But can it catch the Clio 197 at Oulton Park?!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 13 кві 2019
- • Download our FREE Track Driving Cheat Sheet to help improve your track driving: camberandcombustion.com/track...
Here we see what can only be described as a questionable display of driving techniques, as Matt thrashes Fil's Civic Type R to every last inch of its life, in an attempt to keep up with Alex in the Clio 197. As usual, much fun was had in the making of this video - let us know if you enjoyed it too!
Civic Type R EP3
- AEM V2 induction kit, decat & 3' exhaust
- Valvoline graphics (+15 bhp)
- Federal 595 tyres
Renault Clio RS 197
- ITG intake, Milltek exhaust, remap
- Eibach Pro-Street S Coilovers
- MRF ZTR semi-slicks
Follow us on our Instagram page for regular updates on our track driving shenanigans:
/ camberandcombustion - Авто та транспорт
I'm learning to have quite a bit of respect for these clio 197/200's
Those 4th to 2nd downshifts are brutal. Over revving the shit out of that k20 😂😂
The sheer unbridled joy of the passenger 😂
What a suspension difference :O EP3 leaning like a bus xD Seems like clio was much more on point in corners :)
Just come across this video and can’t say I’ve smiled this much in a long time! This is what these cars and track days are all about smiles for miles. Fair play to both drivers, fully committed and looking good whilst doing so !!!
This is literally one of my favorite cars videos, the amount of fun you guys were having has made me smile so much. Thank you for this! Epic driving! Damn!!! Makes me want to buy a Clio RS even more
that ep3 has basicaly no engine mods but still kept up with the modded and remaped clio. guess vtec is still a force to be reconed with. 😁 shifter needs a rebuild tho. normally honda shifters are great.
VTEC is most definitely a force to be reconed with 🔥 what an engine!
Yh but a remap does nothing for power on a clio. Maybe 5 hp.. Its more about smoothing it out
@@mrwick7961 in combination with exhaust and intake im sure it does more. but i dont know these french hatches as well. the k20 with a remap can do 10-20hp more. with some intake and exhaust bolt ons +remap a k20a2 will do 230hp+ pretty easy. but yeah honda is known for thier great n/a engines. honda jokes aside, but they know how to build quick little cars. 👌
Honda is just a little bit faster in straights stock. Im sure mapped clio is preety even or even faster than honda. And it has much better brakes and handling than honda stock. I own Clio mk3 200 and my friend own EP3. But honda has much better tuning potential than Clio. Both are awesome cars though :D
@@bosty1337 agree both awesome. ep3 is a car from 01 tho. the mk3 clio started 05 and the rs 200 even later so yeah. i only found 1 compareable time from a racetrack (hockenheim short) and the clio rs 200 was indeed faster then the 01 ep3 but barely within 1 sec. so i would say the ep3 is still very quick while beeing over 5 years older. and its quicker then the fn2 that came afterwards wich is a shame. anyway like you said both great cars. im a jdm fanboy id go for a honda of course. reliability especially on track is very high with the k20 if you use a baffled oil pan. but most likely a k20 swaped old civic instead of the ep3. 😆 dont like the look of the ep as much with its small and short minivan like bonnet. you probably know him allready but watch some dannydc2 videos and also hard candy racing maybe. they use k series in older honda chassis and even in an mr2 and they are also very very quick. they come into the range of 7:40-7:50 btg on the ring. thats where you barely see any n/a 4 banger cars. and the cars arent even modded that much powerwise or brakewise. also very fun to watch 👍
Clio is so well sorted!
respect...nice driving from the Clio driver...lots of power from the Civic!! Keep up!!
Probably a bit late to the party but a proper cup clio rs200 is probably one of the best NA hot hatches ever built, after driving VW group cars including tdis, petrol quattro audis and some gtis I bought a clio rs200. I've never had a car put such a smile on my face consistently I've over 15k miles put on it in my short ownership along with 2 track days. I can absolutely say they are not quick in a straight line but cornering on good tires and braking they are unmatched. I've had no worrying reliability issues aside from general maintance. Definitely a great buy and even more "loved" examples won't cost the ends of the earth to own. The only real downsides I could admit are the quality of some of the interior components and with the cup suspension the ride quality is a bit compromised. Viva la fun french baguettes 🇫🇷🇫🇷🇫🇷
Gosh! Love that extinct engine Sound... when cars sound behavie and perform as real sport or hot hatches unlike newer crappy ones!
As much as I like EP3s after seeing how these mad lads can peddle that Clio I'm inclined to believe the Clio wasn't sending the full package 😉
That was nice to watch...
Subscribed.
04:47 "Our lady of blessed acceleration, don't fail me now!"
Epic Man!
The driving styles are very different but the cars look very similar!
fun to watch!!
I think that ep3 needs a clutch change... Great video guys! Makes me even doubting more between an ep3 or a clio 197r27 more.
Needs bleeding not changed they get a bit spongy @100k.
2:22 - 2:41
when you are driving quietly your clio rs, but the usual ricers on a civic want to catch you XD
obviusly i'm joking, but is too fun to think so
nice vid and nice cars guys
Excellent content, nice driving. Keep it up.
To be fair, stock suspension is often better than what homegrown tuners do with their even supposedly track cars. The only problem stock Type-R has, is the brakes, they're really small and overheat easily.
le rire du mec a côté, et les regards qui se croisent après chaque virage! mdr :)
I actually really like the noise the Clios make but that Honda lump really does sound spot on and so under stressed!
Is as if you wanted to break it. You lads are brilliant fun
I'd love to be a passenger in your car ! And your happy noises are priceless, think i do that myself just when i'm alone....and together with you, when i'm watching this right now !
Love it guys! Keep it up.
One question though, where is the beautiful 306?
❤ Footage with the 306 from the same day can be found here - ua-cam.com/video/V-cH2qf77vk/v-deo.html
You can’t beat a little hot hatch with little power thrashing it, I have a GTR Nismo at the moment but still to this day my favourite car was my Clio Williams.
Keith Smith prove what’s your socials
Top level heel toe, especially for a car that's not your own.
Gearbox:
Me: crying oil tears
no one can complain about your enthusiasm...but i do feel sorry for that gearbox. :D
The lift off oversteer in the ep3 is epic.
Que Music in Civic. : Heavy metal. Switch to clio : Swan lake. It's as if the clio is teasing the civic.
we can clearly see that the civic's engine is way much better than the clio's, but we can also clearly see the chassis difference, civic's front end is softer and more prone to roll and the rear doesn't want to rotate as much as the clio does. but the civic is older than the clio so i guess its quite acceptable :D That aside, great driving as usual, love your enthusiasm !
its a matter of setup. the civic was stock. the clio not. so if you put some upgrade suspension in that civic and you twist the right bolts itll do lift offs all day as well. especially with an indipendend rear suspension you have some more possibilitys. not sure if the clio has a torsion bar rear or something?
Slowly scrolling through the videos!
With dodgy gear changes and 1 passenger and a engine issue (EML)
The EP3 didn't fail to impress!
That gearbox has been totally wrecked by bad shifting you can tell.
@@king-manu2758 there is ways of telling if it is the box,cables or clutch!
1) reverse park and come to a complete stop. If the stick goes hard to unselect it will be the cable bushings!
2) Slowly drive and scroll through the gears with clutch engaged if crunchy in 2nd 3rd and 4th it's the box.(synchronisation meshing)
3) start car listen for a faint rattle on release bearing. When 1st is selected feel for judder when at low revs when pulling off for clutch failure.
4) Switch engine off and press clutch full to floor and listen for a spring noise and resistance on the pedal may change. Slave master cylinder symptoms can create all 3!
EDIT I very much doubt that this EP3 has an air box but the bushings can rub on the bottom of the airbox to cause stiff selection!!!
@@rhondatype6556 nice explanation but maybe for someone else, I changed the mtf fluid on mine a year ago and since then it's super smooth. There's no fault with it after 130k miles.
@@king-manu2758 I've had all the problems but syncro mesh and mtf! Even had to change the callipers because of seazure lol
I'm 127k on a 54 still going strong though!
@@rhondatype6556 mine has no issue whatsoever except some noise like an old squeaky bed on the rear suspension which I haven't been able to locate yet.
You were floating all over the place with your standard suspension! The understeer cost you so much time, glad to see you taking advantage of the lift-off oversteer when needed. You would be much quicker than the Clio with the right suspension upgrades.
see, with upgrades, but if you upgrade the clio too...
@@littlepeugeot8341 the clio already has said upgrades, while the Civic is stock
the ep3 wasnt stock check description
@@brunosimoes6382
SAVAGE !!!! I like Very Much :)
Glad you enjoyed watching it as much as we did driving it!
The EP3 was a good road car. For the track, they had some issues if left factory.
Mine used to hate going into 2nd gear till it was warm.
E muito bom ouvir esse cara gritando! Emociona o vídeo! Julio Brasil
He keeps warming his hands he knows he can't wait to drive hahah
you should do another of these with a mini cooper s , see if the supercharger is better than the remapped clio or not .
I love your style.
Glad you enjoy the vids!
That looked like fun, but EP3 is a minivan with a superb engine, let’s keep kt at that 😚
Some nice rubber and even coilovers and it's already faster.. don't need to really splash out
Ahahah wicked lads
Vteeeeec!!! 😍😍😍
red line: exists
camber and combustion: ignore
engine: hello god it's me again
😂😂😂
Crazy mannnn
Shifter in the middle of the dash looks like from a van
Perfect position though.
I used to own one of these, gear position looks odd, but it's sooo nice and comfy to use. Perfect position right beside the steering wheel.
3rd gear on most older hondas is a nightmare in the corners
Considering the Type R is heavier and is two up, it did well.
And was shagged beyond reason and miss shifting (synchros) into every single 3rd, bouncing the rev limiter like a mad man and stock (shagged) chassis, no brakes, it did more than fine lol they are direct competitors and even with the worst shot ep3 got quite an edge
The civic isn’t heavier it’s lighter than a 197
Actually they weigh both 1240kg but the civic is still 2 up, thus heavier.
If you’re struggling with gear selection on an ep3 probably needs a new clutch, they never slip just won’t go in gear and higher revs easily
Hello i put coilovers on my ep3 and low the behavior is horrible do have the same problème ???
Quality
Driving a vtec is like driving old 2.0 diesel. You have to shift all the time 😂
Jakub B and when it’s off Vtec, it’s gash. That’s why you raise the rev limit
The catch is, the gearbox is fantastic. If properly maintained and cared for that is.... Unlike this example...
yeah but u have a high Rpm before hitting the ignition cut-off. So when u wanna drive eco u can be in 5 gear at 50 km/h and if u wanna push u switch from 5 to 2 and u get vtec activated :D
That's why I'm always partial to petrol turbo engines. You get low down torque AND top end power on a proper engine and while I understand the high revving N/A engines can be fun, they get positively spanked by something that has the same HP but 50% more torque. And on street driving the low-to-mid range is what counts.
@@varmastiko2908 spanked how? In a straight line? Not really. With same hp and weight but more torque a turbo car will do the same as an n/a car on a straight as long as they launch from a stop and the traction is similar. The turbo car will only win if doing pulls from low revs. When it comes to taking corners it depends. I often go touge driving with the newer 2.0 vag cars like the cupras and golf R etc and I struggle to keep up because they are 100+ hp and also pretty much can do the entire thing with minimal shifting. However by constantly keeping the car in the power band I can keep up with them even with the power deficit. What you cannot do is to expect to keep up with them in the corners without shifting which is what many people do. That's why the type r shifters have a fame of being so awesome, because you really have to use them a lot and they are a lot of fun to use when they work well (not the case with the one on this video).
And here we have some solid proof, EP3 stock suspension, great on the road, shit on the track!
RIP clutch! Civic
Good fun as usual. Has the Civic replaced the 306?
How does it compare?
Nope, the 306 is still very much around , we are taking that and the Clio to the Ring next week. The EP3 was our friend Fil's (the giggling passenger). Completely different experience to either of the Frenchies, totally dominated by the engine but with very approachable handling. A well sorted one would be a weapon on track.
Camber and Combustion Cheers Guys, looking forward to the Ring mayhem 👍
@@thebikerepairshopformby Mayhem 🤣 Thanks Phil!
Synchros need sorting on the civic. I had the same issue going into second.
Gimme that gearbox in my 182 please! 😁
The clio looks better in the corners?
You are right, thanks to upgraded suspension and stickier tyres the Clio was quicker through the corners but the Civic made up the difference on the straights.
@@CamberandCombustion both amazing hatches but for some reason I've always preferred French hatches
Yeah they are great, totally different characters but both awesome in their own ways!
I think the howl of the Honda would annoy me after half a lap. The Clio sounds meatier somehow. Which it isn’t really. We had the Clio Williams III. That was a sack of crap.
I've got a 182, and an S2k....always thought the chassis of the 182, with the lump from the S2k in it would be the perfect little track toy.
That Civic had a lot more weight to lug around (no offense to driver and/or passenger) so actually it's pretty promising.. a bit of suspension, some weight loss and that Clio is going down!
Could it be that you have some engine/transmission mount worned off? 'cause I see the shift moving a bit too much and even in mine (I got an ep4 but should have the some mount) I saw they got worned and sometimes during corner was a bit harsh to change gears.
Quite possible! The car was sold shortly after this video so we won't know, but thanks for the suggestion.
Really want to buy a semi quick second hand beater just for track days after watching this.
Do it!
OMG ! The Downshifts .... That poor Engine.... My heart is bleeding .
@Fabio Rizzotto probably due the fact he's not used to driving it.
Jelly Suspension: Activated
love this track. takes some serious balls. Some great FWD driving on this channel if not a little oversteery ;) what kind of laptimes is that clio doing?
Thanks for the comment! Best laptime on this day in the 197 was a 2:07
@@CamberandCombustion nice work. I must get the 205 back there at some point.
If the guy in the Ep3 didn’t have his passenger and could actually change gear smoothly this would be no problem to smoke this clio
Yea, if there were no corners on the track...
How do you find the mrf ztr?
When he downshifts the Honda sounds like it’s gonna blow up
Been looking at CTR’s to replace my 197 F1 but always thought I’d struggle with the gearshift, you lot aren’t filling me with confidence 🤣
Haha, the engine more than makes up for the gearshift!
Shifter bushing replacement shouldnt be any major problems
Shifter is great as long as you do maintaining and don't shift like nobhead
Got used to mine in no time 👍
@@Tombrosapien since then ive had a clio 182, megane 230 r26, clio 200 cup, mk1 mx5 and now have a Megane 265 and a mk4 supra, old habits die hard 🤣
Federal rsr tyres any good? They didn't really seem to be helping it much!
They are not a top-spec track tyre so don't have as much outright grip as some others, but they last well and for their price they are a good option.
I really need to sort some tyres for a 172 cup I use occasionally on track. They were a consideration, however I'll prob look at some premium road tyres, thinking Goodyear f1 2's.
I hated my 197 when i had it, however it looks a a very sorted and quick little motor on these vids. Very stable little thing! I hope the gearbox holds out 🙊
Is that a Maxogen intake on the 197 or just the panel filter? @CamberandCombustion?
Maxogen
You have mis-shift because, down 4 to 2 and skip 3, is "apparently" not supported by this gearsbox, sync. things..
the driver in the Renault is better
Why?
Hahaha watch them in the gti6 and the clio I'd say they are on par with each other lad. Both very good drivers!. Cant say the clio driver is better when his car is track prepped,and the Honda is standard
Honda driver done very well to get it round most of them corners lol
Passenger gets as excited as me when I chase things
Women or cars? 😂
@@TheCornishGingerOfficial ha that's a good point, cars I guess, easier for attack 😂
Put the honda engine in the clio,the best engine and châssis :),and the gearbox of the clio 😂
This is something that we hope someone somewhere has achieved! 🙌🏻🔥
@@CamberandCombustion no i don't think someone do this lol
Or the honda engine in the 306 👌
Now we’re talking 🤙🏻🔥
nico nico my friend had a CTR engine in a mini, mental that thing
Would have caught the clio if he drove it properly
Hmm I thought the Honda Type-R's were meant to have great gear shifts? Maybe not the EP3. Cool car though.
The gear change on this one is a little loose with age and mileage and we certainly did not do it at any justice 😂 Could imagine that it’s a nicer shift from the factory!
Ep3 boxes are weak once battered after a while
130k miles and gearbox is smooth as fuck. But you have to use the right Honda mtf, change it as needed and then shift properly not like the guy in the video.
@@ryancaunce3142 No they aren't lol. My mates is 170k and shifts like new. Same with mine on 140k
205k miles on my tranny... shifts like a charm, just the reverse is somewhat problematic
The EP3 was 1 person heavier..
Clio is definitely better in cornering. But at the end of the day I would choose the Honda!
drive it like you stole it!
Honda may have the engine but doesn't have the chassis! It makes all the difference.
Imagine the Honda with better suspension setup.
the clio wasn stock....the civic also has a good chassis but was on old stock suspension tires and all. give those things an update, kick the passanger out -> there you go. the old civic would probably give the clio a run for its money.
Might need new 3rd gear synchro set...
Pick a gear any gear ha ha, the ya fe a nightmare those gear boxes
😂
Knobbly knees
Why does the Clio sit so flat in the fast bends compeard to the civic wow..great watch as always guys
Thanks for the comment! Clio has uprated suspension which makes the car lower and stiffer so it rolls less. Civic is on completely standard suspension.
Nuff said ,,smashing drive as always tho 💪🏾💪🏾
Standard suspension is shit on the civic.
Mcufre it’s not, the ep3 was always praised for its good handling, it’s just this one has high mileage and so everything will be worn and have a lot of play, plus it’s against the Clio which has updated brakes and suspension
@@gumpy4960 both stock the clio should have better handling. The ep3 stock suspension and brakes aren't anything to write home about. I have an ep3 with bilstein b8s and upgraded pads, brake lines and fluid and things improve considerably.
So many money shifts tho
Hello, i want to buy a clio rs 197 and i would like to tell me about the advantages and disadvantages of this car. Pleace help me and tell me your opinion for this car. I want it for daily and for a few track days thnx a lot!! Nice videos keep entertaining us
Hi! We used this clio as a daily driver and a track car. Even as standard they are very good on track and as a road car they are more refined than the 172/182 models. A few choice modifications make them amazing on track!
@@CamberandCombustion given the already existing functional aero, and decent brake calipers on the 197/200's what would you say are the obvious first things to change in order to track prep (beyond the obvious pads, lines, fluids stuff). Im considering picking up a 197 as a dedicated track toy.
🤣🤣🤣
Civic seems to understeer a lot more than clio. Otherwise there pretty even tbh
The Civic has stock suspension and regular tires, the clio has upgraded suspension and sticky tires.
2 persons in front of car also changes weight balance
Mid shift count 10, over-rev count something similar :O
It's a VTEC, we thought you weren't allowed to change up without hitting the limiter?! 🤷♂😂
@@CamberandCombustion hehe that's fine, you actually went way past the limiter on a number of downshifts..... i can feel the chain stretching from here :D
@@CamberandCombustion it's not a vtec if before the change you don't hit the limiter
And the answer Is no
Please show respect to the Honda driver, just because on this video there was little evidence to suggest they had passionate driving talent is by no means grounds to inform them of thus.
5:08 meme in the making
Need a map to have any gains on civic
A M it’s minimal gains
The Clio was already mapped :(
Wrong gears make lose too much time in the corners, Clio´s driver make this better than Honda driver.
- 1 driver skill 3k to rebuild a ep3 gearbox.
Poor valvetrain
ctr is trashing it too much, getting understeer that way... needs to get much smoother if he wants to catch the clio
GT Haus but needs to stay in vtec
@@jason21jburg nah they are brute forcing it for entertainment, it is brilliant to watch but if they were chasing best laps, there would be very little "Roar it in dry" steering inputs. Every tyre slip that squeals is scrubbed time.
where's 306?
In this vid - ua-cam.com/video/V-cH2qf77vk/v-deo.html
Those laughs are very frustrating