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Main bus is an awesome idea, but it's usecase is quite limited in this game. For the permanent parts it's just easier to provide the right amount of resources and paint and feed those two trains in the correct factory. Especially in the shape you did splitting side by side vs cutting reduces the number of mined resources in half. When you go into the logic and automating production it's a completely different story. Then a main bus becomes mendatory, because you don't know what shapes are beeing produced. The way you build i would beef up the color train on the main bus to 6 or 8 wagons and maybe even a load-balancer + storage layer, that just connects all paint wagons, so you draw paint evenly from the main bus. Could also be an idea for the shapes. Even so i'm unsure how to do a shape load balancer at your scale.
One small change you could make is making sure there is enough room on the rails for other trains to pass.. 42:16 Bottom right, blue train got stuck behind the red.. Looks like it's only an extra rail needed.. 💚
Honestly, I just don't really see the purpose in building a main bus type setup in this game. It makes perfect sense in factorio, but this isn't factorio. Factorio does a whole lot of things that encourage that play style. In shapez 2, I just find it's a lot more practical to just send the supplies you need for a task to some centralized local build site and use them right there to make whatever it is you're needing. But that's just like... My opinion man...
@@ColonelSandersLite true. but for those of us who are either new to factory games (and shapez is their first game of the genre) or haven't played games where it would make sense (like factorio) then it's good to be exposed to the idea when it's not required.
37:01 to 37:18 Based on the whole, "doesnt matter where the station is, the trains will always go to the furthest stations" you dont need to move all the train stations to the furthest feeding line outpost every time you add one, its fascinating how the lack of complexity in train logic can be used to your advantage in this case
As a mean to 'tag' a shape (so you can always see it for reference), I don't know if anybody else has a better suggestion but I've been using map markers. Tap 'L' (by default) to place what they *call* a map marker, but it doesn't actually place a marker on the map as far as I can tell. It really just saves your camera position, and puts an button on the right side of the screen that snaps you back to that camera position when you click on it. But you can put any shape code in as the name for the marker and it will display that shape on the side button. You can't examine it closely or go into the exploded view, but it's a quick reference that's always visible and has come in quite handy. Also, any shape you can examine (i.e. get that exploded view) has a button to copy the shape code to your clipboard. So just hit that, tap L, paste the code and hit enter. Super quick and easy, and a simple right-click to delete them when you're done.
I'm sure you already figured this out but underground belts take the same amount of platforms (6) regardless of distance. And since traintracks don't take any, at 23:00 there was no benefit to get them closer other than the aestetic one, which granted is sometimes the most important one :D
@35:50 - You could also solve that issue by using a different color train for each delivery platform, but that would require putting red paint on non-red trains.
You can save a lot of platform units if you consolidate your space belt lines by using crossover platforms. I have a standardized South-to-North straight through platform, and have an East-to-West line running through it, saved. It's easy to flip and rotate and it gets rid of a lot of headache when trying to save space in bigger builds.
I made a set of intersection platforms. N/S and E/W are straight through (launchers in the middle to cross each other,) and I made one where both are solids, both are fluids, and one is solid with one fluid. Using rotation and mirroring, you can get all directional combinations from those.
Never thought about this, I'm gonna have to make some of my own blueprints. That'll help clean up those windy space belts I hate having to run for more complicated builds. Nice!
@@ConflictZv Yeah, it really helps especially when you have 2 trains delivering to the same side of a factory. You can stagger the inputs and have the output cross over the inputs without issue
One more thing about trains that I've found, rails are free and space is infinite, so it always makes more sense to isolate the train lines and use more rail to avoid routing and congestion, even though it defeats the purpose of having a "train network". It's more costly on space but cheaper on platform points since the train stations can be much simpler without the need for multiple complex interchanges. Edit: Until we have more than 4 routing options I suppose. Although now that I think about it, perhaps the constraint is also intentionally part of the puzzle, having to keep each train network confined to just 4 routes, interesting consideration. This game is just a puzzle within a puzzle within a puzzle after all.
I go for the vortex unlock asap and yeet the 'required shape' trains into the hub. No return trip (they magically respawn at origin) and no color coding needed. 2x delivery speed is a very powerful boost. While it feels satisfying to organize factories in one area I'm not convinced it's more efficient.
Very interesting take on both the bus (or maybe we should just begin calling it The Train) and build. I'm not actually sure that it's more efficient than supplying each milestone build directly, but if it is, then it's worth looking into.
I found the best thing to do for the paint loading and unload points is to add a platform full of storage tanks to provide a buffer. Particularly helpful when you first start a factory as it minimises the delays in startup. The tanks fill up when demand is low or between builds.
That train thing happened to me yesterday, I was so confused till I started to track the trains movement and then I realized what was happening. I entered discord and saw that it's a thing with the trains and the way they interact with lanes
What great timing, I was just getting to the point in my playthrough where I was trying to decide how I was going to handle logistics for my larger milestone builds. This is a great design, and it’s really helpful that you’ve figure out a lot of the quirks and gotchas that can spring up
The only thing you can really do to scale your train network conveniently is to just have up to 4 mining outposts on the same rail, and a unique color for every mining outpost. We can't really get the complex train systems like factorio without the detailed control of their behavior.
Thank you for all your content! Been around since Factorio masterclasses, through DSP, Satisfactory, some interesting one-offs like Oddsparks and now Shapez 2. So, was finally able to throw some support through Patreon. Thank you for sharing your design work, it helps me a ton to not have to build my own tools in games like this one, and instead I can focus on how to apply them.
To be honest, I'd find a patch with a couple shapes that have all the necessary parts, slice them, paint them, reassemble in shapes I need and send on their merry way to the void. And use clean shapes for the last two parts where they actually needed.
5:40 you dont need to bring back the train to the Mainline after unloading. In Fact its slower if you build the rail back to the Mainline, because the train can return to loading directly after unloading on the back side of the Rail. If it goes back to Mainline it will go to the ende of the Mainline, return on the back side, and then go through the unload station. So more travel time, more train traffic on the Mainline etc.
Having made a bus-like design myself, I would offer two "improvements" (really up to taste, but still). The first one, I have made my bus circular. I just pulled it around the 9 regions with the vortex in the center. It takes care of the train returning problem in that they will all just keep circling the bus indefinitely. You can just make one big train station at a junction joining into the circular bus somewhere. And it is easy to expand as well if you really need to (but I find 3x3 regions is plenty of space for most sane factories.) The only thing you need to watch is not accidentally having trains go to the underside when you are making changes to the track anywhere (pause is your friend). The second improvement, you can just have shapes and fluids on a single bus. I mean, sure, the trains will stop at each others stations, but the shape trains don't load/unload fluids and vice versa, and in my experience the increased traffic at your stations is not a problem, and the increased time it takes for the trains to go around the bus is easily solved by having a few more trains.
Oh, and finally, use the white line for white paint. Just make a huge white paint mixer station somewhere. Then you only need to do 2-color mixes on the spot and just pull white from the main bus.
35:21 take a look at how the red trains are unloading, the second train wait the first train finish to unload on the left unloader to start unloading on the right unloader, then proceeds to unload on the left unloader and the cycle repeats with the next train
I think this issue only occurred because he released a lot of trains onto the line all at once. The second time round they will have spaced themselves out to the correct distance and should not conflict as much.
I have an idea to mix colours. You will need a 1 by 1 space platform Make sure the colours are coming from the opposite side from the 1 by 1 space platform. On the left side connect all of the columns and put it on the top floor. Make sure to put the pipes are one space apart. Then place four colour mixers next to each other and stack them on all three floors. Connect the pipes to the colour mixer. Make sure it's on the same input with each other. On the other side connect all the pipes that are going into the platform and put it on the bottom left then build the pipe to the other side. connect it on the bottom empty inputs then fill the remaining empty inputs. mirror that action on the other side. But when you are building the pipe to the other side use the middle floor.
I find mixing white off the bus and bringing it in help a lot with color scaling. It’s easy since you can use the white train. I will do the violet, yellow and teal in the builds using the base colors, but you could include a third main lane for for the secondary colors.
Thanks for this series. I am little bit ahead in my own game and it is interesting to see how you take double throughput from half of area. I wait impatiently to see how you will build an automatic factory with logistic circuits.
For mine, I had outposts taking in the 4 basic shapes then I had a train for each bus station. The paint was on a separate line with rbg and cmyw at 2 stations Its a cool idea, but I don't think it will be practical. I make dedicated permanent factories for the milestones and they are much less in platform cost. At op level 98. I do though use a version of your earlier bus for the smaller tasks, thanks.
Loving both the game and this series. I did a "workshop" of my own design for performing tasks. It's a little different from yours in ways that I like and most people probably wouldn't care too much about except that it's a lot easier for me to do more than 12 belts for a task meaning they don't take quite so long to complete.
Loving the serious so far, I'm playing along on my own save and it's so interesting seeing the ways you do things differently than I do. I definitely stole your painter blueprint as I was having trouble coming up with my own lol. The train bus is very impressive but I feel like it's overly complicated for what it needs to do. My own workshop has 20 input lanes for shapes, 4 of each basic shape and 4 more free lines for random wild shapes I may want to bring in, distributed across 4 levels, and along the bottom had 28 input lane for color, 7 colors across 4 levels, secondary and tertiary colors are pre mixed at the extractors, then everything outputs to train stations on the right. Everything within the workshop area gets routed with belts, and each input train runs on its own line to avoid routing and congestion issues. I have 3 working iterations as well as 2 decommissioned ones just to be able to look back and see my improvements. The entire system with miners and everything range from around 7k platform points for the largest and most advanced version to around 4.5-5k for the simplest version though if I wanted to I could probably make a very efficient version for around 3k. I don't know if it's the best way but it works for me, does everything I need it to, is 100% efficient and was super fun to build and improve on! Hopefully some of this helps! Edit: Oh and one of the improvements was to place the center of the workshop at the point where 4 world squares converge, that way you have easy lines for measuring and making symmetrical builds! Sorry was proud of that one haha.
you cannot really expand this much since trains can not turn around. they really are ment as point to point transports ... ... yet. i hope they change that in the future so that you can set up trains by assigning them stations (and wait for full loads)
Thanks for demonstrating the problem, I hope they at least make trains return to their originating depot when traveling on the underside rather than the current behavior of “go straight ignoring all turns until reaching the end”…
Cool trick to isolate the train networks. 34:36 you are merging 2 full space belts from the miners into 1 space belt before the train loaders. That's clearly a bottleneck.
@@jomialsipi Due to the fluid launcher limit of 1800, each fluid mining platform with 3 extensions can add a maximum of 1800 to each of the 4 lanes on a single level. So to fully saturate a space pipe on a single layer, you'd need (7200/1800) = 4 fluid miner setups. And that's just for a single layer. To get all 3 layers fully saturated at 7200 L/m in the space pipe, you'd need 12 miner setups (4 for each of the 3 layers). Also, one fun (maybe strange) thing is that the incoming Fluid Catchers on platforms can handle WAY more than the indicated 1800 L/m. You can see this if you attach a whole bunch of fluid storage to the end of a saturated pipe. Or even chain these storages together - you'll see the input from the space pipe is around 4x the output from the storage platform. So I think they might be providing the full 7200 L/m to each lane of each layer when full saturated.
Those aren't Space Belts, but rather Space Pipes. They have a different throughput, though I don't think it mentions it anywhere. Space Belts can hold 12 lanes' worth of solid materials, while Space Pipes can hold 72 lanes' worth of fluid. Or to put it a different way, one fully saturated Space Belt can be supplied by 3x Shape Miners and emptied into 1x Shape Loader. One fully saturated Space Pipe can be supplied by 18x Fluid Miners and emptied into 6x Fluid Loaders.
Very nice design, I may use some of that when I try to make MAM. But until they integrate logic to trains, I will stick with outpost style milestone builds.
I like the idea of branching off and merging in train lines by reloading to different train! so now there is 3 solutions for the return branching problem: everything is sequential, sink all feeder train vortex and this reloading one, and so far I like reloading the most. We'll see how it scales. Did I understand correctly that you have different main busses for milestones and tasks with different train configuration? You seem to have too many wagons and belts for paint. Space pipes can handle more capacity, so you only need 1 pipe per 4 belts. And so probably 1 wagon liquid trains should be enough.
I totally agree, trains should just rember where they came from that already would make it a lot easier to do multiple inputs. I also had to learn this the hard way. It would also be nice to give them names and use the color as more of a distinguishing factor than actually use them for control. Multiple builds take more than 4 inputs and then you have to use multiple dedicated lines and remember where each of your sources is coming from. In my factory I use a different strategy. I am producing each level somewhere out in the world and then have an aggregation station where all are just stacked up. Until I have to use crystals that's totally fine for me :D however having a mainbus sounds interesting, but without proper train controls I think I keep my outposts :D
I keep learning things not intended such as the folders for the blueprints. I was pasting a blueprint with all the options and deleting what I didn't need. LOL. I could just create a folder and put the options in it.
I was curious to see if using trains was more efficient than the compact crossover method I've been using. So I built your shape using my blueprints (I run everything off 8 lane/96 belts), and I don't think it really saves on platform units. You have 4 lanes/48 belts using 1405 platforms, 1900 platform units, 49.5k buildings, in a 99x51(5049) area, with (I saw 20, 10 inbound, 9 transfer, 1 outbound) trains. My build is 8/96 is 2649 p's, 3534 pu's, 211k b's, in a 96x70(6720) area, with 13 inbound/1 outbound train. (And I'm sure there are others who could improve on my design) Rough math would indicate 1325 p's(-80), and 1767 pu's(-133) for 4 lanes. Given that pu's are the primary resource to conserve, as is it seems to be less expensive. It also has the added benefit of not having to worry about the current limitations with trains, like not branching out to nodes properly, or the inconsistent unloading that causes delays/jams. (Hopefully these issues will be patched soon)
Why not deliver all 7 colors to your "building zone" and have everything mixed offsite? Otherwise you're going to repeatedly build the color mixers when you could just build them one time.
i think the concept with main-Bus, feeder Line and offbranch is way too complicated without any benefit. The only thing is, it looks kinda cool. But mor or less unnecessary because there is always a fixed amount of input you need for a specific build. And sinse the Miners never run out, it is way easier to connect the miners via train directly to where it is unloaded. No feeder line, no branching, so you save ALOT of platformpoints.
I understand why the trains use two stops with two loaders/unloaders each at the stations where the stuff is actually fed into a factory platform. But why is it done at the transfer stations, where e.g. rectangles transfer from the main train line to the shape-specific line? If you're just transferring shapes from one train to another, wouldn't four unloaders next to each other feeding into four loaders be just as fast, but half as big?
I had the same thought. The extra stop is desired when loading into the factory to preserve extra spacing for layout purposes, but at the transfer point between main and branch lines, it delays the trains without a noticeable benefit. Perhaps it's for aesthetics - keeping all train stops identical throughout the base?
"be an absolute mess of many many belts" ... Yeah Im on the normal difficulty and made 20 space belts worth of the 7th Milestone and at one point I cheat and do what you did to move them all
Since you have the mixer working on 3 levels, couldn't you alternate the colors that you use for the single color. That should even out the usage of the 3 colors
Maybe redesign your white painter so it takes 1/3rd of every color rather than 25%/25%/50%? Can't you combine secondary colors together to make white? If so, with 6 color combiners, each base color can go into 4 inputs and then the secondaries can go into another set of 6 combiners, with 4 inputs per color.
I understand the reasoning behind why train load/unload stations are spaced 1 platform apart. However, is there a reason why you are using 2 train stops per load/unload station, rather than simply using 1 train stop with filler wagons to create the required spacing?
@@Nilaus I just rewatched the episode and realised that you explained it in the video, I must have missed it the first time! Great series by the way, thank you for all your work :)
It's to put an extra space between the unloader tiles, so he has room for undergroundies (underspacies?) and stackers between his tiles. The same effect could be achieved with filler wagons, but wagons take up platform units while train stops do not.
Did he actually say that? 😂 I didn't notice. Yeah, I'm sure many viewers are quite skilled in maths and are probably also factory games veterans. It can't be avoided - these games attract a certain crowd! 😉
![MAKE ANYTHING MACHINE [MAM]: Shape Selector | 01 | Shapez 2 | Guide/Tutorial](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E6qntnB09YU/mqdefault.jpg)
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Main bus is an awesome idea, but it's usecase is quite limited in this game. For the permanent parts it's just easier to provide the right amount of resources and paint and feed those two trains in the correct factory. Especially in the shape you did splitting side by side vs cutting reduces the number of mined resources in half.
When you go into the logic and automating production it's a completely different story. Then a main bus becomes mendatory, because you don't know what shapes are beeing produced.
The way you build i would beef up the color train on the main bus to 6 or 8 wagons and maybe even a load-balancer + storage layer, that just connects all paint wagons, so you draw paint evenly from the main bus. Could also be an idea for the shapes. Even so i'm unsure how to do a shape load balancer at your scale.
One small change you could make is making sure there is enough room on the rails for other trains to pass.. 42:16 Bottom right, blue train got stuck behind the red.. Looks like it's only an extra rail needed.. 💚
Main bus is not boring! This is the cool part!
Honestly, I just don't really see the purpose in building a main bus type setup in this game. It makes perfect sense in factorio, but this isn't factorio.
Factorio does a whole lot of things that encourage that play style.
In shapez 2, I just find it's a lot more practical to just send the supplies you need for a task to some centralized local build site and use them right there to make whatever it is you're needing.
But that's just like... My opinion man...
@@ColonelSandersLite true. but for those of us who are either new to factory games (and shapez is their first game of the genre) or haven't played games where it would make sense (like factorio) then it's good to be exposed to the idea when it's not required.
Fantastic thumbnail, really shows a useful overview of the build! 🎉🙏🏾
37:01 to 37:18
Based on the whole, "doesnt matter where the station is, the trains will always go to the furthest stations" you dont need to move all the train stations to the furthest feeding line outpost every time you add one, its fascinating how the lack of complexity in train logic can be used to your advantage in this case
As a mean to 'tag' a shape (so you can always see it for reference), I don't know if anybody else has a better suggestion but I've been using map markers.
Tap 'L' (by default) to place what they *call* a map marker, but it doesn't actually place a marker on the map as far as I can tell. It really just saves your camera position, and puts an button on the right side of the screen that snaps you back to that camera position when you click on it. But you can put any shape code in as the name for the marker and it will display that shape on the side button. You can't examine it closely or go into the exploded view, but it's a quick reference that's always visible and has come in quite handy.
Also, any shape you can examine (i.e. get that exploded view) has a button to copy the shape code to your clipboard. So just hit that, tap L, paste the code and hit enter. Super quick and easy, and a simple right-click to delete them when you're done.
They've since patched it; the map markers show up now.
*new factory building game out*
Nilaus: MAIN BUS
facts ahahhaha everywhere! but they are masterpieces!
CITY BLOCKS
this game already has them though
@@p1ngerss the old train station is literally city block train station blueprint, lmao
I'm sure you already figured this out but underground belts take the same amount of platforms (6) regardless of distance. And since traintracks don't take any, at 23:00 there was no benefit to get them closer other than the aestetic one, which granted is sometimes the most important one :D
@35:50 - You could also solve that issue by using a different color train for each delivery platform, but that would require putting red paint on non-red trains.
You can save a lot of platform units if you consolidate your space belt lines by using crossover platforms. I have a standardized South-to-North straight through platform, and have an East-to-West line running through it, saved. It's easy to flip and rotate and it gets rid of a lot of headache when trying to save space in bigger builds.
Oh nice, that'll save me a lot of spaghetti.
I made a set of intersection platforms. N/S and E/W are straight through (launchers in the middle to cross each other,) and I made one where both are solids, both are fluids, and one is solid with one fluid. Using rotation and mirroring, you can get all directional combinations from those.
Agreed, this works for fluids too and shapes plus fluids.
Never thought about this, I'm gonna have to make some of my own blueprints. That'll help clean up those windy space belts I hate having to run for more complicated builds. Nice!
@@ConflictZv Yeah, it really helps especially when you have 2 trains delivering to the same side of a factory. You can stagger the inputs and have the output cross over the inputs without issue
One more thing about trains that I've found, rails are free and space is infinite, so it always makes more sense to isolate the train lines and use more rail to avoid routing and congestion, even though it defeats the purpose of having a "train network". It's more costly on space but cheaper on platform points since the train stations can be much simpler without the need for multiple complex interchanges.
Edit: Until we have more than 4 routing options I suppose. Although now that I think about it, perhaps the constraint is also intentionally part of the puzzle, having to keep each train network confined to just 4 routes, interesting consideration. This game is just a puzzle within a puzzle within a puzzle after all.
I go for the vortex unlock asap and yeet the 'required shape' trains into the hub. No return trip (they magically respawn at origin) and no color coding needed. 2x delivery speed is a very powerful boost. While it feels satisfying to organize factories in one area I'm not convinced it's more efficient.
Very interesting take on both the bus (or maybe we should just begin calling it The Train) and build.
I'm not actually sure that it's more efficient than supplying each milestone build directly, but if it is, then it's worth looking into.
I found the best thing to do for the paint loading and unload points is to add a platform full of storage tanks to provide a buffer. Particularly helpful when you first start a factory as it minimises the delays in startup. The tanks fill up when demand is low or between builds.
That train thing happened to me yesterday, I was so confused till I started to track the trains movement and then I realized what was happening. I entered discord and saw that it's a thing with the trains and the way they interact with lanes
What great timing, I was just getting to the point in my playthrough where I was trying to decide how I was going to handle logistics for my larger milestone builds. This is a great design, and it’s really helpful that you’ve figure out a lot of the quirks and gotchas that can spring up
you can add map markers with the "l" hotkey, then put in shape code. It also makes it zoom to that part of the map when you click it on the sidebar
The only thing you can really do to scale your train network conveniently is to just have up to 4 mining outposts on the same rail, and a unique color for every mining outpost. We can't really get the complex train systems like factorio without the detailed control of their behavior.
Nilaus, you know we'd never think a main bus is boring.
Thank you for all your content! Been around since Factorio masterclasses, through DSP, Satisfactory, some interesting one-offs like Oddsparks and now Shapez 2. So, was finally able to throw some support through Patreon. Thank you for sharing your design work, it helps me a ton to not have to build my own tools in games like this one, and instead I can focus on how to apply them.
To be honest, I'd find a patch with a couple shapes that have all the necessary parts, slice them, paint them, reassemble in shapes I need and send on their merry way to the void. And use clean shapes for the last two parts where they actually needed.
5:40 you dont need to bring back the train to the Mainline after unloading. In Fact its slower if you build the rail back to the Mainline, because the train can return to loading directly after unloading on the back side of the Rail.
If it goes back to Mainline it will go to the ende of the Mainline, return on the back side, and then go through the unload station. So more travel time, more train traffic on the Mainline etc.
The train needs to call at multiple unloading stations.
@@speedstyle. then ok, but i.e. the offbranch at 11:43 doesnt need to go to multiple stations.
Having made a bus-like design myself, I would offer two "improvements" (really up to taste, but still). The first one, I have made my bus circular. I just pulled it around the 9 regions with the vortex in the center. It takes care of the train returning problem in that they will all just keep circling the bus indefinitely. You can just make one big train station at a junction joining into the circular bus somewhere. And it is easy to expand as well if you really need to (but I find 3x3 regions is plenty of space for most sane factories.) The only thing you need to watch is not accidentally having trains go to the underside when you are making changes to the track anywhere (pause is your friend). The second improvement, you can just have shapes and fluids on a single bus. I mean, sure, the trains will stop at each others stations, but the shape trains don't load/unload fluids and vice versa, and in my experience the increased traffic at your stations is not a problem, and the increased time it takes for the trains to go around the bus is easily solved by having a few more trains.
Oh, and finally, use the white line for white paint. Just make a huge white paint mixer station somewhere. Then you only need to do 2-color mixes on the spot and just pull white from the main bus.
35:21 take a look at how the red trains are unloading, the second train wait the first train finish to unload on the left unloader to start unloading on the right unloader, then proceeds to unload on the left unloader and the cycle repeats with the next train
Yep, needs one empty track between the two stations.
I think this issue only occurred because he released a lot of trains onto the line all at once. The second time round they will have spaced themselves out to the correct distance and should not conflict as much.
this is the most constructive comment section ive ever seen 🎸
always on this channel :)
I have an idea to mix colours. You will need a 1 by 1 space platform Make sure the colours are coming from the opposite side from the 1 by 1 space platform. On the left side connect all of the columns and put it on the top floor. Make sure to put the pipes are one space apart. Then place four colour mixers next to each other and stack them on all three floors. Connect the pipes to the colour mixer. Make sure it's on the same input with each other. On the other side connect all the pipes that are going into the platform and put it on the bottom left then build the pipe to the other side. connect it on the bottom empty inputs then fill the remaining empty inputs. mirror that action on the other side. But when you are building the pipe to the other side use the middle floor.
I find mixing white off the bus and bringing it in help a lot with color scaling. It’s easy since you can use the white train. I will do the violet, yellow and teal in the builds using the base colors, but you could include a third main lane for for the secondary colors.
I am always amazed by your ability to problem solve and jigsaw puzzle your way through games like this.
Thanks for this series. I am little bit ahead in my own game and it is interesting to see how you take double throughput from half of area. I wait impatiently to see how you will build an automatic factory with logistic circuits.
For mine, I had outposts taking in the 4 basic shapes then I had a train for each bus station. The paint was on a separate line with rbg and cmyw at 2 stations
Its a cool idea, but I don't think it will be practical. I make dedicated permanent factories for the milestones and they are much less in platform cost. At op level 98. I do though use a version of your earlier bus for the smaller tasks, thanks.
With three layers you can balance making white by having each color do double on one floor each so that they're balanced.
Loving both the game and this series. I did a "workshop" of my own design for performing tasks. It's a little different from yours in ways that I like and most people probably wouldn't care too much about except that it's a lot easier for me to do more than 12 belts for a task meaning they don't take quite so long to complete.
I'm totally hooked on this game atm. Awesome vid 👍
Loving the serious so far, I'm playing along on my own save and it's so interesting seeing the ways you do things differently than I do. I definitely stole your painter blueprint as I was having trouble coming up with my own lol. The train bus is very impressive but I feel like it's overly complicated for what it needs to do. My own workshop has 20 input lanes for shapes, 4 of each basic shape and 4 more free lines for random wild shapes I may want to bring in, distributed across 4 levels, and along the bottom had 28 input lane for color, 7 colors across 4 levels, secondary and tertiary colors are pre mixed at the extractors, then everything outputs to train stations on the right. Everything within the workshop area gets routed with belts, and each input train runs on its own line to avoid routing and congestion issues. I have 3 working iterations as well as 2 decommissioned ones just to be able to look back and see my improvements. The entire system with miners and everything range from around 7k platform points for the largest and most advanced version to around 4.5-5k for the simplest version though if I wanted to I could probably make a very efficient version for around 3k. I don't know if it's the best way but it works for me, does everything I need it to, is 100% efficient and was super fun to build and improve on! Hopefully some of this helps!
Edit: Oh and one of the improvements was to place the center of the workshop at the point where 4 world squares converge, that way you have easy lines for measuring and making symmetrical builds! Sorry was proud of that one haha.
you cannot really expand this much since trains can not turn around. they really are ment as point to point transports ...
... yet. i hope they change that in the future so that you can set up trains by assigning them stations (and wait for full loads)
Great solution to the trains! Awesome series, thank you!
Thanks again for this video ! Don't you will make a video using logic circuit?
Thanks for demonstrating the problem, I hope they at least make trains return to their originating depot when traveling on the underside rather than the current behavior of “go straight ignoring all turns until reaching the end”…
Cool trick to isolate the train networks.
34:36 you are merging 2 full space belts from the miners into 1 space belt before the train loaders. That's clearly a bottleneck.
Paint lines have enough capacity for 6 miners right?
@@jomialsipi Due to the fluid launcher limit of 1800, each fluid mining platform with 3 extensions can add a maximum of 1800 to each of the 4 lanes on a single level. So to fully saturate a space pipe on a single layer, you'd need (7200/1800) = 4 fluid miner setups.
And that's just for a single layer. To get all 3 layers fully saturated at 7200 L/m in the space pipe, you'd need 12 miner setups (4 for each of the 3 layers).
Also, one fun (maybe strange) thing is that the incoming Fluid Catchers on platforms can handle WAY more than the indicated 1800 L/m. You can see this if you attach a whole bunch of fluid storage to the end of a saturated pipe. Or even chain these storages together - you'll see the input from the space pipe is around 4x the output from the storage platform. So I think they might be providing the full 7200 L/m to each lane of each layer when full saturated.
Those aren't Space Belts, but rather Space Pipes. They have a different throughput, though I don't think it mentions it anywhere. Space Belts can hold 12 lanes' worth of solid materials, while Space Pipes can hold 72 lanes' worth of fluid.
Or to put it a different way, one fully saturated Space Belt can be supplied by 3x Shape Miners and emptied into 1x Shape Loader. One fully saturated Space Pipe can be supplied by 18x Fluid Miners and emptied into 6x Fluid Loaders.
Very nice design, I may use some of that when I try to make MAM. But until they integrate logic to trains, I will stick with outpost style milestone builds.
You got me hooked!
You don't have to left click before tapping C on your keyboard. Just hover over what you're trying to pipette and push C.
I like the idea of branching off and merging in train lines by reloading to different train! so now there is 3 solutions for the return branching problem: everything is sequential, sink all feeder train vortex and this reloading one, and so far I like reloading the most. We'll see how it scales.
Did I understand correctly that you have different main busses for milestones and tasks with different train configuration?
You seem to have too many wagons and belts for paint. Space pipes can handle more capacity, so you only need 1 pipe per 4 belts. And so probably 1 wagon liquid trains should be enough.
Definitely pushing the limit of this simple colour train system
I totally agree, trains should just rember where they came from that already would make it a lot easier to do multiple inputs. I also had to learn this the hard way.
It would also be nice to give them names and use the color as more of a distinguishing factor than actually use them for control.
Multiple builds take more than 4 inputs and then you have to use multiple dedicated lines and remember where each of your sources is coming from.
In my factory I use a different strategy. I am producing each level somewhere out in the world and then have an aggregation station where all are just stacked up. Until I have to use crystals that's totally fine for me :D however having a mainbus sounds interesting, but without proper train controls I think I keep my outposts :D
I keep learning things not intended such as the folders for the blueprints. I was pasting a blueprint with all the options and deleting what I didn't need. LOL. I could just create a folder and put the options in it.
I was curious to see if using trains was more efficient than the compact crossover method I've been using. So I built your shape using my blueprints (I run everything off 8 lane/96 belts), and I don't think it really saves on platform units. You have 4 lanes/48 belts using 1405 platforms, 1900 platform units, 49.5k buildings, in a 99x51(5049) area, with (I saw 20, 10 inbound, 9 transfer, 1 outbound) trains. My build is 8/96 is 2649 p's, 3534 pu's, 211k b's, in a 96x70(6720) area, with 13 inbound/1 outbound train. (And I'm sure there are others who could improve on my design) Rough math would indicate 1325 p's(-80), and 1767 pu's(-133) for 4 lanes. Given that pu's are the primary resource to conserve, as is it seems to be less expensive. It also has the added benefit of not having to worry about the current limitations with trains, like not branching out to nodes properly, or the inconsistent unloading that causes delays/jams. (Hopefully these issues will be patched soon)
Well I am winding down for the day...this was the best way to be boring.
love this series!
Why not deliver all 7 colors to your "building zone" and have everything mixed offsite? Otherwise you're going to repeatedly build the color mixers when you could just build them one time.
i think the concept with main-Bus, feeder Line and offbranch is way too complicated without any benefit. The only thing is, it looks kinda cool. But mor or less unnecessary because there is always a fixed amount of input you need for a specific build. And sinse the Miners never run out, it is way easier to connect the miners via train directly to where it is unloaded. No feeder line, no branching, so you save ALOT of platformpoints.
Totally agree. Its easier and more optimal to find locations that work for a milestone and build as big as you wish
I guess it's a cool proof of concept of a bus design. But as you already pointed out it has few advantages and more disadvantages in this game.
Do you get less platforms on hard mode? Platforms haven't been a issue for me at all, but I play on normal mode
fREAKING AMAZING NILAUS
I understand why the trains use two stops with two loaders/unloaders each at the stations where the stuff is actually fed into a factory platform. But why is it done at the transfer stations, where e.g. rectangles transfer from the main train line to the shape-specific line? If you're just transferring shapes from one train to another, wouldn't four unloaders next to each other feeding into four loaders be just as fast, but half as big?
I had the same thought. The extra stop is desired when loading into the factory to preserve extra spacing for layout purposes, but at the transfer point between main and branch lines, it delays the trains without a noticeable benefit. Perhaps it's for aesthetics - keeping all train stops identical throughout the base?
Hi Nilaus, will you do another series with the hexagons after finishing this one?
Thank you!
Very cool!
love te series
Wow this is so boring, ill keep watching for 46m and beg for more “super boring “ content 😅
Thx for the videos
Oh, sorry I was wrong, it _was_ 360 per package. With your belt speed of 180/min, it should take 30 seconds to make a package.
"be an absolute mess of many many belts" ... Yeah Im on the normal difficulty and made 20 space belts worth of the 7th Milestone and at one point I cheat and do what you did to move them all
Since you have the mixer working on 3 levels, couldn't you alternate the colors that you use for the single color. That should even out the usage of the 3 colors
nice
White science lol
BIG BUS
Maybe redesign your white painter so it takes 1/3rd of every color rather than 25%/25%/50%? Can't you combine secondary colors together to make white? If so, with 6 color combiners, each base color can go into 4 inputs and then the secondaries can go into another set of 6 combiners, with 4 inputs per color.
I understand the reasoning behind why train load/unload stations are spaced 1 platform apart. However, is there a reason why you are using 2 train stops per load/unload station, rather than simply using 1 train stop with filler wagons to create the required spacing?
It saves a lot of platform points. That is the main limitation in the game
@@Nilaus I just rewatched the episode and realised that you explained it in the video, I must have missed it the first time! Great series by the way, thank you for all your work :)
I don't understand why two stops -- one to unload 1 & 3 and one to unload 2 & 4 -- are necessary. Why not one stop that unloads 1 - 4?
It's to put an extra space between the unloader tiles, so he has room for undergroundies (underspacies?) and stackers between his tiles. The same effect could be achieved with filler wagons, but wagons take up platform units while train stops do not.
did you study mathematics? „left as an exercise to the viewer”, „trivial” 😭
he has a master of engineering, so ya, lots and lots of math
Did he actually say that? 😂 I didn't notice. Yeah, I'm sure many viewers are quite skilled in maths and are probably also factory games veterans. It can't be avoided - these games attract a certain crowd! 😉
@@danielh.9010the „left as an exercise” was in the previous episode i believe
Not boring.
Hi ppl are not using trains to their full potential. 😢 Trains are your friends. Learn trains 🚂🚂
This game is awesome and your series is great but dang, boy, you're playing too fast and I can't keep up in my own playthrough!