COVID-19 Insights: Sweden - Is No Lockdown Working?
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
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. Sweden - Is No Lockdown Working?
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Excerpt
“The authorities and the government stupidly did not believe that the epidemic would reach Sweden at all,” Bo Lundback, professor of epidemiology at the University of Gothenburg, told the outlet.
An interview with a Swedish reporter.
www.npr.org/20...
www.theguardia...
Excerpt
Although the longer-term impact is obviously unknown, Sweden’s strategy is not expected to preserve the country’s economy this year any more than those of countries imposing stricter lockdowns: Magdalena Andersson, the finance minister, said on Wednesday GDP could shrink by 10% this year and unemployment rise to 13.5%.
Tegnell rejected the criticism and disputed the figures on which it was based. He previously said Sweden and its neighbours were on “different places on the curve”, and that Sweden had “unfortunately had a large spread of contagion in care homes for the elderly, something you have not seen in the other Nordic countries”.
The chief epidemiologist has repeatedly stressed that the world is in uncharted territory with the coronavirus, arguing that while Sweden might have more infections in the short term, it will not face the risk of a huge infection increase that many other countries might face once their strict lockdowns are lifted. ...
Disclaimer:
This video is not intended to provide assessment, diagnosis, treatment, or medical advice; it also does not constitute provision of healthcare services. The content provided in this video is for informational and educational purposes only.
Please consult with a physician or healthcare professional regarding any medical or mental health related diagnosis or treatment. No information in this video should ever be considered as a substitute for advice from a healthcare professional. ...
Disclaimer:
This video is not intended to provide assessment, diagnosis, treatment, or medical advice; it also does not constitute provision of healthcare services. The content provided in this video is for informational and educational purposes only.
Please consult with a physician or healthcare professional regarding any medical or mental health related diagnosis or treatment. No information in this video should ever be considered as a substitute for advice from a healthcare professional.
as long as all countries have different testing and death reporting policies it seems completely pointless to compare numbers
...
the numbers are here not to compare but to scare people because they are presented with grim reporter faces and scary frames of people in biohazard suits. Then the vast majority who get their data from TV screens immediately assume that it's very bad and accept house arrest with fines as something normal.
There not great numbers, changing standard, and purposeful inflation, etc. But these are the only numbers we have, and is important to see that Swedish hospitals are not overwhelmed. And we are past peak-week.
@thowa1 Exactly! A "Case Rate" means essentially nothing when it is calculated using one known variable (population) and one completely arbitrary value (positive tests among people who happen to have been tested). The latter is a small percentage of the population, and further skewed by criteria to qualify for a test.
@@jeffh7620 Yes, at best it can show a trend within one country...but even then, growing infections will nor show if testing capacity is already at limit.
Or, in other words: "Voodoo Science"
@@JP-cj2cd And... Understand: THIS VIRUS WILL NEVER DISAPPEAR! Are you going to hide in the basement the rest of your life?
Oh dear....
I first thought you were not serious, but when I realised you were...
Dear sir. I don't know where to start with this video.
- Firstly, we are NOT doing an experiment. We are following all avaiĺable scince regarding epimemiology and pandemics. Anders Tegnell has personal experience from this, spend some time and read his CV...
Thank GOD you confess to not being a statistician or an epidemioligist.
Even if Sweden and Norway are geographically close, it is very hard to make comparisons due to fundamental differences in how the communities are organised and how we behave.
Nursing homes are for example not organised and managed the same way. Deaths in nursing homes are not reported in the same way. In Sweden all deceased with a covid infection are reported. In Norway, only the ones where covid is the confirmed cause of death, are reported.
Also, Sweden do no broad testing. Only the patients who actually contact healthcare and have suspicious symptoms are tested. This makes your comparison of mortality rate dramatically inaccurate.
First case as the starting point is not a good meassure. Case 100 is much better.
A very important fact is that the bulk of the initial infections came from the alps from after the Swedish winter holidays. Stockholm had their week off at the worst possible time. Gothenburg and Malmo had their week earlier and did not get hit at all as hard.
Infection curves are different for many reasons, and the first case recorded makes no sense.
You are also doing fundamental mistakes; unimployment rates are NOT based on the total population of countries; it is the rate compared to the working force: 7,4 % is 330 000 people not 700 000 people !!
Currently, studies conducted both in sweden and in the US show that for each confirmed case, there are in the vicinity 800-900 individuals infected with mild symptoms. Today, there are in access of 11% of the total population of Stockholm confirmed to have had the infection through conducted antibody testing. Beginning of May, this number will be 30%.
The Stockholm healthcare system is having a tough time, but they are managing. For the rest of the country, there has been lots of time to prepare and the infection curves are not at all dramatic.
You say you have a Swedish friend. Please spend some time watching this video to get some sort of insight in the Swedish society and behaviour.
ua-cam.com/video/IoGp9vgeGRc/v-deo.html
Also, there is the World Value Survey, providing some insight in how different values of contries and societies differ and relate to each other.
Map of the World Values:
ua-cam.com/video/ABWYOcru7js/v-deo.html
Website: www.worldvaluessurvey.org/WVSNewsShowMore.jsp?evYEAR=2019&evMONTH=-1
Kind regards!
Brilliant post mate!
"Sweden has admitted its coronavirus immunity predictions were wrong as cases soar across the country" www.businessinsider.com/sweden-herd-immunity-second-wave-coronavirus-cases-hospitalisations-surge-2020-11
Big problem in Sweden is the low level of testing. Therefore case rate is most likely higher in reality. For example compare my country, Ireland. It has done 95k tests for 5m, Sweden 70k for 10m. Case rate understated.
Interesting. Thank you for the input.
Raz Amin they cant go against the state just because of their own self interest.
The rate of the spread is kind of controlled in Sweden. The measures we have works enough for our health care system to cope with the cases. The amount of people that need ICU care has been stable for several weeks now and does not seem to accelerate.
Many deaths has happened in nursing homes and elderly home care. That is a failure.. even though they banned visiting many weeks ago the virus seem to come in via the workers. Many witch do not have a high education and many young people that works by the hour. It's a system failure that goes years back with extensive privatisation and money savings. :(
Still the over all spread is not to fast. We are flattening the curve and keeping the hospitals working even if the nurses and doctors are in a tough situation.
The amount of days in the hospitals here seem to be around 5 days if you look at all hospitalisations. If only looking at the ones that need ICU care it's more. Think around 2-3 weeks and some needs even more.
The amount of reported cases should be looked at with the knowledge that we so far only tested within the health care system. People that need care and workers with symptoms. Also many hospitals have tested in natal care and such.
About 2 weeks ago a survey testing in Stockholm showed that statistically 2.5% of the population in Stockholm had the virus. This tells the epedemiologists they we plobably have around 8-10% today, and if we count those that has already been infected before some areas now should have over 20% that has had the virus.
The speed of the spread doubling can still be seen in our official numbers since the ones that get tested have been about the same.
Now they are expanding tests to other parts as well.. starting to test essential workers even outside hospitals and also much more in elderly care.
We should see higher numbers in a week or two because of that but at the same time no acceleration in deaths or ICU-patiets.
@KELLI2L2
Yes, huge profits made from selling tests; seemingly the test identifies Exosomes (which the body naturally excretes when under stress - similar to cholesterol). Also selling masks, and toxic antibacterials; inducing more and more stress while driving people apart...
Similar to selling condoms to curb supposed HIV transmission by those who have anti-bodies against it. (How bizarre!)
But this is not about the profits; it is about divide and rule and controlling the world's population through fear.
You can’t compare pears with apples. Every country has different ways of counting persons affected of coronavirus. So when you compare Sweden with Norway for example, then you have to know that we are not counting affected persons in the same way.
@Intellectual Trumpster Of course not but when looking at all countries in Europe the mortality rate in Sweden makes no sense. Unlike Beligium, Netherlands, France, Italy and Spain Sweden was never a hotspot.
sweden is the only country to respond and not react to "the virus" with a wholistic, balanced, sane, approach, not just health vs economy but mental health, social anxiety , fear, isolation blah blah
Yeah right and no of deaths is more than countries like India 👍👍
@@mrt8944 But Swedish people will not have to go through the waves that other countries are either meaning one peak instead of many. If you take a basic learning model and compare it to these models you will see that studying something for forty mins and taking twenty minute breaks gives you more peaks and therefore more knowledge is obtained in a single day. Compared to the model for the illness models. More peaks, more opportunities for catching, death, and mental issues. Sweden will also not have do deal with the rising suicide rates of other lockdown countries, less abuse, less of an economic hit, and less depression rates as mental stability becomes an issue due to humans are social creatures in the first place. So many factors that have not been illustrated here that do apply. The unemployment rate everywhere else has skyrocketed and entire countries are having to give people free money so crashes do not happen. That money has to come from somewhere. Nothing is truly free and must be replenished somehow. Having already gone through this Sweden will be better off as they will not suffer waves or as much panic that is to ensue among lockdown countries. Panic also lowers immunity in your body just as much as depression. Chances of getting sick in the first place as well as the ability to fight it off at a cellular level will come into consideration in later models as the "wait and see" will show.
@@31teresahopkins I'm sorry but your views aren't endorsed by medical professionals... 2000 deaths in Sweden while 600 in India a country with huge and dense population and far poorer.. I find the attempts to defend Swedish govt is more political and to be very honest comes out of a pompous and superiority complex rather than facts.Another example would be how india, Africa etc are constantly smeared in western liberal media for attacks on women but the attacks on women in Sweden esp by migrants are conveniently ignored. The same case with covid. I mean the very same media and people praising Sweden have no qualms in criticizing Trump supporters in the USA for not following lockdown. Hypocrisy at its highest
@@rickjordon401 Hey they are Swedes man.. No 1 country, they know everything ..🤣
2000 dead ??? I think 2000 is avarage flu deaths pa as well. obviously there will be more as virus its not over,
Working is relative to whatever it is that you are trying to achieve. I've seen a lot of interviews by Swedish citizens they are in agreement with the current response and value quality of life. So from their perspective, it's working. One 73 year old man continues to golf with his friends, he said he can die for any reason at any time, if it's this, so be it. Seems to be the general attitude there and I think it's a great way to live. No one is stressed. People are going to die, it sucks, but that's how nature works. You do your best to help but you don't ruin the lives of others in the meantime. How many suicides will come from this? How many will lose everything? Probably not many in Sweden. Could be possible that they end up with a million asymptomatic cases and herd immunity. The Swedes are good with the situation, why is anyone else in their business? I wish I was in Sweden, their attitude is as healthy as it gets, stop being so concerned with death and live life like your last moment is now, it very well could be.
The fear induced by controlling populations and robbing them of basic freedoms and livelihood is a crime against humanity.
So you're just saying the national lockdown is useless?, You need to get a brain first, many old people are in danger from the outbreak and it's really vulnerable for them when swedish people refuse to do a social/physical distancing or even wearing mask in public, this will be a disaster for the county if there's no or little resistance to it and many people will die in coming weeks, yes it proves the herd immunity in Sweden fails miserably just look at the death rates is still rising and it's a major concerned for them and they do nothing to save their elderly lives, we must learn from the countries which have been affected so badly by the virus by locking down and give them some rests.
@@racingphoton7655 Just wait for the famine!
@@racingphoton7655 Corona virus orchestrated all of this and you can blame the coming famines and starvation deaths of hundreds of millions of people of Coroni.
The lockdowns have nothing to do with the famines.
@@racingphoton7655 Yes he needs a brain!
Maybe in Sweden there are more people being exposed to low levels of the virus and are developing immunity from low level asymptomatic cases. Then, the next time they come in contact with the virus they only get mild illness because they already had prior exposure and a few memory antibodies and the case would be less survere.
Or they don't test enough. You cannot have double death rate an half of the spread. I assume that health care is similar in Nordic countries
Sweden tests half as much as Denmark, and one third of Norway per capita.
This impacts their case rate.
This impacts their Death rate.
Try to count only the final death/capita. The case numbers are very subjective due to different testing policies of each country.
Agreed. This is why the CFR we calculated are from the confirmed cases. As is calculated by Johns Hopkins.
The confirmed cases are in almost direct connection with the number of tests. If you perform 2x as many tests on the same population, you will get almost 2x as many confirmed cases. This connection is getting weaker once you arrive to 10-15x more tests.
Thus having 2x-3x less tests also mean that it is not useful to compare countries using the confirmed cases. Unless you calculate this 2-3x into your comparison.
And in Denmark only the people dying OF covid is in the statistics. In sweden everybody who died with/of covid are in the numbers. And deaths in nursinghomes are in the swedish stats aswell.
Also how and why you test really matters. So are you testing to protect your health workers, or are you testing to manage the spread, or are you testing for a noddy badge.
@@martinmuller3244 I think they are testing Health-care stuff (They need to work), and also severely ill patients (>10 % of those tested positive, dies). If you won't be in a row with phone line 1177, they will just tell you to stay at home, and you can die next day. On the contrary to other Swedes, commenting on this Video. I believe the death rate of Covid-19 is in Sweden "under-reported". They die, untested, with pneumonia, expelled from the hospital and put in bags marked "diseased". There is a link / photo, in Swedish on m.facebook.com/photo?bid=3137029803052858&set=gm.2615821602019415 but will not disclose now. To be a whistle blower in Sweden, is not what you should do. Anyway, the elderly who are at "homes" are sacrificed, this way, they don't deserve it. This is sad. But I believe the death rates are under reported and we will see how many in more amount, it will statistically. Sorry for my sad message, but the future will tell, as it always does. Truth changes with time.
Greetings from Finland. You have forget one very important factor: how many tests are taken. Policy is very different in every country. Sweden high death rate implies that they do not test much. Probably When you get tested you are already badly sick. There are much more infected people then tested. This Numbers is assumed to be 10 or even 30 times more than actually tested people in Finland. They have done antibodies testing in Stockholm and 11 percent had some antibodies. However, I won’t believe their approach is working. Herd immunity in May? No way, not happening.
If one third of the Stockholm population would be initially immune, does not mean herd immunity. That means two thirds are still seseptable and that's not good enough. Yesterday the message was that the numbers are suggeting a positive trend, but are in no way suggesting herd immunity.
And once again, the strategy is to keep the rate slow in order for healthcare to manage. Herd immunity is the inevitable extrapolation of the pandemic, not the strategy.
BoxCardboard 70 percent is needed at least to herd immunity. And nobody knows how long immunity would last.
@@Sisukkaat Yes, the actual immunity from this particular Corona strain is unknown.
As an example, the SARS (also Corona) result in aproximaltely two years of immunity... But for this one, too early to tell. But no immunity at all, that would be a biological sensation.
Also the actual requirement for herd immunity; there have been estimates of anything from 50 to 70 %, so nobody actually know that one either. It all depend on how contagous it actually is. Measles for example, one of the most contageous deceases we know, require more than 95% for herd immunity. And it is still not 'safe'.
@@boxcardboard5594 SARS should be good initial estimate if you don't have other. But then again in some study antibodies lasted only few weeks with SARS-CoV-2. Here is the clip (starts from the right position): ua-cam.com/video/ylot5uGyyLA/v-deo.html
Sisukkaat Yes, I have seen that clip.
A good attempt to guess something, IMO.
But IF immunity would be that short, there would be massive reinfection, which has not been observed. There are studies suggesting possible reinfection, but those are not confirmed.
Immunity is considered to be close to guaranteed, albeit limited in time. But merely a couple of weeks. Are there any examples at all of any other immunity that limited..?
Since there are no worldwide standard for testing for covid-19, or determining if a particular fatality is due to covid-19, you are most likely comparing apples to oranges. Those statistics are almost useless outside their context.
That just about sums up the farce which covid 19 has become, government created worldwide of course.
There are so many off the planet assumptions ans misconceptions in this video...
What will happen when lockdown is lifted? ua-cam.com/video/Xcm2o9GLfyY/v-deo.html
In comparison: Singapore has 6 mio inhabitants and a very low number of cases and very low mortality but:... they closed their borders very early, they test permanently, everybody is wearing masks, social distancing is law, schools are closed. Thailand has 68 mio inhabitants, Bangkok 8 mio (almost like Sweden or Belgium), there again: borders were closed very early, everybody is wearing masks enforced by strict laws, social distancing by law, free alcohol gel and temperature measuring when you enter public transport, supermarket or a 7/11. Curfew and checkpoints at al roads between the borders of their 72 (!) provinces. Result: 1400 covid-19 documented cases and 40 deaths. My opinion: in South East Asia they have experienced local epidemics before and they know how to act immediately with an efficient response. In the EU and the US they didn’t and Ím afraid they still are not. Fighting a viral pandemic is not something you do leaving it up to the individual to decide how to react (wearing masks, using protective materials as nurses, allowing family to visit 85 year olds in care facilities etc.) Sorry for my long text but I really think that we should take South East Asian countries as an example of how to act.
Very good points. I am sure that there are more factors like temperature, humidity, sunlight, population distributing, etc. Still, fascinating observations that these countries are doing better. Thank you for adding value to the discussion.
@Frankly Frank nonsens. There are a huge differences. China is a dictatorship, of course they can hang locks on peoples doors. Hopefully there are not that many countries.
South Korea have had their fair share of pandemic, and don't want it to happen again. So they had tests and an organisation. They still doesn't have any herd immunity, but not many deaths.
We in EU and USA was not prepared when we got it. Italy ignored the spread. But also has the oldest population and they have a social behaviour that increase the risk of infect elders and was first in Europe. Now they only count corona if they die in hospitals.
In Spain they staff on nursing home just left the elders in their beds. France are total lock down, but still no control.
And England, Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland had authorities that had plans to do like in Sweden. The other got panic. We have some faults, like not properly informed some minorities that have a high part of the death toll, and as discussed, have problems get the virus not entering nursing homes. But we have control over the ICU as now, and still have some reserv, as we have redistributed resources in hospitals. We get payed even if home from day one. You are supposed to work from home, if you can. Elders are supposed to stay home and children should only visit parents and grand parents through phone and video.
USA have ignored the virus, and president demands homage from states to get help. And he ignored it for a really long time. Now blame WHO for not warning them for all the previous Covid-1 to Covid-18, and should have been compared to Covid-19. They are really dangerous to the world.
A little early to be drawing final conclusions, as we're only just seeing countries attempt to exit their lockdown.
BTW, both Singapore and Japan are now seeing cases grow so don't be so sure that they got it right.
@Frankly Frank I did. Nothing changed.
Saying just that there are nothing to learn is small minded.
We can learn a lot by study others.
IF your country will be able to even do what others done is another thing. But you only know it by study and learn from others.
@@peterrobinson6091 of course. Sorry if I was not clear about that.
We really doesn't know much yet. Not if the so called Swedish way may work out ok. Not even the South Korean way. We doesn't know that about any country and how they did. And why they got that outcome.
That are just speculations at this time. We have to wait a year or two before we can start start any real evaluation.
Swede here, yep it's working well. Social distancing is fairly easy to do here. Sooner or later we all get this unless we get vaccines, the primary goal is to not overwhelm the hospitals and get a low rate of spread. The high death rate is largely due to statistical phenomenas. We dont have widespread testing so there is plenty of skew in there.... we basically only test those we have very good reasons to suspect have the virus. But we have more large scale testing on the way to get a grip on the actual spread, and thus get a grip on the problem and how many have developed some sort of immunity.
What is working? Vad funkar?
Compare Sweden with Portugal... same population numbers, totally different approaches.
Also, Portugal population is much older, population density is higher and health care system is worse quality.
And yet, Portugal, is doing considerably better than Sweden...
I hope the low population density of Sweden keeps the infection rates low and all goes well!
@@xouric0 That's partly because there are other factors at play in Portugal, like warmer temperatures and more sun.
I assume these are the antibody tests. Would you have a reference/link for me?
It's not a statistical phenomena at all. It's more than double Denmark and further cases are still increasing. What will happen when lockdown is lifted? ua-cam.com/video/Xcm2o9GLfyY/v-deo.html
There is absolutely no way in hell that Sweden has 12000 cases. More like 500000 up to 1 million...
All of your data assumptions are wrong! Sweden is far ahead of the curve than any other country!
I hope and pray that I am wrong.
@@rvr2174 I would prefer to believe Stanford university research. They wouldnt publish rubbish data just like that :)
@@samihyppia8472 : HOW COULD STANDFORD DO THAT? THEY ARE ALL PUPPETS OF THE GLOBALIST AGENDA.....
Tack för dom orden! Dumheten är monumental...drBeen inräknad.
@@rvr2174 Just shut it dude! Have a look at tonight's Chris Cuomo statement on press.. First estimates show 3 million infected in New York state!
One thing that is big in Sweden and actually helpful to the situation are supermarket delivery systems. We have several services of which you can order products you’d find in supermarkets. Food, bathroom products, even over the counter meds. All can be delivered to your doorstep and that is a huge difference to what I know from my time back in Germany, where you’d need to go to a supermarket to get food. And as every needs to go there, you cannot avoid contact to the outside world there as you can in Sweden.
What will happen when lockdown is lifted? ua-cam.com/video/Xcm2o9GLfyY/v-deo.html
Surely the supposed low infection rate in Sweden is due to low testing levels though ??? Presumably their high death rate (leaving aside nursing home spread) is in part due to a general higher infection level throughout the population??.. Here are some figures below re testing per million population anywag
Figures from Worldometer
15,000 tests per million :Denmark
25,000 tests per million :Norway
7,387 test per million. :Sweden
Even the death rate is not accurate someone died at home is not tested and regarded as suspicious pneumonia still putting body in the same packs as covid but not counting it as covid death
Testing has been a huge bottleneck in Sweden, we didn't have much capacity and ran out of stuff for tracking early on, so focus shifted to just test covid patients in hospitals. It is clear Sweden has a highl evel of infection, as total supression was never the goal here. There was a study of women giving birth, 7% were infected. Some must have had it already, some will have it now. And that was perhaps 2 weeks ago.
There a lot more infected than the tested, only those sick enough to go to hospital gets tested ( and some risk groups)
acetylslicylsyra let’s hope the deaths and permanent health damage won’t be in vain given the high percentage of only partial immunity in those that recover
simuesh very much aware of that. The numerator and denominator are quite some way off
@@acetylslicylsyra
Similar to testing for HIV: Many - if not most - test positive when immune system is challenged; for example when pregnant, have flu or received a flu vaccination. Therefore people move in and out of testing HIV positive. Testing is a waste of time and resources; it also opens the way to force toxic medications on those with no symptoms.
Sweden is pretty socially isolating normally (Sweden Freeze).
But, you said it yourself, Sweden expects people to accept their social responsibility.
The US is incapable of that. While we might have a large group of very socially responsible, ethical, and empathetic people, we also have large groups of seriously arrogant and entitled people who aren't interested in anyone else but themselves and what's in it for them. So, they tend to have a nationalism that is people centric, we have a nationalism that is very self/ego centric.
Got it. Thank you for your input.
@John Sabp No one said they weren't going to increase...save your negativity for something worthwhile.
The US celebrities, politicians, technocrats and the elite (with some exceptions) are prime examples of self serving, ego driven people. I'm not surprised if some of the masses behave this way in the US because of these models.
You are right, in the US our nationalism/patriotism is heavily tilted toward individualism/personal freedom.
I don´t know if you have taken into account that Sweden also report deaths outside hospitals. Very few Countries do that. Almost 40% of the fatality numbers here are from nursery-homes, and homes, rather than hospitals. If you look at Norway, they only report deaths within hospitals. That beeing said, yes, we die more here than other Scandinavian Countries, but what will happen when Denmark, Norway and Finland open up frpm lock-downs now? Another wawe? It´s waaaay to early to say if "our" way is a better one than for example Norway. That will take years to gather information about that.
Also. Compairing numbers with confirmed cases is useless. 13.000 cases in Sweden, thats just wrong. We probably have more than 200.000 Covid-19 cases if we would test people. But we don´t. We only test people within health-care and in Hostpitals. Serious cases that is.
Deaths outside hospitals are reported in Norway as well. www.vg.no/spesial/2020/corona/
Thanks for this analysis. Just on one of your points about the virus being democratic and everyone being equal. That's not exactly true as there are places in the world where people live in slum conditions where 15 people might live in a small make shift house with no ability to practice isolation or social distancing even if they wanted to. I suppose we will never see the true statistics from places like these.
He meant more so that it has caught us with our pants down and exposed every countries flaws. At this moment in time everyone is going through the same uncertainty and fear that a pandemic will bring. The rich are experiencing what it feels like to live upper middle class since their residual incomes (stocks, investments, the blood sweat & tears of the poor people,etc.) have dried up. They’re in fear they may have to liquidate some assets to keep up with their current lifestyles. They’re not missing meals yet but for a well off person, that’s enough to cause some anxiety.
Deaths /1M population: Sweden 132, Denmark 55, Norway 28, Iceland 23, Finland 14. The case rate depends on the extent of testing; tests /1M: Sweden 7,387, Denmark 14,223, Norway 24,664, Iceland 111.955, Finland 8,970. The number of undiagnosed cases could be 2x or 3x higher than their nominal case rate. I was born in Sweden and I love the place, but I'm concerned for my relatives there and surprised that the usually rational and humane Swedes are taking this cavalier approach.
Norway doesn't count deaths the same way as Sweden. (Probably Denmark as well)... But either way, many more cases is likely a good thing. Means that most cases are not severe, more people are immune and the death rate is much lower than previously thought. Unless you have an underlying condition there is no reason to be concerned.
@@ssiipp7848 No need to be concerned unless you care about passing it to vulnerable people. Some really do not care.
@@loverainthunder Crap. Forgot to write "unless" you know someone with an underlying illnes as well. My bad.
Obviously, if you have an underlying illnes you shouldn't go out. Hence that I wrote "know".
@@ssiipp7848 Okay, I understand.
@@ssiipp7848 You don't seem to get the concept of presymptomatic infectivity, which is what makes covid-19 so much more dangerous than SARS-1, MERS, H1N1 and Ebola. You don't have to know someone to pass it on: it can be picked up from infected surfaces, so you turn a doorknob and the next 5 people who touch it get infected. Someone sneezes and the smallest droplets form an aerosol that can hang in the air for hours. With every breath you exhale moisture, and anyone nearby can pick it up. You also don't seem to understand exponential growth. "Many more cases likely a good thing". Some more stats on Sweden: of closed cases, 74% deaths, 26% recovered. Deaths to date: 1,540. All who have died were infected at least a week ago, when there were 10,483 total reported cases, an apparent mortality of 15%. If the WHO estimate of 3,5%, is correct, that would indicate that reported cases are only 1/4 of all infected persons, thus the 14385 cases reported to date mean about 42000 people who are infected and either show no symptoms or have mild symptoms and don't go and get tested. All of them are infective, and without social distancing they would each infect numerous others, leading to uncontrolled exponential growth. "Norway doesn't count deaths the same way as Sweden" - sound like a rationalization off the top of your head. Please try to understand that this is not a political issue, much as the anti-quarantiners try to make it one. You yourself could be infective without knowing it, and trigger a chain reaction that could cause the deaths of numerous complete strangers.
So far so good, no more killed then by traffic and smoking. And it’s no experiment, anything we do must be based on science, not on guessing and conjecture...
Those deaths are preventable however so why the high rates?
@Laika24102007 I don't know where I said it must be based on science? I did say evidence based. So based on reliable evidence that something will or won't happen. Not all researchers are scientists.
Herd immunity makes sense if 85% who get the virus wont get very ill. It must happen anyway. Nobody can wait a year or two for a vaccine. That's not realistic. Theres very effective treatments that work very quickly and effectively curing BEFORE the need for ventilators. Much better way to go about things
In addition, if you keep the world in lockdown until a vaccine is developed, you put way too much power into the hands of big pharma. Why do you think Bill Gates is all over the TV saying we can't leave out homes until people like him and his vacine company comes up with a cure!
The only way forward. Hiding in the basement is a very strange solution...
Take note that you don't hear of any statistical increases in deaths of market workers and medical workers, who are not social distancing. If social distancing was really working you would expect to hear about huge surges in deaths from these workers, but that's not the case.
Interesting. Thank you for adding your input.
Huge props to Sweden for refusing to buy into the hype. This Panicdemic and the worlds response to it will go down as the greatest folly in human history.
Coronavirus=Biggest hoax in human history!
Since you do not know how many people in a population have been or are infected, you can't know the "death rate." If more people have it, then death rate will be much lower, so we need to determine how many actually have antibodies. To do that, you need good representative sample, then test. That will give you your actual death rate.
Higher death rate without overwhelmed hospitals = insufficient testing
than no testing then ? 🤔
For these statistics Sweden only did testing on patients at hospitals. They have just recently started to do testing on non-symptomatic health care workers as well.
I guess they are doing good... Anyway Rt PCR test kits are flawed....
Imho, nothing to do with insufficient testing. Purpose of testing is to diagnose and treat the ailment.
Why? Please explain...if you can!
Sweden has a marginally higher urban density than UK , has less deaths per million and less cases per million than UK ( as of 24-04-2020 ). In addition , Sweden counts care home deaths where as UK does not. You can call Sweden an experiment if you wish but I would say that its policy is a good thing as it may show that a less stringent lock-down makes sense.
I can see why Sweden is against social distancing. If I lived in a country with hot blonde girls like Sweden, I wouldn't want to social distance either.
😀
Currently Sweden"s death rate per 1million is higher than the US. The US is currently 105 and Sweden is 139. I'm not sure what you can make of their strategy at this point as there are so many variables. If you look at their neighbors (Norway is 29, Finland 15, Netherlands 202, Estonia 29). At the end of the day isn't or shouldn't it be about how many people survive the pandemic.
And if you look at my house the death rate is zero but in Stockholm much more. Death rate in a country is a number that can be used for the Guvernement for planing resources . we have a lot of places in Sweden without any infection. We are a small country, and the Stockholm-area contain 1/10 of Sweden population.
@@magnusemilsson7205
The highest rate of illness in places with greater exposure to EMF's ?
When you double the population, the rates will stay the same. The total infected and total deaths would double, if there were a linear relationship, but the rate stays the same. Pretty big oversight in presenting the analysis.
This is comparing apples and oranges. How much testing, how accurate it is, how deaths are reported, how well prepared healthcare systems are. The initial wave of deaths versus the long, drawn out version with economic hurt that the population, not governments, pay for. The UK for one is shitting itself as a result of years of starving the NHS. Now we are in full panic mode and can't even get PPE for front line staff, who we can't afford to have dropping like flies because of understaffing in the first place, nor do we have sufficient manufacturing capacity to produce it because we buy all that stuff from the lowest bidder, usually China or India. Even Joe Thicko has learned not to buy eBay shit from China, but European governments are so desperate they bought a tonne of it only to find - surprise! - it's shit (at least the shit arrived) and red tape makes it more expensive to return, so you bin it only for it to be recycled... in China. Sweden has a fighting chance with its strategy because it's not as stupid as most of the rest of us. Go Sweden!
Really interesting debate. Unfortunately most Western advanced countries where slow react. In some ways I admire Sweden just trying something different, but case fatality is to be of a problem. For me the best approach has been South Korea which acted with so much speed. Tested who they needed to Test. Really efficient contact tracing Not locking down there whole economy but areas that they needed to lock down they did. Also Taiwan have done a very good job as well.
@Thomas Karlsson easy to know after. But the data then did not gave then any other to say. Later a plane from china with Swedish citizen was quarantained.
If we close the schools we WILL get an overloaded health care system. And children do get the corona virus but without the problems older get.
And the authority of nursing homes for elderly are of regions, not FHM, as you suggest.
I suggest you take a look at the facts before you make a fool out of yourself. Yes, there are reasons to be critical to some of the actions from FHM, but not the one you claim.
@Thomas Karlsson From reading your post I don't actually believe you've got a proper education as epidemiologist or virologist.
S.Korea got lucky there's a private biotech firm in Seoul that made and manufacturers test kit v early, the govt bought from the firm and was able to mass test and they also have a huge army reserve, enough manpower to draft to do contact tracing. Taiwan has 800k migrant workers in the Mainland, they're always cautious so as early as December they were already screening at the airport. Very low infection within Taiwan because they control people coming in
New Zealand aren't doing too bad either.
Taiwan is an island...S. Korea too...in a way. Makes everything much easier to controll.
Good smart populations is also a huge factor.
But...with no vaccine in sight...what do you do? Close down borders for a year or two?
Even more important is that even death count is so different... its not possible to compare death tolls. UK and Italy and several other countries do not count deaths in nursing homes. Sweden do.
As a clarification, I would like to say that Sweden is one of if not THE most precise when it comes to counting the number of deaths linked to the COVID-19 pandemic. it's difficult for bigger countries to count death that didn't take place in the hospitals, something that Sweden does very well. The death rate in those bigger countries and also in some Scandinavian ones is most likely much higher than the statistics can provide. In addition, the patients are also examined in Sweden so that the cause of death can be clarified. Whit that being said, Swedens approach is much more fitted for a long term altercation, their daily life doesn't change that much which makes their strategy better in the long term. IF a second wave comes, Sweden can stay fairly stable without drastic changes to the system. On the other hand, in countries that have a full lockdown, nobody is immune to a second wave which can potentially result in a second MUCH Larger outbreak with fare mot deaths than in this one, also nither the economy or the people will be all that happy if a second lockdown is enforced a few months from now. just imagine, finally being free just to do it all together again, I think there's a limit to how much people are willing to comply, but only the future can tell. Nice video though !!! :)
I must say Sweden is looking far ahead than most countries . Only time will tell who's approach was better . But Sweden is definitely well poised for that.
Yes, here in Sweden we include Covid-19 death in nursing homes. Some other countries do not do that.
Here is an article (in Swedish, use google translate if necessary) sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=83&artikel=7453068
In the number you can also make the conclusion that swedes more likely die of corona......... ????
And we are in different phases. You can not look att the first case, it could be one singe person that has not infected anyone. You must look when it become a pandemic to decide the start point in the comparison.
We will later have other number when (or if) we start to do screening tests of the population.
The future will tell,
We had 185 more deaths reported today (more than the total Norway has up until now). We now have 1765 deaths.
Also, bars are still open; NOT closed. You just can't eat/drink at the bar, you can order at the bar and go to a table.
Our case rate looks as good as it does because we don't test properly. It's that simple. Our death rate looks as bad as it does, because we don't test properly, and haven't attempted to curtail the spread of the virus.
Since March 12th, you cannot be tested for COVID-19 in Sweden unless you are in hospital and in a high risk group. The majority of testing (the little there is) is reserved for health workers, police, care workers, etc.
My friend returned to Sweden from Italy on March 8th, asked to be tested at several places and was turned down.
The only reason our official confirmed infections look so "good", is because we aren't testing most people, even those with symptoms, even those visiting high risk areas. This is also why our death rate seems so high; we actually have far more infected that would make the death rate look lower (but we do have a LOT more infected than our neighbors).
They won't "stop this experiment". Both Anders Tegnell, the epidemiologist, and Stefan Löfven, the prime minister, have been priming the public for weeks to let this run the course and not question how it's going. I'm not exagerating. Last week, Löfven gave an interview with Aftonbladet where he said the public should refrain from analyzing the government's strategy and wait until the crisis is over. Similarly, Tegnell said this week that it won't be possible to tell which countries had it wrong and which had it right until 6 months from now. These people have been preemptively preparing their defense and exclusion from the wave of growing scrutiny.
When it all comes down to it, this strategy is championed for two reasons in my opinion: a naive religious believe in altruism, and that it's all that is needed to make people behave and hold society together (it's the same misguided thinking that turned cities into ghettos from the migrant crisis). The second reason being that our entire economic structure is based on the exorbitant taxes to fund the welfare state. I think a lot of politicians and leaders have realized how fragile this house of cards is and how quickly it will all come tumbling down if we can't keep the money pouring in from taxes.
You are correct, that maybe in the long run, this approach could be better in the sense that society has then built up herd immunity, while others are sitting ducks. However, this ignores the important point that many other leaders have tried to make in that this wait is not intended to be forever: it's to buy time while sufficient vaccine(s) become available. So by that reasoning, you wouldn't need natural herd immunity, because you'd have chemical immunity in the form of an injection, where as a society that just said "bring it on" may be wasting the lives of its people if one becomes readily available in the near future.
As Sweden only tests admitted patients and high-risk groups the "Death Rate" estimate calculated from the testing data is ridiculously biased. Extrapolating from that variable is absolutely pointless. You can demonstrate the bias easily by instead using the testing data to estimate the "Total Cases" variable: 10086703 people * (14385 positives - 1540deaths)/(74 600 tests - 1540 deaths) ~= 1773388 non-lethal cases in the population! . (Yes, testing in Sweden is quite abysmal.)
Using that value the "Death Rate" estimate shrinks to 1540/(1773388+1540) ~= 0.087%. This exercise is just to show we aren't dealing with anything close to a representative sample in the testing. The true value as of today is in between the 0.087% and 10.63% figures. Based on most statistical modeling of likely infected combined with the fact that the total number of deaths in Sweden, as of April 9th (next report should be out April 20), didn't indicate the presence of unrecorded deaths as the excess deaths matched the Covid-19 deaths very closely, I dare go one step further. The true death rate is probably closer to the lower number, even using a log-10 scale.
Riktigt jävla korkat av drbeen. Exvis säger han att 5% kommer bli allvarligt sjuka. Finns ju inga siffror att basera det på. Besviken på hur korkat allt är...
Yes, and that's what the Doctor who commented above pointed out. And your calculations on the death rate are correct.
Dr, the death rate in Sweden is high compared to its neighbors yes, now that the neighboring countries are opening up they may reach same death rate roughly in the end. Plus countries like Norway isn't counting all deaths due to Covid-19 for ex. the ones that died in care homes.
I would like to quote and re-iterate two points made earlier by Sweden's Dr. Kadir, which seemed to me to be glaringly obvious omissions in your video:
1) "the statistics in Sweden are skewed to have a higher mortality rate because we only test people who are admitted into the hospital or high risk patients. We dont test people with mild to medium symptoms." 2)" Everybody who has a positive PCR test and die gets counted to the death toll. So for example: If someone gets posivite PCR test and then dies from a myocardial infarction it will still count as a COVID-19 death." This kind of counting artificially elevates the death rate, and creates Panic. I think, if your are presenting a statistical discussion, these topics should have been included in your video.
This is the practice of counting everywhere. WHO's guidelines are to test those that are a 'suspected case'. Which leaves out mild cases as well. Same is true for hospitalization. Anyways. Thank you for adding value. Stay safe.
You are right. I think germanys approach to counting deaths is better. Less panic for ots citizens.
Unfortunately, your figures are a little misguided here. With all due respect, there are many idiosyncratic factors that must be taken into account when comparing these statistics. For example, the chief epidemiologist in Sweden has admitted that the way Sweden organized its retirement homes was to blame for the high mortality rate. He pointed out that in Sweden there are hundreds of patients in each of its nursing homes. In Finland or Norway, there are much smaller numbers of patients in their homes. As a result, the virus was able to take hold with a lot more impact in Sweden because the high concentration of older people in localized settings facilitated the spread of the virus in this most vulnerable sector of the community. He blames the high death rate on the fact that they did not isolate and protect their older citizens soon enough. Local factors like these can really skew statistical analyses. In Britain, deaths from the virus in nursing homes are being radically under-reported. So comparative analyses are difficult to validate. Also, secondary waves of the virus are inevitable as restrictions are lifted, meaning that many people currently protected will undoubtedly die when they are exposed. Every country is doing its best to slow down the spread of the virus. Unless a vaccine is developed, everyone will eventually be exposed to the virus anyway. The Swedish system seems more heartless in that it is accepting that more people will die sooner, even though a similar number will eventually die overall.
The question is, what are we prepared to pay in order to slow down the spread of the virus? What does it mean to lose our democracy, freedom and liberty? The widespread, global economic downturn is going to kill many people as well, through poorer systems of healthcare, poorer education sectors, poorer access to healthy and nutritious food. What future progress is now lost forever? Also, if the world needs to respond quickly and radically to an environmental disaster, at some time in the future, we may not be in a position to pay for swift and effective action. The ramifications of draconian social restrictions might cost a lot more than we think. It is worth considering that the freedoms we enjoy were very bitterly fought for, and hard won. We lose these at our peril. There are as yet no real experts on how this whole pandemic will play out. It might be that Sweden has made an incalculable error in judgement in the way it is handling this epidemic. But I think that we should pause before being overly critical of their approach. They might very well be doing the right thing. In any case, they are adding to our knowledge of how to deal with similar pandemics in the future. Oh BTW, this is worth considering: what if a new virus were to pop up tomorrow? Or in 8 months' time. Will we have any energy left to deal with it?
The best Country to respond to this virus is TAIWAN!!! They're doing everything right, even donating masks. Wow! I truly admire them. Good for that COUNTRY. I'm even watching Taiwanese baseball!
that SOB of the so called "country" withheld masks produced for singapore during jan 2020. "Errrrr"
If you speak with people in Sweden people are working from home, only primary schools, grocery stores and essential small shops open. It's not really herd immunity now. perhaps it was a month ago. I don't see how they are going to achieve herd immunity by May.
That's good to hear. Wise people.
mostly the retarded youth hanging at trendy bar's and coffee shops
Taiwan for the win! I think its because of testing, masks, social distancing and the fact that Taiwan saw what was going on in China back in December/January and closed off their flights from there. They're smart cookies, so to speak.
I, Jupiter still doesn’t make them immune does it?
Isn’t that the end goal?
Or close of boarders and live a life of mask, distancing and lockdowns?
@@donranasinghe1416 end goal is treatment or vaccine. Taiwan is doing best because they aren't part of WHO and didn't follow WHO's advice...
Dustie okay well looks like we will be waiting a while 🤷🏽♂️
@@Dustie1984
The WHO - owned by BG - will certainly advise to vaccinate.
They have history 1st hand.
Here in Sweden testing is lagging behind by far. They test about 300.000 people per week in Germany, while in Sweden, we have tested roughly 70k people (according to the Folkhälsomyndigheten yesterday) in total! Who has symptoms can make a ’self-evaltuation’ online and if you’re not seriously ill and have to go to the hospital, you’re never gonna end up in the statistics at all with the current system. This is also a reason why the death rate looks huge. Of all known (tested) cases, most have serious symptoms to start with. And those will serious symptoms have higher chances to die.
The death rates are different for many reasons. You have to understand that working with elderly here is a low status/wage job and does not require any higher education. This is a problem that is not as evident in normal times since the impact of lesser skilled workers. Also the elderly homes often have hundreds of elderly in the same home, compare to other nordic countries that are commonly a lot smaller.
Thank you for your input and adding value to the discussion.
Let’s review Sweden 6 or 12 months from now. Sweden will have equal, if not better numbers than other countries, without destroying 30-40% of their economy. In addition, You are looking at every data as if they were absolute universal truths that will not change over time. If case rate is low in Sweden why would death rate be 2-5 times higher than other countries, especially given their excellent health care system. In addition, a lockdown will not improve their death rate. The reason why their death rate is so high is because the have not tested broad enough. You can expect their case rate to be 40-80X higher because the have not tested a broader representative population sample.
very difficult to make this sort of comparison, first because you are looking at a data frozen in time and trend is important in the case of NPI usage. We know that the infection rate rises really quick and takes a long time to slow down, hence, might be that this picture is very different in a week. Secondly is how the data is collected and what is considered "infected" as testing is not done is a same way all around. I guess the best thermometer is the change in the overall number of deaths among countries, We need to mind that if the health system colapse the number of deaths will rise substabcially AND we need also mind that those 20% contains people From all adult ages if you believe in only vertical lock down approach.
Yes, and also include the age of the population. We have a lot of old people in Sweden, in the elderly homes there is a lot of 90 and above in age.
Severe lockdown and depression. It is a big problem because depression often causes diseases. And that it is that it will happen in Italy, where many old people had to stay closed at home for 60 days, alone without sons, friends, only watching TV 20 hours a day, listening that they were going to die because of a terrible virus!! Maybe now lockdown is finishing, but fear doesn't finish, depression doesn't finish. In Sweden it will not happen.
Think we can only get a good estimate of success/failure after all this is over. After we need to compare countries TOTAL death rate/year from lets say 2017. Or maybe a year is not enough. Depending on when all countries are back to normal we need to look at the whole lenght of every countris death/quarantien time as well. Will be very interesting to see
EDIT: Will be fun to see if the total death/year is any different from another year, 2017 for example.
lockdown also stops death from seasonal flu and other infectious diseases. Yea, at the end we will all know how we did compared to other countries, but not how it would have been if we went another way.
I'm surprised that Switzerland is not being observed with the same scrutiny as Sweden. Although the lockdown is stricter than in Sweden, that is to say, restaurants are not open and groups larger than 5 people are not allowed, there are nevertheless few of the draconian measures taken by many other countries. There is no police checking people on the streets, individuals have freedom of movement to go shopping, exercise and see each other; funerals can take place with a small number of immediate family members and so on. Taking into account that Switzerland also has a very high rate of infection for its 8M population, that it has a very good testing record and that its slow-down measures also seem to be working, this should be an interesting case study. In the end it is not a question of how many deaths there are, which could be determined by a host of different factors, but rather how the population of each country understands the function of its democracy and how its government should behave towards its people. What appalls me in the manner the US has dealt with this is the political polarisation it has caused. The whole issue seemed to be determined by party politics, whereas in Sweden, Switzerland and several other countries in Europe, politics never entered into it. It was simply a question of finding practical solutions to a threatening health situation.
What will happen when lockdown is lifted? ua-cam.com/video/Xcm2o9GLfyY/v-deo.html
Maybe there is no much difference because all the countries started the lockdown too late
The economic backlash resulting from lockdown will destroy health far more than any virus could have; that besides for the stress induced through mass media; thus suppressing the immune system.
Animals fattened in confined feeding lots get pneumonia; that is why they are given antibiotics.
I count 65 countries with less that 100 cases, many with no deaths. 27 with more than 10,000 cases.
Different testing rates are a factor to be taken into account when comparing death rates. Also, in a population of 10m, if the unemployment rate is 7% it does not mean 700,000 are unemployed as it is the % of the working population and excludes those who cannot work for reasons such as age. Sweden's jobless rate fell to 7.1 percent in March 2020 from 7.7 percent in the same month of the previous year, as the number of unemployed declined by 35 thousand to 389 thousand.
Heinsberg study. 15% of the population infected (260k population), 0.37% fatality.
Hope they stay safe and this approach is a model for others after the lockdown.
Reportedly there are some possible problems with high false positivity of the tests they used in that study. They could've picked up antibodies for other coronaviruses which cause a common cold. The results still need to be confirmed, and we need similar studies from other places and bigger samples. www.bccourier.com/implausible-figures-criticism-of-the-heinsberg-study/
Dietrich Kappe a stanford study was published recently. they estimate 50-80 times the number who got tested had contact or got corona. So it was estimated death rate to about 0.2%
Interestingly, the countries which have controlled the virus spread the best are in F E Asia. Hong Kong, Taiwan, S. Korea...all of which have social distancing, self isolation and mask wearing. Sweden's population is just somewhat higher than that of HK, but the population density in HK is one of the world's highest. No easy answers. We are all going a bit crazy staying home and it's devastating for all economies. But risking a second wave - should it come - would be even more devastating I believe. There is no easy answer here. And there won't be until we have a vaccine. You can't "boost" your immune system...this is a myth..please check that out. You can of course become much healthier, lose weight, stop smoking, exercise...we all know the drill. But for those of us with compromised immune systems due to illness, this virus is a death sentence. Wishing us all well!
Very well said. Stay safe.
Health consequences following this approach could very easily be in vain given immunity questions and permanent damage
Swedish official death rate is over 10 % so far. The German,Swiss,Austrian Taiwanese, Neuseeland etc. Is under 5% so they do something right.
..and the death toll i think is twice the official numbers..Sweden don't test much at all...so many who dies will NOT be registered as death by corona...
I don't understand how would you lockdown a nursinghome?
Prevention plus lockdown. Limited or remote visits. Staff testing. Masks for staff. Prophylaxis for staff. Etc.
Drbeen Medical Lectures visits are highly advised against. It’s thought that the spread has come from the staff who have been low on approved equipment (due to shortages throughout the whole country and because the hospitals are prioritized over the care homes). A large number of staff that work in the homes are also from new immigrant families and communities who have been more likely to get sick due to cultural and economic differences.
@@cendriia3738 this is true, I have worked in a carehome, (still a nurse but in a different place) and one problem I have noticed, and is an ongoing challenge even without covid19, is the shortage of staff what leads to nurses and careworkers having to work where they are needed what leads to the risk of contagion. I luckily have not had to swap workplaces but I have colleagues who had to work in 2-3 different places in a week. And there is just simply not resources or time to test all the workers.
Many countries are lifting restrictions, saying they near the end... But often graphs tell a different story. Some countries, like Australia, NZ and others show marked drop in active cases. NZ has done a lot of random testing, and has found no positive cases. I think NZ will eradicate it, Australia too, but then what? They will have their own "bubble", open borders between each other. Borders will be closed for whole northern hemisphere. It will kill tourism, which is a major earner in NZ. We are still not sure if we can have a vaccine, they don't work on many viruses. If we do, it will change everything.
Why are the charts so different? one thing is that it has been winter in the north, but that is changing now! it is absolutely vital that we wipe it out, here in NZ. Another difference is that we in NZ acted strongly and early, watched the first few cases and traced all infections to the source, apart from very few, most from before lockdown. All this means we know how many active cases we have, most northern
countries do not.
Sweden is more highly evolved!
Swedish guy here.
One problem with the high mortality rate that we have is that COVID have manage to get into alot of
residential homes, and that´s because of alot of our elder are not taking covid seriously and then visited their husbands/wifes at the
residential homes. People up to 40-50yo are very good att social distansing and hygien, but our elders are not. Having a pretty open society we think is better in the long run, many countries who completly shutted down will have a big second wave when they eventually open up, we won´t most likely.
Do you have statistics about how many that died had been vaccinated against flu? In Italy they apparently rolled out a stronger flu vaccine last year - especially targetting the elderly in nursing facilities. The elderly are also heavily medicated. (There is more than 300 medications that inhibits lung function.)
There isn’t a clear picture of immunity for SARS-Cov-2. Is it 2 years like for SARS? A few months like for the coronavirus cold? That’s a big gamble to take.
I agree. Again. Maybe, their approach will offer better results. Interesting to observe.
Hello Dr Been. I'm living in Sweden. I'm working from home. Trying to maintain a maximum of social distance in all public situations. I have a lot of troubles with my "breathing apparatus" since many years back. Constant coughing, p*king up mucus, shortness of breath etc. I have been diagnosed with asthma and have the strongest dose of Bufomix (double purpose medicine). This doesn't help much. This medical condition gives me big trouble with even the common flu.
As I understand the swedish public health authorities (FHM), are almost only testing the critical patients. Those who are in dire need of hostital care with oxygen etc. FHM has started to do random testing on the public now. They have created models saying that there is a vast majority of asymptomatic patients as well as patients who have not been tested but have survived Covid 19 at home, without hospital care. I think they are hoping for/calculating on a total death rate of a maximum 0,4%. This would not add upp to 10,63% or even close. In the following weeks it will be most interesting to see the results from the testing on random subjects of the population. I can only pray that the FHM is correct. Otherwise, we can only hope for a vaccine "in time", before too many people have passed away. I'm used to getting shots in every season against flu and pneumonia. I'm longing for a vaccine for Covid-19. Oxford University seems to think they're on to something :-).
Thank you for your very interesting videos. Even I, a nobody, can at least to some level understand the complex inner workings of our systems that you are explaining.
Thank you for your kind note. Hope you stay safe and healthy. Please continue to isolate till this virus goes away. No need to take any risk please. Praying for you 🙏
@@DrBeenMedicalLectures Thank you, sir. You be careful as well 🙏.
Thank God there is one country who are not behaving like clapping seals over something as silly as the flu.....
I am Swedish and my grandmother told me that the mothers in Sweden put babies outside in sub zero temperature and wrap up well and they are very healthy children. You can see that today when the mothers sit in the coffee shop and the babies happily breathing clean cold air.
No testing, no cases! 😷👍
Good one
@@DrBeenMedicalLectures Look how much has been tested in Sweden (the numbers are NOT per day, they are per WEEK!):
"Under vecka 15 analyserades sammanlagt nästan 19 900 individers prover.
Under vecka 14 analyserades sammanlagt drygt 17 700 individers prover.
Under vecka 13 analyserades sammanlagt drygt 12 300 individers prover.
Under vecka 12 analyserades sammanlagt drygt 10 300 individers prover.
Under vecka 11 analyserades sammanlagt nästan 9 000 individers prover.
Under vecka 10 analyserades sammanlagt drygt 4 300 individers prover."
www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/smittskydd-beredskap/utbrott/aktuella-utbrott/covid-19/bekraftade-fall-i-sverige/
Sweden expand testing every week and even though we have (as most countries) a big number of hidden cases you can see the spread speed as long as the tests are done in the same way. We test all that need hospitalisations and workers with symptoms. The way to see that the spread actually isn't going faster is to look at hospitalisations as well. There the numbers are pretty stable and hasn't gone up much in weeks.
It's not a good situation here but it's not chaos and fast acceleration of cases and hospitalisations. The social distancing and many measures taken here seem to work to slow down the spread.
You are forgetting a very important factor, sweden is currently very very wrong on the numbers, they don't test people or hospitalize people nearly enough
Not hospitalizing enough?
Are you saying people are not being admitted?
India’s approach to COVID-2019 uptill ?
India is run by Dickheads without any planning!!
That's why it's called a third world country
Nursing homes are blocked, no one are allowed to visit elders there, but we have problems hold the corona out of the nursing homes. We have large nursing homes and more unstable staffing. That is a problem.
We have hospitals the help Finland by taking patients
About 20% of intensive cares places are free, and we have not open a military hospital.
Denmark and Norway are starting to open up as Sweden, they start with schools up to 5 years in Denmark, for instance.
And Norway, Denmark, Finland epidemic departments do not agree with their governments. They wanted do the same as we did.
The exponential grow rate are something people don't understand how it work, unless trained in the subject. They think linear growth, and get stuff wrong.
And Finland is a couple of weeks behind the other three in development of the virus-
What will happen when lockdown is lifted? ua-cam.com/video/Xcm2o9GLfyY/v-deo.html
@@TB1M1 good question.
Ask the countries where they have had lock down...
Yes, if it get out of hands, you might need to have lockdowns. When health care system break down.
The Swedish one has not.
Sweden is hedging it’s bets.
Yes. Fascinating experiment.
@@DrBeenMedicalLectures sorry i dont agree ..i think human death risk is not facinating .sadly i feel it reminds me of a NAZI experiment.
You have to remember that not all cases get diagnosed. The vast majority are not. So the death rate is not 10%. Now that serological tests have been done we are starting to see death rates that are well below 0.5% because the actual number of infected people are closer to 1 million right now. Our strategy does not need every case to be identified, and so we don't.
At 73 I am concern about only one person dying. And with that in mind I will take every precaution recommendations I am aware of; and, so should all of us.
Right now science has several questions and few have been answered to date.
Honor those who need to work from home. /Stay home/ Social distant outside/ Mask On/exercise/ Sun/ Good Food/ Fresh air / Charity/ And friendly waves or hellos to everyone we encounter are the keys to combating this tiny monster
Cheers
Very well said. Stay safe and blessed.
Drbeen Medical Lectures you are keeping me well informed and I wish to thank you personally. Best Covid 19 information on UA-cam. Cheers
Thank you so much for your kind note 🙏
Here's in Indonesia with 280 million population first case 2 march until now 18 april only 5000+ cases. No Total lockdown but 50% of activities decreasing. We don't know what we facing. But the people do not agree with total lockdown. Economic is the problem.
Very interesting. How's the death rate?
8.58 death rate and test is 136 per 1 million 🤐
Death rate is high enough. The government is not able to do high acuracy mass test. Unknowing what is exactly number about the cases. The test is just followed history contact with covid19 patients and others critical patients.
@@katarm2958
How much is the death rate usually in other years?
Mass testing needed
Agreed. Antibody testing and nasal swabs. Both.
They are doing that now, 100 000 a week approx.
Did the person who developed the test not say that it cannot be used to test for a virus? How come resources are wasted like this to test if someone's immune system is challenged - similar to testing for HIV; with people moving in and out of testing positive?
It makes little sense even if the test was legit: Test everyone every day or what? Sure way to invoke stress; no wonder exosome production is skyrocketing! 😥
That depends on the objective of testing. A negative virus & antibody test will be largely useless. A positive antibody result is very useful. Of course positive virus test will need medical attention or quarantine
No lockdown would not work in South Africa. People would die in their millions and our health system would be completely overwhelmed. The culture and temperature in Sweden is probably more conducive for no lockdown in Sweden so yeah, I agree with the other commenters. Apples with oranges.
hmmmmm 5:14 some bromance action going on there
Lol. That's why I made sure to qualify the friendship 😀 He is my best friend ❤️
@@DrBeenMedicalLectures I am just kidding of course 😀😀
I know. I sent a screenshot of your comment to Jan 🤣
US has barely tested anyone. Suspected cases I have read about are really much higher. When they test antigens , it is showing many more have had this. That brings the death rate lower.
you cannot change social libtards. I am from Malaysia, none of us could accept these kind of measures to handle COVID-19 outbreak.
We are in such a high alarm state in Malaysia with 84 deaths for 34 million population.
Interesting. What has been your way of containment?
@@DrBeenMedicalLectures
www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/malaysia-arrests-thousands-amid-coronavirus-lockdown
@@DrBeenMedicalLectures en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Malaysia_movement_control_order . Strict Movement control order, Army has been roped in. Since 3 days ago, fines have been increased to 10fold, people are fined 2.5months of salary(RM 10000) AND jailed 1month- 2 years for first offence- going out for non-esentials(i.e.healthcare,banking or food beyond 10km, Jogging and car pooling are not allowed), 3months to 5 years for 2nd offence. Malaysia might be the first country in the world to open 13 new special prisons to confine these offenders adhering to health ministry guideline. Starting in a few days: all those people whom allowed to work in private sector with special permissions need to undergo MANDATORY nasal swab test sponsored by government . We have flattened the curve, now : we are going to hammer it down with massive testing starting from next week.
Clusters with high incidence are put into total lockdown called as enhanced movement control order(guarded by army with fences, food delivered by army/welfare and no movement is allowed) and entire population of the cluster are tested.
It's the FLU!!! Open the economy, Get back to school and work, And take care of the elderly and unhealthy in a safe manner.
The simple question: If this was Ebola would there be a lock down or live and let live? The Ebola killed less people than covid 19--Ebola killed less Swedes than covid 19--would personal responsibility and herd immunity come into place if this was Ebola? I don't think so.
I think Sweden is taking reasonable action for their combination of circumstances. I seriously question statistics coming from all countries for a variety of reasons.
Natural immunity has two advantages:
1. It is thought to last much longer than vaccine induced immunity.
2. It does not carry the risks and downsides of vaccines: ineffective vaccines (ex. pertussis), inadvertent vaccine contaminants, known and intentionally added toxic vaccine constituents (aluminum or mercury compounds), unknown side effects, risks always associated with new drugs, expense, time lag needed for vaccine development, failure in some individuals for immune response to be created.
Acquisition of natural immunity has risks:
1. misery of being sick
2. risk of death or disability
There ARE treatments for this SARS-CoV-2 virus that are being used in various countries by various practitioners: HCQ+Azithro+zinc for the newly infected, IV vitamin C for the more seriously ill. There are additional treatments and prophylaxes that are less well known or in widespread use that are likely to also be effective. I suspect most of the projections re COVID-19 did not take treatments into account.
Death and/or disability is possible from any infection or vaccine. Personally, I would rather assume the risks and potential benefits of natural infection than the known risks and questionable benefits of vaccination.
Look at worldometer to check Sweden’s number of testing. It’s much lower than in Denmark or Norway 7 to 15 or 25. When one doesn’t test one can’t find ...
Why are we not talking about building health resilience and healthy food systems? The Swedish epidemiologist stated they have an issue with elderly care. Also, vaccinated individuals continue to become infected with other diseases. How would it be different here?
Ultimately it's about # of deaths of hospitalizations. If those numbers don't trend way upward to match in comparison to other EU countries, or if they look similar, then these guys are geniuses. But, if they do trend up higher, then this is negligent on a grand scale.
I agree with you. For the time being compared to their neighbors they aren't doing great. But, only time will tell how things pan out. Stay safe. Praying that everyone stays safe.
Also Sweden has universal healthcare - and generally healthier people than the USA - actually most developed countries have healthier people than the USA. But ultimately the testing and numbers are not being determined the sane as other countries. So not comparing apples to apples
Mahamed Kadir thank you for your explanation. Agreed with you. Here in the Philippines thousands of people were arrested and several were killed because of the lockdown.
The case rate is likely low in Sweden because they are not aggressively testing. The death rate is harder to hide when you put your head in the sand. That's my guess. If I were responsible for their approach, I would want to report a low case rate and a low death rate, but those bodies are harder to ignore than sick people who recover.
Sweden low case rate is due to low testing result
yup...
Sweden high death rate is due to low test result
@@mssburr Agreed
Time of first case does not have much bearing on the disease curve. Many factors are at play that can move peak infection time forward and backward. Perhaps Dr. Tegnell is correct.
I am against lockdown and hand washing, eighty percent will have very mild symptom and does not require medical attention, although India had implemented lockdown,
Interesting point of view. Why no hand washing?
@@DrBeenMedicalLectures Washing hands ten times a day is making my hand infected
@@DrBeenMedicalLectures Focus should be on improving immunity to get rid of existing disease and all future disease, even if it's needs eight hours of sleep, reduce tension that is better than wearing mask in such a hot humid environment in India Kolkata, washing hands ten times,
@@deepakkumr
Thank you for pointing this out! The anti-septic spray our hands are now constantly subjected to kills the good bacteria which is protective towards immunity; the toxins also stresses the body out with result exosome production, which is probably mistaken to be a C virus as Dr.Kaufman suggested:
Watch "Dr Andrew Kaufman Rejecting CoronaVirus" on UA-cam
ua-cam.com/video/BzRbq9XJ7mA/v-deo.html
Please report about India's experience with Polio vaccine?
This virus likes to play invisible tag with us !! So just let it play out its not gonna be leaving any time soon !!
You are correct
I also want to see if Sweden's way will work. Let's come back and see some updates in two weeks' time.
Im just curious maybe someone can answer , but wouldnt you expect the rate of infection to be much higher ( we know it is ) and shouldnt there be more death than 14/1500 . Death rates mean nothing when you dont have a total number of infections. Its been 3 months since first case , no lockdown , so either its not as contagious and lethal as reported or many many people have it and it is still not as lethal. Anyone ?
Santa Clara county did a study. They found about 3% had antibodies. We are under lockdown though. Netherlands did a study on 10,000 blood samples. They also found 3% had antibodies. I suspect Sweden will have a higher percentage of seroconverted people. Which will be a good news.
@@DrBeenMedicalLectures thank you for the reply
Pleasure
Its nice to get alittle good news 👍
Yes it is 😀
We should learn from Sweden, most lockdown countries are now showing cases of depression and stress people commit suicide due to job loses and stressing about other things, we forgot about people with heart attacks and suffering about anxiety by keeping people locked down you just causing extreme suicidal missions
Sweden is not reporting case rates or death rates in a consistent manner nor are they testing in consistent way as other countries. This arises in a 'herd innoculation' methodology because testing is only performed on serious symptomatic cases & deaths are assigned to underlying conditions at a higher rate thereby under reporting both covid death rates & case rates.
I have learned that Sweeden has a national institution for delivering meals for free, twice a day ( lunch/dinner) , for elderly people living in their homes : We may admit that this could have been a significante factor for the hight level of contamination of this populacional segment .
Yes and nobody wears protective gear. In addition to that , a huge part of the work force lack relevant education/training.
There's no oxygen at care homes in Sweden so when people sick in corona has problem breathing, they're given morphine. With simple oxygen treatment many of them would survive! But Swedes over 80 are not allowed intensive care or even the basic oxygen aid.
Peter W thats not true at all. This is a plan if we run out of space for intensive care. We are far from that situation, the newly opened medical centers stands empty as it is now.
Louis Pasteur's deathbed words: "Bernard was right, the pathogen is nothing; the terrain is everything."
@@m8nstret what's not true? That care homes can't give oxygen? That even officials have said that the employees under undertrained?
There are even official videos saying give morphine. Nothing about hospital treatment or anything else. Doctors have reacted because of that. Check out Dr whistleblower
The centers are empty because people are refused help there. Over 100 die per day of course there is need for care.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but how accurate are those rates really?
No one can really tell how many that have been contaminated already. No testing has been done, only on hospital stuff and a few more
So my guess is that the spread and death rate differs a lot from what is given
That guess of 500,000 deaths to achieve herd immunity is totally wrong since a large % (likely > 80%) of people infected will be asymptomatic while for the remaining 15-18% the 10% death will come out to apprix 9000, if that. And they say asymptomatics are 10times the reported cases then the number of deaths would be even less than 9000
The issue is Stockholm. Half of all infected and dead are in the Stockholm region. Compare it to the second largest city, Gothenburg and the region it is part of, Västra Götaland; 1300 infected and 75 dead. Population in Västra Götaland is 1.7 million, out of which 600,000 live in Gothenburg.
So something is not working in Stockholm that seems to be working in the rest of the country. So far.
One explenation is that the virus has managed to enter nursing homes.
A third of our deaths are in nursing homes, I forgot to add
Another example is Östergötland, a region of 460,000 people; 1100 infected and 60 dead.
Uppsala region has 380,000 people. 580 infected and 40 dead.
Stockholm stands out with over 800 dead among 2.3 million people in the region
Brilliant Video! We are grateful for your perception.
Thank you
Norway's first Covid-19 case was in late February, not late January.
Sweden is test much less than Denmark, Norway, or Germany, hence the spread rate statistic underestimates the number of people who are infected. This would explain the higher number of deaths. The lockdown in Denmark, Norway, and Finland is reducing the spread rate. The partial lockdown in Sweden according to mobile phone date is working up to a point. However, cafe's and pubs in the big cities are full.
i think death rate is a good indicator of how underdetected a country's cases are. S. Korea with great testing country wide is 2% death rate. If sweden hospitals are not overwhelmed at the moment and the deaths are in alignment with rate of disease, then 2% death rate in Sweden would actually mean 5x more cases but asymptomatic. In NY OB/GYN found of the 300 mothers for delivery, 1% symptomatic at admission, and 14% asymptomatic.