Mechanic Tricks: Ripoff or Righteous? YOU decide! Toyota Camry 2017
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Flat Rate Book Time Mechanic Cheating System Easy Repair
Flood Damage Begins! Warranty VOID! Used a Drill on a Seat?? 2019 Dodge Challenger 6.4 • Flood Damage Begins! W...
Visit RainmanRaysRepairs.com for more or
Support the Channel with a Like and Subscribe!
Become a Channel Member or Patreon at: / rainmanraysrepairs
Visit our Second Channel on UA-cam, RainmanRay Off Duty / rainmanrayoutoftheshop
Follow on Twitter: @RainmanRay4Real
TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@rainman_rays_repairs
More at RainmanRaysRepairs.com
Check out my Merchandise shop for Men's and Women's Apparel, MUGS and Stickers! rainmanraysrep...
Support the channel on Patreon: / rainmanraysrepairs
Patreon is a "Tip Jar" I don't post much there, daily YT uploads are all that I can manage for now
Amazon List, must have for any toolbox!
1: Astro Tools 52SL 500x2 Lumen Wirelessly Rechargeable Folding Double-Sided LED Slim Light, & 52SLC 500x2 Lumen Folding Double-Sided LED Slim Light W/Wireless Charging Pad amzn.to/3Jd2h6t
2: Mountain 5-Piece Metric Double Box Universal Spline Reversible Ratcheting Wrench Set; 8 mm - 18mm, 90 Tooth Design, Long, Flexible, Reversible; MTNRM6 amzn.to/3OJTRp2
3: NOCO E404 12.25 Oz Battery Terminal Cleaner Spray and Corrosion Cleaner with Acid Detector amzn.to/3ILbdjv
My Camera Gear:
Gopro Hero 10 amzn.to/3AaxELe
Hero 9&10 Dual Battery Charger MUST HAVE! amzn.to/3g5KdAT
Flexible Camera Mount amzn.to/3Jywrk5
#brakecleanmafia #wifeunit #rainman #comnissionearned #mechanic #technician #dealer #independent #autorepair
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.
Also, I personally use or have used the products featured in my links and only recommended them if I feel they are of good quality.
”Intro Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio”
Thanks to Jesse for making the intro and graphic for us to enjoy!!!
“All the videos, songs, images, and graphics used in the video belong to their respective owners and I or this channel does not claim any right over them.
Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.”
Customer Customer States Mechanic Fails Engine Transmission Gas Diesel off road race 4x4 street car daily driver scam dealership dealer technician how to
Who’s still here in 2024??
Fully unvaccinated and still here.
I love ur videos Rainman,. Have learned a lot.. 💪💪💪👍👍👍👍
Still kicking. I can’t believe you didn’t destroy the box buddy…lol
Hell yeah!!....I miss the doodedoo doo..
I just arrived
Can we all just appreciate how much work this man can get done with one hand!!
If he just had longer arms he could repair 2 cars at the same time.
The other hand is under developed due to using a power tool all the time - however the trigger finger on that hand is enlarged significantly.
Can we just watch the video and not tell others what to do?...
@@Cheepchipsable That sht is no joke. Even if you switch sides, one side is always stronger, or bigger, because of that.
Must. Not. Make. Innapropriate. Reply.
Well done bro.👏
Not only did you make it look easy, you also made watching this 30 minute video not boring with your charismatic personality. Keep up the great work. 👍
Well I don't know who they learn this crapy work, must be in a school somewhere in hilly Billy land, I don't see any torque wrench nor torqueing the bolds to specs, neither seeing he is aligning the wheels back to specs, there is a reason why they have 7 hours on it. Oh yeah you gone tell e he used an impect wrench and that is torqueing enough, here's the news flash, NO IT'S NOT. I wish the owner good luck with this repair and in the event of a fatal car crash I hope and pray they will find the root cause and get this mechanic of the street, for good.
@@thomasheussen4668 who?
@@thomasheussen4668 okay mad man
I can't tell if Thomas is joking or not...
@@jamesroark7093 Sadam hussein he's surely a troll ray isn't a hack.
To do this job correctly you need to remove the bracket and move the brake line out of the way. The additional six hours is the estimated time to find your 10mm socket.
No, I think the 7 hours comes from someone that collects the paycheck and doesn't actually do the work and pays their mechanics $25 an hour or less.
🤣🤣🤣
Lol😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
Only 6 hours? That's bush league.
I’ll tell you a funny story. My brother is a master mechanic for Mack…now he’s in parts and device for Vanguard. He like you would find ways of finagleing things around to be much more efficient for his customers and himself. He got so good at cutting his time down and moving on to the next job that other guys in the shop started bitching about him to the office until his supervisor allied him in. He asked him why it wasn’t taking nearly as long to do the same repairs other guys were doing…my brother told him he knew ways of doing them faster without compromising the work. And added if none of his work is coming back to leave him alone.
And so did they take him outta the shop or fire him cause the company wasn’t making stupid amounts of labour rates? Cause that’s how stingy a lot of the dealerships are.
@@LJT9393 they finally promoted him! So now he’s in a office
Some people have ways to “think outside the box” I have never understood how this is unappreciated. Keep in mind. We as auto technicians seem to have are easy jobs and then are miserable ones. They tend to work out evenly. The most important part is to be fair and adjust quotes as needed. I had a 3 hours job take me 12 hours the other day. A customer complained about the up charge and could not understand. Nice to have a video to back up your work because it’s sometimes hard to explain. Overall I ate most the labor and won’t be working on her vehicles any longer. The other day she learned the hard way. Gave me a call for a pair. So happened to be a water pump on a Tahoe. I have a way to cut this job down by a couple hours and regularly charge customers less. I spoke to a local shop who finally did her repair and asked what they charged. They do good work. I had a good laugh to myself and asked him if he wiggled the pulley out and left the fan shroud the way I have done it so often 😂🎉. Of course no. She paid 2x what I would have charged… Do honest work and you have good karma and if things do not go well then simply refuse work for certain customers. I apply this to all jobs. I have the best part time job ever now. All do to honest work.
@@TourettesMobileMechanic so you’re an auto technician, and cause of one customer leaving you now have a part time job? I’m confused
So where's the funny part??
"Little does this control arm know my ability to escalate the levels of violence is unmatched"
Best quote of 2022 right here. 10/10
Totally agree.. i couldnt stop laughing! 🔥💯
Mazda 3's Ahhhh
When all else fails: get a bigger hammer.
Being an ASE certified Auto mechanic, people just don't understand that special tools also cut down on time. I totally agree with your statement of not telling people how long the book called for and how long it took you but at the same time flat rate is there for a reason and buying special tools combined with your knowledge goes a long ways.
One of my favorite sayings is you aren't paying me for the 30 minutes it took to do the job you're paying me for the 30 years it took me to be able to do the job in 30 minutes.
Giving you the thumbs up because you nailed it.
It didnt take you 30 years to do it in 30 minutes lets be real
Ill just pay the guy who does it in 15 minutes with 15 years of experience
@@530Issa okay snowflake would it make you feel better if I said it took me 5 years to be able to do the job in 5 minutes?
10 years to be able to do the job in 10 minutes or do you prefer odd numbers like 5 years to do the job in 10 minutes or maybe one year to do the job in 8 minutes.
Ultimately it doesn't matter, someone learned a skill in x amount of years that enabled them to do the job in x amount of time.
@@jameskenney5623 I dont care how much experience you have im not gonna pay you extra just because you have more experience. And i dont think its right to charge someone for 30 years of there time. That saying sucks
I remember when I was younger I got a quote to change the spark plugs on my car It was going to be like $800 because they said they had to disconnect the engine from the mounts and lift it up and all this I did it myself in 15 minutes you could just reach right behind the engine and do it but then there are those jobs that say they take an hour then you run into all kinds of problems and ends up taking the whole day
Depends on the vehicle. Most older American junk can be done with short cuts and clever workarounds like the older GM SUVs with 3.4s.
Even doing a plug replacement on older Toyota Camrys with 3MVZE V6s can be done in much less time with modified hand tools.
Other cars are much more delicate and finicky. Cutting corners doesn't always work, even if it looks like it will. I doubt anyone with a higher end Audi will have their plugs changed by some typical chain smoking, of beer smelling biker dude from some hole in the wall shop. He'll just take your car he just worked on for a test drive and beat the pi$$ out of it every chance he gets.
"I've already established I'm not taking this axle out so this is just how it's gonna go" I feel like every mechanic can relate deeply to this.
:))))) If the 7 hour claim was legit, not something else, then the guy they timed to base it on is a moron !! @Just Sayin' :D
Yeah that was my decision the second time I took my tranny out, so I could replace a synchronizer, bad idea, but mostly because I didn't have a tranny jack
@@jayemayyalldamnday
Harbor Freight $89.99 with the super coupon available in the ad paper at the front door .
They are janky poorly made in China 💩 but they are usable.
Was able to lift Turbo 400 into place by myself.
👌
@@Rhythm911 ,
You have to know how they figure the time schedules on these repairs. You should know more about what they do and how many times each repair is done and timed before getting into the name calling.
@@BobbyTucker And what makes you think that I don't know!!!??? I guess you think you're psychic !?!!? :))))))))))))
Always impressive to watch a pro make challenging repairs look easy.
Let's give him a Michigan car and see if he can make it look easy.
A pro??? This guy has about 20 years to go.
a pro uses a torque wrench, can pin up properly, and doesnt use a gun on everything, etc.
To all: bet your pro has all parts right! Arms legs etcetera etcetera! Now I'm from Missouri, so SHOW ME! Really show me, you've seen mine! Doubters! Unbelievers!
A pro would read instructions in servicecmanual first. The 7 hour suggested labor time may include a 4 wheel thrust alignment, which could account for a couple of hours. Looks to me like job would have been easier removing brake rotor to access ball joint. Then would gave not needed to remove ball joint from new arm. He did not compare new parts to old prior to disassembly. Definately a rookie mistake. Using air- electric rachets instead of breaker bsrs is a good way to destroy expendive tools. I speak from 45 years experience in field.
The "department of redundancy department" 😂 I'm not even sure you caught it as you said it but I'm still awarding 94 proficiency points because I had tears and may have peed a little😂 You sir win supremely crafted comment award of the day and are a splendid human!
BTW my middle finger stays like that most day while I'm at work as well so no worries, are totally forgiven and are awarded 7 bonus points for elevated coolness factor!
So glad someone else appreciated that fine word smithing. I even wrote it down so I wouldn't forget to use it later.
@@christianpowell9976 Write it down twice so it's redundant, thats what I'd do... again😎🤘🤣
"department of redundancy department" is classic, it's like reprinting paperwork to read "complies with the paperwork reduction act".
10 points to Gryffindor for that one. Well played.
When people at work used to give me the one-figured salute I tell him yeah I'm still number one thank you very much
I just want to thank all mechanic's who make these videos on different vehicles.
You have no idea how much it helps DIYers
Watching how it's done saves me so much time!
Ray is concerned about flipping us off, then proceeds to give us the double-bird at 27:54 😂
Love your content, Ray. Instant Sub. 👏
Lmao didn't notice the one he pointed out and completely missed this one as well....to damn funny. Thanks
@@redactedlogic There is another instance later in the video, but I wrote the comment before finishing the clip and didn’t capture that timestamp. 😂
Lol yes he did, if he became a flight attendant in another life he'd fail the "pointing at the exits" part.
The fact that he has to worry about that, so disappointing.
also says 200k people and of course yt picks this video to reach almost a mill at current time
This was the best 33:53 mins I've spent in awhile! You're an incredible mechanic, and honest to boot! Blessings brother!
They were quoted 7 hrs to do that job? Either a dodgy mechanic or a 1st year apprentice with a hangover!
@@donotwantahandle1111 Or the worst of all... a dodgy, drunk apprentice. 🤪
@@christianpowell9976 more than likely that's the maximum it could take and it's better to overshoot the repair time than under pay someone because the vehicle is in the rust belt and no bolts will come undone and you have to do it by the book to be able to get the bolts loose.
I wish all mechanics were as good as him. 😁
I was gonna say, what shop does he work at? I would’ve found my new mechanic that I’d take my car to if he was anywhere in my area
I see where quality tools make a difference. Great work and great tools.
Good Man. I truly appreciate your work and honesty at the workplace helping people. We need good people and mechanics like you in our society.
I for one became a mechanic because i never trusted shops. In my life i've seen there are a few good mechanics still out there that wont rip you off but its still hard to know upfront.
Been knuckle tearing wrenches for nearly 50 years and talk to the components just the way you do without a camera. Great job !!
Now is talking to it sound like this @/$÷×&%$#@! ???
Same here lol, the guys like to remind me that I'm talking to myself lol.
@@UFC_Buffalo not a problem untill yourself argues back atleast that is what i tell my guys at work
@@1Bohimyme lol yea, I'm not _quite_ there yet. Another boating season, or 2, and I'm sure I'll be having full-blown fights with myself 🤣.
Some of us do it with software components, too. Crazy
Book states, "This job will take 7 hours to complete". Ray with an evil laugh, "Foolish book you have no power here".
"Nothing is written!" - Lawrence of Arabia
My guess is that it's so Toyota dealerships can line their pockets. I've personally seen this several times when I owned a Prius.
"My will is as strong as yours, and my kingdom as great. You have no power over me."
Sarah, _Labyrinth_
Also Ray, _Workshop_
"Do not cite the Deep Magic to me, Witch! I was there when it was written."
- Ray
7 hours? challenge accepted
'your future hasn't been written yet, no one's has. Your future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one.' Doc Brown
I used to laugh at the "flat rate" manual for a well known Japanese brand of marine engine. The time allowed for each job assumed the engine was in a fully equipped workshop with all the correct tools to hand. No allowance was made for the fact that the engine was only accessible by standing on your head in a boat which could only be reached by dinghy after a long drive. Due to the salt water invirononment every nut bolt and stud would put up a fight. Luckily your car appeared in new condition, had it seen a couple of winters on salted roads the job would turn out a lot different! Nice work though.
Ah, yes! The tedious life of an outboard marine mechanic... Salt and 'loomium!
I have a relative who owns a boatyard. Despite having a fully-equipped shop, I more than once saw him or one of his guys upside down in the back end of a boat trying to do something without having to extract the engine. They didn't do that for something as simple as an oil change though, they had this vacuum system that could suck the oil pan dry through the dipstick tube.
There is a reason "flat rate" is called "flat rape" by some mechanics (-!
"Im not taking the axle out" for like 20 times while he is being stubbon a true mechanic love the vids!
Watching you is so stress free & so informative at the same time. It always amazes me how you know where all the different bolts go. I usually take pix of every one before I remove it or I am screwed lol. The fact that you stay calm even when you have an issue is amazing. You rely on the pry bar where I would be reaching for a hammer lol. People like you are a treasure these days. Honest & Professional. It sucks when you are at the mercy of a dealership, but most of us don't really have any other choice. Stay safe & keep the videos coming. Thanx.
He does technically have a video of where the bolts go. I always forget that while watching videos.
Brave man. Jack engine with hood closed. I kept expecting to see a power bubble in the hood when the car came down.
Exactly my thoughts too! Or a hose or wire connector pulled loose. Thats when the 7 hours comes in.
Seven and a half hours book time, half hour to change out component, seven hours frantically trying to find patented Toyota jumping nut, cause there's no way I would have spotted that flying under that tool cabinet 🤔🤣👍
Yes of course they are manufactured in Toyota's plant in Mexico. Next to the Mexican jumping beans factory.
@@roberthackenberg2874 😆
There’s probably a lot of errors in book time that probably can go either way. By not charging the book time I’m sure the management has a problem with that. Having said that I now understand why they let you go. Honesty has no place in the corporate world.
Great job Ray. Glad you’re on your own. Life will be a lot less complicated in your own shop and family matters. Again, best wishes and will enjoy all your future videos.
depends on the service writer and what was quoted for hours
@@OscarLopez-gq4hecorporations lije governments dislike saving people money
We had a problem when I worked in R&D for Jaguar. Dealers were not following the procedure to change the faulty shifter. They were not changing the whole part ( shifter and pedestal), just the shifter. It saved about 20 mins max ( and the book time was way more than doing it the right way would take), but dealers knew best... Problem is, the cable outer connection was on the pedestal, and the shifter was set at a specific calibrated position on the pedestal, ( and the mechanism was really sensitive - which was the root cause) So the “new” shifter would apparently fail quickly ( it wouldn’t be in alignment) but in reality, it wasn’t in the right position on the pedestal! Then the dealer would change out the “new faulty” shifter again, using the wrong procedure, and round the merry go round we would go, with the understandably annoyed customer. We only realised this when the returned shifters were missing the pedestals when we investigated the returned parts. It caused a massive and expensive headache. Sometimes, there’s a reason for the book procedure that isn’t obvious.
I was thinking the same thing. For example, the engine should not be moved like that. It can damage the other mounts. Im sure the 7 hours is accounted in moving the engine properly. Easy way to know is look up the procedure not just the time.
I'm definitely not a mechanic but watched a lot of air crash investigations. Seeing the engine in this position made me very uncomfortable.
Checked on Toyota TIS, , the 7.5 hours is for control arm replacement with engine removal. It only pays 2 hours with the engine installed. With that said, the 2 hour procedure still calls for dropping the sub frame and using an engine support so that you can gain access to the hardware with a torque wrench on reassembly.
He also didn't look under the hood to see if anything was being pushed by the engine like a brake fluid reservoir or some other important thing.
@@jimr549 that's what I was thinking when he was pushing it up more...it was only up like 3 inches above it's regular height though. I dunno. Not a horrible mistake
What I love about Ray: His daily content uploads, inteligent diagnostics and conversation and unfailingly calm and upbeat demeanor. What I dislike: The use of mr. boost tactics to get into the algorithym. But I’m glad he uses them because I wouldn’t have found him otherwise.
How do you know this??
His titles are sometimes to much like Scotty Kilmer's clickbait
He probably loves the fact that you love the videos, more than you love the fact he puts them out. Guessing, he makes as much on ad revenue every few days, as he makes on a 7-hour book rate job that takes an hour.
@@davidwright1653 title of the video is "Warning video may offend you" which is pretty clickbaity
Zero click bait in this title. The question is 7+ hour legit or a ripoff. Disclosure was in first minute or so.
Johnson’ First Law of Auto Repair: Any tool or part dropped will roll to the geographic center of the vehicle or otherwise most inaccessible spot. When dealing with body shops who are dealing with insurance companies, the insurance companies are going to pay by their chosen flat rate manual. When you charge the body shop less than the posted flat rate, they will almost always charge the insurance companies the amount that they approved to pay. The body shop will pocket the difference, not you. If it was reversed and the flat rate was 1.5 hours and it took you 7, they are going to go by the book and you lose. Flat rates have a way of balancing out. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Overall it’s a pretty fair way of doing things and creating uniformity. If it was a customer paying out of pocket, I would absolutely give him a break.
The Insurance Flat Rate of 7 hrs. is based upon that all of the Strut / CV axle / Lower arm & engine shock mount would have to be R&R'd
with No Power Tools & jacked up on a single jack-stand !
@@rrfields65 That may be true, but it doesn’t change the fact that that is the amount that THEIR estimate allowed and they authorized to pay. Make no mistake, somebody is going to get paid the 7 hours. It will be you OR the body shop. Insurance companies figure estimates based on installing new parts but many times spec out used ones. In a lot of cases those used parts arrive to the tech bolted to other parts and/or in bad need of serious cleaning before they can be used. The tech typically doesn’t get paid for this. Book rates also don’t account for parts that are bent making them more difficult to remove. I would more happily see the tech get the windfall as opposed to someone who merely passed a piece of paper.
@@brucecoleman7412 : Absolutely !!!
If I did this job ? { and I was a ASE line Tech
for GM, Ford, Mopar, Honda } and did complete R&R of the Lower, and did it in say
2 hrs. ! I'm collecting the pay for the authorized 7 hrs. , Because TOOLS of TRADE aren't Cheap - and neither is my body & mind !
This.
@@rrfields65 If you worked for Ford, ASE certifications would be utterly useless. Ford has it's own certification program and hasn't recognized ASE for more than a decade.
I can't remember how many times footage had been lost or I forgot to hit the record button sometimes ya get in a groove and parts are coming off and going back on so smooth the record button gets forgotten @Rainman Ray's Repairs
I wish I could work with you! “The department of redundancy department” LOL. Your skill, your attention to detail, and your excellent attitude deserves to be compensated to the full extent. Especially if the time includes the realignment. You are a wonderful technician and a stellar human!
I don’t think he wants to work with you.
Let me explain: mechanics want to work alone as much as possible.
@@Maxim.Teleguz and able to talk out loud. Lol.
@@Maxim.Teleguz Yeah, 2 people under the same car is like slow dancing...
work for less ..yeah sounds like a great idea !!
Like Scotty told Gerodie on that one ST:TNG episode, always estimate more time than you actually need. That way it looks like you are a miracle worker. Everyone is surprised, and happy that you got it done faster than expected.
Unless its honda powersport flat rate
Ok, Scotty. You must have seen Star Trek too. ;)
"Its like the first time you fall in love - you don't ever love a woman quite like that again. Well - to the Enterprise, and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again"
Unless it's Ford Warranty....then under-estimate by 50-75%....
Step 3: flap the motor mount around for 5 hours and 30 minutes until it removes itself. That's why it takes 7 hours 😂
Back in my flat rate days, we called that a true GRAVY job. Every mechanic deserves those now an then!!
Yes because they usually take much much Longer
I also second this
I'll third it. I did a 3.3 hr water pump in 20 minutes. The customer was mad as heck. My boss showed them the book time. Funny, the customer was in a hurry to get it done, but upset about the bill ...
Every now and then you need that major win to offset those days you wounder why you ever thought it was a good idea to get into this line of work. Many of my wrenches have learned to fly a time or two.
@@paperman9708 personally I find it commendable what you do. I operate the same way when I do ATV/motorcycle repair jobs in that I charge for either the time it should take or actually takes, whichever is less. I surely understand why people get upset. I know I would. That's why I do as many repairs myself as I can.
You're a master of your trade. I hope that I can find a mechanic as worthy as you. Keep up the good work And great entertainment.
The only way this takes 7 hours is without an impact and doing it on the side of the road rolling around on the ground! I’ve been doing these in an hour since at least 2012. So of course I say righteous.
*raises hand* ive actually done them on the side of the road with hand tools...done in under 2 hours.
Exactly the reason I never use shops that bill book hours. Alldata books should be burned. 🔥
hours really dont matter. The hours are billed to the Insurance company, which in turn goes to the premiums that we all pay to drive our cars, anyways.
@@nimrodquimbus912 Name checks out
The 7 hour time is with much bigger vhs type video cameras to capture the action. Image the size of the mounting hardware for those cameras to get up close.
Great job showing how a job can be done completely without costing an unreasonable amount of labor time. You made that job look easy. Thanks for the video
He's still charging the customer the 7 hours. Because he worked smart he will still get full book time.
For the first 20 minutes, I thought I had seen enough, Ray was no authentic mechanic, and then at the 20 minute mark, he uses a hammer, and then I knew, Ray was a real mechanic after all. Great job, making control arms fun again. Health and happiness to you and yours.
🤣
It's not a hammer. It's a force multiplier.
@@shrodingerschat2258 And a dead blow force multiplier, at that. That ain't no carpenter's hammer.
He could have avoided the need for the hammer by simply taking the stabilizer end links loose and pushing the stabilizer bar up. Would have also saved him a couple minutes.
The funny thing about this, was the fact that as an ex mechanic for the army I know that all the talking to things and talking through what your doing is just part of his daily process. Now he got to just add a camera and make some money from youtube for what he probably does normally. I know I used to talk like this all this time.
Honesty pays.
Money from UA-cam? He doesn't make beer money off of yt directly.
I truly thank you for being such a professional through the whole video. You added humor to it and there was no foul language through it. I could tell you're not really that old but you seem to have a way to know the shortcuts that a lot of older mechanics know.
It's a breathe of fresh air to come across and or work with someone that knows what they're doing.
My man, I just want to say it's a pleasure watching someone with your methodology work, immediate solutions to multiple problems.
I'm just an average Joe who does a service + brakes. I love watching stuff like this.
Keep up the good work mate
Protecting the paying customers one customer at a time. Good job Ray!
I'll bet the smash repair shop still charged the customer or insurance the 7 hours.
@@davidd1492 charge based on rhe book. Sometimes it takes less time and sometimes it takes more time.
Insurance will still pay what they quoted for the job.
@@davidd1492 Insurance paid that body shop before it even went to to the quick lube place so any discounts from ray flat rating the job only increased the body shops margin and opened up the quick lube place for liability having skipped the sub frame and subsequent torque procedure. Also the book time of 7.5 hours is for replacement with engine removal, it only calls for two hours with engine installed.
That was very interesting thanks for bringing me along. I noticed you having an array of tools needed to make your job easy.. .. I was hoping you would put the control arm side by side to see the damage?
Their was no damage it was an up sell it doesn’t even take 7 hours to remove the hole motor on that car
Thanx for having me along. Altho, I don't see it listed for 7 hours. C'mon now ! But he is a really good mechanic, all kidding aside !!!
@@darranlynas it was damaged. The 7.5 hours is for removing the mount, and removing the crossmember. And r and r to the control arm. It’s not an up sell it’s a skilled technician that thinks outside the box.
@@darranlynas I’m lil
@@douganderson7002 he put them side by side and there was no bend only chipped paint ¿?
Close to 50 yrs of fixing norwegian cars makes me envious of seeing Rays clean and non-corroded repair jobs.
Here in AZ you never have to worry about it either. Never ever gets humid enough for a long enough period to do really any noticable rusting, even our old classics have really good body/frames
Same goes in Scotland! I was amazed at the lack of even superficial corrosion!
Old school torque wrench. Nice!
Bonus Fact: The green and blue dots seen at 1:47 are for part identification and correct orientation during part assembly in the parts plant. Sometimes vehicle assembly uses the dots to properly locate the orientation of the part for installation. I work in a plant that makes anti-vibration parts for vehicles.
thanks for sharing your knowledge. Much love from australia
Alignemet by man or laser guided robot ? (seems kinda space age but a relevant question lol)
@@Oh-Jay52 Usually both. During part assembly it's mostly lasers and cameras inside the assembly machine. Vehicle assembly is likely for the person to alliign the part correctly. Sometimes laser/camera.
Color dots are also used to identify two parts that look identicle but have different bushings. The wrong part installed on the wrong part of a vehicle can cause major issues even though it fits.
@@TheCorpsehatch Love it when someone knows exactly why and can give 1st hand knowledge to others , Good Man , Thanks mate
@@Oh-Jay52 Color dots are even used to identify two or more bushings that look the same or have slightly different appearences. At a quick glance those similar bushings will look identicle. This is to insure there are no mixed parts prior to assembly.
Thank for your professionalism and honesty. It is refreshing to know there are still some mechanics out there with integrity..
And yes you are right it is Not worth going to jail for. But also we all know what goes around comes around.
Good job.
This is sitting in a ten thousand dollar lift and those tools is using is hundreds of dollars, if you used simple hand tools it would take 7 hours. You pay for experience and tools.
@@ramonfulton5575 "book time" is service times based on a professional shop with 2 or 4 post lift & all the relevant tools, including air tools or battery/mains ratchet.
Not home DIY 🤦
@@alexmanojlovic768 right and I am saying you pay for that. This guy bent a snap-on wrench. None of his tools were cheap, his green racket was 500. I own two. Shop time is an average between fully fit out shop and say apprentice. He gets shop rate to change it out. So he is still
Paid for seven and can work another car afterwards so for him to spend a lot on tools is worth it since he can make more, and shop can bill more.
@@ramonfulton5575 a) the cost of the lift hardly makes a difference to the time taken to do the job. b). He's telling you you can do the job in an hour, not 7+, so he's unlikely to scam you for 7hrs labour, is he? He's showing you the book time is ridiculous (My Volvo 5 cylinder S60 Clutch replacement is a 7.5 hour job, so the book time for a lower suspension arm is taking the p155, big time).
All your points are relevant to the hourly rate the shop charges, not the length of the job. If you're a back street shop they'll charge £30/hr. A franchised, dealer authorised StealerShip with all the toys, carpet, sofas, coffee machine & a hot receptionist with low cut top, you get shafted £120+taxes to pay for the niceties & allow the StealerShip to screw it's customers.
Your comment is the most irrelevant one I've seen this year.
Yes and I clearly explained that the price of the gear in the shop is reflected in the HOURLY RATE OF THE SHOP, not the book figure for the HOURS TO DO THE JOB. The 2 are entirely different & the book time shouldn't be an excuse to SCREW THE CAR OWNER.
Try a bit of reading comprehension...
Hope you don't own a shop.
I wonder why mechanics are called grease Monkeys!
This reminds me of when I was a teenager and decided for mothers day I would fix up my moms honda accord lxi. I took it to a shop to get one of the parts I just didn't have to tools to get done (OIL* pan due to exhaust and cross member in the way) and told the shop that was all I wanted done. I already had about 300 or 400 worth of parts I was going to replace at home to include much of the rear suspension which was independent suspension, water pump and gasket, and several parts in front end suspension. They tried to get me to have them do all the work saying the car was unsafe to leave the shop. I told them just do what I asked, so they did and had me sign a waiver to get the car back. I then spent the day replacing all the parts in question and when done took it back to the shop to have alignment checked since tires were new too. The shop asked me who did the work so fast and for what price. I told them I did and they tried to offer me a job which I turned down. Told them I didn't have the tool sets for that kind of job, and I had learned many ways to get jobs done to include how Ray is skipping recommended steps to get the job done faster. I guess they just thought I was some ignorant teenager when I showed up. If they only knew by that point I was in an auto-collision repair class at vocational school and had been working on cars since I was 9.
*I stand corrected on a 20 year old memory. It was an oil pan, but instead of saying 'Maybe you meant Oil pan' given the description of the job, some decided it was better to use that as a reason to discredit the series of events like typical internet trolls.
We did all suspension parts on our 08 Sierra just a couple months ago. Had the same thing happen. Went for alignment and Joel offered the husband a job on the spot. We're just self taught and shade tree summer day people.
Trans pan? On a Honda. Thats bs. Sorry bud haven't seen one yet
@@JoeMamasLover69 1989 Honda Accord Lxi pan is blocked from removal due to low ground clearance and removal of the exhaust pipe. The gasket was leaking and needed to be replaced. At the time all I had was one jack, no lift, no jack stands, and a fairly basic mix and match tool set. With no way to get the additional clearance I needed it was a job out of my ability. Especially after spending several hundred dollars on other parts.
The mechanic wanted to declare it unsafe due to the water pump leaking and the state of the suspension. The independent suspension in the rear end was nearly falling a part due to worn bushings and bad ball joints in the front end.
If you think I meant the mechanic was impressed by the trans pan removal, you didn't read properly. The shop did the pan gasket. I did all the front/rear suspension and water pump/gasket. I brought it back to the shop for alignment in roughly a 24 hour turn around time.
As this was roughly 20 years ago I may be confusing it with the oil pan, but I do remember clearly that the exhaust pipe ran straight down the center of it and I could barely fit my arm up to the shoulder under the car without a jack, and wasn't about to get halfway under the car without jack stands for safety reasons.
@@Kitkat5335 That's not what he meant. I'll let you figure it out.
@@mikem.9197 The problem Mike, is he called BS instead of correcting a mistake about a car I worked on 20 years ago. Telling someone to figure out their mistake in a memory doesn't make them right, and doesn't make what happen a lie.
Just like when I started in construction and everyone thought it cute dad brought his little girl to work until she was the one hanging the drywall, laying out the framing, doing the stomp on a texture. Just like it was impossible I was a Lieutenant in Corrections, or that I worked in IT at Hewlett Packard for four years.
I've done a lot in my life, so expecting me to remember a minute detail about a car that belonged to my mother 20 years ago, or that it surprised a chauvinist mechanic that a teenage girl knew how to fix a car, let alone the majority of the suspension as a gift.
Please, do get over yourself and 'figure it out' mentality.
As a former master tech with 20+ years of experience, I have never seen you do something I wouldn't have done myself..
I guess you didn’t mind damaging the customers other engine mounts either by not unbolting when jacking up the engine 🎉
I've been a mechanic for over 25 years ....and yes without power tools and impact guns ....this may have taken 7 hours
i bet you could have done that job with a pair of visegrips in less than 7 hours!!!
Toyota and honda the repairing will always be easy and always have shortcut to do it.. same like my experienced with my 4 runner that they tried to charge me $1500 and expected of 6 hours doing an oilsump gasket and transmission filter, fluid replacement.. at last i do it myself in my garage in less than 30 minutes and less than $120 of parts cost.. Even if it's a continental car such as audi and bimmer also will never take that long to do a control arm replacement.
Its called Wrench time not impact time. Tools are an investment i would hit for 4 hours instead of 7 but tool bills are beast.
It woulda taken me 7 hours that's for sure, even if half the time was just looking for tools
there are shops that charge you what the book says no matter how fast they fix it in and the reason they give is the mechanic is just more experienced in that job so they are able to do it faster, doesn't matter what the book says
Typically the stealership.
Does that mean that if book says x hours and it takes 2x or more than the book, they only charge book?
@@ithinkdoyou usually. that's why you need to take the wins when you can
that's the way it should be
When an insurance company is involved you better get what you can, or they get you.
It’s always good practice to be honest. Customers love seeing a 7 hr job getting done in less time
Do this on a rust belt car. 7 hours may not be enough...
When they says book rate 7 hours,you are going to get 7 hours billing rather they got it done in 2 or 3 hours.
@@tomrobie4374 But on the flip side if Some other Jobs actually take longer than the book says you still only get paid for those hours.
@@tomrobie4374 car wizard says he still charges book time even if he finishes early because he still should get paid fully even tho his skill level allows him to finish way sooner
@@B0xlife1 i hope he is way sober while working.
Great job! And yeah, base off what I saw 7 hours seems excessive, unless they didn't have power tools or maybe no lift? 🤣🤣🤣
I can see it taking 7 hours for a DIYer life myself, but for a mechanic worth their salt, such as yourself, the video is around 34 mins, there was some cutaways, so lets say 30 to 60 mins
Imagine how fast it would have been with two hands in full swing Haha, awesome work nice to see an honest mechanic
But that means his videos would not be longer than 5 minutes. 😁
I love it when things go easier than expected. There's no shortage of the opposite happening!
I really dig watching your vids man. You remind me so much of my mechanic buddy and the calm temperament he displays when he works on stuff. It just proves that some people are correctly programmed for this kind of work...people like you and him. And the fact that you are an honest guy to boot just echos that correct programming. Keep it up brother.
You are calm throughout n this is what's needed.
Screaming loosens the rust
@@alakani The more I grunt and scream, the more torque my arms have!
Sounds like yinz dont live in the rust belt
@@Pippy1 Nope...I'm in the bible belt. We just string people up that are con us. :)
FLAT RATE, BABY!! Making that gravy! Edit: just saw your final thoughts. I couldn't agree more. The books have errors all in them. Was an RV Service Manager with 4 techs and 6 bays. Imagine a flat rate book that covered all the fixes in a small apartment ... with both 120v AC and 12v DC and a drivetrain. Complete nuts!
I imagine that the time could go up considerably when the car is older and all the rust sets in and every bolt is seized. This repair is more likely to occur on the car when it's older, this one just so happened to get bent early ^_^
When I saw the 'little metal shim deal' drop, in my head I worded 'oh damn I wish I had a camera running... oh wait'. Then you looked to check the other side and still assumed a wrong position, couldn't wait to see the reinstall on the new control arm. Hecking delivered, when time came to massage it back you had it already in the right orientation. Very nice job and somehow really enjoyed watching this.
At 15:46, "Okay, to prevent any conflict of components...." THIS is why you excel at repairs. Toyota did not anticipate such an easy workaround.
Fucking engineers. If they had to work on what they designed they’d probably do a better job at it.
@@jgamer2228 we actually are encouraged to go to the shop and work on it. Problem is the due dates and the pressing projects that are waiting right after.
I agree with you. So is probably why some engineers like to work at home on their cars instead of taking it to the shop.
@@jgamer2228 on good Firma engineers are forced to work on their own stuff because the manufacturing has to build it later...
Problem is that still lots of assholes exist and they just want to be done with their work so they design things badly like on most vw cars.
If you company culture is stinky you won't excel at work is the take away
Love a competent mechanic! Having great tools are awesome,saving the mechanic time allowing him to pass on the savings to the repeat customer.
Not really a difficult job to do. I've done a few Sienna vans. Same thing. Though I'd love to collect the time that they call for, it's way too much money to charge the customer.
Glad the job went smooth. Every time you said how you'd beat the crap out of book time I was waiting for disaster. I've been there a million times
And I've told you a million times, not to exaggerate!
I am sure the book time was 0.7 hours, hate to deflate your ego.
Lunchtime with Ray, how you make jobs look so easy. Dealership fills you with nonsense and we believe. They most likely do it the same way as Ray then pocket the difference.
Must say very satisfying to watch a master at work. You have a great day 👍🇬🇷
Hence why they are called, "Stealership" Haha
@@stampede230 Other mechanics do the same thing. My father was 500 miles from home and had to have the alternator replaced on his car. Book said 2 hours. The mechanic had it done in about 15 minutes in the parking lot while my father stood there and watched. Guess what? My father was charged book time.
As an old flat-rate mechanic from the early’70s, I have been on both sides of the “seven hours” situation. The main time I would stick to book time was at the manufacture’s dealership. There, it sort of evened out. Nice work.
Brand new car no rust. Not bent to hell. It was an easy repair. Add 20 years of rust and bend it 20 more degrees so it bends the bolts also. Also any mechanic knows the tools do the job. Good tools easy job. Bad tools hard job. Hes using about 15000 dollars worth of tools and equipment that made the job look easy.
This is the reason why I do all my own work when I can. It’s hard to find honest people these days. Also, I think like he does in my head I’m like there is no way possible it’s a 7 hours of labor job.
Its a blanket 7 hours. It accounts for other variables that didnt come into play here. This is an easy repair cause it was hardly broken. No rust brand new car and not nent to hell. It gets alot worse for this repair alot of times.
Good to see someone who understands how stuff works rather than just reading the manual (RTFM)
sometimes understanding how things work is part reading the manual.. Love to see you diagnose a Open in a Can-BUS with "experience and knowledge" alone.. wont happen even for the best of Tech or even engineers
Like asking a doctor to do surgery with Experience, but no tools..
Oh, and on the subject of fingers, make sure when you go to the doctor for the annual exam, that you ask him to use 2 fingers! That way you get the second opinion right away!
Can you help me I have a 2007 Toyota Camry 4 cylinder computer says right front anti-lock brake sensor bad changed it light will not stay off
You are happier at this shop than you were at the dealership. Happy for you.
Wow, now there's a blast from the past ... a deflecting beam torque wrench from Kmart!! Awesome display of professionalism in charging the actual labor time.
Unfortunately he wouldn't get in trouble if he charged the full amount of time. The times in the books are based on Below Avg. mechanics and some complications. If the book calls for 7 hrs and it is known that is how they charge, he could get away with it legally even with the video showing otherwise.
Back in the 80's this was a big thing, if the book called for 2 hours to do an oil change, the you were charged 2 hrs even if it took 30 minutes. Shops love this way of doing things as they can make more money from it. By the same time if something went wrong and it took 3 hours, you could still only be charged 2 hrs.
The book time on labor likely included the alignment.
@@terrypetty9822That would make more sense, however, still shouldn't be 7 hrs. Also that would be identified in the book pricing as well.
JP
I was surprised that he even used a torque wrench, I’ve watched the clowns at a repair shop run the lug nuts down damn tight, and then get out the torque wrench and just put a little pressure on it to make it look good if someone was watching. I’ve had that done to my vehicle, I loosened the lugs when I got home and had to use a 24” breaker bar with a cheater bar to loosen. I’ve had rotors warped before because of over tightening. When they use an impact and the air compressor kicked on it’s easy to overdue it
Book times are intended as a "guide" only. And, it's called a time guide, but really it's a value guide.
You multiply the number(in this case it was 7) by your shop rate. That gives the job a dollar value.
If shop rate is $100.00 multiply that by the 7.0 and it gives a job value of $700.00. Need to stop using the term "time guide".
Perfect evening viewing in Australia :) thanks Ray, legend!
Gday mate.. Hunter valley nsw
I agreed with you Jason, recline in the sofa and watch the master at work. 😀👍🇦🇺
It's a Toyota It will make you fight every Step of the Way Lmfao the 7 hour book time on this can been done in a hour or less Unless It Fights you all the way to the End And then it could be a 12 plus hour job @Rainman Ray's Repairs
I don't consider this to be "ripping off" at all, and bluntly, the less you can disassemble to fix a problem, the better. That was a 2017 Corolla, so maybe not the best example, but generally, the more stuff you take apart, the less likely it is to get put back together just right. And some of it, you can put it back together exactly correctly, but the act of taking it apart causes problems anyway.
-
No, this way is what's best for the car, and the customer waits less time, and there's not a damn thing wrong with this. But if you're still sore about the quote being 7 hours, but the reality being half-an-hour, then please consider this: if they quote the customer at 7 hours, but then it takes them 10 hours? _They don't get to change that quote._
Plus a quote is a quote and it does not mean that The timeframe that they say is completely final
@@Guy-fc9zx yes, but that's not the relevant point here. Each mechanic shop has a book -- or these days a website -- of all conceivable repairs to all makes, models, and years. The book/website tells the shop the estimated amount of time to do a particular repair. In this case, the book/website estimated 7 hours, and so the customer was given a quote for the costs of the repair that was based on 7 hours of labor, at $100 per hour. So the question being asked is if it is unethical that the repair only took half-an-hour, but the customer was still charged for 7-hours of labor.
If they are that far off their own quote, they should say they cant work on my car due to inexperience,I have had several shops saythis due to advancedcomputer systems, to make sure they don't break anything... and I thank them for that. Some will try to wing it, and cause more damage.
@@TROOPERfarcry oh I thought they charged on what the actual time not the quote time sorry if I was wrong on this
Your videos allow me to mentally wonder off and just relax.
Just wanted to thank you for providing me with some escapism...in a world
that seems dedicated to it, but whom only ever show me the same 3 formats.
The pride you take in doing the job right shines through and is inspirational for all of us
to do as good a job in the works we do too.
I agree!
Firestone is bad about ripping you off!
I work aircraft and this is from the FAA FAR AC 43.13-1B 7-127. SECURING WITH COTTER PINS. a. Cotter pins are used to secure such
items as bolts, screws, pins, and shafts. Their use is favored because they can be removed and installed quickly. The diameter of the
cotter pins selected for any application should be the largest size that will fit consistent with the diameter of the cotter pin hole and/or the
slots in the nut. Cotter pins should not be reused on aircraft. b. To prevent injury during and after pin installation, the end of the cotter pin can be rolled and tucked. NOTE: In using the method of cotter pin safetying, ensure the prong, bent over the bolt, is seated firmly against the bolt shank, and does not exceed bolt diameter. Also, when the prong is bent over the nut, ensure the bent prong is down and firmly flat against the nut and does not contact the surface of the washer.
Wow, that was painful to read. I thought the aircraft industry would use lock wire instead of cotter pins??
@@schwags1969 they do. Former aircraft mechanic.
And here I was just wondering if it was going to shred the axle boot if left too long.
Whew, good thing he's not working on an airplane. Cool story.
and that's how the one he removed was installed. also much easier to trim them before bending . just need a big set of dikes
This man’s a saint, we need to protect him at all cost !!
Really. does"nt know a nut from a bolt
P
Just normal, don't know what society you live in!
Protect him from what a car falling on him. He good where he at
I have an engineering degree and an MBA, work as a manager in a large manufacturing company. Your videos make me long to be a mechanic. Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. I am a "shade tree mechanic" and love every project. I can certainly relate to looking for a dropped piece of hardware and not finding a tool you just had in your hands. You are an outstanding mechanic. Thanks for sharing your craft. I appreciate it.
Why does every engineer have let everyone know they're an engineer? I don't get it.
@@probegt75 I was just trying to convey that people should do what they love and that money doesn't matter after a certain point. My degrees didn't bring me fulfillment in work. I would have been much happier as a mechanic because I love solving problems and actually doing the work to fix them, instead of just telling someone else what to do. Now, I'd be a fool to take less money, but I would've been happier with a different career. You sound like you think you could've achieved more academically. It's not too late. In any case, don't be bitter.
Other workers hate folk who work clean and efficient. passing snide remarks. they will and do get you out of the work shop. I know I have been there. But little did they know the boss use to call me in the office from time to time and give me a thank you and extra cash.
They added in 6 hours of time for Ray's editing. That was nice of Toyota
The best argument against "It didn't take you that long to do, so I shouldn't pay that much!" is to ask if they're willing to pay more if it takes longer than book time for some reason. In this video's case, it's obvious that book time was way off base and charging a realistic time is 100% the correct way to handle the situation. That being said, there's plenty of jobs I can do in less than book time because I've memorized the job, process, and tools to the point I can do it blindfolded. In those cases, I will still charge book time so everybody is charged the same amount. Even if something happens and the job takes longer than book time, everybody still gets charged the same to keep it fair. (edited because my grammar sucks)
I can play devils advocate. The guy who takes care of his vehicle, keeps the car clean, stays up on routine maintenance, keeps it greasy where he should and not where it shouldn’t… that guy gets penalized and pays the same amount as the guy who treats his vehicle like a POS, has rusted bolts that take 2 hours to break free, etc. That doesn’t sound like a fair shake to me.
@@JakeInGeorgia Condition of the car doesn't come into it. It's the fact that a set repair has to have a set price. If I were to charge based on vehicle condition, I would open myself up to accusations of discrimination or price manipulation. When you reduce the time of a job because the book time was off base, you need to apply that new time every instance that specific make/model vehicle comes in for that specific repair. You have to keep it consistent. Let's say I do decide to price based on vehicle condition. Who's definition of "good" condition am I using? Yours or mine? This line of thinking just opens up another avenue of argument about cost of repairs at the counter.
Or why not charge everyone the new time then.
@@craigbomer8962 I totally agree with this point. Just playing devils advocate. Unfortunately we don’t live in a perfect world and your words are exactly true.
@@JakeInGeorgia The flat rate book ad's time to broken rusted about to break bolts.
Been nice to have a camera looking in from the top when you raised the engine to get some more clearance just to see any strain/stretch on any of the cables/wires/plumbing. Great job done though, liked your logic throughout.
None of the cables, wires, or plumbing are that tight on a vehicle because they're designed to allow for the engine to move during normal, daily operation. Plus, it was still attached to the other motor mounts the entire time.
@@stanglifemike3759 ...phew, easy when you know how! Flawless thinking again there, and thanks for pointing out what would've been obvious to most (but not me!!jaja)
@@MrStr8den 😂 No worries man! It probably isn't obvious to most, but I'm a ASE Certified tech so I know that stuff like the back of my hand. Well.......since I wear gloves all the time, I might actually know that stuff even better! 🤣
Get someone to start the car while you watch the engine..
They kick!
Am not sure but I think you put the engine mount back wrong the arm part was on the wishbone part not at the back of it as when you removed you had to turn it away from you to remove but not sure if could see as it was black if you swung it back over the wiahbone
I've found the "booktime" on R&R can sometimes be over or under the actual time an experienced tech can do it....I've found several mistakes like that in my many moons of turning wrenches. Seems it evens things out when you get shorted on 1 job then it's more on the next. A good tech can beat booktime everytime....even warranty time.
I remember talking to a service tech at a Ford dealership. The Tempo/Topaz in tank fuel pump was a POS. They burned out right, left and centre. Book time was north of 5 hours to drain, remove the tank and replace the pump. One guy got *very* skilled at dropping the tank, fishing out and replacing the pump and restrapping the tank. Like in 15 mins or so. It ended up that's all he did all day long.
Nobody can beat the warranty water pump time Ford offers on the 3.5l engines except in the trucks. Warranty time is just under 6 hours and normal time is 10.5 hours. If you can do it in that 6 hours. You're not doing quality work.
There are variables that can affect the time such as experience/ability of the tech, and what tools are available to him.
Say hello to a Kia k5 heater core paying 3.4Hours for R&R and that's using the new 12345YF freeon which takes forever to recover and recharge. SO NO, NO MATTER HOW SKILLED YOU ARE YOU AIN'T GETTING THAT CRAP IN UNDER 4HOURS. You must not be doing BIG JOBS if you have that mentality.
@@wilwiener agree. Some jobs no matter how " SKILLED " you are you ain't never gonna win.
Thank you once again for showing how things can be done. Always said shop hours was way off and if you go to a dealer shop you will get billed for the book time. It is mechanics like you that restore the good name of them by being yourself.
Can you expand on your comment of shop hours being way off?
@@Wishes890 Billing hours!
@@bobgordon3726 Do you mean if the job takes 1, hour and the book "time" says 2 hours, is that what you mean by way off?
@@Wishes890 Yes, they will charge you for the two hours regardless!
I’m sure some time would be contributed to actually torquing all the fasteners to a specific value. I also wonder if the flat-rate time includes a required front-end alignment?
I was wondering about alignment also, but I didn't see Ray touch any cammed bolts. Assuming the new control arm and ball joint are exactly the same size as the old ones, is there a concern?
@@AerinRavage in theory yes. But you’d be surprised how different the alignment can be after replacing an arm that is a fixed point setup
Near the end of the video he said he was taking it over to the alignment rack
He did take it over to the a-lig-in-ment rack to make sure "the steering wheel is straight." Listen close for him to say it that way right near the end. Unfortunately, the actual alignment is the part of the video that got cut off.
@@Megatron995 exactly
He brags on himself to much . Maybe it takes longer if you don't have electric tools and a nice car lift. I've seen way better mechanics that don't need to brag
Growing up with a father that was a professional mechanic, having friends that are professional mechanics I can tell you this guys attitude is like a breath of fresh air. I may have become a mechanic if I had been around such a cheerful attitude as his in the shop. Most shops will charge what the book time says even when many times it can be done much faster, this is done alooooot.
Yes, a shop has a state guideline sign and a flat rate sign if they charge flat rate.
Yes, they use the guidelines from a labor estimating guide.
If they make a profit, that's how they pay labor, tooling, training equipment, taxes, disposal, environmental fees, storage, advertising, do special offers, pay administration and accounting, etc
If a shop doesn't consistently make a profit, the many expenses get less attention and they start to lack what they need to stay a healthy company. Like being able to attract good talent suffers. They go into debt. They fail to advertise, train, or out fit people with the right equipment books, or computers and updates. When these suffer, their diagnoses may suffer, then it all affects quality.
If you use the same estimating guide to figure out how much you think it should be, you can negotiate the price you pay with some service managers.
Others know their costs and can't negotiate without hurting someone or some aspect they are responsible to.
Still others, are using the guide from a bygone era and don't estimate wisely. Their rate goes up and their people get their time reduced to effect repairs. Who covers their time when it goes over the estimate?
They would try to renegotiate once they were finding more on teardown. Hopefully they would let you know that during teardown it could be no worries, or they could find a need for more time and parts.
That's why it's estimated with a flat rate but always hopefully, negotiable. And sometimes the have to lose or break even.
If Ray has a body shop job, you can bet the payment for that car was already made.
Body shops don't do the trick and hope for the banana.
They get the banana before.
Ray should get his book time if it's already paid. He's leaving them money on the table if he doesn't.
@@dannylinc6247 sorry, sounds like a bs story to me.
@@A.C.71 that's without merit to say that.
You could find out by first asking a shop to estimate the part, and then ask for a sheet from a body shop.
The body shop would tell you they need your insurance companys check before the work begins.
If they find more, they write a supplement. They can trust all they like but the brass tacks are: the work begins when the checks in the drawer.
The estimate is written from a crash book.
It's not the book rays shop would estimate from unless it can't be found in the book they're using.
Don't suggest it's a lie without evidence.
Try it for yourself. Ask them how it's done where you do business with good reputable people.
The other thing you could do is try doing work for people.
Add up your cost.
Add up your space.
Add your tool outlay.
Get the credentials.
Find a supplier who won't charge you retail.
Now, how much have you invested?
What's your estimate?
If you're wrong, you'll starve and go out of business in no time flat.
Just the commercial real estate would break you. Then there's taxes.
Who pays if it's not the consumer?
Who could you get to work for you who is worth your trust if you're not paying the labor standard?
Good news travels fast, they say.
it evens out, there are plenty of times you cant match the book.
@@twothreefour234 true story, a smart estimator knows how to write a sheet so you can stay in business.
A customer is free to get as many opinions as he wants.
Taking into consideration, the circumstances can require the estimate to include the circumstances.
If you then, sent that job out of that shop to Ray, With his circumstances he may have plenty of time to spare. His equipment makes him money. But cost them.
His pro tools make him money. But cost him
His dealer training and experience and mentoring makes him Good, but cost him.
If the job gets dictated by another shop, prepaid, that's a win for him.
If he gives the hours back, it's his own loss.
They pocket it or put it in a fund for their needs.
Rays being like Ken Miles, they took his win from him at Le mans.
I love the way your professionalism comes through. You actually explain why they may justify the time. Still loving your work. It makes me smile
Finding mechanics/technicians like Ray is harder than you think. There are so many jobbers out there who will screw you over one time for a few hundred bucks, rather than doing the job right in the first place and have them come back with their wallets time and again. Never made sense to me.
I am very fussy with car maintenance, preferring to do my own. However I would be happy to have Rainman do it.
I hate the feeling when customers give me the “ripping me off” look. Im a Tech as well, and I’m all about being honest as well. Great video. Thanks
but, as this video shows there is dishonesty and manipulation built into the foundation of auto repair. not by the techs, by the "book". you techs have nothing to do with those books, or their creation. best you can do is, be open with the customer and show them exactly how the book overcomplicates the job, and inflates the cost. I know most of us customers are not mechanics. but, we can understand alternative ways of doing things, and the concept of an easier path.
@@TSoneonetwo so once you show the customer the 8 steps you eliminate and that’s why you can do it faster than the book do you lower price according to time it took to complete job
@@willywonka6252 honestly? No you don't the shop is paying the tech flat rate and it's already been settled that he's getting paid exactly that amount. So you came out great on this repair, but what about that electrical fault you quoted 2 hours that took 4 hours? You basically win some and you lose some and averages out that if you're an honest mechanic you can afford to do your best with ever customers car and actually fix the problem without having to rush and half ass a repair.
@@michaelf.2449 I don’t know anyone that would be ok overpaying after you show them the book inflates the price
@@willywonka6252 ofcourse not you just hand them to bill and move on. If they're happy with the repair they're happy why ruin it by letting them know you got lucky this time? The book isn't inflated it's worst case scenario
So, let me get this right: I've just watched a man do a 7-hour 2-handed job in 40 minutes with 1 hand. That's effing amazing! That's the difference between being able to do your job and being good at doing your job.
meanwhile you dont notice things like bashing bolts down into threads. Stuff that permanently damages things.
@@crisnmaryfam7344 What the eye doesn't see.
The miracle of editing.
Yeah it would be wrong to rip off an insurance company. That's the job of the insurance company.
When I take my car to the shop, I expect that sometimes the job will take less than the book time, and sometimes more (especially with how crusted over my car's components are LOL!) I figure it all evens out in the end, so I don't mind if sometimes I'm paying for more time than the job actually took.
As a mechanic I appreciate what you’re saying. Theirs a quote that isn’t said too often around the but it’s thought about. If I do a job in 10 minutes, it’s because I spent 10 years learning how to do it in 10 minutes. The customers are paying for the years, not the minutes. The customers pay for expertise and experience. For us to do a 5 hour job in 2 hours, its because we know what we’re doing. That’s how we make our money. Don’t get me wrong, 7 hours?? Eh.. I’ve done a few of those in less than an hour. I think most of the time, I just tell the service guys to cut the customer a break and charge them my double time so 2 hours instead of 7. Everyone wants to know why a shop costs so much. Two things, we know what we’re doing and you don’t ANDit costs us a small fortune to do our under paid jobs.
As a Toyota master diagnostic tech, we love control arms but i wouldn’t have put that after market ball joint on (or control arm at that) the one ball joints never fail really and I’ve seen them go 400k+ miles where as the aftermarket ball joints usually last a few years at that. But nice video, we charge the customer the book time unless customer can’t afford them it’s usually at the techs discretion to lower labor time for gravely jobs just to get the sell.
7 hours labor is clearly a mistake and I'd hope Toyota's "book" has the correct time. It's one thing to cut the time by 25% or even more but 1-2 hours vs 7 ? Sorry, that's unethical to charge that much.
I believe Toyota “wants” you to drop the subframe to do it but if you find a faster way than the manufacturer i don’t see a reason as to why my years of schooling and experience requires me to lower my labor on jobs like this, many jobs are done before the “book time” and many jobs are severely underpaid, so as a technician you win some you lose some. I know a trans pan gasket on a v6 highlander book timer is like 10+ hours due to one bolt for the pan is hidden behind the subframe but that’s nothing jacking up the motor and using a swivel socket.
@@isaiahsaunders7009 Don't get me wrong, I understand the "win some, lose some" aspect and yeah, I'm looking at this 90% from the side of the consumer. If you quote me 7 hours and then charge me for 3.5 (even if it took you ~2), you've got a loyal customer !
Ray works more efficiently with ONE hand than most mechanics do with TWO, perhaps THREE. Kudos 2 him!
Hey Ray were did you find the Magnetic Flexy Flashlight Mount do you got a Link I could use a few of them @Rainman Ray's Repairs
Was a tech years ago at a Chevy dealer and my shop paid me what Chiltons said no matter how long it took. I could work 10 hours some days and get paid for 20. I loved it as a tech but it is kinda sketchy. Billing actual hours (rounded up of course) is the way to run a business for sure.
Love the vids. Please keep it up.
that's how you make $ getting paid rate! by leaning the short cuts, theirs no over time in the shop..
I disagree. I don’t get paid less because i’m better at my job.
It's amazing what can be done when you have the tools you need within arms reach with a lift.
And parts not being rusted and corroded together. Subtract the lift and have some tools....rust is a nightmare. Hell watch southmainauto and you'll see him fight some massive rust on cars from up north in the good ole rust belt.
You're a good man Ray. We need more people like you out there.