I am literally 20 minutes away from finishing this discussion, and listening to two mature men discussing ideas and differing viewpoints in a constructive, respectable, kind and understanding manner, has been such a joy. Thank you both for sharing this discussion for the rest of us to enjoy 😊
As a primary teacher who trained in a Brazilian university, I cannot thank you enough for constantly bringing up Paulo Freire. I thought he had only succeeded in ruining education in Brazil!
My brother, it was a true honor. I hope we modeled our values for everyone and I’m so humbled by the unique challenges you present to me as a deeply ideological person who is prone to seeking alignment with first principles at every turn.
I work in a public school in the SF Bay Area... You guys are correct. Last year we had 7 months of MANDATED PDs (professional development sessions) based on the work of Ibram X Kendi. We were told, by the DEI department leaders, that the sessions were 'safe spaces'. This may have been true IF you happened to agree with what was being presented. I made a statement that I didn't believe that Kendi's work was based on data and was shot down by insults from a colleague. So much for the claim of 'safe spaces'. What is frustrating, for me, is that former colleagues, who have been out of the system for 10 years, have trouble believing how bad the indoctrination has become. Keep up the good work. Thank you!
Also a teacher. I teach science in high school in Canada. It's the same up here. People vehemently deny DEI or CRT is in schools but it is there, 100%. Trying to convince people who much things have changed, how it truly is *indoctrination* is an uphill battle - particularly when a person (like myself) is afraid of being branded racist and losing their job. Heck, my board literally has "BIPOC hiring blitzes" (that's the title admin uses) so the ONLY people who can be hired are non-white. The profession is insane right now.
You are seeing human desire for acceptance at play. The Ashford experiments of the 50's demonstrated that people will deny reality if they think it means group acceptance and this is higher in women then men being that women are high in agreeableness where as men are low in agreeableness. I'm sure some of your colleges genuinely believe this non-sense but many are going along with it because they perceive it as being the majority take and they don't want to be ostracized by the group. This DEI non-sense didn't roll in overnight but was slowly nurtured bit by but until enough were on born they could then coerce others to get on board or risk being kicked out. This is psychological warfare and none of this is organic. A desire outcome was sought, to change societal norms, and that was achieved via small incremental steps that when examined individually seemed reasonable; the slipper slope (which is not always teh fallacy claimed) but done slowly over time in increments where said increments grow larger with each step. This is why it feels like as if this all just happened within teh last 10 years or so. My wife was a teacher in the late 90's and left in 2005 when she saw what was happening and what was being planned. She told me we can not let our kids attained public school; we have to find a way for her to stay at home so she could raise and homeschool our kids. Thank GOD we did that.
A family friend once told my Mother "There are 13 tenured people in my department, all 13 are members of the Socialist Party of Illinois and militant atheists, and if you arent just like them they have a hundred different ways of anonymously making sure you'll never get tenure". That was 30 years ago.
Believe it or not, when I was at Stanford from ‘85-‘89, a course on “Critical Thinking” was required for all freshmen! How things have changed! (… and all the classics of “Western Civilization” for the first two years of college!)
For modernists, critical thinking is a rationalization of nihilism guided by Kants unfocused mind. In the mid70s, I heard a Stanford philosophy prof attempt to teach Sartre w/symbolic logic. Surely Jean-Paul laughed in his grave at the absurdity. Perhaps in respponse to this "philosophy," a South American student harangued the class w/Marxist politics. It was summer. The women were California chicks. I was amused.
Exactly the same for me in my undergrade in mid 80's.. I liked it so much I did my degrees in philosophy logic and masters in in philosophy of education. I still teach a modified version of CT to my middle school kids!
I'm a just-retired university librarian. Thank you Peter for your ongoing efforts trying to explain the Dantesque world of academic publishing. Covid showed how adding funding bodies to the model makes it putrid and toxic (I don't have words for how terrible it is, and most academics, including Brett and Heather, don't have a firm handle on it) Regarding religion and atheism. Among people I know the most strongly vehement advocates of "social justice"are ex-Catholics,now dogged unbelievers. I think they don't even realise where their beliefs were born, but Liberation Theology, paternalism, guilt and hierarchy probably have a lot to do with it. "Just be kind" has never been an effective governance strategy.
Our Catholic church has been under attack from within and without since 1898. Look it up. Marxism had it's eyes squarely on the Vatican from day one. And within 70 years from then they produced many of the most horrible monsters of Communism from the 20th Century.
@Profit_is_Thefta communist structure is like a Hershey's kiss, with nearly everyone at the bottom and a micro elite having all money and power, restrained by no freedoms or legal protections for the masses.
Thanks Peter. (and Dad for hosting this) Good to see some courage, reason and truth….. even if you are an atheist! 😀 This topic of conversation needs expanded. You are a minority. Truth is under threat - but will eventually expose the cancerous growth of deception….
This man has hit the heart of our collapse. We are headed for very dark times. I think we passed the point of no return maybe ten years ago. Edit: I am slightly more optimistic now. The election wasn’t even close. Maybe people are waking up.
Yeah with trumps term now it's looking like a dismantling of the education indoctrination camps. There is a glimmer where there was none before. Stay vigilant.
This was the most brilliant conversation I ever heard! Thank you so much for exploring these topics that get one to use critical thinking! I have learned a lot and will listen to this video again and again. Thank you!🙏
Peter Boghossian , you were very good here with DSA . Both of you said so many thought provoking things . I think I gained some clarity ... MOST APPRECIATED !
This was a FANTASTIC interview! Peter is at the top of his game and Dad is doing a damn fine as well. And I mean this video yes, but not just this one but the whole body of their work. These guys goals/desired outcome/result desires and refined mindsets are rare. Maybe 1 percent or less. These are a couple of my inspirations from which I work towards……
One of the best conversations I've heard in quite a while. Thank you both for a wonderfully rational discussion on a complex collection of ideas. Reason, evidence and argument. That's how my dinner table was laid out for me growing up :)
Writing 7 articles in 7 years supported by peers to get tenure has taken higher education to where it is now it seems. The papers which were produced by PB et al is just so incredibly clever.
From 1:29 on is very well done. To assume there is no value in suffering is questionable. Finding the space in that without being masochistic or oppressive is the key. We have our work cut out for us . . . DIALOGUE please. Well done John, and thank you Peter. Blessings
This infection has ruined the arts and storytelling as well, on campus and in the world. I know. I teach at an art school. I quietly try to communicate with the students beneath it.
Peter always reminds me to double and triple check my pulse when it comes to what I think and believe. This was the most in-depth I've seen him plunge, philosophically speaking. This was great and another solid reminder to keep thinking about how I know what I know. I've heard John's (or at least part of) argument about religion before - that humans have a "god-shaped" hole (not literally) in our brains. Meaning we're wired to believe in a super natural being. People point to the way humans gravitate to religion as proof of that. It's too easy but far too long to type to knock that down. But, it's interesting. On a final note, other than thanking Peter and John for this fabulous chat, when asked if she was an atheist, Margaret Atwood once quipped (and I am paraphrasing) that the story of a world with a god in it is the far more interesting story than the one without. ❤
Now that was funny...! 15:59: '...I think her name was Helen Helen Wilson, closely examined the genitals of something crazy like 10,000 dogs but never in the heavy rain and then she used black feminist criminology, which literally had nothing to do with it...'.
I read those phony papers that they submitted to the academic journals and they were genuinely hilarious. The funniest thing I've read in years. I laughed my ass off. They were hard to find online though and I had to download them into my files on the computer and everything, which I found very difficult because I usually don't do any of that stuff. And I never did find all of them.
I would love to get my app to read those to me! Bad neck injury that medicine basically ignores though, can barely research/read unless I can heal from it all by myself... any help getting them would be appreciated! Drive link?
I quite enjoy these intellectual discussions and these two gentlemen's musings. Im just a house painter and am completely untroubled by today's institutional upheavals; im rather wholly focused on getting a lot tangibly accomplished each day. Id advise these fellas to get out and do some elemental work regularly. They will be happier.
Dad, Thank you for your bravery in discussing this. I am currently wrestling with the following thoughts. Religion, myth, and ceremony, have always been the tools of culture to teach cultural behavior and societal morals. The gods, stories and gnomes of those myths and religions are story telling tools to teach social morality. What happens when we make a social education network that uses things like literacy, mathematics and science as the binding stories and forget that we are primarily teaching sociality- The industrialized assimilation education system. Worsen that by making the education system a government run entity with compulsory attendance and what you have is a state run church with little to no sociological directive. You are ether in the church or a heretic. Stopping the trend is going to look like an enlightenment or religious war. Separation of state and church fundamentally means separation of education and state. Is there another way?
When my sister was reading PPP at Oxford, one of her subjects was Animal Behaviour. She had tutorials with a man called Richard Dawkins He had not then published any of his own books on natural selection, but got her to read one by Haldane without writing an essay on it. He then spent a tutorial arguing with her about it. The book was trying to explain not only evolution, but the origin of life, by supposing that once something could replicate itself in certain surroundings, its self-replicating progeny could evolve into a living organism. She argued that on a mechanistic understanding of inheritance, a new surrounding would rob a gene of the powers (of self-replication etc.) which accrue to it by the chance of having the surroundings that it had. She did not see how natural selection could explain cell differentiation. Very earnestly, Richard Dawkins said to her: 'YOU MUST HAVE FAITH!'
Hearing someone put so eloquently, every institutional disaster I've believed we are facing for over a decade, was seriously music to my ears. Thank fk there are still those who follow in the footsteps of Feynman, even as they are being drowned in a sea of midwits ❤😂
At 35:16 we should clarify, the ideologues in Silicon Valley supporting identity politics are not engineers, but computer programmers, and are largely (amazingly) non technical and don't deal in physics, but basically deal in language. Actual Engineers by their very nature are generally against identity politics, or any politics.
Peter makes 2 contradictory statements: 1) he wants to give people the "gift' of doubt. He also says in 1:33 that he wouldn't want to be wrong for even a second longer than he had to be, so kindness is setting someone straight about reality. If a person is right and you give them doubt, you are making them "wrong" for at least a few seconds, until they understand why that doubt was wrong. So the question is how to minimize our time being wrong, not about living in a constant state of doubt. Also, he did a motte-bailey with the limbless flourishing of society: it CAN be argued that limbless people can be good for society (for example, corporal punishment for severe criminals), whereas obviously no one would choose that for themselves as inviduals (including, of course, the most notorious of criminals).
I'm not sure what Peter meant by the term, but in common english, doubt means 'a feeling of uncertainty or lack of conviction.'. It doesn't mean you believe something wrong, but rather that you are witholding belief one way or the other. Being in doubt about every single question is a for-certain way to ensure you are never wrong. And also never right. :)
I’ve heard two different times now from mental health professionals that they are “flying a plane while building it…” which tells me that this rationale is one that is being circulated within these new movements. How do you think that’s gonna turn out for us?
Flying a plane while still building it, reminds me of a joke about the 'optimist' who, while falling off a skyscraper says, "Well, so far, so good !" womp womp🥴
great interview! love Peter B. that last closing remark really illustrates the emptiness of atheism and what we’ll probably get from New Atheist Christians.
1:25:02 "The atheist movement itself is religious". What are you talking about, Peter? What is the god of atheism to whom atheists pledge obedience? What are the rites they follow? What singular holy book do they uphold? What are the "truths" that they blindly follow? Honestly, what are you talking about? Atheism is the rejection in the a priori belief in gods and religions, that's it. It has no content, no prescriptions, no philosophy of life, no nothing. It is not an ideology in any sense of the word, I repeat: it has no content. You can gather a thousand atheists in a room and find them to be completely different people in every way, philosophically, morally, politically, culturally, gastronomically, musically, etc, whose only common thread is the commonsensical notion of not believing in religions or myths for no reason. How can that be called a religion? For someone who supposedly cares a lot about the definition of words and how to use them with honesty and precision you truly dissapointed on that one.
I have described my self as a "devout" atheist and been told I'm not allowed to use the word devout. I have been told that not believing is just a belief. Bizarre.
Dawkins is the prophet of atheism. Dawkins himself has said you have to accept some scientific theories on faith. It actually takes more faith to believe in nothingness and something coming from nothing. The rites and rituals are the rites and rituals of academia and becoming academically credentialed which has so many rites and rituals. Peter is right. The atheist movement is itself religious.
I find it interesting that people are willing to point out that he is not a Christian. While it matters for his afterlife, that is his to figure out and His to show the way. Taake from PB what he does have that is good and useful, because, like race, I don’t give someone credit as a human being who opens society’s eyes as anything except a man with good intention and the brain capacity to do it well. It may even be detrimental to the cause as there are a lot of non-religious people who need someone to listen to that will give them the right message for the US, without bringing God into it. It is one of the weaknesses of the Christian society here in the US that just by saying that you are Christian, you are immediately dismissed as a non-thinker. Despite the fact that all Of our morals and values come from a Biblical background (laws and the Ten Comandments) and those who don’t understand that are people that need to learn critical thinking and how to apply it, as well as teaching those people self awareness. Good luck with that. Just be happy that he is on your political side and keep praying for his ability to open eyes through words and getting through to people who are not like us, but hold our same political goals. It’s fine that we don’t all agree as long as we can also understand we may be incorrect and willingness to change our stances when challenged w facts. Sorry, rambling.
An analogy of ‘the master’s tools’ at around 59:50 is “a divided house cannot stand”. The ideologues use an irrational logic to support their insane narrative (the conclusion that they started with and worked their way backwards from). When you use logic back at them, the whole thing falls apart. Peter is brilliant.
Not really. He's not properly steelmanning their position. He's framing it in a way that anyone would find ridiculous and irrational, which means it's not a steelman. Peter talks a lot about epistemology and debate and understanding all sides and yet his own beliefs he can't defend at all if you watch his interview with Alex O'Connor. And I tend to agree with him on most issues.
If your child is under 7 and claiming the wrong gender then it's NOT gender confusion - it's greed. They see the other sex being favored and want that favor. They haven't yet learned about sex so they can't be confused about it. It's greed for wanting what someone else possesses.
Isn't that Marxism in a nutshell? Most of modern ideologies are based heavily on envy and greed. The whole victim hierarchy, the trans issue (with a tiny percentage of exceptions), the claim of systemic racism, DEI etc. It's all wanting what someone else possesses, whiteout having to actually work for it. Bottom line: Not everyone grows out of it, and worryingly, these children in grown-ups' bodies are taking over society.
There are many mirrors here in the “Agile” software development paradigm that has emerged over the last 2 decades. A overwhelming focus on short term goals, production of software above any other consideration, devaluation of forethought, forward planning and documentation. I find it interesting that this paradigm has emerged and embedded itself into the epistemology of the vast majority of IT projects.
Wooow, goes w a feeling I have that some of this is unconscious reaction to structural worries combined w/ lacking intellect or privilege to cope - higher costs o everything, easier to lose opportunities for having opinions, an oncoming president who wants a dictatorship... etc Preparing to have nothing and brave an onslaught...
40:32 - there is actually a lot of strong data that supports the harm of same sex ‘marriage’ upon society; & even more foundational is what is marriage and why is marriage promoted by nations/ govmts throughout history.. the foundational reason removes any reason/ motive/ desire of a genuine/ rational govmt to every even consider supporting/ acknowledging same sex unions in Law (irregardless if such govmts have no laws prohibiting sexual relations of same sex individuals (though, this would also eventually be outlawed due to STD’s growing, as would adultery & sex outside of marriage).
1:28:20 I notice a lot of atheists are woke, but I also notice a lot of Christians are woke. Wokism and Christianity are not mutually exclusive. I’m an anti-woke atheist myself. I appreciate Peter and James Lindsay and Michael Shermer because 90+ percent of people I agree with politically are “believers” and they often crap on atheists as if we’re all woke weirdos. Even Dave Smith and Dave Rubin went from being outspoken non-woke atheists to “believers” but with no revelation and no refutation of their solid arguments, etc, then go on to crap on atheists the same way, as if they don’t know the logical reasons they themselves were atheists 5 minutes ago.
woke is the natural extension of western culture's obsession with freedom and rights. An obsession with freedom and rights will necessary devolve into the freedom and rights to do whatever degenerate thing your body evolutionarily desires.
1:38:55 “We are made in the image of God”, that is the fundamental cornerstone of the faith. Belief in that is what everything else that means anything is built on; lack of belief in that is where everything starts to crumble…
PB has been a guest on a number of Christian's programs recently. I hope he is coming around to, at least, respect Christians. Clearly he has seen the benefits of Christianity on culture. But he seems to be one of the last red-pilled atheist that is still rather demining and sarcastic when he speaks of anyone of faith. Thanks for having him on!
Peter realizes the structure of religion is important for society but also realizes many take religion too far. I think he’s going to realize there isn’t another system that will work as well as Christianity though
@@brianmeen2158 plenty of systems will work better than christianity. The problem is you need to get rid of western culture/ideology, which is basically the source of all evil in order to arrive there.
I'm yet to be convinced. I think he is low in trait agreeableness AND in trait openness. He has a blank where others see a kaleidoscope. It's like explaining literature to a sports jock. Even if he were able to put to bed his own dogma about materialism, I'm not sure he has the psychological 'organs' to deal with metanarratives. This is a r*cist statement, but I have met "Magyars" before who speak with this excited passion, and also have this blank where others would enter their inner world of imagination. Unimaginative, I think that's Peter's weakness.
The United States spent more money than the other nine countries on the top 10 list. Russian is number 4 on that list. Trillions of dollars were spent in the last 10 years on the military industrial complex. Trillions of dollars will be spent over the next 10 years on the military industrial complex.. Social Security will run out in less than 10 years. Were using those funds on illegal immigrants without a voting on it. Why? When are Social Security trust fund runs out, there will be an automatic 18% to 25% reduction.
The absolute best explanation for all of the current crop of these things infesting our lives at the moment "the musings of ideologues". Now my go to explanation for this cancer multiplying in modern society.
We haven't had an "epidemic of cowardice." We are experiencing what 1970s "liberation" movements (which Boghossian supported) become once they have secured institutional power. Their "liberation" depends on others' subjugation. Their "oppression" transmutes into a desire to oppress others. All this was known and documented while Boghossian was still in short pants. He just chose to ignore it until it reached his office.
I’m still trying to figure out how anyone could believe the “Dog Park” paper. Who walks up to someone in a dog park and ask “Mind if I look at your dog’s genitals?”
Not smart enough to be a research scientist but worked as a laboratory technician to a few top people. Medical research. Seems to me that peer review is the key thing. My impression was that many tried to avoid this or do minimal review.
Consider Origen, the the first council of Nicaea AD325 the Council of Chalcedon AD451 and all the other councils, they were working out the Trinity. Some how, Jesus and his advice had to be Godly... that stood for quite a few years until Marxist theory. The problem is, if you personally follow Christ's advice, things tend to endure. We carry our cross, forgiving our enemies. It's good for society too as it honours marriage and encourages us to live in peace. Woke is a religion, we must see it for what it is: contradictive, lacking in clemency and destructive.
"The musings of ideologues." I took on a PhD later in life and found the mind-bending ideological lenses through which you were obliged to look at your subject. (In my case translation). Btw In the West our identity used to be based on what we DID - you see it in UK surnames - Smith - Thatcher - Baker etc.
and where we were from - places became surnames too. Mine comes from French 'Godwin de Kent' = Godwin of Kent. We were through our names linked to jobs and places - very much holding identity to them.
I worked in the Interlibrary loan department of a major university. I had 35000 potential clients, and 1/3 of all the material I requested was related to either socialism, gender studies or racism.
I seem to be one of the only people out of everyone i know, not trying to toot my own horn, to constantly question what I believe. And thus, I have changed my mind on several key viewpoints I've had throughout my life. What I see all around me are people who have the exact same viewpoints/opinions/beliefs they've had their whole life, 50+ yrs in some cases. What they seem to do, is cherry pick "evidence'' or even skew actual data to affirm their beliefs. I truly have always felt like what Peter was expressing, what does the evidence tell us? What are the outcomes the data ACTUALLY point to? And are they moral? Why or why aren't they moral? How does one argue that they are or are not? Then again I've always been a really deep thinker, over analyzing everything to death. I doubt this even gets read lmao.
"both of my kids are gay" hmmmm... find anything strange or worth doing some analysis on there, Pete? What do you think of families who have multiple trans children?
Hos kids were probably in public school in Portland and were indoctrinated with homosexual stuff. The cultural cool aid of liberal public schools is highly toxic.
I first heard inclusion used in a good way, including disabled students into general swimming lessons. I did that before the term was used. I signed up my son with autism into regular swim lessons with his brother. They both enjoyed the classes, but his brother advanced. My son with Autism would not put his face in the water, so he couldn't get out of the level 1 class.
inclusion is when you get kicked out of your swim club you've been in for half your life because you have a proper moral conscience and refuse to kneel down to western woke evil
I had saved this to "watch later" because I knew it would tax my brain cells. Finally watched 7 months later because it's a slow day on the 'Tubes. Someone should take an MRI of my brain right now. I'm off to take a nap. 😴
Another excellent if scary input Dad. How do we break this toxicity particularly in mainstream media, education, particularly higher education, corporate life. We are making ourselves extremely vulnerable to external despots e.g Putin and making it all the more likely that we encourage one of our own such as Hitler or Stalin
Amazing and so thought provoking! Just one thing: "It is incumbent upon you and ME" not "It is incumbent upon you and I". In this case it is an objective pronoun, not subjective... Thank you!
What an interesting and wonderful conversation, thank you both for trying to get closer to " the truth" ! I thought that the idea may be true: God made human and humand created religion.
Addressed to both Peter and Dad, where did the concepts of right and wrong come from? Or the respect for the elderly? I believe the San Koi, had both and even make a prayer of forgiveness when killing prey for the village. Was that instictive? Or a form of spirituality at one with the universe....
i use an epistemology of motivation technique where i lay out a claim on a grid of T/F and Pro/Con. if P then how does it benefit you and how does it harm you and also for -P. this i think helps flesh out the hidden motivations people have for beliefs OTHER THAN the desire for truth which i think is not a very high priority for most people.
Part of my humility is understanding that what has worked for 2000 years has some validity by virtue of its persistence. Evidence on some issues is subject to being over insufficient time scale. For example not pushing sexual deviations to the outside may take 3 generations to play out and be very hard to isolate.
We need to build a new system outside of the corrupt, corporate captured one. It can’t be saved, it is like a late stage cancer that is killing our country. We need local healthcare “clubs” or possibly under the guise of religious or charitable organizations. I think those groups are afforded certain protections and rights but I’m not sure. What went on in American hospitals during the plandemic was absolutely criminal. We need places that sick people can go to actually get healed, not poisoned, for an affordable price.
@drpeterboghossian no one wants to be nudged towards something that’s benign. ‘Religions’ provide a seemingly comprehensive framework to deal with the world; there are genuine problems that people face, and genuine religions to give answers. The problem with defending western civilization and its foundations and then de facto assuming that it makes white people or the patriarchy ‘in the clear’ from attacks from the untethered left is that it overlooks corruption and power plays (which the left exalts) that western institutions have either flirted with or embraced. Sam Harris just did a podcast with Anne Applebaum about the dangers of the US slipping towards looking like an autocracy. Is Trump by accident? Why the hell was Hunter on the board of a Ukrainian energy company? Religions, and importantly worldviews and convictions need to have internal consistency- western institutions suffer from corruption which we need to have the courage to correct. 1:26:29
(1) "If you think you've found the truth you don't seek it" "The gate-keepers of reason have all fallen" In centuries to come, Boghossian will be mined for quotes. (2) I disagree with Boghossian on somethings: - gay marriage. OK, for you to call yourself gay, and OK to declare you're "married". But, ... the institution of marriage is established and subsidized (tax breaks) because it enables better child rearing. That's why we value marriage. Gays don't rear kids, apart from a tiny minority of lesbians. BTW: aren't most lesbians themselves, childless? - 'climate change'. I was shocked a few years ago to see armies of ex-new atheists, 'critical thinkers', and kow-towing to the climate hysteria psychopathology. I think Peter Boghossian is the best philosopher working today. A gem. (3) PS: "The Epistemology of Democracy", by Elizabeth Anderson. 2006. It that the journal article PB cited?
Thanks so much for having me on your show, John.
I am literally 20 minutes away from finishing this discussion, and listening to two mature men discussing ideas and differing viewpoints in a constructive, respectable, kind and understanding manner, has been such a joy. Thank you both for sharing this discussion for the rest of us to enjoy 😊
As a primary teacher who trained in a Brazilian university, I cannot thank you enough for constantly bringing up Paulo Freire. I thought he had only succeeded in ruining education in Brazil!
My brother, it was a true honor. I hope we modeled our values for everyone and I’m so humbled by the unique challenges you present to me as a deeply ideological person who is prone to seeking alignment with first principles at every turn.
Wonderful conversation, gentlemen.
I love you both!!
I work in a public school in the SF Bay Area... You guys are correct. Last year we had 7 months of MANDATED PDs (professional development sessions) based on the work of Ibram X Kendi. We were told, by the DEI department leaders, that the sessions were 'safe spaces'. This may have been true IF you happened to agree with what was being presented. I made a statement that I didn't believe that Kendi's work was based on data and was shot down by insults from a colleague. So much for the claim of 'safe spaces'. What is frustrating, for me, is that former colleagues, who have been out of the system for 10 years, have trouble believing how bad the indoctrination has become. Keep up the good work. Thank you!
At that point, you need to move out of frisco. When the machine stops you doing your job.
@@mark4asp no! Then there will be no logic left where I'm from!
Also a teacher. I teach science in high school in Canada. It's the same up here. People vehemently deny DEI or CRT is in schools but it is there, 100%. Trying to convince people who much things have changed, how it truly is *indoctrination* is an uphill battle - particularly when a person (like myself) is afraid of being branded racist and losing their job. Heck, my board literally has "BIPOC hiring blitzes" (that's the title admin uses) so the ONLY people who can be hired are non-white. The profession is insane right now.
You are seeing human desire for acceptance at play. The Ashford experiments of the 50's demonstrated that people will deny reality if they think it means group acceptance and this is higher in women then men being that women are high in agreeableness where as men are low in agreeableness. I'm sure some of your colleges genuinely believe this non-sense but many are going along with it because they perceive it as being the majority take and they don't want to be ostracized by the group. This DEI non-sense didn't roll in overnight but was slowly nurtured bit by but until enough were on born they could then coerce others to get on board or risk being kicked out.
This is psychological warfare and none of this is organic. A desire outcome was sought, to change societal norms, and that was achieved via small incremental steps that when examined individually seemed reasonable; the slipper slope (which is not always teh fallacy claimed) but done slowly over time in increments where said increments grow larger with each step. This is why it feels like as if this all just happened within teh last 10 years or so. My wife was a teacher in the late 90's and left in 2005 when she saw what was happening and what was being planned. She told me we can not let our kids attained public school; we have to find a way for her to stay at home so she could raise and homeschool our kids. Thank GOD we did that.
@MsMathChique and now his whole thing is completely defunct right?
How ironic
A family friend once told my Mother
"There are 13 tenured people in my department, all 13 are members of the Socialist Party of Illinois and militant atheists, and if you arent just like them they have a hundred different ways of anonymously making sure you'll never get tenure".
That was 30 years ago.
It's yesterday, today, tomorrow. Unless you organize and fight back.
Others should not be forced to fund them. That is the oppression ppl must throw off.
Massively disturbing
Believe it or not, when I was at Stanford from ‘85-‘89, a course on “Critical Thinking” was required for all freshmen! How things have changed! (… and all the classics of “Western Civilization” for the first two years of college!)
@Stafus 😂 crtl C, crtl V
🙄🤦🏿♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏽♂️
@Stafus Isn't a large working class preferable to a large poverty class?
For modernists, critical thinking is a rationalization of nihilism guided by Kants unfocused mind. In the mid70s, I heard a Stanford philosophy prof attempt to teach Sartre w/symbolic logic. Surely Jean-Paul laughed in his grave at the absurdity. Perhaps in respponse to this "philosophy," a South American student harangued the class w/Marxist politics. It was summer. The women were California chicks. I was amused.
Exactly the same for me in my undergrade in mid 80's.. I liked it so much I did my degrees in philosophy logic and masters in in philosophy of education. I still teach a modified version of CT to my middle school kids!
@Stafus I'm guessing you don't make a lot of money. Or much of anything, really.
I'm a just-retired university librarian. Thank you Peter for your ongoing efforts trying to explain the Dantesque world of academic publishing. Covid showed how adding funding bodies to the model makes it putrid and toxic (I don't have words for how terrible it is, and most academics, including Brett and Heather, don't have a firm handle on it)
Regarding religion and atheism. Among people I know the most strongly vehement advocates of "social justice"are ex-Catholics,now dogged unbelievers. I think they don't even realise where their beliefs were born, but Liberation Theology, paternalism, guilt and hierarchy probably have a lot to do with it. "Just be kind" has never been an effective governance strategy.
@Stafus
Our Catholic church has been under attack from within and without since 1898. Look it up. Marxism had it's eyes squarely on the Vatican from day one. And within 70 years from then they produced many of the most horrible monsters of Communism from the 20th Century.
@Flux_40yeah, I especially wouldn't recommend commenting the same text when it isn't relevant to what you're commenting on...✌🏾
@Profit_is_Thefta communist structure is like a Hershey's kiss, with nearly everyone at the bottom and a micro elite having all money and power, restrained by no freedoms or legal protections for the masses.
One of the best pods with Peter. Thank you!
This man is the salt of the Earth. We need more people like him.
like, salt in your coffee
He is from the epicenter of woke, and completely avoids discussing who exactly produces woke. He's a coward, at best.
Dad is such a good interviewer! Peter's always marvelous.
I appreciate that! Thank you!
You Tube has told me I cannot express my views on this platform.
Me too
Me too. I keep getting banned for 24 hours. For any negative talk of muslims or gazans.
Same for making jokes about tword mating call alanusnackubar
Welcome to the club!
Ditto. The UA-cam fascists are doing their thing. They hate America.
Thanks Peter. (and Dad for hosting this) Good to see some courage, reason and truth….. even if you are an atheist! 😀 This topic of conversation needs expanded. You are a minority. Truth is under threat - but will eventually expose the cancerous growth of deception….
@Flux_40 careful reposting the same comments, I think it's good information, but it will get you banned for spam regardless of what the content is
This man has hit the heart of our collapse. We are headed for very dark times. I think we passed the point of no return maybe ten years ago. Edit: I am slightly more optimistic now. The election wasn’t even close. Maybe people are waking up.
Yeah with trumps term now it's looking like a dismantling of the education indoctrination camps. There is a glimmer where there was none before. Stay vigilant.
One of the great unsung stories that NOT NEARLY enough people know about. This story should be REQUIRED READING FOR ALL COLLEGE STUDENTS.
I enjoy listening to Dr. Boghossian.❤
This was the most brilliant conversation I ever heard! Thank you so much for exploring these topics that get one to use critical thinking! I have learned a lot and will listen to this video again and again.
Thank you!🙏
Thank YOU. What an amazing thing to say about a two-hour conversation!
Loved it!👍
Peter Boghossian , you were very good here with DSA . Both of you said so many thought provoking things . I think I gained some clarity ... MOST APPRECIATED !
Great interview! It’s encouraging to see respectful conversations
wonderful conversation. peter boghossian is one of my favorite thinkers at the moment, along with bret weinstein.
And Douglas Murray!
@@neomacchio4692 He's been wrong on isreal, but yeah he's been right on a lot of stuff.
This was a FANTASTIC interview! Peter is at the top of his game and Dad is doing a damn fine as well. And I mean this video yes, but not just this one but the whole body of their work.
These guys goals/desired outcome/result desires and refined mindsets are rare. Maybe 1 percent or less. These are a couple of my inspirations from which I work towards……
One of the best conversations I've heard in quite a while. Thank you both for a wonderfully rational discussion on a complex collection of ideas. Reason, evidence and argument. That's how my dinner table was laid out for me growing up :)
Working at a biopharmaceutical company, it was hilarious and ironic to see coworkers with Anti-GMO bumper stickers
Liberals love science except when it doesn’t fit their ideology. They don’t want science in their food or their gender studies
Search for Dr. Tom Cowan.
Ahhhhh the whole episode
Can’t wait ❤
Amazing brilliant discussion. Will listen again… and again.
Thank you guys for not going too deep on certain topics and keeping the conversation on track. Very digestible.
Great conversation gentleman, I really enjoyed this.
And thank you very much Professor for doing the paperwork and putting us across to the average person
Writing 7 articles in 7 years supported by peers to get tenure has taken higher education to where it is now it seems. The papers which were produced by PB et al is just so incredibly clever.
From 1:29 on is very well done. To assume there is no value in suffering is questionable. Finding the space in that without being masochistic or oppressive is the key. We have our work cut out for us . . . DIALOGUE please. Well done John, and thank you Peter. Blessings
This was excellent
Thank you both
Listening to thinking men 🕊
This infection has ruined the arts and storytelling as well, on campus and in the world. I know. I teach at an art school. I quietly try to communicate with the students beneath it.
Very clear, thought provoking and informative. Thank you.
Very thought provoking
Peter always reminds me to double and triple check my pulse when it comes to what I think and believe. This was the most in-depth I've seen him plunge, philosophically speaking. This was great and another solid reminder to keep thinking about how I know what I know.
I've heard John's (or at least part of) argument about religion before - that humans have a "god-shaped" hole (not literally) in our brains. Meaning we're wired to believe in a super natural being. People point to the way humans gravitate to religion as proof of that. It's too easy but far too long to type to knock that down. But, it's interesting.
On a final note, other than thanking Peter and John for this fabulous chat, when asked if she was an atheist, Margaret Atwood once quipped (and I am paraphrasing) that the story of a world with a god in it is the far more interesting story than the one without. ❤
Great conversation. I try my best to self examine and understand which of my beliefs are based on evidence, and which are based on faith or intuition.
Now that was funny...! 15:59: '...I think her name was Helen Helen Wilson, closely examined the genitals of something crazy like 10,000 dogs but never in the heavy rain and then she used black feminist criminology, which literally had nothing to do with it...'.
Great show. Peter is an American hero.
John, thank you for your gracious and Christian perspective.
I read those phony papers that they submitted to the academic journals and they were genuinely hilarious. The funniest thing I've read in years. I laughed my ass off. They were hard to find online though and I had to download them into my files on the computer and everything, which I found very difficult because I usually don't do any of that stuff. And I never did find all of them.
Where can I find the manuscripts?
I would love to get my app to read those to me! Bad neck injury that medicine basically ignores though, can barely research/read unless I can heal from it all by myself... any help getting them would be appreciated! Drive link?
I quite enjoy these intellectual discussions and these two gentlemen's musings.
Im just a house painter and am completely untroubled by today's institutional upheavals; im rather wholly focused on getting a lot tangibly accomplished each day.
Id advise these fellas to get out and do some elemental work regularly.
They will be happier.
Epidemic of cowardice. How perfectly phrased.
Dad, Thank you for your bravery in discussing this. I am currently wrestling with the following thoughts.
Religion, myth, and ceremony, have always been the tools of culture to teach cultural behavior and societal morals. The gods, stories and gnomes of those myths and religions are story telling tools to teach social morality. What happens when we make a social education network that uses things like literacy, mathematics and science as the binding stories and forget that we are primarily teaching sociality- The industrialized assimilation education system.
Worsen that by making the education system a government run entity with compulsory attendance and what you have is a state run church with little to no sociological directive.
You are ether in the church or a heretic. Stopping the trend is going to look like an enlightenment or religious war. Separation of state and church fundamentally means separation of education and state. Is there another way?
When my sister was reading PPP at Oxford, one of her subjects was Animal Behaviour. She had tutorials with a man called Richard Dawkins He had not then published any of his own books on natural selection, but got her to read one by Haldane without writing an essay on it. He then spent a tutorial arguing with her about it.
The book was trying to explain not only evolution, but the origin of life, by supposing that once something could replicate itself in certain surroundings, its self-replicating progeny could evolve into a living organism. She argued that on a mechanistic understanding of inheritance, a new surrounding would rob a gene of the powers (of self-replication etc.) which accrue to it by the chance of having the surroundings that it had. She did not see how natural selection could explain cell differentiation.
Very earnestly, Richard Dawkins said to her:
'YOU MUST HAVE FAITH!'
Ha
Being less wrong more often, good goal
Hearing someone put so eloquently, every institutional disaster I've believed we are facing for over a decade, was seriously music to my ears. Thank fk there are still those who follow in the footsteps of Feynman, even as they are being drowned in a sea of midwits ❤😂
I love this channel - I think you're living up to the show's name.
At 35:16 we should clarify, the ideologues in Silicon Valley supporting identity politics are not engineers, but computer programmers, and are largely (amazingly) non technical and don't deal in physics, but basically deal in language. Actual Engineers by their very nature are generally against identity politics, or any politics.
I like to call them code monkeys. Because they are.
Oh yeah? Come to Michigan, my friend, and quickly disavow yourself of that pollyannism.
@@ichangedmyself4362 that is my experience, generally, but some engineers will be more political. What is your experience?
Ate all your engineers men?@stevenlightfoot6479
As a former programmer, nothing could be further from the truth. Computer languages are based on boolean logic.
Great discussion. Thank you!
I have also been doing a lot of thinking ,it's the absurdity of everything ,it's a pandemic of insanity ,
Peter makes 2 contradictory statements: 1) he wants to give people the "gift' of doubt. He also says in 1:33 that he wouldn't want to be wrong for even a second longer than he had to be, so kindness is setting someone straight about reality. If a person is right and you give them doubt, you are making them "wrong" for at least a few seconds, until they understand why that doubt was wrong. So the question is how to minimize our time being wrong, not about living in a constant state of doubt.
Also, he did a motte-bailey with the limbless flourishing of society: it CAN be argued that limbless people can be good for society (for example, corporal punishment for severe criminals), whereas obviously no one would choose that for themselves as inviduals (including, of course, the most notorious of criminals).
I'm not sure what Peter meant by the term, but in common english, doubt means 'a feeling of uncertainty or lack of conviction.'. It doesn't mean you believe something wrong, but rather that you are witholding belief one way or the other. Being in doubt about every single question is a for-certain way to ensure you are never wrong. And also never right. :)
You are a communist
I'm loving this but OMG I am glad I'm old and won't be around to see where it leads.
I’ve heard two different times now from mental health professionals that they are “flying a plane while building it…” which tells me that this rationale is one that is being circulated within these new movements. How do you think that’s gonna turn out for us?
Flying a plane while still building it, reminds me of a joke about the 'optimist' who, while falling off a skyscraper says, "Well, so far, so good !"
womp womp🥴
If Boeing is the manufacturer we're in big trouble 😂
Great interview. I love how you turn the tables on the there hypocrisy.
great interview! love Peter B.
that last closing remark really illustrates the emptiness of atheism and what we’ll probably get from New Atheist Christians.
1:25:02 "The atheist movement itself is religious". What are you talking about, Peter? What is the god of atheism to whom atheists pledge obedience? What are the rites they follow? What singular holy book do they uphold? What are the "truths" that they blindly follow? Honestly, what are you talking about?
Atheism is the rejection in the a priori belief in gods and religions, that's it. It has no content, no prescriptions, no philosophy of life, no nothing. It is not an ideology in any sense of the word, I repeat: it has no content. You can gather a thousand atheists in a room and find them to be completely different people in every way, philosophically, morally, politically, culturally, gastronomically, musically, etc, whose only common thread is the commonsensical notion of not believing in religions or myths for no reason. How can that be called a religion?
For someone who supposedly cares a lot about the definition of words and how to use them with honesty and precision you truly dissapointed on that one.
I have described my self as a "devout" atheist and been told I'm not allowed to use the word devout. I have been told that not believing is just a belief. Bizarre.
Dawkins is the prophet of atheism. Dawkins himself has said you have to accept some scientific theories on faith. It actually takes more faith to believe in nothingness and something coming from nothing. The rites and rituals are the rites and rituals of academia and becoming academically credentialed which has so many rites and rituals. Peter is right. The atheist movement is itself religious.
Google e. g. Atheism Plus. Many atheists are uncritical about woke ideologies.
It is so reassuring to know there are men like this in the world. My God this was good.
Enjoyed the conversation from both you and Peter, at the end of which his materialistic faithlessness comes to the fore - right on cue! :)
Great interview.
The thing fundamentally wrong with the world is a lack of critical thinking and i feel like we need that most
Outstanding!
I find it interesting that people are willing to point out that he is not a Christian. While it matters for his afterlife, that is his to figure out and His to show the way. Taake from PB what he does have that is good and useful, because, like race, I don’t give someone credit as a human being who opens society’s eyes as anything except a man with good intention and the brain capacity to do it well. It may even be detrimental to the cause as there are a lot of non-religious people who need someone to listen to that will give them the right message for the US, without bringing God into it. It is one of the weaknesses of the Christian society here in the US that just by saying that you are Christian, you are immediately dismissed as a non-thinker. Despite the fact that all
Of our morals and values come from a Biblical background (laws and the Ten Comandments) and those who don’t understand that are people that need to learn critical thinking and how to apply it, as well as teaching those people self awareness.
Good luck with that. Just be happy that he is on your political side and keep praying for his ability to open eyes through words and getting through to people who are not like us, but hold our same political goals. It’s fine that we don’t all agree as long as we can also understand we may be incorrect and willingness to change our stances when challenged w facts.
Sorry, rambling.
Indispensable discussion for any lover of learning, anyone serious about thinking, or those concerned about culture n country. 👌
The art of self-righteousness, denied bias, self overestimation in the flesh. Hats off....
An analogy of ‘the master’s tools’ at around 59:50 is “a divided house cannot stand”.
The ideologues use an irrational logic to support their insane narrative (the conclusion that they started with and worked their way backwards from). When you use logic back at them, the whole thing falls apart.
Peter is brilliant.
Not really. He's not properly steelmanning their position. He's framing it in a way that anyone would find ridiculous and irrational, which means it's not a steelman.
Peter talks a lot about epistemology and debate and understanding all sides and yet his own beliefs he can't defend at all if you watch his interview with Alex O'Connor.
And I tend to agree with him on most issues.
The whole identity thing is playing into the hands of islamists. "Don't attack my identity dhimmis it's salamiphobic"
If your child is under 7 and claiming the wrong gender then it's NOT gender confusion - it's greed. They see the other sex being favored and want that favor. They haven't yet learned about sex so they can't be confused about it. It's greed for wanting what someone else possesses.
Isn't that Marxism in a nutshell? Most of modern ideologies are based heavily on envy and greed. The whole victim hierarchy, the trans issue (with a tiny percentage of exceptions), the claim of systemic racism, DEI etc. It's all wanting what someone else possesses, whiteout having to actually work for it.
Bottom line: Not everyone grows out of it, and worryingly, these children in grown-ups' bodies are taking over society.
There are many mirrors here in the “Agile” software development paradigm that has emerged over the last 2 decades.
A overwhelming focus on short term goals, production of software above any other consideration, devaluation of forethought, forward planning and documentation.
I find it interesting that this paradigm has emerged and embedded itself into the epistemology of the vast majority of IT projects.
Wooow, goes w a feeling I have that some of this is unconscious reaction to structural worries combined w/ lacking intellect or privilege to cope - higher costs o everything, easier to lose opportunities for having opinions, an oncoming president who wants a dictatorship... etc
Preparing to have nothing and brave an onslaught...
Was a good introduction to Justified True Belief.
40:32 - there is actually a lot of strong data that supports the harm of same sex ‘marriage’ upon society; & even more foundational is what is marriage and why is marriage promoted by nations/ govmts throughout history.. the foundational reason removes any reason/ motive/ desire of a genuine/ rational govmt to every even consider supporting/ acknowledging same sex unions in Law (irregardless if such govmts have no laws prohibiting sexual relations of same sex individuals (though, this would also eventually be outlawed due to STD’s growing, as would adultery & sex outside of marriage).
1:28:20 I notice a lot of atheists are woke, but I also notice a lot of Christians are woke. Wokism and Christianity are not mutually exclusive. I’m an anti-woke atheist myself. I appreciate Peter and James Lindsay and Michael Shermer because 90+ percent of people I agree with politically are “believers” and they often crap on atheists as if we’re all woke weirdos. Even Dave Smith and Dave Rubin went from being outspoken non-woke atheists to “believers” but with no revelation and no refutation of their solid arguments, etc, then go on to crap on atheists the same way, as if they don’t know the logical reasons they themselves were atheists 5 minutes ago.
woke is the natural extension of western culture's obsession with freedom and rights. An obsession with freedom and rights will necessary devolve into the freedom and rights to do whatever degenerate thing your body evolutionarily desires.
So nice to see and hear “reason” and emphatically rationalized thought, might, and should be our new raison d’être...
A question is a micro aggression🙄 omg That is the reality we live in now
Great conversation, needs more views, so here’s a comment for the algorithm.
1:38:55 “We are made in the image of God”, that is the fundamental cornerstone of the faith. Belief in that is what everything else that means anything is built on; lack of belief in that is where everything starts to crumble…
PB has been a guest on a number of Christian's programs recently. I hope he is coming around to, at least, respect Christians. Clearly he has seen the benefits of Christianity on culture. But he seems to be one of the last red-pilled atheist that is still rather demining and sarcastic when he speaks of anyone of faith. Thanks for having him on!
1:13:33 His first thought is always, "Jesus walked on water".
Peter realizes the structure of religion is important for society but also realizes many take religion too far. I think he’s going to realize there isn’t another system that will work as well as Christianity though
@@brianmeen2158 I think you're right. It has been interesting to watch his journey.
@@brianmeen2158 plenty of systems will work better than christianity. The problem is you need to get rid of western culture/ideology, which is basically the source of all evil in order to arrive there.
I'm yet to be convinced. I think he is low in trait agreeableness AND in trait openness.
He has a blank where others see a kaleidoscope.
It's like explaining literature to a sports jock. Even if he were able to put to bed his own dogma about materialism, I'm not sure he has the psychological 'organs' to deal with metanarratives.
This is a r*cist statement, but I have met "Magyars" before who speak with this excited passion, and also have this blank where others would enter their inner world of imagination.
Unimaginative, I think that's Peter's weakness.
The United States spent more money than the other nine countries on the top 10 list. Russian is number 4 on that list. Trillions of dollars were spent in the last 10 years on the military industrial complex. Trillions of dollars will be spent over the next 10 years on the military industrial complex.. Social Security will run out in less than 10 years. Were using those funds on illegal immigrants without a voting on it. Why? When are Social Security trust fund runs out, there will be an automatic 18% to 25% reduction.
This is a great interview,
Is life just an episode of Fr. Ted ?
The absolute best explanation for all of the current crop of these things infesting our lives at the moment "the musings of ideologues". Now my go to explanation for this cancer multiplying in modern society.
We haven't had an "epidemic of cowardice." We are experiencing what 1970s "liberation" movements (which Boghossian supported) become once they have secured institutional power. Their "liberation" depends on others' subjugation. Their "oppression" transmutes into a desire to oppress others. All this was known and documented while Boghossian was still in short pants. He just chose to ignore it until it reached his office.
We all grow up. Or at least we should.
Kinda like Bill Ackman not speaking out against anti-racism’s white hatred until it morphed into anti-semitism.
goose-stepping thru the institutions
I’m still trying to figure out how anyone could believe the “Dog Park” paper. Who walks up to someone in a dog park and ask “Mind if I look at your dog’s genitals?”
... and this 10,000 times! You be become an infamous village idiot
I have just realized that I am not intelligent enough to keep up with Peter Boghossian
Not smart enough to be a research scientist but worked as a laboratory technician to a few top people. Medical research.
Seems to me that peer review is the key thing. My impression was that many tried to avoid this or do minimal review.
Consider Origen, the the first council of Nicaea AD325 the Council of Chalcedon AD451 and all the other councils, they were working out the Trinity. Some how, Jesus and his advice had to be Godly... that stood for quite a few years until Marxist theory. The problem is, if you personally follow Christ's advice, things tend to endure. We carry our cross, forgiving our enemies. It's good for society too as it honours marriage and encourages us to live in peace. Woke is a religion, we must see it for what it is: contradictive, lacking in clemency and destructive.
"The musings of ideologues."
I took on a PhD later in life and found the mind-bending ideological lenses through which you were obliged to look at your subject. (In my case translation).
Btw In the West our identity used to be based on what we DID - you see it in UK surnames - Smith - Thatcher - Baker etc.
and where we were from - places became surnames too. Mine comes from French 'Godwin de Kent' = Godwin of Kent. We were through our names linked to jobs and places - very much holding identity to them.
I worked in the Interlibrary loan department of a major university. I had 35000 potential clients, and 1/3 of all the material I requested was related to either socialism, gender studies or racism.
So in other words you were a neurological weapons dealer for domestic terror cells… yikes.
I seem to be one of the only people out of everyone i know, not trying to toot my own horn, to constantly question what I believe. And thus, I have changed my mind on several key viewpoints I've had throughout my life. What I see all around me are people who have the exact same viewpoints/opinions/beliefs they've had their whole life, 50+ yrs in some cases. What they seem to do, is cherry pick "evidence'' or even skew actual data to affirm their beliefs. I truly have always felt like what Peter was expressing, what does the evidence tell us? What are the outcomes the data ACTUALLY point to? And are they moral? Why or why aren't they moral? How does one argue that they are or are not?
Then again I've always been a really deep thinker, over analyzing everything to death. I doubt this even gets read lmao.
No, I completely understand you. I think their needs to be factored in humans need to belong.
"both of my kids are gay"
hmmmm... find anything strange or worth doing some analysis on there, Pete? What do you think of families who have multiple trans children?
Hos kids were probably in public school in Portland and were indoctrinated with homosexual stuff. The cultural cool aid of liberal public schools is highly toxic.
I first heard inclusion used in a good way, including disabled students into general swimming lessons. I did that before the term was used. I signed up my son with autism into regular swim lessons with his brother. They both enjoyed the classes, but his brother advanced. My son with Autism would not put his face in the water, so he couldn't get out of the level 1 class.
What about disabled Presidents?
inclusion is when you get kicked out of your swim club you've been in for half your life because you have a proper moral conscience and refuse to kneel down to western woke evil
I had saved this to "watch later" because I knew it would tax my brain cells. Finally watched 7 months later because it's a slow day on the 'Tubes. Someone should take an MRI of my brain right now. I'm off to take a nap. 😴
Another excellent if scary input Dad. How do we break this toxicity particularly in mainstream media, education, particularly higher education, corporate life. We are making ourselves extremely vulnerable to external despots e.g Putin and making it all the more likely that we encourage one of our own such as Hitler or Stalin
"The principal of reciprocity"
Do unto others as you will have them do unto you? 😂
Amazing and so thought provoking! Just one thing: "It is incumbent upon you and ME" not "It is incumbent upon you and I". In this case it is an objective pronoun, not subjective... Thank you!
Love you guys. Can you plod a little more?
What an interesting and wonderful conversation, thank you both for trying to get closer to " the truth" ! I thought that the idea may be true: God made human and humand created religion.
Addressed to both Peter and Dad, where did the concepts of right and wrong come from? Or the respect for the elderly? I believe the San Koi, had both and even make a prayer of forgiveness when killing prey for the village. Was that instictive? Or a form of spirituality at one with the universe....
i use an epistemology of motivation technique where i lay out a claim on a grid of T/F and Pro/Con. if P then how does it benefit you and how does it harm you and also for -P.
this i think helps flesh out the hidden motivations people have for beliefs OTHER THAN the desire for truth which i think is not a very high priority for most people.
Part of my humility is understanding that what has worked for 2000 years has some validity by virtue of its persistence. Evidence on some issues is subject to being over insufficient time scale. For example not pushing sexual deviations to the outside may take 3 generations to play out and be very hard to isolate.
We need to build a new system outside of the corrupt, corporate captured one. It can’t be saved, it is like a late stage cancer that is killing our country. We need local healthcare “clubs” or possibly under the guise of religious or charitable organizations. I think those groups are afforded certain protections and rights but I’m not sure. What went on in American hospitals during the plandemic was absolutely criminal. We need places that sick people can go to actually get healed, not poisoned, for an affordable price.
@drpeterboghossian no one wants to be nudged towards something that’s benign. ‘Religions’ provide a seemingly comprehensive framework to deal with the world; there are genuine problems that people face, and genuine religions to give answers. The problem with defending western civilization and its foundations and then de facto assuming that it makes white people or the patriarchy ‘in the clear’ from attacks from the untethered left is that it overlooks corruption and power plays (which the left exalts) that western institutions have either flirted with or embraced. Sam Harris just did a podcast with Anne Applebaum about the dangers of the US slipping towards looking like an autocracy. Is Trump by accident? Why the hell was Hunter on the board of a Ukrainian energy company? Religions, and importantly worldviews and convictions need to have internal consistency- western institutions suffer from corruption which we need to have the courage to correct. 1:26:29
On gay marriage, what about how far we have slid since the allowance of it? Also, the stats on abuse?
Don't get your point about gay marriage?
01:38:00 - R vs. K Selection Theory
(1)
"If you think you've found the truth you don't seek it"
"The gate-keepers of reason have all fallen"
In centuries to come, Boghossian will be mined for quotes.
(2)
I disagree with Boghossian on somethings:
- gay marriage. OK, for you to call yourself gay, and OK to declare you're "married". But, ... the institution of marriage is established and subsidized (tax breaks) because it enables better child rearing. That's why we value marriage. Gays don't rear kids, apart from a tiny minority of lesbians. BTW: aren't most lesbians themselves, childless?
- 'climate change'. I was shocked a few years ago to see armies of ex-new atheists, 'critical thinkers', and kow-towing to the climate hysteria psychopathology.
I think Peter Boghossian is the best philosopher working today. A gem.
(3)
PS: "The Epistemology of Democracy", by Elizabeth Anderson. 2006. It that the journal article PB cited?