What is Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder? | Comprehensive Review
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- Опубліковано 26 лис 2024
- This video answers the question: Can I provide a detailed review of Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD)?
I will cover the definition of OCPD as well as the history, etiology, personality characteristics, comorbidity, and treatment.
OCPD is a Cluster C Personality Disorder (Anxious, Fearful). It is in the same cluster as Avoidant Personality Disorder and Dependent Personality Disorder.
OCPD is characterized by perfectionism, rigidity, negative affectivity, interpersonal aggression, as well as the need to control other people.
4 or more of 8 symptoms are required for a diagnosis
1. preoccupation with details order rules lists organization and schedules
2. perfectionism that interferes with task completion
3. excessively devoted to work and productivity to the exclusion of friendships
4. overconscientious, scrupulous, and inflexible about matters of morality ethics or values
5. can't throw out worn-out objects
6. reluctant to delegate tasks, because they want things done exact way
7. has a miserly spending style toward both self and others
8. rigidity and stubbornness
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of mental disorders: DSM-5 (5th ed.). Washington, DC: Author.
Solomonov, N., Kuprian, N., Zilcha-Mano, S., Muran, J. C., & Barber, J. P. (2020). Comparing the interpersonal profiles of obsessive-compulsive personality disorder and avoidant personality disorder: Are there homogeneous profiles or interpersonal subtypes? Personality Disorders: Theory, Research, and Treatment. doi-org.mylibr...
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De Panfilis, C., Schito, G., Riccardi, S., Roscigno, F., & Marchesi, C. (2018). Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder and personality organization: Implications for psychosocial functioning. Clinical Neuropsychiatry: Journal of Treatment Evaluation, 15(4), 251-257.
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Sadri, S. K., McEvoy, P. M., Egan, S. J., Kane, R. T., Rees, C. S., & Anderson, R. A. (2017). The Relationship between Obsessive Compulsive Personality and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder Treatment Outcomes: Predictive Utility and Clinically Significant Change. Behavioural and Cognitive Psychotherapy, 45(05), 524-529. doi:10.1017/s1352465817000194
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I have 7 of the 8 symptoms. I was diagnosed 5 months ago, and ooooh man has it been an eye opener. I thought everyone was like this. My diagnosis and learning of my disability has improved my marriage. I can recognize my behaviors now.
Absolutely! I found out I have OCPD a few weeks ago and it has totally shifted my life. I agree with you about the improvement on interpersonal relationships. I no longer think of other people (who don't appreciate my OCPD and therefore think like me) as "opposition"; "the enemy". I now acknowledge my that strong reactions are in a very large part due to my OCPD brain and nothing to do with another personally attacking me and trying to make my life miserable. Example: just two days ago my father said something logically inconsistent, and instead of exploding into a rage-thinking he's disrespecting me, manipulating me 👈...this is speaking directly to your statement, "I thought everyone was like this." 👉 Yes! I believed EVERYONE also had a f@ck!ng high standard. I believed EVERYONE also spoke with coherent logic. I believed EVERYONE also lived with Precision as a life value. So that when others did not demonstrate the same, I became enraged.
So, I allowed myself to embody the emotion but did so with much deeper understanding and in a much more mature way. I didn't go on attack, neither did I dissociate from the moment, and afterwards I didn't feel bad about anything, in any way.
@@vted3787 I am hesitant that I am OCD or OCPD or both. It seems I have OCD + Pleasing OCPD. But I am not sure, because I don't have many general OCPD traits while I have some. I just started searching and I am new in this. Just started searching from yesterday. First I was suspect that I have an avoidant personality, then dependent personality but later figured out that they don't match at all. And finally I reached to OCD or OCPD. Any good information that can help I appreciate. Thank you.
How is the diagnostic done?
@@anafernandes7315 I got referred for a diagnosis before starting therapy and the therapist used a few written diagnostic questionnaires, then asked me to explain my answers with examples from my daily life, then she picked a few other questionnaires based on my answers. I guess the one that is relevant for the OCPD diagnosis is Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-5 Personality Disorders (SCID-5-PD in short).
Thank you for your comment. ❤What’s been most helpful for you in treatment or generally, from your own perspective?
My husband has this disorder. One reason they don’t go in for treatment is that they often feel perfectionism is a positive attribute.
Same with my father, sisters, friend, some prof. Wow, I have a lot of OCPD people around me. I think it's bc the society rewards or praises perfectionists.
That's weird as hell, I usually feel and frequently get told that my perfectionism is just a negative attitude because I can't be happy with anything as it is.
@@whifflingtit9240 as long as you're not on their face, people think perfectionism is good. Or maybe the ones who said it are perfectionists themselves. I was once complimented at how neat my hygiene kit was, etc.. things like that.
Personally i dont want it treated, I am still young but so far it has had more of a positive than negative impact in my life but if that changes maybe my mind will too.
@@ainlefoley7672 Well, PDs developed bc that's what helped those people as a child. But of course as you grow older and make new relationships, it becomes more and more toxic.
I have been fired 3 times in a row for my OCPD before realizing I was the one with the problem in trying to control things to be perfect or the way I wanted or thought they should be, I thought I was the best at my job and knew the right way to do everything…people hated working with me and thought I acted better than them. I had many interpersonal problems with coworkers and they did not like my communication style as I always questioned how they did things. I never hung out with anyone outside of work bc I didn’t usually get along well enough…it’s caused so much distress as now it is very difficult to get a good job that I like since I have limited options…. I wish I had seeked help sooner. I also was a pot addict and depressed and that caused some performance and tardiness issues as well. Because of losing my jobs I began having extreme anxiety and panic attacks. Im sober now and I am in therapy but I still have the obsessive thoughts and try to be more aware and not act on them as much as I did before
Why do the obsessive thoughts plus experiences feel like to you?!
Ketamine therapy helped me tremendously. I suffered from OCPD and some other things which I do not want to go into here. But ketamine therapy set in motion fundamental changes in the way I thought, changes which over time resolved several serious issues, one of which was OCPD. I would highly recommend it to anyone (except, of course, those for whom it is contraindicated).
This has to be the most well put video about O.C.P.D.
Most people focus on what they feel towards the persons disorder whilst you focused on the disorder as it is.
My dad has this disorder. He convinced everybody around that he was a perfect dad. My world collapsed when I finally realized how he had negatively impacted on my emotional well-being and perception of the world. Any one with similar experience?
I had a similar experience. My mom has ocpd and was (still is) known as the most "successful" mom in our community. She homeschooled me and my four siblings and all of us have gone on to have extremely successful careers (four engineers and a doctor). However I still have a challenging relationship with her because of the extremeness of my upbringing and what I saw behind closed doors that negatively affected my younger siblings. She certainly did a lot of things right, but I live in fear that I've inherited this illness and will let it ruin my relationship with my own children.
Yes!!!!!!! My father is horrendous with his OCD and it’s definitely inherited and his negative toxicity has done tremendous damage to my life
@@Not-the-usual-BS Why would you allow your father to invade your adult life now? With your statement it eems like you have some rage going on.
@@MichaelDHockenberry because I currently live in his house due to my financial situation! A lot of abuse has been done and it’s a complex situation so if I have rage that’s unfortunately a result of what I’ve endured I don’t expect you or anyone for that matter to try to see where I’m coming from ..
dads are dangerous to their children, especially girls, if they are anything but loving and caring...I am so sorry you experienced this...know that you are you...and nothing to do with him...I wish you well.
This was so interesting. My husband has all the traits of OCPD. It seems to have gotten worse over time and overlaps with OCD. It is so difficult living with a person with this disorder. He thinks everyone else is the problem and often uses the phrase “ we are out of order”
I had ex sister inlaw with OCPD. She drove her family to the point they longer want anything to do with her. She wasn't able to find a man to marry her nor to keep a man until 5 years ago she got married at the age of 52. And he also has OCPD.
Wow. Thanks for sharing. It makes me reflect on my own OCPD and behavior. My phrasing of choice is "Be normal!' And I agree. If left unaddressed (I believe for myself just being conscious & aware of it now helps me manage it a great great deal), it can get worse and worse. Similar to the reply @Glow left, the social circle becomes smaller, and smaller...and smaller...and smaller, to a point where a person can not even relate to people other than only the ones in the same boat. I'm personally not there (yet? 😳 yikes, to think of it that way), but my social circle is basically non existent because my perception of everyone is colored with a loss of respect and even disdain...all simply because they don't live the way I think they should be living (which is, of course, like me. "I have the right way!" "I have the correct answer!" 🤦♂yikes)
My boss is like this. I've known him for 10 years and he has gotten worse. He's shunning me now because he can't control me.
My mother has OCPD, and I come back to this video often. It's given me a lot of insight about her behavior, she is very abusive and this video helped me feel better. When you're a kid growing up in a toxic home, it feels like you have to keep the abuse a secret, and you constantly wonder what's wrong with them. Having a doctor finally break down exactly what happened is cathartic, it feels like the secret is finally out.
Sorry to hear about your situation, I had similar situation except everyone in my childhood home had OCD and OCPD except me; indeed it is present in most extended family on both sides as well, so they were absolutely of no assistance either. Always been told I was sloppy and lazy but it turns out its because I don't have OCPD. Because I had no other of frame of reference, I had no idea that this strange OCPD world was not the normal situation in the world until I moved out and lived on my own. It's tough to be a child of OCPD parents for sure, I totally get where you are coming from.
Same!
My psychologist was really surprised as I often handed in my homework to her, if of course it was up to my standards, she said most clients never did that, what's the point of going if you're not taking it seriously. On the few occasions I didn't bring back those self evaluation sheets, was because I wasn't happy with my hand writing. I have both OCD and OCPD. I'm seeing this in many other Autists too.
I am a fan of Dr.Grande. I had a mental break down a few weeks ago and said to myself I need help before this gets any worse..... my therapist said/ broke down I have OCPD, i over work myself for every penny I can get. The explanation in this video is very reassuring. Thank you.
Finally it all makes sense! I strongly identify with OCPD, though all therapists and psychiatrist just told me until now I am just constantly burn out from work. I am currently taking sertraline and changed to Cognitive Therapy Behavior, but finally identifying what could be the cause is suh a relief. I am taking this info for the professionals to see if it is really the case. Thank you so much, Dr! Feels like this vídeo changed my life.
Are the side effects of sertraline serious? I am sometimes serious and sometimes not serious. I am not sure whether I should take the drug or not.
Learning to TAKE ONE DAY AT A TIME HELPED ME and my ENGINEER husband who was severe OCPD and his father was an AIRFORCE SGT. BUT MATT DID LIKE ATTENTION GETTING AFTER WORK around military bases.
@@richardjobs5635 didn't work for me. It made me stoned, but my OCPD felt nothing.
I don't see why you can't be both OCPD and constantly burned out from work? Problems with executive functioning caused by OCPD (which I am just now assuming is a thing cause it makes sense to me) would only exarcerbate your tiredness and your feeling burned out.
@@essennagerry indeed! Most people with OCPD(myself included) do work for no less than 12 hours in a row, six days a week. I used to work 16 hours before therapy with no days off, because I see it as lost days.
Who in hell wouldn't have a burnout under this scheme?
Thanks for explaining this. I wondered why one disorder was labeled OCD and one ocpd . Have a great day Dr. G
I used to have OCPD AND OCD. Because of the work I’ve done on myself and also AA, I no longer meet criteria for either. I still have some rigidity/task delegation issues but they’re in a pretty normal range now.
I am 100% sure though that most PDs can be overcome with years of effort + hardwork.
Good for you. I too have experienced the struggle. Twelve hears ago realized I had a serious problem. Put obsessions ahead of friendships, my marriage and family. Got cognitive therapy which was life saving. Learned to catch my slipping into OCD mode, learned how to deal with the pain and panic of not following through on compulsions, prayer and meditation work. Now have corrected most of the OCD and OCPD thinking, but slip up sometimes. Far happier now.
I came upon the OCPD condition by accident a few months ago. I began reading & it felt as if I'd finally been able to solve the mystery of my partner of a decade's increasingly bizarre personality /behaviour. He is in the 'co-morbidities' of the 'aggressive' OCPD as outlined here by Dr Grande & I have been trying to find a way to safely leave partner & relationship for at least a year. He has no real concept how abusive & controlling he is- not allowed myself & my kids' to eat any carbs for years on pain of him being abusive/hysterical. That is just a single part of his way of life. He now agrees' he has become iller & iller as he's got more stressed but even so, he truly doesn't understand that enforcing his rules/codes on diet & everything else, is appalling abuse.
I doubt he will ever understand that normal healthy people don't behave this way.
Thank you Dr Grande, for this short film that demonstrates the spectrum even within a PD.
Oh should add that there are 'red flags' with these people, but in my case after 4 years of dating, I only really saw behind the mask after I had moved in/given up my independence. Then things got really interesting! He showed his real self when comfortable (as I've read from other pieces on this) But I must add that while I am happy & relieved to leave this relationship imminently, I am very aware that I ignored red flags & allowed this person to take complete control of all aspects of my life, I didn't behave normally either. I will likely need CBT myself, to try & figure out how I allowed myself to reach such a position of a house-keeper servant slurred, screamed at daily for my failure to carry out tasks, despite my best efforts for years. Ironically it's likely that I will be having CBT to ensure I never allow myself to ignore warning signs again, while my partner will continue to cause mayhem to others' who only wanted to love & be loved.
@Paula Fay exactly. Didn't see it til years had gone by, behaviors/symptoms became increasingly worse resulting in divorce.
Dr. Grande ,NOW I see why this is in Cluster C , because it has similarities to my AVPD and also I'm age 55 Achievement Striving to cope makes total sense..story of my life..great short term successes,then, tremendous lengthy failure periods... GOD BLESS Dr. Grande! Your insight helps us understand our crazy lives! Thank You!
Your voice is very soothing. Thank you for your videos.
Yeah, he good be a good hypnotician to.
Early morning with Dr Grande, before coffee.
Desertphile okay/ maybe not before.... but thereafter.
A similar series on OCPD similar to Narcissism would be valuable. As arguably its the most prevalent personality disorder
Dr. grande said OCPD was the most prevalent disorder.
The most prevalent and the most undiagnosed of all too.
It's hard when the disorder is so undiagnosed.
I've been diagnosed with OCPD around eighteen years ago and guess what? I won't change and don't even bother about it. And yes, this is an OCPD feature due to its egosyntonic nature.
As always great video Dr.Grande!
This is the only channel talking about OCPD in a scientific maner.
Didnt know about the subtypes of OCPD. Very interesting topic. 🖒
Me! I was diagnosed five years ago. I have almost all the traits but had no idea OCPD existed.
We can live happy lives with this 😊 awareness is such a good thing but very difficult though.
As for myself, my relationship with God has helped me through living with this. My psych discharged me after 4.5 years of therapy and she told me she was proud of me. I do have compulsive episodes but not sooo often and live with all the traits.
Very detailed & illustrative analysis of 1 of the most common disorders. Your lingo is very accessible & not too rareified that it confuses. However, this is heavy duty subject matter & as always, your discussion Much Appreciated to this subscriber. TY Dr.G. !
I have both ocd and ocpd
Thankyou for this video
Always helpful to learn more :)
Knowledge is power
You just described my entire LIFE reality to perfection - THIS. IS. ME. Now the question is HOW can I cure my OCPD? How to replace my existing deeply rooted brain circuits (effectivelly & safely ofc)? I have MSc in BioPsychology, but I don't know much about applied psychotherapy. Thanks for your answer dr. Grande🙏
the fact you recognize this is 90%, now you need to unlearn brain circuits and form new ones...
@@scouthmk2312 HOW?
@@mikeskylark1594 lots of time and work. Recognize there is no cure, but symptoms can be effectively managed. Mindfulness, CBT, DBT, meds, time.
@@smashy_smasherton Mindfulness (no-go), CBT (ineffective), meds (no way), time (poor point), DBT (no time). I count on psychedelics THE MOST!
I have an emergency. I just had an operation and am staying with 2 relatives who have ocpd. My plane ticket cannot be used for 9 more days. Several times the doctor told me and also told one of my relatives that I am not supposed to bend below my waist for 7 days in order to let the place that was operated on to heal and not to be stretched too soon. My relative did not believe it when she heard it in the doctor’s office. She said that the printed instructions from the doctor’s office didn’t mean anything. This evening she complained to my other relative because, when I went to the doctor’s office today for the follow up appointment one day after surgery, I asked the doctor to write a general note saying that not bending down was one of my medical instructions.
Just now she said that SHE didn’t BELIEVE that I did that and that I must have done it to make HER look bad in front of the doctor. At that point I became Very upset. Her next move is probably going to be to say that they can’t have me come back to visit anymore because if I get upset the neighbors might hear. All of this happened because she exoected me Not to need Any recovery time at all after surgery yesterday with intravenous anesthesia and blood pressure cuff monitoring my blood pressure all the way through the surgery.
I have No One else to talk to about this. My only other relative has gone on a long family vacation/reunion. It would not be fair to her for me to contact her.
I have to go back to the doctor for a second follow up visit 6 days from now. & After that I can go home.
This is one of the clearest and best videos I've found on this subject. My symptoms fall into the more dominant/aggressive sub type and have a lot to do with disapproval of and anger around the behavior of others. My roommate falls into the submissive/pleasing sub type, and will bend over backwards to help others. He also has a lot of OCD and hoarding tendencies. I don't see myself as perfectionistic, maybe because I also have ADHD, which gets frustrated with taking too long to do something, and basically precludes me doing anything perfectly. I quit before I can get sucked in to those behaviors. The perfectionism piece is the thing I struggle to recognize.
I notice my OCPD symptoms are exacerbated when I’m tired which is all the time lol definitely glad I have the person pleasing subtype. Thank you for this video.
Absolutely. I find sleep in general the best way to reset OCD/OCPD and other anxiety-related behaviours.
@tobe170 I would describe it as regaining energy and strength to actively combat and respond to OCD thoughts. When you’re tired, your mental defences are low, and you have less ability to diffuse harmful or irrational thoughts. So the best thing you can do is get sleep to rebuild that defence
@tobe170 I’m not as familiar or aware of how OCPD operates in the mind. Being a personality disorder, I would imagine a person has less conscious awareness of how to recognize or control the behaviours. But I would also imagine that good sleep would help anyone have a better mood and perspective
Thank you. I've been waiting for this video. I certainly share some traits with OCPD.
Is it really a desire to control other people or a desire for perfection that treats people almost as objects within the environment?
Also, I am surprised that there's no mention of the comorbidity of ocpd and autism, which I read is 40%.
People are an aspect of your environment. They happen to also be people.
@@whifflingtit9240 duh
That was so interesting as I have a close one who I believe suffers with this disorder. It would be really helpful to hear more. Thanks Doctor!
I have OCPD and inattentive ADHD. depression and anxiety often comes when I stop medication.
100% on the achievement striving part- it’s the reason I’m still alive and have mostly overcome OCD/OCPD. Cool stuff to learn!
One of my Psychology professors told us that Jack Nicholson's character, in the film, "As Good As It Gets," has OCPD.
He definitely has both OCPD and OCD.
I obsess over order and perfection because I'm surrounded by people who, if left to their own devices, would plunge this world into chaos.
I’m shaking my head because I have never read anything more relatable.
A classic OCPD symptom. YOU are not the problem. Oh no. Only OTHERS are the problem. THEY "plunge the world into chaos." People with OCPD have no idea -- nor do they care -- the chaos, the stress, the alienation they cause to humanity. People with OCPD are an absolute SCOURGE to their family. I beg you to seek help TODAY.
Excuses excuses... FYI we all live in the same crazy world but we don’t all need to obsess over controlling things with order and perfectionism. Clue?
Oh my gosh this is my sister. For years I’ve told my family this. They know something is going on with her but this is it!
Best video I have seen on this topic! Thank you for mentioning the depression and anxiety which I have both and this will help in the answers and treatment plan.
Doc: you are wonderfully easy to understand; thank you so much. You are able to describe the science in a way that we get it ‘down here’.
Dr Grande is no non-sense, straight to the point when disseminating information
My relative definitely has nearly all these traits. He spends hours every day making colour coded spreadsheets of his finances. He is pretty miserly, especially with family. He doesn’t like to throw things away, he thinks everything will be useful. He has low trust of others and is a perfectionist when it comes to pieces of work, going without sleep to re do over and over again to get it perfect. He packs for a vacation two weeks in advance and lays his clothes out for a special occasion days in advance. He falls out with family, he thinks they all want his money. This all makes sense to me now, thank you
Based Grande uploads another interesting video! I appreciate what you and the SBSK channel are doing for mental health awareness.
Thanks so much, Todd. Really interesting. I only recently discovered OCPD is a big thing in my family and in myself as well and this really helps me understand things. The prevalence in strict parenting as a cause might be just a consequence of their own OCPD not being able to handle unpredictable kids doing stupid things, I suspect.
Agree with this. They have the need to control the kids. My father even controlled our cries and laughs. They're also very judgemental towards other parents who can't "discipline" their children. And would think that others will judge them too if we misbehaved.
@@minshubay6740 Do you know how he, himself, was raised by his parents? It's a vicious cycle, as with all PDs!
@@timefortee Well, from what I know, he also raised us the way his parents raised him. Or even worse bc I heard that his siblings fear him more than their parents. Like they shouldn't make a sound if he's asleep bc he'd be really angry if they woke him up with their noise.
He doesn't really talk to us unless it's important. So all I know is what our mother told us.
@@minshubay6740 It must have been no joke for you all, then! I hope you haven't gotten any PD as a result.
PS: Paranoid PD and NPD can make traumatising parents as well (it's those two I've observed mostly).
PPS: I havent been able to observe the OCPD-- religiousness link you have, in our culture it's actually doing the reverse (making otherwise strict men more gentle and compassionate).
@@timefortee Well, it's not really that bad I guess. We actually grew up thinking we had great childhood. My parents were good providers but were clueless about emotional support/needs. If I didn't study psychology (school and research on internet), I wouldn't have known the effect of what they did to us. Before, I also did the same to my nephews and nieces. But I realized controlling kids actually fires back. Most become rebellious instead. The more effective approach is to still be strict but explain to children what they did wrong and the consequences with their future in mind and not because their attitude irritates you. You'll see that they'd say sorry because they actually feel remorseful because you made them understand. Instead of just telling them "do this, not that because that's what I said to do".
Also we're not talking about strict people here. OCPDs are not just strict people. They're controlling. (Well, eventhough my father was controlling he's still a good person. I'm not demonizing him.) I connected it to religious people bc there are a lot of religious people from where I am and I observed OCPD traits from most of them. It's because religion tells us what's wrong and what's right. Or maybe it's the other way around. Maybe because religion has almost clear picture of right and wrong, that's why it attracts people with OCPD or someone with the traits. Just like how a lot of OCPD are in veganism. That's why veganism has a not-so-good reputation for most people because they thought all vegans are gonna attack them for being morally wrong.
Personality distoders are ego syntonic and hence more difficult to treat . Thank u Doctor for this insight!!
Fascinating. So many people are unable to make a distinction. It has demystified the two for me. Your videos are so easy to follow, informative and absorbing. Love your delivery and depth of knowledge.
I knew I could count of Dr. Grande for the best review of this.
I'm self diagnosed with this. And ADHD. So I'm hyperactive, cannot sit down, and clean my kitchen and bathroom daily. I cannot adhere to the ways others do their jobs, and always try to tell them how to do their job more efficiently. I also have been called "unfeeling" by family my whole life, find it difficult to have friends, and only feel calm once my entire space is orderly and clean. It's a way of feeling in control when the world is so out of control our climate is being ruined. My only real symptoms are high anxiety when things are not perfect, everything is on lists, i re-write emails over and over, especially when they go to managers or higher ups, and am critical of others.... and I end up cleaning the bathroom at my job when I have a masters degree even tho I need to do other things. I go out of my way to get gas at 5 cents cheaper, and always only buy things on sale. Although I find throwing out old objects (not things that mean something to me,) very easy and actually satisfying. And I def have anger issues. Very bad anger issues. I used to think this was because my mother would wake me up to clean up if I ate late at night and left a mess, screaming at me, but now I just think it's the better way to live. My way. Everyone else is a mess. Not me ;)
So glad I watched this video. I feel like I understand why my partner is the way he is, even though he’s never been diagnosed with OCPD I can clearly see the traits. And he has already been diagnosed with OCD. He doesn’t realize how much his behavior affects me and my mental health, but I try to be very understanding that he has a mental disorder and he can’t help that.
I once knew a girl with this disorder. She pulled her hair out in large strands. She said that the doctor said it was a "brain hiccup". (Whatever that means). She couldn't stop herself. She also carried around a recipe box to keep records of words that she heard throughout the day. Quite bizarre. And yes, she was unpleasant to deal with.
Thank you, Dr Grande! 🌹👍
@@kevinhornbuckle Maybe so! I remember asking her to put something on her fingers to remind her and she responded that she'd just get it off, do anything to pull at her hair. She said there was no pain.
Trichotillomania.
When a person has mild traits of OCD and are being gaslighted, it seems the traits get worse. You are very helpful. I had 52 patients every day (except every other week end) who never got worse. I did it for 2 years. So I guess I’m not OCPD. All 52 patients who could speak said they liked me. OCD guilty as charged 🤣
This is a remarkable video that covers overall of OCPD. Just so well organized and explained.
It's interesting to hear that there are different subtypes to this personality disorder, I didn't knew that. Often you see OCPD represented by someone who seems to be not aware at all of their toxic behavior traits and therefore acts with a lot of confidence. Although I could pretty much relate to all of the symptoms of OCPD I was never able to relate to people I saw on the internet, who have been diagnosed with it.
I'm more suprised OCPD isn't negatively correlated with openness to experience. I had expected it to because of the rigidity aspect of OCPD. Great video Dr. Grande.
Very intressting video! I like when you dig deeper into the subject as you did here. Thanks for taking the time to put out so much great content.
This was very revealing; especially how prevalent this disorder is.
This description reminds me of the Patrick Bergin character in the film Sleeping With The Enemy. His character was obsessed with controlling every aspect of his life including his wife, played by Julia Roberts.
Yep- that's him. OCPD in extremis. Some traits are shared by my partner although not quite as frequently violent as the film character.
I thought of that film too
Every time I click one of Dr Grandes videos I cross my fingers to not see myself with the disorders. 😅
I always find some of it in myself.
Why though? What if you are struggling in your personal life and then one of his videos leads you on the path to recovery?
Lmaooo same psych students are the worst and med students im a psych student and pre med. you have to stop yourself from self diagnosing😂
We also should be mindful that people change over time as well- I used to meet criteria for OCPD- and was diagnosed with OCD @ 11. I no longer meet criteria for either- granted I almost died from addiction in the process, but my work has definitely paid off and I know at least for myself that PDs can be overcome.
@@jasmineg9738 sooooo true! My undergrad degree is in psychology and my professors warned about self-diagnosing for psych and med students😂. You're spot on.
There is a resemblance between OCD and borderline.
The intrusive thoughts and impulsivity.
But in borderline treatment, we have to go back and find out the core content.
In OCD it is just chemical imbalance in the brain.
But after we’ve delt with the route cause of the intrusive thought in BPD,
like anger or jealousy we can only go back to the CBT technique in managing impulsiveness.
Observe-Name the feeling/ thought-don’t react- ground yourself-disengage and distract yourself.
Until the urge subsides.
In BPD try to come up with another explanation to the event that triggered you.
It is the same thing!
Did I get that right, dr. Grande?!
This video is about OCPD, *not* OCD. Two very different disorders..
Ma M
Thanks for mentioning
I had just finished an audiobook about OCD.
Might have mixed up things.
Thank you Dr Grande, that was a very informative video. I have Tourettes Syndrome with ADD and OCD. Omg, I'm a mess sometimes. Can you please do a video on Tourettes and why OCD or ADD or both like to accompany it? I'm struggling now trying to heal after a 2 year long horrible relationship with a venerable narcissist. I told her things about myself and my life dealing with my condition I've never told anyone ever and man, she tore me down mentally. I've never experienced anything like that and especially from a female that I actually thought I could truly trust. You've really helped me learn and understand about the Cluster B personalty disorders. Your professionalism and knowledge is greatly appreciated!!!
Brilliant analysis!
Couple of things that really stood out for me was the divergence between OCPD/conscientiousness and OCPD comorbidity with Parkinson’s disease- 40% of people with Parkinson’s disease have OCPD!
Fantastic analysis as always Dr. Grande:)
Sincere appreciation for all you do to offer us these videos. You mentioned that further research is needed to elaborate on theories of origin (nature/nurture), in my family both are concurrent. My paternal grandfather was an engineer, and displayed OCPD with dominant rage characteristics (among other disorders), his father died of Parkinson's disease. My maternal grandmother was a college librarian, presenting more of the people-pleasing OCPD traits. She was raised with rigid formality, but chose to focus on developing emotional warmth. My mother is a retired commander, and teacher, presenting dominant rage traits. She seeks leisure activities that involve control, organizing, and meetings; she is unwilling to demonstrate emotions that she perceives as reducing her control. My mother makes lists for everything, she changes rules, and increases the complexity of proceedural tasks (and was written up at work for not effectively delegating tasks). I notice my mother's expectations are so inflexible that she will fail to complete things a third of the time (I do this as well). I am an artist, the need to create what I imagine is a guiding drive; this is also a fault when a task, or assigned project must be completed within a time limit. My mind struggles with discerning how to achieve the core principles and not what I see as the end goal (college assignments, business work). I have the people-pleasing traits, anger frightens and disgusts me, having grown up with an angry parent. I recall my grandmother was excessively anxious and
overtly worried; my mother raised me with the same behavior. Fiscal miserliness is less of an issue in my family history, but there is the learned trait of trying to conserve one thing when a different approach is needed (a redirection of focus as another coping mechanism - a pyrrhic victory). You noted major depressive disorder as a possible comorbidity,I have this, and disorganized fearful-avoidant attachment. There are certain employment roles in which I've had to develop extraversion, though I prefer introversion (it can be exhausting in an extroverted role). I am fortunate in having friends who taught me the joy of embracing spontaneity (allowing growth, acceptance, and opportunity). I realize that my behavioral work is a journey. Thank you, again, for sharing your knowledge with us. :)
I used to take my temperature at least 20 times a day although I never kept count. Finally I told myself to stop and that it was ridiculous, and it was kinda hard to do at first. It was about 20 years ago in my 20s. I knew I was OCD but not sure why. Interesting subject. Thanx!
OCD and OCPD are different
Wow.. just diagnosed with this today🤔 Extremely accurate
This video has really opened my eyes. I identify with almost everything you said about OCPD. I was diagnosed w ADHD OCD PTSD and ASD. Do you know how common ASD and OCPD are comorbi? I identify with ASD because of my special interests (I always referred to as obsessions before my diagnosis) sensory issues (I identify with somatic symptom disorder too) and the meltdowns, nonverbal times I have..but I still question it sometimes. I also don't know if this is me being a hypochondriac or cptsd from childhood neglect from a vulnerable cover narcissistic mom. Or all of the above:D Thank you for sharing!
I had an employee with this disorder. Had to release her. It was a nightmare. A solid employee if there was no change. If anything changed, regardless of what it was or the reason for it, she would go into overdrive to fight it, thwart it, sabotage it or just poison the well with other employees. Control freak!
I actually just recently realised I highly likely have OCD. Simply to know this helps me to deal with my thoughts. Whenever I find myself trapped in thoughts i say to myself „wait a minute, OCD kicks in again“ and it actually fades away most of the times. I would love to see a therapist to give my conditions a name, because i think that would really help, simply knowing „who i am“, but i am functioning and would have to pay for myself.
U can get super cheap or free therapy from graduate students at any university. They are great. Check it out. U deserve healing! :)
First Last thank you :)
Uh oh... I recently became aware of what I thought was only OCD... but after watching this video several times and even taking notes, it looks like I have to work on OCPD, too. And yes, I have comorbidity with major depressive disorder with frequent relapses. And an eating disorder 😩
While I’m not thrilled with this knowledge I do understand that knowledge is power and that I can’t solve a problem that I won’t face. So that’s the good news. Now I know where the work needs to start.
One thing is perplexing: Dr Grande states that there are two types of OCPD, aggressive and submissive. I seem to have both! I have already done a lot of work on my submissive characteristics so now I’m leaning toward aggression, notably anger. I do tend to be argumentative but very friendly too, a submissive trait. (I wish I could talk with Dr Grande in person.)
I’m researching a CBT therapist.
Thanks for your help! And God bless‼️😇❤️
A fantastic analysis Dr Grande! Love the T shirt designs too
Very educational and informative. My ex sister inlaw has OCPD. Got to the point where her family wants nothing to do with her. I don't speak to her either can't deal with that.
I had a friend who I believed had OCOD . Her inability to complete tasks, in particular to organise items which she would not throw away took over her life and impacted on her relationships, including quality time with her children. She could not even give away items which were broken and had no sentimental value. She even hired storage to ‘organise’ her items. I wondered if keeping items, records and lists was a way to prove to herself that she had a life. Or perhaps it was a way to avoid dealing with the present. She was a nice person but was exhausting as she was unhappy but would not let anyone help her.
Most people with the “hoarding” symptoms of this disorder are unable to give a logical answer as to why they like to keep and hoard things that the majority would have thrown out long ago but I believe it’s more of a comfort thing as any change can be hard on them
I do this too. It is because we think it just may be useful someday even though deep down we know, it won't.
After learning of this disorder, I was able to quickly identify both my father in law and my husband with this disorder. I always knew some of their behaviors were odd but never imagined that there's a name for it. My FIL also had Parkinson's disease.
Quick comment here ....
I’m conducting some informal research into the Five Factor Model as it pertains to adult women with late-diagnosed Autism, and of the 30 people I’ve analyzed so far, their overall OCEAN scores are as follows:
O = 58.67%
C = 44.03%
E = 42.37%
A = 53.13%
N = 26.73%
These are all adults with a clinical valid diagnosis of ASD.
Many of the criteria you mention from the DSM on OCPD aligns very closely to those we see in women with ASD, and as I commented on the Case Study with Brenda, her symptoms is notably similar to the symptoms I see in late-diagnosed women with ASD - I think someone needs to do a study on what the key differentials are between OCPD (Personality) vs. ASD (Neurodevelopmental) ...
This is by no means anything evidence based, just wanted to let this be known out there so therapists can be aware of this seemingly overlapping correlations of symptoms (much like ADHD vs. Borderline or ASD vs. Borderline).
I recently came to terms with being symptomatic of OCD. When I was pregnant I had Perinatal OCD, the intrusive thoughts and anxiety was utterly distressing. Thankfully I have a therapist and supportive husband who helped me through the rough patches. The medical staff I was seeing for care also took my concerns seriously, especially since it was a high risk pregnancy which made the whole experience much more stressful. 2 days after her birth two psychiatrists came in to see me and recheck on me, one said my symptoms sounded similar to OCPD.
I’m not a perfectionist, but I certainly have from a young age being routine and detail oriented, but certainly hyperfocused. Definitely wanting things done a certain way, and rigidly adhering to a schedule.
Anyways, it doesn’t interfere with my life at least 😅
The more of your videos I watch, the more comments I read and in my opinion the more subs, and views I 've noted gives me more hope that the stigma surrounding mental health is truly lessening. The other part is damn no wonder it's tough to get a spot on diagnosis for a brain sickness aka mental illness. ( My counselor uses brain sickness as a term. She finds it is easier for patients families to accept. Especially with parents of relatively Young pediatric patients ! Also why medication can truly be trial and error. I could be wrong with that aspect, I had experience with a young daughter with a genetic illness that started exhibiting symptoms of OCD behaviors and a son with selective mutism and depression. I felt as bad for the child psychiatrist and pediatric psychologist trying to hit on the correct meds and individual styles for both of our two youngest children. With the added complication that our youngest had gone through the pain, the multiple hip surgeries. And later both knees. Followed by years of bilateral full lower body braces from hip to knee. So was it truly OCD or side effects of pain meds and trauma. God bless both their Drs they got our son talking again and our daughter walking and both are in college and doing quite well. ! Both still require meds and counseling. Meds they are both religious with. Counseling is sporadic due to the cost! Thank you Dr. Grande for these videos. You've helped me in immeasurable ways. I surmise I'm in good company. The Lord is working through you. In my opinion.
Chef Betsy - God bless you. It sounds like you are fatigued often. I’m sorry.
@@qiuwbr091 thank you. Yes sometimes it's been taxing! I was blessed and still am to have a wonderful family of origin as well as the family I've built together with my husband!
The combination of OCPD and OCD is literally me, i am the second type that has low self-esteem, and it's ha d for me to have friends, also my mom is very strict and has some OCD traits, the non-functioning thing is very true. My biggest two miseries are social relationships and doing my study effectively.
I wish there was a checklist for dealing with people, like what to say , how to react, etc
I feel sad for myself Although i started psychiatric therapy 3 years ago and thank God my OCD symptoms improved greatly, i still feel sad about my life.
And father?
Don't feel sad. Don't give up.
There is a lot of overlap in symptoms and signs between OCPD and High functioning Autism. It is frustrating because I have most of the overlapping symptoms, some of the exclusively Autism signs and some of the exclusively OCPD signs. And while CBT is advantageous for OCPD, it doesn't work for Individuals with autism. Neither my psychiatrist nor my psychologist thinks I should worry about the difference between the two, which is a terrible thing to say to someone who needs a structured solution and who easily gets obsessed. Hence my 4 hour youtube dive into all videos that explain OCPD
Super interesting video! As with other personality disorders, can this one occur on a spectrum?
Of course.
Could you please do a video on the children of OCPD parents???
Great review! Very useful and clarifying information . Thanks a lot.
I am convinced my husband has OCPD and have been since I stumbled across this term 10 years ago. I have been with him 22 years and it is certainly not getting any better. An example of his miserly ways is that he may have a shopping cart handed off to him by another customer and instead of paying it forward, he will happily pocket the 25 cents. Along with that he is absolutely controlling and always and unequivocally is always right. As a matter of fact, he will say that.....he has done his "research" and whatever he says is truth.....not opinion and he is always right! It probably comes as no surprise, but he is very difficult to live with. I've tried to kick him out but he won't leave. I've tried to encourage him to go to counseling with me and he refuses. He's not all bad but....... I don't know how much longer I can take it!
i only have a little bit of this, but it starts getting more and more. i dont know what helps
Thank you so so much, you don't know how helpful this was for me. Really appreciated
When someone close got the ocpd diagnosis it made total sense to me and explained so much of there behavior problem run with that the diagnosis goes against that persons belief that it just mumbo-jumbo
Well, now I can finally understand my father, little brother, and me! I used to think that I have characteristics of OCPD but I thought my father is more likely to be narcissistic tell I realized now the connection between the two disorders.. so, thank you!
yeah, also about the genetic aspect of the disorder.. in my case I expect it played a noticeable role because we were raised mostly by my mom where dad works and spends days far from home..
I used to think my mother was narcissistic but she changed a lot after her grandchildren were born and I understand NPD is incurable. Now I think she had ocpd - can this lessen/ go away over time?
That is a myth, I have an NPD person in my life who is mostly cured, but it only happened over decades and because the person's faith in God grew stronger.
when they’re a narcissist that very likely has ocpd and gad. it’s a nightmare.
This has been incredibly interesting! Thank you, Dr. Grande.
Hi Dr Grande!
Have you watched 'An interview with a Sociopath (Antisocial Personality Disorder and Bipolar) by special books by special kids?. I watched it today and wow is it intense. Would be fascinating to see your analysis on it. Cheers
I have ocpd. I didn't know about the pleasing subtype, I can definitely identify with it.
Found it finally everything got close to matching me but this is spot on.
Great vid!
Psychology rocks! 💯
This explanation was quite good, definitely going to use the information to come up with a strategy to work on it
Very Informative and concise looking at all aspects of OCPD! 😍
Unfortunately..most people can't obtain PERFECTIONISM...Because by the time you reach a person's desired level of TASK PERFECTIONISM..they RAISE the BAR..
ACHIEVEMENT STRIVING..GIVES BETTER GOALS & OUTCOMES..TO BE THE BEST YOU CAN BE..WITHOUT THE PRESSURE WORRY & STRESS OF PERFECTIONISM! 😊
Perfectionism also has a FEAR of FAILURE..Which causes some tasks not to be tried or completed!
Could Perfectionism be a trait of society norms..how children were viewed to be..according to generation..for Baby Boomers and their Parents/Grandparents (strictness)? Parenting Styles seem to change and are characterized by Newer Ideas per generation! 😍
Wonder how parenting styles change Outcomes of Personality or lead to Personality Disorders?
Would like to see more about Parenting Styles affecting personality or personality disorders!
4 parenting styles😍
Dr Grande, do the symptoms of OCPD become less pronounced or severe with age?
I am not a psychiatrist but i was told with more complexities(which happens when we age and make out own family) comes more scenarios tht can exacerbate OCPD.
My mother has OCPD and gets worse over time. They seem to collect obsessions like stamp collectors.
This is my stepdad to a tee, can they also have Asperger’s symptoms as well? He seems to have these traits too which is confusing in trying to understand him. Thank you Dr. Grande always helpful and informative.
Thank you!!! Amazing video as usual :) Is there a correlation with psychopathy in women? Or do psychopathic women hide behind the ocpd label?
Not at all. Psychopaths cannot stand moralisms and OCPD is all about righteousness by any cost necessary.
Both are opposites and cannot be comorbid.
I'm really starting to question whether OCPD is even a personality disorder at all. There are so many neurological traits that seem to be connected to it. I've read literature that suggests that the same gene associated with OCPD (DRD3), is also associated with Parkinson's Disease, an ineffective startle response gate, and inability to use Wellbutrin for smoking cessation. What do any of those things have to do with personality? They all seem to be physiological in nature. I suppose you could say that personality is also physiological in nature. The questions that follow are: Is the term "personality disorder" even meaningful? How can you possibly change an obsessive-compulsive personality if it's hardwired into a person's physiology? Is this a question of mind over matter? Is successful mental health therapy capable of causing someone's physiology to change?
Can you share what you read? Would like to read it too
Also, i think it is not the personality we are trying to change but the excessive traits of it.
@@kalpanaruhela I don't know if I ever saved the link to the article. I believe it was on the nih or jstor database. I'll try to see if I can find it again.
@@markstahl1464 okay no issues. Thanks
I actually have both 😬 I am a super detailed cleaner, as well as a need to have everything in place with every detail noticed. War on the brain the entire day!! I have never heard of OCPD until my therapist diagnosed me with it.
What motivated you toward treatment?
@@tonidesousa8193 My mental illnesses spiraled out of control. My life was a mess. Had to seek help, and started talking to a therapist as part of treatment.
Thanks for the review doc!
Dr G, great video, I think I have this one, especially when I was younger. I wish you were my therapist. 😀
Thanks Dr Grande. At this point I’m wondering if any of us is ‘normal’ and if so what’s normal??
Technically you are normal when you have suspected let's say 4 PD and one major mental disorder and you don't reach the expected nummer of criteria in any of these. This would be "normal" in clinical terms = the majority of persons.
Have you done passive aggressives yet? I'll have to check your list.
The aggressive subtype of OCPD sounds a bit like Ebeneezer Scrooge 🤔
Hahaha. Yeah.
Thank you for covering this PD as you have in greater detail Mr Grande. It is, although highly prevalent, under researched I believe and has a much greater impact on the person whom has it than people seem to perceive (and of course the people around them, although that I think is more commonly accepted). I think this may likely be (or has a high probability of being) due to the disorder itself and the ways in which the person(s) processes things and therefore presents to others outwardly. They don’t want to appear not to be in control of themselves, so this hinders certain things and definitely can hinder getting help or wanting help (especially if not in the/a way they see fit). Insight is crucial.
Radically Open Dialectical Behaviour Therapy (RO-DBT), constructed by Thomas Lynch et al, is also another “treatment method” (in some parts of the world where it is accessible) for OCPD, as it is with other “over-controlled” personalities and conditions/disorders (anorexia nervosa, avoidant and Autistic Spectrum Condition etc).
However that is still fairly new and in it’s somewhat relatively early stages of practice and so actual evidence supporting that it “helps” is a tad limited (as with most things relating to over-control disorders that do not carry such a high mortality rate as AN).
You briefly touched on the point that OCPD and BPD can share some overlap/similarities and I think this is something that should be explored further and understood by more mental health professionals.
I have tried to share from my own research regarding how a person can possibly present like the other given certain situations - to mental healthcare professionals, and there has been a high degree of shutdown/disagreement without much real consideration or discussion.
I think it is possible to see that there is overlap in the presentation of differently written criteria from one to the other, even if the purpose behind behaviours comes from a different place/mentality/reasonings.
I have came to the realisation that many people simply cannot understand or accept via evidence and logic how an under-controlled and an over-controlled personality type can overlap 🤷♀️
There are still a lot of health professionals with what they think is an in-depth understanding of BPD (at times stereotypically so) - and not much deep knowledge on OCPD; so therefore how can they be so quick to shut suggestions to explore those possibilities, down.
The deeper you look and understand both PDs - overlaps can be there; the issue is differentiating the behaviours from the thought processes behind them and also the major/minor variables, as well as the context in which the behaviours present.
I think it is important to note there are many possible factors or behaviours which can/do often separate the two PD’s and these can either be overt or only really seen by scrutiny/under detailed analysis.
Realistically, if you only assess someone in one environment, and thus depending on the environment, there can be remarkable similarities between BPD and OCPD, basically though that is down to the assessor how they perceive and interpret the information before them, which to me is not a very holistic or thorough exploration of wether someone may potentially for one or the other, or have traits of both.
It is worrying to me we rely so heavily on peoples perception and interpretation to diagnose such things that can have such an impact on peoples lives, when even licensed psychiatrists or mental health professionals can have their own biases which may in turn affect the accuracy, or favour one diagnosis over the other. I wish there were ways to continuously (overtime) assess peoples biases who hold such pivotal role of responsibility, and to apply a tool which can assess thinking which may flag up as biased interpretations which are less evidence and educated based, and more personal.
I wish every person in healthcare had the ability to remain impartial but in some sense had less restrictions (financial etc) which affect how they can do their jobs (but regardless it is a business after all for some people ultimately).
I would be interested in hearing you cover the cross over with Autism Spectrum Disorder (although I appreciate this is a broad term and there can be, as with most things, varying different ways someone on the spectrum may present) and OCPD criteria/traits. As well as how collective Schizoid, Obsessive Compulsive and Avoidant PD traits and criteria could be “met” within a possible ASD diagnosis and maybe how you would possibly/potentially differentiate them? (other than the obvious ASD criteria that does not feature in any of the three aforementioned PDs i.e. sensory issues etc).
Very interesting! Thank you. Didn’t realize so many people have this. Must be a strong gene.
My dad definitely has OCD. Two of three of his kids (my brother and myself) have it. And of the grandkids I’d say 5 out of 7.
Everything was fine till closing my business in 2020. I was married to that salon! Busy 🐝. Now I find myself with more and more compulsive habits lol
I have a feeling you hacked into my pc and all your videos are based upon your analysis of what you've found 😄