The Strange Death of Journalism with Batya Ungar-Sargon
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- Опубліковано 22 лип 2024
- My guest today is Batya Ungar-Sargon. Batya is a deputy opinion news editor at Newsweek and a columnist at Compact magazine. Before that, she was the opinion editor of The Forward.
In this episode, we talk about tribalism and individualism. We talk about how journalism and media became woke. We talk about the shift from journalism being a working-class profession to a profession for elites and the consequences of that shift. We also talk about gender ideology and at the end, Batya turns the tables on me and asks me several interesting and probing questions about myself and about my audience.
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Chapters:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:02:07 Media Polarization And Profit Incentives
00:06:33 The Importance Of Autonomy In The Working Class And The Failure Of Liberal Elites To Understand It
00:07:57 Fox News And The Populist Point Of View
00:10:11 Fox News Takes A Populist Approach And Connects With The Median Voter
00:19:49 The Importance Of Accepting Differences In Religious Observance And Identifying With Multiple Nations
00:22:45 The Paradox Of Right-wing Working Class Voters In The Us.
00:29:54 The Shift In Journalism From Objectivity To Niche Targeting With Digital Media
00:33:41 Poaching From Upper Middle-class Millennial Outlets For Digital News Roles.
00:45:45 Populist Beliefs In Equality In Meritocracy
00:53:15 Encouraging Lesbian Girls To Transition To Become Men To Eliminate Homosexuality.
00:53:49 How The Left And Working-Class Americans View The Economy And The American Dream
00:59:40 Discussion On Meditation And Racial Identity
01:06:44 Overcoming Rejection: The Story Of A Book On American Unity
01:10:23 The Relationship Between Subscribers And Wokeness
01:13:27 Working-class Americans Reject Being Labeled Racist For Opposing Mass Immigration
01:20:20 The Financial Bargain Of Race-based Politics For The Ruling Class
01:23:04 Removal Of Confederate Flag From South Carolina Capitol By Activist
01:27:12 Decline In Popularity Of Television Shows And Movies
01:31:19 American Identity Transcends Ancestry According To Scholar
01:37:57 The Hypocrisy Of Arguing For Less Coverage On Trans Issues.
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![Woke Racism with John McWhorter [S2 Ep.40]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gT9qMq0faCQ/mqdefault.jpg)
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Thanks for watching my latest episode. Let me know your thoughts and opinions down below in a comment. If you like my content and want to support me, consider becoming a paying member of the Coleman Unfiltered Community here --> bit.ly/3B1GAlS
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I just discovered you Coleman. I like your interviews. I've always liked Battya. What a fantastic woman she is. This was a great interview. It only reinforces that the average American in 2023 is an ignoramus. Sad
LOVED this.... Probably my favorite interview with you to date. I am the daughter of the cofounder of Braver Angels. I'd say the number one hook for that organization is peoples innate curiosity about the other side. Like you Coleman, when Trump won I knew I had to listen more. I've always had conservative friends in my life but I took it to a new level. The day he won I only listen to or read conservative news until his inauguration. It was a really fascinating window and I agree with you Fox actually has way more interesting debates because they bring on two different people more than say MSNBC. I have always been a moderate liberal and tend to go more annoyed with my own side because I feel like we should know better, think better, or be less hypocritical.
I think shes into you dude lol!
As South African I'm very wary of the whole woke movement in my own country, thanks to your sharp content. I draw a lot of strength from you, John Mcwhorter, and Glenn Loury.
Same! I am so grateful for Coleman, John, and Glenn.
Wokeness is an artificial construct at this point. In America this is how they turn people against each other politically. Culture issues when 80% of our problems are economic issues. People who can’t afford to live become desperate. Desperate people do desperate things. Society isn’t served by a 1% vastly owning and running everything.
Excellent. I am an American, who spends time in South Africa. It's imperative that you speak of these issues among your peers. And thank you in advance Lonwabo. 💚
Absolutely.
I'm a woman who looks to these three men for reasonable conversation with others.
Refreshing; they take no sh_t, and they do it with reserve.
Nooooo way are yoo a blaq!!
Noooo way.
I’m a conservative Republican and I love these two. I genuinely appreciate their honesty and how they kindly approach every topic. They are so respectful of all people and it just makes their ideas appealing.
What is conservative about republicans? What are they trying to conserve?
She is not very respectful towards the 'liberal' elite but that's her views. In the UK there is a term 'champagne socialists' that seems to cover some of the same ground (and socialist is not itself an insult in Europe).
I’m not terribly conservative and certainly not a Republican but I love them, too. And you! We truly need more love - and more conversations like this - in our public discourse
I’m a conservative Republican also and I can’t stand this movement because since around 2011 or 2012 I have found it to be so devices and the first time I ever heard the word woke, It came out of President Obama’s mouth and I didn’t know what I meant..
… I think cuz they’re not trying to win an argument. They’re trying to get somewhere intellectually….
Man, if only all journalists were this smart, nuanced and curious... We'd live in a better world. Fantastic conversation. Keep doing what you are doing, Batya and Coleman. We need your voices!!
The problem isn’t the journalists. The problem is the corporations and the market. Non-partisan journalism doesn’t sell anymore, and media companies won’t sell it. It’s really sad, and journalists have been talking about it for a few years now.
Journalists are not in it for the money. In fact, they have been notorious for being underpaid and under appreciated. But their work won’t reach the public eye if companies don’t think it’s profitable. Becoming a journalist isn’t as simple as writing a few stories. These people go through years of school, internships, and lower level positions (often only assisting in editing and interviewing for years) before they’re ever able to fully develop their own piece and actually be compensated for it.
Journalism is a craft and journalists take years to learn it just for companies to tell them that it won’t sell. They aren’t stupid, they aren’t the enemy. Journalists are not the problem. It’s the market.
This felt like a real conversation. One comes away from it with deeper insights rather than feeling that one has wasted one's time or that one's emotions were manipulated to feed an algorithm.
@MathewHawkns well said!!
2 brilliant young people that give me such hope for our country. Thank you both for your thoughtful engagement!!
This is two brilliant thinkers in conversation. Everywhere Coleman goes, the world fills with grace, clarity, and courtesy. And he finds others with the same gifts to explore ideas with. Batya is certainly one of them.
It’s beyond weird that calm & rational discussion (like this) is available on podcasts, but is banned from ‘The Paper of Record’.
It's pleasing that Batya acts in good faith and is eager to hear differing views.
Just bought Batya’s book of Audible Bad News and it’s so good! She is incredible
What about the fact she stole Kim Iverson’s interview instead of standing with her co anchors.
She is the worst, she makes bad Faith arguments and then says she is just addressing an audience and that it’s not her view. Except she never says anything that goes against Corpo Shill agendas
She is the worst ugh
I'm also a conservative Republican and this as a very refreshing conversation with a simple focus on truth rather than who is right. As a senior citizen, I wish to say, imho, that Batya's chronolgy of wokeism and the effects of elitism was spot on.
Listening to Coleman Hughes brings to mind the calm intelligence and good humor of Thomas Sowell.
I love Coleman's takes on almost anything. So inspirational and downright impressive.
“We can learn to work and speak when we are afraid in the same way we have learned to work and speak when we are tired. For we have been socialized to respect fear more than our own needs for language and definition, and while we wait in silence for that final luxury of fearlessness, the weight of that silence will choke us.” Audre Lorde
Great conversation! I was led to this podcast by a friend. 👏🏻❤️
You guys have a very natural rapport. You should do more collaborations together.
The culture war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous.
Underrated thought
It's a version of Mao's continual revolution.
The culture war is being fought on both sides
"Defund the Police" was a rubbish slogan. They should have gone with something more like "can we please look at the Nordic model of policing where police are required to take 3 years of training, including understanding the value of coordinating with social services agencies," but I guess that would not have fit on a placard.
Or "fund police training" but that's too positive, doesn't feed the rage machine
Love Seeing You Two Talk Together!!! Thanks for posting this Coleman!!!!!
Excellent conversation! Love Batya's insights on class! ❤
Great conversation and people, glad you brought Ungar on Coleman!
One thing I thought was funny: Ungar mentioned Madoff was obviously Jewish - I honestly had no idea he was until right now! I just thought he was obviously greedy and corrupt. :]
Batya always impresses. So genuine and curious. Very nice crash course on how the class of journalism has changed and evolved over the years. Somewhat personifies the radical working-man journalist.
Very interesting conversation that has given me a lot to think about. I loved how earlier it was more back and forth, but Batya seemed to take over part way through. I understand that she was very passionate and excited, but I enjoy these better when it’s more of a back and forth conversation . I’m not sure on some of her views either. I definitely think she’s got at least half the picture though. Again, a lot in there to think about, and I’ll probably have to listen to it again to develop better thoughts on the ideas discussed. Loved it overall though, and keep up the great work!
Another lively, engaging, and thought-provoking conversation! Thanks to Coleman and Batya. Go Coleman! Warm wishes from Detroit.
Great talk from Coleman Hughes. Refreshing to hear these views being discussed.
What a pleasant, genuine, honest , important, informative discussion. I really enjoyed it.
If there were only few more of you…
Thank you
This is one best podcast I have listened to Coleman do. I loved her questions.
Great conversation! One of my favorite interviewers and a great guest, I adore Batya Ungar-Sargon
This was a REALLY GREAT convo. Im glad this collab happened
Wonderful conversation! And both host and guest are wonderful exemplars of integrity
Great discussion! Could listen for another hour..
Had to subscribe. First time seeing your content and I look forward to seeing more. Excellent conversation.
Thank you, appreciate it!
The content of this conversation is fantastic.
Great conversation!
Excellent conversation! Mary Harrington is brilliant and very timely for your young listeners.
Great exchange. Love your content.
Wow. One of your bests so far!
Love Batya. Thanks for this show, Coleman, love you too.
Great stuff, loved this episode.
I really enjoyed this conversation. Love Batya's open sense of humor and good nature.
one of the best videos of yours Coleman!.
Battalion, I love your tribe harmony style. Makes you so pleasant to listen to, and disarming ... for your sharp analysis and observations
So much well deserved love for Batya here. You're guests are always 🔥
Terrific interview. You are both so bright, so courageous, so principled. As fascism was to the 1920s and 30s, woke is to the 2020s. How we deal with the challenge of a tribalism popular with elites (wokeism) will determine our lives for many years to come.
Great conversation.
Clearly Coleman has those qualities known as well tempered & disciplined.
Awesome conversation. Both of you, great work. By way of Batya, I see 100% eye to eye with her views. I appreciate the way her articulation can be politically representative.
Just realised I'm not a subscriber. What an oversight. Fixed immediately.
Coleman, you and Batya are truly open-minded; thus, you’re both living testaments of the classic definition of liberalism. Thank you.
This was a good talk. Refreshingly honest. Mindboggling honest in fact.
Frackn stellar conversation yo
Wow! Top stuff. Thank you both of you. Regards from Denmark.
Great convo
Heaven would be spending a day talking with you and Batya.
1:06:45. I love listening to Batya but this was probably the silliest view I have ever heard from her. There are always elites, and there will always be. If this is what is behind her thinking, well, I don't know; she's a less reliable guide on these issues than I thought. Wow
Journalism used to be a relatively poorly paid but honourable profession. As journalism became infotainment then 24x7 wall to wall corporations with shareholders, then more and more globally monopolised and profitable, the groupthink was inevitable and integrity was snuffed out. Add in the ideological capture of the institutions that churn out media graduates and you have a perfect storm.
Great discussion
You are both truly fabulous.
the chemistry is in the air
Whatever the top story on the front page of your newspaper would have been in 1995, you would have seen it once (maybe twice) that day. Now due to our phones, internet etc we are bombarded with that story all day unless you turn off your phone, and I am sure this raises tensions quite a lot.
1:26:35 Coleman may be accurately describing Sanders' 2010 platform. However, it's not Marxist, which would require that the workers own the means of production. A Marxist wouldn't tax the rich because wealth would be collectively owned.
Fantastic conversation!! I still think smart people (with expertise) should rule, 100%, but other than that, so thought provoking!!
The point Coleman makes at 1:02:45 is illustrated so so beautifully in the movie "The Menu." I highly recommend it to everyone.
1:05:07 I'm not sure Batya understands the concept of meritocracy. It certainly has nothing to do with increasing the number of elites of color. More generally, it has nothing to do with group identity except as defined by ability and achievement.
As an Indian, I see the exact whole verbiage being important to the Indian polity. Even in places by politicians who are known to be absolute thugs, who violently attack people if they don't vote for them (DMK Tamil Nadu). Those who victimise people are now using victimhood language. It's chilling. L
Roadrage walking... -I can relate to that 🙂
Great conversation!
What a wonderful man Coleman Hughes is.
This was a great conversation! Insightful! BTW, the music was great!
I'll listen to this tomorrow~°• By the way, Coleman, will you release a CD for your album?
It’s embarrassing when she starts giving Fox News as an example of truthful journalism and Tucker Carlson. I get her point that people reject woke joirnalism. But Fox’s lawsuit is showing objectively how they lie to their viewers. Insane
That was a little hard to watch given recent revelations lol
@@hcct and maddow, set the precedent with that her legal argument when she was sued, that her show is not news, its opinion based.
fox was sued sure, cause some hosts stated what they believe in, so they were sued by an even larger company, msnbc/abc/cnn, dont attack elites, they attack the working class, none of them questioned jussie, or trump russian collusion, covid, that inflation isnt happening to wait it is and why its a good thing, they claimed sandman/rittenhouse were racist. if fox is sued once in a while for fake news by elites, while other news stations attack the working class/poor, and push policy that hurts the working class most. ill take the idiot that means well, over the intellicutuals who deceives me.
So, can we assume that you are holding the mainstream media to the same standard since they have so many examples of promoting falsehoods? Each story must stand on the facts. Tucker was (is) a commentator, so the very few times I watched him, I was always skeptical, but I could check out the facts. He got some wrong and some right.
Another point is that she is referring to reporters and whether the report is factual. How many retractions have the NYT an WAPO had to issue lately just on the Hunter Biden story alone?
She's embarrassingly biased
Coleman, you have much more advertising on your UA-cam content than your average bear, which indicates success! Congratulations!
Great interview but what's up with the audio?
This is fantastic 👏👏
Signalling virtue while not actually making the world better has become a drug for the people who absolutely need a group to identify themselves with.
Another great show, thanks. I wanted to comment on the discussion of antisemitism vs racism against blacks. I'm a third generation German Jewish immigrant but I was raised Roman Catholic. I had no knowledge of my ethnicity until my teens and barely had any access to that world so it had no hold on me. I'm in my 60s now and became interested in my roots about a decade ago. My research on my ethnicity was done from the outside while Batya's is a lived experience. Jewish oppression has been so common for so long that Jewish culture defuses and minimizes it. Because of this, I think Batya's views are skewed. Regardless, it's not a competition and treating it as such benefits nobody. Antisemitism and racism should be condemned, not compared.
This chick's wilde. I'm gonna really need some time to process the stuff she says towarda the end.
Great interview.
I can't find any links to the promotions and ads in the podcast. Would like to check them out but I don't have time to go back and listen.🤷♀️ Could you post them in show notes? Enjoyed the podcast. Some comments need background or context that I don't have in order to understand. Guess you can only go so far in the time frame but at least rational views are explored, unlike current msm. Thank you!
The last 10-15 years has actually slowly taught me to be proud of being a white person and has quashed all sense of guilt I might have once possibly felt. Silver-lining there, I guess, to the insanity of the times.
No one should be ashamed of one's race. It's not clear to me why one should be proud of his race either. Can you explain what it means to you to be proud of being a white person?
@@JonathanRossRogers You might have a point: it's a pretty neutral thing, one's race.
@@JonathanRossRogersGood reply. Accomplishment is something to be proud of, not skin color
Love Batya! ❤️ 💯
I’m so glad i saw Colman on Glenn Greenwalds show. Big fan.
Reflecting the working class is like saying the customer is always right ... when we know that's often not true. But populism is gonna pander ...
I want this editor as my therapist!
I'm a Southerner and found the flag conversation interesting. There's a long history of Southerners who don't like the Confederate flag being conflated with Southern identity and think that using it as a symbol of our entire history, culture, and area isn't a good idea. Southern doesn't mean Confederate but there has definitely been a big historical push to conflate the two. And it has been pretty effective.
Thank you 👍. I feel the same way about an integrated society, for the greater consciousness which is in us.
1:01:48 It sounds like voluntary spatial sorting is an important part of the current situation. I'm sure Batya's right that income is important, but the lack of diverse opinions one commonly encounters must also be important. People who are surrounded by people with similar opinions will tend toward extremes.
Hey Coleman, what’s with the beanie?
It’s because in America and in the west cable, news media and TV channels are owned by bigger corporations, like block, rock and Disney, etc. etc. and that’s why
I'm at the point that I think hiring higher educated people in jurno was deliberate and calculated. It makes it so much easier for the narratives to be in line.
What is woke again?
Coleman, have you interviewed Bari Weiss? If not, you might want to have her on your show.
I love Batya
Excellent conversation, thank you. Coming to age in the 80's, I noticed magazines like The Atlantic promoting contrarian viewpoints anchored by nihilistic/elite/Marxist undertones. By 2010 NYT and NPR became so overt in their messaging I simply stopped tuning in.
We had no choice in our race. Its simple, just treat everyone with love and respect. MLK was correct and not naive
Did young Coleman just walk up to me in the parking lot and ask if I like hip hop?
I first heard this lady on Quillette. She's great!
I love Batya.
I live in a mobile home (on the wrong side of the tracks, no less) in the western US but am a New York Times subscriber. I must read completely different articles than Batya. Also, the New york Times may be "woke" but their economics are pretty conservative, especially if you look at it from an environmentalist perspective. Much of their reporting is just informative, which is why I subscribe. I ignore all the articles about trans people, though.
Before we close the southern border, maybe we could first try changing our policies that create havoc in Central America, driving Central Americans to flee north?
No pushback against her economic illiteracy? Shame.
outstanding
What Batya says about antisemitism has not aged as well as I would have hoped. I love the conversations tho.
Being proud of ppl based on physical characteristics is very different than the pride of an Italian American might have when seeing the Sistine Chapel or seeing a documentary on Fermi.
Pride in a civilization is understandable, but somehow associating ppl on the basis of skin color or hair texture or eye shape, is just ridiculous and baseless.