Jordan, I don’t know if you’ll ever see this…. But I wanted to tell you that I went to see you at the height of COVID with my sister, and we were watching you like a hawk. We were watching to see how you treated people when a pandemic was raging and the societal pressure for you to distance yourself from your fans was immense. You ABSOLUTELY exceeded our expectations and showed us you were who you said you were. You didn’t make people wear masks, you shook your fans’ hands and let them take pictures with you, and you were HIGHLY attentive; listening and understanding people when they answered your questions. It was after these moments that I knew that who I was seeing on my tiny screen was who you actually were. You gave a lot of people hope that day. Thank you for being true to who you say you are. You are a true hero.
That was my experience, too. When I met him, I was too shy at first to go up to him because I was not sure he would be the same in person as he is on camera but he IS. Exactly the same. He was so gentle and tender with this shy one. He set me instantly at ease.
John and Jordan haven't yet seen that a consciousness can't choose what it thinks, nor what it values, nor what its will is. As soon as you see this (and it was 10 years of hear Watts say "You don't control your thoughts. You don't control your feelings" before the implications finally hit me)... you see that control is an illusion. This thing is a flowering, and we never escape the consequences, but also nothing is in control. And the ego THINKS control is a thing, and thus it can have more, and it goes crazy trying. Hence the solution (if there is one, in a situation in which control is an illusion) is faith: because nothing is up to us. I left a very long comment on this video going through the thought process in detail, and I think you'd appreciate it. I've wished Jordan would mention Watts for years. We'll see :)
Oh what a DELIGHT!!! I am so glad that you and John are once again in conversation. Dearest Dr. Peterson, I was thinking of something I wanted to share with you, if I can find the words. You were talking in a recent interview about what effects your illness had on you and then in the next breath about studying atrocity and I had an intuitive leap. For many years, you put yourself in the place of the perpetrator, the inflictor of agony. And then when you got sick, you felt, in your own body, in your own nerves and sinews, the levels of pain that the victims of those atrocities must have felt. When you could not rest for hours, you were, in your own flesh, at one with the suffering man who carried the load of salt across the compound… and back. You embodied the suffering that you knew yourself capable of inflicting. And that was your memento mori, your hair shirt, your atonement… at one-ment. And perhaps the residual pain you are still experiencing is your hair shirt. And that perhaps your Soviet art served as your hair shirt before you got sick, and you don’t need it anymore. Fairly grim reflections on my part. On a more positive note, I think you were spared to us for precisely the times we are in now. As St. Paul said to the Philippians, “I thank my God upon every remembrance of you.” With Ruth Anne’s love
I cannot recommend highly enough, when he goes back on tour, purchasing a meet and greet ticket and going to see him. You just can’t imagine how sweet he is in person. You will only get a few seconds to talk to him but you can pack a lot into those seconds.
Meaning and meaningless are both part of an orbital spectrum of their entropy, that includes both meanings of it's ultimate symmetry and infinite complexity, and we and the universe are always in transit between the two, on the arrow of time. If the universe is finite, it's cyclic or multi cyclic, it transits through perfect symmetry by the force of dilating yet unstoppable time, so the god of cyclical universe is time. However if universe is infinite, the probability of perfect symmetry or infinite complexity become zero, and an infinite universe doesn't even need time to get started. And we didn't violate or lose meaning by achieving this level.
Glad Dr. Peterson addressed the Christians that are compelling/inviting him to propositionalize his beliefs. I'm curious why it is hard for some Christians to recognize that the existential level of faith is deeper than the propositional level.
I enjoyed listening to Dr Jordan Peterson and Dr John Vervaeke, two great Canadian intellectuals. Good to hear that Dr Vervaeke enjoyed filming his three lecture series for Peterson Academy. Sorely tempted to sign up for Peterson Academy, as one of those 60-something students. Just need to see what secure payment systems are in place for those of us in Europe. I hope Dr Peterson can spend less time on social media, it is not an uplifting experience for the most part and, as he said, the trolls, bots and scammers are everywhere. So many people are glued to their phones, I have to swerve to avoid crashing into them in the street. I was impressed that Dr Vervaeke underwent Jungian psychoanalysis, I'd imagine that there would not be many Jungian psychologists out there these days, cognitive behavioural therapy having been in favour for a good while now.
I have been reflecting on meaning in my own life, and what I have always found meaning in. And for me, raised fundamentalist Christian as I was, the answer to the question “what is the meaning of life?” is always found in the Puritan catechism: “To glorify God, and enjoy Him forever.” And I certainly don’t mean to be, as Lewis said, “so heavenly minded that they are no earthly good.” I used to be that way, a bit, because I spent a lot of time studying the Bible when I was a kid, but since having kids myself I’ve got pretty earthy. It’s more like, as the old Puritan saying has it, to live “in view of eternity.” To live in this world and for the next one. And I think that, given the great apostasy of our time, the great falling away that St. Paul wrote of, the loss of religion and faith that gave life meaning, it is no blessed wonder we are in a meaning crisis. If we think that this life is all there is- than what the hell is the point of anything? But if we think- as I do- that we are laying up treasure in Heaven, if we are building on the foundation gold, and silver, and precious stones, then we have that which gives meaning even to the greatest suffering. With Ruth Anne’s love
The 12 links of dependent origination say that consciousness is ignorance. This should be significant for scholars of Western philosophy. The context of which the 12 links of dependent origination was written for attainment of complete dissolution of self. But if this context could be taken out by modern research, then this very early study of human consciousness can finally allow Western philosophy to achieve a widespread consensus for a distinction between consciousness and that which precedes it. That which precedes consciousness will never again be confused for consciousness because the continual fight to remove one from the other will be understood by all scholars whether they intend to achieve enlightenment or they intend to do what Buddhism never could; and that is to, discover and grant the utility of the many states of consciousness rather than cast them aside on the path to enlightenment. I believe that Buddhism is the only tradition that actually found a method that now makes it possible for more direct paths to exist, like non-duality philosophy, and could not have done so without disbelieving in the utility of consciousness. It is time for Buddhism to be interpreted with this context so that everyone can really understand why the 12 links of dependent origination say that everything, including consciousness, is illusion.
You are suffering because you are misidentifying with something that you are Not. Navigating thru life from from a past that you cannot change & a perception/expectation of a future that hasnt yet occured.
Those who value Might (career, rank) above Right (truth, morality) demonstrate this in weaponising language and discourse, in that their goals are the harvesting or retention of power. They see everything as a zero sum game, since whatever power others have, they don't, and hence language is to obfuscate and annihilate (very conspicuous in modern discourse). Conversely, those who value right over might use language and discourse to elucidate and communicate. They have to exercise faith that this will lead somewhere good because the discourse is conducted under the insecure open sky of possibility. Truth is not lost because it is shared, and hence is a win/win scenario. It is like the game of paddle tennis where the 2 players have a vertical pole with a helix on top, and a ball on a string. The two players can fight in opposite directions and achieve stasis, or play in the same direction, and rapidly achieve an end. This is like a scintillating conversation between two generous and facile minds (ie. this conversation).
Hope. This talk makes me hopeful and more brave...Agape. Who talks like this? Human beings who love other human beings. It matters what you put in your brain. Thanks for giving me something that will sink into my psyche, feed my soul and not cause me to break any more teeth.
As far as "glow" that follows Peterson around wherever he goes, same thing must have been going on during the time of Jesus going place to place. Angels seem to be at his shoulder.
God’s Wisdom is perfect God’s Love is perfect And God’s Mercy is perfect Those of us captured by our fleshly bodies will never fully understand. Seeking God in trust and faith is our only chance to be redeemed ❤
If you believe women to be prone to apathy in a controlling environment, and men are prone to psychopathy it’s fearful as the curse on the language of what would be void of the need fear has for disbelief in goodness.
@jordanpetterson I would really appreciate an opportunity to have a conversation with you about this to give you some other perspectives to think logically about.
You can't beat the feeling of getting "caught up" in exploratory conversation. It's one of the main joys in my life even though it doesn't happen as often as I would like... 🌹🪷🏵️🪷🌹
Two of my favorite Professors together, can't go wrong with this one.
From Ghana 🇬🇭 I admire theses two great thinkers a lot
Love you two speaking together. The conversations are always so much more elevated than any others, with all due respect.
Jordan, I don’t know if you’ll ever see this…. But I wanted to tell you that I went to see you at the height of COVID with my sister, and we were watching you like a hawk. We were watching to see how you treated people when a pandemic was raging and the societal pressure for you to distance yourself from your fans was immense. You ABSOLUTELY exceeded our expectations and showed us you were who you said you were. You didn’t make people wear masks, you shook your fans’ hands and let them take pictures with you, and you were HIGHLY attentive; listening and understanding people when they answered your questions. It was after these moments that I knew that who I was seeing on my tiny screen was who you actually were. You gave a lot of people hope that day. Thank you for being true to who you say you are. You are a true hero.
Such a thoughtful comment
Fuck Yeah!! 🫡
That was my experience, too. When I met him, I was too shy at first to go up to him because I was not sure he would be the same in person as he is on camera but he IS. Exactly the same. He was so gentle and tender with this shy one. He set me instantly at ease.
C0V!D was the real test.
Sure wish Allan Watt's was still alive... a debate or conversation between he and Jordan and John would be mind boggling!
It sure would. Great thinkers who care about human thriving
John and Jordan haven't yet seen that a consciousness can't choose what it thinks, nor what it values, nor what its will is. As soon as you see this (and it was 10 years of hear Watts say "You don't control your thoughts. You don't control your feelings" before the implications finally hit me)... you see that control is an illusion.
This thing is a flowering, and we never escape the consequences, but also nothing is in control. And the ego THINKS control is a thing, and thus it can have more, and it goes crazy trying. Hence the solution (if there is one, in a situation in which control is an illusion) is faith: because nothing is up to us.
I left a very long comment on this video going through the thought process in detail, and I think you'd appreciate it. I've wished Jordan would mention Watts for years. We'll see :)
did you see my earlier response? I think youtube is deleting my comments
John’s shoe game is point just as much as this conversation
Air Jordan Petersons
After all these years daily wire still just slaps advertisements anywhere in the video no matter if someone is in the middle of a sentence or not
Oh what a DELIGHT!!! I am so glad that you and John are once again in conversation.
Dearest Dr. Peterson, I was thinking of something I wanted to share with you, if I can find the words. You were talking in a recent interview about what effects your illness had on you and then in the next breath about studying atrocity and I had an intuitive leap. For many years, you put yourself in the place of the perpetrator, the inflictor of agony. And then when you got sick, you felt, in your own body, in your own nerves and sinews, the levels of pain that the victims of those atrocities must have felt. When you could not rest for hours, you were, in your own flesh, at one with the suffering man who carried the load of salt across the compound… and back. You embodied the suffering that you knew yourself capable of inflicting. And that was your memento mori, your hair shirt, your atonement… at one-ment. And perhaps the residual pain you are still experiencing is your hair shirt. And that perhaps your Soviet art served as your hair shirt before you got sick, and you don’t need it anymore.
Fairly grim reflections on my part.
On a more positive note, I think you were spared to us for precisely the times we are in now. As St. Paul said to the Philippians, “I thank my God upon every remembrance of you.”
With Ruth Anne’s love
I haven't even watched it yet and I already know it's going to be great. Love when these two speak
Vervaeke rocking Air Jordan Petersons?! Whaaaat!
I wish these guys were my friends
Live long and prosper 🖖
This man is my favorite of your guests.
So bright that it almost hurts the mind.
I wish I could talk to him one day, may God keep him healthy with long life.
I cannot recommend highly enough, when he goes back on tour, purchasing a meet and greet ticket and going to see him. You just can’t imagine how sweet he is in person. You will only get a few seconds to talk to him but you can pack a lot into those seconds.
Mr. Vervaeke, please do an audible version of your book.
Meaning and meaningless are both part of an orbital spectrum of their entropy, that includes both meanings of it's ultimate symmetry and infinite complexity, and we and the universe are always in transit between the two, on the arrow of time. If the universe is finite, it's cyclic or multi cyclic, it transits through perfect symmetry by the force of dilating yet unstoppable time, so the god of cyclical universe is time. However if universe is infinite, the probability of perfect symmetry or infinite complexity become zero, and an infinite universe doesn't even need time to get started. And we didn't violate or lose meaning by achieving this level.
Loved this. Hung on every word.
Glad Dr. Peterson addressed the Christians that are compelling/inviting him to propositionalize his beliefs. I'm curious why it is hard for some Christians to recognize that the existential level of faith is deeper than the propositional level.
I enjoyed listening to Dr Jordan Peterson and Dr John Vervaeke, two great Canadian intellectuals. Good to hear that Dr Vervaeke enjoyed filming his three lecture series for Peterson Academy. Sorely tempted to sign up for Peterson Academy, as one of those 60-something students. Just need to see what secure payment systems are in place for those of us in Europe. I hope Dr Peterson can spend less time on social media, it is not an uplifting experience for the most part and, as he said, the trolls, bots and scammers are everywhere. So many people are glued to their phones, I have to swerve to avoid crashing into them in the street. I was impressed that Dr Vervaeke underwent Jungian psychoanalysis, I'd imagine that there would not be many Jungian psychologists out there these days, cognitive behavioural therapy having been in favour for a good while now.
Thank you Jordan, love and hope you bring.
80% of Creation has been laid out for us; but yet we continue to argue about the other 20. Thank you FATHER for Your GRACE.
I enjoyed this. Might go back to school😊
Yay!
Am well taught too!
Very well articulated among both of them.
This was a truly inspirational and insightful conversation, thank you guys so much for sharing❤
JP is so close to Christianity, he just needs to be humble and repentant
Two giant minds clash two of my favourite giant minds at that ❤
I have been reflecting on meaning in my own life, and what I have always found meaning in. And for me, raised fundamentalist Christian as I was, the answer to the question “what is the meaning of life?” is always found in the Puritan catechism: “To glorify God, and enjoy Him forever.” And I certainly don’t mean to be, as Lewis said, “so heavenly minded that they are no earthly good.” I used to be that way, a bit, because I spent a lot of time studying the Bible when I was a kid, but since having kids myself I’ve got pretty earthy. It’s more like, as the old Puritan saying has it, to live “in view of eternity.” To live in this world and for the next one.
And I think that, given the great apostasy of our time, the great falling away that St. Paul wrote of, the loss of religion and faith that gave life meaning, it is no blessed wonder we are in a meaning crisis. If we think that this life is all there is- than what the hell is the point of anything? But if we think- as I do- that we are laying up treasure in Heaven, if we are building on the foundation gold, and silver, and precious stones, then we have that which gives meaning even to the greatest suffering.
With Ruth Anne’s love
The trite nature of the ad breaks contrasts so dramatically with the depth of the conversation 😆
The 12 links of dependent origination say that consciousness is ignorance. This should be significant for scholars of Western philosophy. The context of which the 12 links of dependent origination was written for attainment of complete dissolution of self. But if this context could be taken out by modern research, then this very early study of human consciousness can finally allow Western philosophy to achieve a widespread consensus for a distinction between consciousness and that which precedes it. That which precedes consciousness will never again be confused for consciousness because the continual fight to remove one from the other will be understood by all scholars whether they intend to achieve enlightenment or they intend to do what Buddhism never could; and that is to, discover and grant the utility of the many states of consciousness rather than cast them aside on the path to enlightenment. I believe that Buddhism is the only tradition that actually found a method that now makes it possible for more direct paths to exist, like non-duality philosophy, and could not have done so without disbelieving in the utility of consciousness. It is time for Buddhism to be interpreted with this context so that everyone can really understand why the 12 links of dependent origination say that everything, including consciousness, is illusion.
I will never miss a John Vervaeke interview. I've learned so much from him.
Two Canadians criticising the only real free speech platform. Fitting.
Thank you, sir.
The two brilliant minds meet again
I have not heard the Timothy O'Leary for over 40 years. My mother disliked that man.
You are suffering because you are misidentifying with something that you are Not. Navigating thru life from from a past that you cannot change & a perception/expectation of a future that hasnt yet occured.
Plato studied Moses writings in Egypt according to a guy I know
vervaeke with the mike’s on! 😂
nice 1’s professor.
JP and his favourite pal at it again 😂! IAnother convo that transcends the cosmos
Dig it when these two talk. Enjoy these conversations more than the political ones.
Be cool to see JBP and Bishop Mari Mari talk.
Veraveke is great. ❤
Been waiting for you to have him back on! Man you are on a roll and the PA is amazing
Nice Jordan 1s 👟
Those who value Might (career, rank) above Right (truth, morality) demonstrate this in weaponising language and discourse, in that their goals are the harvesting or retention of power. They see everything as a zero sum game, since whatever power others have, they don't, and hence language is to obfuscate and annihilate (very conspicuous in modern discourse). Conversely, those who value right over might use language and discourse to elucidate and communicate. They have to exercise faith that this will lead somewhere good because the discourse is conducted under the insecure open sky of possibility. Truth is not lost because it is shared, and hence is a win/win scenario. It is like the game of paddle tennis where the 2 players have a vertical pole with a helix on top, and a ball on a string. The two players can fight in opposite directions and achieve stasis, or play in the same direction, and rapidly achieve an end. This is like a scintillating conversation between two generous and facile minds (ie. this conversation).
Finally... more meaning 😎👍🙏
Bro be so clunky tho
🦋🙏🏽
Hope. This talk makes me hopeful and more brave...Agape. Who talks like this? Human beings who love other human beings. It matters what you put in your brain. Thanks for giving me something that will sink into my psyche, feed my soul and not cause me to break any more teeth.
As far as "glow" that follows Peterson around wherever he goes, same thing must have been going on during the time of Jesus going place to place. Angels seem to be at his shoulder.
🎉🎉
God’s Wisdom is perfect
God’s Love is perfect
And God’s Mercy is perfect
Those of us captured by our fleshly bodies will never fully understand. Seeking God in trust and faith is our only chance to be redeemed ❤
Sorry but guy is a joke soon you’ll know if you don’t already
If Jordan actually cared about truth, he would be more open to opposing ideas and would probably look into facts more before he speaks on topics.
Be more specific if you want to get the most value from your comment.
❤Happy Agape Love Day ❤ Agape love is sacrificial! This is the way
Letsssss gooooo0oooooo ❤
32:12 It's like the cosmic quarterback is always asking "hey who's open?"
If you believe women to be prone to apathy in a controlling environment, and men are prone to psychopathy it’s fearful as the curse on the language of what would be void of the need fear has for disbelief in goodness.
22nd, 19 September 2024
first comment
Ok
gj penguin
❤
🎉
Poggers
15:10 So it's not that all areas of the Mandelbrot set exist independent of any who wander into it. The ground requires the foot.
Third
@jordanpetterson I would really appreciate an opportunity to have a conversation with you about this to give you some other perspectives to think logically about.
Peterson is my best friend in this world, he portrays the best in me 🤌🏾
You can't beat the feeling of getting "caught up" in exploratory conversation. It's one of the main joys in my life even though it doesn't happen as often as I would like...
🌹🪷🏵️🪷🌹