That's an excellent outlook and counterpoint. It's not about "doesn't God want people to be happy?" It's about us saying "are you willing to die to your own desires for God?"
19:52 “You can have the Kingdom. You can inherit the Kingdom. BUT, if the cost is too much…we’ll just lower the asking price until we get people to buy.” WHAT. A. QUOTE.
We are not of the world so do not comform to the world but be transformed into the Lord Jesus image.Bell is a messanger for his father the devil a liar!
Imagine thinking the kingdom of God has to be earned by actions despite… a few things in the Bible saying otherwise. Your name is written in the sand, pray you get help removing the scales. ❤️
If it wasn’t for my pastor who showed me the word and led me to encounters with Jesus I would have never been freed from homosexuality. I wouldn’t have my Godly husband and beautiful children. Rob Bell is in serious danger when answering to God. He has no answer for people who are perishing
I'm a 46 yo woman, separated from my husband. I've been bi my whole life. I think I'm postmenopausal and the last few years all I could think of was sex. I started watching porn here and there, playing sex games, and my desires got more intense and also perverse. I didn't act on any of it but it was tough not fulfilling any of my desires.... About 6 months or so ago, I finally accepted Jesus as my savior and humble myself to Him. It was pretty instantaneous that all those strong desires and consuming thoughts were just gone. It wasn't even a goal of mine... I thought what I was going through was just a normal part of aging fire women.
I had the pleasure (or displeasure) of meeting and talking with Bell my freshman year in college. At the time he was pushing emergent church movement theology. He was invited into our theology class as a guest speaker when our professor had us read his book. Boy was that an interesting class. I ended up “failing” that class by the professor, had the dean overturn my grade, and the professor ended up being asked to leave the university all in the span of 2 weeks.
@@larryjake7783 He claimed that I did not conform to the grading rubric standards which required the majority of the paper to articulate the major points within Bell’s book that were valid arguments and then we needed to discuss why we agree with those points and how we can further those ideas in the rest of the paper. Considering what Bell believed (believes) it was hard for me to agree with any part of the book and I stated as much. Instead of writing a paper that required me to conform to a singular track of thinking and agreement. I wrote a paper that agreed that we were created, and that was about all I agreed with. In his book he talked about multiple ways to heaven primarily through Jesus but not the only way. I used the rest of the paper as a rebuttal to the book and his points. Scripture references were used as well as exegetical analysis. Dot the i’s and cross the t’s. Overall, he failed me because I didn’t abide by the rubric and agree with the arguments made.
'But you are calling their salvation into question just because there is observable unrepentant sin in their life." Yes, that is literally part of the gospel.
@arcguardian Indeed, salvation is brought about by the Holy Spirit removing our heart of stone and replacing it with a heart of flesh so that we might be able to love God and His Word.
During the most replayed segment, I think Bell realizes that he's lost the debate as you can see him get super defensive and even use profanity which is the biggest sign that he's frustrated. Andrew did a great job as it's pretty clear Bell isn't used to getting challenged like this.
Yes, the curse is cursing him. Terrible to be so knowledgeable and be putting your own fine mind against the infinite mind and Word of God Almighty. So glad this one pastor was not afraid to debate him.
It’s not which interpretation is ‘correct’ but which is most plausible given the standard and reasonable parameters. This removes the subjectivity. “So what would you say the numerical probability is for your interpretation? 10%, 90%? How do you justify that number?” We are morally obligated to submit to what seems to us most plausible, not what is most convenient.
My youth group used to play Bell videos. When I went to a Christian college the professors in religion classes would play his videos too. I always knew he was a wolf. I said I didn’t trust him during discussion times and people laughed me off. The professor said “I think you are just getting caught up on something that isn’t there.” Many of those that laughed at me are now apostate and that professor is an actual heretic.
So very sad. Rob Bell has mislead so many…and the trajectory is so often a complete abandonment of the faith. What starts out as, “You’re just misinterpreting scripture”, ends up in rejecting the entire Bible. Jesus said “Be careful how you hear, with the measure you use, it will be measured to you-and even more. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.” When you hear only the parts you want to hear, what you choose to measure out for yourself will not have to be taken from you, it simply cannot stand by itself. When you allow yourself to pick and choose the parts of the Bible you will apply to your life, you have disrupted the entire foundation. You are building a “house” on your feelings and the culture…which are ever-changing. The truth does not change. It is a firm foundation. And it will stand. As Paul said in Romans 3:4, “…Let God be true, and every man a liar.” It’s only going to get more and more unpopular to stand on the Truth of God’s word. Fight the good fight, finish the race, keep the faith, there is a crown of glory waiting for all who do that…for all who long for His appearing. Lord, May the lost be found, May the Church be one, May the prodigals come home, and May the progressives repent. Amen🙏❤️🙌
@@fisherman9435 Rob Bell is like the Christian version of those cheap aftermarket Nintendo 64 controllers we bought at Walmart back in the day. They looked cool, but fell apart when it was time to beat Bowser.
lol, fat chance. still, nice to see some unrest in the pews we atheists love to see you argue over what god really said, every time you do an angel turns queer.
Funny stuff - all atheists live in peace and unity - the entirety of the 20th century is all evidence to the contrary. NATO existed to protect the socialist of Western Europe. Who were we protecting them from? Other SOCIALISTS.
@fisherman9435 It's because those who twist the Bible aren't really Bible believers. It's simple. How can I believe something and twist it at the same time? God bless you, have a great day and may Jesus bless you and your family all the days of your life
And that's what all these "churches" do, "interpret" the word that fits their way then get people who want to think they are Christian to believe them. What's crazy to me, is God said it would be like this. That's what made me become born again grew up jehovah witness so i knew some didn't really believe but i knew some of the word but once i noticed that what God had said was coming true i instantly became a believer
@jbeard3390 If you've ever actually read the Bible, you'd know that's not true. Well, half true. We have many manuscripts going back to that time period in the original languages. The integrity of the bible is solid. Now, where you are right is that there ARE some translations that are bad. That's why it's best to go back to the oldest sources you can get and understand them. The King James version is widely regarded amongst many denominations. The Catholic Church is actually one of the biggest offenders to the point where I refuse to acknowledge them as christian.
Rob Bell was a master at not only not answering questions, but doing so in such a way that no one noticed. To date I don't know one modern progressive who does this more unnoticably than Rob Bell. Please do more Rob Bell content. I think it could be incredibly beneficial for everyone.
To find out Rob's ultimate position, at the end of the conversation, I would ask him, "If you were standing before God, and He asked you to answer whether same sex romance is ok, and with the wrong answer, I will immediately cast you into hell," I think he would say it's wrong.
I remember reading Love Wins by Rob Bell and recall that that was something infuriating to me. Most of the book was just him asking questions that he didn’t bother to answer.
He's also really good at writing. Most of his books consist of short easy to read chapters that manage to convey deep and meaningful theology in a way that pretty much anyone can grasp. For example, his book Incomparable is probably the best way for an English-speaker to gain an emotional understanding of just how rich the character and attributes of God are.
@@stephengray1344 I've been meaning to read more of his writing. I've seen so much of his video content, but I'm certain I would love to see him cover a topic in more depth than a video could.
What's interesting about this discussion is that on this side of history, everyone now knows that Bell no longer claims he is a Christian but an agnostic human secularist...
Ignorance comes in all shapes and sizes. Bell is one of them. Atheism is another. Just because God forbids homosexuality means that Bell would stop believing in him. How utterly ridiculous. It's not like parents stop being your parents if they say something you don't like.
I didn't know that, but I can relate. I first leaned to progressive 'Christianity', then went Agnostic and, finally, Atheist. I've since came back to the flock, but I see it now as a logical progression. Let's pray for those who have been deceived.
So many people will stand before Jesus and have him say to them “I never knew you”. Making an excuse doesn’t cut it for Jesus. We have only one we need to be truly accountable to. Seek truth! Don’t make excuses for ANY SIN!
I was a huge Rob Bell fan as a young disciple and early in my ministry career. I was heartbroken when "Love Wins" was released. I had not seen this video. Thank you for your work. I use it for teaching opportunities with my congregation on a regular basis.
Brother what an excellent reminder of how one of the gifts of the Spirit can help in these discussions. Patience with the person concerned even when you know they are avoiding the question. The truly patient will not get angry but continue putting them in a box until they have to answer one way or the other. I am humbled by this - as I often get angry when such devices are used but that is not the way of it. Yet another example of how doing it God's way is far more effective.
You’re right Nate, it is the same playbook for all liberal thought. “There are scholars on both sides” and “it’s just your interpretation”… are code words for “I relinquish my duty to establish my position based on scripture,” but I think we all know what’s really going on here. You can see it in Bell’s facial expressions. He knows that there is indeed a singular truth to this topic in scripture when it’s brought out comprehensively by Wilson, so all he can do is attempt to cloud the clear. That there is objective, knowable truth is what’s under attack here, which must be dealt with before specific arguments can have any impact. Once that pillar collapses the only options are to change your previously held view, or reject truth entirely in favor of a higher commitment.
first video I’ve seen of yours and you’re such a breath of fresh air. so many rely on emotion and rhetoric, completely dominating conversations. This was a wonderful analysis. God bless!
He got tired of trying to live by the Word and decided to carve out a new Jesus that is more... Worldly, down to earth, easy to get a long with, not so serious. One that can let you slide if you can't make it in the narrow way.
Thank you Nate for the informed video. I really appreciate the content you put out on your channel and the increased knowledge and wisdom it brings me. I'm already a subscriber, liked the video, and have shared with others. I know the Lord will provide increase to your ministry 🙏
He doesn't believe God wrote the Bible. He certain doesn't believe the morality of the Bible is from God. Culture is his morality. So what's that make his god?
Seen more and more of your content lately, and I'm happy to say I just subscribed. You are on to something here, and I'm thinking more people need to grab on to it. Thank you for your work and keep it up...the world and Christians as well need to hear more of this. May the Spirit continue to work through you.
I have a family member who is a JW, I've talked to her about Faith. One of the first things her and others like Murmans want to do is start talking about as you say.. "other things". The lesson I'm taking away from here is this. Let them speak and finish, be kind, and then ask the Q. again. Thanks so much for your vids. May the Lord Bless you Brother.
You asked “what would you have asked Rob Bell”. Right at the end, Rob Bell attempted to say (paraphrasing) “but what about people who are worried and anxious over social media and yet we are called not to worry“. I believe I would’ve called him out on that and simply stated that most people who are caught up in anxiety will acknowledge that scripture speaks against it and they would not attempt to say that it is OK. They would acknowledge they have a weakness there and need to continue to grow in faith and trust in God and through sanctification by the Spirit become less worried and less anxious. The difference with homosexuality is that they are living an unrepentant lifestyle.
You’re changing the world in such a positive way I mean it. One person at a time you are passing on Godly wisdom I thank you for being obedient to your calling
When someone gives me an answer that isn't the answer to the question I asked, I like to say "that's an interesting answer to a question I never asked you! So could you restate my question before you answer, so I know that you heard me?"
I remember the rise of Rob Bell when I was in middle school/high school with Love Wins and NOOMA. I instinctively didn't trust it then, but couldn't really articulate why. I wish this type of analysis was available to me then. On that, I thought you should know this video is the one that got me to join your Patreon.
I found your channel from your woke TikTok rebuttals, which are great! This is my favorite video so far. Thank you for the great content and for the work you are doing for the body of Christ. Got a sub from me!
Thanks, "Narrating The Conversation" is excellent way of getting one back on the path; also enjoy the 'show transcript' which helps those, me in particular, who have hearing difficulty.
One of the things i noticed "debating" online with strangers is the level of dishonest is so high that i wonder whether they are acting like this or just are low IQ.
A question I would have regarding human experience is: What validity can we hold to the human experience that's not persuaded or influenced by media's propaganda? Or How can we validate our own experience and experience of others if we struggle with critical thinking leaving us with ambiguous conclusions?
“Who gets to decide what is and isn’t destructive.” ☠️ God gets to draw that line. Well said. Same problem since the beginning. Man trying to change God’s design.
After his comments around 33:00 I think the better question is, why can’t he answer? He’s not being pressed in an unkind or unloving way he’s simply being asked questions. The only expectation is that there is a reason rooted in scripture for why he believes what he believes. The only one calling into question his salvation is him, he even says as much. Suddenly he turned into a victim instead of answering the question. This is a master class in avoiding the tough questions.
Excellent video. I believe in prayer prior to such a conversation because there are several factors. Demonic spiritual deception. Unwillingness to accept the truth. Clouded thinking. Basing conclusions on anything but the word of God Emotional hurts and bitterness.
The look on Rob's face at 11:47 is amazing. You can see in his eyes that 'Oh no, this dude knows his stuff and is going to try and make me say the thing I don't want to say'
I cant stand when people say that we "have" to admit something because of the current culture. The only thing we have to do is live obediently to God! If people are unwilling to do so, then they are rejecting God. It is not our job to make it easier for them to do so.
33:10 the reason why so many people don't want to be part of the church has everything to do with choosing their own way over God's way. Then they turn and blame faithful Christians to justify their rejection of the Gospel and God's Kingdom.
Wow, great video and I'm not sure I could do as good of a job. I personally am praying for coolness in the heat of a debate. I believe that shows more of Jesus love than the right answers. The look on Bell's face when he was placed with cool respectful tough questions to answer. I'm impressed and passionate about working intentionally on my demeanor during a debate.
The irony is that both massively well known pastors of Mars Hill (Rob Bell and Mark Driscoll) congregations ended up departing their churches in large part because thus felt they were unchallengeable. Contreversy followed them both. They both were challenged on radio shows and nearly lost it by responding in utter disbelief of the questions they were asked. One departed to the "left". The other departed to the "right." Very sad.
It is a great example of how to respectfully communicate and maintain my loyalty to the truth and Christ. I think Mr.Bell is too wrapped up in fear of offending his friends that he is willing to offend Christ.
I would have asked Bell if an open relationship is acceptable to Christ. When he says "no" I would ask him how he is so sure, at which point he'll finally reach for the Bible.
Rob Bell is a dangerous man. He knows the Bible well enough to lead ppl astray. This is a great example of why we need to read and study the Bible for ourselves. It’s not about what we want. It’s about what God wants if we have truly surrendered to Him.
Nate! Love your Wise Disciple channel and that you've brought Rob Bell back from the grave. His teachings are incredibly destructive and heretical, but thankfully we know the voice of the Shepherd!
It’s ALMOST as though you can spot the heretic based on which religious figure has been on Oprah and whom she’s endorsed. Also, Nate, I’m in a Christian Hardcore band. Let’s talk theology and hardcore sometime eh?
There is a very simple point that refutes any progressive argument about this topic Marriage! The simple questions to respond to Mr Bell would be to 1: Define marriage first. It's clearly defined in the old testament, and Jesus defined it in the new testament And 2nd, to ask him if sexual activity outside of marriage is a sin? Marriage is the simple way to refute any argument, like the most common ones of "Jesus didn't refer to gay sex" or "Paul was only referring to pagans because there wasn't gay couples back then"
Certainly elements of being ready to give an answer while simultaneously not having something prepared to say but relying on the prodding of Le Saint-Esprit.
Every time someone says “Jesus never talked about Homosexuality” (which is every time) I go straight to Jesus prohibitions on sexual immorality and ask, since He didn’t qualify His terms, what would be the obvious meaning for a Jewish Rabbi to a group of religious Jews? Could there be any hint that Jesus overturned that meaning? They typically fall apart quickly. Most Christians won’t encounter people like Bell, who will never answer a question and is so dogmatic in their ambiguity.
Exactly. I like to use the example of traffic laws. If a cop tells you to obey all traffic laws, then you go and run a red light, and then the same cop pulls you over and said that he told you not to run red lights, can you then retort and state that he never said to not run red lights but to obey traffic laws?
@@Ironica82So does that mean people need to stop eating shellfish, wearing mixed fabric, only beating slaves near death, ect. There is a whole list of ridiculous rules that I guarantee you don't follow because they are ridiculous. If you claim I'm cherry picking, then the only reason you claim homosexuality is immoral is because it is said to be so along with those other stupid rules.
@@Ironica82 Sure, and they are changed all the time to fit current societies. For example, in most modern western countries, homosexuals can now get married. When is Bible 2? The first one can really use some updating from the all knowing, unchanging God that created it.
@@FarmingdaneoPlease don't be deceived. Exodus 20 lists all kinds of immoral, deviant behavior that is still to be refrained from today. God's rules were and are not ridiculous, some were meant for a time for the Jewish nation to remain holy enough to bring the Messiah in order to bless the whole world. There is so much to read and study. God created male and female. ♡
So what if they reject Christ and God over this issue? There will always be people that reject God and Christ over a myriad of reasons. It is not our place to convert people. GOD CONVERTS PEOPLE THROUGH CONVICTION. We are only responsible for giving people the TRUTH, period. God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are in charge of all the rest. And sometimes, that means people WON'T accept.
1 Timothy 4:1-2 "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron."
I attended Mars Hill in Grandville from 2002-2010. This is really a telling look into both the error in Bell's theology and the logical/rhetorical tactics employed to evade hard questions.
You took the words right out of my mouth. "What's at stake?" If the liberal interpretations of scripture on homosexuality are mistaken, then there are souls at stake. Satan delights in this idea of false righteousness while Christians are desperate to bring them back to Christ, not out of hate but out of love, because to deny yourself and trust in Christ is to be free from the burdons of sin.
Friend just recommended this channel and really enjoying it. If Rob Bell were to want to celebrate communion together I would have to decline. I am familiar enough with him over the last 15 years since Velvet Elvis to not be convinced that he is a born-again believer. Of course I might be wrong but he dances around the truth like a master he makes me nauseous.
In around 2007 or so, a deacon at my church showed the congregation a few Rob Bell Nooma videos over a couple of months. I can't remember the topics but I do remember feeling his way of talking about the Gospel was quite cool and interesting. The church seemed to love it too. Until one day we heard he was saying Hell didn't exist. I was a teenager who wasn't Saved back then but alarm bells (no pun intended) started ringing over so-called progressive Christianity
I went to Rob Bell's church years ago in Grandville, MI called Mars Hill. He didn't say any of this stuff back then but you could tell he was mostly charisma.
Hi from the UK. I've heard Andrew Wilson teach in person and I think he is an excellent theology and speaker on tough topics. He and the church he is part of did a series on big objections where he unpacks this in greater details - I highly recommend it.
This is why the Scriptures are so important, humans will always weasel their way out of sin by saying it's not sin but you can also follow the destructive nature of these "non-sins" and see they steal, kill and destroy.
I loved Rob Bell's 'Everything is Spiritual' when I was a Baby Christian and wouldn't have known there was a problem until I saw him talk with Oprah and something in The Spirit warned me. When I first read The Bible through, it blew my mind - here were God's thoughts and actions, what He decrees as Right or Wrong and who people like Rob Bell were really working for. I pray for Rob, that The LORD would awaken him and use him powerfully for spreading The Gospel of Truth xx
i agree some of what you find in Leviticus is laws specific to Israel. However that falls mostly in regard to how you deal with certain acts. But when God says something is an abomination, he is not telling Israel how to legislate a reaction to some action. He is laying out his real thoughts on that action.
Bell thinks we've come to an enlightened period but in fact we are reverting back to the evil times as in the time of Noah, a thing Jesus told us would happen.
Right at the beginning....Rob Bell flat out states "I am for sin"... Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
I'm an alcoholic. Things go horribly wrong when (if) I decide to include alcohol in my social/private calendar. Other people suffer, when I drink alcohol. People like my two ex-wives. My children. That's their problem- right? Alcohol is legal, and "everybody does it." It's not fair, that I can't pound back those delicious beverages (like some of my friends do) and go through this life without the "benefits" of alcohol. What if I decide to lock myself in the house, and keep it to myself? It won't hurt a soul. Right? WRONG. My disobedience would "spider out" and create problems which can only be seen through the lens of The Holy Spirit. I could expound on this, but hopefully you get my gist. Two consenting adults, embracing homo-sexuality? That hurts no one, and God has surely understood that times have changed. God is relaxing his hard stance against homosexuality. We are more "enlightened" about what God REALLY means, regarding the scriptures. Right? Folks, I have no idea why some people are seemingly born homo-sexual. I also have no idea why I was born an alcoholic. All I know is, when I demand that others simply accept me, as God made me, that bird won't fly.
Whenever you appeal to human experience over the Word of God, you've already fallen. When you work so hard to justify what the Bible obviously calls sin, chances are you are deeply involved in that sin or have been and don't want to deal with it. Rob is a false teacher and a deceiver. Thank you for breaking down this video. May God be glorified and His Word always be our standard.
This interview, along with many others I've seen, is the reason I find it difficult to do one on one conversations. My stepson, 22 in college and still living at home, is gay. I've never brought up his lifestyle, never treated him different, always addressed him as the MAN that God created him to be and just showed him respect overall. I had an opportunity to share the gospel with him one day, then he began to talk about his lifestyle. I then began to ask simple straight forward questions that he would never answer directly. I put him to a simple test, just so I would know who I was dealing with for sure since he spoke about reality and if our everyday life was our true reality and it could all be fake who knows. So, I asked, if I got up from this table, went in the room and changed from the black hat I'm wearing to a gray one and came and sat back down, if someone asked you to give an account of what I just did, could you give a factual account of what happened? His response, how do I know that what you just did actually happened. It could all just be an alternate state beyond where we truly are. It was then I realized who and what I was dealing with. There's more to the story as far as dialogue, but that conversation challenged my patience. When people deflect, run or avoid answering directly, it challenges me on every level because I can never really make the point and get them to follow honestly. So, I applaud those who have the patience to deal with those who use these tactics to run and hide so they don't have to be held accountable for speaking what they really know is true.
Nate would you be interested in using one or both of the following debates on Unbelievable: 1) Dr Douglas Groothuis & Randal Rouser, or 2) Todd Wilson and Marcia Montenegro? Both are amazing debates! #1 focuses upon the theology of progressivism and Rohr (Bell’s mentor, of sorts). And #2 demonstrates the use of the genetic Fallacy combined with pragmatism vs listening to factual evidence and following scripture. Thankful for your channel!
As someone who formerly lived a homosexual life. I would rather die alone than to give up Jesus.
That's an excellent outlook and counterpoint. It's not about "doesn't God want people to be happy?" It's about us saying "are you willing to die to your own desires for God?"
I hope you're able to find true happiness.
Keep the faith, my brother.
@Qualier That's why he said that he'd rather die alone than give up Jesus. It's because he has found true happiness.
You are on the narrow path to salvation. God bless you for your love of Jesus.
19:52
“You can have the Kingdom. You can inherit the Kingdom. BUT, if the cost is too much…we’ll just lower the asking price until we get people to buy.”
WHAT. A. QUOTE.
We are not of the world so do not comform to the world but be transformed into the Lord Jesus image.Bell is a messanger for his father the devil a liar!
That is what Noah was told about food.
Quite a far cry from count cost, take up your cross, and follow Him, isn't it?
@@UnconventionalReasoning???
Imagine thinking the kingdom of God has to be earned by actions despite… a few things in the Bible saying otherwise. Your name is written in the sand, pray you get help removing the scales. ❤️
Bottom line is Bell is telling people their sin is not sin and they don't need to repent.
If it wasn’t for my pastor who showed me the word and led me to encounters with Jesus I would have never been freed from homosexuality. I wouldn’t have my Godly husband and beautiful children. Rob Bell is in serious danger when answering to God. He has no answer for people who are perishing
The power of the word! So awesome.
ua-cam.com/users/shortsaiSiIWy3uBw?si=plebwGPNKOtfUVFB
Amen to hmaese
@@KonstantinosII troll much?
I'm a 46 yo woman, separated from my husband. I've been bi my whole life. I think I'm postmenopausal and the last few years all I could think of was sex. I started watching porn here and there, playing sex games, and my desires got more intense and also perverse. I didn't act on any of it but it was tough not fulfilling any of my desires.... About 6 months or so ago, I finally accepted Jesus as my savior and humble myself to Him. It was pretty instantaneous that all those strong desires and consuming thoughts were just gone. It wasn't even a goal of mine... I thought what I was going through was just a normal part of aging fire women.
I had the pleasure (or displeasure) of meeting and talking with Bell my freshman year in college. At the time he was pushing emergent church movement theology. He was invited into our theology class as a guest speaker when our professor had us read his book. Boy was that an interesting class. I ended up “failing” that class by the professor, had the dean overturn my grade, and the professor ended up being asked to leave the university all in the span of 2 weeks.
What was the justification to fail you?
@@larryjake7783 He claimed that I did not conform to the grading rubric standards which required the majority of the paper to articulate the major points within Bell’s book that were valid arguments and then we needed to discuss why we agree with those points and how we can further those ideas in the rest of the paper. Considering what Bell believed (believes) it was hard for me to agree with any part of the book and I stated as much. Instead of writing a paper that required me to conform to a singular track of thinking and agreement. I wrote a paper that agreed that we were created, and that was about all I agreed with. In his book he talked about multiple ways to heaven primarily through Jesus but not the only way. I used the rest of the paper as a rebuttal to the book and his points. Scripture references were used as well as exegetical analysis. Dot the i’s and cross the t’s. Overall, he failed me because I didn’t abide by the rubric and agree with the arguments made.
What university?
Well done!!
Why did they fail you?
'But you are calling their salvation into question just because there is observable unrepentant sin in their life." Yes, that is literally part of the gospel.
It's not a part of salvation. It can't be earned by "good" behavior or saying the "right"* phrase.
@arcguardian Indeed, salvation is brought about by the Holy Spirit removing our heart of stone and replacing it with a heart of flesh so that we might be able to love God and His Word.
@@arcguardian Without repentance there is no salvation. Acts 2:38 It is not about works but Bibical faith.
All will eventually repent because Christ is reconciling ALL THINGS to God.
@bobbymcglathery4468 what is repentance if not works? Serious question
Bell looked absolutely miserable. He knows his movement is on sinking sand.
Yeah he definitely looks uncomfortable throughout the whole thing lol
He keeps repeating himself over and over again. Like man up bell.
He is filled with rage. He is filled with pride. It's clear HIS view drives his faith--not Christ.
During the most replayed segment, I think Bell realizes that he's lost the debate as you can see him get super defensive and even use profanity which is the biggest sign that he's frustrated. Andrew did a great job as it's pretty clear Bell isn't used to getting challenged like this.
His curse is not only a sign of frustration but a sign of wickedness. He is here ONLY to deceive those he knows he can, from what I can tell.
@@AuraysTimelessChannel Agreed
Yes, the curse is cursing him.
Terrible to be so knowledgeable and be putting your own fine mind against the infinite mind and Word of God Almighty.
So glad this one pastor was not afraid to debate him.
It’s not which interpretation is ‘correct’ but which is most plausible given the standard and reasonable parameters. This removes the subjectivity. “So what would you say the numerical probability is for your interpretation? 10%, 90%? How do you justify that number?” We are morally obligated to submit to what seems to us most plausible, not what is most convenient.
The snake was not able to wiggle out the challenge.
My youth group used to play Bell videos. When I went to a Christian college the professors in religion classes would play his videos too. I always knew he was a wolf. I said I didn’t trust him during discussion times and people laughed me off. The professor said “I think you are just getting caught up on something that isn’t there.” Many of those that laughed at me are now apostate and that professor is an actual heretic.
People falling from the faith for the world and it's view. Satan is still deceiving many people in the colleges and churches today.
So very sad. Rob Bell has mislead so many…and the trajectory is so often a complete abandonment of the faith. What starts out as, “You’re just misinterpreting scripture”, ends up in rejecting the entire Bible. Jesus said “Be careful how you hear, with the measure you use, it will be measured to you-and even more. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.” When you hear only the parts you want to hear, what you choose to measure out for yourself will not have to be taken from you, it simply cannot stand by itself. When you allow yourself to pick and choose the parts of the Bible you will apply to your life, you have disrupted the entire foundation. You are building a “house” on your feelings and the culture…which are ever-changing. The truth does not change. It is a firm foundation. And it will stand. As Paul said in Romans 3:4, “…Let God be true, and every man a liar.”
It’s only going to get more and more unpopular to stand on the Truth of God’s word. Fight the good fight, finish the race, keep the faith, there is a crown of glory waiting for all who do that…for all who long for His appearing. Lord, May the lost be found, May the Church be one, May the prodigals come home, and May the progressives repent. Amen🙏❤️🙌
Bless God for protecting you.
I watched Nooma videos in a group setting and I wanted to barf 🤮
It’s a big problem in seminary’s today.
I would not want to attend a church where the pastor is as flimsy as Rob Bell. We need stronger leaders in the church
Flimsy ?
It’s his denial of scripture that’s the issue
@@fisherman9435 Rob Bell is like the Christian version of those cheap aftermarket Nintendo 64 controllers we bought at Walmart back in the day. They looked cool, but fell apart when it was time to beat Bowser.
lol, fat chance. still, nice to see some unrest in the pews we atheists love to see you argue over what god really said, every time you do an angel turns queer.
Funny stuff - all atheists live in peace and unity - the entirety of the 20th century is all evidence to the contrary.
NATO existed to protect the socialist of Western Europe. Who were we protecting them from?
Other SOCIALISTS.
@fisherman9435 It's because those who twist the Bible aren't really Bible believers. It's simple. How can I believe something and twist it at the same time?
God bless you, have a great day and may Jesus bless you and your family all the days of your life
19:39 Rob looks so... sad. Like, he knows he is wrong. He looks convicted... but he wants the approval of man.
His emotional appeal at the beginning of the debate can be answered pretty easily. We are not to conform to the ways of the world.
And that's what all these "churches" do, "interpret" the word that fits their way then get people who want to think they are Christian to believe them. What's crazy to me, is God said it would be like this. That's what made me become born again grew up jehovah witness so i knew some didn't really believe but i knew some of the word but once i noticed that what God had said was coming true i instantly became a believer
@jbeard3390 If you've ever actually read the Bible, you'd know that's not true. Well, half true. We have many manuscripts going back to that time period in the original languages. The integrity of the bible is solid. Now, where you are right is that there ARE some translations that are bad. That's why it's best to go back to the oldest sources you can get and understand them. The King James version is widely regarded amongst many denominations. The Catholic Church is actually one of the biggest offenders to the point where I refuse to acknowledge them as christian.
@@MisterRose90 which part of what i said isn't true?
@jbeard3390 your statement was a blanket statement made out of ignorance and hatred towards Christians and lacked nuance.
@MisterRose90 if that's what you got from what i said, then we understand the English language differently.
Rob Bell was a master at not only not answering questions, but doing so in such a way that no one noticed. To date I don't know one modern progressive who does this more unnoticably than Rob Bell. Please do more Rob Bell content. I think it could be incredibly beneficial for everyone.
To find out Rob's ultimate position, at the end of the conversation, I would ask him, "If you were standing before God, and He asked you to answer whether same sex romance is ok, and with the wrong answer, I will immediately cast you into hell," I think he would say it's wrong.
@@tonygivens6388he's going to be held accountable for deceiving people.
Agreed. This would equip the saints. We need to be wise as serpents and also innocent as doves in Christ.
I remember reading Love Wins by Rob Bell and recall that that was something infuriating to me. Most of the book was just him asking questions that he didn’t bother to answer.
Agreed
This was the first time I came across Andrew Wilson. Love that guy. He handles himself so well.
He's also really good at writing. Most of his books consist of short easy to read chapters that manage to convey deep and meaningful theology in a way that pretty much anyone can grasp. For example, his book Incomparable is probably the best way for an English-speaker to gain an emotional understanding of just how rich the character and attributes of God are.
@@stephengray1344 I've been meaning to read more of his writing. I've seen so much of his video content, but I'm certain I would love to see him cover a topic in more depth than a video could.
What's interesting about this discussion is that on this side of history, everyone now knows that Bell no longer claims he is a Christian but an agnostic human secularist...
Wait, what?
Ignorance comes in all shapes and sizes. Bell is one of them. Atheism is another.
Just because God forbids homosexuality means that Bell would stop believing in him. How utterly ridiculous.
It's not like parents stop being your parents if they say something you don't like.
I didn't know that, but I can relate. I first leaned to progressive 'Christianity', then went Agnostic and, finally, Atheist.
I've since came back to the flock, but I see it now as a logical progression. Let's pray for those who have been deceived.
This is the core of what Paul called “doctrines of demons”. Dangerous twisting of scripture to lead people away from Christ.
It's the only direction you can go once you start embracing progressive theology/hermeneutics
The church should never change for culture. The culture changes because of the church.
So many people will stand before Jesus and have him say to them “I never knew you”. Making an excuse doesn’t cut it for Jesus. We have only one we need to be truly accountable to. Seek truth! Don’t make excuses for ANY SIN!
I was a huge Rob Bell fan as a young disciple and early in my ministry career. I was heartbroken when "Love Wins" was released. I had not seen this video. Thank you for your work. I use it for teaching opportunities with my congregation on a regular basis.
Brother what an excellent reminder of how one of the gifts of the Spirit can help in these discussions. Patience with the person concerned even when you know they are avoiding the question. The truly patient will not get angry but continue putting them in a box until they have to answer one way or the other.
I am humbled by this - as I often get angry when such devices are used but that is not the way of it. Yet another example of how doing it God's way is far more effective.
Ah yes, at the end there, instead of answering the question, the stop picking on me defense.
You’re right Nate, it is the same playbook for all liberal thought. “There are scholars on both sides” and “it’s just your interpretation”… are code words for “I relinquish my duty to establish my position based on scripture,” but I think we all know what’s really going on here. You can see it in Bell’s facial expressions. He knows that there is indeed a singular truth to this topic in scripture when it’s brought out comprehensively by Wilson, so all he can do is attempt to cloud the clear. That there is objective, knowable truth is what’s under attack here, which must be dealt with before specific arguments can have any impact. Once that pillar collapses the only options are to change your previously held view, or reject truth entirely in favor of a higher commitment.
first video I’ve seen of yours and you’re such a breath of fresh air. so many rely on emotion and rhetoric, completely dominating conversations. This was a wonderful analysis. God bless!
He got tired of trying to live by the Word and decided to carve out a new Jesus that is more... Worldly, down to earth, easy to get a long with, not so serious. One that can let you slide if you can't make it in the narrow way.
"We can disentangle that another time" put a smile on my face. 😂 This was an awesome breakdown, thank you Nate!
Thank you Nate for the informed video. I really appreciate the content you put out on your channel and the increased knowledge and wisdom it brings me. I'm already a subscriber, liked the video, and have shared with others. I know the Lord will provide increase to your ministry 🙏
Idk how this Bell guy isnt afraid of God. He has to know what he is doing.
Because before he took these issues on he became a universalist where nobody goes to hell. He doesn’t believe the Bible is authoritative and inerrant.
He doesn't believe God wrote the Bible. He certain doesn't believe the morality of the Bible is from God. Culture is his morality. So what's that make his god?
I have a friend that sounds just like Bell. I'm going to listen several times before I have lunch with her in December.
@@TruthAboveAll08 just prayed for your preparation and conversation.
He isn’t a believer. He isn’t a Christian. Unbelievers have no fear of God.
I wonder what Becket Cook would say to Rob Bell. He’d be a great person to interview on your channel regarding this issue.
Mr Bells body language shouts that he knows better, in my humble opinion.
Not only does he know better but he HATES the truth. You can see the rage bubbling up and he used an expletive, displaying this clearly.
Seen more and more of your content lately, and I'm happy to say I just subscribed. You are on to something here, and I'm thinking more people need to grab on to it.
Thank you for your work and keep it up...the world and Christians as well need to hear more of this. May the Spirit continue to work through you.
Dang. Wilson was well ahead of the curb in how to respond to progressive Christianity. Well done!
I have a family member who is a JW, I've talked to her about Faith. One of the first things her and others like Murmans want to do is start talking about as you say.. "other things". The lesson I'm taking away from here is this. Let them speak and finish, be kind, and then ask the Q. again. Thanks so much for your vids. May the Lord Bless you Brother.
You asked “what would you have asked Rob Bell”. Right at the end, Rob Bell attempted to say (paraphrasing) “but what about people who are worried and anxious over social media and yet we are called not to worry“. I believe I would’ve called him out on that and simply stated that most people who are caught up in anxiety will acknowledge that scripture speaks against it and they would not attempt to say that it is OK. They would acknowledge they have a weakness there and need to continue to grow in faith and trust in God and through sanctification by the Spirit become less worried and less anxious. The difference with homosexuality is that they are living an unrepentant lifestyle.
Man, I remember that debate when it first happened. It's a classic!
Great video Nate. I truly appreciate your examination and breakdown.
Calling good what God calls sin, is sin. And this is coming from someone who deals with this particular sin struggle myself.
Thank God for your ministry. Recently, my grandson has been asking questions about this subject, because of what he is learning at school.
This was so good. I saw this episode in full a while back but it is nice to analyze both their arguments in detail. Great video!
You’re changing the world in such a positive way I mean it. One person at a time you are passing on Godly wisdom I thank you for being obedient to your calling
This was so good! I learned a lot about how to respond. Thank you! I am now a subscriber of your channel.
When someone gives me an answer that isn't the answer to the question I asked, I like to say "that's an interesting answer to a question I never asked you! So could you restate my question before you answer, so I know that you heard me?"
I remember the rise of Rob Bell when I was in middle school/high school with Love Wins and NOOMA. I instinctively didn't trust it then, but couldn't really articulate why. I wish this type of analysis was available to me then.
On that, I thought you should know this video is the one that got me to join your Patreon.
we need to pray for him and pastors like him. God bless them and open their eyes to the truth! amen.
I found your channel from your woke TikTok rebuttals, which are great! This is my favorite video so far. Thank you for the great content and for the work you are doing for the body of Christ.
Got a sub from me!
Thanks, "Narrating The Conversation" is excellent way of getting one back on the path; also enjoy the 'show transcript' which helps those, me in particular, who have hearing difficulty.
One of the things i noticed "debating" online with strangers is the level of dishonest is so high that i wonder whether they are acting like this or just are low IQ.
They are deceived. It's that simple. I'm sure SOME are trolling. But all are deceived.
I don't look eye to eye with Andrew Wilson on everything, but man, what a great defense of orthodoxy, love the guy.
Super thankful for your work!
So glad this channel exists and that Andrew didn't pull the punches. Great job all.
This was one of your best videos on learning and controlling the redirection attempts.
Excellent. Really helped me be prepared for this conversation. Thank you.
Bell: Established church position is wrong and should be questioned.
Also Bell: How dare you question my new position that I created?
A question I would have regarding human experience is: What validity can we hold to the human experience that's not persuaded or influenced by media's propaganda? Or How can we validate our own experience and experience of others if we struggle with critical thinking leaving us with ambiguous conclusions?
“Who gets to decide what is and isn’t destructive.” ☠️
God gets to draw that line. Well said. Same problem since the beginning. Man trying to change God’s design.
The definition of what sin is is absolutely important
After his comments around 33:00 I think the better question is, why can’t he answer? He’s not being pressed in an unkind or unloving way he’s simply being asked questions. The only expectation is that there is a reason rooted in scripture for why he believes what he believes. The only one calling into question his salvation is him, he even says as much. Suddenly he turned into a victim instead of answering the question. This is a master class in avoiding the tough questions.
Excellent video. I believe in prayer prior to such a conversation because there are several factors.
Demonic spiritual deception.
Unwillingness to accept the truth.
Clouded thinking. Basing conclusions on anything but the word of God
Emotional hurts and bitterness.
I love the question, "Is it a question of hermeneutics or exegesis?"
The look on Rob's face at 11:47 is amazing. You can see in his eyes that 'Oh no, this dude knows his stuff and is going to try and make me say the thing I don't want to say'
I cant stand when people say that we "have" to admit something because of the current culture. The only thing we have to do is live obediently to God! If people are unwilling to do so, then they are rejecting God. It is not our job to make it easier for them to do so.
33:10 the reason why so many people don't want to be part of the church has everything to do with choosing their own way over God's way. Then they turn and blame faithful Christians to justify their rejection of the Gospel and God's Kingdom.
Wow, great video and I'm not sure I could do as good of a job. I personally am praying for coolness in the heat of a debate. I believe that shows more of Jesus love than the right answers. The look on Bell's face when he was placed with cool respectful tough questions to answer. I'm impressed and passionate about working intentionally on my demeanor during a debate.
The irony is that both massively well known pastors of Mars Hill (Rob Bell and Mark Driscoll) congregations ended up departing their churches in large part because thus felt they were unchallengeable. Contreversy followed them both. They both were challenged on radio shows and nearly lost it by responding in utter disbelief of the questions they were asked. One departed to the "left". The other departed to the "right." Very sad.
It is a great example of how to respectfully communicate and maintain my loyalty to the truth and Christ. I think Mr.Bell is too wrapped up in fear of offending his friends that he is willing to offend Christ.
I would have asked Bell if an open relationship is acceptable to Christ. When he says "no" I would ask him how he is so sure, at which point he'll finally reach for the Bible.
Bold of you to assume he would say no
Rob Bell is a dangerous man. He knows the Bible well enough to lead ppl astray. This is a great example of why we need to read and study the Bible for ourselves. It’s not about what we want. It’s about what God wants if we have truly surrendered to Him.
Nate! Love your Wise Disciple channel and that you've brought Rob Bell back from the grave. His teachings are incredibly destructive and heretical, but thankfully we know the voice of the Shepherd!
You should do the debate that Matt Dillahunty rage quit after the opening statements.
It’s ALMOST as though you can spot the heretic based on which religious figure has been on Oprah and whom she’s endorsed.
Also, Nate, I’m in a Christian Hardcore band. Let’s talk theology and hardcore sometime eh?
Big ups to the interviewer with the accent, I didn’t catch his name, he asked great questions!
There is a very simple point that refutes any progressive argument about this topic
Marriage!
The simple questions to respond to Mr Bell would be to 1: Define marriage first. It's clearly defined in the old testament, and Jesus defined it in the new testament
And 2nd, to ask him if sexual activity outside of marriage is a sin?
Marriage is the simple way to refute any argument, like the most common ones of "Jesus didn't refer to gay sex" or "Paul was only referring to pagans because there wasn't gay couples back then"
Certainly elements of being ready to give an answer while simultaneously not having something prepared to say but relying on the prodding of Le Saint-Esprit.
He kept appealing to the world and the times we are in.
"Then let the world judge me because I stand with God."
“For I am the LORD, I change not” - Malachi 6a
God DOES NOT, WILL NOT change for “the culture”.
Every time someone says “Jesus never talked about Homosexuality” (which is every time) I go straight to Jesus prohibitions on sexual immorality and ask, since He didn’t qualify His terms, what would be the obvious meaning for a Jewish Rabbi to a group of religious Jews? Could there be any hint that Jesus overturned that meaning? They typically fall apart quickly. Most Christians won’t encounter people like Bell, who will never answer a question and is so dogmatic in their ambiguity.
Exactly. I like to use the example of traffic laws. If a cop tells you to obey all traffic laws, then you go and run a red light, and then the same cop pulls you over and said that he told you not to run red lights, can you then retort and state that he never said to not run red lights but to obey traffic laws?
@@Ironica82So does that mean people need to stop eating shellfish, wearing mixed fabric, only beating slaves near death, ect. There is a whole list of ridiculous rules that I guarantee you don't follow because they are ridiculous.
If you claim I'm cherry picking, then the only reason you claim homosexuality is immoral is because it is said to be so along with those other stupid rules.
@@Farmingdaneo Is there a difference between criminal laws, civil laws, and traffic laws?
@@Ironica82 Sure, and they are changed all the time to fit current societies. For example, in most modern western countries, homosexuals can now get married. When is Bible 2? The first one can really use some updating from the all knowing, unchanging God that created it.
@@FarmingdaneoPlease don't be deceived. Exodus 20 lists all kinds of immoral, deviant behavior that is still to be refrained from today. God's rules were and are not ridiculous, some were meant for a time for the Jewish nation to remain holy enough to bring the Messiah in order to bless the whole world. There is so much to read and study. God created male and female. ♡
So what if they reject Christ and God over this issue? There will always be people that reject God and Christ over a myriad of reasons.
It is not our place to convert people. GOD CONVERTS PEOPLE THROUGH CONVICTION.
We are only responsible for giving people the TRUTH, period. God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are in charge of all the rest. And sometimes, that means people WON'T accept.
Amen
That was great information! Thank you!
1 Timothy 4:1-2 "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron."
I attended Mars Hill in Grandville from 2002-2010. This is really a telling look into both the error in Bell's theology and the logical/rhetorical tactics employed to evade hard questions.
gotta say, your editing this video is great
So much can be said and I'll only say Malachi 3:6 NKJV
“For I am the Lord, I do not change" malachi 3.6.NKJV
You took the words right out of my mouth. "What's at stake?"
If the liberal interpretations of scripture on homosexuality are mistaken, then there are souls at stake. Satan delights in this idea of false righteousness while Christians are desperate to bring them back to Christ, not out of hate but out of love, because to deny yourself and trust in Christ is to be free from the burdons of sin.
Rob Bell looked angry at the end. He was exposed.
Friend just recommended this channel and really enjoying it. If Rob Bell were to want to celebrate communion together I would have to decline. I am familiar enough with him over the last 15 years since Velvet Elvis to not be convinced that he is a born-again believer. Of course I might be wrong but he dances around the truth like a master he makes me nauseous.
In around 2007 or so, a deacon at my church showed the congregation a few Rob Bell Nooma videos over a couple of months. I can't remember the topics but I do remember feeling his way of talking about the Gospel was quite cool and interesting. The church seemed to love it too. Until one day we heard he was saying Hell didn't exist. I was a teenager who wasn't Saved back then but alarm bells (no pun intended) started ringing over so-called progressive Christianity
Bell is answering with every single squirm and all of his body language screaming “I know it’s really sinful, but I’m trying to sell books dawg”.
24:18….right there. Rob states, “That doesn’t make any sense to ME”. There’s the issue right there.
I went to Rob Bell's church years ago in Grandville, MI called Mars Hill. He didn't say any of this stuff back then but you could tell he was mostly charisma.
Hi from the UK. I've heard Andrew Wilson teach in person and I think he is an excellent theology and speaker on tough topics. He and the church he is part of did a series on big objections where he unpacks this in greater details - I highly recommend it.
This is why the Scriptures are so important, humans will always weasel their way out of sin by saying it's not sin but you can also follow the destructive nature of these "non-sins" and see they steal, kill and destroy.
I loved Rob Bell's 'Everything is Spiritual' when I was a Baby Christian and wouldn't have known there was a problem until I saw him talk with Oprah and something in The Spirit warned me. When I first read The Bible through, it blew my mind - here were God's thoughts and actions, what He decrees as Right or Wrong and who people like Rob Bell were really working for. I pray for Rob, that The LORD would awaken him and use him powerfully for spreading The Gospel of Truth xx
Have you ever done a video on debate etiquette and structure? I think that would be interesting.
i agree some of what you find in Leviticus is laws specific to Israel. However that falls mostly in regard to how you deal with certain acts. But when God says something is an abomination, he is not telling Israel how to legislate a reaction to some action. He is laying out his real thoughts on that action.
“That’s a great question….I’m not going to answer it” 😂
Bell thinks we've come to an enlightened period but in fact we are reverting back to the evil times as in the time of Noah, a thing Jesus told us would happen.
Filling the church pews is not our responsibility. The Holy Spirit does the drawing, not Bell’s talent in reinterpreting scripture.
Right at the beginning....Rob Bell flat out states "I am for sin"...
Malachi 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
I'm an alcoholic. Things go horribly wrong when (if) I decide to include alcohol in my social/private calendar. Other people suffer, when I drink alcohol. People like my two ex-wives. My children. That's their problem- right? Alcohol is legal, and "everybody does it." It's not fair, that I can't pound back those delicious beverages (like some of my friends do) and go through this life without the "benefits" of alcohol. What if I decide to lock myself in the house, and keep it to myself? It won't hurt a soul. Right? WRONG. My disobedience would "spider out" and create problems which can only be seen through the lens of The Holy Spirit. I could expound on this, but hopefully you get my gist. Two consenting adults, embracing homo-sexuality? That hurts no one, and God has surely understood that times have changed. God is relaxing his hard stance against homosexuality. We are more "enlightened" about what God REALLY means, regarding the scriptures. Right? Folks, I have no idea why some people are seemingly born homo-sexual. I also have no idea why I was born an alcoholic. All I know is, when I demand that others simply accept me, as God made me, that bird won't fly.
Whenever you appeal to human experience over the Word of God, you've already fallen. When you work so hard to justify what the Bible obviously calls sin, chances are you are deeply involved in that sin or have been and don't want to deal with it. Rob is a false teacher and a deceiver. Thank you for breaking down this video. May God be glorified and His Word always be our standard.
This interview, along with many others I've seen, is the reason I find it difficult to do one on one conversations. My stepson, 22 in college and still living at home, is gay. I've never brought up his lifestyle, never treated him different, always addressed him as the MAN that God created him to be and just showed him respect overall. I had an opportunity to share the gospel with him one day, then he began to talk about his lifestyle. I then began to ask simple straight forward questions that he would never answer directly. I put him to a simple test, just so I would know who I was dealing with for sure since he spoke about reality and if our everyday life was our true reality and it could all be fake who knows. So, I asked, if I got up from this table, went in the room and changed from the black hat I'm wearing to a gray one and came and sat back down, if someone asked you to give an account of what I just did, could you give a factual account of what happened? His response, how do I know that what you just did actually happened. It could all just be an alternate state beyond where we truly are. It was then I realized who and what I was dealing with.
There's more to the story as far as dialogue, but that conversation challenged my patience. When people deflect, run or avoid answering directly, it challenges me on every level because I can never really make the point and get them to follow honestly. So, I applaud those who have the patience to deal with those who use these tactics to run and hide so they don't have to be held accountable for speaking what they really know is true.
Nate would you be interested in using one or both of the following debates on Unbelievable: 1) Dr Douglas Groothuis & Randal Rouser, or 2) Todd Wilson and Marcia Montenegro?
Both are amazing debates! #1 focuses upon the theology of progressivism and Rohr (Bell’s mentor, of sorts). And #2 demonstrates the use of the genetic Fallacy combined with pragmatism vs listening to factual evidence and following scripture.
Thankful for your channel!