feel put upon to one degree or another by others and society, and like to hide away from time to time.
We are lonely loners. I feel safe among people whom I trust. I struggle with some people trying to dominate me, especially men. I may not be as avoidant as I thought. I am in sales and handle rejection far better than I used to. I took a huge risk and moved 2,000 miles away from my impoverished hometown. I have a master’s degree. If I feel safe, I converse and am a good listener. I am much more forgiving of my mistakes and others’ mistakes, too. I want quality relationships where I don’t feel pressured into sexual intimacy. I have found individuals with high emotional intelligence are the ones whom I enjoy the most. I can feel very deep joy. I appreciate those who appreciate my uniqueness. Thank you. Good video.
Your sharing is an important part of my self-discovery and treatment. Thanks It's good to know what I have with full scores on the criteria. I seek for closer relationship while being feared of so much things passively in a way I can't really explain. I always criticise myself, my thoughts, my emotions without being able to stop it most of the time. And yeah, it does not seem like a serious concern (for my case). Even I think I can live on this world with AVPD but I will just feel incapable of being happy as much as others somehow. If I were telling my parents/relatives they would think I over thought because AVPD's symptoms sound so typical and I wouldn't be able to explain it good enough. Being informed that my behaviour could be improve is a good news. On the other had, it gave me a wave of sadness when hearing that the major cause is genetic and childhood and also that the treatment will improve my life but probably still won't let me feel emotions and understand myself/others like the way I see others do and I want that so much.
that is really weird. My mom had paranoid schizophrenia and I am pretty sure that the AVPD pretty much describes me. It was really interesting as to those two being related.
Never knew there was a name for my “issue” but at 64 I know now! At this age I can get away with it - I just say no, I don’t want to but when I was younger my life was a battle. I discovered alcohol and that got me through social settings. Was diagnosed with depression 25 years ago.
As an adolescent one of the labels put on me was schizoid. I spent 13-17 split between street kid and in patient duel diagnosis institutions and group homes. 30 years later, looking back and reflecting things have become more clear and videos like this have helped me. My primary issue that impacts my life is BPD that evolved from impulsive/ self destructive to discouraged style. There is clear comorbidity with CPSD and AVPD traits. I cut off all friends and romantic relationships for the past 17 years, recently I have found a small network of people that have helped me start to recover. I do not have the financial resources for professional help, I am trying to implement a self help plan based off DBT/ CBT and 12 step programs. My closest friend regularly points of my growth and change of thinking and patterns. I have a long way to go, will likely never be "normal", but have hit a point where I feel there is hope that there is hope for me. Thank you for this video, it helped clarify something that has bothered me for a long time, schizoid label did not make sense to me.
I don't know how to work this correctly, but thank you so much for pointing out the difference between how someone's behavior impacts our society versus how their internal experience impacts their personal functioning and well-being, and how that impacts access to treatment. I can't express how important it is for us to understand our clients as individuals with internal experiences that are impacted by a multitude of factors. In the end, their experience is what matters the most, their health, their safety their overall well-being is what is most important in treatment. Oftentimes if you are someone who has dramatic behavior who is perceived as being arrogant or acting out, you are less likely to be seen as someone "worth" getting treatment. If you are someone who has symptoms that are less disruptive to our everyday lives, you are going to be less likely to get the treatment you need at all. We need to learn, as mental health treatment professionals, to always look at the client's experience first, what they want, and empower them to reach the goals that they want to reach. Not focus on how it impacts us personally or society. Context: I am a bachelor's level mental health worker. I work as an Employment Specialist utilizing the IPS model to assist clients in finding and maintaining employment.
On one hand you don't want to live in constant fear of rejection, being judged and feeling inadequate but on the other hand you also don't want to feel completely alone, depressed and living a life without purpose. So instead you do something kinda in between, avoiding most stuff, flying under the radar, doing the bare minimum to just get by and not feel completely overwhelmed. But deep inside you feel like you're wasting your life because you know you have so much more to give.. but the question is always how?
This disorder really sucks. But I still try to love life as much as I can. Gotta work with what you got.. Keep on fighting the good fight.
...............
Yup....
(Gulps)
Well now I’m crying 🙃
That is a precise description dude, you nailed it. Keep on fighting!
@@Ohmylyddie im crying too. At the same time it feels wonderful that he can describe how it is.
Exactly how I have been my whole life!
I think that one of reasons why this disorder is a little dismissed could be because it only causes problems to the person who has it. The person is not violent, agressive, abusive towards others, and causes little to no damage, so a lot of people may think "why bother?"
Exactly Alessandra! But inside it's always huge. In my case, just like Dr Grande said, you can change your behavior, which helps slightly, but I am always vigilant to any sign that people think I'm just an idiot, or not impressive, or not good enough, in any situation. Anytime I dare think that I am "good enough" someone or something comes along to smash that belief. For me, that reinforces my initial thoughts and makes me feel like a fool for even thinking otherwise. It's debilitating, and despairing in all areas of life. It's then especially destructive to me, because to feel that way feels childish and ridiculous as an adult..
@@luvbearbut I feel you. My biggest fear is loneliness at an old age, to have absolutely nobody who cares for you. Just to live with your memmories. Life is so sad.
@@neinsager3236 "I used to think the worst thing in life was to end up all alone. It’s not. The worst thing in life is ending up with people who make you feel all alone." ~ Robin Williams
That, as well as they don't want to engage with the treatment system and are therefore difficult to monetize.
@@WillyEckaslike Absolutely truth. I have just discovered, at the age of 64, what the issues I’ve had in life were all about - Avoidance Personality Disorder. It actually hit me in the face earlier today as I watched another video by Dr. Grande about AvPD verses SPD. I was floored to find out this disorder actually exists - and that there are other people in this world who are the same as me. I have dealt with these issues all my life - through military service and then in Child Protective Services - and it was a very, very hard road to travel, but, I made it, and now in retirement, I don’t have to force myself into social situations that I don’t want to stress about. I’m growing old alone, and I’ve come to accept it and be perfectly content with myself and my 2 pugs.
I have AvPD among other things, and the best qualifier I ever heard was “ the inability to foresee positive outcomes”.
I find it to be a life destroyer.
Yes. If we only see (or only focus) on how the chances we take could go wrong, we won't take most chances. And we won't generally do well.
Here for ya bro. -Vince
Well that applies to depression too lol
What's a positive outcome?
All the best, mate.
Well, when you're old enough, you'll have ample evidence for the negative. Lol
Sometimes the avoidance comes when we don't know how to set boundaries or express them, especially if we were punished or rejected when we expressed them in the past.
also having been criticized for every single thing you do that is different from the perception of your care takers, also never getting any pocket money, never taking you and buying you
clothes, you cant have your own opinion as you are going to be ridiculed or told off that you are annoying.
Good point!
@@linlinali I didn't notice that I I wasn't giving pocket money to my children and some people mentioned it on my life and your comment so I started with a little, the happiness on their faces and the independent feeling they got just with a few dollars was surprising. Thank you for the tip.
What you are talking about reminds me of a gardening observation. Say you have a patch of allysum, and it's blooming, and you mow it down. It will come back again, stronger than ever. Then you mow it down again, and it comes back, but doesn't bloom. The next time, it doesn't come back at all. A child's will is like that. Parents who want to break a child's will are destroying the thing that will sustain them in life.
This all makes sense
This guy is the real deal. Very few cuts and edits if any. He expressed pure knowledge. I subscribed.
No he is full of it they keep mixing schizoid and avoidant.. avoidant desire change, involvement but are subject to a control group that devalues them. It's to risky and their compartment or role becomes disposable.
i would like to think i have a good nose for bullshit, dr grande opens enough doors of thought for me to be convinced that grasping the science can give an insight into some scenarios
Are you kidding? all of his videos are full of cuts and excessive eye blinking. It's Grande's Disorder.
@@stephenwilliams5350 Oh no-Grande has E.E.B.D.!! How can we believe a word the man says!?
He avoids bullshit. I like that.
I have this. I suspect it was due to my Narcissist Mom an Covert Sister. I was constantly criticized and became afraid criticism. My hypervigilance makes me have constant anxiety when I am around my loved ones. I haven’t spoken to my friends since high school or my Cousins in 6 years. I pretty much live the life of a Loner.
You're not the only one , I have the same too , narcissistic mother and a covert younger sister . I feel much more peaceful when I'm alone then when I am with my family .
Same.. loners unite!
@@kevinhornbuckle so you're saying they should be...
...
avoided?
Me too x
Same. I avoid literally everyone.
I can definitely see this in myself. I’ve always avoided social interaction because I felt inadequate...but I just chalked it up to being an “introvert”.
SAME. I'm starting to realize I might actually be an extrovert
Once you enter a room you have to be social, I need people🥰
Me too man people make you feel like shit when your younger and they have no idea what it can do to people when they grow up
Is very common people using the label "introvert" to justify personality disorders like these. Is very annoying and misleading
No. True introverts like social interaction. They just get drained more easily than extroverts do.
I almost avoided clicking on this video because I was worried I’d feel called out lmfao
And why is that a bad thing ??? I like when these videos relate to me cz i might learn something usefull about a problem that i have
Snakehole. bad ass name
Man yall I cant even.
Snakehole? You mean vagina?
You’re okay! 😅 It’s better to know & being informed! I might have that too lol 😆
I spent over 10 years in psychotherapy and suffered through many false diagnoses until one competent clinician finally determined that I was a high functioning autistic. He said I have text book Aspbergers syndrome. I'm 70 years old and I feel free for the first time in my life
I have been struggling with avoidance for my whole life. I started therapy a year ago, had to stop a couple months ago because of a too busy schedule. This video really opened my eyes as to why I need to go back.
I've been slacking off my studies, distracting myself with whatever I can find (movies, books, daydreaming), completely isolating myself for days in my room doing nothing.
This video has been like a slap in the face. It's so painful to watch, because I simply do not want to have to face myself. But it has helped me see I need to go back to therapy, I really need it. We did so much progress, and while we obviously didn't fix everything I've just been reverting to those old behaviours over again. I'm constantly afraid and ashamed. I find it difficult to even reach out to my therapist, because I don't wnat to bother them / feel ashamed of how badly I've been doing since I left therapy / feel like I deserve to just waste my life, because I'm not worth it.
It's so difficult to live with.
But thank you for this video.Truly.
I really relate to this.
Oh my god someone else who avoids going to doctors because they don't want to bother them! I'm not alone!
Felt this on a deep level
Dr. Grande reviews avoidant personality disorder - "1/5 stars, would recommend avoiding this disorder"
It is the one thing I wish I could avoid! ha
hahaha
Clever!
Fabulous
:-D
Wow! After almost 45 years, I think I finally realized I have APD and not all the others. Fits like a glove and bizarrely, I feel relief. Thank you, Dr. Grande!
Bryan M. Yes!
Same. My Counsellor never put a name on it, but it's me to a tee.
I agree and am almost on the exact same timeline as you.
@@mosluggo1 Are you employed? in a relationship? or no?
OP : Bro, i feel like that. I just had my second session of therapy earlier this month at 41.
Better late than never i guess.
I wish you the best.
I'm employed and quite appreciated (even if it was very hard for me), i used to have romantic relationships (i stopped because i was feeling inadequate).
I wish you the best outcomes possible.
If I had any feelings other than “happy” growing up, my mom didn’t want to hear it. I spent a lot of time alone in my room trying to cope with stuck emotions. I’m 40 now and am still trying to be free. I do try new things but it’s a huge mental push to be social and have real relationships.
I feel you, I think I spent most of my childhood alone in my room. Even when I was happy, I was a ‘nuisance’ to my parents (they told me regularly). I think the isolation I felt at home is what led me to force myself to engage with other kids, but I never really had close friends until high school. Even then I couldn’t understand why people wanted to be friends with me.
(Tbh it’s something I still struggle with. I’m the same age and it’s rough enough making new friends - but the added difficulty of this weird naïveté about how friendships work makes it exhausting.)
If only we didnt desperately want intimate relationships
Very enlightening! I especially appreciate how you called out the misperception of AvPD being not so serious, while it is, in fact, the most debilitating. Fair to presume that this misperception is likely rooted in its relatively mild effects on others. Obviously, because others typically don't have much contact/exposure to those suffering from AvPD. Thus, the external view is warped. Not prominently on the radar screen. Glad you called attention to this matter, Doctor Grande. You always see things at a deeper level. You're Good!
Grazi!
Honestly I think that goes back to people's inherent selfishness. I used to say "if you want a problem you can't solve to BE solved, make it someone else's problem. That's when they'll care, not before." That sounds cold asf.. but so are people, so it evens out.
It's robbed me of the life I was supposed to have.
Same buddy 🥺😢
We gotta make the best of what we got, its hard to do.
I feel exactly the same
Me too. A wasted life such a shame. On the plus side due to my avpd I have never had any children so at least I’m spared the torment of potentially introducing another human being into this hell. My bloodline ends with me and all I can say is good riddance to bad shit !!!!
No. You're really blessed beyond measure. You just don't know it yet.😊
From personal experience, I think shame and shaming is the most insidious factor in forming personalty...
I was officially diagnosed with avpd a few months ago, before that it was sad and cptsd. Started therapy years ago because I believed there was something fundamentally wrong with me that needed to be fixed, but turns out the thing that needs to be fixed is that I fundamentally believe there's something wrong with me.
There was emotional abuse and neglect from an early age. The most used interchangeable criticism and insult was that I was too sensitive so it really makes me wonder how much genetics played a role or was it a self fulfilling prophecy.
I feel the same
Its not genetics or self fulfilling prophecy - you sound overly responsible.
Others have to take resoonsibility for their actions - they are accountable.
And being emotionally abused and neglected would have left you seeking control over getting your most basic emotional needs met - this explains why you take responsibility for others poor treatment of you and the only two options you give for why this has happened in your life is, according to you, because of you somehow.
This is fundamentally untrue and I bet your abusers are very happy they have you in such a mental prison.
Manipulators often call their victims 'sensitive' as it is a good way to abdicate personal responsibility for their poor trearment of you.
They need you to believe that you feel the way you do because of you as this enables them to continue treating you like ****
It is time to invest in yourself.
It is time to back yourself.
And most importantly - it is time for you to CREATE YOUR OWN NARRATIVE FOR YOU, YOUR LIFE AND THE PEOPLE IN IT.
Be what they might consider 'sensitive' or 'selfish'
You could benefit greatly from CBT therapy.
All my opinion of course, hope something of it helps you.
How do you deal with the fear of criticism and rejection. Like what could a significant other do for you? And what should a person do if you feel like you want to avoid emotional discussions??? Especially if that other person is extremely upset???
Wow Ive gone through adhc, skizotypal, cptsd and have landed here. But only by own research because I cry profusely when I try to see a doctor and ask for help. I managed to do it for my back problems and am now diagnosed with bodily distress disorder. Meds helped that a lot, but now I have to wprk up the courage to ask for help again so I can get a real job. Im drowning in poverty, because I cant find a way to be succesfully self imployed and Im scared to death of having colleques... I have always felt something was really wrong with me, and was told all the time I was too sensitive and maybe crazy. I feel non deservant of help. Thanks for your comment, it feels good to see there is a possibility, that I only need to work on my beliefs, rather than change my whole personality to be accepted.
Genetics.
Seems that these feelings could be lessened by truly being loved in a stable encouraging environment! I know that would help me 😊
I'd be happy to love someone unconditionally.
As long as they meet certain conditions . . .
@@brusselsprout5851 lol men.. no unconditional love anymore.. men be out here thinking they wont grow old and shit 😂💀
@@MasterMalrubius well shit dont leave us hanging! Specify!
@@MasterMalrubius Ah yes, that's the paradox of love. Once certain conditions are met, love is unconditional.
sarah vand ...dream on!
Pretty sure I have this, and it has only gotten worse with time. I'm 25 and I have no friends at this point. I have never been in a relationship or had sex before. I have almost no hope that either of these things will ever change. Life feels empty and meaningless. I often feel like cutting my life short to spare myself the needless suffering.
Social anxiety and AVPD being on a continuum makes sense to me. My current state feels like an evolution of the social anxiety I had in middle / high school.
If you're alive can we talk like on reddit. I can 100% relate with your comment and I've been suffering too. I'm too 25 years old with both social anxiety and avpd with no friends. I need to question you sone questions and want to hear you more.
same
I know it's extremely hard but you have to force yourself to go out and meet people and try and find a girlfriend you will get turned down and some people will look down on you it's part of learning you will eventually meet friends and get a girlfriend do what you hate the most until you get good at it learn commutation skills that's the only way you will get better there is no other way you will be stuck forever if you don't force yourself to do these things try and seek help and find supportive people I hope the best for you I know how hard it is
I am 26 and I can relate too you very well. I also have schizoaffective disorder and PTSD :)))) so I am a bit negative towards the future...
Anyways there is hope for you out there. There is treatment for avpd.
Oh. My. Goodness. This is 100% my husband. He was diagnosed with social anxiety in his early 30s but is definitely more APD. And it's no wonder therapy hasn't helped us a lot as a couple since the APD diagnosis was missing coupled with the fact he could be resistant to change due to APD. Thank you so much. My husband is pretty open so I'm going to talk to him and show him this video.
It's good that you are looking at other personality disorders besides just narcissistic and borderline. Almost all available content seems to be about these two.
Well, I guess you're certainly correct about that: Dr. Grande seems to have focused on those disorders for a large number of postings. But--wow!--what a focus that was! This channel is a serious treasure trove of information/learning of those disorders, particularly narcissism which is playing a rather big role in our modern world at present. But as you said, now that narcissism seems to have been deeply explored, perhaps Dr. Grande will also be tackling some other topics as well, such as this one? But hey: whatever topic he decides to focus upon with his expertise, his videos are all highly fascinating and informative!
@@synapticimpulse7585 I didn't mean Dr Grande specifically. In fact he generally discusses quite a large variety of subjects. I meant that in general, wherever you look, including scientific publications, there is a lot more information about NPD and BPD than other personality disorders. This is striking, especially considering what Dr Grande says in this video, that AvPD is more common than these and associated with highest level of impairment (around 5:00).
Honestly, classifying disorders is pointless in my opinion. They're all so broad based that the criteria can apply to most anybody. It's why the big 5 factors of personality test is on a better footing and track to helping people than Myers Briggs testing or trying to classify disorders.
Simply know your personality traits, and then you'll see what you need to work on. It's much easier than applying "disorders" to yourself.
By knowing yourself more deeply, you'll avoid the need to label yourself as "disordered."
Because they're the most "inconvenient" for those looking in on those w mental illnesses, and so it matters more for society that they change. We can suffer, we can rot, they'll honestly fuel the necrosis
Yes every "psychology expert" loves overdiagnosing narcissism, they can also be found in the comments
I believe I have AVDP and the more I learn about it the more I feel like my whole personality is in fact a list of problems and flaws. Even the things I thought were positive, and a part of the "real" me. For example, I used to think I'm a really friendly person (despite the incapasitating fear of people) - but is it because of my fear of rejection? How do people cope when they realise that most of their personality is in fact a disorder and how do they bild a self image after that?
You are unique and beautiful. Don't get too far diagnosing yourself. Anyone can be diagnosed. Even the happiest, healthiest person on this planet.
Jacob Mitford well I know a young man who is BPD and he is very sociable but he struggles with identity a lot. He has taken to admiring super heroes and assigns their perceived strengths to himself. I don’t know if that’s healthy but he knows these ‘super heroes’ are actually fiction. He has days where he says, I’m having a day where I don’t know who I am.’ I and others remind him he a warm, friendly, intelligent, curious person who is wonderful to be around. However, we never know if it is the right thing to do. He sees a psychiatrist, a psychologist and attends many self help groups. So he is better off than most. We cannot assign a personality type to him but we see him as a good person.
Oh wow, that’s a really heavy idea. I wish you the best in your journey towards growth.
@@justanotherrandomaccount5920 I LOVE this reply!
I think that's the troubling thing about terminology such as "personality disorder" or the more old fashioned sounding "character disorder" It sounds judgmental and hyper-pathological. As opposed to something more neutral like "interpersonal coping disorder" or "coping maladaption syndrome" or something like that. Something would not make it sound like someone's whole self is a disorder.
Whenever I see videos on AVPD, it feels like it hits too close to home.
JessieBanana same
Same.
same, I got Apuger's maby this as well
Same, it’s been staring me in the face for a while. While knowing is a major step to wellness, this has basically come to my attention during COVID which I think feeds into AVPD like crazy.. If I weren’t partnered with someone that is hella understanding and who I can help as well, I really don’t know if I’d be as ok as I am. I’ve been feeling super withdrawn from so many in my life, namely family, and everyone lives on the other end of the country, so already I’d been less in the loop. I worry about reengaging when it’s just normal to do so again. I’m far too comfortable in this small bubble despite previously having my social life as a source of so many wonderful things. I’m hoping you have support from SOMEBODY that has your back for real and also have been helping others heal when life brings ppl your way. Much love, we got this!
Same. I feel judged, but then I have to remind myself that that is likely a distorted thought/feeling, and that mental health problems are not our fault. Nobody would blame a person for being born somewhat physically impaired, for example.
But we do need to work on our issues, however. We just need to figure out how to not feel shame while doing so. It's not our fault that we have a problem, and it doesn't make us bad people.
Very thoughtful, insightful, and helpful. AvPD can make us feel invisible, so it's incredibly valuable to feel seen and understood. Thank you.
I'm 99 percent sure this is the thing I've been struggling with my whole life and has caused me so much emotional pain that I can't talk about with anyone. Reading this comments section, It's nice to see that I'm not alone, although I'd never wish this on anyone.
BTW, I've never seen so many helpful, intelligent comments on a UA-cam video before!
I think I had this disorder. The symptoms sound very much like me at a young age. For 18 years now I fight it, and it gets a lot easier. Even though sometimes I still get triggered in some rare occasions, but my self image is quite healthy now.
What started the healing was my now husband, then boyfriend. He "saw" me. not the space I occupied, just my flaws, or just my outer shell. He saw me as a person, someone worthy of being listened to. We spent hours bouncing ideas and philosophies back on each other in those early days, and sometimes still do, if we manage to find a new interesting idea.
Later on in life, I had an psychotherapy. More for burn out and depression, but the dealing with the buried childhood traumas really helped ease me more with my avoidant behaviour.
Do you think you have fully come out of it and have a secure attachment style now?
What type of psychotherapy did you do?
Oh look you are talking about me again. Big time AVPD sufferer here.
Yes Demented Kennel. He talks about me quite often!!
Very insightful, particularly the last part about how behaviour change doesn't mean the issues are resolved...
I wonder if these are people who esp. feel like frauds. They can get along outwardly but feel inadequate internally.
Yes. Imposter Syndrome.@@gracerc6154
I have this disorder. Been diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety and Depression as well. I find it very difficult to trust others and mostly stay away from people when I can. Life is very lonely sometimes.
As an introvert with SAD and AvPD, the best and the worst part is nobody can really tell that I'm sick. I live a normal life, did well at school, and now have a well-paid job. The very few friends I have see me as naturally aloof, but inside I'm screaming, and a cloud seems to hang over me wherever I go. I crave for meaningful relationship but I can't trust and love anybody, not even myself. It's funny how I used to be a super emotional child, but was always punished whenever I threw a tantrum. Gradually I learned to not show my emotions anymore. I don't blame my parents though, knowing that it's hard to handle a child like me, but I can't help feeling doomed for life and envy those that are 'normal'. If amnesia were a treatment option I would gladly try it lol
I feel you.. 🥲🫂
I have similar experience as yours. I often look back at old family photos and see how expressive I used to be. I'd always try to be the center of attention in those pictures. Things took a complete turn after third grade of elementary school, however. My personality turned 180°. The cheerful expressions disappeared. I remember feeling ashamed of myself back then, so I'd always dodge the camera. If I did end up in a photo (in most cases because someone made me), I'd have no expression at all. I'd always try to hide behind something or someone, trying to not to be in the spotlight.
I've got an older sister who's incredibly self-centered and really abusive. I've always felt like she despised me from the day I was born. She'd shame me for everything I did, and she'd call me all sorts of terrible names like "loser," "loner," "failure," etc. School wasn't much better cause I was bullied from kindergarten all the way to high school. My parents weren't much help either (maybe because I'm the second child, and there's some stigma around that). Especially during puberty, when I needed their guidance the most, they'd just tell me to "man up" or "stop being a baby" whenever I tried talking to them about my internal struggles.
Right now, I feel so lost. There were times when I'd cry almost every night, realizing that so many people close to me in the past seemed to be against me. It feels like I couldn't have avoided ending up with this messed up personality. I stopped crying when I turned 21 (I'm 23 now). I've come to terms with the idea that maybe this is just my fate, and yeah, life isn't fair. So what if I'm stuck with a crappy destiny? In the grand scheme of this vast universe we live in, I'm just a speck of dust anyway. Life will always go on.
I'm in the exact same boat with being super emotional until becoming practically emotionless in front of others.
What do you work in? I’ve been jumping from job to job because I can’t cope.
Shoot I wish it was less obvious to others for me 😅 for me, it manifests as “oops I made a mistake at my new job, guess I can never go back,” or “oops said the wrong thing to that person, guess I'll have to avoid them forever” so yah its really obvious when you constantly come up with reasons to no show no call at your promising new dream job or suddenly ghost that close friend and literally never speak to them again for in everyone else’s mind no reason. I've never been able to maintain friendships or jobs and it SUCKS! 🫠
An excellent video. This is the last piece in the Venn Diagram of disorders that is me. It’s a truly crippling condition. So subtle in appearance but ultimately deadly. The difference between living a life, and simply existing. Not loved, not hated; invisible. Normal to the eye but so far behind normal trajectory, the intangible anomaly, I should just free up resources. I’m ADD, autistic, epileptic, schizencephaly and AvPD. I look completely fine, but I’m a malfunctioning reject with nothing to offer the world. My life was over the day I was born.
Brother, it sounds like there is much to deal with. I suppose turning up here means looking for answers. Just trying to understand and improve surely deserves points. Even if there are lots of dead ends. I think these theories make a lot of sense, and by knowing ourselves better, that overwhelming decent into madness becomes an option rather than an inevitability. Best of luck.
How did you/your Dr differentiate between autism and avpd?
I have avpd myself and I know that what I'm about to say will probably be brushed away, but I thought you should know that your comment made a difference to me. You have a very insightful way of describing a diagnosis that I've been struggling to define for years, and it feels good knowing that there are people out there who know what it's like to live with. You made a difference in my life.
The way you put it was actually pretty beautiful - you offered that
Dapps, you don't need to offer anything to the world. You don't owe it anything. I also struggle with brain malfunction and dishonour. In my case I'm hated by some, and have failed often. I've lost most of the things I had achieved or acquired. Freeing up resources for others sounds noble, but it also transfers my pain onto others. This is selfish on my part. Things have changed a lot in 4 months, with millions of people unable to offer to the world. They have no choice but to take. By just being around, spending money, moving the economy along, you are offering to be a necessary cog in a big machine, that feeds and supports society. By 'taking the pain', you are doing a doing a job that makes the lives of police and medical staff easier. For the government to dispose of the deceased is expensive, and traumatic for the emergency service providers. Besides just living with pain, there are methods that can sometimes reduce it, without narcotics. Being kind to yourself is also important, even though its not something people with mental disorders enjoy doing.
I was going to do something about my AvPD, but then.... I didn't.
Lol 😂
mappyhappychappy Could we say that you
Avoided the change?
@@deathstalkerx4415 I was going to answer the question. But then I avoided it entirely.
It took me a month to reply because I avoi avoi avoided replying
:-D Avoiding to become diagnosed with Avoidant PErsonality Disorder while working hard at being an unpaid student. I like that idea if I could get away with it while being a student for as short of a period possible while being only a 'Midwit' too.
I think this is what I have. I didn't always feel this way. I thought I was just depressed, but this seems more accurate. It sucks.
Tell me about it
Same. It sucks big time :/
Could be both. They most likely reinforce each other.
For real.
I actually think everyone I know is like that
AVPD feels as if you are trapped living a life of quiet desperation and no matter how hard you try you can't escape, but try you must.
Spot on. It's agony.
I feel like I have this, as I meet all the criteria. I thought I was "just awkward".
I have memories of being in high school, and having so much anxiety during presentations that I could not think. It was like an out of body experience, where I was hyper aware of myself. I hate that feeling of not being able to think or express myself, but it is a running theme in social situations for me.
When it’s my turn to contribute conversation, my mind similarly goes blank. The way I’ve learned to describe it to people is, I struggle to verbally express my stream of consciousness. The moment it happens, the words do not come.
I remember being in senior year, and I realized how much easier it was to just skip class days that had presentations. It was… incredibly damaging to my high school grade at the time.
In university, I didn’t skip class days to avoid things like this anymore, but I still failed public speaking because of this physiological response. I couldn’t finish speeches. I still remember the despair I felt when the teacher said that speeches are basically a conversation with an audience, that it should be fluid and that recitation word for word was bad. She described a skill completely foreign to me, the most averse thing in my life, and told me that it was what I needed.
Due to that, I failed public speaking, and similarly scored a low grade in my foreign language class.
Both were necessary courses to graduate, so this knowledge that I had to repeat public speaking was… I don’t have words for it. It induced terror in me like nothing else.
This, paired with a mediocre grade across other subjects put me on academic probation, and completely killed any motivation I had to continue. It loomed over me and affected my self esteem with so much intensity, until I quit university, and my heart finally felt normal again.
Logically I understand this isn’t most people’s experience with university, but my emotion/raw intuition tells me things like, “I don’t understand how people can get through this.”
I also really struggle to talk about things that I like, or what I am feeling/going through. I am better at asking questions/being emotive in conversations because I am fortunate to know many kind, unjudgmental friends online who helped me practice a lot in VC. But I still see these behaviors and responses even today.
I never recite stories of my childhood, and never talk about what’s going on in my life or how I’m feeling beyond anything superficial. I have just learned at this point in my life that there are things that stop my brain, and I avoid them.
I accept myself now, and don’t hate myself anymore. I tell myself I would rather live by my strengths than resent myself for my weaknesses.
I am 28 years old now. It's been 11 years since I spent entire class periods of 90 minutes in a bathroom stall just to avoid standing up in front of a class for 3 minutes.
It is interesting to me how, no matter how long it’s been, these feelings or body responses never completely go away.
Different country but same for me. You should have seen me playing the flute in front of the class in middle school. It was something ...
I’m like, 95% sure I have this. I’ve been with my now wife for nearly 5 years and anytime we have gone to her family’s house, (she has 11 siblings) I never have felt like I connected and I’m constantly feeling intense discomfort when I’m in the same room with others or someone tries conversing with me. I try to avoid everyone if I can and end up “resting” in the room we’re staying in. I’ve avoided most jobs where I have to interact with other people and I go blank during conversations and that’s kept me from forming friendships and relationships which I would love to have but I’m too scared. I do have a past that I’m relatively ashamed of so I don’t know if that has to do with it. I just know that when I’m drinking or drunk, I don’t feel it at all. I feel so much better. I need help.
tell her your prob and get her to be with you always when visiting supportin gyou through it. drink is the wrong way. ssri maybe helps
Well at least you have your wife.Though, I'm curious to know how you found her if you say you have trouble conversing and forming relationships with others in the first place, especially in person. Was it instead online? Or do you think this disorder maybe all perhaps developed more recently for you?
Regardless, I feel you dude-like unequivocally. Besides the drinking and wife part. Hope you're not struggling with alcoholism there on top of it. Nothing wrong with drinking I suppose, but indulging in that too much will only make it worse. God be with you to get whatever help that you need. I'm sorry.
Overdifferentiation causes too much overlap between what should be categorically more distinct. In some way I don't envy young clinicians of our days. They must be horribly confused all the time! Thank you for your efforts bringing sense into it, doctor. In no way can this be fun all the time...! yours, 🐰
It is like how the political compass is highly flawed.
Gracias!! ♥ Im 30 now, i just realized I have this disorder, knowing the name of what has happened in almost all my life feels like a hug.
For me, I don't necessarily avoid relationships/interactions because someone might not like me, it's more that the first time I say or do something wrong, my brain goes straight to, “well they’ll never want anything to do with me again”.
I fulfill all 7 criteria for Avpd. However, I was never neglected as a child. My disorder came out of having a traumatic time at school and obviously not being able to handle it mentally.
If anybody can relate here I'd love to hear it.
same
All 7 here, too. No childhood abuse or trauma, but my father was all 7, and I'm practically a clone.
Hi y'all. Sending you love.
It's a shame it robs of life experiences worth living.
Hugs.
There was some unintentional neglect at home as parents were pre occupied with other things. But it wasn't so severe as my bullying in school which basically revolved around calling me worthless and isolating me. I think that aggravated already there feeling of inadequacy and being unlovable. It has destroyed my life, quietly.
@@debopriya14 You have worth and you are lovable! I bet my life on that.
The best use of therapy for people with AvPD is to find more adaptive coping techniques for existing with the disorder. The biggest problem for therapists is accepting the frustration of slow progress.
@Anarcho Frills Wow. Rethink your plans. You are cracked and will be an abusive therapist. You think they will be willing victims, but eventually you will be sued and your house of cards will come tumbling down.
@Anarcho Frills Where can I find the source that all PDs have been found to have deficits in mentalization and thus, according to you, lack of empathy?
@Quack Quark Heck, I have every disorder. I must be in perfect balance. The world is just jealous of my awesomeness, so I avoid them. ;)
@Quack Quark I think all the main personality disorders apply to me, some slightly more than others. So ultimately, I think they're useless for myself and for most.
The fact is I have a propensity for depression and anxiety. The other labels tend to pathologize the mere existence of being a biological life form trying to navigate life.
The questions you're supposed to ask yourself to qualify for these disorders are far too easy imo.
I'm not expressing this as well as I did for another post on here. Seek out my lengthy answers there if you're still curious.
I break down why I think the big 5 personality trait test is substantially more usefull and helpful, as opposed to individuals and even psychiatrists trying to apply personality disorders from the DSM. I think only a very small percentage of people deserve such labels, and that most people are needlessly berating themselves for having a disordered personality.
“When a toxic person can no longer control you, they will try to control how others see you. The misinformation will feel unfair, but you stay above it, trusting that other people will eventually see the truth just like you did.” - Jill Blakeway
I disagree that APD is associated with low self-esteem, feeling defective, or no self worth, at least in my case. I actually think very highly of myself, but I anticipate that most people - for whatever reason - aren't going to understand or appreciate me... Maybe that's APD with a helping of NPD on the side... And can I just say that the new workplace "culture" in which we're all supposed to be one big happy family and hang out together and eat meals together and brainstorm together and socialize together and make presentations all the time is a nightmare for people like us? So glad I'm able to retire soon!
I feel the same. When im alone i sometimes think of myself as quite talented in my hobbies, but when i actually show my work on front of other people, i assume they dont like it and i feel like an untalented loser
@@Mo-mc3mw I think that is more like social anxiety. Where you believe in your worth but are worried about what others think. With avoidant personality you believe you are inferior and are worried about other people finding that out if you interact with them.
whenever i read up on AVPD, i dont quite identify with the characteristic of being avoidant of general social interactions in school/work.
i think i maintain a rather high level of social functioning (i do think people generally think im pretty “normal” and decent at socialising as well) but especially if i get closer to people, i start to get more and more fearful and anxious of interacting with them and have a tendency to avoid interacting with them especially one on one although i actually do want to talk to them (i mean.. of course since theyre my good friends). im not sure why i act like that but i guess its because since my friends and i are in a good place in our relationship, i so desperately want to avoid the risk of the interaction taking a bad turn (eg awkward) which would end up making me feel ashamed and feeling like im inherently socially inept. im tired of feeling this way about myself so i just want to avoid it completely in the midst of uncertainty. and also i feel like every social interaction i have is somewhat like a ‘test’ i have to make it through rather than something that im actually enjoying. all i feel after having a social interaction that isnt awkward or anything is that its a ‘success’ and a sense relief. in my mind, a failed interaction is something i have to work hard to avoid and i feel like im always on the verge of ruining a relationship as social interactions increase.
ive never seen someone talked about this before and wondered if i actually have avpd. im still learning more about it because i just heard about this disorder just yesterday (this disorder is really not well known!!!!) and have been identifying with it quite alot, i suspect that i do have avpd (although i dont want to self diagnose).
any more info?? (did u get diagnosed). Cause damn resonating w this especailly about interactions becoming "tests" that u can succeed or fail in...I suppose most people dont feel like that lmfao
@@miraculous_posts1810 holy shit I feel that way too, 26M
I’ am fighting off 💪🏽a Dependent Personality in myself(also empathic) so I can see vary clearly how this person could be suffering inside of themselves.(from my perspective), thanks for a very good video.
I've been trying to figure out what's wrong with me for years and just haven't been found why I constantly feel this way. Thank you for your detailed explanation!
Dr. Grande, thank you for your kind and thoughtful comments. Also, the clarity of your presentation is refreshing.
I like being isolated. I like being alone. I have been treated for depression. My behaviour doesn’t affect anyone else. I’m highly vigilant and have chronic anxiety. I’m a poor judge of character and keep making friends with people who are compulsive liars. My solution is to avoid everyone. I’m 80 years old. Covid has given me the excuse needed to isolate at home. It’s hard to believe any differently when you are constantly told you are inferior and stupid by your parents as a child. I wonder if childhood abuse causes permanent brain damage. I also had a traumatic brain injury aged ten and think I got stuck with the emotional immaturity of a ten year old. I’m learning to accept myself as I am and think this is as good as it gets. Thank you Dr Grande for your compassion.
I end up revisiting these Comprehensive Reviews every few months. They're just so wonderfully well-organized and the little "clinical pearls" throughout are interesting enough to warrant a relisten. So good!
I think I have this disorder but I have no insurance and I feel like I can’t get help. It makes me so sad that I have no friends and I feel so uncomfortable when I go to social outings because I feel like everyone thinks I’m weird I feel younger than everyone even when I’m older. I’ve lost jobs and I have just left without even getting paid. The only people I can be around without feeling this way are my boyfriend and daughter I even feel this way around my family. I want to have friends and have fun but I just can’t.
I feel exactly the same
The last bit of the video really spoke to me. I went to a psychologist for 2 years or so, i was never diagnosed with AVPD, i was never diagnosed with anything. We just talked and figured out ways together for me to make more positive actions and to find my self worth. I relate to five symptoms or so mentioned in this video, but i notice that i overcame the behavioral impairments because of the therapy. Yet i still do feel so unworthy and inferior in almost all social situations. I don’t feel at home almost anywhere and don’t feel comfortable with almost anyone, even though i go to the same social gatherings for like 4 years now. On the other hand i do feel comfortable with my family and boyfriend. I also have to say that there’s been a lot of progress in feeling that way and it’s a lot better now, but i don’t think i’ll ever get rid of the feeling. I feel so uptight around others, even though i’m actually not. I want to show others who i am and what i do and what i love, but i just can’t.
I appreciate the level of detail in this video.
Thankyou for this post. It is so accurate !! I easily and totally meet all of the criteria for AvPD., and remain undiagnosed. This condition is debilitating, at times exhausting, and affects thoughts continually. I am amazed that there appears to be minimal awareness of this personality disorder still. Doing my own research, and discovering that my issues are real, and not unique has been some comfort in some way.
I fully realise that I am not qualified to diagnose myself, but as I so definately meet all of the criteria and behaviours, I find AvPD. difficult to discount.
Again, an awareness has been helpful, and I sincerely thank you for your post.
I love it when Dr. Grande goes into professor mode and really offers a thorough summary of textbook information referencing the DSM 5 and all of its predecessors. These videos always make me think of a college course in a formal educational setting. Bravo Dr. Grande, I hope you continue to make more of these videos in the present/future.
I'm 6 minutes in, but just have to say this is a fantastic video :) very insightful !!
Fascinating- your explanation was riveting- I only wish it was longer, I could listen for hours.
👌
Exactly ! It is so wonderfully explained !
Love your transparency around your professions shortcomings. Really helps to form trust in getting therapy. Also helps in understanding that even diagnosed disorders are evolving and a moving target. Thanks!
i was diagnosed with this a few months ago along with mdd and gad after living with it for around 10 years. been on medication since the diagnosis and feeling way better, which i never thought i’d say. it can get better, just keep pushing
I’ve been to many therapists. My diagnosis has always been anxiety and depression. After watching this video I was shocked, because I know for certain I have this avoidant personality disorder combined with depression and anxiety. What really caught my attention was I crave connection with people, especially my family. I have no friends. As for therapists I end therapy when I feel the therapist sees me as a failure to get well.
I don't see my avoidance as a disorder, more a defence mechanism! The amount of cluster b' women that are around as standard in Britain is disturbing. I will watch this a couple more times, and digest it thoroughly. Thanks again, Grande. 😎✔
Oh thanks MH I tend to agree.
Agreed, I was very avoidant when I was younger, and it was a self-defense strategy on my part.
@@kevinhornbuckle YES, I agree.
I'm watching it for a 2nd time and will more than likely watch it a few more times. It's a great video.
@Anarcho Frills Narcissist behaviour is purposely destructive towards others. My behaviour harms nobody, and if anything, protects everyone. I own my property, and see my grandchildren and daughter nearly every day.
After what I've been through, only a sadist would risk a repeat. I'm actually not interested in intimate relationships with anyone except my chosen immediately family, so I'm not keen on your undertone to be honest.
Maybe it's a misperception, but the feeling I'm getting right now is one that you're trying to devalue decades of my experiences which I've overcome, and insert your own assumption, 'defending' Narcs/borderlines/psychopaths.
If it's supply you're after, I suggest going elsewhere, because your comment really doesn't sit well with me right now.
It's feels 'off' - that's a red flag. I don't do 'red flags'.
That is an excellent rview, Dr. Grande. Very clear, dispels some common confusions, and also honest about the points that are still not well understood. Informative, precise and non-dogmatic. Well done, indeed!
It’s weird how my avoidance has developed over my life. As a child, I was always out there in an extrinsic way and always had the energy and joy of being myself. It was almost always encouraged from my parents of being this way and led me being like this for most of my childhood. I then had a traumatic experience with someone and it had led to my parents viewing me in a negative way and this situation had led me to crawl into a shell and not express how I truly felt because of the way my parents had reacted. This whole situation was almost like a stain on the floor that has been covered with a carpet and both me and my parents had forgotten it, but was never truly resolved in a way where both sides look at each other the same in a truly loving way. I now live in this avoidance type of way where I isolate myself because that’s the only way I’m truly happy because I know I have myself and only I can truly love myself without being judged. It’s to the point where I’m more happy by myself rather than with my family. And when I’m pushed into social circumstances where I’m almost expected to be interactive and social with other people, I have the mental and physical fatigue of not wanting to, but deep down spiritually, I want to express myself and just be me and have fun and socialize, but the other half holds back and creates this inner conflict of built in emotions that causes almost a nervous breakdown that I have to hold in with all my might until I can isolate myself from the environment/situation where I can then vent it all out. I am totally self aware of all this and know what is “wrong” with me but I just don’t know what’s the proper first step to take.
They ideally want relationships, but because of past experiences learned to expect it to not work. So they adopted the goal of avoiding contact, possibly even leading to developing psychosomatic symptoms, to safeguard. Expect better outcomes, don't make your self-worth depend on other people's judgment, learn to separate tasks. I recently read "The Courage to be disliked" and Adlerian philosophy and it just makes sense tbh. Too early to know for sure if it will work, but for now I feel much better already.
this is true.... 😭
Thank you for understanding and expressing the seriousness of this disorder. It is really debilitating and painfully distressing. Worst it really affects one's quality of life, it impedes meaningful connection with others and they miss out on so much of life.
Thanks once again, Dr. Grande. Childhood neglect by parents and early bullying/rejection by peers play a major role in the development of AvPD. How much do you believe comes in the form Cluster B abuse? In particular, BPD and NPD? Would you consider doing a video on common adult outcomes of Cluster B abuse (parental and otherwise) on children?
Anarcho Frills agreed. Cluster C’s usually abuse by being emotionally neglectful
Anarcho Frills agreed. And you’re spot on about their behaviors.
My parents are cluster B’s. My dad is a somatic narcissist and my mother was a covert one around him and other adults but not around my brother and I. Her narcissism was right in our faces disguised as “good parenting” and “loving my children more than other parents.” That propaganda was a load of gaslighting hooey.
Sounds a lot like traumatized victims of malignant narcs
Joseph exactly that
Or BPD. I think my mother has BPD and i definitely relate to the AvpD diagnosis
exactly
Bingo
AVPD aka scapegoats of toxic families
I managed to deal with this disorder for years by doing drugs and drinking and this was the only way I could socialize at all. Now I'm 2 years clean and I have my boyfriend and nobody else. 1 friend that I've had since high school. I even feel nervous around my dad sometimes. It's hard
The depth of your analysis is incredible. I've never experienced anything in a classroom or read anything in a book that examines human psychology with such imagination and attention to detail. I almost wish I had just given you all the tuition I paid and just skipped college all together.
That was so profound how you described that Cognitive Behavior Therapy "artificially" changes behavior with limited results instead of tackling the internal problem and the change in behaviour resulting.
I am suspected of having AvPD, I see/saw myself as unappealing (which was also true on account of obesity and skin conditions) as well as socially inept/inferior (which is also true on account of lifelong self-isolation/exclusion so I just didnt get as much opportunity to develop social skills). The tricky bit is that those feelings of being unappealing, socially inept and inferior may be largely realistic self-evaluations.
On a related note, AvPD and NPD (vulnerable) are really similar, but differentiate on an axis of ethics/morality.
interesting... how so?
Part of the disorder is lack of insight which is probably why you think your feelings of being unappealing and socially inept might on some level be realistic self evaluations. You have kind eyes. Please try to look at yourself kindly with those eyes. You are very, very, very probably wrong about being unappealing. Social skills can be learned.
E WILLIAMS The unappealing bit was realistic. Perhaps not always, and not recently that I got around to doing something about it. Altough post weight loss body dysmorphia still has the feeling linger. From the comments I received from friends and family after transformation, it is pretty clear that the unappealing feeling was realistic.
Yes social skills can be learned, but the feeling of social ineptness/inferiority is perfectly describing the present. It isnt logically consistent to ascribe the feelings to an irrational self-evaluation and simultaneously acknowledge that individuals with a disorder related lack of social skill are socially inept and as a consequence their position on the dominance hierarchy is very low (inferiority).
Compassion for others with the disorder is kind, but it must not invalidate the concerns, which are real (rational or not) for those with the disorder. Those with the disorder have to acknowledge their beliefs (maladaptive or otherwise), accept them and find ways to deal with them productively.
Watcher WLC both AvPD and NPDv (vulnerable) underlie low self esteem, guilt, an unstable sense of self, low empathy and insight, a drive for external validation and receiving narcissistic injury. The way a AvPD copes is to withdraw, isolate and assume something is wrong with them. The way an NPDv copes is to confront, control, manipulate, demean and assume something is wrong with everybody else. A plausible way to explain how this comes to be is that an AvPD rejects methods of coping that are disrespectful of others. To be aware what is and isnt respectful, there needs to be some moral and ethical sensitivity. NPDv dont perceive their disrespectful behavior as wrong, so they lack that sensitivity.
Anarcho Frills AvPD can manifest in narcissistic behavior, for instance wasting everybodies time with a meeting that had a scheduling conflict and got avoided to be canceled.
Dr Grande,
You have been the most helpful, logical, scientific, level headed educational clinician I have ever heard. I have benefitted from watching so many of your you tubes and sharing them. You are making a huge impact on helping increase awareness of mental health topics. Thank you so much
Thanks for this video! I was diagnosed with AvP a few days ago (comorbid with depression, for which I received treatment before) so I am trying to understand myself better as I go into treatment soon. Feeling the desire for intimate relationships but being unable to form one is really the hardest part for me. I guess that I am a rare case that I don't have a high sensitivity for negative feedback, I actually love having discussions with people that challenge my way of thinking and view of things, including my personality. Also I actually want a job (and also currently have) where I am around people a lot, but I don't have deep conversations at all during those interactions so my anxiety is pretty low and easy to manage. For me the real difficulty lies in my inferiority complex, social issolation (I avoid meeting with friends when I am not well mentally) and not seeing the good side of my personality.
O.M.G. Your intro vividly describes a personal experience with difficulty in determining my own issues. Thank you!
Very insightful. Since you can’t change how your feelings are formed, the only thing to do would be to brave yourself into the situations that are frightening and uncomfortable (but important for progress in life, however one defines it), knowing there will be pain along the way. At least that’s my takeaway.
Thanks for the video on AVPD! I have someone in my life who struggles with it so this gives me peace of mind in the sense that I understand the disorder better and why he has acted as he does, all these several years that I’ve known him.
I just want to say that what you do means a lot to me and I’m sure to a lot of others as well. Thank you!
Amazing video Dr. Grande!
Very comprehensive and well delivered. You are an excellent public speaker.
This man has given me incredible insight into my behaviors and those of my relationships. Thank you and may you continue to use this platform for education, treatment, and enhancement of mental health awareness.
Dr. Grande, your videos are excellent in the ability to present the material in a manner accessible to an intelligent layperson without oversimplification of the complex issues being discussed.
My therapist years ago told me I have this. If I am humiliated I have a very severe emotional reaction. I know that people will eventually dislike me so I push them away usually. I am married because it was basically “arranged” between his mom and mine because whenever anyone had any interest in me for a relationship I ran away, sometimes literally. We have been married almost 25 years and I have been dealing with his ADHD the whole time but I couldn’t imagine ever having another relationship. I do so wish that I could just feel free with people and interact with them but I always feel like I am watching from outside through a window to the happy laughing people and I am out in the cold. I guess it was from having a psycho for a dad and a mom who was a bit of a cold fish and rather dealt with my younger brother who had adhd himself. I grew up rarely speaking and I knew people thought I was a weirdo. I would just rather be alone. The bullies had a field day with me.
You have such a nice calming voice.
I wish there was a website/organization that would help employ those that are plagued with this disorder. We don't want to go sit through a dreadful interview where we basically are tormented with how disfunctional we appear and how bad we look on paper from ducking and dogding our whole life. Look, we've just been trying to manuever through the world the best way we know how with a mind that fights against us. We just want to clock in and work somewhere without the shaming process of interviews and answering for our disfunction.
I am diagnosed with AvPD and a psychology student so it is kind of confusing on what is going on around me and myself, Thank you for this video it helps me understand myself better
Dude you are the counselor's educator educator! Love how you really dig into this to uncover a crippling disorder that has been overlooked and you back up your statement using sensible why's and how's. Did that make sense? And your further breakdown on "perceived as positive " external behavior change via CBT treatment versus the actual internal apparatus still directing the negative feelings/thoughts of the sufferer is and reaching even further into the why of treatment failure is spot on.
As someone that has gone through lots of CBT and has AvPD, I can completely validate him saying that you can change behavior but it’s not meaningful to the person. Avoidant personality disorder is such a perception based disorder. You have to be able to see the whole picture different not just move items in the picture. It so tough to keep any hope when you can change behavior and see not much payoff for it. Personally looking in psilocybin as a treatment method,
Thank you for making videos about AvPD. Counselors know so little bit about it and there’s not a lot of research on it. The mental health world needs to have more knowledge and awareness about AvPD.
Wow, thank you Dr. Grande! This really resonated with me. I've heard so little about AVPD, as opposed to other disorders. I recognize myself (my younger self) in this; I had 4 of the 7 traits. I say "had", because I believe I am an example of someone who managed to overcome (outgrow) it gradually. With me, it began when I entered 7th grade at a new school. That coinciding with puberty seemed to be part of it. I became horribly self- conscious, insecure, low self esteem. But I desperately wanted to be different. I refer to myself as having been "pathologically shy". There likely was both a genetic and environmental etiology. In my case it led me into a tendency to self-medi cate with alcohol and drugs to "relieve" my discomfort. Which didn't work out too well in the long run (or even short term at the time.) I'm sure I had other co-morid tendencies as well. But I do know from my own experience that it IS possible to break out of this debilitating condition. In my 20's, after having been through a short abusive traumatic marriage I was widowed, and had a 2 year old daughter. I at least felt I had earned some real self respect, as well as respect and affection from my inlaws, as I had lovingly cared for my husband during his last 6 months, despite his former treatment of me. They were kind of a toxic family anyway, but I felt I'd finally done something tangible to prove my self worth. I then managed to get technical training for a job position in the ICU of a hospital. That was a big victory for me, because I HAD to "get over myself" and learn to become assertive. My tendency had previously always been to give up and quit. So the more tangible gains I made in the world, the more confidence I gained, and I stopped perceiving myself as unworthy, or as the center of the universe or the butt of every joke. I gradually began to have a more realistic image of myself, not of being awful, or being perfect (or needing to be) but just of being OK as a human being. I've still struggled with other demons since then, but I hope that sharing this can bring someone else hope.
Thank you so much for sharing. It give me hope
i very much can relate to these symptoms. the only one i don't relate to as much is avoiding people in my line of work or in school.
despite everything, i learn best through conversation, so i don't always present as avoidant as i might otherwise...
but if i deal with mostly strangers during the day at work, that's ideal for me. i love people, and i love helping people. but the more i know or see someone, the more afraid and upset i become at the prospect of seeing them again.
i've also become overly agreeable [acting as therapist as a child for my parents and friends, obsessive work habits, not complaining, not expressing emotion, etc] simply so that i am viewed as being helpful or a productive asset, and not seen "the way i am". if i allow myself to act in a way that seems to show "who i am" (in sarcastic quotes, really means "who i think i am" but whatever), i panic and oftentimes will leave the situation as entirely and abruptly as possible, and never return. tutors, outings.......
in attempting to exist semicomfortably in places outside of my bedroom, i have developed a need to get high or drunk before work, sometimes at work, when i get home, before and during socializing, to sleep.... still maintaining a relatively high level of functioning.
it's hard. i can't get help for avpd without addressing the substance issues, but if i hadn't developed those substance issues, i wouldn't be able to leave the house for a psych appointment without becoming suicidal at the prospect of even being perceived by another person.
i'll have to revisit this video later on... it's a bit close to home at the moment, i keep shutting down mentally at it. that's nothing to do with the video itself, or your (as usual) wonderful presentation of facts and multiple perspectives, obviously....
have a good night, dr grande. thanks again
the third paragraph hits SO close to home. whenever i read up on AVPD, i dont quite identify with the characteristic of being avoidant of general social interactions in school/work. i think i also maintain a rather high level of social functioning (i do think people generally think im pretty “normal” and decent at socialising as well) but especially if i get closer to people, i start to get more and more fearful and anxious of interacting with them and have a tendency to avoid interacting with them especially one on one although i actually do want to talk to them (i mean.. of course since theyre my good friends).
im not sure why i act like that but i guess its because since my friends and i are in a good place in our relationship, i so desperately want to avoid the risk of the interaction taking a bad turn (eg awkward) which would end up making me feel ashamed and feeling like im inherently socially inept. i dont like to feel this way about myself and be reminded of ug so i just want to avoid it completely in the midst of uncertainty. and also i feel like every social interaction i have is somewhat like a ‘test’ i have to make it through rather than something that im actually enjoying. all i feel after having a social interaction that isnt awkward or anything is that its a ‘success’ and a sense relief. in my mind, a failed interaction is something i have to work hard to avoid and i feel like im always on the verge of ruining a relationship as social interactions increase.
ive never seen someone talked about this before and wondered if i actually have avpd. im still learning more about it because i just heard about this disorder just yesterday (this disorder is really not well known!!!!) and have been identifying with it quite alot, i suspect that i do have avpd (although i dont want to self diagnose).
@marqy Jr i'm actually doing alright at the moment, all things considered... how are you?
i'd be more than happy to exchange contact info with you, it's good to know other people are in the same boat. life is hard enough without this extra weight
At 51 years of age I have to admit I have never even heard of this, but the description fits me to a T. I never take my vacation even though I am salaried and can’t sell my vacation time. I just feel like my hard work is the only thing that keeps me from getting fired. The impact of this disorder is great and my fear of failure is all consuming.
I just came upon this video and the symptoms fit me like a glove. For years I've had this job requiring minimal social interaction but also low income.
Hey Dr. Grande, thank you for this video. I'm 99 percent sure I have this personality disorder. It has been very limiting to say the least and it's hard to find anyone who would understand. Diagnosis & treatment seems like a toss up, but I'm pretty tired of feeling this way all the time. I wish I could just be normal and not stuck in this self prison. Sorry for being so grim but these aren't easy topics to discuss. I won't stop trying to make an impact on this world even if this disorder limits me.
much love 💖
I don't know what the heck I am, all I know is I'm 23 still a virgin and it's so hard for me to make any type of relationship. It's like I can't relate to anyone, feel like a freaking alien. I also think about deep shit always.
Take the big 5 personality trait test. That will give you insight into your personality and where you need work. Using this test it's then easier to speculate how your upbringing and experiences shaped you.
Applying these broad based personality disorders to yourself is quite pointless imho.
It's pretty simple to see what your pitfalls might be and then work on baby steps to improve yourself.
For instance, people low in openness don't need to do drastic things at first. Literally forcing themselves to try new foods and wear a different piece of clothing gets everything rolling.
@@thunderpooch I definitely understand,! Thanks
@@Dev-vm9gi Frankly, too many people are being asigned and diagnosed with personality disorders. These disorder classifications are only useful to define clusters of similar traits possessed by people who are experiencing severe dysfunction. 1 to 2% probably deserve such labels, not 10 to 30 percent of the population like many would like you to believe or tend to imply.
Being a virgin at 23 doesn't mean you're sick or alien, lol. You probably experience a greater propensity for depression and anxiety than most people do. It could be upbringing or biological factors. But I suspect you're most likely 100% normal! Only Hitler types, sociopaths, and people so crazy they think they're King Louis the 14th of France need the exotic labels found within the DSM.
Struggles with anxiety and/or depression is a sufficient label for most. Boring but true.
Honestly, just about every main personality disorder applies to me when I ask myself the questions listed in the DSM, and I suspect just about everyone else who struggles with depression and/or anxiety does so as well. Sometimes I avoid, sometimes I'm a narcissist, sometimes I'm a covert narcissist, sometimes I'm borderline, and sometimes I feel absolutely inferior.
These disorders tend to pathologize the mere existence of being a biological lifeform, where we're all trying our best to navigate life and cope.
The 5 factor model really only has one negative trait: neuroticism. It lumps all the dysfunction mainly into this term. Isn't that nice? It is. Depression, anxiety, and the DSM personality disorders can all be thought of as "neurotic."
But openness, conscientiousness, extraversion, and agreeableness can all be positive given the proper context. And they can all be negative given another context. The key is knowing your makeup of these to inform yourself how it could affect your level of neuroticism. Being low in openness and agreeableness can fuel someone's anxiety. So they should attempt to eat new foods and also attempt to let someone else make plans or set rules without launching into a cynical rant. Before you know it, they're more relaxed and happy and getting laid, haha. Or achieving whatever their goal is.
@@thunderpooch I think my situation is bizarre man, I really do. I don't even know how to describe it, but I do wanna get away from my family and everyone I know.
@@Dev-vm9gi Most everyone does unless they're Star Spangled awesome and often told so by society. Then they usually like being in the public arena because they think they're a gift to all of humanity.
Most people feel put upon to one degree or another by others and society, and like to hide away from time to time.
Comment 642: 33,507 views, 1.8K likes, 20 non likes.
Dr. Grande always speaks with compassion in his voice, that’s what I like. 😅😀👋
It really is humbling how exceptional Dr Grande is at the explanation of mental health topics. I’m so grateful for it.
We are lonely loners. I feel safe among people whom I trust. I struggle with some people trying to dominate me, especially men. I may not be as avoidant as I thought. I am in sales and handle rejection far better than I used to. I took a huge risk and moved 2,000 miles away from my impoverished hometown. I have a master’s degree. If I feel safe, I converse and am a good listener. I am much more forgiving of my mistakes and others’ mistakes, too. I want quality relationships where I don’t feel pressured into sexual intimacy. I have found individuals with high emotional intelligence are the ones whom I enjoy the most. I can feel very deep joy. I appreciate those who appreciate my uniqueness. Thank you. Good video.
Your sharing is an important part of my self-discovery and treatment. Thanks
It's good to know what I have with full scores on the criteria.
I seek for closer relationship while being feared of so much things passively in a way I can't really explain. I always criticise myself, my thoughts, my emotions without being able to stop it most of the time.
And yeah, it does not seem like a serious concern (for my case). Even I think I can live on this world with AVPD but I will just feel incapable of being happy as much as others somehow. If I were telling my parents/relatives they would think I over thought because AVPD's symptoms sound so typical and I wouldn't be able to explain it good enough.
Being informed that my behaviour could be improve is a good news. On the other had, it gave me a wave of sadness when hearing that the major cause is genetic and childhood and also that the treatment will improve my life but probably still won't let me feel emotions and understand myself/others like the way I see others do and I want that so much.
that is really weird. My mom had paranoid schizophrenia and I am pretty sure that the AVPD pretty much describes me. It was really interesting as to those two being related.
Never knew there was a name for my “issue” but at 64 I know now! At this age I can get away with it - I just say no, I don’t want to but when I was younger my life was a battle. I discovered alcohol and that got me through social settings. Was diagnosed with depression 25 years ago.
As an adolescent one of the labels put on me was schizoid. I spent 13-17 split between street kid and in patient duel diagnosis institutions and group homes. 30 years later, looking back and reflecting things have become more clear and videos like this have helped me. My primary issue that impacts my life is BPD that evolved from impulsive/ self destructive to discouraged style. There is clear comorbidity with CPSD and AVPD traits. I cut off all friends and romantic relationships for the past 17 years, recently I have found a small network of people that have helped me start to recover. I do not have the financial resources for professional help, I am trying to implement a self help plan based off DBT/ CBT and 12 step programs. My closest friend regularly points of my growth and change of thinking and patterns. I have a long way to go, will likely never be "normal", but have hit a point where I feel there is hope that there is hope for me. Thank you for this video, it helped clarify something that has bothered me for a long time, schizoid label did not make sense to me.
I don't know how to work this correctly, but thank you so much for pointing out the difference between how someone's behavior impacts our society versus how their internal experience impacts their personal functioning and well-being, and how that impacts access to treatment. I can't express how important it is for us to understand our clients as individuals with internal experiences that are impacted by a multitude of factors. In the end, their experience is what matters the most, their health, their safety their overall well-being is what is most important in treatment. Oftentimes if you are someone who has dramatic behavior who is perceived as being arrogant or acting out, you are less likely to be seen as someone "worth" getting treatment. If you are someone who has symptoms that are less disruptive to our everyday lives, you are going to be less likely to get the treatment you need at all.
We need to learn, as mental health treatment professionals, to always look at the client's experience first, what they want, and empower them to reach the goals that they want to reach. Not focus on how it impacts us personally or society.
Context: I am a bachelor's level mental health worker. I work as an Employment Specialist utilizing the IPS model to assist clients in finding and maintaining employment.