What Position Is Better For A Red Dot On Your Rifle
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2023
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As much as I love a good Low Powered Variable Optic (LPVO), I typically prefer using a red dot in combination with an LPVO. Personally, I like running a red dot with a 45-degree can't, but many people prefer to mount their red dot at a 90-degree angle on top of their LPVO.
The choice is highly subjective, and everyone has their reasons for selecting one position over the other. In this video, we explore two different opinions and the reasons behind them.
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Keeping the red dot at the end of your receiver. Shoot with both eyes open using the dot with dominant eye. The further it is from your eye the better your field of view.
Correct, also easier to stay target focused.
Not necessarily true. The RDS can be ran up close to the shooter's eye and sometimes its better overall depending on the shooter. I used to run my RDS above the ejection port and moved the RDS back closer to my eye. I decided to try it after instructors like Will Petty and Steve Fisher spoke about it. I ended up preferring that positioning more.
I will agree but that depends on the optic for me, size of overall optic to field of view with optic as well as MOA size of dot. I have felt comfortable both ways same gun different dot
red dot muzzle device
Running the dot in front of my dominant eye would require me to shoot lefty or 3D print an offset mount😂. I have trained myself to be able to see just fine so far. I have yet to actually take a course as I live in Hawai’i and have to travel and mail all ammo to the facility.
Armorer: Which accessories do you want on your rifle? Collion: YES!
The very first thing I thought when I set up my lpvo and slanted red dot was it feels natural to turn the gun over a little. I tried mounting it on top the lpvo but couldn't get used to it although the thought of it made sense to me. To each their own. Do what works for you. Thanks colion. Another great video.👍🇺🇲
I couldn’t zero mine on top without having crazy holdovers. Any recommendations?
Funny you say that cuz I had the exact same issue. Sorry I can't help you. That was the reason I switched back to the 45 offset. Maybe try boresight.
@@hunterarmstrong7677 Shim the rear of the mount. Depending on the RDS and mount, it might be anything from just thick paper to clipping a Trijicon battery saver mount in half.
It's similar to shimming scope rings. Oldest trick in the book. Need -2MOA... 0.032" shim stock.
Right! you would think that makes sense but everyone is different
Just met you at the Thompson Hotel today! Great to meet you in person Colion. Thanks for all you do for the community
Great meeting you man!
@@ColionNoir I would love a chance to train with Buck Doyle, super bonus points of it's a class also attended by the one-and-only Mr. Noir!
Thank you for all you do, from advocacy, training tips and counterarguments for the anti-gunners out there.
Colion, with ur dot at a 45 to the right of the lpvo, what is your best course of action if your right arm is taken out and you have to go lefty for the remainder of your fight?
A red dot, for me, is easier to use when it is farther away (front of the receiver). Similar ( I know it's closer) distance to when having a red dot on a pistol. It allows a better field of view for your surroundings as well.
I’m still waiting for my first AR to arrive. From my experience in the military I like for my red dot to be mounted on the top rails but once I get my AR I will try different variations of mounts and find out what works best for me. But I definitely want the red dot and magnified optic set up. Love the videos and constant updates on the 2A community.
Build your own why wait??
@@XX-166 no I’m buying my first AR not building one yet
@@SupaSargeakaQ let us know how that goes.. what are you buying??
@@SupaSargeakaQbetter idea. I’ve seen too many dudes “build” their first AR and have parts fall off etc/ spend months trouble shooting an AR that does run. AR’s are cheap enough you can buy from a reputable manufacturer who knows the exact specs needed during installation.
I hate red dot in the military. I prefer ACOG.
I never thought about running an LPVO and a red dot on my work rifle. Interesting concept. Then again, most of my work was CQB distances, maybe 50 yards at the most. I did run a Leupold Mark4 CQT scope on one rifle and liked it quite a bit.
Love your videos, Colion Noir! Very informative! Keep them coming!
My favorite colion noir video. My favorite red dot position on my AR-15 is on side of scope for multiple reasons, it’s quick and easy to switch between scope and red dot without sacrificing me keeping aware of my surroundings, weight distribution plus it’s quick and easy to adjust everything from scope to red dot because it’s all together plus I love the looks of it.
Solid video, I like that you had two perspectives, I'm sure it's helpful for some who may not have the same style as yourself. Thanks for taking the time to explain the why's etc...!
I think the best setup is top mount. Better for NODS, better for weak side. If one is worried about height over bore and cheek weld then slap some canted irons or a smaller pistol dot on there which can also be a backup if your scope and top dot get busted. In my opinion, dots are meant for having a minimally obstructed peripheral view, which the top offers the most as a canted mount forces the top mounted optic to obstruct the view of your weak side. Throw in NODS and then there really isn't a choice due to clearance. I see a lot of people stating canted is better for quickly switching to close range, but for actual cqb it's difficult to use when having to shoot weak side around corners and other objects. I admit shooting from a cant looks awesome, and rolling from glass to dot sight picture is more stable and consistent than raising your cheek off the cheek rest, but NODS clearances and being unusable weak side are deal killers for me as these aren't something training can fix. Rasing my eye an inch is trainable. For those that have a hard time finding the dot when rasing your head I recommend getting a rds with a large reference circle that way you know where to fish for the dot. This is different from a circle/dot reticle as the reference circle is only ever partially viewable when the dot isn't in view, so depending on what part of the referemce circle you see you know where to go looking to find the reticle, be that a dot, chevron, circle/dot or what have you. When the reticle is centered in view you can't see any of the reference circle so it doesn't clutter the view when on sight picture either.
Very informative comment. I have a deltapoint pro and side mount on the way but will keep this in mind when I eventually get nods. Really looking forward to running the dual optic setup in general though
I like a LPVO with angled Irons. I just don't like the mini red dots for either top or angled mounts. I also do not like running red dots by themselves without cowitnessed irons. As always great video!!
Needing to cowitness irons defeats the value of a red dot in the first place. You aren’t using a red dot properly if you are using your irons at all
I have an LPVO with angled iron sights on one carbine, and another with a red dot and Magpul MBUS sights that absolute cowitness with the red dot when deployed.
I think this works best for me, because I'm the event of primary optic failure I have a backup option that doesn't require batteries.
@@totenfurwotan4478 In a perfect world, glass never cracks and batteries are changed out daily. What I read from his statement was "running an optic by itself without a back-up is my least favorite way to do things."
@@Miss_Chevious he’s talking about a red dot over a LPVO and how he won’t run a red dot with irons cowitnessed. Nothing About irons aa a back up. It’s a moot point though as modern red dots are combat reliable
*Thank you for making this video. I’ve been looking for something like this for a while now.*
This is why I like a good illuminated first focal plane LPVO. At 1x, if your LPVO has a good horseshoe or ring around the center, it's usually small enough to be the same size as a red dot.
Yes they are good, but I still prefer a 12 o clock dot on top of my ATACR. At night I can set my brightness on red dot to passive NV setting, and set lpvo brightness to a level that will work with going white light immediately by looking under my nods.
Primary Arms for the win with the Horseshoe Reticle
Thank you for teaching us so much, an giving so much to think about.
Thanks for sharing your videos Colion!
I like keeping non-iron sights directly above the extractor.
12 o-clock is king for rapid target acquisition (chin weld for red dot on target, drop to cheek weld and target is in your FOV for the magnified optic). It's also fantastic for upright posture and doing passive IR aiming with nods.
Awesome informative video, thanks guys.
Underbarrel; underrated position.
Mine is mounted on the right side of my prism optic. It’s not quite a 45° cant, but a slight roll left of the rifle and it lines up perfectly without losing your cheek weld.
Was pleasantly surprised when it worked so well the first time 😂
Thanks for the video guys
Top dot is best dot.
Mounting a dot over a magnified optic gives you better clearance for passive aiming with night vision.
It gives you a true 1x with no parallax.
The added height over bore, coupled with the right zero (65 yds, +4.5" height over bore, any 14.5-16" barrel loading) can give you an insanely flat trajectory out to 300. Also works on 18-20" barrels with a 75 yd zero)
Canted dots are off bore axis. Top dots don't have that issue. Keeping your head more upright also helps keep you from getting tunnel vision on the target, increasing peripheral awareness.
Too many benefits to not run a top dot imho.
But when the rifle is rotated for the canted red dot, it is over the bore and not off axis. Also most modern red dots are parallax free, so it shouldn't really matter if your "sight alignment" with a red dot is off, because the dot moves "with your eye" and stays on target.
But yes a top mounted red dot is better for NV, or so I hear.
@nativewarrior5052 it's not going to matter up close, no... but when you're factoring for bore alignment with 30, 50, 100+ yard shots, your POI will start shifting more and more drastically. Part of the benefit of having another optic is, well, having another optic. I don't want it to be limited to sub 25 yard engagements.
Mechanical offset has a lot more influence over your shots than parallax.
Canted dots work. Otherwise you wouldn't see so many people running them. Top dots just have more advantages, at least in my opinion. 🤷♂️
@@nativewarrior5052 ^
Colion.... I would love to see a couple of videos on some red dots on concealed pistols specific to two or three red dots that you recommend. Also I ordered some gear from your website and I just want to say thank you for making the choice to choose premium products the T-shirts feel like cotton dipped in butter!
I was unaware that you sometimes use an offset red dot. I have a rifle set up like this. It feels comfortable and natural to me, but I tend to take some crap for it. I really don't care what others think as I feel it's to each his own, but I'm glad to see my preference validated. I also sometimes have the red dot mounted closer to my face and sometimes further away. It just depends on the type of red dot and the type of weapon it's mounted on. It's okay to observe what others do and to listen to their advice and opinions, but you do for you what works for you and what's comfortable for you. You all made that clear.
I shoot 3 gun competition and I agree with Colin on the 45 position. Two things I realized. First rotating slightly to go from close shoot red dot to long range scope is faster and keeps you at aim point. Second is having dot that high off barrel will change your zero very quickly. Being close to barrel helps to keep you shooting more flat from close to further.
I like Colion's set up.
Another awesome video my man!
Hopefully one day i get to meet you I go to that range often love your channel 🔥
Great video. I've heard that if you hang your arms loosely at your side, bring them up to shoulder height, and see how your hands are rotated. That's your natural shooting position. Mine is also a ~45° cant. Shooting really is a "do what works for you, to each his own" kinda sport.
it would have been nice to see them swap long guns and try out each others setup.
Yep. That's some of the best training. "Here, try it again but with MY set-up."
Not flexing, but I have several set-ups to try out every possible way to see what works best for me and what works best on THAT specific rifle/weapon.
When you are building retro kits or even clones, and you want to shoot them, you see the how/why people had their set-ups the way they did.
I found a lot of things that worked for me and a few that will never work for me, but I tried out as many as I could.
I think if you ever shot with the Unity mounts regularly, the red dot on top of the LPVO would seem a more natural transition since the height over bore seems similar.
Awesome video!!
Thanks Colion
I have a 1-8 lpvo with a delta point pro on a 45 degree offset. This video helped me realize the pros and cons of both and further backed the reason I run the reddot canted. When it’s on top it makes me shift my head position vs where on the side I just have to tilt the rifle and the dot is right there. (And yes it is mounted further up like how you have it)
That's exactly how i have mine as well. On top is to damn high. I understand if u have nods though....to each he's own. We're all built differently.
Great video great info
Run at the top. If you need to “pie a corner”, placing it on either side, exposes more of your body than you’d need and train differently for each side. If you can, standardize training for both sides. @5:19, “I don’t want to come out too much” he’s showing why to place it at top.
I'm with you on the 45 deg. I run that with red dot as well as my BUS on my AR pistols and carbine length. I call it my Gangsta sights.
You guys forgot the most important point, a dot on an angle looks way cooler than one a 12 o clock
Coolness always trumps effectiveness.
Every time.
Mr. Noir. I run my backup reflex red dot like you. 45 degrees and forward of the mag well while my main optic is a red dot at the mag well. I see too many people placing red dots as far back as the charging handle. Thinking of going to a LPVO like a 1x10 or 2x7. I use a right handed AR left handed only because I lost my right eye in the Suck in 95. Keep training Warriors. The Green light is about to be on.
I have run an RDS coupled with a LPVO or MPVO in both positions (12 o'clock & 45 degree offset). I finally decided on the 12 o'clock location since that also gives me Passive Aiming with my Night Vision setup (PVS-14).
I wish I could get training in like this in these videos in my area where I live.
I offset mine on the front slot of the badger c1. Easy to pick up and still can aim through nods in that position with a 1.70 height
I like Colions' stance the way his is mounted. He still has a good shoulder base to move with the gun, and still shoot traditionally.
I mount mine under the handguard so it doesn't get wet when it rains
Multiple setups but my "GPR" i run an lpvo with a 12 o clock piggyback t2 towards the front of my LPVO. I hardly ever use it during the day, but for NVG it is super nice
1:42 hahaha 😆 That guy makes a good point regarding red dots on top. I've always felt it's more natural at a 45-degree angle because I can more quickly transition *from my scope to the dot* and I still have a cheek weld. But (and this suddenly sounds super obvious) in the vast majority of the situations, you will be transferring *from the dot to the scope* --and you can use a chin weld and you have better left and right situational awareness. I gotta give it a shot.
One downside you can't escape though: the massive height over bore. So if you're talking about using the dot for a hostage shot (like they practiced in this video), that would be VERY tricky at variable CQB ranges (especially if it is just a dot--and not a reticle--and you have nothing fixed to use as a holdover marker).
Top mount dot also helps with passive night vision aiming.
Between that and the flexibility of ambidexterity, I prefer it if your scope's elevation turret doesn't obscure the dot and if the dot doesn't require an obscenely tall riser.
The 30 or 45 degree offset has its place on a high power optic on a DMR/SPR setup though.
I run the red dot at 12. Easier for me to just come off the scope, peek up and be back on target.
Depending on what you like sute kit to fast fluid and quiet Mr atog 2 on right side right dominated but Tran ambi easier for prone situations top with periscope for cqb
My fav is a 508T on a AD 33° qd mount.
I have an astigmatism. Also when you're in the dark then you kick in a door and turn on your white light.. you're not gonna be able to see that red dot without turning it up too bright for outside. I like traditional black reticle... doesn't need power and never gets bled out... except by darkness or black. That's why I have the option to illuminate my reticle. Flip up iron that stay flipped up are my backup
For me I prefer a top mount but my brother prefers an angled mount.
It’s quite interesting cause for him the 45 is the most comfortable while I can’t do it whatsoever
That's the best use that I have ever seen for old tires. How did they stuff them inside each other?
Ive had my go to rifle set up in both ways (prism instead of lpvo) lot of rounds and time with both setups. In my opinion up top is the way to go. Working corners with an offset is harder than and optic mounted on the top. One unique thing about the tall 12 o'clock mount is that it allows me to shoot left handed, i was born with very limited vision in my left eye so shooting even with a red dot with it isnt possible but the higher mount allows me to shoot left handed on right hand corners/cover while using my right eye. The other pluses of it are great (negatives obviously being height over bore and maybe an ok chin weld) but the fact that i can work right hand corners with a bum left eye sold it for me 100%
Great video, seen some people rant about not running the red dot at an angle, but have often wondered if it feels natural wouldn’t it be good. Also interested to know do you sight your red dot at the same distance as your scope, or at shorter distances for cqb situations?
I keep an eye on it..👌😉
I’m happy to see recycled tires put to good use.😊
Sure am glad for modern rails and slots . . .
IMO too many AR's look like the nut & bolt aisle at Home Depot -- hardware everywhere!
Might I suggest ... swapping sights as needed?
What are you using the gun for? If I was racing into a school to run down a shooter, the reflex-type red dot, mounted way forward, is my choice for fast target acquisition and situational awareness.
Past, say, fifty yards you really want to get the right grip and AIM the thing. That's when the reflex comes off and the ACOG goes on. Maybe the next fashion in gear will be enlarged / extended mounting screw heads . . .
i like to put like 4 vortex red dots in a row on the bottom rail so if i scratch something in the dirt atleast its under warranty
Consistency is important. Switching back and forth from standard top mount and 45° offset is inconsistent.
Nice to see someone actually using their Radian Mod 1.
Honestly I want to know where this range is at
Awesomeness 👌
Don't like mag on my AR; tunnel vision. I run Iron sights/Eotech on DPMS AP4 (.308/7.62); iron sights only on my M1A
I hate it when people try and change standard terminology. High Ready has the butt at the waist and angled up so you're looking over the top of the muzzle. Reverse the positions, butt at your shoulder and the muzzle pointing down, for Low Ready. Low Ready is a position you can carry your rifle for extended periods of time. The main reason for the red dot at 12 o'clock, is using it wearing NODs.
I was taught High Ready being: but in the shoulder ,slight angle down ,looking over your sights.
Scope on top red dot on 45° that way you have your long distance and up close covered.
i have an ak with a side mount on the left that has a red dot rail half way up that mount (ak master mount), so its a 45 but on the left. i also have a cheek riser so i wouldnt be able to go to the right side anyway. it works.
Clearing rooms without flashbangs or frags.
Good information. How did u do shooting, trying your red dot in different position?
I'm a southpaw, I run open sight on the 45 degree turn, into my body , I like the idea of the red dot on a 45 ..
Omg that sideways meme section was lethal.
Colion, have you ever thought of taking a pistol red dot class from modern Samuri project?
I LOVE Nic's gun, can I get one like it? In my country the government don't want to give us license for AR 15.
I run mine forward but my brother likes his back close. I think like you guys said, run what works for you. I still shoot better.😂😂😂🤷♂️🤦♂️I tried one on top of the optic but I couldn’t adjust as well. Everyone is different so i would imagine their preferences are as well.
I prefer height over cant. You can train to run @ 45*, but if it doesn’t feel natural it won’t be instinctive. I’d rather keep everything the same if possible.
Fashion question: What Kuhl long sleeve sunshirt do you prefer?
I run it behind my lpvo but on the left side since I’m left handed
It all comes down to what's most effective and personal preference for the individual.
Depends
You should do something like this but with scary targets to shoot
I am a 45 cant guy. I dont like the 12:00 at all. I mean with training you can get use to anything I believe.
Also - we shouldnt forget - this is a secondary optic - not the primary.
Nice vid.
Top Mount for ambidexterity and nods
What about swapping the scope with the red dot and having the scope canted? The red dot is often used as a quick shots and fast follow up shots. Close quarters, etc. And the scopes are usually slower and require more steady hold. Sometimes on a rest. With them being swapped it seems like they can perform their respective jobs between
I have the new Springfield Echelon, do you have a review video on this gun?
If you’re left handed you can run it on the rear canted
I have my vortex spitfire towards the middle.
About 3 inches to my eye.
Just right for me
What about back up irons?
Any chance you can do another video on Massachusetts new Gun bill they passed yesterday after bending the rules and adding it onto another bill. Crazy how these reps don’t listen.
You should have your own booth at a gun show or have a q&a
Curious on the scenario where you would go from interior clearance to far-ish shots. No judgement or criticism. Just interested where that would occur
one hundred concepts hex caps are sexy
Good to see a Gun Tuber back on the Range.
I'm not comfortable with my AR-15 pointed at my feet. The typical AR sling isn't for me. Also I can't get used to shooting with earmuffs. I keep bumping the ear muffs on the stock trying to get a sight picture through a scope or the red dot.
This is one reason I use 2 point slings, the rifle points towards my non-dominant side and not at my feet.
As far as the earmuffs are you using slim cup or "shooter" style ear muffs or traditional large cup earmuffs?
Using bulky ear muffs I bump them on the stock and can't get comfortable, but since I bought a pair of Walkers Razor slim ear muffs I don't have this problem nearly as much.
LPVO on top, red dot on the 45 with absolute cowhitness iron sights turns a gas station pocket knife into an elite level multi tool. Let the scope break, let the red dot batteries go dead, and I still have flip up irons available, and if those by some wild off chance should break, I'll spray and pray.
That's good that your elbow acts as a rest, because why do you have a bipod on that rifle when you're not going to use it for longer range targets?
What mounts do you use for the for the top mount setup and which do you use for the 45 degree angle setup?
Nice
The only negative I can think of when running sights at the 45 deg offset is if the firearm is a shared rifle, especially if your significant other is opposite handed.