I would love a series out of this, maybe on maps, maybe on civs. That would help a lot while following tournaments, and understanding why casters react in a certain way while a civ gets picked
Fun fact! The common acronym META(Most Effective Tactic Available) is actually a backronym from the original term. 'Meta'(of Greek origin, meaning 'above' or 'beyond') originally referred to 'Meta-Gaming', most notably used in tabletop games like DND in the 70s, where it referred to exploitation of the game rules to maximize your character's power, often at the cost of roleplaying your character in a more believable, but less statistically powerful way. Metagaming was gradually shortened to just 'meta' and the stigma was lost, and now 'the meta' is commonly used to refer to the most potent and commonly used strategies in the community. 🌠The More You Know 🌠
The term still exists in tabletop for people that use out of character knowledge, it's still frowned upon. So the meaning diverged between tabletop gaming and video games.
I believe that's just to different terms that happened to spell the same. In RP games term meta-gaming is still in use. In RP games exploiting OOC knowledge is a thing and often it takes to do something about it from GM/moderators. In non-RP competitive games this term just have no sense, while the most effective tactic available is what everybody would do, because, it's a competition, after all.
@@QuintemTA I'd say part of the reason for that is because tabletop RPGs are generally cooperative rather than competitive games. The players aren't supposed to try and outdo each other. In competitive game genres like RTS trying to outperform other players is what you're supposed to do.
red bull 3 finals game 7 and that viper vs liereyy red bull 5 game 7 are two of the best games ever imo and liereyy lost both :( another great game was one of the red bull semi finals game 7 yo vs liereyy which liereyy had a crazy hold and win, might be red bull 4. Loved red bull wololos, they produced one of the best games the game ever seen, hope they will be back at some point!
Love this deeper analysis format! Spirit does it too sometimes, but while he goes more into the numbers, your approach as a top player is quite different and more backed by hands-on experience. I hope you can do similar videos for other civs :)
yes, love seeing some of these breakdowns. I remember watching Viper vs Yo as Teutons in RBW when it went down, but these analyses are great to understand the evolution.
I would love to have more videos like this. There is still quite a big gap off knowledge between the average viewer and the pros, we know quite a lot about the actual civalisations thanks to other content creators like spirit of the law, but its interesting to understand the actual affects of these civallisations and how they affect the meta under different scenarios.
Super interresting video! I really was blown away by the fact teutons are so good on this map, the way you agrumented why are are so good was really well shown. I also can totally agree with your point on teutons being a great beginner civ and can realte to it as I managed to pull a 10 game win streak to 1100 elo around my 80th game in multi player ranked ever. Love this civ so much, still my best win rate with 67%. (: As I said very interresting vid, would love to see more of those where a specific civ is very good on a map for maybe not so obvious reasons at first like the teutons in this example. Love the content, take care!
Man, you are the fastest growing in quality terms. Your YT has recently been such a crazy thing! Bigg upps! Cant afford much, but the patreon thing -hopefully- adds up for you. Best of luck!
Hera editor, I know this will SOUND kinda random but I love that BGM you use in the videos. After I watch a Hera video it always gets stuck in my head lol
It's very important to have this map and all the other classic tournments maps in the ranked map pool!! Such as Atacama, cross, acropolis and that kind
Muy buen video pibe. En lo personal soy más espectador que jugador de Age. Y te digo que este tipo de contenido me encanta porque me permite entender aspectos del juego que de otra manera no lograría comprender. Gracias por seguir haciendo contenido de calidad.
And it showed that Teutons do have counterplay even against cav archer civs. Viper used crossbowmen to keep Liereyy's camel archer numbers from snowballing in castle age, and exerted enough pressure in general to keep Liereyy from taking advantage of Imperial Age upgrades that his crossbows wouldn't be able to handle.
Great topic to discuss!! I wonder how Berbers would fare against Teutons. They have camels and cheaper stables to compensate the armor and camel archer should thrive against anything teutons can throw. I only imagine them struggling during the transition from castle to Imp but I'd still be suspicious that full discounted camels + pykes can still hold against full knights + pykes until camel archer comes into play. Would love more of these "meta history" for different civs/maps!
If we can't get an eco bonus for Magyars, the game should auto spawn 200 wolves in when they're picked as a civ... would make boar laming so much easier though there.
I think this is a good explanation as to why so many tournament maps have unwallable terrain nowadays too. I think a lot of people think it's just to make the games more aggressive (which is part of it) but it's also about balancing unit archetypes too.
More videos ! I wanted to ask how your thinking process would be when you play in a tourney like hidden cup and how you'd manage to figure out whom you're playing against + how to use that against that player ? But keep these vids up, theyre dope !
i instantly thought of the viper in game 5 of the finals pulling out teutons! everyone said they suck in competitive and he won such a game with them. probably my favourite aoe2 esports moment.
I love it Hera! I see them also picked on very small maps where mobility matters less and things like towers and crenelations castles are pretty epic. That right?
Interesting how we used to see the lack of Husbandry as a deal killer for going Teut cav, but with the cheap farms, you can keep up the numbers. Plus with the melee armor, you can win with even numbers.
LIKE 1000 :D!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Srry just saw get 1000 likes, and was only 999 likes, so the hype was maximus, btw Mr. Hera, your lessons are amazing!! THANKS :D!
I'm the opposite. I very rarely play AoE 2, but I love the competitive scene. It's a beautiful game to watch (by far the best in its genre), unfortunately I find RTS very hard to play. Too much multitasking.
Basically confirming camels aren't all that good? If melee cav really was dominating the meta, shouldn't the natural progression be towards camel civs? Meaning it's obviously not because of the armour on teutons cav that they dominate(because camels counter opposing melee cav much harder than a simple +1MA), in fact the MA has almost nothing to do with it. It's more likely down to the other factors you mentioned, their eco, better pikes (for the long term) and monk resistance.
Hi. I get naming your video a clickbaity title to get more views early, but could you rename it later to something more descriptive, like "Land Madness - The role of Teutons"? I think putting up videos like this for a variety of maps and maybe organising them into playlists could be very helpful for new and upcoming players.
“Now, it was actually TheViper who first popularized Teutons on this map, but there was a lot of thought, a lot of reasoning that went into that choice of civilization.” I think you had the best intentions when saying that, but the choice of words was really unfortunate. Maybe it is just personal interpretation, but I think the phrases with the word “but” when stating something positive about someone can have a different effect, because it diminishes their credit, sometimes even turning it to a negative meaning. By the way, English is not my native language.
As a native English speaker I don't think that applies here. In this context the "but" is more along the lines of "People started using Teutons after a pro famously won with them, but that player didn't choose them at random, they were part of a carefully considered strategy." It gives Viper more credit for his preparation and planning.
@@teddyhaines6613 maybe you’re right. Maybe “but” doesn’t have so much weight that it has in Portuguese. On the other hand, for example, I notice that the word “the” has way more weight in English than it has in Portuguese.
I love this kind of "gameplay history" video! Great, detailed breakdown of what occured and why. Thanks!
+1. Understanding the meta per map rather than the general meta - and where it came from - is very informing.
Totally agree
OMG , Never knew why
+4. Learning how the game has evolved thanks to the pros we are used to watch is so wholesome. Great content!
watch here best tips and strategys to win AGE Of Empires 2
ua-cam.com/video/hoNQSpSIneQ/v-deo.html
I would love a series out of this, maybe on maps, maybe on civs. That would help a lot while following tournaments, and understanding why casters react in a certain way while a civ gets picked
Fun fact! The common acronym META(Most Effective Tactic Available) is actually a backronym from the original term. 'Meta'(of Greek origin, meaning 'above' or 'beyond') originally referred to 'Meta-Gaming', most notably used in tabletop games like DND in the 70s, where it referred to exploitation of the game rules to maximize your character's power, often at the cost of roleplaying your character in a more believable, but less statistically powerful way.
Metagaming was gradually shortened to just 'meta' and the stigma was lost, and now 'the meta' is commonly used to refer to the most potent and commonly used strategies in the community.
🌠The More You Know 🌠
The term still exists in tabletop for people that use out of character knowledge, it's still frowned upon. So the meaning diverged between tabletop gaming and video games.
I believe that's just to different terms that happened to spell the same. In RP games term meta-gaming is still in use. In RP games exploiting OOC knowledge is a thing and often it takes to do something about it from GM/moderators. In non-RP competitive games this term just have no sense, while the most effective tactic available is what everybody would do, because, it's a competition, after all.
the stigma definitely still exists. we fucking hate metamancing losers
@@QuintemTA I'd say part of the reason for that is because tabletop RPGs are generally cooperative rather than competitive games. The players aren't supposed to try and outdo each other. In competitive game genres like RTS trying to outperform other players is what you're supposed to do.
Different terms, Meta didn't derive from metagaming
The Red Bull tournament finale of Viper vs Liereyy was legendary. One of the craziest games I’ve ever seen!
red bull 3 finals game 7 and that viper vs liereyy red bull 5 game 7 are two of the best games ever imo and liereyy lost both :( another great game was one of the red bull semi finals game 7 yo vs liereyy which liereyy had a crazy hold and win, might be red bull 4. Loved red bull wololos, they produced one of the best games the game ever seen, hope they will be back at some point!
Love this deeper analysis format! Spirit does it too sometimes, but while he goes more into the numbers, your approach as a top player is quite different and more backed by hands-on experience. I hope you can do similar videos for other civs :)
yes, love seeing some of these breakdowns. I remember watching Viper vs Yo as Teutons in RBW when it went down, but these analyses are great to understand the evolution.
Yoooo thank you so much!!
Really enjoying these short informative videos.
and happy to hear more pro tournament themed stuff in future.
Remember seeing Jordan picking Teutons against someone in a tournament game to counter Franks. On Arabia!
That was cool. And it worked.
I would love to have more videos like this. There is still quite a big gap off knowledge between the average viewer and the pros, we know quite a lot about the actual civalisations thanks to other content creators like spirit of the law, but its interesting to understand the actual affects of these civallisations and how they affect the meta under different scenarios.
Videos explaining the meta on map types are really interesting and helpful Hera, thanks very much!
Probably we'll see Dravidians in Land Madness next. Urumi will absolutely destroy extra Melee armored Teutons army. 11
Super interresting video! I really was blown away by the fact teutons are so good on this map, the way you agrumented why are are so good was really well shown. I also can totally agree with your point on teutons being a great beginner civ and can realte to it as I managed to pull a 10 game win streak to 1100 elo around my 80th game in multi player ranked ever. Love this civ so much, still my best win rate with 67%. (:
As I said very interresting vid, would love to see more of those where a specific civ is very good on a map for maybe not so obvious reasons at first like the teutons in this example.
Love the content, take care!
Man, you are the fastest growing in quality terms. Your YT has recently been such a crazy thing! Bigg upps!
Cant afford much, but the patreon thing -hopefully- adds up for you.
Best of luck!
Yessss more of the proplay education videos!! I‘d love to know more about your thoughts during a pick/ban phase!!
This was a cool insight into how and why meta develops and changes. Would love to see more of this! Even for a map as standard as Arabia
I love this kind of content. Great job Hera!
Super cool video! Much appreciate, please do more of those!
It's cool to get some insight into the pros' thought process behind draft picks!
Great video idea, would love some more like this please
Cool insight. Hope you cast more games
I love the civ choice part of tournaments, I'd love to see more
This is amazing. You should do a video for each tournament map about the meta. I learned so much.
watch here best tips and strategys to win AGE Of Empires 2
ua-cam.com/video/hoNQSpSIneQ/v-deo.html
Hera editor, I know this will SOUND kinda random but I love that BGM you use in the videos. After I watch a Hera video it always gets stuck in my head lol
Thought provoking. A good idea for videos in general.
It's very important to have this map and all the other classic tournments maps in the ranked map pool!! Such as Atacama, cross, acropolis and that kind
idk about the rest but to me this was a fascinating topic
I wish land madness was in map pools more often. Its such a great map. Alas I keep getting Nomad and some random water map.
Muy buen video pibe. En lo personal soy más espectador que jugador de Age. Y te digo que este tipo de contenido me encanta porque me permite entender aspectos del juego que de otra manera no lograría comprender. Gracias por seguir haciendo contenido de calidad.
gracias hermano
Wow big probs to digging out those exact tourney moments!! :)
Excellent video. I would love more videos like this.
I love this, Id love more vids like this. For me watching high level play is more fun than playing.
That viper last game win in land madness with teutons going castle minutes aftee lierey was one of the best games ive ever seen
And it showed that Teutons do have counterplay even against cav archer civs. Viper used crossbowmen to keep Liereyy's camel archer numbers from snowballing in castle age, and exerted enough pressure in general to keep Liereyy from taking advantage of Imperial Age upgrades that his crossbows wouldn't be able to handle.
Historical (as pertaining to AoE) impact of different civs is such a great idea for videos
Amzing content, love this "What the pro thinks", thanks
Great topic to discuss!! I wonder how Berbers would fare against Teutons. They have camels and cheaper stables to compensate the armor and camel archer should thrive against anything teutons can throw. I only imagine them struggling during the transition from castle to Imp but I'd still be suspicious that full discounted camels + pykes can still hold against full knights + pykes until camel archer comes into play. Would love more of these "meta history" for different civs/maps!
Nice series!
If we can't get an eco bonus for Magyars, the game should auto spawn 200 wolves in when they're picked as a civ... would make boar laming so much easier though there.
I think this is a good explanation as to why so many tournament maps have unwallable terrain nowadays too. I think a lot of people think it's just to make the games more aggressive (which is part of it) but it's also about balancing unit archetypes too.
Would love to see lots more of these videos - lots and lots more!
watch here best tips and strategys to win AGE Of Empires 2
ua-cam.com/video/hoNQSpSIneQ/v-deo.html
More videos ! I wanted to ask how your thinking process would be when you play in a tourney like hidden cup and how you'd manage to figure out whom you're playing against + how to use that against that player ? But keep these vids up, theyre dope !
watch here best tips and strategys to win AGE Of Empires 2
ua-cam.com/video/hoNQSpSIneQ/v-deo.html
good video! different, unique. let's see more like this.
Finally, some Teuton love.
Knew exactly what this would be about when I saw the title haha (I do follow tournaments)
I think it's hillarious that the meta on a map where you cannot wall is dominated by a "defensive civ" :D
i instantly thought of the viper in game 5 of the finals pulling out teutons! everyone said they suck in competitive and he won such a game with them. probably my favourite aoe2 esports moment.
I love it Hera! I see them also picked on very small maps where mobility matters less and things like towers and crenelations castles are pretty epic. That right?
I guess it's not really a meta change actually.. just a good civ for it.
Bring back "How to Play *Map*" series!
It helps that Teutons got buffed shortly before that tournament. Viper was just the first one to utilize the newly buffed cavalry.
Love the video, could we have best civs on the most popular maps?
I enjoy this kind of analysis.
Interesting how we used to see the lack of Husbandry as a deal killer for going Teut cav, but with the cheap farms, you can keep up the numbers. Plus with the melee armor, you can win with even numbers.
Freaking beautiful analysis
More pro thought process videos please!
Toot-ons ate beans. Just googled it. And cheese. Those make you toot. (nice vid)
This is very good! Tell us more lores about the game..
haha,i;ve got defeated just today in your colloseum tournament vs teutons, and it was exactly like this haha
thats a 7/10 strategy from the viper
I love Teutonic Knights, they're very good against Goths/Aztecs.
Nice video
Iv always played teutons ever since i was a kid
min 3:55 how?! how could you make perfect square farms around the mill? haha
LIKE 1000 :D!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Srry just saw get 1000 likes, and was only 999 likes, so the hype was maximus, btw Mr. Hera, your lessons are amazing!! THANKS :D!
Went from archers dominated, to cavalry dominated, to cavalry and cavalry archers dominated map.
Nature is healing. Everything will be alright.
I would say Teutons are also top on maps where tower rush is OP as Socotra
Ngl i was thinking the tower bonus would let you garrison all your villagers to keep them safe on land madness😂
Can u do viewer tourneys??? Pls
i have viewer tourneys in my discord, available for my patreon users. They even have cash prizes
"Two tawns" "two tawn nick"
Nice video! Do more
why not camels?
Teutons are obviously the reason for the popularity of x-bow, the only thing that can deal with ETK
Why isn't this map in the ranked pool
nice video
I'm the opposite. I very rarely play AoE 2, but I love the competitive scene. It's a beautiful game to watch (by far the best in its genre), unfortunately I find RTS very hard to play. Too much multitasking.
sick video
I can't imagine what a player with more than 7/10 in strategy can come out with.
This was cool
Love it
Very good video, Don’t want to be critical, but it’s pronounced mell-ay not meal-ee.
Commenting for the sake of the algorithm
Basically confirming camels aren't all that good?
If melee cav really was dominating the meta, shouldn't the natural progression be towards camel civs? Meaning it's obviously not because of the armour on teutons cav that they dominate(because camels counter opposing melee cav much harder than a simple +1MA), in fact the MA has almost nothing to do with it. It's more likely down to the other factors you mentioned, their eco, better pikes (for the long term) and monk resistance.
Hi. I get naming your video a clickbaity title to get more views early, but could you rename it later to something more descriptive, like "Land Madness - The role of Teutons"? I think putting up videos like this for a variety of maps and maybe organising them into playlists could be very helpful for new and upcoming players.
this is much better for youtube, trust me on this one!
teuuuuuuuuutons
Nice
Ahh so your saying nothing really changed 😅
So, not a really good map then ?
FIRST
just as i got my dinner too, perfect timing
Meaning you live somewhere in East asia, SE Asia or Australia
@@parthn-musicforwork4789 Nah, he prolly lives on Mars.
@@parthn-musicforwork4789 yup, India
“Now, it was actually TheViper who first popularized Teutons on this map, but there was a lot of thought, a lot of reasoning that went into that choice of civilization.”
I think you had the best intentions when saying that, but the choice of words was really unfortunate.
Maybe it is just personal interpretation, but I think the phrases with the word “but” when stating something positive about someone can have a different effect, because it diminishes their credit, sometimes even turning it to a negative meaning.
By the way, English is not my native language.
Maybe better alternative is "indeed"?
@@ks_movies just "and" is fine
As a native English speaker I don't think that applies here. In this context the "but" is more along the lines of "People started using Teutons after a pro famously won with them, but that player didn't choose them at random, they were part of a carefully considered strategy."
It gives Viper more credit for his preparation and planning.
@@teddyhaines6613 7, that makes more sense..
@@teddyhaines6613 maybe you’re right. Maybe “but” doesn’t have so much weight that it has in Portuguese.
On the other hand, for example, I notice that the word “the” has way more weight in English than it has in Portuguese.