I see a lot of good information in this video, one can only give so many disclaimers and walk through information of setting expectations. I’ve done a great job of doing so, but end of day it’s up to the consumer to read and understand it. I will say I have more 500+ whp stock motor customers than I can count anymore. Most cases still running great 10k, 20k, 30k miles later. Several 600-700whp cars living, all ranging from 04-21 Sti’s. Dyno tuned / e-tuned. Do we recommend built engines over a RA block or stock sti block? Absolutely. That is the correct way. But if you have your stock motor in your car and want to use your parts until you do a built engine. We do this all the time. If you can do it easily with a stock motor and go low 9s I’d love to see it though.
I think you’re doing a lot of good in the community. You put all the disclaimers out and you do let people know! Unfortunately some people don’t pay attention to the disclaimers and skip around them apparently. I think my favorite saying of yours is the car will last depending on how you treat it!
Yes sir, and that is the most true statement there is out there. Doesn’t matter if you have the best parts money can buy, best shop assembled and tune. If you beat the shit out of the car and mistreat it, it will undoubtedly break. May I do things differently than Steve? Yes I do. That’s why there is different shops, different fans, and different builds out there. The consumer has the option to pick which route they want to go. I do what my customer wants, Steve doesn’t like this theory. I have reffered to it has “dad mode” to him for many years when I used to go to him for my tuning needs. I don’t hold people back, if they want to push as much power as they can, sure I will. But I also set the expectations of what can come with that. I have customers that come to me all the time as well and ask for a reliable tune vs max power tune. I do as they want. In the end we have great success in this industry. It is not unknown that PRE doesn’t believe in the stock motors or what we do with them. That isn’t our fault or make what we do any less.
Why does it seem like people watch u and go to him and is like hey why can't you do this for me . I gotta take more than 10 people telling him that in order to make this video . I feel this was a straight shot at you.
It's fun to watch people ignore your warnings that stuff like this won't last. I take it for what it is, testing the limits so we can know where/what will fail first. Sorry you're catching so much shit for it.
@@alixh4596 It's not a strait shot to Bader. Hes calling out all the liars and cheats in the industry. Bader and his fu*kbois or fan bois take offence because they are the ones that are guilty of it the most.
I have a 21 sti. I have heard the same things that it’s stronger. I haven’t exactly believed it but I sure do hope for my pockets sake that it holds up. I’m tuned for around 400 whp. My tuner gave me a map for 500 but told me don’t run the map unless you want to come back to us. Some shops are very honest.
I only respect tuners that know the limits and say no. I dont respect tuners that send it and it blows up. We all know the tuners and no names need to be mentioned. You said it and we know it.
Love my 15 STI non RA block with a 20g, ETS TMIC, killer b headers, Q300 and suspension (Fortune Auto/CE28SL) upgrades. 360whp on pump and retaining stock downpipe. I stopped arguing with kids on Facebook about the RA block capabilities. Still a cast open deck engine. Been in the STI/Evo game for a decade. Knowledge and maintenance is key. With these cars, you cant cut corners. They’re extreme temperamental. You need proper fuel and don’t over work the turbo.
I will say they seem to survive very well at that 500-550 horse range. I’ve gone to several events with my team at ER. 33psi 580whp 470wtq I truely beat the shit out of the car. Now do we ever sell this to a customer? Noooo! But I have legitimately gotten over 25k miles on this setup and we at ER don’t really try flaunting this. Biggest issue with the industry now is fake Dyno numbers. 800 whp Dyno jet converted bs. That’s thee most frustrating thing especially when you know it’s not accurate
best engines ive ever owned was engine built by you steve! theirs a reason you've been doing this for so long! Edit: my stock engine in my Hb lasted 480miles before getting ring land failure every engine ive always had from you lasted 8000-12000 miles of straight abuse there was no daily driving it was a daily 8000+ rpm 1-5th gear pulls ive had a engine i pulled out of my car at 8000 miles with daily abuse and racing and sold it and customer put 20-25k miles on it after selling it! after me doing prob 20+ 170+mph pulls with it! not many can say that! people who think "stock" long blocks will last and is the new "built" engine has not woken up from their dream like you said it might last a few pulls but it will blow sooner then later!
@@stevetuned I’ve said this a decade ago! I dont care who it’s built by or who it’s tuned by I’ll blow it up! If you don’t blow up your engine it means you didn’t drive hard enough. I’ll live by that statement for ever! I’ll challenge anyone in the world! Give me a car i dont care who built or tuned it I’ll blow it up. Why because I’m a stupid driver because I do dumb shit. Like you know went racing someone called me out put money on the race I knew I would loose I pulled the WG line I raced I won. I blew it up I called you you picked me up 45min later 3 days later engine rebuilt and back on the road! I know I’m not perfect. But I’ll stress test any engine/tuner.
Josh bader tuned my complete stock longblock 2021 Sti at 8,000 miles… Complete ets turbo kit with 6466 turbo that made 697awhp on e85. I’m at 34,000 miles running strong daily driven 🤷♂️
@@kongowns7446 it hasn’t been to the track ever, but I do race friends and what not pretty often and do street pulls.. I dont do any digs only roll races (stock oil pan and pickup), 60-70% of the time I’m on pump gas cause it’s my daily and we only have 1 corn e85 station here and it’s spendy lol…
Very well said steve. I built and tune my own wrx after previous problems. After the previous owner brought a brand new sti short block EJ257 and a previous mercanic put it together which didnt last more than 10,000km due to mercanical failure and the car was taken back not once but twice with a problem which they charged the customer and dismissed them. So i brought the car cheap and pulled it down to find the nitrited crankshaft and both heads were taken out. I then rebuild the whole engine to be reliable daily. A New nitrited crank, stock rods, stock pistons, arp rod bolts, 12mm oil pump, cometic head gaskets, 2x second hand heads, now ported, supertech iconel 1mm oversize exhaust valves and 1mm nitrided inlet valves, titanium retainers, beehive valve springs, stock cams, custom top mount, VF22 turbo and a full turbo back exhaust system. When I was pulling down the avcs i found metal shaving through out the avcs cam gears so i fully stripes, cleaned and reassembled. The car now has stock injectors now due to pulling the romdata from the car and seeing wrong injector data and incorrect VW injectors allong with other problems due to poor tuning strategies. Now the car runs a factory base map with just a 3 port EBC. The car make great power for a preaty much stock at 288hp at 5522rpm and 284ft at 5181pm. Yes i built the engine to rev and make power but a reliability engine is better. Yes i do help other people out with engine building knowledge and tuning knowledge making safe power numbers with the right combination. At the end of the day its all about making good reliability power with a good reliability engine.
Why do people think the RA has a special engine? Specs are the same. The S209 is the hot rodded one and i want one so bad, with the forged pistons and what not im sure it could handle more boost than the generic sti block
The S209 engine does NOT have forged pistons.... This is a common mistake people make. Subaru trialed forged pistons and there was an intent to use them but for the sake of long term durability/longevity they decided to stick with cast pistons for the production cars.
Several sources confirm the s209 engine indeed has forged pistons and rods however the material of the pistons is 4032 aluminum to help with emissions and noise.
Great video. I suppose there's no better person to ask than you about this. I live in Ontario, canada, where in winter its typically -15 Celsius from november to march. I'm looking to get a 2019-2021 subaru wrx STi, of which I'm probably going to keep completely stock apart from wheels. My question is, should I get a catch can or AOS, or leave the PCV system stock? I've read that even the IAG V3 AOS can get sludged up from the cold weather, and catch cans can fill up with water rather quickly from condensation, when its cold out. If I'm going to leave the drivetrain stock, should I even bother? Could I just leave it stock and not have any issues until I'd inevitably have to take it in to get the valves cleaned? Really not sure.
Well said and very informative. Nothing worse than being at the drag strip and waiting for clean up....after clean up.....I understand people want to push the limit, but others suffer at the track when it goes wrong. LS Fest is a perfect example. Happy I'm not the only one that's noticing this happening.
Very informative Steve, and I concur. I went with a IAG500 long block and it's tuned below ~400 hp and ft lbs so I don't feel bad leaving my foot in it around town and what not, super fun midrange torque for the daily, 08 WRX hatch.
Good choice, I bought an IAG as well, stg2.5 closed deck for my 2011 GR. It's not in the car yet but I plan to build it between 450-500whp. With the black rated at 750bhp I will be good to go as long as keep on top of the proper maintenance.
@ivtec4fun What is the cold start piston slap like on that IAG 500 block? Wondering if I should go with the 600 long block as it is supposed to be built with tighter piston to wall clearances.
No matter how well built a engine is. It’s only a few bad days away from something going catastrophically wrong. As a tuner and a engine builder you have more mechanical sympathy than most of the owners of these cars. When you have a new STI making 250hp that you can put it to the wood anywhere any time. It makes you feel invincible like nothing bad can happen. It’s like everyone who wanted “500whp on pump gas, reliable, and cheap” choose 2. I’m honored to have been there when you built your forester engine. That car was a absolute animal and still is the fastest Subaru I’ve ever driven. That engine was a strong foundation for horsepower. Any house can survive in the perfect environment. What happens if a storm rolls through. Hope you’re doing well Steve 🤙🏻
This is just causing unnecessary drama I enjoy your content and baders and devins. I don't think it's a bad thing that Bader proves that an ej25 can actually make good numbers in stock form and go 10s he does mention that he doesn't recommend it and he just trys to put the point across that it can be done and if it can live at the power stock it will do more so built and honestly I don't think anyone stays on the race map all the time it's for some occasions as bader says treat it as a race car you'll have race car problems. There's people all over the world with built engines and those same parts Bader uses that cant even get into the 10s. I guess if its affecting the business you have to speak out but I have to disagree on the fact that you think baders content is not doing the brand justice. It actually proves that the motors are not as bad as other people say.
Yeah I can see a lot of young kids insisting on the “send it” culture. We all know bader does it for the views. I’m sure he’s a good guy and I’m not a mechanic by any means but any level headed person will understand that a production vehicle is not meant for abuse. Sadly some people these days don’t want to hear it and won’t accept it. They come to a stand up guy that’s pointing them in the right direction for their own sake and they might not accept it feeling that they’re being upsold. The fall out from that can be a big problem for a company.
Thanks for the video! My tuner in Australia says the same thing. I like how Josh at Baderbuilt your old friend :) He says explains like what your saying. The higher the HP rating more unrealible the stock engine becomes. He has disclaimers and has explained it multiple times. Keen to see the race car done in the upcoming year etc 😁😁
When we pushed my super low mileage 2020 STI to 550whp we knew it was going to be on borrowed time. I was hoping we could reuse the heads and we likely could have. Once we moved to a PT6870 setup we had a fully built longblock on standby and once we broke 800whp on the stock longblock it took out the block in catastrophic failure after 3 street hits. We knew from the start that this engine wouldn't last long. Even with the fully built, closed deck, billet crank motor I only run around 30-32psi 95% of the time because I do want to get some use out of it. At 43+ psi she pushes over 900whp and 730wtq, if we ran it like that all the time even the best built engine will have a pretty short life cycle. I greatly appreciate this video. I've had a lot of people ask about my stock motor car and I try and tell them unless they have deep pockets, and can do all the install work themselves it's not worth building a big power Subaru, get a Mustang or something with more cylinders.
Everyone saying this is a dig at Bader is butt hurt. Two different people with two different approaches. Steve has always been upfront about doing things the right way, while Josh takes his risks and attempts to be transparent. The biggest issues are the consumers who don’t do their research or study the MASSIVE amount of information available on these cars who decide they just want something with a number. Those same people probably make the same costly mistakes with the rest of their choices. At the end of the day if someone wants something done right they will do their own due diligence
All bs aside bader,Devin,taylor have helped the community honestly, Subi scene has been super dead for a while I have had more customers come in for built motor,stock motors you name it. It kind of helps everyone. End of the day it’s the customers choice we all tell them reliability will go out the window.
There has been some great content from the mentioned above no doubt , however I have to disagree about the Subaru scene being dead, Subarus are going faster than ever before at the track , the scene hasn’t showed signs of going dead over here in my area at least.
I will say, Bader has been doing a lot of this but he does say this isn’t going to last and does make sure people know that this isn’t reliable they’re just doing it for fun and to push the limits. I do agree that it isn’t an economic thing to do. We just have to be smarter as enthusiasts and realize that if you want your car to last you have to do it right. These younger kids are the ones that are gullible in believing that these will last long term
Those guys have built motors sitting there ready to go in after the stock one blows. It's just for the drama/views. But I can't help but to watch haha.
Bader is the worst for this. Claiming the numbers he does is rediculous, and the people that believe it is even worse. People need to learn how to read a dyno sheet correctly to call the bullshit of the tuner.
Always been a big fan Steve.. Although i just don’t see how an emotion fueled rant does the community any better than it does start drama and hurt friendships. This video is for the most part pointing at someone specific whether it’s stated or not and I’ve had work done on my car from both of you. The build and tune styles are clearly different and one person grew exponentially in fan base and fame and the other didn’t and it seems like you’re upset about it. Let people do what they do and leave them alone. If they are shady or provide a sub par service, customers won’t come back. Plain and simple.
Great video. So what’s your ideal stock block horsepower number for an ej255? And what piston rod combo would you recommend with longevity in mind for 500 whp daily, specifically that 100k mile motor you built. I realize even using the same setup could yield different results.
@@stevetuned looking forward to this. Would love to get your opinion on max boost/hp and turbo selection for a street driven car. Ive seen heaps of videos in regards to Max hp cars that do good times, but I'm more interested in seeing videos of street driven cars that has plenty of average power rather than peak power.
Well said💪...like in one of your previous videos, the sweet spot for a street, in my case a non daily, just weekend drive ride, 600whp+ proper built bottom and top end. Another thing youngsters and non familiar people must consider 100%+ with stock or specificaly built engines, they need to keep up with maintenance religiously and in this case an unfamiliar noise pop out, NOT to ignore it by turning the radio up, and STOP to check the source and address the issue before a catastrophic failure happen. Proper build (Top and bottom end), tune, maintenance and driving = reliable, longevity. Stock/not properly build engine, bad tune, driving it like its the end of the world = very dead engine + negative bank account.
Good work and it was very informative! What turbo would you pair with a 83mm stroked EJ257 with internals for like 600+ hp? It's confusing because of the near stock RPM limit, even with built heads.
#stevetuned 1998 rs with 06 sti swap you've tuned, 350hp on a kill map.. 6k miles of weekend driving, freeway onramp pulls, drag racing, etc. Still here!! Its all about part combination with the correct tuner to keep it going! No shots at bader, you just happened to tune me before you went to PRE. Keep up the good work man. I dont think it's a shot at bader, I think hes just saying people are assuming you can make 500+ on a stock block without an issue. IT WILL HAVE ISSUES EVENTUALLY!
Bottom line 90% of the people out there can’t afford to have them properly built to make the power they are waiting!!! They are on the 900hp/tq mindset but on an EBay budget. #facts
Really ? The best thing is to get a Time Machine , go back to like 2019 when you could get a STI a little below sticker (and your choice of colors on the lot) and keep it stock … buy a coyote mustang if need want more than 400 😂
Steve, you hit the nail on the head with the metallurgy these motor are sand casted as well as the pistons. I pour the Gucci of metals in the aerospace industry. Metal is your friend and your enemy. Heat!!!!!! Heat!!!!!!! Heat!!!! Failure!!!!!!! Right metal Gucci revert metal Pookie lol!!!!
There are subtle hints at Bader and it's very true. He has set unrealistic expectations for everyone but does it for the content. That being said he also makes sure to include disclaimers saying how it won't last etc. which is nice but people seem to ignore that part. Great video Steve!
Good commentary, this is great information that will help the community big time. And to your point doing a build on Subies AIN"T cheap at all which is why I'm building conservatively for a daily driver.
This idiocy reminds me of 15-20 years ago when everybody was all hyped about the EJ22T just because it was closed deck and had oil squirters .... common guys... cast pistons on high Psi cars just don't mix... 😮💨
Seriously…some comment are way too childish… Do what you want with your car,there’s milion way of making power,good or bad,you make the choice of builder,tuner,parts,driving style. I agree with Steve in his way but if you wanna break record or number,do some! There is no single way to do thing and it’s all right!✌️🖖🤘🤌
Thank you so much for making this video if I hear one more person tell me well my friends stock motor did this and that IDC it’s going to EXPLODE and they didn’t even build it a hack shop did. I’ll be fine with my built motor still driving it
I understand where you’re going with this Steve. Build it right the first time so you won’t have to do it again. I’ve gone through two stock ej205 motors to learn to just get a built motor. You live and you learn.
My mentor always told me engines don't die they are murdered. But I do think that in the future everyone will be f24 swapping there sti, those numbers there making is crazy I fully built my motor just to make 400 wheel horsepower
I enjoyed this info as always i enjoyed your work with Bader and I hope you guys haven't fallen out over this concept..I must say I watch bader less with this concept than when he built more street cars and specific use cars
I picked up a blouch 1.5xtr 8cm for a really good deal and dropped it onto my stock 2014 ej257 STI block. 1050's, e85, KB headers, Fluidampr, AEM 340, Grimmspeed downpipe, 44mm tial EWG. Making 389whp @5650/406wtq @4700 on 21 psi. Turbo starts spooling up about 3800 which is pretty nice for staying out of boost most of the time putting around town. im planning on some more reliability focused stuff including a radium hanger/iwire controller to nip the overheating wire possibility and an oil cooler setup. no plans to track this car in any way, just a fun 350-400ish daily that i dont have to worry about in 10 inches of iowa snow. In your opinion is this really pushing the limits of longevity for these engines in stock trim? I've considered swapping back down to a smaller turbo or asking for a low boost tune and swapping wastegate springs. what would your ideal max longevity/fun build look like?
I completely agree that Subarus are great vehicles and can take a beating if done right. Fact of the matter is that many people don't know or understand the technical details behind modifying a vehicle and the requirements for keeping a modified vehicle running. I work in IT and even a lot of IT people don't understand what is really happening behind the GUI or what is required to make hardware and software run optimally, so take your average person and safely assume that the complexities of owning a modified vehicle never crossed their mind. I watch Bader's videos, he mentions that pushing a stock engine isn't reliable, but you can guarantee that numerous people aren't going to listen to that disclaimer. Best thing you can do is try to educate people, tell them that you're not going to send their motor but that you'll be glad to sell them a proper replacement and a tune when they do send it somewhere else.
Steve, are the S209 blocks available from Subaru or do you have to submit paperwork to prove you own a S209 in order to purchase? Also does that battery tester have another unit that will test Braille lithium race batteries for example?
Facts! People are just cheap searching for a magic HP number. If it takes ya three stoplight lengths to get into the powerband, what's the point. Save up, overbuild and stop listening to internet clowns. Haha
I'm glad I stopped taking my car to BBR there just over there for the clout some people don't see the real josh intell you spend thousands of $$$ and your car still runs like shit 😂
I miss his old videos where he was still at his house out of his garage dealing with his crazy neighbor Bob. I find it hard to believe that Josh would do shady work. His video show very high quality work and he does say over and over again in his videos that these motors will not last you need to go with a built motor for that. Steve is right though since I also own an EVO that you can't just keep blowing up parts. These parts are going to dry up and no longer be available like what is happening to the evo 8/9 market.
As long as ur happy and having fun along with going fast & eating ass doesn't matter what ya dueing it in life's way too short as it is plus ur shortening it with the hobby soo don't let stupid stuff get too you and make u angry ur wasting time on negative crap . Everyone's build is there build and choices what happens happens that's what u learn from and build better next go around any modifications you add too any engine is putting the motor into the chance of blowing up section and if u don't kno that then they shouldn't be building / modifying engines 🤷♂️
They did change the pistons. There is more meat in between the top of the piston and the ringland thats the only difference anyone has been able to find. God you have to love the internet lmao. Please people remember there is such thing as video magic
Excellent video! I can't believe people are that fkn stupid to actually believe that a stock motor can make that sort of power. A twin turbo AMG has 8cyls for a freaking reason!
Its always better to overbuild the engine. I am running a IAG stage 2 on a stock STI . I BEAT ON IT WITH NO FEAR, bad fuel, ehh it will hold, its a 100f out side, eh!! It will hold.
Thanks you for saying this Reddit is full of sorry to say this but idiot’s all ways telling people get a 2019+ cause of the RA block 😂 an I’m over hearing rolling my eyes cause they don’t even bother to look at the difference between it’s been documented in NASOIC
I've see all over the Facebook pages of people asking what a stock block can handle and its just sad stop being cheap and skipping over something so crucial to the build and as for bader he is one of the main causes look at that Chester guy who was at like 900whp on the stock block he missed a shift and blew it people who do UA-cam need to think before making a video people are gonna watch and see what your doing and some want to do the samething your doing so stop making these clickbait videos steve is just saying want no one really wants to hear and its the truth
I can tell your upset because Bader is doing everything you wanted to do in life. While you're forced to work at PRE while Bader is running his own shop like you always dreamed of. Hatred driven by jealousy is very dangerous brother. Don't prey on somebody's success because of your own failures. It's not a good look for the Subaru community.
I wouldn’t be so quick to assume he wanted to run his own shop. And I also wouldn’t be so quick to assume Josh “has it made” doing his own thing. It’s extremely risky on your own. Steve has a certain amount of job security and is doing something he loves while someone else assumes all the risk. I get what Steve is saying, unfortunately it’s this way with a lot of things. We are a very impatient society now. And many people purchase based on what others have done or recommended. We see a lot of people successfully doing things, but hardly any of the failures. I’ll hand it to Josh, he does show the bad side of things in his videos. I don’t think this is directed at Josh entirely. I think it’s directed at the community as a whole.
Josh has made it that’s for sure! He definitely seems like he has more disposable income then the average dude. I’m pretty positive he’s making most of his money tuning. I do miss his old school videos at his house. But in order to grow you gotta do bigger things. Life is a gamble. And he has taken a huge leap then where he was 3 years ago.
Bro just stop!!! Others have done direct side by side comparisons of the pistons. The ringlands, as well as the wrist pins are obviously different. I understand your point of view but stop spreading misinformation.
I see a lot of good information in this video, one can only give so many disclaimers and walk through information of setting expectations.
I’ve done a great job of doing so, but end of day it’s up to the consumer to read and understand it.
I will say I have more 500+ whp stock motor customers than I can count anymore. Most cases still running great 10k, 20k, 30k miles later. Several 600-700whp cars living, all ranging from 04-21 Sti’s. Dyno tuned / e-tuned.
Do we recommend built engines over a RA block or stock sti block? Absolutely. That is the correct way. But if you have your stock motor in your car and want to use your parts until you do a built engine. We do this all the time.
If you can do it easily with a stock motor and go low 9s I’d love to see it though.
I think you’re doing a lot of good in the community. You put all the disclaimers out and you do let people know! Unfortunately some people don’t pay attention to the disclaimers and skip around them apparently. I think my favorite saying of yours is the car will last depending on how you treat it!
Yes sir, and that is the most true statement there is out there. Doesn’t matter if you have the best parts money can buy, best shop assembled and tune. If you beat the shit out of the car and mistreat it, it will undoubtedly break.
May I do things differently than Steve? Yes I do.
That’s why there is different shops, different fans, and different builds out there. The consumer has the option to pick which route they want to go.
I do what my customer wants, Steve doesn’t like this theory. I have reffered to it has “dad mode” to him for many years when I used to go to him for my tuning needs. I don’t hold people back, if they want to push as much power as they can, sure I will. But I also set the expectations of what can come with that.
I have customers that come to me all the time as well and ask for a reliable tune vs max power tune. I do as they want.
In the end we have great success in this industry. It is not unknown that PRE doesn’t believe in the stock motors or what we do with them. That isn’t our fault or make what we do any less.
Why does it seem like people watch u and go to him and is like hey why can't you do this for me . I gotta take more than 10 people telling him that in order to make this video . I feel this was a straight shot at you.
It's fun to watch people ignore your warnings that stuff like this won't last. I take it for what it is, testing the limits so we can know where/what will fail first. Sorry you're catching so much shit for it.
@@alixh4596 It's not a strait shot to Bader. Hes calling out all the liars and cheats in the industry. Bader and his fu*kbois or fan bois take offence because they are the ones that are guilty of it the most.
I have a 21 sti. I have heard the same things that it’s stronger. I haven’t exactly believed it but I sure do hope for my pockets sake that it holds up. I’m tuned for around 400 whp. My tuner gave me a map for 500 but told me don’t run the map unless you want to come back to us. Some shops are very honest.
What I can tell from this video is you are passionate and have a lot of love for your craft. I respect that.
I only respect tuners that know the limits and say no. I dont respect tuners that send it and it blows up. We all know the tuners and no names need to be mentioned.
You said it and we know it.
I want to do a 600 hp but I have forged internals with a semi closed block can you tell me is this possible and safe? Tell me how you’ll go about it?
Love my 15 STI non RA block with a 20g, ETS TMIC, killer b headers, Q300 and suspension (Fortune Auto/CE28SL) upgrades. 360whp on pump and retaining stock downpipe.
I stopped arguing with kids on Facebook about the RA block capabilities. Still a cast open deck engine. Been in the STI/Evo game for a decade. Knowledge and maintenance is key.
With these cars, you cant cut corners. They’re extreme temperamental. You need proper fuel and don’t over work the turbo.
I will say they seem to survive very well at that 500-550 horse range. I’ve gone to several events with my team at ER. 33psi 580whp 470wtq I truely beat the shit out of the car. Now do we ever sell this to a customer? Noooo! But I have legitimately gotten over 25k miles on this setup and we at ER don’t really try flaunting this. Biggest issue with the industry now is fake Dyno numbers. 800 whp Dyno jet converted bs. That’s thee most frustrating thing especially when you know it’s not accurate
Ok, thank Dad. BBR for life!
My 03 bugeye was tuned by Steve 5 years ago. Did a full bolt on and all the supporting mods to my car and it’s still runs to this day
best engines ive ever owned was engine built by you steve! theirs a reason you've been doing this for so long!
Edit: my stock engine in my Hb lasted 480miles before getting ring land failure every engine ive always had from you lasted 8000-12000 miles of straight abuse there was no daily driving it was a daily 8000+ rpm 1-5th gear pulls ive had a engine i pulled out of my car at 8000 miles with daily abuse and racing and sold it and customer put 20-25k miles on it after selling it! after me doing prob 20+ 170+mph pulls with it! not many can say that! people who think "stock" long blocks will last and is the new "built" engine has not woken up from their dream like you said it might last a few pulls but it will blow sooner then later!
You’ve definitely tested my tuning and pushed my engine building over the years for sure.
@@stevetuned I’ve said this a decade ago! I dont care who it’s built by or who it’s tuned by I’ll blow it up! If you don’t blow up your engine it means you didn’t drive hard enough. I’ll live by that statement for ever! I’ll challenge anyone in the world! Give me a car i dont care who built or tuned it I’ll blow it up. Why because I’m a stupid driver because I do dumb shit. Like you know went racing someone called me out put money on the race I knew I would loose I pulled the WG line I raced I won. I blew it up I called you you picked me up 45min later 3 days later engine rebuilt and back on the road! I know I’m not perfect. But I’ll stress test any engine/tuner.
Josh bader tuned my complete stock longblock 2021 Sti at 8,000 miles… Complete ets turbo kit with 6466 turbo that made 697awhp on e85. I’m at 34,000 miles running strong daily driven 🤷♂️
But do you beat on it every weekend and do you race it at the track during events? I’m just curious.
@@kongowns7446 it hasn’t been to the track ever, but I do race friends and what not pretty often and do street pulls.. I dont do any digs only roll races (stock oil pan and pickup), 60-70% of the time I’m on pump gas cause it’s my daily and we only have 1 corn e85 station here and it’s spendy lol…
Hey Jordan, your comment lines up exactly with what my point was in the video, hope your doing well bud.
Bader's a Bad Ass❤
Very well said steve. I built and tune my own wrx after previous problems. After the previous owner brought a brand new sti short block EJ257 and a previous mercanic put it together which didnt last more than 10,000km due to mercanical failure and the car was taken back not once but twice with a problem which they charged the customer and dismissed them. So i brought the car cheap and pulled it down to find the nitrited crankshaft and both heads were taken out. I then rebuild the whole engine to be reliable daily. A New nitrited crank, stock rods, stock pistons, arp rod bolts, 12mm oil pump, cometic head gaskets, 2x second hand heads, now ported, supertech iconel 1mm oversize exhaust valves and 1mm nitrided inlet valves, titanium retainers, beehive valve springs, stock cams, custom top mount, VF22 turbo and a full turbo back exhaust system. When I was pulling down the avcs i found metal shaving through out the avcs cam gears so i fully stripes, cleaned and reassembled. The car now has stock injectors now due to pulling the romdata from the car and seeing wrong injector data and incorrect VW injectors allong with other problems due to poor tuning strategies. Now the car runs a factory base map with just a 3 port EBC. The car make great power for a preaty much stock at 288hp at 5522rpm and 284ft at 5181pm. Yes i built the engine to rev and make power but a reliability engine is better. Yes i do help other people out with engine building knowledge and tuning knowledge making safe power numbers with the right combination. At the end of the day its all about making good reliability power with a good reliability engine.
Why do people think the RA has a special engine? Specs are the same. The S209 is the hot rodded one and i want one so bad, with the forged pistons and what not im sure it could handle more boost than the generic sti block
The S209 engine does NOT have forged pistons.... This is a common mistake people make. Subaru trialed forged pistons and there was an intent to use them but for the sake of long term durability/longevity they decided to stick with cast pistons for the production cars.
Several sources confirm the s209 engine indeed has forged pistons and rods however the material of the pistons is 4032 aluminum to help with emissions and noise.
Great video. I suppose there's no better person to ask than you about this. I live in Ontario, canada, where in winter its typically -15 Celsius from november to march. I'm looking to get a 2019-2021 subaru wrx STi, of which I'm probably going to keep completely stock apart from wheels. My question is, should I get a catch can or AOS, or leave the PCV system stock? I've read that even the IAG V3 AOS can get sludged up from the cold weather, and catch cans can fill up with water rather quickly from condensation, when its cold out. If I'm going to leave the drivetrain stock, should I even bother? Could I just leave it stock and not have any issues until I'd inevitably have to take it in to get the valves cleaned? Really not sure.
you wont have to clean the valves on an STi, its not direct injected like the FA motor
Well said and very informative. Nothing worse than being at the drag strip and waiting for clean up....after clean up.....I understand people want to push the limit, but others suffer at the track when it goes wrong. LS Fest is a perfect example. Happy I'm not the only one that's noticing this happening.
Very informative Steve, and I concur. I went with a IAG500 long block and it's tuned below ~400 hp and ft lbs so I don't feel bad leaving my foot in it around town and what not, super fun midrange torque for the daily, 08 WRX hatch.
Good choice, I bought an IAG as well, stg2.5 closed deck for my 2011 GR. It's not in the car yet but I plan to build it between 450-500whp. With the black rated at 750bhp I will be good to go as long as keep on top of the proper maintenance.
@ivtec4fun What is the cold start piston slap like on that IAG 500 block? Wondering if I should go with the 600 long block as it is supposed to be built with tighter piston to wall clearances.
Knowledge !
No matter how well built a engine is. It’s only a few bad days away from something going catastrophically wrong. As a tuner and a engine builder you have more mechanical sympathy than most of the owners of these cars. When you have a new STI making 250hp that you can put it to the wood anywhere any time. It makes you feel invincible like nothing bad can happen. It’s like everyone who wanted “500whp on pump gas, reliable, and cheap” choose 2. I’m honored to have been there when you built your forester engine. That car was a absolute animal and still is the fastest Subaru I’ve ever driven. That engine was a strong foundation for horsepower. Any house can survive in the perfect environment. What happens if a storm rolls through. Hope you’re doing well Steve 🤙🏻
This is just causing unnecessary drama I enjoy your content and baders and devins. I don't think it's a bad thing that Bader proves that an ej25 can actually make good numbers in stock form and go 10s he does mention that he doesn't recommend it and he just trys to put the point across that it can be done and if it can live at the power stock it will do more so built and honestly I don't think anyone stays on the race map all the time it's for some occasions as bader says treat it as a race car you'll have race car problems. There's people all over the world with built engines and those same parts Bader uses that cant even get into the 10s. I guess if its affecting the business you have to speak out but I have to disagree on the fact that you think baders content is not doing the brand justice. It actually proves that the motors are not as bad as other people say.
Yeah I can see a lot of young kids insisting on the “send it” culture. We all know bader does it for the views. I’m sure he’s a good guy and I’m not a mechanic by any means but any level headed person will understand that a production vehicle is not meant for abuse. Sadly some people these days don’t want to hear it and won’t accept it. They come to a stand up guy that’s pointing them in the right direction for their own sake and they might not accept it feeling that they’re being upsold. The fall out from that can be a big problem for a company.
Thanks for the video! My tuner in Australia says the same thing. I like how Josh at Baderbuilt your old friend :) He says explains like what your saying. The higher the HP rating more unrealible the stock engine becomes. He has disclaimers and has explained it multiple times. Keen to see the race car done in the upcoming year etc 😁😁
When we pushed my super low mileage 2020 STI to 550whp we knew it was going to be on borrowed time. I was hoping we could reuse the heads and we likely could have. Once we moved to a PT6870 setup we had a fully built longblock on standby and once we broke 800whp on the stock longblock it took out the block in catastrophic failure after 3 street hits. We knew from the start that this engine wouldn't last long.
Even with the fully built, closed deck, billet crank motor I only run around 30-32psi 95% of the time because I do want to get some use out of it. At 43+ psi she pushes over 900whp and 730wtq, if we ran it like that all the time even the best built engine will have a pretty short life cycle.
I greatly appreciate this video. I've had a lot of people ask about my stock motor car and I try and tell them unless they have deep pockets, and can do all the install work themselves it's not worth building a big power Subaru, get a Mustang or something with more cylinders.
That battery tester looks very handy!!👍🏼
Everyone saying this is a dig at Bader is butt hurt. Two different people with two different approaches. Steve has always been upfront about doing things the right way, while Josh takes his risks and attempts to be transparent. The biggest issues are the consumers who don’t do their research or study the MASSIVE amount of information available on these cars who decide they just want something with a number. Those same people probably make the same costly mistakes with the rest of their choices. At the end of the day if someone wants something done right they will do their own due diligence
All bs aside bader,Devin,taylor have helped the community honestly, Subi scene has been super dead for a while I have had more customers come in for built motor,stock motors you name it. It kind of helps everyone. End of the day it’s the customers choice we all tell them reliability will go out the window.
There has been some great content from the mentioned above no doubt , however I have to disagree about the Subaru scene being dead, Subarus are going faster than ever before at the track , the scene hasn’t showed signs of going dead over here in my area at least.
Video title should say “Tell me your talking about Bader without telling me you’re talking about Bader”….
I will say, Bader has been doing a lot of this but he does say this isn’t going to last and does make sure people know that this isn’t reliable they’re just doing it for fun and to push the limits. I do agree that it isn’t an economic thing to do. We just have to be smarter as enthusiasts and realize that if you want your car to last you have to do it right. These younger kids are the ones that are gullible in believing that these will last long term
But I agree you better just build it in the beginning
Those guys have built motors sitting there ready to go in after the stock one blows. It's just for the drama/views. But I can't help but to watch haha.
Bader is the worst for this. Claiming the numbers he does is rediculous, and the people that believe it is even worse. People need to learn how to read a dyno sheet correctly to call the bullshit of the tuner.
They dont last at all. They might barely last a dyno pull.
Must be hard to believe trap speeds, we have more proof than anyone when it comes to power vs track.
Finally someone calls out this bullshit ...
Always been a big fan Steve.. Although i just don’t see how an emotion fueled rant does the community any better than it does start drama and hurt friendships. This video is for the most part pointing at someone specific whether it’s stated or not and I’ve had work done on my car from both of you. The build and tune styles are clearly different and one person grew exponentially in fan base and fame and the other didn’t and it seems like you’re upset about it. Let people do what they do and leave them alone. If they are shady or provide a sub par service, customers won’t come back. Plain and simple.
I don’t now and never have done any of this for the fame, that’s where you have me misunderstood.
Great video. So what’s your ideal stock block horsepower number for an ej255? And what piston rod combo would you recommend with longevity in mind for 500 whp daily, specifically that 100k mile motor you built. I realize even using the same setup could yield different results.
Next video I will go over this.
@@stevetuned looking forward to this. Would love to get your opinion on max boost/hp and turbo selection for a street driven car. Ive seen heaps of videos in regards to Max hp cars that do good times, but I'm more interested in seeing videos of street driven cars that has plenty of average power rather than peak power.
Well said💪...like in one of your previous videos, the sweet spot for a street, in my case a non daily, just weekend drive ride, 600whp+ proper built bottom and top end. Another thing youngsters and non familiar people must consider 100%+ with stock or specificaly built engines, they need to keep up with maintenance religiously and in this case an unfamiliar noise pop out, NOT to ignore it by turning the radio up, and STOP to check the source and address the issue before a catastrophic failure happen.
Proper build (Top and bottom end), tune, maintenance and driving = reliable, longevity.
Stock/not properly build engine, bad tune, driving it like its the end of the world = very dead engine + negative bank account.
Good work and it was very informative! What turbo would you pair with a 83mm stroked EJ257 with internals for like 600+ hp? It's confusing because of the near stock RPM limit, even with built heads.
Thank you master Steve 👍🏼
Your 100% right Steve
If it wasn't for people like you, I would've given mine away. Thanks for the information.
#stevetuned 1998 rs with 06 sti swap you've tuned, 350hp on a kill map.. 6k miles of weekend driving, freeway onramp pulls, drag racing, etc. Still here!! Its all about part combination with the correct tuner to keep it going! No shots at bader, you just happened to tune me before you went to PRE. Keep up the good work man.
I dont think it's a shot at bader, I think hes just saying people are assuming you can make 500+ on a stock block without an issue. IT WILL HAVE ISSUES EVENTUALLY!
Steve I would like to see you do a detailed video on the EJ 257 head port design and why Subaru did what they did.
Good one, I’ll see what I can do.
And not to mention, there putting big huge turbos on, with massive a/r's. Absolutely crap on the street
Steve, the #1 reason I bought that engine from you; you built it. #stevetuned Much love man! ~Damian
Bottom line 90% of the people out there can’t afford to have them properly built to make the power they are waiting!!! They are on the 900hp/tq mindset but on an EBay budget. #facts
Really ? The best thing is to get a Time Machine , go back to like 2019 when you could get a STI a little below sticker (and your choice of colors on the lot) and keep it stock … buy a coyote mustang if need want more than 400 😂
Steve, you hit the nail on the head with the metallurgy these motor are sand casted as well as the pistons. I pour the Gucci of metals in the aerospace industry. Metal is your friend and your enemy. Heat!!!!!! Heat!!!!!!! Heat!!!! Failure!!!!!!! Right metal Gucci revert metal Pookie lol!!!!
seems like youre calling out bader
And it's not a little bit of money, it's a lot of damn money.
There are subtle hints at Bader and it's very true. He has set unrealistic expectations for everyone but does it for the content. That being said he also makes sure to include disclaimers saying how it won't last etc. which is nice but people seem to ignore that part. Great video Steve!
You are very correct Steve it is making our jobs very hard and frustrating
Thank you for this video ❤
Well said, Steve. Thank you for putting this video out. Give community the right knowledge/ info.
Giving out good game, definitely appreciate it
Good commentary, this is great information that will help the community big time. And to your point doing a build on Subies AIN"T cheap at all which is why I'm building conservatively for a daily driver.
Thanks Steve only facts
This idiocy reminds me of 15-20 years ago when everybody was all hyped about the EJ22T just because it was closed deck and had oil squirters .... common guys... cast pistons on high Psi cars just don't mix... 😮💨
Seriously…some comment are way too childish… Do what you want with your car,there’s milion way of making power,good or bad,you make the choice of builder,tuner,parts,driving style.
I agree with Steve in his way but if you wanna break record or number,do some! There is no single way to do thing and it’s all right!✌️🖖🤘🤌
Thank you so much for making this video if I hear one more person tell me well my friends stock motor did this and that IDC it’s going to EXPLODE and they didn’t even build it a hack shop did. I’ll be fine with my built motor still driving it
Dropping the knowledge.
I like the fact we all know you are talking about Bader but you dont say his name.
Prime Motoring to the front. Very similar stuff, great video
Love my prime built car
Very wise words 👌🏻 and massive knowledge🙌🏻 Steve get back on that chanel and keep going ! 👍🏻👍🏻
I understand where you’re going with this Steve. Build it right the first time so you won’t have to do it again. I’ve gone through two stock ej205 motors to learn to just get a built motor. You live and you learn.
My mentor always told me engines don't die they are murdered. But I do think that in the future everyone will be f24 swapping there sti, those numbers there making is crazy I fully built my motor just to make 400 wheel horsepower
I enjoyed this info as always i enjoyed your work with Bader and I hope you guys haven't fallen out over this concept..I must say I watch bader less with this concept than when he built more street cars and specific use cars
I picked up a blouch 1.5xtr 8cm for a really good deal and dropped it onto my stock 2014 ej257 STI block. 1050's, e85, KB headers, Fluidampr, AEM 340, Grimmspeed downpipe, 44mm tial EWG. Making 389whp @5650/406wtq @4700 on 21 psi. Turbo starts spooling up about 3800 which is pretty nice for staying out of boost most of the time putting around town. im planning on some more reliability focused stuff including a radium hanger/iwire controller to nip the overheating wire possibility and an oil cooler setup. no plans to track this car in any way, just a fun 350-400ish daily that i dont have to worry about in 10 inches of iowa snow. In your opinion is this really pushing the limits of longevity for these engines in stock trim? I've considered swapping back down to a smaller turbo or asking for a low boost tune and swapping wastegate springs. what would your ideal max longevity/fun build look like?
Thank you
I agree with this my car got ringland with only 10k miles on my 2019 Sti with no mods whatsoever so where’s the ra block at like wtf 😳
You're right, as usual. You're not a novice and we're following you from here in europe. Thanks for your accent. Understable ..
I completely agree that Subarus are great vehicles and can take a beating if done right. Fact of the matter is that many people don't know or understand the technical details behind modifying a vehicle and the requirements for keeping a modified vehicle running. I work in IT and even a lot of IT people don't understand what is really happening behind the GUI or what is required to make hardware and software run optimally, so take your average person and safely assume that the complexities of owning a modified vehicle never crossed their mind. I watch Bader's videos, he mentions that pushing a stock engine isn't reliable, but you can guarantee that numerous people aren't going to listen to that disclaimer. Best thing you can do is try to educate people, tell them that you're not going to send their motor but that you'll be glad to sell them a proper replacement and a tune when they do send it somewhere else.
*the office THANK YOU*.gif
Steve, are the S209 blocks available from Subaru or do you have to submit paperwork to prove you own a S209 in order to purchase? Also does that battery tester have another unit that will test Braille lithium race batteries for example?
I don’t believe they are available over the parts counter last time I checked it’s a very limited production
A stock jdm ej205 with good compression how much hp you recommend
Your boy Bader is one if not the worst at misinformation! It's more of a circus show than building and tuning.
How so??
@@gtlyearsley_84 go watch his videos. 600,700, and 800 on stock blocks all day long.
wise words !
What’s the max WHP for stock block on the safe side?
400-450 is what most will say. Let's see what Steve says though.
BADER BLOWN RACING #MOONTOON
Facts! People are just cheap searching for a magic HP number. If it takes ya three stoplight lengths to get into the powerband, what's the point. Save up, overbuild and stop listening to internet clowns. Haha
I think the ej207 from v7 sti 2002 it as forged internals can get 450whp all day
I'm glad I stopped taking my car to BBR there just over there for the clout some people don't see the real josh intell you spend thousands of $$$ and your car still runs like shit 😂
I’ve been reading this kind of stuff over and over. It’s hard to believe, but I’ve never meet the guy.
Same with his buddies. That Devin guys blows up something every other month.
I miss his old videos where he was still at his house out of his garage dealing with his crazy neighbor Bob. I find it hard to believe that Josh would do shady work. His video show very high quality work and he does say over and over again in his videos that these motors will not last you need to go with a built motor for that. Steve is right though since I also own an EVO that you can't just keep blowing up parts. These parts are going to dry up and no longer be available like what is happening to the evo 8/9 market.
@@buffetline2605devin is not a mechanic but he try his best to help him self . A jack of all trade
Lol , tell ‘em
I got 32,000 on my stock block pushing 750 wheel. It's all in the tuning
What does it run though? 1/4 mile or dragy?😂
Do you beat on it every weekend or race it at track events?
😂🤣
As long as ur happy and having fun along with going fast & eating ass doesn't matter what ya dueing it in life's way too short as it is plus ur shortening it with the hobby soo don't let stupid stuff get too you and make u angry ur wasting time on negative crap . Everyone's build is there build and choices what happens happens that's what u learn from and build better next go around any modifications you add too any engine is putting the motor into the chance of blowing up section and if u don't kno that then they shouldn't be building / modifying engines 🤷♂️
All so josh bader built motor type ra sti with stock location turbo with fp green turbo i don't believe he's ra sti engine stock
It was indeed 100% stock when it went 10.50 @ 130mph and did many mid 10 sec passes.
Bro good video
They did change the pistons. There is more meat in between the top of the piston and the ringland thats the only difference anyone has been able to find. God you have to love the internet lmao. Please people remember there is such thing as video magic
Next video I will go into more depth on the Ra block
Excellent video! I can't believe people are that fkn stupid to actually believe that a stock motor can make that sort of power. A twin turbo AMG has 8cyls for a freaking reason!
Its always better to overbuild the engine. I am running a IAG stage 2 on a stock STI . I BEAT ON IT WITH NO FEAR, bad fuel, ehh it will hold, its a 100f out side, eh!! It will hold.
I couldn't disagree with you more. Completely unprofessional and quite pompous. Do better.
👋👋👋👋🤙
Thanks you for saying this Reddit is full of sorry to say this but idiot’s all ways telling people get a 2019+ cause of the RA block 😂 an I’m over hearing rolling my eyes cause they don’t even bother to look at the difference between it’s been documented in NASOIC
I've see all over the Facebook pages of people asking what a stock block can handle and its just sad stop being cheap and skipping over something so crucial to the build and as for bader he is one of the main causes look at that Chester guy who was at like 900whp on the stock block he missed a shift and blew it people who do UA-cam need to think before making a video people are gonna watch and see what your doing and some want to do the samething your doing so stop making these clickbait videos steve is just saying want no one really wants to hear and its the truth
I can tell your upset because Bader is doing everything you wanted to do in life. While you're forced to work at PRE while Bader is running his own shop like you always dreamed of. Hatred driven by jealousy is very dangerous brother. Don't prey on somebody's success because of your own failures. It's not a good look for the Subaru community.
I wouldn’t be so quick to assume he wanted to run his own shop. And I also wouldn’t be so quick to assume Josh “has it made” doing his own thing. It’s extremely risky on your own. Steve has a certain amount of job security and is doing something he loves while someone else assumes all the risk. I get what Steve is saying, unfortunately it’s this way with a lot of things. We are a very impatient society now. And many people purchase based on what others have done or recommended. We see a lot of people successfully doing things, but hardly any of the failures. I’ll hand it to Josh, he does show the bad side of things in his videos. I don’t think this is directed at Josh entirely. I think it’s directed at the community as a whole.
Obviously you have NO idea what your taking about! You may think you know but I assure you you don’t!
This has me literally laughing out loud
Are you trolling? 😂😂 you have to be trolling 😂😂
Josh has made it that’s for sure! He definitely seems like he has more disposable income then the average dude. I’m pretty positive he’s making most of his money tuning. I do miss his old school videos at his house. But in order to grow you gotta do bigger things. Life is a gamble. And he has taken a huge leap then where he was 3 years ago.
Bro just stop!!! Others have done direct side by side comparisons of the pistons. The ringlands, as well as the wrist pins are obviously different. I understand your point of view but stop spreading misinformation.
I suggest you watch the part 2 of this video where I sit down and actually show the RA piston and explain.