Methods of Lead - Which One is Best? | How to Shotgun #10
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Methods of Lead - Which One is Best? | How to Shotgun #10: Shotgun lead is a subject that can perplex even experienced shooters. The concept of lead refers to the distance in front of a moving target that a shooter needs to be in order to hit it successfully. In this video, we will unravel the mysteries of shotgun lead, explore different approaches to achieving it, and provide valuable tips to help you become a more proficient shooter. Whether you're a seasoned shotgun enthusiast or a beginner looking to improve your shooting skills, this guide will shed light on the world of lead. Let's go!
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Steve Gould
Dude… that was one of the best teachings on the subject I’ve seen. Great job!
Another advice i used back in the day is trying to remove as much variables from your training, if you're like me and you had multiple guns because your father is a hunting fan, pick one gun and get used to it especially when it comes to mount, another thing that's usually taken for granted is your actual shotgun cartridge , try out multiple shells and pick your favorite and stick to it and eventually you will learn the capabilities of that cartridge and how it behaves in different conditions such as cold or hot weather. The more variables you remove the more consistent you can be with your practice rounds and the better shot you will become.
Great advice…consistency is key!
As a really OLD shooter, I started in the sixties. One thing sticks out for me. That is don’t just keep doing the same thing. Try something different. Give it a try. You just may find what works for you best!! Good luck 👍
Thats why for example basketball players practise throw for different style. Or gymnastics practise landing for different distance after jump. Conditions may vary and you need to have different solutions for different situations. It's all learning motor skills and teaching your brains to make solutions.
You are so right!!!!!!!
Butt, Belly, Beak, Bang! was how I was taught when I was a new hunter, the 4 B's method or pass through/swing through. Benefit of both the Swing-through and Pull Away methods is that they are great for getting the shotgun muzzle on the target line. Target line is often a forgotten aspect for consistent breaks.
This is my method as well. Works the best for me when hunting upland game
Exactly, if you mount too far infront of the target then pull away you are much more likely to be off the line.
Does this work at all distances? Pheasant hunting the other day and bird was 40 yrd out. I gave a good lead and no hit.
@@bad_vaporizer yes, but the key to consistency is practice. When you can get out and practice on the skeet field or a sporting clays course.
You’ll be far behind any crossing fast flying pheasant, dove, waterfowl at 35+ yds aiming at beaks.
Great video once again! Me and my buddy set up patterning targets @ 35 yards away to test different shells. When we starting shooting clays we were missing, we were too focused on the front sight. Once I left both eyes open and focused on the travel of the clay instead of pointing at the clay we started blasting them to dust.
Good video! I always use a sports analogy of a quarterback throwing to a receiver. Your arm is the gun, the ball is the shot, the receiver is the target. You wouldn’t look behind yourself at the ball in your hand and then follow it through the throwing motion and in the air. You focus on the receiver. How do you know how much lead to use, practice, practice, practice. And make sure your gun fits.
This is an outstanding series of instructional videos on America's oldest sport. Thank you sir!
I love your videos. The non stop video transitions make them challenging to watch.
Good video series Steve. Thank you.
I have found in my experience that some people just possess the ability to gauge this skill more than others. Yes, of course, practice, but so much of this is innate.
I have also found that many people who think they are missing behind are actually missing under.
Song and verse, every word in this video is spot on. Such great advice and teaching. Thank you.
Amazing video with awesome quality, I know now that I have not been leading clays enough, trap seems so easy when the clay is right in front of you and flies straight out, skeet from left to right is easier for me than right to left for some reason.
Lack of "follow through," or "stopping the gun" probably causes as many misses as any other fault. And a good way to know if that's your problem is to practice shooting at something flying low over water, like coots tend to do. A lot may be learned about your lead, your shot string, and your pattern.
A big hello from France where I just started clay shooting two month ago. I would like to thank you for your video I just discovered. They are very clear and helpfull. Lead is my nightmare.
I use a SHOTKAM and that's my best coach, never lies😛....love your videos, very useful and knowledgeable....going duck hunting in a few weeks will go out and shoot a few hundred clays using your approach to get me dialed in....thanks Danny//
I think George Digweed uses a controlled swing through most of the time. He says then you can only miss behind or in front, rather than in 4 directions!
It would really be cool for you to look into the intermediate trap market like the 725 trap max and or the combos that are offered around the 4.5 to 7 thousand dollar market
Seems like with skeet, the most popular technique is the "merger", since it has the least amount of gun movement. I use the swing through method with some success, but am rather inconsistent, particularly on station 3 and 4. I think the reason, as you suggested, is that you only have a narrow timeframe to make the shot. I think I am going to experiment with the merger technique. Thank for a great explanation of all three techniques. The Shotcam visual really helps.
Great video for clays shooting. I’d be interested in a video about how these different lead approaches apply in hunting wild birds, ie when you don’t know the flight path before hand.
As a Left Handed Shooter, I would like to know which Brand of Over/Under Shotguns have a "Natural" Cant Butt-Stock & which Brands to stay away from, as a Left Handed Shooter. Thanks
I don't really judge lead in feet. I try to judge it in inches while I'm looking down the barrel at the target. I don't know how many feet of lead it is, but I can tell you about how far off the tip of the barrel I put the clay/bird in inches 🤷♂️
Very nice presentation. Thanks.
Great advice! I have learned sooo much from this series and it has taken my shooting to another level! Can’t wait to show off my skills thesis waterfowl season! Thanks so much
Excelentes lances de lo platos amigos saludos
🇪🇨🇪🇨👍
Got a tip once if you don't know is your missing in front or not.
Start on the clay, next shot a bit in front, shots after that keep increasing the distance.
I’ve taught a couple dozen people the basics, but am in no way a professional. Gun fit, mounting, swing, and trigger pull are all factors that need to be consistent. As for lead after that; I’ve found putting a shotkam on someone’s barrel is the fastest way to review what they’re doing that could lead to inconsistent results.
I post some of my personal footage to my channel that shows misses and hits. It’s nice to review sometimes.
Steve, This is an excellent logically orgainized, excellent assessments of ea. methods, n excellent
video presentation esp. w ur comment on assigning the risk of not hitting the tgt on ea. method and
one method doesn't fit all the tgt flying conditions. Plus, a good bonus on how to practice. Bravo n Thk u!
Great vid from a new shooter, thanks you explained it excellently.
Enjoy watching your videos.
What shotgun are you showing in this video?
Thank you and please more.
Instruction stars at 5:21.
Can you make a video about difference in ribs and what it does ?
I'd like to share how I learned lead, but need to preface this within will not work for everyone. It works for me because I have left eye dominance but an right handed. I can shoot left handed, but no matter what I have to close one eye or I do not get a true sight picture. My off eye will always take over and I only see the blind side of the sight picture. Through this I learned you can see the shot cup in the air almost immediately after it comes out of the muzzle. In your perifrial vision watch the shot cup. If you are behind the target in your shot you will see the cup arc behind the target. If you are in front it will arc in front of the target. I'm not saying the cup will cross the path of the target nessicarily, wind plays into that. You are watching for where the cup changes direction from drag. I know I'm not explaining this well, but just watch the behavior of the cup when you shoot and you will see it for yourself. Once you do understand what I'm talking about you will be able to figure this one out. I taught my daughter this method and she started hitting 99% of the time once she knew how to see where the shot was going based on the arc of the shot cup. She can shoot both eyes open and finds it super easy to see the cup. Like I said this method doesn't work for everyone, not everyone can watch multiple moving objects and stay focused on the clay to see the break. My son is one of those people. I still haven't found a way to teach him to see where his shot is going. He is doing good to break 10%... usually 1 out of 25. He is impatient is his biggest problem.
Thanks Steve...I'll give it a try
Good Video. Curious you're shooting that Rizzini BR101 IPS shotgun. I have the same gun. Love it !!! What do you set the rib at for that kind of shooting ? For Trap I use the 70/30 setting. Looks like you're on the 50/50 setting. Thanks Love you videos..
A good way to get at lead is going to a skeet range and have the old timers help you a little and just play the game regularly or whenever you get chance. Good luck with your journey.
That is exactly how i learned a lot, shooting skeet and trap and having the old timers correct me
Be careful, many of the worst shooters I know are “old timers.” There’s just as much blustery stubbornness that comes with age as there is wisdom. It may sound nice but it’s often flawed. Learn from good shooters. Don’t consider their age and you’ll be ok.
It's funny that he says inexperienced shooters stick with swing through method haha the most consistent shot in the world George digweed coaches the swing through method and achieved all the success with it.
Absolutely fantastic feedback love that , appreciate your plain just lead. On the objeck or targets..😳👍
Hey target focused I’m right now using an improved cylinder for trap what choke would you recommend me to shoot?
Full for trap
what is Trap to you i’ve been trying my P3500 & M3500, multiple chokes on each multiple types of ammo for a bunch of different species of game
Squirrels, Rabbits, Doves mainly waiting to test some Nutria with a buddy who has a mud boat
I’ve mostly been liking the IC Choke for Skeets honestly 10-25yrds
also depends on gun model and chokes
check out SurvivingDuckSeason he also some very great info on Shotguns/Ammo/Chokes/ShotString/Patterning
Just a great discussion of and how to apply these different techniques. Great video.
I feel like its more of being focused and ready than anything. Lead is important but at some of the clay tournaments i go to i find you get a lot of variety in crossers and the speed they go.
I will go to one station and have a small fast crosser and some will be super slow.
I often find if im not prepared and in the zone im going to have a bad tournament. Also surrounding yourself with good players helps drive me to do better. If i get in a group with peeps who don’t do good I won’t do good.
My goal is trying to be consistent.
I got the shotgun and ammo figured out and choke.
My issue is i can go out and hit 95 out of 100 and the next week i will hit a 80 and then have a 65.
But i also float between 4 different places for tournaments and they are all different.
Some are close to medium difficulty and some are medium to far away and some are getting crazy with a clay bouncing off a trampoline and going the other way.
For me i actually prefer sustained lead especially on 50+yrd birds. Fast birds or spring teal i like swing through. Pull away on rabbit's. Its crazy though like you said how guys look at a presentation and use completely different methods and wildly different break points.
is it a degree of lead like i dont know like 3 degrees and as the target gets further out the lead increases but still at three degrees ? i just threw out the 3 degrees like three degrees a 40 yards may be 6 feet at 10 yards 6 inches only problem with that like that depends on angle you never know what presentation you will get dove hunting
Love it Steve, great tips and great series.
Interesting topic and hard to teach. Focus on target. Then bring the gun into the picture. Then establish the lead. Swinging thru a skeet target would be good start. Lead up on a rising bird, jumping ducks or a rooster. Or ducks coming from behind, dropping into decoys. Always target focused and keep the gun Swinging thru... i can see merging into the line of the flight path...
New to the sport How do you see lead if your focused on the target
Quarter angle targets come from behind. Crosses 30 yards and further pull ahead or measured pullahead or modified pull the head. 20 yard crossers, sustained lead or collapsing sustain lead. 60 yard targets, very slow gun with a measured pullahead. Very precise, aiming method. Also, eye dominance makes a big difference in what method best for you . Less than 10% of the shooters actually perceive the target where it is because of eye dominance and only shooters that are in the top 10% have good success with a sustained lead. One eyed shooters cross dominant shooters, definitely need to come from behind on almost all targets to be somewhat successful. Also, the measured pull ahead aiming techniques works pretty well for one eyed shooters and cross dominant shooters with sustain lead being a sure fire miss . Very few cross dominant shooters. have that much instinct because they perceive the target somewhere that it’s not. A precise aiming technique works better for those type of shooters. The bottom line is we all have to know what our abilities are, and shoot for the highest percentage possible in each presentation.
great video and very well explained 👍👍
Thanks for sharing all the tips and info. I have been watching your videos for sometime. You make great content.
I often use maintain lead. In bush or woods I have to use pull through cos birds flashes very fast. I watch my hunting videos to learn more, make slow motion to see better how I hit or miss.
Great video! I feel the need…the need for lead….
No matter what sport you take on nothing comes overnight It's one thing Practice Practice And More Practice 😊
I have watched a lot of videos pertaining to lead and also asked some very experienced shooters about a question I have on the subject and not got an answer to my satisfaction … first, we are told that a properly fitted shotgun will shoot where you are looking. Secondly, we are told to focus exclusively on the target (clay or bird) and especially not on the gun, presumably meaning that the muzzle will be pointed directly at the target when doing so. We are also told we need to lead a moving target but that we should not measure it. My question then is: How do you end up pointing the muzzle of your gun ahead of the target if you’re focusing entirely on the target? The advice seems at odds. Step by step, what does the process look like?
Search Ben Husthwaite.
Thanks ,@@Bob-xt2kh , he and others have good videos, I think I have watched most of them and gained good knowledge. But I have yet to find one that answers my specific question. To attain lead implies that you are not shooting directly at the target, but rather, where the target will be when the shot arrives. It would seem to me then, that to do so , you're either not looking looking at the target or the gun is not pointing where you're looking when you pull the trigger. Which is it?
There is a method called a measured pull ahead or modified pull ahead, which works great for long targets. Very precise, almost aiming, and very slow barrel speed.
From what I gather (having also recently watched a bunch of videos), the answer to your question is “the magic of hand eye coordination”. You can scratch your nose in the dark because your body knows where it is. A well fitted gun points where your body expects it to, and so it can do the aiming for you when you focus on the target. An improperly fitted gun will point along a different line from what your body naturally wants, and so will shoot to a different place. You could probably calibrate yourself to the gun and learn where it’s actually pointed, but that’s less natural and intuitive. So step by step would be “acquire target, bring the gun up, hand eye magic, boom”
It seems somewhat similar to point shooting a pistol. Like it’s more instinctive than fully aimed, and different grips will change your impact point.
Or I could be way off in left field, who knows 😂
can you explain shot shell fps and shot weight please!
Angle speed and distance determine lead and often method. But most important is connection with the bird, bird well apear to slow down and you can obtain hard focus on tgt.then either swing through pull away or sustain. Connect Connect Connect.
Great advice but as with just about every other attempt to gain a "picture" there was very little here that helped me "see" what you were "taking" about. I know - go practice on the range. That doesn't help without visual input. Thanks anyway, I appreciate your effort.
I generally don't connect with this guy but I have to say his analogy between shotgun lead and shooting a basketball is very good. It's not something you can teach or explain. (But did he pick that hull up he threw on the ground at the beginning!) LOL!
Thank you
lead is a feeling, not a dimension - AM
great content
Very good presentation
SOOOOO SPOT ON!
I asked my cousin this question, he's a farmer who lives in Minnesota.
He said about a hay-rack. 😐
What make/model gun are you using in this vid?
You didread my mind! This is about what I am struggling😅
Great advice!!
2nd year waterfowl hunting. Got nothing but nothing lol Struggling with lead.
Thank you!!
As always superb.👍🌹
so tracking or flicking is what your saying
I mount the bird and then use the pull out method
Follow through, follow through, follow through! Follow through leads lead.
What is he using to record under the shotgun?
I think it is called a SHOTKAM.
Great video 👏👏
You find yourself guessing more with sustained lead on far targets vs swing through? Swing through is always speculation based on experience, there's no real way to change that.
If you are shooting sustained lead on a long target, if you hit, you just repeat what you did. If you miss, you iterate based on your experience until you hit, and then you repeat. You can design the repeatability into your shot.
You cannot do this with a strategy that counts on zero variability betwen your eyes moving a signal to your brain, your brain moving a signal to your hands, the takeup mush in the pad of your finger, the time it takes for your gun to lockup.
Matching clay speed with gun speed eliminates all of that variability and the only trade is you have to plan how your body moves and your break points a little more deliberately.
With that being said, i realize how insane some leads look when you start to get a picture of what real leads look like. Swing through shooters say "3 feet of lead" when it's 15 feet. It's hard to not second guess it, but when it clicks, you are making dust at 80 yards without much issue.
please can you reviw Fabarm L4S ?
What about the pull out method jk
I am always puzzled by the saying "hard focusing on the target". If the gun fits it shoots where you look and if you are just looking at the clay or bird you are not in front of it. I am a decent wingshot don't really shoot clays but I am looking for a spot in front of the bird if not you are shooting behind it.
I always struggle with the idea that the gun shoots where you look. First of all your vision isn't limited to one point in space, with both eyes open we have a 50 to 60 degree field of vision. Second, your eyes are always moving. Its almost impossible to keep your eyes in the same spot while your upper body turns. Usually your eyes will fixate on a point and then as your head turns will try to catch up and fixate on another point, etc... So while your gun may fit perfectly and your dominant eye is looking right down the site rib, as you turn your eye will go constantly go out of alignment and work its way back.
@@thomashoffman5745 so then how does hard focus on the target work? If you eyes are moving that is not hard focus.
9:12 with video with the cars?
Kind of the same idea but any tips for getting out of the habit of stopping?
Newer shooter and I have a bad habit of stopping when I shoot obviously leading to me missing
stopping/stalling the gun is caused by looking at the barrel. to remedy this you can remove the beads on your shotgun and try to build the visual discipline required to stare at the target through the shot, keeping the gun moving.
You can not see any of the targets in the videos making it a complete waste of time
How much lead?
Not telling - you need to spend a fortune on cartridges to figure it out yourself, did I tell you we have a discount in the club shop?
I guess most beginners are asking am I to aim on / on the nose/ a foot in front of 10 foot infront.
😬😬😬 All these videos explain how to aim, how to focus... but I have just no idea how to look over the barrel of the gun. Where is my barrel heading when I'm just too stupid to aim??? Please provide videos of different barrel sight types.
Pull ahead is the worst, it develops jerky bad habits.
What shotgun are you holding?
Looked like a beretta 682 xtrap maybe...
@@hakimthumb, Looks like a Turkish knock off to me. Maybe I am wrong.
99% will shoot behind the target I have ppl tell me I’m crazy when I say that I lead ringneck ducks 12’ at 45 yards, you have a chance at a head shot even if you over lead but have no chance if you are behind but hit’s don’t bring them down. I’m not a clay shooter so to speak but I’m a hunter jumping woodys on a creek will cause you to learn another way of shooting called snap shooting I use it a lot in really close quarters Learned this shooting aspirins with a 22 my dad tout this to me you owe it to yourself to try it!!!!!
I don't think I should watch this! I grew up hearing about "leading them" and so I thought about with EVERY bird, every shot, ever! And I missed ALL THE TIME!! The day I forgot all about it and just started staring at the birds and reacting to it naturally I started hitting, damn near every single time. I never lead, I rarely miss. I don't get it doesn't make sense and it doesn't work. Periodt.
Un abrazo Dominicano
is it true that the further the bird, the more lead? the closer the bird, the less lead?
That is correct, there is less distance that the shot has to travel, therefore less lead is required
Fab!!!!!
Gun speed is most important
Gun speed needs to be the same as the target.
Or faster. If gun moves slower you'll need much more lead. It depends on your shooting style and your "sight picture". Theoretically you can calculate target distance, speed, brain delay, pellets flying time and shoot clay just keep your gun still. But it is easier to move gun to same direction. Shot string helps also a bit. A little too much ahead is not that big problem for crossing targets.
I have even shot a teal by moving my gun to opposite direction than it flew (tried to shoot another bird) 😁.
Skip to 5:30 youre welcome
HAHAHA "NICE AND CLEEAAN" Jordan Peterson to the T lololol
TARGET SPEED X GUN SPEED X DISTANCE TO TARGET
Lead is felt, not measured.
pick them shells up litterlout !!
Talk to me in those accents and I’ll buy whatever you want
I literally learned...nothing from this video that I didn't already know
The basket ball analogy is misleading because a human cannot measure the parameters required to determine the answer, so it is meaningless to try. Turn the human into a robot with the right telemetry equipment and it will do EXACTLY that. In the same way there is a way to determine the lead on a target. Its all math and physics. To say that it is not, is incredibly foolish. Now, you are not going to go out with a pen paper and calculator in one hand a shotgun in the other, but you can do the math at home with some well chosen parameters. Then you can go outdoors and gain experience in determining range, speed and angle of incidence of the clay/bird and you will be in the right ball park. A human brain is a small computer and is doing EXACTLY what a gunnery computer does in a warship. The difference is in how the barrel is put into position to pull the trigger. The swing through and the pull ahead are basically the same but withy a small difference in barrel speed. Your statement that with swing-through, that the trigger pull is necessary within millisecs is just false and would only be true if firing a bullet. The pull ahead only works if you know the lead to apply but it doesnt have to be exact as the spread is your margin of error. A slow rising bird at 20yds might need only 2 ft, but the spread is about 4ft. However a bird going downhill, wind behind it at 40yds may need about 24ft and the spread is only 6-8ft. So it makes a difference. The merge has the same issue, you have to know the where the merge is, ie the lead. Giving an approximate lead is NOT difficult and it doesnt need to be accurate to the nearest foot or even 2.
Training i guess 😂
Just show the fukin video