Nice video, I have stainless steel and aluminum camping cookware. I agree with your analysis of titanium not being worth the price with aluminum being much less expensive and not that much heavier. Thanks for the video.
I don't really see this as a "scam." Most people who get titanium know that they are only for either boiling water, and are also going really like with dehydrated foods, whether freeze dried backpacking meals or Knorr rice sides etc.
Don’t trust a guy who puts pink shrink wrap on his cup handles. Titanium boils water quick and cools off quick without giving you Alzheimer’s like aluminum.
I own still some aluminium containers but don't use them any more for cooking purposes, instead I'm using stainless steel since decades and titanium since many years, and I don't have any problems whiles cooking. The thing is, I use either small wood stoves or ethanol burners, and every once in a while I use good old Esbit/Hexamine tablets as fuel, but never use gas again. IMHO, it is less the pot material but more the stove which creates problems when cooking outdoors. These modern standard outdoor gas stoves are totally great for getting very fast your water boiling, but they act similar to bunsen burners and heat up only a small spot of the cookware, and even worse, they burn all too hot, what makes them great for modern style of dehydrated meal cooking i.e. heating up water, but makes them at the same time almost completely useless for any other/normal cooking. You can use heat diffusors or try it with aluminium or copper or even iron pots and pans, but you will always have somewhere a hot spot and won't get even heat distribution whatever you try with those stoves. Also most of the commercial wood stoves are nowadays completely over dimensioned - as the size of the combustion chamber is usually too big they are misleading the users to burn too much of wood in order to have a 'nice' fire, what results in extreme heat which is usually too much for common cooking purposes, and some of these stoves are even increasing the heat by adding extra oxygen (with the help of a little fan, or since the construction principle of a rocket stove creates that heat). You could start a blacksmith business with those stoves, but for cooking ... well, why would you heat up your fire sooo much? At home, nobody would ever cook at the highest level the kitchen stove can offer, except maybe for heating up water (in case you don't have a kettle). Usually we use at home small or medium heat for cooking, nobody puts bacon and eggs on highest flame because every kid knows it would burn in. That is simply common sense and has nothing to do with the pans or pots we use. But it seems, in the outdoors, everybody wants to have the highest heat possible, and fires up a bottle of gas or half a forest in order to get something done ... and I'm not sure whether almost everybody nowadays uses dehydrated meals and uses stoves in the outdoors just for boiling water, or whether it has to do with the fact that most reviews and comparisions of stoves you find on youtube just measure how fast one can boil a certain quantity of water. What might be a certain standard to prove that a stove in fact emitts some heat, but has basically nothing to do with cooking. If one uses the right amount of heat, and the right technique (e.g. adding a little bit of oil or water etc.), any pot or pan can do it.
I certainly simmer things, and find it really tricky on gas stoves, as you say their heat is too localised, too strong, too quick, even on lower power. Hence why since making this video I've been expeimenting with alcohol stoves, which seem far better at this stuff, and you can simmer them. Sure, a stove and caldera cone can get water boiled quickly - in a few minutes, but I like the flexibility of letting something simmer like I would at home, for longer.
@@harduphiker Since a couple of years I challenge myself to reduce the amount of wood I need for cooking. I find it really interesting to experiment in that direction and I'm often astonished with what small amounts of wood one can properly cook. I think this is not only key for a satisfying cooking experience but also good for the environment.
@@bangalorebobbel yeah I struggled with that, even my smaller wood gas stove (as displayed in my recent video on stoves) burns WAY to fast. Not sure why, and the Biolite is like that too. It's why I shifted to alcohol as a sort of middle ground, slower but more steady?
@@harduphiker yes woodgas stoves are almost uncontrollable. At least for me, I never could master the gas output in terms of more or less gas. Either it works or not, it is just a very binary fire. And biolite is like having a blacksmith's forge - you add purposely a lot more oxygen to your fire as required for a normal burn and get automatically a hotter flame. For boiling water that is nice, you have a jet boil, but for cooking a nice meal just nonsensical. Over the years I found most modern stoves I tried highly overheating if you want to use them for cooking. The burning chamber is usually too big - so if you put less wood inside, it doesn't burn nicely since the chimney effect is not working. And if you put enough wood inside to feed the fire that it burns steadily, it becomes too hot. I experimented a lot with different sized commercial stoves and also self made stoves of all kind, and found best results when I used the smallest ones. (There is a video on my channel from a couple of years back, titled rice cooking challenge (or something like that), where I used a very small kind of IKEA stove. That size is totally enough for most cooking purposes, but 99% of all commercial stoves are bigger, many even much bigger.) Alcohol stoves can often be better controlled - but you have to carry the alcohol with you. And not to forget the costs - wood is usually for free, alcohol has its price ... Also Esbit/Hexamine stoves can be easily controlled. You can add tablets or split the tablets, you can put them upright in order to get more surface burning or lay them flat in order to get a lower flame, you can also add wood or any other burning stuff, and so on. But you should not use these stoves indoors or in your tent, since the hexamine fumes can be toxic, and especially if you use aluminium pots, you waste sometimes a lot of time with cleaning your pots ...
A tip for those who already invested in the titanium gear: to improve the spreading of heat over the entire surface, make sure you have a liquid base: baking butter, oil or water. Even when making a rizotto, add a spoonful of water and a spoonful of oil and stir like you never stirred before. The liquid will carry the heat better than the titanium since it will flow, and it will also transfer the heat faster into your food, preventing the highest temperatures in the metal. Of course, when hiking you don't want to be hauling too much extra. In my experience, having that bit of extra luxury weight increases the quality of your meal dramatically and certainly is worth it.
That is what I did - didn't add the oil, but stirred like crazy with plenty of water, every time...still stuck and burned to the bottom. Aluminium hasn't done this at all. I don't think the few extra grams is luxury really, more necessity when your food burns, but if you heat only water then titanium is fine. Then you're likely using expensive ready made ultra-processed food with usually non-reusable packaging. YMMV but to me, your health and not ruining the planet isn't a luxury...
@@harduphiker I agree. But usually the ones who get the pricey stuff for weight reduction, do get indeed the MRE (that only need to be heated in water anyway, for which the titanium is good, as you indicated) and don't care about the planet one bit, only about their personal bragging rights. I'm not sure how my mileage will be impacted, tho? =)) If not ruining the planet is high on the agenda, I'd say make do with what you have, and when there's an option to not have, then don't have. That's what I do every day :))
@@lukearts2954 yes I do that, although obviously if the gear isn't doing the job, it's fine to use something else. But it's why my gear reviews are going to get less and more of an ongoing 'field test' because if it works, then I don't need anything else. Also I think the whole 'hey I have this new shiny thing' and then you don't see it next week is not good. I want to see stuff being used over time, that's more valuable than one video (and indeed this aluminium pot, and even the titanium pot have appeared in many videos and will continue to, with ongoing review with the Fire Maple, like when the Fire Maple lid melted....otherwise love it)
I've accumulated a shockingly large collection of camping pots, pans, canteens and cups. I switched back to stainless steel if I'm going out for more than one night solely because I can use it on an open fire if needed
@@Two_Names yes, if I was doing camp fires, and that sort of thing I'd choose stainless...but my first pot was SO heavy...hence why I went to titanium without really researching it. I always wondered why people were cooking with aluminium or stainless...I now know!
I tried to cook an egg in titanium at home after getting a Snow Peak set. Egg burned terribly and pot was very very difficult to clean. I learned the limitations of titanium there that it works for boiling water and that's about it.
Yes it's really water and not much else. Even going back to it earlier this year I was surprised how bad it was at cooking even slowly on an alcohol stove.
I get around burning food by using less heat. Works for me with aluminium, ti and stainless. I use what is possibly the simplest home made alcohol stoves. Works for me but I've got a lot of flak for suggesting it. I recently picked up a set of ex military mess tins and found that they cook a lot better than the cheap copies probably due to the original ones being a lot thicker.
I agree with you, I do a lot of cooking with a Speedster stove and a simmer ring. I still get a little sticking - like my noodles on Saturday during the Peak District Collab - but nothing welds itself like my Titanium pot.
@@harduphiker Could that be because titanium is anodised? The anodising process doesn't add colour as such but makes lots of very small holes that scatter light. Maybe polishing the surface would help?
@@EpicureanHikers could be - I am going to use it again for the first time since this video on a project where I need to be light as possible, so I'll see how that goes. I don't think the Ti is anodised, but could have been, certainly the bottom isn't now cos I had to scratch the burnt stuff off, hence the 'white powder' which apparently was Ti Oxide.
Great! You confirmed all my fears about titanium. I am not sold on titanium. No need to try it myself now. Anyway the price is crazy for a metal that may not be genuine titanium. Particularly out if China.
I suspect they might be alloys, maybe with zinc (which although far from super poisonous cos again it oxidises, not totally a good idea especially with acidic foods). Hence the white powder when I scratched my titanium pot.
I am confused by this - you're not the only one commenting about using a diffuser here. But surely a diffuser + Titanium pot destroys any weight advantage? You may as well use aluminium or stainless.
Some good points. Titanium is a good solution for a light-weight water boiler, but cooking proteins or carbohydrates will prove troublesome in thin titanium or thin stainless. Neither metal spreads the heat laterally well enough. On all but the largest burners, you get one smaller, super-hot, spot. That's less of a problem with a really wide burner or a bed of coals. Some camp pans made of stainless steel will have clad bottoms ( 2 layers of steel that sandwich a layer of aluminum between), and that works better.
I rewarm premade rice (Uncle Bens) on ti. The trick is to put quite a bit of water int, enough to coat the bottom of the pot and a bit. That stops hotspotting, the water quickly boils then steams up. By that time the food is usually done. My protiens are either salami died in (no cooking required) or I have a separate BBQ.
I haven't done the science but it seems to me one will carry an additional weight of fuel to overcome the conductivity resistant titanium. Titanium is used in rocket fairings and high speed aircraft because it is more resistant to heating in the friction of air that would soften other metals.
I hadn't thought of that, but yes, that is a point that to warm up your food and keep it warm, you need more fuel to offset the rapid cooling of titanium.
That is indeed proper (ultra)light hiking, not expensive gear, just take the bare minimum. I am trying to do a combo of both, reduce weight where it's useful. Hard balance to have.
@@harduphiker I struggle with the same problem when trying to put together a bug out bag. Its hard to find the right balance between weight, volume and having at least a bare minimum of stuff that covers most "realistic" scenarios.
I discovered one can fry in the Snowpeak Trek 900 Ti frying pan lid, IF: -cut the meat and vegetables small so they cook more easily -use low heat. Medium or High heat is WAY too hot for a Ti frying pan -use the cut off lid from a tin can as a heat diffuser under the pan, whether frying, or even cooking rice Even so, frying in titanium is always going to be something of a stunt. The larger Evernew titanium frying pan, I was never able to fry in well. I prefer to cook in seriously thick aluminum, or cast iron. But those are way too heavy for 99% of the backpacking I do in the Sierras. I also love the aluminum Trangia 25, but again, too heavy most of the time, for most of my trips.
I find my Fire Maple XK6 a good balance for most trips...but yes, Ti is so light. But....I find most of the dehydrated meals are bleugh, so it really depends on how light I want to go vs terrible food. Tempted by the new BRS Jetboil MiniMo type stove, though but not planning to go back to butane.
First vid I have watched of yours. Interesting. Subd, I will check out some more of your vids. I have been putting off titanium pots for years until just recently. I haven't tried them yet, but what you say makes perfect sense, because we use titanium clamps and trivets in jewellery making because titanium does not suck the heat away from the piece you are working on. Low thermal conductivity. Very good thank you. See you further down. All the best.
Glad you like, and good to have you on board! Next video is in progress, it will be either on stoves on headlamps...not sure. Partly depends on me making things and gear arriving for the former.
I replaced my titanium pot and pan for a Trangia T28 for the same reason, burnt food. As you say ghey are great for boiling water but anything else is a real faff. I also have a Zebra can, it's a tad heavy but worth it.
My favorite is hard anodized aluminum from gsi but they call theirs Halulite. I use it over stoves and open fire. Back in the 1970’s all of our group cook sets and boy scout mess kits were plain (uncoated or treated) aluminum.
I have an aluminum six inch pot and a coated frypan I got from trangia. I like alcohol for cooking so far. I've made pancakes already with the simmer ring. Everyone just boils these bags of freeze dried food. Not my thing.
I'd bet that if you took a blow torch to what you are calling a burn that you can't remove... it will change color, its just that titanium changes colors over time under high heat conditions, purples, blues, gold bronze. I actually have done that to some of my titanium ware because it looks really cool in my opinion.
Yes the sides - when they weren't covered in soot (as you'll see in the next video, wood stoves are MESSY), you could see that change. Oddly though, where I scratched the burnt food off is white, and has stayed white. Apparently that's the natural colour of titanium.
The firemaple heat exchanger pots are the best. I just bought a 1.5 liter one. To me it is best of both worlds, a boil pot, and wider to be a frying pan. Another plus is a little extra room to cook for a small group of 2-3 people.
As a dinosaur, i cook my bacon and eggs and bannock over a Firebox stove, in an old cold handle skillet. They were made from very thin carbon steel that becomes non stick with use. Cook over coals rather than flames. 👍
That sounds a lot like cast iron.Surprised how many people use cast iron in the comments! I'd have thought it was too heavy. Cast iron skillets are great, use them at home, they are the best to fry on.
Me too! Firebox and carbon steel, I sometimes use the canister insert since we have fire bans here. I love how things just slide off the carbon steel once properly seasoned and how well it cooks.
A little fact some people might not know: Aluminium is actually lighter than Titanium. You just require less of it when producing these pots or pans, hence they are lighter.
That is true, aluminium is lighter than titanium as a material - although the problem is you need more aluminium to make the same strength pot vs titanium, so titanium works out lighter because it's stronger so you need less of it. But in practice we are talking a few grams here, it's a pretty minor differencs.
Love the Sea To Summit folding stuff. For info. the folding bowl/plate and mug fits inside my Trangia T27, the cup fits inside my Jetfoil and the bowl/plate when partially expanded hugs the lid of my Trangia T28. I have a lovely titanium spork but this remains at home as I use the free wooden sporks left on the coffee counter at Waitrose. They also occasionally give you free coffee if you spend on a loyalty scheme but you need to provide your own cup- another reason to carry a Sea to Summit mug (fits in jeans back pocket)
Yeah I love my folding Sea to Summit cup...the insulation helps too. I'd carry wooden cutlery but I can't cook with it, hence now using Outlery, found the folding sporks tended to fold back during use. I find that at Waitrose you can often cadge free soy packets from the sushi counter.
I am glad that someone is telling the truth about titanium pots and pans. IN regards to your rmeark about using stainless steel because you can cook on an open fire.....Fifty years ago, I cooked in the U.S. government issue aluminum Mountain Cook Set over an open fire while backpacking in the California high Sierras.
@@harduphiker No. We built a trench fire and bridged it with a 3 bar grate, and then cooked over flames. This was on the Silver Knapsack Trail in the Sierras. The only wood available was pine and you cannot maintain good embers with that.
@@bubba7626 I have seen those, but yes, it also gets rather sooty, Just used the titanium pot on my wood stove (the next video, up soon!) and it gets VERY sooty.
@@harduphikerIf you pre-coat the outside of your pot with liquid dish detergent such as DAWN, before placing over a wood fueled fire, it makes soot removal ridiculously easy when cleaning!!!
I don't think anyone was buying titanium stuff becuase it cooks good. That is a well known drawback. Aluminum is also not great at cooking. Steel is better for cooking. It's all tradeoffs like everything in backpacking. None of them are "scams". For the record I usually carry steal pan and a titanium cup. For me, the extra weight for a steel cup is not really worth it, but the extra weight for a steel pan is worth it over titanium (and aluminum pan) for cooking. I worry about using non-stick stuff over a fire or very hot burner.
Yes I don't use non-stick, I used anodised aluminium...I know the trade offs, but it does feel that it's 'Titanium For ALL!' with the craze around Titanium...
For almost 30 years, I've used a long-discontinued Sigg Inoxal pot - aluminum outer bonded to stainless steel inner. The aluminum provides good heat transfer and the steel strength, durability and an excellent food surface. The all-steel lid is a bit oversized as it is intended to double as a frying pan (which it's not very good at). The 1-litre pot is a bit on the heavy side at around 260g. Back in the day, though, it was the best of all worlds.
There is a saying my father has always told me throughout my life: "A tool is only efficient as the user holding it." Titanium cookware is a tool, much like any other cookware. It has a specific style needed to cook with for it to be efficient. I tend to focus on moving the Ti pan around on the heat when using a "pocket rocket" like stove where the heat tends to be concentrated in one area. I do this even when they have liquids in them as well. I prefer Ti because it heats up quick, it cools down quick, it's easy to clean, it's lighter, it doesn't rust, which is perfect for the winter time and quick lunch breaks when you want to pack up right away and be on your way. In this case, I really like having a Ti wood stove for that reason exactly, is the fact it heats up quick and allows me to cook quicker, and it cools down quick and allows me to pack it up quicker. Going back to what my father has said, it's about experience, knowledge, and the ability to adapt to your circumstances. Thanks to him, I don't blame items because I misunderstand them, I blame myself because I might be using them improperly. Use a hammer for nails, and use the screw driver for the screws. Sure, a screw driver can hammer in a nail in a tight squeeze, but it's not designed to do that, and it will be difficult to do so, so just get the right tool for the right job and use it appropriately.
If you are melting aluminum cookware when you cook, your fire is way too hot. Cooking fires don't have to be very large or very hot for pots and pans type cooking. Literally burning twigs is sufficient for most things unless you are cooking a gallon of food in a cast iron dutch oven or roasting meat over a fire. Your cookware shouldn't melt or warp, even aluminum.
As I said in the video. I've never done open fire cooking, so it's not really my knowledge, but yes, I seem to dimly remember it's like BBQs - you cook on the coals/red embers. not the hot flames? I didn't get on with a wood stove when I was burning twigs though! It burnt far too fast....
I have the Evernew Titanium solo set (pot, mug, lid, tray) and I love it to bits. It's for boiling, simmering, and nothing else. And that's the way I want it. I have an ultralight BBQ for meats. But all I want from my pots is hot water for drinks, and to simmer up some rice, pasta or soup.
Which is great, but I think some of us want to cook. I'd argue simmering isn't really good with Ti either, since I was simmering risotto and still burnt it - I can do that with my alcohol stove and aluminiium pot if I don't stir it, but it's far more easier to burn it with Ti pots.
You can tell the quality of the titanium pretty easy. If it’s aluminum or part alloy 1. It’s more scratchable 2. You can impact dent it 3. Its uncoated colour will be a lot darker grey 4. It won’t rainbow colour after heating several times
Actually there is a non-stick titanium cookware! It's called Boundless Voyage Titanium Non-stick Frying Pan by Boundless Voyage Outdoors. Although I haven't tried it so I don't know if it's good or not. Maybe you can review it?
@@harduphiker I was thinking about cooking rice and putting it in a glorified tea bag of sorts. on account of attempting to stop any burning. I suppose using gel fuels might help as they don't give the heat of a gas stove. I've thought and of all sorts and experimented with concepts. But you know what, after all that I still prefer my trangia 1ltr pot over my titanium pots any day of the week. It does the job and cleaning it is easy as my hands can get right in there.
@@vespasian266 after I made this video I tried alcohol stoves with the same pot in the video, cos that's what I use now. Same problem - it's less, but you still get that 'hotspotting' and it still can burn! I think yes boil in the bag /sous vide cooking might get past that burn issue, @Tominthetent does this, he has a vacuum sealer and makes his own premade meals that way, and means no mess.
@@harduphiker have you looked at the Keith titanium rice cooker?. solves some problems. I did a version using a cup inside a pot to boil rice or veg. a diffuser of sorts.
After a long time of “hanging on the fence”, I’ve forked out for a Keith Titanium Rice Cooker, have to say, it’s brilliant! I finally got one after a year or more, because the price had come down to a tad under £80 from nearly £100. It cooks rice really, really well. It does rice cooking (I eat it at least 3 times, sometimes more a week, so I have got it down to a fine art) far better than I usually do it, which, when camping with lightweight pans, is not easy. Because it’s sort of like a double boiler/steamer, the rice can’t burn, but even better, you can do pilau rice, biryani type dishes or cous cous with meat and vegetables mixed in. I’ve been using it in my kitchen for my meals, so it’s not just a “one trick pony”. The most rice you can do is 280 grams, it’s meant to do for 4 people, but personally, I would say for 3 max or if you’re putting meat and veg in it as well, 2 portions on the small side- normally I have about 120 grams of rice for myself. You can also use the outer pot as a normal cooking pot and it has a 900ml capacity- that’s 900ml with an inch or two to spare! If you enjoy rice dishes, ai would say it’s actually worth getting, if it was, say £50, it would be absolutely worth it, I did notice on Keith’s Chinese site, it is very expensive on there also, priced in Yen, so it’s not a case of the price being hiked exponentially for the European or American market- forgot to say, I got it off Amazon and it came from USA in about 5 days, no extra charges.
Its Japanese, and uses better quality titanium. I've been sitting on the fence for a couple of years on it. I did try a two pot solution based on the design. one smaller titanium mug with rice and water and a larger pot that the smaller pot sits in.. put water both with the rice and between the two pots and place lid on larger pot. only tried it at home but it did do the job.
If someone thinks aluminum is a health risk and stainless steel is too heavy, then they could try "Duossal" pots from Trangia that combine the advantages of both materials (Duo-SS-AL): The outside of the pot is made of aluminum for weight reduction and heat distribution, and the inside is made of stainless steel for hardness against abrasion and food acids
I only use my tiratium mug/pot to boil water for coffee and dehydrated foods. If I need to cook I ise my Trangia. Hiking frying pans are always hit and miss though. The primus li tech pot is also good for boiling up food but is way heavier than the titanium mug and the frypan lid is tiny. Basically depends on what Im eating. That wee coffee thingy looks well handy. Im currently trying put some different coffee solutions. I never got a good brew from the bags.
Totally understand for the pan ! It’s made only for cocking so titanium it’s not a good idea. But I’m cocking sometimes in my Toaks 900ml, risotto, eggs, stirring ognon and carrot. You need some olive oil and some care but you can do it 👌
Yes I have done risotto and pasta many times in my tiny Lixada 750ml pot - which is really 500ml, cos 750ml is RIGHT to the top! Having now used the FIre Maple on a few trips, it's so much easier though. A lot less stressful, can just leave it and stir ir every once in a while on simmer, not stir like a maniac every 5 seconds on same!
@@susanp.collins7834 LOL missed that. I like a bit of cocking too! (in fact I've been there as well, it's a real place, walked from there in this video: ua-cam.com/video/FoEN9C24Pag/v-deo.html)
Hear, Hear! You are very right. Aluminum are better for cooking, and the little extra weight are not a problem. I believe the titanium thing is a gimmick for sale purpose, and many of us buy new titanumstuff to carry 300 g less in our backpack. Its kind of ridiculous because many of us weigh 5-10 kg to much i bodyfat. I have a steel twigoven (flatpack version) and it have its not pretty anymore after countless of hours of burning, but is as zero warping. Then I bought a titaniumversion and it warped after the second times, its still working but annying never the less, but it is not as "flatpacking" because of the warping.
Tool for the job, I totally agree. I've got Ali, Ti, Stainless and Cast iron. Depending on the camp, and how far I've got to carry the bl00dy stuff 😆 depends on the kit I bring. Hikes would be Ti, for the weight. Cast iron, I'd used for based camps. Horses for courses as they say.
You should try out something carbon steel, I added a carbon steel wok to the Basecamp box and I've been loving it because it's got a really long handle
I bought over 13 years ago out of curiosity two Trangia Titanium Pots, they were quiet affordable but discontinued probably for a reason. They are super light yes but they work/perform horribly, for heating up water OK but for cooking they suck like all Titanium cookware. I have as well a MSR Stainless Steel Set for more than 2 decades, some Hard Anodized Aluminium Primus Pots and a full Set of SIGG InoxAL Pots + Pan I bought 30 years ago. The InoxAL are by far the best I ever used thick black anodized Aluminium outside clad thin Stainless inside with Stainless Lids who are used as plates as well. They are not the lightest but also only weight a little bit more compare to the MSR and they work brilliant for serious cooking build like tanks, in this case I favor performance + quality over weight after 3 decades of experiments. The two things out of titanium I really love for over 2 decades and use all the time are a MSR Fork + Spoon.
Yes I have a titanium knife and spork I use. Titanium has it's place...I have a titanium woodstove and I've got a titanium windshield coming, that lack of thermal conductivity is useful there! Titanium does cool down really fast (but also means your food gets cold fast too - I forgot to mention that in the video)
@@harduphiker It works quiet well + is used to replaces steel parts from stoves of all types it save weight but it comes literally with costs, it's around 40% lighter than steel. I got an Markill Peak Ignition srew-on canister burner 15 years ago it's super light with it's Titanium pot support but actually I prefer my MSR Whisperlite International for the Bike Touring + Camping I do for 26 years.
Agree. I have a Titanium mug which is set up as an emergency brew kit which goes everywhere with me and that's it. I've used it twice. All the rest for camping is anodised alu, with the exception of a ss kettle in my Trangia 25 set. My wood stoves are ss. Titanium cookware isn't a scam; its just unnecessary, but will always have believers.
It sometimes has it's place, but I do feel still it's overhyped, when other things are better and cheaper...I even recently tried going back to my Ti pot. I still wasn't impressed, even with an alcohol stove.
most titanium cookware is an aluminum alloy. if it doesnt get that classic purple rainbow oxide, its probably not pure titanium. aluminum titanium alloy has okay thermal conductivity.
You are using a way too hot heat on your Ti pot. Ive been using my 750ml ti pot for years. I like to get the tins of curry or chicken in white sause for simple camping meals. You hardly need a flame and you need to constantly stur it, a long handled ti spoon is a must. I dont have a burnt bottom in my pot. Ive used the BRS3000T, soto windmaster and trangia. I find if you use the pots handle and hold it abouve the flame on less controlled flames is the best way to cook, not just leaving it on the stand to make a hot spot. Ive used alu, ss and ti pots. Ti i find best, then ss. I dont like ti frying pans. Something like the pathfinder or msr skellet i find best.
I mentioned constantly stirring the pot in the video....I prefer to not spend my life stirring manicly! And yes, I also talked about using a lower heat, hard with the MSR to get it to simmer as it still has a very localised heat and a small head. Having now used the aluminium pot for boiling water, it also doesn't go cold really quickly unlike Titanium...if you have to spend extra grams carrying a pot cosy or a heat diffuser, then it really negates the whole point and gram advantage. May as well take aluminium or stainless.
"and hold it abouve the flame on less controlled flames is the best way to cook" - that's fine if you're cooking something that takes a few minutes, but risotto/pasta? Are you going to hold it there for 10+ minutes? That's going to be painful for your arm! Reheating things or boiling water, Titanium is fine. For any actual cooking, no. Also the MSR skillet or the Pathfinder are rather expensive compared to the cheaper Chinese options, or just a small alu or stainless frying pan from a supermarket and cut off the handle....you really don't need anything special. That's 'hiking' premium for normal stuff! And what this channel is trying to avoid.
I'm not in to lightweight stuff and I've never owned titanium gear, because I don't see the point. Aluminium isn't good for your health, it leeches. You can get pretty cheap 304 stainless gear from Chinese merchants and they work fine. Also, your fire shouldn't be up that high for risotto. That was on you 🤪 I've heard (but never witnessed) that you can just heat your titanium really hard and it cleans off with a brush. As a side effect it turns all types of pretty colours. (not sure if this is true, or just salesmanship on part of a titanium pot owner)
"Also, your fire shouldn't be up that high for risotto. That was on you 🤪" - it wasn't entirely. You need to boil the water at first, so was very aware not to 'burn' it then, but I found getting the right simmer level with a MSR Pocket Rocket and a titanium pot is very hard. And if you're using an alcohol stove I suspect it's even harder to control the flame unless your burner has a simmer ring, and even then. Anyway LOTS of stirring! Pocket Rocket has a really harsh localised flame, exacerbating the low thermal conductivity problem - and simmering without it going out in wind is not an easy task! (I don't have a windshield currently). This wasn't my first time cooking risotto in that pot btw - I had problems with my old Camping Gaz burner as well, so I know it wasn't just the MSR. Add in the fact that the Lixada "750ml" pot is misleading - so meant to get a decent meal I had to fill it to the top so had to stir it very carefully, meant that it's easy to make it stick. And yes, the first thing I did to try and clean it was to boil up some water. It doesn't work, it was very strongly welded! I didn't mention it in the video I then also did pasta in it after, having learned the simmer level on the MSR and having to scratch off the rissoto burn! I still managed to make some of it stick again, not as bad, but I had to watch it like a hawk and stir constantly even on a really low setting. Made cooking more stressful. Titanium also leaches btw, Titanium Oxide. The jury is out on whether that is good for you (Europe just banned it as an additive), I'd avoid storing acidic foods in there. TL;DR - Titanium is not the best tool for the job, cooking in titanium should be restricted to boiling water really.
@@harduphiker fair enough. It sounds like your tools are overpowered for fine cooking. Given that risotto done well is hard enough on an actual stove, let alone on lightweight camping gear.
@@ericdpeerik3928 I do a mean risotto at home (gluten issues so I cook a lot of rice dishes). I don't think it's impossible, I did some good pasta and risotto dishes later in that trip, it's partly the pot and partly getting used to the simmering. I think the MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe and the Soto Windmaster are better for cooking actually (they have a regulator and finer controls), but usually beyond my price range. I am switching to alcohol stoves to see if the simmering works better. I suspect it will - more slower cooking, but maybe less stress? I really want something that's quieter and more ''leave it and do other stuff' than fervent stirring!
Hey! Beryllium is lighter than aluminum and stiffer. We should make cookware out of it. Nevermind that silly berylliosis toxicity and the brittleness. That's how you do engineering - focus on the one attribute you like and ignore all the problems. Go marketing!
Yes LOL. I don't think titanium is massively toxic, it's something to be aware of storing food in it or using it long term cos the oxide is a little questionable, but yes, totally agree there is a weird false dichotomy here of "light = might". I find it odd people telling me about how dangerous aluminium is in the comments (I do hope they never take indigestion cures, they have many times any dose they'd get from a cooking pan in them, magnesium as well SHOCKER!) when really it's minor, and has a massive research track record showing it's comparatively safe, the dementia research is unproven as yet (and many other possible triggers as well, neurology is complex) so jury is out for now. Unlike say PTFE which is a bit too forever-chemical for everyone's liking (and I never told anyone to use non-stick either! Didn't stop a few people saying I was poisoning the planet - oh the irony). People are allergic to nickel and chromium in steel as well, nothing is perfectly inert. Well gold and silver are, but not so great for cookware :-P
You are not mentioning the fact that. all the alu pans tend to have non stick coatings, which all eventually wear off and u consume it,and its carcinogenic. so i tend to use Ti and stainless stuff and avoid them,, good summary tho cheers
The Fire Maple pot I showed in the video isn't non-stick, it's anodised. I don't know about the cheap Chinese pans I got, it looks more like anodised than non-stick. I'd have to check. If you're worried about PTFE (non-stick) coming off, then you should worry more about titanium oxides which come off titanium. Europe have just banned them....UK FSA disagrees, the jury is out on their safety. So it's possible to use aluminium safely, the risks of dementia study was proven to be wrong. Titanium is actually officially toxic (I use Ti and Zinc oxides in my paints, like Cadmium you need to avoid accidentally consuming them) , but the oxidisation layer protects you...but similar to PTFE, make sure you don't scratch that layer off during cooking!
Even Stainless Steel has it's risks if minor - see this www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/household-products/safe-use-cookware.html#st cos it contains nickel and chromium. As always, it's about moderation and realising these metals are everywhere, even in the food we eat (and in the case of PTFE and Titanium, maybe use wooden/plastic cultery). I personally think the risk of PTFE is a bit like aluminium was a decades ago, overstated and via a few small research papers. You really have to consume a lot to have a major issue, and the substance that was the problem PFOA has been banned (although yes, whether China banned it I don't know). But I'd not use them over an open fire, Teflon/PTFE releases poisonous gases over 350-500C.
@@harduphiker some are hard anodised..and then have a non stick coating applied after ,some dont,, bit of a rabbit hole once u dive in... as ive just found out.. and some of the aluminium is rendered inate bey the anodising process....lol ,cheers... but it is a quagmire to figure out ATB good work on the vid
Thanks! And yes I agree, I've been researching cookware for a long time to find the best stuff and just getting info on exactly what stuff weighs or how fireproof the handles is hard enough, let alone what it's made out of!
Went through the Ti phase and have returned to hard anodised (no non stick coating) way better for cooking a meal. I have two Widesea heat exchanger hard anodised pots one large one small, have found them to be excellent pots and the larger one has a lid that can be used as frying pan, smaller one has a lid more like a cup.
The cost of titanium is a joke. When the USSR fell, titanium flooded the market. The metal was no longer being used in huge quantities by their military. So one of the best (next to diamonds of various colors) marketing campaigns ever convinced people titanium was the way to go for everything made of metal, wedding bands, camping gear, bikes, you name it. Titanium for hiking is bragging rights for who can put together the lightest set of gear for hiking. The usual bougie mindset.
Pure aluminium melts at 660C, but the alloys go far higher & they're unlikely to ever melt on your stove. I go for heat exchanger pots every time & a folding windbreak too. If you want to cook properly, try cast iron,.... but not on long hikes !
Jup aluminium is better on a burner. Often the extreme ul backpackers shoot em self in the foot for a gram. Say a backpack 50+ litres whitout hip belt at 800g instead of an Osprey Exos pro at 1000g with a great carry system.
Say it louder for those at the back! Yes, I don't get the idea of taking things that don't work well, or barely work cos they are light. It's making ultralight a bit of a mockery when people do that...it's not a bad idea, but it does seem people take it to extremes.
I’ve an MSR XGK EX stove. I’d need 20 layers of space shuttle tiles and a concrete pot to prevent food burning! It’s like an afterburner on a jet fighter. It burns water 😂
Titanium pots aren't really a scam per say but the user MUST KNOW that this metal isn't known to be a good heat conductor hence why it's used in Fighter jet exhaust systems because it cools down really quickly so forget using it for a frying pan because pretty much everything you fry on it WILL STICK guaranteed regardless if how carefully you "seasoned" this cooking utensil!
Exactly. And also I've seen people carry pot cosys for their Titanium pots to reduce that rapid cooling...so extra weight, along with some carry diffusers to solve the heat spread issue! I bet if you weighed all that, and an aluminium pot, they'd weigh the same. It's funny how people go for 'ultralight' and then get all this gear to counter the issues with the UL expensive thing, when they could just go a few grams more or the same and carry the thing that works properly AND is cheaper. Own goal. In that way I do feel it is a scam because you're not actually saving weight, and it gets a bit culty/obsessive and there is a capitalistic push to (re)buy new lighter things. UL is great as a starting point as long as you still take things that are functional for the uses you need it for. Yet I feel a lot of UL is exactly the gram-shaving toothbrush-handle stereotype that is mocked!
yes it is "Ultra Light" and it is designed to be used by Hikers who stay on the trail for several days, weeks and months at a time. and those Hikers will carry foods similar to MRE's, where they only need to boil water to heat and prepare meals, teas and coffee. they are not made for frying Fish or cooking Beef stew. Same with the Stainless Steel hiking cook kits, they don't handle the heat very well and they burn the pans easy.
"Hikers who stay on the trail for several days, weeks and months at a time." - I have been hiking and camping for as much as 3 weeks at a stretch? Does that count? And I still found titanium a pain. Also those MREs or the hiking alternative - real military MREs are super heavy cos they have the ability to self-heat, or are meant for hexi stoves with a canteen usually... are a nightmare for those of us with allergies. Can't eat most of them cos gluten or other things I can't eat. The lighter hiker versions are super expensive, and they all are usually full of salt, sugar and sometimes fat. Really doubful of the health of those things. Empty calories. Real food, real cooking. I mean taking some pasta and noodles and risotto packets (not MREs) isn't exactly hard, and is cheaper, and as light? But that means taking cookware that you can actually COOK with. Also, talking MREs - the military camp canteens and military cookware is usually stainless or sometimes aluminium. Pretty sure they never use titanium, unless something has changed recently.
I've cooked an assortment of foods in my TI cookware, i've found that it helps to constanty stir, use oil or butter, and to use wind screens to keep the stove flame relatively stable.
Titanium is for a water boiler and thats about it. Fantasic for that. If your really cooking than aluminum clad stainless and good old carbon steel reign supreme.
Yes I went back to my Titanium pot for a recent short trip and...it's SO slow! My alu heat converter pot is way faster, and uses less fuel, despite being larger.
I have tried and dont like Titanium - it gives food a metal taste often to me. And I dont like aluminium due to its possible link to dementia. So stainless steel is for me! Not that heavy for what I use and I can even pop it into the dishwasher if I am really desperate!
The dementia research is a bit of possible red-herring - interestingly it's as much iron, copper and zinc, so copper pans, cast iron and stainless is out, cos guess what's in stainless steel (zinc is often added, iron obviously, along with nickel and chromium) www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/risk-factors-and-prevention/metals-and-dementia "Since this study was reported, much research has been done on the relationship of aluminium and Alzheimer's disease. As yet no study or group of studies has been able to confirm that aluminium is involved in the development of Alzheimer's disease." I really side-eye these scary reports as being possible junk science, they know that really high levels of metals can cause dementia, but even weirdly with natural occuring metals as well, and normal brains have those levels as well, so how that means Alzheimers starts in some is not proven - because it was just metals, those other people with the same levels of metals in the brain should also develop dementia? But they don't.
All things being equal, ie; material thickness and pot dimensions, titanium is heavier than aluminum. That means, if cooking food items in your pan, a thicker aluminum will serve you better than titanium. Aluminum diffuses the heat much better............. Thanks for sharing.
Titanium's advantages over aluminum are strength and high temperature tolerance. My pots don't have to be all that strong. I've had the same set of Evernew aluminum pots for 40 years, so I suspect they are strong enough. Neither are they burnt through anywhere. So then you're left with the facts that aluminum has better heat conductivity and lower density than titanium. Are the titanium pots really that much lighter? That means they are very thin, otherwise the aluminum pots would be lighter. So the design concept is to run THINNER walls on the poor conductivity metal? Are they TRYING to burn your food? Really? It just doesn't pass the engineering sniff test. That's why the only titanium I've got is a spork and even that is only marginally better than properly hardened aluminum. I have to admit that my Esbit Triangle stove stand would be a little better in titanium than the current stainless steel. Easton could be making kick-ass titanium tent poles. MSR Groundhog stakes in hardened titanium too. Why aren't they using titanium where it really shines instead of being weirdly focused on cookware?
it is a strange one - I think it's the classic groupthink of 'Titanium = lighter = better'. Not always... It has it's place. I wish I'd gotten a titanium pot stand...I made my own from a coathanger cos I'm poor - but I wish it wasn't steel for one reason - rust. It's starting to rust a bit getting wet in the pot/rain, but I guess I could just make a new one? As an engineers son, I am also rather sceptical about the tensile/torsion strength of titanium, I think compared to carbon or steel it flexes and bends, great for pots (bar the thermal conductivity) - less great for tent pegs or poles. I think that's why things like those titanium version of the Delta Anchors exist (the forces there being different, if plastic is fine then titanium would be too)_, but not so much traditional tent pegs or poles because I don't think titanium is great on bending forces.
Just trying to sort out what will work for me. I might yet get a 400ml titanium mug just for hot drinks and maybe instant noodles, but I ruled out titanium for cooking from the outset At the moment a supermarket budget non-stick 8" aluminium frying pan (288g minus handle) and/or a 1.1 litre stainless steel pot (204g), give a decent choice of menu. Of course, copper, gold and particularly silver are better thermoconductors, but unlikely to feature in my cook set for the foreseeable.🥴
LOL yes, although copper is quite heavy I think, but those are very expensive! I'm sure someone in future will try and make a super-ultralight pot with one of those ;-) The literal 'pot of gold'... Titanium is great if you are just boiling water, it's very light, fast (if very localised) heat and cools down really fast. I'd recommend if for that. But for cooking I think it's a bad choice - especially frying, I had a cooked steak with one burnt bit, wasn't very nice.
After having bought A LOT of cookware (normal and camping gear) i settled for 2 smaller high end stainless sandwich steel pots, a mid sized cast iron pan and a big enamel cast iron pot. Thats all i need as a single. For camping i prefer a 1L stainless steel pot and (if needed) a small handforged carbon steel pan. For my bug out bags i went for a 750ml titanium cup/pot with a lid since you probably only need it to boil water. At least one water bottle is made from titanium too. I noticed that the Klean Kanteen 1L widemouth is quite light with only a bit over 200g and not really heavier than the titanium ones.
@@grayssoncarl5020 I guess could match that set too, but at just under 7kg for the lighter options and about 9.5kg for the better stuff I'd need a bit more than a couple of Weetabix to lug it further than bottom of my garden. Respect! 👍
@@typo4000 I started to do my shopping on foot using a medium Alice backpack which has around 15kg fully stuffed including the backpack itself. I dont have to carry it far (like a 10min walk) but i have no problems with that so i hope that a bugout bag with that weight (or less) would be manageble. I tried the large Alice i but would stuff it too much and then it would hurt on my lower back and the risk that i get in pain from my knees/hip starts getting up. I just hope that i dont have to ever use my bug out bag since i dont harbour any romantic thoughts about bugging out into woods at my age and health. But better have it than need it.
@grayssoncarl5020 I'm of an age where I'm getting increasingly conscious of the weight versus distance equation, and naturally, season and terrain need to be factored in as well. There is also the exponential costs of weight saving to consider, the calorific burn per mile, again adjusted for terrain, and so on. By the time I've done all the math I'm usually too exhausted to leave the house. 😔 I like to cover a lot of miles, carry as little as possible, have a decent meal at the end, and do it all on a shoestring budget. Just haven't figured out how to do it yet. Isn't that part of the fun. Take care!
Thanks for the video, those are great points. Sometimes when packing for a trip you just go for the lightest cook kit possible without considering whether it's compatible with the type of food you're bringing. I do mostly multi-day treks, and I carry all my food. Obviously I favor dehydrated/freeze-dried meals which just require boiled water. So 9 out of 10 times I'll pack one of my titanium sets. Occasionally I'll do an overnighter with the wife so we can take a heavier kit if we're going to be frying, cooking and simmering stuff. About the Brew Buddy, that's an amazing little gadget if you're into coffee. I prefer it over the GSI Java Drip because the coffee stays in contact with the water much longer, whereas with the Drip the water just passes through very quickly. The Java Drip is a little lighter, but it has those awkward legs that clip to the edge of the cup which can be tricky to detach when the cup is full. Great video!
My apologies perhaps I should of translated the quote to modern tongue instead of direct extract. It means you should not pursue the taste in food but its nourishing capabilities. I totally agree that people should avoid those types of foods you mentioned. When I say 'hardening yourself' is understanding that you comprimise menu variety when going lightweight cook kit options or you comprimise weight to have a greater menu variety. Personally food is fuel to me and I only seek to maximise nourishment and make the meal palatable only. In my previous messages I suggested a means of dealing with the heat distribution on titanium pots. There are videos on titanium heat distribution.
All good valid points there, a bit of oil goes a long way though if cooking meat. Yeah you do need to keep it not too close to a flame though, for fire the higher melting point I prefer. If it does get really dirty I've found you can burnt off using a gas flame. You didn't mention cast iron 🤣
IIRC a lot of aluminum pans are Teflon nonstick. I usually stick to stainless steel or titanium pots. I don't really do much more than boil or rehydrate food on the trail.
None of the alu pots I have are non-stick, I avoid PTFE for obvious reasons, forever chemical, etc. And it does just fall off eventually...not good. All the pots I have are anodised aluminium.
@@harduphiker That's good, and a major reason I avoid aluminum. I only have one aluminum pot is a 2L MSR I've used for melting snow. Alu is getting better, I still tend to use carbon steel for frying pans though.
I like titamium, anodized aluminum, and stainless steel. Titanium and stainless steel gets those burn marks on the bottom even when it's full of water. The coloration does not cause any problems. With backpacking, the light weight anodized aluminum cooking gear, the anodized coating wears out after awhile. I found with the fry pans of all of the materals seasoning really helps. All of the non-stick coatings wear out quickly. I say go with your pocket book. Car camping you can use your seasoned carbon steel fry pans. With backpacking weight is your enemy. I go with titanium pots and the 8 inch Banks fry/bake pan, so I can boil, bake and fry. I love my bread, fish, desserts, and pizzas. If I had only one piece of cookware it would be my fry/bake, the anodized aluminum is high quality. I've had my Banks fry/bake for twenty years and it looks like it will last forever (knock on wood). I love cooking outdoors with gas, liquid and wood (my favorite).
Funny after I made this, I found my large stainless pot in storage, might start using it again, it's a bit massive though (1.5L?) for one person! The Banks looks great. I am having a lot of fun with the anodised Fire Maple, it has to be said, it's perfect for what I wanted so far, something that was larger than my tiny Lixada pot - too small for cooking really, and works with alcohol burners and conserves heat with the heat ring. In fact if anything it's a little TOO efficient, found it boiling away even with a simmer ring!
Hmm. Seems more of a skill issue. Don't use a blow torch to cook on tin can thick materials and expect *not* to burn stuff. Seems pretty straightforward. Btw, if you're familiar with cooking at all, you can over-easy eggs in those lil titanium skillet lids with little trouble and hardly more cleanup than wiping the warm bacon sweat out of them when you're done. You'll never do it by putting the skillet over a blow torch tho. Not once, ever.
Though NOT a backpacker, I've always believed titanium is highly overrated - mainly by the "blow your own horn" crowd. Hard-anodised aluminum is almost as light and tough as titainium, but far better conductivity and much less costly. And it is inherently somewhat non-stick.
When using stoves with a high btu count as you know you get hotspots. However with a diy diffuser say one made from a food tin lid with bolts creating a gap between the bottom of the pot and the diffuser you avoid direct flame contact. With these materials you create a light weight option of diffuser as opposed commercially bought ones. Failing that you can use the frying pan component of a cook kit as double boil providing it has an equal to or smaller circumference to the pot. This regulates the temperature of the cooking to not exceed 100 degrees celcius. Aluminium leaches metallics into your food when cooking acidic food. Failing that accept that there are limitations when going lighter, harden yourself and "do not pursue the taste of good food".
@@boltaction001 "do not pursue the taste of good food". - problem is, that means people eat junk food, empty calories, which gives them sugar crashes and caffeine/fat highs and lows. Most 'trail food' is really bad for you. Those dehydrated meals contain too much sugar, salt or sometimes fat, and don't get me started on chocolate bars, sorry 'protein bars'... 'Hardening yourself' should not mean making yourself ill with bad food. Good food is not actually a luxury, if you want to have sustainable energy and health. Also aluminium if anodised doesn't leech anything unless you scratch it, and tbh it's overstated. Weird people focus on that and not that titanium is actually more toxic, or that stainless has chrome and nickel in it (and for some iron poisoning/allergy is a thing)
Try a different stove, like trangia, alcohol or gas. Or something more controllable. Or different pots, stainless steel, cast iron, steel or alumi num.
The latter is basically what I say in the video? I now use a Fire Maple alu pot, and a alcohol stove - given the Speedster - which I talk about in another video - is so fierce unless on simmer, I think that wouldn't help here.
Wait a minute, it is not just about titanium pot but you should reconsider the stove too. Flame pattern is important. During most of my hikes I use Vargo Hexagon wood stove, in some cases alcohol burner and if I use gas stove then the key is to use very small flame and it is important to use a stove with wide burner. Give it a try...
I did because my original stove was the wider head yet not ultralight Camping Gaz Bleuet (going to talk about this in the next video I am editing on my old gear) - still had this problem. And as you can see from my stoves video, I use to use a Tentock/TOAKS Wood stove.... ua-cam.com/video/HKexLGgTLZI/v-deo.html and still had the same food sticking/burning problem. Not tried the titanium with the 50ml Speedster yet, but twice bitten....
Most of my cookware in cast iron small fry pans,revere ware( copper bottom,or heat exchanged pans.If weight slows you down,whats the hurry? Its a hike,not a speed trial! Tis times bane when the blind are led by fools.🤠🇺🇲
Nice Ramble Rant!!!😂 As just a thought provoking question, I wonder if you used a copper plate, say 2mm thick or so to put under your titanium pot to act as a heat spreader??? Copper is used in serious computer cpu thermal waterblocks and heat sinks due to its thermal conductivity which is the next best to silver. I bet the copper would allow for more even heating!!!...which also brings to mind my mom used to have copper clad stainless steel pots & pans. The brand name was "Revere Ware".
If you have all three set up the same TI/SS/AL ,The SS will come to boil the fastest ,saving fuel .Though on a big trip I would still choose Ti over the others .
Since "Awatt" asked me for peer reviewed research supporting "the claim that aluminium is in someway harmful" but my reply to his comment won't stick. I'm posting it here instead. From, "What is the risk of aluminium as a neurotoxin?" by Christopher Exley in Expert Review of Neurotherapeutics, Volume 14, 2014 - Issue 6. "The neurotoxicity of aluminium has been demonstrated in humans, animal models and in tissue and cell culture Citation[1]. While aluminium’s neurotoxicity is incontrovertible, it is much more difficult to understand the risk that this neurotoxin poses to human health. Aluminium is neurotoxic because it possesses an extensive biochemical toolkit and because neurons are predisposed by their longevity toward its intracellular accumulation up to and beyond toxic thresholds Citation[2]. Aluminium is neurotoxic as the establishment of toxicity thresholds can result in neuronal dysfunction, neurodegeneration and ultimately neuronal cell death through a continuum of disruptive events from classical apoptosis through to sudden and violent necrosis Citation[3]. "
I get that...but in practice no link has been found between say, dementia or alzheimers or effects on the brain caused by aluminium. All the major Dementia and Alzheimers charities have info pages saying that aluminium is fine in the small doses we get - in fact aluminium like zinc and chrome is naturally occuring.
@@harduphikerI'm not sure this is a real issue. I was gifted a Magnalite aluminum pot back in 1971, and have used it since for preparing spaghetti sauces, pizza sauces, curries, and a multitude of other foods without any difficulties, no etching and no health problems. But I did experience great cooking on both electric and gas stovetops. And I've use a lightweight aluminum pot on the trail since about 1980, replacing a series of tin can billy that rusted out yearly over fires and backpacking stoves (Svea 123, MSR Whisperlite, MSR Pocketrocket, etc.).
@@memathews yes I mock the scare attitude to aluminium in the new video - not saying this commenter is like that, but had to hide a few people who are pushing a chemtrails line on aluminium. As a friend pointed out, aren't foil hats also aluminium? ;-)
We think more expensive is always better. In the outdoor gear world, it’s often true (even if the improvements are minimal), but it’s not the case here. Great video and honest information. The only situation where titanium is genuinely the best is cooking with fire - aluminum could melt so you’d be forced to use SS which is far heavier, and so titanium would be lighter. It would also be easier to clean and sanitize as shown by lonewolf 902. In this case, it is the best material. That’s why I might still order a titanium billy pot and grill. Though with their prices, I have been posting the decision. Im still somewhat conflicted between the Widesea 1.3/1.9L billy pots, and the Tatonka billy pot 1.6L. Tatonka’s size is better, and it comes with a pan. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Hmm I've seen those, I wonder if they are actually titanium because one of the benefits of Titanium is nothing really bonds to it cos of the oxide (apart from risotto apparently!)
@@harduphiker risotto (and everything else, really) sticks to the bottom of the titanium cookware because of the thinness more than anything else. Anthony Bourdain said it, cookware needs to be heavy enough to disable a burglar with one stike.
I bought my very first Titanium set which was the Boundless Voyage Canteen set-with no canteen of course, and in my testing under the car port it has a sticking problem even with water and a couple of hot dogs...STRANGE!
Titanium for low weight and boiling water. Aluminum good weight and heat transfer and better cooking performance. SSteel for durability. That's about it....
I do, and I've hiked 100s of trail miles this year (535 miles and counting, longest ones are tied at 170 miles each) and took risotto, noodles and pasta. Those dehydrated expensive readymeals are chewy and awful....tried them on my Scotland trip, regretted it. I'd rather take a bit more fuel and slighlly more weight - hardly any more if you weigh a Gallo risotto pack vs a Firepot meal, it's very similar - simmer mode on alcohol stoves and pre-soaking means you use not much more fuel tbh. I'd rather make pasta, noodles or risotto than that shit.
Good video! Nice to see British opinions on camping gear as our hiking and camping differs so much from those over the pond, Keep it up
Thank you - that's the idea, I watch a lot of US-based hikers, good info but sadly most of the gear is too expensive for here, or impossible to get.
Nice video, I have stainless steel and aluminum camping cookware. I agree with your analysis of titanium not being worth the price with aluminum being much less expensive and not that much heavier. Thanks for the video.
I don't really see this as a "scam." Most people who get titanium know that they are only for either boiling water, and are also going really like with dehydrated foods, whether freeze dried backpacking meals or Knorr rice sides etc.
Exactly.
Titanium pans specifically for cooking are kinda scammy. They don't explain the downsides.
Don’t trust a guy who puts pink shrink wrap on his cup handles. Titanium boils water quick and cools off quick without giving you Alzheimer’s like aluminum.
Trying to justify the attitude? So your lightweight gears forces you to carry more weight so you can COOK?
I own still some aluminium containers but don't use them any more for cooking purposes, instead I'm using stainless steel since decades and titanium since many years, and I don't have any problems whiles cooking. The thing is, I use either small wood stoves or ethanol burners, and every once in a while I use good old Esbit/Hexamine tablets as fuel, but never use gas again. IMHO, it is less the pot material but more the stove which creates problems when cooking outdoors.
These modern standard outdoor gas stoves are totally great for getting very fast your water boiling, but they act similar to bunsen burners and heat up only a small spot of the cookware, and even worse, they burn all too hot, what makes them great for modern style of dehydrated meal cooking i.e. heating up water, but makes them at the same time almost completely useless for any other/normal cooking. You can use heat diffusors or try it with aluminium or copper or even iron pots and pans, but you will always have somewhere a hot spot and won't get even heat distribution whatever you try with those stoves.
Also most of the commercial wood stoves are nowadays completely over dimensioned - as the size of the combustion chamber is usually too big they are misleading the users to burn too much of wood in order to have a 'nice' fire, what results in extreme heat which is usually too much for common cooking purposes, and some of these stoves are even increasing the heat by adding extra oxygen (with the help of a little fan, or since the construction principle of a rocket stove creates that heat). You could start a blacksmith business with those stoves, but for cooking ... well, why would you heat up your fire sooo much?
At home, nobody would ever cook at the highest level the kitchen stove can offer, except maybe for heating up water (in case you don't have a kettle). Usually we use at home small or medium heat for cooking, nobody puts bacon and eggs on highest flame because every kid knows it would burn in. That is simply common sense and has nothing to do with the pans or pots we use.
But it seems, in the outdoors, everybody wants to have the highest heat possible, and fires up a bottle of gas or half a forest in order to get something done ... and I'm not sure whether almost everybody nowadays uses dehydrated meals and uses stoves in the outdoors just for boiling water, or whether it has to do with the fact that most reviews and comparisions of stoves you find on youtube just measure how fast one can boil a certain quantity of water. What might be a certain standard to prove that a stove in fact emitts some heat, but has basically nothing to do with cooking.
If one uses the right amount of heat, and the right technique (e.g. adding a little bit of oil or water etc.), any pot or pan can do it.
I certainly simmer things, and find it really tricky on gas stoves, as you say their heat is too localised, too strong, too quick, even on lower power. Hence why since making this video I've been expeimenting with alcohol stoves, which seem far better at this stuff, and you can simmer them. Sure, a stove and caldera cone can get water boiled quickly - in a few minutes, but I like the flexibility of letting something simmer like I would at home, for longer.
@@harduphiker Since a couple of years I challenge myself to reduce the amount of wood I need for cooking. I find it really interesting to experiment in that direction and I'm often astonished with what small amounts of wood one can properly cook. I think this is not only key for a satisfying cooking experience but also good for the environment.
@@bangalorebobbel yeah I struggled with that, even my smaller wood gas stove (as displayed in my recent video on stoves) burns WAY to fast. Not sure why, and the Biolite is like that too. It's why I shifted to alcohol as a sort of middle ground, slower but more steady?
@@harduphiker yes woodgas stoves are almost uncontrollable. At least for me, I never could master the gas output in terms of more or less gas. Either it works or not, it is just a very binary fire.
And biolite is like having a blacksmith's forge - you add purposely a lot more oxygen to your fire as required for a normal burn and get automatically a hotter flame. For boiling water that is nice, you have a jet boil, but for cooking a nice meal just nonsensical.
Over the years I found most modern stoves I tried highly overheating if you want to use them for cooking. The burning chamber is usually too big - so if you put less wood inside, it doesn't burn nicely since the chimney effect is not working. And if you put enough wood inside to feed the fire that it burns steadily, it becomes too hot.
I experimented a lot with different sized commercial stoves and also self made stoves of all kind, and found best results when I used the smallest ones. (There is a video on my channel from a couple of years back, titled rice cooking challenge (or something like that), where I used a very small kind of IKEA stove. That size is totally enough for most cooking purposes, but 99% of all commercial stoves are bigger, many even much bigger.)
Alcohol stoves can often be better controlled - but you have to carry the alcohol with you. And not to forget the costs - wood is usually for free, alcohol has its price ...
Also Esbit/Hexamine stoves can be easily controlled. You can add tablets or split the tablets, you can put them upright in order to get more surface burning or lay them flat in order to get a lower flame, you can also add wood or any other burning stuff, and so on. But you should not use these stoves indoors or in your tent, since the hexamine fumes can be toxic, and especially if you use aluminium pots, you waste sometimes a lot of time with cleaning your pots ...
A tip for those who already invested in the titanium gear: to improve the spreading of heat over the entire surface, make sure you have a liquid base: baking butter, oil or water. Even when making a rizotto, add a spoonful of water and a spoonful of oil and stir like you never stirred before. The liquid will carry the heat better than the titanium since it will flow, and it will also transfer the heat faster into your food, preventing the highest temperatures in the metal. Of course, when hiking you don't want to be hauling too much extra. In my experience, having that bit of extra luxury weight increases the quality of your meal dramatically and certainly is worth it.
That is what I did - didn't add the oil, but stirred like crazy with plenty of water, every time...still stuck and burned to the bottom. Aluminium hasn't done this at all.
I don't think the few extra grams is luxury really, more necessity when your food burns, but if you heat only water then titanium is fine.
Then you're likely using expensive ready made ultra-processed food with usually non-reusable packaging. YMMV but to me, your health and not ruining the planet isn't a luxury...
@@harduphiker I agree. But usually the ones who get the pricey stuff for weight reduction, do get indeed the MRE (that only need to be heated in water anyway, for which the titanium is good, as you indicated) and don't care about the planet one bit, only about their personal bragging rights.
I'm not sure how my mileage will be impacted, tho? =))
If not ruining the planet is high on the agenda, I'd say make do with what you have, and when there's an option to not have, then don't have. That's what I do every day :))
@@lukearts2954 yes I do that, although obviously if the gear isn't doing the job, it's fine to use something else. But it's why my gear reviews are going to get less and more of an ongoing 'field test' because if it works, then I don't need anything else. Also I think the whole 'hey I have this new shiny thing' and then you don't see it next week is not good. I want to see stuff being used over time, that's more valuable than one video (and indeed this aluminium pot, and even the titanium pot have appeared in many videos and will continue to, with ongoing review with the Fire Maple, like when the Fire Maple lid melted....otherwise love it)
As a hiker and now bicycle tourist. Its Stainless steel, all the way. Zebra Billie Pots are the greatest.
I've accumulated a shockingly large collection of camping pots, pans, canteens and cups. I switched back to stainless steel if I'm going out for more than one night solely because I can use it on an open fire if needed
Exactly the same for me. And for the same reason. But more durability too.
@@Two_Names yes, if I was doing camp fires, and that sort of thing I'd choose stainless...but my first pot was SO heavy...hence why I went to titanium without really researching it. I always wondered why people were cooking with aluminium or stainless...I now know!
Exactly!
For the price different, you can have average bistro lunch!
The cheap Chinese ones have a self destruction option!
I hope not, but we'll find out! I will report back if the cheaper Chinese stuff fails....
Titanium can't be used on a fire?
I tried to cook an egg in titanium at home after getting a Snow Peak set. Egg burned terribly and pot was very very difficult to clean. I learned the limitations of titanium there that it works for boiling water and that's about it.
Yes it's really water and not much else. Even going back to it earlier this year I was surprised how bad it was at cooking even slowly on an alcohol stove.
Nice honest video. Since I only carry one pot, I don't mind going with the lightest stainless steel I've found.
Thank you.
I get around burning food by using less heat. Works for me with aluminium, ti and stainless. I use what is possibly the simplest home made alcohol stoves. Works for me but I've got a lot of flak for suggesting it.
I recently picked up a set of ex military mess tins and found that they cook a lot better than the cheap copies probably due to the original ones being a lot thicker.
I agree with you, I do a lot of cooking with a Speedster stove and a simmer ring. I still get a little sticking - like my noodles on Saturday during the Peak District Collab - but nothing welds itself like my Titanium pot.
@@harduphiker
Could that be because titanium is anodised? The anodising process doesn't add colour as such but makes lots of very small holes that scatter light. Maybe polishing the surface would help?
@@EpicureanHikers could be - I am going to use it again for the first time since this video on a project where I need to be light as possible, so I'll see how that goes. I don't think the Ti is anodised, but could have been, certainly the bottom isn't now cos I had to scratch the burnt stuff off, hence the 'white powder' which apparently was Ti Oxide.
Great! You confirmed all my fears about titanium. I am not sold on titanium. No need to try it myself now. Anyway the price is crazy for a metal that may not be genuine titanium. Particularly out if China.
I suspect they might be alloys, maybe with zinc (which although far from super poisonous cos again it oxidises, not totally a good idea especially with acidic foods). Hence the white powder when I scratched my titanium pot.
China is the largest producer of titanium in the world
Stainless has almost the same poor heat transfer as titanium. You can use a heat defuser.
What would a heat defuser be?
I use a diffuser with a titanium pan and it works great. The diffuser also acts as a grill plate and so it is worth the weight.
Where did you buy the diffuser please?
I am confused by this - you're not the only one commenting about using a diffuser here.
But surely a diffuser + Titanium pot destroys any weight advantage? You may as well use aluminium or stainless.
The diffuser can also act as a grill to put things on and so it has a duel purpose
Some good points. Titanium is a good solution for a light-weight water boiler, but cooking proteins or carbohydrates will prove troublesome in thin titanium or thin stainless. Neither metal spreads the heat laterally well enough. On all but the largest burners, you get one smaller, super-hot, spot. That's less of a problem with a really wide burner or a bed of coals. Some camp pans made of stainless steel will have clad bottoms ( 2 layers of steel that sandwich a layer of aluminum between), and that works better.
I rewarm premade rice (Uncle Bens) on ti. The trick is to put quite a bit of water int, enough to coat the bottom of the pot and a bit. That stops hotspotting, the water quickly boils then steams up. By that time the food is usually done. My protiens are either salami died in (no cooking required) or I have a separate BBQ.
I haven't done the science but it seems to me one will carry an additional weight of fuel to overcome the conductivity resistant titanium. Titanium is used in rocket fairings and high speed aircraft because it is more resistant to heating in the friction of air that would soften other metals.
I hadn't thought of that, but yes, that is a point that to warm up your food and keep it warm, you need more fuel to offset the rapid cooling of titanium.
I still use stainless steel. I generally don't care about weight. I take a minimum of best available equipment and just hike.
That is indeed proper (ultra)light hiking, not expensive gear, just take the bare minimum. I am trying to do a combo of both, reduce weight where it's useful. Hard balance to have.
My mantra is if my stainless gear is a few pounds too heavy, then I need to drop a few pounds of body weight to even things out. Works great !
@@harduphiker I struggle with the same problem when trying to put together a bug out bag. Its hard to find the right balance between weight, volume and having at least a bare minimum of stuff that covers most "realistic" scenarios.
@@raymondparker184Just remember that muscle is more dense and weighs more than fat for equal volumes!!!😂
I discovered one can fry in the Snowpeak Trek 900 Ti frying pan lid, IF:
-cut the meat and vegetables small so they cook more easily
-use low heat. Medium or High heat is WAY too hot for a Ti frying pan
-use the cut off lid from a tin can as a heat diffuser under the pan, whether frying, or even cooking rice
Even so, frying in titanium is always going to be something of a stunt.
The larger Evernew titanium frying pan, I was never able to fry in well.
I prefer to cook in seriously thick aluminum, or cast iron. But those are way too heavy for 99% of the backpacking I do in the Sierras. I also love the aluminum Trangia 25, but again, too heavy most of the time, for most of my trips.
I find my Fire Maple XK6 a good balance for most trips...but yes, Ti is so light. But....I find most of the dehydrated meals are bleugh, so it really depends on how light I want to go vs terrible food.
Tempted by the new BRS Jetboil MiniMo type stove, though but not planning to go back to butane.
First vid I have watched of yours. Interesting. Subd, I will check out some more of your vids.
I have been putting off titanium pots for years until just recently. I haven't tried them yet, but what you say makes perfect sense, because we use titanium clamps and trivets in jewellery making because titanium does not suck the heat away from the piece you are working on. Low thermal conductivity.
Very good thank you. See you further down.
All the best.
Glad you like, and good to have you on board! Next video is in progress, it will be either on stoves on headlamps...not sure. Partly depends on me making things and gear arriving for the former.
I replaced my titanium pot and pan for a Trangia T28 for the same reason, burnt food. As you say ghey are great for boiling water but anything else is a real faff. I also have a Zebra can, it's a tad heavy but worth it.
My favorite is hard anodized aluminum from gsi but they call theirs Halulite. I use it over stoves and open fire. Back in the 1970’s all of our group cook sets and boy scout mess kits were plain (uncoated or treated) aluminum.
I have an aluminum six inch pot and a coated frypan I got from trangia. I like alcohol for cooking so far. I've made pancakes already with the simmer ring. Everyone just boils these bags of freeze dried food. Not my thing.
@@fire7side yes I love alcohol stoves!
I'd bet that if you took a blow torch to what you are calling a burn that you can't remove... it will change color, its just that titanium changes colors over time under high heat conditions, purples, blues, gold bronze. I actually have done that to some of my titanium ware because it looks really cool in my opinion.
Yes the sides - when they weren't covered in soot (as you'll see in the next video, wood stoves are MESSY), you could see that change. Oddly though, where I scratched the burnt food off is white, and has stayed white. Apparently that's the natural colour of titanium.
Hard anodised aluminium. Great heat transfer, light enough, FOOD SAFE and kinda sorta non stick. Nice vid.
Totally. I love my Fire Maple (melty lid aside, looking for a better solution there)
The firemaple heat exchanger pots are the best. I just bought a 1.5 liter one. To me it is best of both worlds, a boil pot, and wider to be a frying pan. Another plus is a little extra room to cook for a small group of 2-3 people.
Not seen the 1.5lt one...yes I wish might was a bit wider so it could be used as a frying pan, but really happy with the efficiency.
As a dinosaur, i cook my bacon and eggs and bannock over a Firebox stove, in an old cold handle skillet. They were made from very thin carbon steel that becomes non stick with use. Cook over coals rather than flames. 👍
That sounds a lot like cast iron.Surprised how many people use cast iron in the comments! I'd have thought it was too heavy. Cast iron skillets are great, use them at home, they are the best to fry on.
Me too! Firebox and carbon steel, I sometimes use the canister insert since we have fire bans here. I love how things just slide off the carbon steel once properly seasoned and how well it cooks.
A little fact some people might not know:
Aluminium is actually lighter than Titanium. You just require less of it when producing these pots or pans, hence they are lighter.
That is true, aluminium is lighter than titanium as a material - although the problem is you need more aluminium to make the same strength pot vs titanium, so titanium works out lighter because it's stronger so you need less of it.
But in practice we are talking a few grams here, it's a pretty minor differencs.
Love the Sea To Summit folding stuff. For info. the folding bowl/plate and mug fits inside my Trangia T27, the cup fits inside my Jetfoil and the bowl/plate when partially expanded hugs the lid of my Trangia T28. I have a lovely titanium spork but this remains at home as I use the free wooden sporks left on the coffee counter at Waitrose. They also occasionally give you free coffee if you spend on a loyalty scheme but you need to provide your own cup- another reason to carry a Sea to Summit mug (fits in jeans back pocket)
Yeah I love my folding Sea to Summit cup...the insulation helps too. I'd carry wooden cutlery but I can't cook with it, hence now using Outlery, found the folding sporks tended to fold back during use.
I find that at Waitrose you can often cadge free soy packets from the sushi counter.
I am glad that someone is telling the truth about titanium pots and pans. IN regards to your rmeark about using stainless steel because you can cook on an open fire.....Fifty years ago, I cooked in the U.S. government issue aluminum Mountain Cook Set over an open fire while backpacking in the California high Sierras.
It is possible, but as campfires can get upto 800-900C it's a risk. I am guessing you cooked in the embers and not the flames?
@@harduphiker No. We built a trench fire and bridged it with a 3 bar grate, and then cooked over flames. This was on the Silver Knapsack Trail in the Sierras. The only wood available was pine and you cannot maintain good embers with that.
accept its really not burnt, its a color change, keep heating it youll see different colors forming - its harmless to the titanim itself@@harduphiker
@@bubba7626 I have seen those, but yes, it also gets rather sooty, Just used the titanium pot on my wood stove (the next video, up soon!) and it gets VERY sooty.
@@harduphikerIf you pre-coat the outside of your pot with liquid dish detergent such as DAWN, before placing over a wood fueled fire, it makes soot removal ridiculously easy when cleaning!!!
Thank you. I was thinking about titanium, and you just saved me time and money. 🎉
No problem, glad I could help!
I don't think anyone was buying titanium stuff becuase it cooks good. That is a well known drawback. Aluminum is also not great at cooking. Steel is better for cooking. It's all tradeoffs like everything in backpacking. None of them are "scams". For the record I usually carry steal pan and a titanium cup. For me, the extra weight for a steel cup is not really worth it, but the extra weight for a steel pan is worth it over titanium (and aluminum pan) for cooking. I worry about using non-stick stuff over a fire or very hot burner.
Yes I don't use non-stick, I used anodised aluminium...I know the trade offs, but it does feel that it's 'Titanium For ALL!' with the craze around Titanium...
For almost 30 years, I've used a long-discontinued Sigg Inoxal pot - aluminum outer bonded to stainless steel inner. The aluminum provides good heat transfer and the steel strength, durability and an excellent food surface. The all-steel lid is a bit oversized as it is intended to double as a frying pan (which it's not very good at). The 1-litre pot is a bit on the heavy side at around 260g. Back in the day, though, it was the best of all worlds.
That sounds really good. Why are all the good things always discontinued?
Steak: Just throw it on the campfire coals. No pan needed whatsoever
You can't light a fire anywhere in England. Will that work with a canister stove?
@@nickhealy9047 you mean legally?
Is there any other way Martin?😉
Very true. Titanium is good for boiling water and a few other things. For most other cooking, I use stainless or aluminum if you want lighter weight.
Yup I always use aluminium now
There is a saying my father has always told me throughout my life: "A tool is only efficient as the user holding it."
Titanium cookware is a tool, much like any other cookware. It has a specific style needed to cook with for it to be efficient. I tend to focus on moving the Ti pan around on the heat when using a "pocket rocket" like stove where the heat tends to be concentrated in one area. I do this even when they have liquids in them as well.
I prefer Ti because it heats up quick, it cools down quick, it's easy to clean, it's lighter, it doesn't rust, which is perfect for the winter time and quick lunch breaks when you want to pack up right away and be on your way. In this case, I really like having a Ti wood stove for that reason exactly, is the fact it heats up quick and allows me to cook quicker, and it cools down quick and allows me to pack it up quicker.
Going back to what my father has said, it's about experience, knowledge, and the ability to adapt to your circumstances. Thanks to him, I don't blame items because I misunderstand them, I blame myself because I might be using them improperly.
Use a hammer for nails, and use the screw driver for the screws. Sure, a screw driver can hammer in a nail in a tight squeeze, but it's not designed to do that, and it will be difficult to do so, so just get the right tool for the right job and use it appropriately.
The right tool for the right job, definitely... But you also need the experience to know which is correct.
@@harduphiker Yup, that is what I said.
If you are melting aluminum cookware when you cook, your fire is way too hot. Cooking fires don't have to be very large or very hot for pots and pans type cooking. Literally burning twigs is sufficient for most things unless you are cooking a gallon of food in a cast iron dutch oven or roasting meat over a fire. Your cookware shouldn't melt or warp, even aluminum.
As I said in the video. I've never done open fire cooking, so it's not really my knowledge, but yes, I seem to dimly remember it's like BBQs - you cook on the coals/red embers. not the hot flames?
I didn't get on with a wood stove when I was burning twigs though! It burnt far too fast....
I have the Evernew Titanium solo set (pot, mug, lid, tray) and I love it to bits. It's for boiling, simmering, and nothing else. And that's the way I want it. I have an ultralight BBQ for meats. But all I want from my pots is hot water for drinks, and to simmer up some rice, pasta or soup.
Which is great, but I think some of us want to cook. I'd argue simmering isn't really good with Ti either, since I was simmering risotto and still burnt it - I can do that with my alcohol stove and aluminiium pot if I don't stir it, but it's far more easier to burn it with Ti pots.
You can tell the quality of the titanium pretty easy. If it’s aluminum or part alloy 1. It’s more scratchable 2. You can impact dent it 3. Its uncoated colour will be a lot darker grey 4. It won’t rainbow colour after heating several times
Evernew are the kings of quality ti.
Mine did rainbow colour, so it's likely Ti. Wasn't sure about the white stuff but apparently it's Ti Oxide.
Actually there is a non-stick titanium cookware! It's called Boundless Voyage Titanium Non-stick Frying Pan by Boundless Voyage Outdoors. Although I haven't tried it so I don't know if it's good or not. Maybe you can review it?
Thanks for the info!
A heat diffuser of some description would help. A large copper ring or similar. but that defeats the weight issue.
Yeah that's the trade off - by the time you've added an diffuser, you may as well have taken stainless or aluminium!
@@harduphiker I was thinking about cooking rice and putting it in a glorified tea bag of sorts. on account of attempting to stop any burning.
I suppose using gel fuels might help as they don't give the heat of a gas stove.
I've thought and of all sorts and experimented with concepts.
But you know what, after all that I still prefer my trangia 1ltr pot over my titanium pots any day of the week.
It does the job and cleaning it is easy as my hands can get right in there.
@@vespasian266 after I made this video I tried alcohol stoves with the same pot in the video, cos that's what I use now.
Same problem - it's less, but you still get that 'hotspotting' and it still can burn!
I think yes boil in the bag /sous vide cooking might get past that burn issue, @Tominthetent does this, he has a vacuum sealer and makes his own premade meals that way, and means no mess.
@@harduphiker have you looked at the Keith titanium rice cooker?.
solves some problems.
I did a version using a cup inside a pot to boil rice or veg. a diffuser of sorts.
After a long time of “hanging on the fence”, I’ve forked out for a Keith Titanium Rice Cooker, have to say, it’s brilliant! I finally got one after a year or more, because the price had come down to a tad under £80 from nearly £100. It cooks rice really, really well. It does rice cooking (I eat it at least 3 times, sometimes more a week, so I have got it down to a fine art) far better than I usually do it, which, when camping with lightweight pans, is not easy. Because it’s sort of like a double boiler/steamer, the rice can’t burn, but even better, you can do pilau rice, biryani type dishes or cous cous with meat and vegetables mixed in. I’ve been using it in my kitchen for my meals, so it’s not just a “one trick pony”. The most rice you can do is 280 grams, it’s meant to do for 4 people, but personally, I would say for 3 max or if you’re putting meat and veg in it as well, 2 portions on the small side- normally I have about 120 grams of rice for myself. You can also use the outer pot as a normal cooking pot and it has a 900ml capacity- that’s 900ml with an inch or two to spare! If you enjoy rice dishes, ai would say it’s actually worth getting, if it was, say £50, it would be absolutely worth it, I did notice on Keith’s Chinese site, it is very expensive on there also, priced in Yen, so it’s not a case of the price being hiked exponentially for the European or American market- forgot to say, I got it off Amazon and it came from USA in about 5 days, no extra charges.
Its Japanese, and uses better quality titanium. I've been sitting on the fence for a couple of years on it.
I did try a two pot solution based on the design. one smaller titanium mug with rice and water and a larger pot that the smaller pot sits in.. put water both with the rice and between the two pots and place lid on larger pot. only tried it at home but it did do the job.
If someone thinks aluminum is a health risk and stainless steel is too heavy, then they could try "Duossal" pots from Trangia that combine the advantages of both materials (Duo-SS-AL): The outside of the pot is made of aluminum for weight reduction and heat distribution, and the inside is made of stainless steel for hardness against abrasion and food acids
Good suggestion! I'll check it out
I only use my tiratium mug/pot to boil water for coffee and dehydrated foods. If I need to cook I ise my Trangia. Hiking frying pans are always hit and miss though. The primus li tech pot is also good for boiling up food but is way heavier than the titanium mug and the frypan lid is tiny.
Basically depends on what Im eating.
That wee coffee thingy looks well handy. Im currently trying put some different coffee solutions. I never got a good brew from the bags.
The Brew Buddy is pretty good, light. It can block a bit though but a wash/stir fixes that. Surprisely good coffee.
Totally understand for the pan ! It’s made only for cocking so titanium it’s not a good idea. But I’m cocking sometimes in my Toaks 900ml, risotto, eggs, stirring ognon and carrot. You need some olive oil and some care but you can do it 👌
Yes I have done risotto and pasta many times in my tiny Lixada 750ml pot - which is really 500ml, cos 750ml is RIGHT to the top! Having now used the FIre Maple on a few trips, it's so much easier though. A lot less stressful, can just leave it and stir ir every once in a while on simmer, not stir like a maniac every 5 seconds on same!
I think you mean cooking, don't you...?😅
@@susanp.collins7834 LOL missed that.
I like a bit of cocking too! (in fact I've been there as well, it's a real place, walked from there in this video: ua-cam.com/video/FoEN9C24Pag/v-deo.html)
It sounds like you're not controlling distance and heat well enough.
Hear, Hear! You are very right. Aluminum are better for cooking, and the little extra weight are not a problem. I believe the titanium thing is a gimmick for sale purpose, and many of us buy new titanumstuff to carry 300 g less in our backpack. Its kind of ridiculous because many of us weigh 5-10 kg to much i bodyfat. I have a steel twigoven (flatpack version) and it have its not pretty anymore after countless of hours of burning, but is as zero warping. Then I bought a titaniumversion and it warped after the second times, its still working but annying never the less, but it is not as "flatpacking" because of the warping.
Tool for the job, I totally agree. I've got Ali, Ti, Stainless and Cast iron.
Depending on the camp, and how far I've got to carry the bl00dy stuff 😆 depends on the kit I bring.
Hikes would be Ti, for the weight. Cast iron, I'd used for based camps. Horses for courses as they say.
You should try out something carbon steel, I added a carbon steel wok to the Basecamp box and I've been loving it because it's got a really long handle
I bought over 13 years ago out of curiosity two Trangia Titanium Pots, they were quiet affordable but discontinued probably for a reason. They are super light yes but they work/perform horribly, for heating up water OK but for cooking they suck like all Titanium cookware. I have as well a MSR Stainless Steel Set for more than 2 decades, some Hard Anodized Aluminium Primus Pots and a full Set of SIGG InoxAL Pots + Pan I bought 30 years ago. The InoxAL are by far the best I ever used thick black anodized Aluminium outside clad thin Stainless inside with Stainless Lids who are used as plates as well. They are not the lightest but also only weight a little bit more compare to the MSR and they work brilliant for serious cooking build like tanks, in this case I favor performance + quality over weight after 3 decades of experiments. The two things out of titanium I really love for over 2 decades and use all the time are a MSR Fork + Spoon.
Yes I have a titanium knife and spork I use. Titanium has it's place...I have a titanium woodstove and I've got a titanium windshield coming, that lack of thermal conductivity is useful there! Titanium does cool down really fast (but also means your food gets cold fast too - I forgot to mention that in the video)
@@harduphiker It works quiet well + is used to replaces steel parts from stoves of all types it save weight but it comes literally with costs, it's around 40% lighter than steel. I got an Markill Peak Ignition srew-on canister burner 15 years ago it's super light with it's Titanium pot support but actually I prefer my MSR Whisperlite International for the Bike Touring + Camping I do for 26 years.
Agree. I have a Titanium mug which is set up as an emergency brew kit which goes everywhere with me and that's it. I've used it twice. All the rest for camping is anodised alu, with the exception of a ss kettle in my Trangia 25 set. My wood stoves are ss. Titanium cookware isn't a scam; its just unnecessary, but will always have believers.
It sometimes has it's place, but I do feel still it's overhyped, when other things are better and cheaper...I even recently tried going back to my Ti pot. I still wasn't impressed, even with an alcohol stove.
Those torch stoves will ruin the non stick finish on your pans…it’s too hot in one little spot.
Yeah I personally wouldn't recommend using non-stick on camping pans...or any pans really. It's just too easy to scratch off!
most titanium cookware is an aluminum alloy. if it doesnt get that classic purple rainbow oxide, its probably not pure titanium. aluminum titanium alloy has okay thermal conductivity.
Aluminium with Titanium coating is a great heat conductor.
Pure Titanium is better in that regard than 18/10 steel, while Ti-Al alloys are even worse.
I like titanium pot but i use only boil water. Recently using anodized aluminium pot and coated fry pan a lot. Easy clean!
Yes the Fire Maple I have is anodised aluminium, can't wait to use it. Looks a lot easier to clean!
You are using a way too hot heat on your Ti pot. Ive been using my 750ml ti pot for years. I like to get the tins of curry or chicken in white sause for simple camping meals. You hardly need a flame and you need to constantly stur it, a long handled ti spoon is a must. I dont have a burnt bottom in my pot.
Ive used the BRS3000T, soto windmaster and trangia. I find if you use the pots handle and hold it abouve the flame on less controlled flames is the best way to cook, not just leaving it on the stand to make a hot spot.
Ive used alu, ss and ti pots. Ti i find best, then ss.
I dont like ti frying pans. Something like the pathfinder or msr skellet i find best.
I mentioned constantly stirring the pot in the video....I prefer to not spend my life stirring manicly! And yes, I also talked about using a lower heat, hard with the MSR to get it to simmer as it still has a very localised heat and a small head. Having now used the aluminium pot for boiling water, it also doesn't go cold really quickly unlike Titanium...if you have to spend extra grams carrying a pot cosy or a heat diffuser, then it really negates the whole point and gram advantage. May as well take aluminium or stainless.
"and hold it abouve the flame on less controlled flames is the best way to cook" - that's fine if you're cooking something that takes a few minutes, but risotto/pasta? Are you going to hold it there for 10+ minutes? That's going to be painful for your arm! Reheating things or boiling water, Titanium is fine. For any actual cooking, no.
Also the MSR skillet or the Pathfinder are rather expensive compared to the cheaper Chinese options, or just a small alu or stainless frying pan from a supermarket and cut off the handle....you really don't need anything special. That's 'hiking' premium for normal stuff! And what this channel is trying to avoid.
Sorry for the multiple replies, responded from the wrong account!
Most helpful and credible, thanks!
Wow thank you!
I'm not in to lightweight stuff and I've never owned titanium gear, because I don't see the point. Aluminium isn't good for your health, it leeches. You can get pretty cheap 304 stainless gear from Chinese merchants and they work fine.
Also, your fire shouldn't be up that high for risotto. That was on you 🤪
I've heard (but never witnessed) that you can just heat your titanium really hard and it cleans off with a brush. As a side effect it turns all types of pretty colours. (not sure if this is true, or just salesmanship on part of a titanium pot owner)
"Also, your fire shouldn't be up that high for risotto. That was on you 🤪" - it wasn't entirely.
You need to boil the water at first, so was very aware not to 'burn' it then, but I found getting the right simmer level with a MSR Pocket Rocket and a titanium pot is very hard. And if you're using an alcohol stove I suspect it's even harder to control the flame unless your burner has a simmer ring, and even then. Anyway LOTS of stirring!
Pocket Rocket has a really harsh localised flame, exacerbating the low thermal conductivity problem - and simmering without it going out in wind is not an easy task! (I don't have a windshield currently).
This wasn't my first time cooking risotto in that pot btw - I had problems with my old Camping Gaz burner as well, so I know it wasn't just the MSR.
Add in the fact that the Lixada "750ml" pot is misleading - so meant to get a decent meal I had to fill it to the top so had to stir it very carefully, meant that it's easy to make it stick.
And yes, the first thing I did to try and clean it was to boil up some water. It doesn't work, it was very strongly welded!
I didn't mention it in the video I then also did pasta in it after, having learned the simmer level on the MSR and having to scratch off the rissoto burn! I still managed to make some of it stick again, not as bad, but I had to watch it like a hawk and stir constantly even on a really low setting. Made cooking more stressful.
Titanium also leaches btw, Titanium Oxide. The jury is out on whether that is good for you (Europe just banned it as an additive), I'd avoid storing acidic foods in there.
TL;DR - Titanium is not the best tool for the job, cooking in titanium should be restricted to boiling water really.
@@harduphiker fair enough. It sounds like your tools are overpowered for fine cooking. Given that risotto done well is hard enough on an actual stove, let alone on lightweight camping gear.
@@ericdpeerik3928 I do a mean risotto at home (gluten issues so I cook a lot of rice dishes). I don't think it's impossible, I did some good pasta and risotto dishes later in that trip, it's partly the pot and partly getting used to the simmering. I think the MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe and the Soto Windmaster are better for cooking actually (they have a regulator and finer controls), but usually beyond my price range.
I am switching to alcohol stoves to see if the simmering works better. I suspect it will - more slower cooking, but maybe less stress? I really want something that's quieter and more ''leave it and do other stuff' than fervent stirring!
Hey! Beryllium is lighter than aluminum and stiffer. We should make cookware out of it. Nevermind that silly berylliosis toxicity and the brittleness. That's how you do engineering - focus on the one attribute you like and ignore all the problems. Go marketing!
Yes LOL. I don't think titanium is massively toxic, it's something to be aware of storing food in it or using it long term cos the oxide is a little questionable, but yes, totally agree there is a weird false dichotomy here of "light = might".
I find it odd people telling me about how dangerous aluminium is in the comments (I do hope they never take indigestion cures, they have many times any dose they'd get from a cooking pan in them, magnesium as well SHOCKER!) when really it's minor, and has a massive research track record showing it's comparatively safe, the dementia research is unproven as yet (and many other possible triggers as well, neurology is complex) so jury is out for now.
Unlike say PTFE which is a bit too forever-chemical for everyone's liking (and I never told anyone to use non-stick either! Didn't stop a few people saying I was poisoning the planet - oh the irony).
People are allergic to nickel and chromium in steel as well, nothing is perfectly inert. Well gold and silver are, but not so great for cookware :-P
Hey Tim, Great video sir. A very interesting watch and thanks for the shout out. New sub from me pal. Keep them coming.
Glad you liked it! And yes more to come on the Chinese headtorches and probably as you suggest various stoves and my experiences with them :-)
You are not mentioning the fact that. all the alu pans tend to have non stick coatings, which all eventually wear off and u consume it,and its carcinogenic. so i tend to use Ti and stainless stuff and avoid them,, good summary tho cheers
The Fire Maple pot I showed in the video isn't non-stick, it's anodised. I don't know about the cheap Chinese pans I got, it looks more like anodised than non-stick. I'd have to check.
If you're worried about PTFE (non-stick) coming off, then you should worry more about titanium oxides which come off titanium. Europe have just banned them....UK FSA disagrees, the jury is out on their safety. So it's possible to use aluminium safely, the risks of dementia study was proven to be wrong.
Titanium is actually officially toxic (I use Ti and Zinc oxides in my paints, like Cadmium you need to avoid accidentally consuming them) , but the oxidisation layer protects you...but similar to PTFE, make sure you don't scratch that layer off during cooking!
Even Stainless Steel has it's risks if minor - see this www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/household-products/safe-use-cookware.html#st cos it contains nickel and chromium. As always, it's about moderation and realising these metals are everywhere, even in the food we eat (and in the case of PTFE and Titanium, maybe use wooden/plastic cultery).
I personally think the risk of PTFE is a bit like aluminium was a decades ago, overstated and via a few small research papers. You really have to consume a lot to have a major issue, and the substance that was the problem PFOA has been banned (although yes, whether China banned it I don't know).
But I'd not use them over an open fire, Teflon/PTFE releases poisonous gases over 350-500C.
@@harduphiker some are hard anodised..and then have a non stick coating applied after ,some dont,, bit of a rabbit hole once u dive in... as ive just found out.. and some of the aluminium is rendered inate bey the anodising process....lol ,cheers... but it is a quagmire to figure out ATB good work on the vid
Thanks! And yes I agree, I've been researching cookware for a long time to find the best stuff and just getting info on exactly what stuff weighs or how fireproof the handles is hard enough, let alone what it's made out of!
Went through the Ti phase and have returned to hard anodised (no non stick coating) way better for cooking a meal.
I have two Widesea heat exchanger hard anodised pots one large one small, have found them to be excellent pots and the larger one has a lid that can be used as frying pan, smaller one has a lid more like a cup.
The cost of titanium is a joke. When the USSR fell, titanium flooded the market. The metal was no longer being used in huge quantities by their military. So one of the best (next to diamonds of various colors) marketing campaigns ever convinced people titanium was the way to go for everything made of metal, wedding bands, camping gear, bikes, you name it.
Titanium for hiking is bragging rights for who can put together the lightest set of gear for hiking. The usual bougie mindset.
I found that TURNING THE GAS DOWN, was a useful tool when cooking with titanium! Feel free to use my skills lol😂
I could never turn it down on my MSR Pocket Rocket, it's very much TOO MUCH or blows out!
Pure aluminium melts at 660C, but the alloys go far higher & they're unlikely to ever melt on your stove. I go for heat exchanger pots every time & a folding windbreak too. If you want to cook properly, try cast iron,.... but not on long hikes !
Jup aluminium is better on a burner.
Often the extreme ul backpackers shoot em self in the foot for a gram.
Say a backpack 50+ litres whitout hip belt at 800g instead of an Osprey Exos pro at 1000g with a great carry system.
Say it louder for those at the back!
Yes, I don't get the idea of taking things that don't work well, or barely work cos they are light. It's making ultralight a bit of a mockery when people do that...it's not a bad idea, but it does seem people take it to extremes.
Just get a "Monowalker"!!!😂
You can easily clean Titanium by placing directly into the fire. It will burn off the carbon and leave it clean.
Thanks for the tip....I did try that - and with water, and it never totally got off the risotto, I can still see the burn marks today!
I’ve an MSR XGK EX stove.
I’d need 20 layers of space shuttle tiles and a concrete pot to prevent food burning! It’s like an afterburner on a jet fighter. It burns water 😂
Wow...yes their stoves are rather...fierce? Pocket Rocket is the same.
Titanium pots aren't really a scam per say but the user MUST KNOW that this metal isn't known to be a good heat conductor hence why it's used in Fighter jet exhaust systems because it cools down really quickly so forget using it for a frying pan because pretty much everything you fry on it WILL STICK guaranteed regardless if how carefully you "seasoned" this cooking utensil!
Exactly. And also I've seen people carry pot cosys for their Titanium pots to reduce that rapid cooling...so extra weight, along with some carry diffusers to solve the heat spread issue! I bet if you weighed all that, and an aluminium pot, they'd weigh the same.
It's funny how people go for 'ultralight' and then get all this gear to counter the issues with the UL expensive thing, when they could just go a few grams more or the same and carry the thing that works properly AND is cheaper. Own goal.
In that way I do feel it is a scam because you're not actually saving weight, and it gets a bit culty/obsessive and there is a capitalistic push to (re)buy new lighter things. UL is great as a starting point as long as you still take things that are functional for the uses you need it for. Yet I feel a lot of UL is exactly the gram-shaving toothbrush-handle stereotype that is mocked!
Just go stainless. No problems. Used stainless from the early 80s. Just control your heating.
Can be heavy though, hence I go aluminium. I use stainless for cutlery though, since the titanum folding ones are so bad.
I have a stupid question, as someone who has never used any of these... what if you turn down the heat and cook for longer at lower heat?
Still sticks because the heat is so localised. I tried that....also simmering with something like a Pocket Rocket 2 is hard.
I ditto that. I have used the tiniest flame, yet the food burned. Needless to say, but I put that pot on ebay…
yes it is "Ultra Light" and it is designed to be used by Hikers who stay on the trail for several days, weeks and months at a time.
and those Hikers will carry foods similar to MRE's, where they only need to boil water to heat and prepare meals, teas and coffee.
they are not made for frying Fish or cooking Beef stew. Same with the Stainless Steel hiking cook kits, they don't handle the heat very well and they burn the pans easy.
"Hikers who stay on the trail for several days, weeks and months at a time." - I have been hiking and camping for as much as 3 weeks at a stretch? Does that count? And I still found titanium a pain.
Also those MREs or the hiking alternative - real military MREs are super heavy cos they have the ability to self-heat, or are meant for hexi stoves with a canteen usually... are a nightmare for those of us with allergies. Can't eat most of them cos gluten or other things I can't eat.
The lighter hiker versions are super expensive, and they all are usually full of salt, sugar and sometimes fat. Really doubful of the health of those things. Empty calories.
Real food, real cooking. I mean taking some pasta and noodles and risotto packets (not MREs) isn't exactly hard, and is cheaper, and as light? But that means taking cookware that you can actually COOK with.
Also, talking MREs - the military camp canteens and military cookware is usually stainless or sometimes aluminium. Pretty sure they never use titanium, unless something has changed recently.
That’s why I said MRE Style and not MRE only. if going camping and not hiking, then bring a Cast Iron Skillet
I've cooked an assortment of foods in my TI cookware, i've found that it helps to constanty stir, use oil or butter, and to use wind screens to keep the stove flame relatively stable.
Titanium is for a water boiler and thats about it. Fantasic for that. If your really cooking than aluminum clad stainless and good old carbon steel reign supreme.
Yes I went back to my Titanium pot for a recent short trip and...it's SO slow! My alu heat converter pot is way faster, and uses less fuel, despite being larger.
I have tried and dont like Titanium - it gives food a metal taste often to me. And I dont like aluminium due to its possible link to dementia. So stainless steel is for me! Not that heavy for what I use and I can even pop it into the dishwasher if I am really desperate!
The dementia research is a bit of possible red-herring - interestingly it's as much iron, copper and zinc, so copper pans, cast iron and stainless is out, cos guess what's in stainless steel (zinc is often added, iron obviously, along with nickel and chromium) www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/risk-factors-and-prevention/metals-and-dementia
"Since this study was reported, much research has been done on the relationship of aluminium and Alzheimer's disease. As yet no study or group of studies has been able to confirm that aluminium is involved in the development of Alzheimer's disease."
I really side-eye these scary reports as being possible junk science, they know that really high levels of metals can cause dementia, but even weirdly with natural occuring metals as well, and normal brains have those levels as well, so how that means Alzheimers starts in some is not proven - because it was just metals, those other people with the same levels of metals in the brain should also develop dementia? But they don't.
I just use the titanium pots for boiling water .Good for noodles 😎
Yes for that it's great...cooking, less so.
All things being equal, ie; material thickness and pot dimensions, titanium is heavier than aluminum. That means, if cooking food items in your pan, a thicker aluminum will serve you better than titanium. Aluminum diffuses the heat much better............. Thanks for sharing.
Titanium's advantages over aluminum are strength and high temperature tolerance. My pots don't have to be all that strong. I've had the same set of Evernew aluminum pots for 40 years, so I suspect they are strong enough. Neither are they burnt through anywhere.
So then you're left with the facts that aluminum has better heat conductivity and lower density than titanium.
Are the titanium pots really that much lighter? That means they are very thin, otherwise the aluminum pots would be lighter.
So the design concept is to run THINNER walls on the poor conductivity metal? Are they TRYING to burn your food? Really?
It just doesn't pass the engineering sniff test. That's why the only titanium I've got is a spork and even that is only marginally better than properly hardened aluminum. I have to admit that my Esbit Triangle stove stand would be a little better in titanium than the current stainless steel. Easton could be making kick-ass titanium tent poles. MSR Groundhog stakes in hardened titanium too.
Why aren't they using titanium where it really shines instead of being weirdly focused on cookware?
it is a strange one - I think it's the classic groupthink of 'Titanium = lighter = better'. Not always...
It has it's place. I wish I'd gotten a titanium pot stand...I made my own from a coathanger cos I'm poor - but I wish it wasn't steel for one reason - rust. It's starting to rust a bit getting wet in the pot/rain, but I guess I could just make a new one?
As an engineers son, I am also rather sceptical about the tensile/torsion strength of titanium, I think compared to carbon or steel it flexes and bends, great for pots (bar the thermal conductivity) - less great for tent pegs or poles.
I think that's why things like those titanium version of the Delta Anchors exist (the forces there being different, if plastic is fine then titanium would be too)_, but not so much traditional tent pegs or poles because I don't think titanium is great on bending forces.
Just trying to sort out what will work for me. I might yet get a 400ml titanium mug just for hot drinks and maybe instant noodles, but I ruled out titanium for cooking from the outset At the moment a supermarket budget non-stick 8" aluminium frying pan (288g minus handle) and/or a 1.1 litre stainless steel pot (204g), give a decent choice of menu. Of course, copper, gold and particularly silver are better thermoconductors, but unlikely to feature in my cook set for the foreseeable.🥴
LOL yes, although copper is quite heavy I think, but those are very expensive! I'm sure someone in future will try and make a super-ultralight pot with one of those ;-) The literal 'pot of gold'...
Titanium is great if you are just boiling water, it's very light, fast (if very localised) heat and cools down really fast. I'd recommend if for that. But for cooking I think it's a bad choice - especially frying, I had a cooked steak with one burnt bit, wasn't very nice.
After having bought A LOT of cookware (normal and camping gear) i settled for 2 smaller high end stainless sandwich steel pots, a mid sized cast iron pan and a big enamel cast iron pot. Thats all i need as a single.
For camping i prefer a 1L stainless steel pot and (if needed) a small handforged carbon steel pan.
For my bug out bags i went for a 750ml titanium cup/pot with a lid since you probably only need it to boil water. At least one water bottle is made from titanium too. I noticed that the Klean Kanteen 1L widemouth is quite light with only a bit over 200g and not really heavier than the titanium ones.
@@grayssoncarl5020 I guess could match that set too, but at just under 7kg for the lighter options and about 9.5kg for the better stuff I'd need a bit more than a couple of Weetabix to lug it further than bottom of my garden. Respect! 👍
@@typo4000 I started to do my shopping on foot using a medium Alice backpack which has around 15kg fully stuffed including the backpack itself. I dont have to carry it far (like a 10min walk) but i have no problems with that so i hope that a bugout bag with that weight (or less) would be manageble.
I tried the large Alice i but would stuff it too much and then it would hurt on my lower back and the risk that i get in pain from my knees/hip starts getting up.
I just hope that i dont have to ever use my bug out bag since i dont harbour any romantic thoughts about bugging out into woods at my age and health. But better have it than need it.
@grayssoncarl5020 I'm of an age where I'm getting increasingly conscious of the weight versus distance equation, and naturally, season and terrain need to be factored in as well. There is also the exponential costs of weight saving to consider, the calorific burn per mile, again adjusted for terrain, and so on. By the time I've done all the math I'm usually too exhausted to leave the house. 😔
I like to cover a lot of miles, carry as little as possible, have a decent meal at the end, and do it all on a shoestring budget. Just haven't figured out how to do it yet. Isn't that part of the fun. Take care!
Thanks for the video, those are great points. Sometimes when packing for a trip you just go for the lightest cook kit possible without considering whether it's compatible with the type of food you're bringing. I do mostly multi-day treks, and I carry all my food. Obviously I favor dehydrated/freeze-dried meals which just require boiled water. So 9 out of 10 times I'll pack one of my titanium sets. Occasionally I'll do an overnighter with the wife so we can take a heavier kit if we're going to be frying, cooking and simmering stuff.
About the Brew Buddy, that's an amazing little gadget if you're into coffee. I prefer it over the GSI Java Drip because the coffee stays in contact with the water much longer, whereas with the Drip the water just passes through very quickly. The Java Drip is a little lighter, but it has those awkward legs that clip to the edge of the cup which can be tricky to detach when the cup is full. Great video!
Thank you!
Yes I considered the GSI, it seemed a little fiddly in operation and a bit fragile.
I've been using the same MSR Expedition cook set for the last 30 years
My apologies perhaps I should of translated the quote to modern tongue instead of direct extract. It means you should not pursue the taste in food but its nourishing capabilities. I totally agree that people should avoid those types of foods you mentioned. When I say 'hardening yourself' is understanding that you comprimise menu variety when going lightweight cook kit options or you comprimise weight to have a greater menu variety. Personally food is fuel to me and I only seek to maximise nourishment and make the meal palatable only. In my previous messages I suggested a means of dealing with the heat distribution on titanium pots. There are videos on titanium heat distribution.
All good valid points there, a bit of oil goes a long way though if cooking meat. Yeah you do need to keep it not too close to a flame though, for fire the higher melting point I prefer. If it does get really dirty I've found you can burnt off using a gas flame. You didn't mention cast iron 🤣
Cast iron LOL...yes as a hiker cast iron is super heavy! That's definitely a car camping luxury item.
@@harduphikerbe nice to see cast iron pans built few mm thick to safe weight
Thanks for the info.
Any time!
IIRC a lot of aluminum pans are Teflon nonstick. I usually stick to stainless steel or titanium pots. I don't really do much more than boil or rehydrate food on the trail.
None of the alu pots I have are non-stick, I avoid PTFE for obvious reasons, forever chemical, etc. And it does just fall off eventually...not good. All the pots I have are anodised aluminium.
@@harduphiker That's good, and a major reason I avoid aluminum. I only have one aluminum pot is a 2L MSR I've used for melting snow. Alu is getting better, I still tend to use carbon steel for frying pans though.
I like titamium, anodized aluminum, and stainless steel. Titanium and stainless steel gets those burn marks on the bottom even when it's full of water. The coloration does not cause any problems. With backpacking, the light weight anodized aluminum cooking gear, the anodized coating wears out after awhile. I found with the fry pans of all of the materals seasoning really helps. All of the non-stick coatings wear out quickly. I say go with your pocket book. Car camping you can use your seasoned carbon steel fry pans.
With backpacking weight is your enemy. I go with titanium pots and the 8 inch Banks fry/bake pan, so I can boil, bake and fry. I love my bread, fish, desserts, and pizzas. If I had only one piece of cookware it would be my fry/bake, the anodized aluminum is high quality. I've had my Banks fry/bake for twenty years and it looks like it will last forever (knock on wood). I love cooking outdoors with gas, liquid and wood (my favorite).
Funny after I made this, I found my large stainless pot in storage, might start using it again, it's a bit massive though (1.5L?) for one person! The Banks looks great. I am having a lot of fun with the anodised Fire Maple, it has to be said, it's perfect for what I wanted so far, something that was larger than my tiny Lixada pot - too small for cooking really, and works with alcohol burners and conserves heat with the heat ring. In fact if anything it's a little TOO efficient, found it boiling away even with a simmer ring!
Steel every time.
Hmm. Seems more of a skill issue. Don't use a blow torch to cook on tin can thick materials and expect *not* to burn stuff. Seems pretty straightforward.
Btw, if you're familiar with cooking at all, you can over-easy eggs in those lil titanium skillet lids with little trouble and hardly more cleanup than wiping the warm bacon sweat out of them when you're done.
You'll never do it by putting the skillet over a blow torch tho. Not once, ever.
I have had the same issue recently with this pot and my alcohol stove. Risotto and pasta stuck and burnt .And one thing that isn't is a blow torch.
Good to know!
Though NOT a backpacker, I've always believed titanium is highly overrated - mainly by the "blow your own horn" crowd. Hard-anodised aluminum is almost as light and tough as titainium, but far better conductivity and much less costly. And it is inherently somewhat non-stick.
If you want good heat distribution with titanium you can use a diy heat diffuser or a double boil.
Doesn't carrying extra gear to diffuse kind of destroy the weight benefit of titanium? You might as well take aluminium ;-)
When using stoves with a high btu count as you know you get hotspots. However with a diy diffuser say one made from a food tin lid with bolts creating a gap between the bottom of the pot and the diffuser you avoid direct flame contact. With these materials you create a light weight option of diffuser as opposed commercially bought ones. Failing that you can use the frying pan component of a cook kit as double boil providing it has an equal to or smaller circumference to the pot. This regulates the temperature of the cooking to not exceed 100 degrees celcius. Aluminium leaches metallics into your food when cooking acidic food. Failing that accept that there are limitations when going lighter, harden yourself and "do not pursue the taste of good food".
@@boltaction001 "do not pursue the taste of good food". - problem is, that means people eat junk food, empty calories, which gives them sugar crashes and caffeine/fat highs and lows. Most 'trail food' is really bad for you.
Those dehydrated meals contain too much sugar, salt or sometimes fat, and don't get me started on chocolate bars, sorry 'protein bars'...
'Hardening yourself' should not mean making yourself ill with bad food. Good food is not actually a luxury, if you want to have sustainable energy and health.
Also aluminium if anodised doesn't leech anything unless you scratch it, and tbh it's overstated. Weird people focus on that and not that titanium is actually more toxic, or that stainless has chrome and nickel in it (and for some iron poisoning/allergy is a thing)
Try a different stove, like trangia, alcohol or gas. Or something more controllable.
Or different pots, stainless steel, cast iron, steel or alumi num.
The latter is basically what I say in the video? I now use a Fire Maple alu pot, and a alcohol stove - given the Speedster - which I talk about in another video - is so fierce unless on simmer, I think that wouldn't help here.
Wait a minute, it is not just about titanium pot but you should reconsider the stove too. Flame pattern is important. During most of my hikes I use Vargo Hexagon wood stove, in some cases alcohol burner and if I use gas stove then the key is to use very small flame and it is important to use a stove with wide burner. Give it a try...
I did because my original stove was the wider head yet not ultralight Camping Gaz Bleuet (going to talk about this in the next video I am editing on my old gear) - still had this problem. And as you can see from my stoves video, I use to use a Tentock/TOAKS Wood stove.... ua-cam.com/video/HKexLGgTLZI/v-deo.html and still had the same food sticking/burning problem.
Not tried the titanium with the 50ml Speedster yet, but twice bitten....
Most of my cookware in cast iron small fry pans,revere ware( copper bottom,or heat exchanged pans.If weight slows you down,whats the hurry? Its a hike,not a speed trial! Tis times bane when the blind are led by fools.🤠🇺🇲
Nice Ramble Rant!!!😂 As just a thought provoking question, I wonder if you used a copper plate, say 2mm thick or so to put under your titanium pot to act as a heat spreader??? Copper is used in serious computer cpu thermal waterblocks and heat sinks due to its thermal conductivity which is the next best to silver. I bet the copper would allow for more even heating!!!...which also brings to mind my mom used to have copper clad stainless steel pots & pans. The brand name was "Revere Ware".
That could work! I guess it would be quite heavy though?
If you have all three set up the same TI/SS/AL ,The SS will come to boil the fastest ,saving fuel .Though on a big trip I would still choose Ti over the others .
That would be a good test, actually....I need to get a stainless pot though!
Since "Awatt" asked me for peer reviewed research supporting "the claim that aluminium is in someway harmful" but my reply to his comment won't stick. I'm posting it here instead.
From, "What is the risk of aluminium as a neurotoxin?" by Christopher Exley in Expert Review of Neurotherapeutics, Volume 14, 2014 - Issue 6.
"The neurotoxicity of aluminium has been demonstrated in humans, animal models and in tissue and cell culture Citation[1]. While aluminium’s neurotoxicity is incontrovertible, it is much more difficult to understand the risk that this neurotoxin poses to human health. Aluminium is neurotoxic because it possesses an extensive biochemical toolkit and because neurons are predisposed by their longevity toward its intracellular accumulation up to and beyond toxic thresholds Citation[2]. Aluminium is neurotoxic as the establishment of toxicity thresholds can result in neuronal dysfunction, neurodegeneration and ultimately neuronal cell death through a continuum of disruptive events from classical apoptosis through to sudden and violent necrosis Citation[3]. "
I get that...but in practice no link has been found between say, dementia or alzheimers or effects on the brain caused by aluminium. All the major Dementia and Alzheimers charities have info pages saying that aluminium is fine in the small doses we get - in fact aluminium like zinc and chrome is naturally occuring.
Careful using Aluminum pots for acidic things like tomato sauce, you'll etch the pot and eat the Aluminum :(
Do anodised pots avoid that issue?
@@harduphikerI'm not sure this is a real issue. I was gifted a Magnalite aluminum pot back in 1971, and have used it since for preparing spaghetti sauces, pizza sauces, curries, and a multitude of other foods without any difficulties, no etching and no health problems. But I did experience great cooking on both electric and gas stovetops. And I've use a lightweight aluminum pot on the trail since about 1980, replacing a series of tin can billy that rusted out yearly over fires and backpacking stoves (Svea 123, MSR Whisperlite, MSR Pocketrocket, etc.).
@@memathews yes I mock the scare attitude to aluminium in the new video - not saying this commenter is like that, but had to hide a few people who are pushing a chemtrails line on aluminium. As a friend pointed out, aren't foil hats also aluminium? ;-)
We think more expensive is always better. In the outdoor gear world, it’s often true (even if the improvements are minimal), but it’s not the case here.
Great video and honest information.
The only situation where titanium is genuinely the best is cooking with fire - aluminum could melt so you’d be forced to use SS which is far heavier, and so titanium would be lighter. It would also be easier to clean and sanitize as shown by lonewolf 902. In this case, it is the best material. That’s why I might still order a titanium billy pot and grill. Though with their prices, I have been posting the decision. Im still somewhat conflicted between the Widesea 1.3/1.9L billy pots, and the Tatonka billy pot 1.6L. Tatonka’s size is better, and it comes with a pan. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Boundless Voyage makes non stick titanium pans
Hmm I've seen those, I wonder if they are actually titanium because one of the benefits of Titanium is nothing really bonds to it cos of the oxide (apart from risotto apparently!)
@@harduphiker risotto (and everything else, really) sticks to the bottom of the titanium cookware because of the thinness more than anything else. Anthony Bourdain said it, cookware needs to be heavy enough to disable a burglar with one stike.
Thanks for this film
I bought my very first Titanium set which was the Boundless Voyage Canteen set-with no canteen of course, and in my testing under the car port it has a sticking problem even with water and a couple of hot dogs...STRANGE!
Titanium for low weight and boiling water. Aluminum good weight and heat transfer and better cooking performance. SSteel for durability. That's about it....
Shhh....if you give it away people won't watch my video ;-)
Stainless for me.
How does a hot drink work in the collapsible sea to summit cup? Doesnt it get too hot to hold on your hand?
No it doesn't, there are ridges on it which keeps your hand away from the hottest part. It works surprisingly well.
Square of aluminium worth trying maybe to act as a heat conductor? Anyone tried this?
That's a good idea...a bit like the simmer plates we have at home, they usually have holes in though, like a solid mesh.
Aluminium conducts heat very quickly.
lightpackers dont eat risotto while hiking, come on! titanium for ultralight, aluminium for everybody else or for those who like to cook
I do, and I've hiked 100s of trail miles this year (535 miles and counting, longest ones are tied at 170 miles each) and took risotto, noodles and pasta. Those dehydrated expensive readymeals are chewy and awful....tried them on my Scotland trip, regretted it. I'd rather take a bit more fuel and slighlly more weight - hardly any more if you weigh a Gallo risotto pack vs a Firepot meal, it's very similar - simmer mode on alcohol stoves and pre-soaking means you use not much more fuel tbh. I'd rather make pasta, noodles or risotto than that shit.