We began this series with the Aftermath of the Battle of Thermopylae: ua-cam.com/video/rTNbZrmnIyc/v-deo.html. Now we plan to follow through the rest of the Greco Persian wars not only to the battle of Plataea but to the entire counteroffensive that would see the Greeks strike back against the east as far away as Egypt. (P.S. the banger of an opening song was "Hide and Seek" by Kodo)
I live in S. Korea and here they always claim that Admiral Yi Sun Sin was the greatest Admiral in history becasue of his victories over the Japanese during the Imjin war.. during these discussions I always bring up that they are overlooking Themistocles and the Battle of Salamis.. @Invicta Please make a video comparing the two to settle this once and for all..
They did not have a choice. Themistocles knew that the Greek fleet could only win at Salamis. Hence he tricked both the Greek generals and also the Persians for the naval combat to take place there. That is awesome. Ingenious.
Once you go to Greece and visit their ancient history and important places... Then you can imagine how that war was. I remember to visit Delphi and the guide was speaking about the history of the place and curiosities and mentally I was finishing all her sentences. Greece, what an amazing country, greetings from Spain.
I can't wait to visit that place.. one day I'll be able to afford it and see all the historic sites of Greece. It's my dream vacation and without a doubt, my most favorite place to learn about. I love the history of this country.
@@josephcosta5382 As a spaniard I found greece realy nice country, amazing food and similar weather as us. The cool thing is that I have greek friends and they follow us (my friends and me) and show us really coool places. I remember to be near a park that has a litttle mountain near the parthenon and we were there drinking local beers up the little mountain and see the parthenon real close to us and athens all illuminated, amazing. Also in mostly every place in athens you can see the parthenon. Ahhhh and dont foprget to visit their super cool beaches (if you go someday to Aegina, visit Sotos grotto, an abandoned pub where you can go and there are not too many people so it is not crowded and you can have a great and relaxing time). I wish you can go there someday!
@@ZDavidH You are talking about "vrachakia". It's a small hill next to Acropolis. It's a rocky place that many of us locals go to mostly during the night, taking drinks with us and watching the beautiful view of Acropolis and the surrounding area filled with lights.
Sea battles always make me wonder how many thousands of men could have been saved had they simply known how to swim. And how terrifying sailing would be without that survival skill.
@@fernandoa589 I think you're over estimating how much armor was used and underestimating the will to live. Difficult but not impossible to swim as the video shows. But even in WW2 soldiers still survived in gear floating in the ocean, well those that undid their helmets before jumping.
@@domobran7 understandable.but the video shows that those that could make it to shore did. From a point of view I was unconscious underwater for a period of time and I can say it's scary. But what would be even more scary is not even knowing how to tread water and sinking like a rock.
My greatest sadness is knowing what will become of Themistocles later; slandered and libeled by jealous political rivals in Athens, eventually being ostracized and exiled totally and then later sentenced to death by the Spartans, being totally betrayed and abandoned by his countrymen. And I suppose that’s where Persia gets it’s redemption in his story. Themistocles flees for his life and ends up presenting himself before Artaxerxes I. That’s right, he flees to the ACHAEMENID EMPIRE, to those who had once been his greatest enemies and offers himself in the service of the Persian Emperor, who treated him with honor and dignity as befitting a worthy opponent. Themistocles never returned to Athens or to Greece as a whole. He was made a regional governor (Satrap) in the empire and died there, as one of them.
@@furryferret8514 The funny thing is that Themistocles wasn’t exactly unique in doing this; several fallen Greek aristocrats found refuge in the Achaemenid Empire after the Greco-Persian Wars were over and, conversely, more than a few exiled Persian Satraps were welcomed into the courts of Corinth, Macedonia, Epirus and so on. Artabazos II for example, finding acceptance in the court of Philip II and becoming friends with the young Alexander, who will later make him Satrap of Bactria after the Achaemenid Empire is fully conquered.
@@54032Zepol The Persians tended to give women more rights too, and in the Bible it’s said that Cyrus the Great, founder of the Achaemenid empire, helped the Jews return back home.
@@54032Zepol In real life the spartan men had very long hair (lower back lenght) like mine. I am a guy by the way. Before battle, Spartan men would take a bath first, then they will brush each others hair so that way if they died, they will die as a clean death. Spartans always had 2 kings ruling at the same time. Spartan women in general were all very rich with wealth because of spartan men low life expectancy. Spartan women could compete in sports, own property and slaves, could divorce and had a lot of power in politics because of their wealth. Spartan women could have sex relations with other women. Spartan women had more privileges than any ancient culture.
The Battle of Salamis is a curious case where the Leadership was the Decisive Factor. Themistocles brilliant deception put the Greeks in the into a corner where they had to fight, and Xerxes in a Position where he wanted to fight as quickly as possible. Genius Leadership like that is what wins Wars. Ironically though, the fates would turn on Themistocles, and he would end up as the Persian's guest in his later years.
@Invicta I live in S. Korea and here they always claim that Admiral Yi Sun Sin was the greatest Admiral in history becasue of his victories over the Japanese during the Imjin war.. during these discussions I always bring up that they are overlooking Themistocles and the Battle of Salamis.. @Invicta Please make a video comparing the two to settle this once and for all..
War is a horror movie, multiplied by many thousands. Young men, loved by their parents and wives, chopped up, beheaded and drowned. Are you SURE you want to see that?
Spartans battling to death: "FOR LEONIDAS' HONOR" Persians battling to death: "FOR CYRUS' LEGACY!!!" Romans founding the Republic: "Damn, creating a democratic system is killing us!" 🥵
@@bluethunder7502 1. They also fought to honor Leonidas. I did not intend to say that they weren't fighting for theirbland. 2. The only id*ot here is you
In the war council the Athenians threatened the Spartans that they would go and settle to Magna Grecia in Italy and leave them alone. Imagine that "what if" scenario. I believe it would lead to a Greek Italiotic naval empire facing the Persians in a war equivalent to the Punic.
@@niccolorichter1488 I checked, Ecnomus 760 ships, 300K+ men; Leyte Gulf 380 ships (both sides), no count on men (Wiki ???), but they don't include transports and support ships in the 1944 numbers, and if i remember correctly, the ship count on Ecnomus was all ships, including the supply and horse ships, i.e. a invasion force just like Leyte Gulf). I bet Ecnomus was largest until Leyte if you include all ships, all men (including invasion troops). If true the record lasted 2300 years which I think is quite impressive for the Romans and Carthaginians of the time, they really, really hated each other :)
Cool video! I wonder if you ever had wanted to make a video of the Greek campaign against Persian Egypt or Corinthians war which lead to a Persian and allied victory.
It is so interesting to read of ancient battles and despite being a paucity of sources that various stories come out of a single event. I have read that the citizens of Athens were evacuated to Euboea, altho the citizens being evacuated to Trozen makes much more sense. That the Spartans only had 16 ships at Salamis which would not be mentioned in most accounts . And surely the Phoenicians and Cypriots would have know how to swim in addition to those citizens of mediatized Greek cities. But in the differences are minor and the overwhelming Greek victory is a solid fact.
I thought the same thing. Only conclusion I came up with was that maybe Economus is in the Classical Era/ Hellenistic Greece and they see it as a separate era from Antiquity/ Classical Greece.
@@MuhammadUsman-mi4jk You may be right, Salamis 480BC, Ecnomus 256 BC, or it may be most forget Ecnomus, because the Roman win was indecisive? I definitely read it was the largest of all time (Ecnomus), until Leyte Gulf 1944. Not sure if that is true or not (sources)
@@3idraven714 I just read a Wikipedia article about Helmut Pemsel’s evaluation for largest naval battle. He has 4 categories: numbers, strategic significance, political significance, and tactical execution. He gives Leyte gulf an 8/9 and first place and Salamis is tied with 5 other battles with 7/9 at 2nd. Ecnomus is not tied with it so according to that scale, Salamis would be the largest naval battle in Antiquity. You definitely are onto something because while Ecnomus involved about 300k men, it didn’t have any significance. As u said, Ecnomus was not really significant politically, strategically, or tactically so Pemel would not consider it a larger battle than Salamis. In terms of numbers though, Ecnomus is definitely the largest in one in ancient times. Edit: His list also says that the Battle of the Aegates that ended the First Punic War is just as significant as Salamis and so more significant than Ecnomus. That’s probably bc of all the strategic and political significance the battle had.
@@MuhammadUsman-mi4jk Thanks for the numbers and the sources! It would make sense, Salamis is a game changer moment in history, and Leyte Gulf, broke the JN (if only on a freak of luck moment at Samar, their plan worked better than they even thought was possible :)
Assuming Herodotus is accurate about Themistocles's actions, I wonder how he would have felt if the Greeks actually _did_ collapse due to infighting and got swiftly beaten in the narrow straits.
It's ironic really. Later greek infighting and political intrigue ended up seeing poor Themistocles totally betrayed and to avoid being executed he had to go to Persia who respected him enough to make him a governor.
@@NewsRedial Wow, you are really smart! I had to go through an entire tome about the most decisive battles of BC Greece to come by this information! You got me there..
"Alien is a movie where nobody listens to the smart woman, and then they all die except for the smart woman and her cat” The Persians should have listened to Artemisia
Excellent video can't wait for the battle of platea and mycale and then the greek offensive under the leadership of Athens. I have read that Themistocles told his servant to go to the Persian camp as a traitor
A significant number of historians have stated that Salamis is one of the most significant battles in human history (though the same is often stated of Marathon). In a more extreme form of this argument, some historians argue that if the Greeks had lost at Salamis, the ensuing conquest of Greece by the Persians would have effectively stifled the growth of Western Civilization as we know it. This view is based on the premise that much of modern Western society, such as philosophy, science, personal freedom and democracy are rooted in the legacy of Ancient Greece. Thus, this school of thought argues that, given the domination of much of modern history by Western Civilization, Persian domination of Greece might have changed the whole trajectory of human history. The celebrated blossoming of hugely influential Athenian culture occurred only after the Persian wars were won.
It's interesting that peresian ships weren't out for sea for a month or so so the hull of the ships weren't clean and were full of sea debris.. Greek ships were out of the sea after the naval battle of artemisium for cleaning the hulls.. This gave a tremendous advantage for greek ships in terms of speed and not tiring the crew to retain speed, it gave a huge advantage and the greek ships could boast a speed 5-8 knots more than the slow heave Persian ships... Also Greek crew slept the night before the Persians waited if Greeks tried to escape...
In fact i believe if we count as largest naval battles the ones with most war ships involved, the battle of Salamis must be the largest in history and Cap Ecnome the second largest. It makes sense since more modern navies prefer quality over quantity.
Thank you for such wonderful recitation of events, Invicta! May we have a list of the music tracks used, specially at the start? It was quite charming.
I'd say now the oracle's prophecy was created as all the other legendary statements were--AFTER the incident. It is a real shame what happened to Themistocles sometime afterwards. He was ostracized and ended up being a Persian satrap at Magnesia in Anatolia and died there in 460BCE.
Oh wow, the segway into the ad was brilliant! Skincare definitely isn't just for women, my husband sneaks in a weekly treatment when he thinks I'm not looking. He'll be getting his own. Excellent video, as always!
The finale was with Alexander the Great!Unit all the Greeks(except the Spartans) under his commands and he destroyed the Persians. He said i will take revenge for what the Persians did to the Greeks. He burned Persepolis to the ground because of what Xerxes did to Athens. Xerxes never imagined how the story will end after the hibris that he maid.
The chills I get from hearing about the charge are crazy. I imagine the Greeks, filled with rage, brotherhood, and strength booming. And then the charge, the feeling they must have felt was amazing and fearful.
@@willtherealgeorgemichaelpl5879 No, assume. Zerxe's lands from which he drew forces from were vastly larger than tiny Greece. Hence more soldiers and ships were available.
@@MitsosMitsos-z8x More, yes. But the numbers the Greek tell about his land army was highly inflated (he may have be able to mobilize so much men but never to lead and feed them), and so it is not that hard to believe that they inflated the number of its ships, too. Say they were 2/3 or half as many as the claims are and it would be still a strong force.
@@marcbartuschka6372 Yes, perhaps, but modern historians have made more accurate estimations about the Persian army. Nevertheless Xerxes' army was the largest to invade Greece, ever. I do not disagree with what you say. Winners are the ones who write history, so I also believe that Greek historians would exaggerate. But it is a fact they were overwhelmingly outnumbered. Ultimately it was the Greece's city states that united under a single cause that saved the day. At 300BCE generally speaking, it was a rarity for any male Greek not to have fought in a war in their whole life. Greeks were warriors, all of them, not just the Spartans. Either they wanted to or not was irrelevant..
“Advance, ye sons of Greece, from thraldom save your country, save your wives, your children save, the temples of your Gods, the sacred tomb where your honour'd ancestors rest; this day the common cause of all, demands your valour”. “Ὦ παῖδες Ἑλλήνων ἴτε, ἐλευθεροῦτε πατρίδ', ἐλευθεροῦτε δὲ παῖδας, γυναῖκας, θεῶν τέ πατρῴων ἕδη, θήκας τε προγόνων· νῦν ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀγών”.
Ionia, Cyprus and many other Greek regions had been conquered by the Persians and were forced to participate against the other Greeks. Themistocles had found a way to communicate with them so that they would not fight bravely against the rest of the Greeks
The Naval Battle of Ecnomus off the coast of Sicily between Rome and the Carthaginians in 256 BC is the largest naval battle in all of history. The Battle of Ecnomus involved 330 Roman triremes, quadriremes, and quinqueremes and 140,000 sailors and marines. Against them were 350 Carthaginian triremes, quadriremes, and quinqueremes and 150,000 sailors. The Roman fleet also included several cavalry transports. Bringing the total fleets of 680 + ships and 290,000 sailors. The Roman Fleet was headed to Africa for an invasion of Carthage. The Carthaginians, descendants of the Phoenicians, were the largest and most powerful naval fleet in the ancient world. Rome didn't have a fleet before the Punic Wars, possessing only a very small, under 20 ship, coast guard. Then a Carthaginian warship trireme was beached on Roman Territory in a storm and Roman Shipwrights took it apart and copied it, greatly aided by Carthage numbering parts and showing how they were connected. Salamis involved 600 - 650 + Greek and Persian ships and 200,000 sailors.
The number of Ships that engaged in both Naval Battles is a matter of debate to this day. However, a significant number of historians have stated that Salamis is one of the most significant battles in human history (though the same is often stated of Marathon). In a more extreme form of this argument, some historians argue that if the Greeks had lost at Salamis, the ensuing conquest of Greece by the Persians would have effectively stifled the growth of Western Civilization as we know it. This view is based on the premise that much of modern Western society, such as philosophy, science, personal freedom and democracy are rooted in the legacy of Ancient Greece. Thus, this school of thought argues that, given the domination of much of modern history by Western Civilization, Persian domination of Greece might have changed the whole trajectory of human history. The celebrated blossoming of hugely influential Athenian culture occurred only after the Persian wars were won.
Whilst most lay observers know the Battle of Thermopylae, in my opinion it is the Battle of Salamis that was the true decisive point in the Grecco-Persian wars. It was here that the Persian campaign to subjugate the Greeks was properly defeated. If you like action, read about Leonidas. If you want to learn lessons from history, study Thermistocles.
Nothing to do with loyalty. Its about impact. Thermistocles showed that a superior Persian force could be defeated with the right tactics, terrain and timing. Eventually stopped Persian westward expansion and allowed the rise of Phillip II/Alexander who would go on to delete the Persian empire.
@@shaivahnparsons3244 No, he made the Greeks fight each other and ally with the Persians, and Macedonia was just a state that belonged to the Persians at that time.
khm... khm... I remember subscribing to your channel some years ago after seeing "the battle of Economus - largest naval battle in history" soooooo.... which is it? 😄
When I was studying world history at the uni, we had to be as unbiased and scientific as possible in our analysis. But I have to say I was always a bit biased towards liking the Greeks in their various wars. They were always relatively outpowered, outnumbered and hilariously squabbling with each other at the same time they were fighting a common enemy, yet so stubborn and ready to go all the way. Such a crazy little (in numbers) nation.
fun fact did you know that the custodes are based on persian immortal guard and magnus the red based on persian king of kings and odin since magnus is half persian as well
See, this problem could've been avoided if the bad captains had just transitioned to live as women, instead of being male captains. Gender problems requires based transgender solutions.
Just a question, to my understanding the battle of cape ecnomus was the largest navel battle(bye combatans) in is history and also happend in antiquity(256 bc).
Leonidas death was truly avenged in the final battle of Platea 1 to 2 years afterwards. The Persian king did not flee after Salamis since he left the majority of his army at biotia under Mardonios. The king himself left to attend to issues in his empire. Mardonios destroyed Athens for a second time, tried to bribe the Athenians, and finally fell in Platea. 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷 HELLAS IS A GIFT FROM THE GODS TO HUMANKIND! DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM, LOGIC, AND ALL WESTERN VIRTUES ARE BORN OF HELLENES. THE WEST IS THE CHILD OF THE HELLENIC CIVILAZATION THAT STOOD HUMANKIND ON ITS FEET! 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
I don't like clickbaits. The largest naval battle in Antiquity(and in all History) was the Battle of Cape Ecnomus, during the 1st Punic War. The Battle of Salamis had, in theory, more vessels. However, it had way less men. And tose vessels were, in average, way smaller than those from Cape Ecnomus. Basically comparing a battle of triremes and small galleys to a battle full of quinquiremes, quadriremes and even hexaremes.
The Battle of Ecnomus Sicily 256 BC between Carthage and Rome was the largest battle in Ancient History and possibly all of history, 680 ships and 290,000 men, with nearly 50,000 dead. The only contender was The Battle of Leyte Gulf between the US Navy and the Japanese Imperial Navy could come closest in almost 400 ships engaged in multiple actions.
Nope, Ecnomus is not the largest naval battle in history, so get serious here and quite the circus. The largest naval battle is indeed Salamis. Ecnomus had far less ships present than the number mentioned in Salamis. You may be foolish enough to try and deny the numbers in Salamis - which only raises the question of why then you would not deny the numbers at Ecnomus. Reality is that Herodotus could never lie on the numbers of Greek ships - these had to be 371, it is not rocket science, everyone in his times knew more or less the rough numbers. And of course it is moronic to imagine that Persians would dare attack in that way in there with anything less than 3 times the numbers. Herodotus mentions Persians having 1200 ships and while it sounds "too much" it is merely 3,5 times the numbers of Greek ships. Now you may claim that Roman and Carthagenian ships were quinquiremes and quadriremes, thus with double crews as compared to the triremes. However even the sheer numbers of the Persian ships alone are enough to surpass the numbers of both Roman and Carthagenian ships in terms of overall manpower on them collectively. And that does not even take into consideration the fact that Herodotus mentioned that Phoenician and Egyptian "triremes" were considerably larger than the Greek ones, hence very possibly these were not normal triremes but rather quadrireme-sized ships. This would raise even further the difference between the size of the fleets and respective manpower for Salamis and Ecnomus. ... and that is not even mentioning the presence of 100s of 1000s of Greeks on the south side and Persians (and vassal Greeks) to the north side of the gulf watching the battle, including of course the very King of Kings Xerxes. Because in the end, people on the shores too participated in the battle by rescuing Greek sailors and butchering up the crews of the Persian ships. Anyhow you see it, either by number of ships or manpower and overall events, the battle of Ecnomus is dwarfed by the massive size of the battle of Salamis. Only fools treat Ecnomus as biggest than Salamis.... the typical Romanophiles, the type of guys who take writers like Livy as "serious sources". They type of guys who think Roman legions could beat Alexander the Great and such... LOL!
@@bkohatlDude, most historians are clueless in such details. They are not military experts. Most military experts consider Salamis, not Ecnomus as the biggest naval battle in history and by far so. Ecnomus had about 700 ships at place. Salamis had more than 1500. There is absolutely no comparison even if you try to account for quinqueremes and such cos still the overall crews at Ecnomus were far less than the overall crews at Salamis - and that does not even include the more than 1 million people watching and more than a 100,000 for sure participating at the end in the collection of Greek sailors from the sea and the "cleaning" of enemy Asiatic crews. People were watching and participating from all around, from Peloponese, from Attica, from Aegina island. The only way to make Ecnomus bigger is by totally disregarding the numbers of the ships at Salamis by calling not just Herodotus but a massive number of ancient Greek writers including Aeschylus who was there fighting all of them liars! People who actually fought the battle and people who wrote their texts knowing they would be read by people who fought there are to be called liars but oh! Polybius! The slave of a Roman aristocrat who gloss-ptainted Romans and who wrote a century and a half later after the events of the battle of Ecnomus were forgotten and with Romans back then still quite low on the literacy rates and with extremely bad record keeping.... oh he is the correct one! LOL! Seriously, you can't make that sh*t up! And guess what... plenty of "serious historians" have done these ridiculous affirmations taking Polybius at face value and rejecting Herodotus => it is called Latinophilia. These are the people who take seriously a clown like Livy (also a guy writing much after the events he describes when nobody lived to counter him). Livy, the guy who claimed Alexander the Great would lose to Republican Roman legions (LOL!). The very guy who has proved that helicopters existed in antiquity! Yes he did so, in his description of the Battle of Cynos Cephalae.... Romans who supposedly "won the battle" (LOL! they had been actually trashed), reached eventually the opposing Greek camp and all by magic found their pro-Roman Greek allies, the Aetolians, already looting it and refusing to give them a penny for having performed so badly in the battle (evidently!)....so for them to be there already they had to use a helicopter to jump straight into the camp. No other explanation since Livy does not tell us anything at all of what they did in the battle and how on earth they reached there first. Also he mentioned there were 2500 Aetolians only so these naughty Aetolians must had been some serious badasses to be able to kick the ass of 25,000 Romans and not give them a penny. LOL! These are the "serious writers", Livy! LOL! Not Herodotus, Aeschylus, Plato, Isocrates, Ctesias etc.... no no.... these are Greeks.... these are liars! Latin? Good! Greek? Liar! LOL and again LOL! Yes, you are that serious my friend. As serious as Livy. LOL! Honestly, sorry for being so sarcastic but you and people like you are indeed very funny. Or just woefully clueless However at some point we need to get serious. Ecnomus was a dwarf battle in comparison to Salamis. Absolutely no comparison.
Wish for GWOT era US military units soon, from regular grunts to seasoned experienced Special Forces/Special Operations Forces operators. BTW maybe the video about Private Military Companies such as US's Backwater & Russia's Wagner Group?
@@InvictaHistory why more fighters? the Persians had hundreds of thousands as did the Greeks You forgot the naval battle at Artemisium a few days ago this one was bigger
I really like your content but this one was a bit off: The graphics especially which show the Persians having the entire northern shore, when in reality the Athenians rushed out to meet them (after fainting retreat so that enough enemy ships would enter the straights first to make their retreat impossible) so that the fleet would stretch from one shore to the other. That was the whole essence of their plan: Fight between the shores, so as to eliminate the enemy's numerical advantage. The way your graphics depict the battle, the obvious question would be "Why didn't the Phoenicians just envelop the Athenians?" Also, given how you generally give an "epic" tone to your videos, it's a missed opportunity that you didn't recite the Greek battle hymn since it was preserved. Generally speaking, as others have also pointed, it is obvious that you relied solely on Herodotus for this video, whereas you could also get some bits of info from Aeschylus, who, if not anything else, fought in the battle himself.
You know there were actually 304 Spartans that fought at Thermopylae but 304 Spartans doesn't roll off the tongue like 300 Spartans does. It was King Leonidas and 3 captains of the guard my two best friends and myself each with 100 men under our command and we were the Kings royal bodyguards and went with him anywhere he went outside of Sparta
"Oh, Sons of Greece! Free your homeland. Free your children, your wives, the temples of your gods and the tombs of your ancestors. Now you are fighting for all you have".
![Battle of Plataea (479 BC)⚔️Fight for the Fate of Greece [Day 1-10] DOCUMENTARY](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gHy9pYHSTXo/mqdefault.jpg)
We began this series with the Aftermath of the Battle of Thermopylae: ua-cam.com/video/rTNbZrmnIyc/v-deo.html. Now we plan to follow through the rest of the Greco Persian wars not only to the battle of Plataea but to the entire counteroffensive that would see the Greeks strike back against the east as far away as Egypt. (P.S. the banger of an opening song was "Hide and Seek" by Kodo)
Nice video
I live in S. Korea and here they always claim that Admiral Yi Sun Sin was the greatest Admiral in history becasue of his victories over the Japanese during the Imjin war.. during these discussions I always bring up that they are overlooking Themistocles and the Battle of Salamis.. @Invicta Please make a video comparing the two to settle this once and for all..
@@12shulax---Kings and Generals made a great video on the Imjin War and I think it's a highly fascinating war to read about.
I like how the Persians cutting off any escape by the Greeks may have inadvertently aided the Greeks by causing them all to agree to fight.
They did not have a choice. Themistocles knew that the Greek fleet could only win at Salamis. Hence he tricked both the Greek generals and also the Persians for the naval combat to take place there. That is awesome. Ingenious.
@@MitsosMitsos-z8x so he is a combined pack of doctor strange and iron man in greek-parsian war!
"Move your soldiers in to a position where there is no escape and they will prefer death to flight"
Divide and conquer would have been a much smarter strategy
Definitely but I swear the Persians kept doing this, but giving the whole Greek world the same ultimatum they united their enemies
Once you go to Greece and visit their ancient history and important places... Then you can imagine how that war was. I remember to visit Delphi and the guide was speaking about the history of the place and curiosities and mentally I was finishing all her sentences. Greece, what an amazing country, greetings from Spain.
Thank you! Right back at you about Spain. Also an amazing country!
I can't wait to visit that place.. one day I'll be able to afford it and see all the historic sites of Greece. It's my dream vacation and without a doubt, my most favorite place to learn about. I love the history of this country.
@@josephcosta5382 As a spaniard I found greece realy nice country, amazing food and similar weather as us. The cool thing is that I have greek friends and they follow us (my friends and me) and show us really coool places. I remember to be near a park that has a litttle mountain near the parthenon and we were there drinking local beers up the little mountain and see the parthenon real close to us and athens all illuminated, amazing. Also in mostly every place in athens you can see the parthenon. Ahhhh and dont foprget to visit their super cool beaches (if you go someday to Aegina, visit Sotos grotto, an abandoned pub where you can go and there are not too many people so it is not crowded and you can have a great and relaxing time). I wish you can go there someday!
@@ZDavidH You are talking about "vrachakia". It's a small hill next to Acropolis. It's a rocky place that many of us locals go to mostly during the night, taking drinks with us and watching the beautiful view of Acropolis and the surrounding area filled with lights.
@@AngryMetalheadOfficial yes! It is an amazing place, I loved that place tbh.
Sea battles always make me wonder how many thousands of men could have been saved had they simply known how to swim. And how terrifying sailing would be without that survival skill.
I mean, even if they did, their armor will weigh them down
@@fernandoa589 I think you're over estimating how much armor was used and underestimating the will to live. Difficult but not impossible to swim as the video shows. But even in WW2 soldiers still survived in gear floating in the ocean, well those that undid their helmets before jumping.
Great white sharks swim the Mediterranean. All that blood would have attracted sharks.
@@tymajenga276 Swim, but for how long? Rescue was difficult, though not as difficult as in the age of sail.
@@domobran7 understandable.but the video shows that those that could make it to shore did. From a point of view I was unconscious underwater for a period of time and I can say it's scary. But what would be even more scary is not even knowing how to tread water and sinking like a rock.
My greatest sadness is knowing what will become of Themistocles later; slandered and libeled by jealous political rivals in Athens, eventually being ostracized and exiled totally and then later sentenced to death by the Spartans, being totally betrayed and abandoned by his countrymen.
And I suppose that’s where Persia gets it’s redemption in his story. Themistocles flees for his life and ends up presenting himself before Artaxerxes I. That’s right, he flees to the ACHAEMENID EMPIRE, to those who had once been his greatest enemies and offers himself in the service of the Persian Emperor, who treated him with honor and dignity as befitting a worthy opponent. Themistocles never returned to Athens or to Greece as a whole. He was made a regional governor (Satrap) in the empire and died there, as one of them.
Great comment! Thank you for the info
@@furryferret8514 The funny thing is that Themistocles wasn’t exactly unique in doing this; several fallen Greek aristocrats found refuge in the Achaemenid Empire after the Greco-Persian Wars were over and, conversely, more than a few exiled Persian Satraps were welcomed into the courts of Corinth, Macedonia, Epirus and so on. Artabazos II for example, finding acceptance in the court of Philip II and becoming friends with the young Alexander, who will later make him Satrap of Bactria after the Achaemenid Empire is fully conquered.
@@54032Zepol
The Persians tended to give women more rights too, and in the Bible it’s said that Cyrus the Great, founder of the Achaemenid empire, helped the Jews return back home.
@@highadmiraljt5853 the only non-Jew to be granted the title of Messiah
@@54032Zepol In real life the spartan men had very long hair (lower back lenght) like mine. I am a guy by the way. Before battle, Spartan men would take a bath first, then they will brush each others hair so that way if they died, they will die as a clean death. Spartans always had 2 kings ruling at the same time. Spartan women in general were all very rich with wealth because of spartan men low life expectancy. Spartan women could compete in sports, own property and slaves, could divorce and had a lot of power in politics because of their wealth. Spartan women could have sex relations with other women. Spartan women had more privileges than any ancient culture.
I've been waiting 3 weeks for another banger from this channel, thank you .
Imo real history is where it is at, not fiction .
got a lot more in the works including some sweet Live History and True Size episodes
I like that how Xerxes The Great got enlightened by the statement of Artemisia. I am always impressed with the Persian army!!!😊
Themistokles and Scipio Africanus. Two men who saved their nations from near destruction only to be sidelined, humiliated and finally driven out.
It happens all the time, it is a pattern we see repeatedly in history.
You only hurt the ones you love at the end 😞
"The wooden wall shall not fail."
The Battle of Salamis is a curious case where the Leadership was the Decisive Factor. Themistocles brilliant deception put the Greeks in the into a corner where they had to fight, and Xerxes in a Position where he wanted to fight as quickly as possible. Genius Leadership like that is what wins Wars. Ironically though, the fates would turn on Themistocles, and he would end up as the Persian's guest in his later years.
How did this video get any thumbs down! It was near flawless...Love both parts!
Decided to take a break from Mobile Suit Gundam, the federation has a battleship called the Salamis- class, wild!
The visuals were particularly good in this video
that was one hellas of a naval battle
I like the bit where Artemisia rams an allied ship and just kinda runs with it.
@Invicta I live in S. Korea and here they always claim that Admiral Yi Sun Sin was the greatest Admiral in history becasue of his victories over the Japanese during the Imjin war.. during these discussions I always bring up that they are overlooking Themistocles and the Battle of Salamis.. @Invicta Please make a video comparing the two to settle this once and for all..
For sure Yi Sun Sin he had way less men and use whirlpools to win like a fucking G
@@Hades_Orkos Admiral Yi also knew the importance of location, location, location.
How I would love to have seen such a battle. Incredible.
War is a horror movie, multiplied by many thousands. Young men, loved by their parents and wives, chopped up, beheaded and drowned. Are you SURE you want to see that?
Spartans battling to death: "FOR LEONIDAS' HONOR"
Persians battling to death: "FOR CYRUS' LEGACY!!!"
Romans founding the Republic: "Damn, creating a democratic system is killing us!" 🥵
Roma Victor! 🎩
the greeks figth and died for the homeland you idiot not for honor
@@bluethunder7502
1. They also fought to honor Leonidas. I did not intend to say that they weren't fighting for theirbland.
2. The only id*ot here is you
Great work, this was really well done and I appreciate the attention paid to the background info here
In the war council the Athenians threatened the Spartans that they would go and settle to Magna Grecia in Italy and leave them alone. Imagine that "what if" scenario. I believe it would lead to a Greek Italiotic naval empire facing the Persians in a war equivalent to the Punic.
Ah yes, the legendary battle of salamies
Great video ! Although I think the title for the largest naval battle of classical antiquity goes to the battle of Ecnomus in The First Punic War
Depends how you count. Ecnomus had more doldiers, but fewer ships, but what do you expect fron a war of puns...?
Isn't Cape Ecnomus the largest naval battle in Antiquity?
I think I read it was largest of all time, until Overlord, Leyte Gulf, Okinawa? I don't know if thats actually a fact.
Most likely yes
But IT does depend on the count
@@niccolorichter1488 I checked, Ecnomus 760 ships, 300K+ men; Leyte Gulf 380 ships (both sides), no count on men (Wiki ???), but they don't include transports and support ships in the 1944 numbers, and if i remember correctly, the ship count on Ecnomus was all ships, including the supply and horse ships, i.e. a invasion force just like Leyte Gulf). I bet Ecnomus was largest until Leyte if you include all ships, all men (including invasion troops). If true the record lasted 2300 years which I think is quite impressive for the Romans and Carthaginians of the time, they really, really hated each other :)
@3 I'd Raven wait but Overlord was a naval operation not a naval battle between navies
@@3idraven714 yes its impressive
Cool video! I wonder if you ever had wanted to make a video of the Greek campaign against Persian Egypt or Corinthians war which lead to a Persian and allied victory.
Great video. Thank you for the history
INVICTA rules the land and sea.
From the Oracle of ME. Thank you all so much.
Amazing as always!
It is so interesting to read of ancient battles and despite being a paucity of sources that various stories come out of a single event. I have read that the citizens of Athens were evacuated to Euboea, altho the citizens being evacuated to Trozen makes much more sense. That the Spartans only had 16 ships at Salamis which would not be mentioned in most accounts . And surely the Phoenicians and Cypriots would have know how to swim in addition to those citizens of mediatized Greek cities. But in the differences are minor and the overwhelming Greek victory is a solid fact.
What a terrific video! ⚔🔥👏
Seen much of the content from the channel, great work.
I thought the largest naval battle in Antiquity was Cape Ecnomus. By the way, great content as always.
I thought the same thing. Only conclusion I came up with was that maybe Economus is in the Classical Era/ Hellenistic Greece and they see it as a separate era from Antiquity/ Classical Greece.
Me too
@@MuhammadUsman-mi4jk You may be right, Salamis 480BC, Ecnomus 256 BC, or it may be most forget Ecnomus, because the Roman win was indecisive? I definitely read it was the largest of all time (Ecnomus), until Leyte Gulf 1944. Not sure if that is true or not (sources)
@@3idraven714 I just read a Wikipedia article about Helmut Pemsel’s evaluation for largest naval battle. He has 4 categories: numbers, strategic significance, political significance, and tactical execution. He gives Leyte gulf an 8/9 and first place and Salamis is tied with 5 other battles with 7/9 at 2nd. Ecnomus is not tied with it so according to that scale, Salamis would be the largest naval battle in Antiquity.
You definitely are onto something because while Ecnomus involved about 300k men, it didn’t have any significance. As u said, Ecnomus was not really significant politically, strategically, or tactically so Pemel would not consider it a larger battle than Salamis. In terms of numbers though, Ecnomus is definitely the largest in one in ancient times.
Edit: His list also says that the Battle of the Aegates that ended the First Punic War is just as significant as Salamis and so more significant than Ecnomus. That’s probably bc of all the strategic and political significance the battle had.
@@MuhammadUsman-mi4jk Thanks for the numbers and the sources! It would make sense, Salamis is a game changer moment in history, and Leyte Gulf, broke the JN (if only on a freak of luck moment at Samar, their plan worked better than they even thought was possible :)
Assuming Herodotus is accurate about Themistocles's actions, I wonder how he would have felt if the Greeks actually _did_ collapse due to infighting and got swiftly beaten in the narrow straits.
bad?
It's ironic really. Later greek infighting and political intrigue ended up seeing poor Themistocles totally betrayed and to avoid being executed he had to go to Persia who respected him enough to make him a governor.
Disappointed.
@@kylepessell1350 Ironic the Persians treat him better than his own people did
@@alex_zetsu Not the Greeks: His opponents.
And Not the Persians: The King of Persia.
That makes a difference.
Damn, I think we need some videos on Atremisia.
Artemisia was Greek by the way.
@@MitsosMitsos-z8x Yeah I got that from her name and the render of her wearing Greek battle dress. Also from wikipedia :)
@@NewsRedial Wow, you are really smart! I had to go through an entire tome about the most decisive battles of BC Greece to come by this information! You got me there..
greatest tactical feat in history, insane clutch, gods smile
Great presentation.
"Alien is a movie where nobody listens to the smart woman, and then they all die except for the smart woman and her cat” The Persians should have listened to Artemisia
Are we going to get an in depth modern view about such topics or will it only be reciting from herotodus from now on?
Excellent video can't wait for the battle of platea and mycale and then the greek offensive under the leadership of Athens. I have read that Themistocles told his servant to go to the Persian camp as a traitor
Love these avenging vids.
A significant number of historians have stated that Salamis is one of the most significant battles in human history (though the same is often stated of Marathon).
In a more extreme form of this argument, some historians argue that if the Greeks had lost at Salamis, the ensuing conquest of Greece by the Persians would have effectively stifled the growth of Western Civilization as we know it.
This view is based on the premise that much of modern Western society, such as philosophy, science, personal freedom and democracy are rooted in the legacy of Ancient Greece. Thus, this school of thought argues that, given the domination of much of modern history by Western Civilization, Persian domination of Greece might have changed the whole trajectory of human history.
The celebrated blossoming of hugely influential Athenian culture occurred only after the Persian wars were won.
It's interesting that peresian ships weren't out for sea for a month or so so the hull of the ships weren't clean and were full of sea debris..
Greek ships were out of the sea after the naval battle of artemisium for cleaning the hulls..
This gave a tremendous advantage for greek ships in terms of speed and not tiring the crew to retain speed, it gave a huge advantage and the greek ships could boast a speed 5-8 knots more than the slow heave Persian ships...
Also Greek crew slept the night before the Persians waited if Greeks tried to escape...
It's crazy that this video was uploaded yesterday because I'm doing an essay and presentation on this period of history this week!
I thought the largest naval battle of anticuity was the battle of Cap Ecnome between Carthage and rome in which 670 war ships were engaged
yeah but salamis lowest estimates are 771 and highest 1585
In fact i believe if we count as largest naval battles the ones with most war ships involved, the battle of Salamis must be the largest in history and Cap Ecnome the second largest. It makes sense since more modern navies prefer quality over quantity.
@@exodiaobliterate4010 Which quality did the Persians win in the war and the Greeks became like Sparta and Athens serving the Persians
@@عليياسر-ذ5ب Greeks had quality and parsians had quantity.
@@Dodlo32888 Sparta betrayed Greece and allied with the Persians
Her speech is pretty detailed considering we’re not 100% on the number of ships even involved.
Thank you for such wonderful recitation of events, Invicta! May we have a list of the music tracks used, specially at the start? It was quite charming.
The opening was "Hide and Seek" by kodo
@@InvictaHistory Thank you!
I'd say now the oracle's prophecy was created as all the other legendary statements were--AFTER the incident. It is a real shame what happened to Themistocles sometime afterwards. He was ostracized and ended up being a Persian satrap at Magnesia in Anatolia and died there in 460BCE.
Oh wow, the segway into the ad was brilliant! Skincare definitely isn't just for women, my husband sneaks in a weekly treatment when he thinks I'm not looking. He'll be getting his own. Excellent video, as always!
The finale was with Alexander the Great!Unit all the Greeks(except the Spartans) under his commands and he destroyed the Persians.
He said i will take revenge for what the Persians did to the Greeks. He burned Persepolis to the ground because of what Xerxes did to Athens.
Xerxes never imagined how the story will end after the hibris that he maid.
Thanks for the video 👍🏻
Imagine soldiers and sailors not knowing how to swim...
Invicta, what about your video on Ecnomus???? D:
Already done
The chills I get from hearing about the charge are crazy. I imagine the Greeks, filled with rage, brotherhood, and strength booming. And then the charge, the feeling they must have felt was amazing and fearful.
Nice episode, and very well told (although I asume Herodot was probably embellishing the whole thing in the greeks favor...).😉
Dont assume
@@willtherealgeorgemichaelpl5879 No, assume. Zerxe's lands from which he drew forces from were vastly larger than tiny Greece. Hence more soldiers and ships were available.
@@MitsosMitsos-z8x More, yes. But the numbers the Greek tell about his land army was highly inflated (he may have be able to mobilize so much men but never to lead and feed them), and so it is not that hard to believe that they inflated the number of its ships, too. Say they were 2/3 or half as many as the claims are and it would be still a strong force.
@@marcbartuschka6372 Yes, perhaps, but modern historians have made more accurate estimations about the Persian army. Nevertheless Xerxes' army was the largest to invade Greece, ever. I do not disagree with what you say. Winners are the ones who write history, so I also believe that Greek historians would exaggerate. But it is a fact they were overwhelmingly outnumbered. Ultimately it was the Greece's city states that united under a single cause that saved the day. At 300BCE generally speaking, it was a rarity for any male Greek not to have fought in a war in their whole life. Greeks were warriors, all of them, not just the Spartans. Either they wanted to or not was irrelevant..
“Advance, ye sons of Greece, from thraldom save your country, save your wives, your children save, the temples of your Gods, the sacred tomb where your honour'd ancestors rest; this day the common cause of all, demands your valour”.
“Ὦ παῖδες Ἑλλήνων ἴτε,
ἐλευθεροῦτε πατρίδ', ἐλευθεροῦτε δὲ
παῖδας, γυναῖκας, θεῶν τέ πατρῴων ἕδη,
θήκας τε προγόνων· νῦν ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀγών”.
Didn't Ionia also fight in this battle aswell? I didn't see their name on the Greek ship list hmm
Ionia, Cyprus and many other Greek regions had been conquered by the Persians and were forced to participate against the other Greeks.
Themistocles had found a way to communicate with them so that they would not fight bravely against the rest of the Greeks
The Naval Battle of Ecnomus off the coast of Sicily between Rome and the Carthaginians in 256 BC is the largest naval battle in all of history. The Battle of Ecnomus involved 330 Roman triremes, quadriremes, and quinqueremes and 140,000 sailors and marines. Against them were 350 Carthaginian triremes, quadriremes, and quinqueremes and 150,000 sailors. The Roman fleet also included several cavalry transports. Bringing the total fleets of 680 + ships and 290,000 sailors. The Roman Fleet was headed to Africa for an invasion of Carthage. The Carthaginians, descendants of the Phoenicians, were the largest and most powerful naval fleet in the ancient world. Rome didn't have a fleet before the Punic Wars, possessing only a very small, under 20 ship, coast guard. Then a Carthaginian warship trireme was beached on Roman Territory in a storm and Roman Shipwrights took it apart and copied it, greatly aided by Carthage numbering parts and showing how they were connected. Salamis involved 600 - 650 + Greek and Persian ships and 200,000 sailors.
Yea yea u Romans always boast of your past, that is Hellenic heritage as well....
The number of Ships that engaged in both Naval Battles is a matter of debate to this day. However, a significant number of historians have stated that Salamis is one of the most significant battles in human history (though the same is often stated of Marathon).
In a more extreme form of this argument, some historians argue that if the Greeks had lost at Salamis, the ensuing conquest of Greece by the Persians would have effectively stifled the growth of Western Civilization as we know it.
This view is based on the premise that much of modern Western society, such as philosophy, science, personal freedom and democracy are rooted in the legacy of Ancient Greece. Thus, this school of thought argues that, given the domination of much of modern history by Western Civilization, Persian domination of Greece might have changed the whole trajectory of human history.
The celebrated blossoming of hugely influential Athenian culture occurred only after the Persian wars were won.
Whilst most lay observers know the Battle of Thermopylae, in my opinion it is the Battle of Salamis that was the true decisive point in the Grecco-Persian wars. It was here that the Persian campaign to subjugate the Greeks was properly defeated. If you like action, read about Leonidas. If you want to learn lessons from history, study Thermistocles.
So how were the Greeks after this war serving the Persians, even the leader of the Greeks in this battle served the Persians? Is this man a traitor?
Nothing to do with loyalty. Its about impact. Thermistocles showed that a superior Persian force could be defeated with the right tactics, terrain and timing. Eventually stopped Persian westward expansion and allowed the rise of Phillip II/Alexander who would go on to delete the Persian empire.
@@shaivahnparsons3244 No, he made the Greeks fight each other and ally with the Persians, and Macedonia was just a state that belonged to the Persians at that time.
What happened to your khazar documentary???
Do you think all the ships would be at the bottom of the sea?
They build bridges over the hellespont ?
Was the battle of Ecnomus not the biggest sea battle?
More combatants, fewer ships....
Wow 😮
You need some sweet background music like epic history
0:33 ... Cat Ears by the Persians confirmed?
khm... khm... I remember subscribing to your channel some years ago after seeing "the battle of Economus - largest naval battle in history" soooooo.... which is it? 😄
Depends which metric you use, ships = salamis, combatants = ecnomus
When I was studying world history at the uni, we had to be as unbiased and scientific as possible in our analysis. But I have to say I was always a bit biased towards liking the Greeks in their various wars. They were always relatively outpowered, outnumbered and hilariously squabbling with each other at the same time they were fighting a common enemy, yet so stubborn and ready to go all the way. Such a crazy little (in numbers) nation.
❤🇬🇷❤🇬🇷❤🇬🇷❤🇬🇷❤🇬🇷❤
First, praise the Omnissiah
fun fact did you know that the custodes are based on persian immortal guard and magnus the red based on persian king of kings and odin since magnus is half persian as well
I thought thr largest battle in all of history was battle of cape ecnomus between carthage and rome during the 1st punic war.
How would history have changed if at the end of the war Greece had been unified in something like a Hellenic League?
They allied themselves with the Persians, they are stupid
Outside voice; This is a really nice in-dept look at a fascinating historical naval battle.
Inside voice; The Battle of Salamis? Sounds like a porno.
Can’t wait for the battle of chorizo next
Invictas actually a very handsome guy lol. Not what i was expecting.
Very relevant to the current culture "My men are becoming women AND my women becoming men" OH OH how did that work out.
ooph, careful with that edge you might cut someone lol
@@InvictaHistory Yes, particularly because those handling that edged mechanism are not smart enough or skilled enough to utilize it.
See, this problem could've been avoided if the bad captains had just transitioned to live as women, instead of being male captains. Gender problems requires based transgender solutions.
The Battle of Salamis: The Most Delicious Battle of Antiquity
Just a question, to my understanding the battle of cape ecnomus was the largest navel battle(bye combatans) in is history and also happend in antiquity(256 bc).
I'd argue this was a bit more "avenging Athens" than Leonidas.
Leonidas death was truly avenged in the final battle of Platea 1 to 2 years afterwards. The Persian king did not flee after Salamis since he left the majority of his army at biotia under Mardonios. The king himself left to attend to issues in his empire. Mardonios destroyed Athens for a second time, tried to bribe the Athenians, and finally fell in Platea.
🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
HELLAS IS A GIFT FROM THE GODS TO HUMANKIND! DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM, LOGIC, AND ALL WESTERN VIRTUES ARE BORN OF HELLENES. THE WEST IS THE CHILD OF THE HELLENIC CIVILAZATION THAT STOOD HUMANKIND ON ITS FEET!
🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
How convenient I’m currently playing through Assassins Creed Odyssey right now.
Did they fight the battle with cured Italian sausages instead of swords?
Wasn't the naval battle of the first punic Wars the biggest naval battle in history?
The battle of cape Ecnomus.
Indeed if you go by number of combatants. Salamis may have had more individual warships
@@InvictaHistory ok. If you look at ir this way, then you're right
Glory to the free Greek warriors
I don't like clickbaits.
The largest naval battle in Antiquity(and in all History) was the Battle of Cape Ecnomus, during the 1st Punic War.
The Battle of Salamis had, in theory, more vessels. However, it had way less men. And tose vessels were, in average, way smaller than those from Cape Ecnomus.
Basically comparing a battle of triremes and small galleys to a battle full of quinquiremes, quadriremes and even hexaremes.
10:23 this does not add up to 378 -_-
It's as reported by Herodotus on both accounts. And indeed they don't quite add up. He has a habit of doing that
some ships defected from the persians. i think he added those too
Nice
Yep, it was Genoa vs. Cotto for all the marbles! 😁👍
The Battle of Ecnomus Sicily 256 BC between Carthage and Rome was the largest battle in Ancient History and possibly all of history, 680 ships and 290,000 men, with nearly 50,000 dead. The only contender was The Battle of Leyte Gulf between the US Navy and the Japanese Imperial Navy could come closest in almost 400 ships engaged in multiple actions.
rror
we have from the sources the fleet of Greeks and Persians
there are over 1000 ships
basically we have two naval battles
the first was a few days ago at Artemisium where the Persian fleet lost 200 ships
Nope, Ecnomus is not the largest naval battle in history, so get serious here and quite the circus. The largest naval battle is indeed Salamis. Ecnomus had far less ships present than the number mentioned in Salamis. You may be foolish enough to try and deny the numbers in Salamis - which only raises the question of why then you would not deny the numbers at Ecnomus. Reality is that Herodotus could never lie on the numbers of Greek ships - these had to be 371, it is not rocket science, everyone in his times knew more or less the rough numbers. And of course it is moronic to imagine that Persians would dare attack in that way in there with anything less than 3 times the numbers. Herodotus mentions Persians having 1200 ships and while it sounds "too much" it is merely 3,5 times the numbers of Greek ships.
Now you may claim that Roman and Carthagenian ships were quinquiremes and quadriremes, thus with double crews as compared to the triremes. However even the sheer numbers of the Persian ships alone are enough to surpass the numbers of both Roman and Carthagenian ships in terms of overall manpower on them collectively. And that does not even take into consideration the fact that Herodotus mentioned that Phoenician and Egyptian "triremes" were considerably larger than the Greek ones, hence very possibly these were not normal triremes but rather quadrireme-sized ships. This would raise even further the difference between the size of the fleets and respective manpower for Salamis and Ecnomus.
... and that is not even mentioning the presence of 100s of 1000s of Greeks on the south side and Persians (and vassal Greeks) to the north side of the gulf watching the battle, including of course the very King of Kings Xerxes. Because in the end, people on the shores too participated in the battle by rescuing Greek sailors and butchering up the crews of the Persian ships.
Anyhow you see it, either by number of ships or manpower and overall events, the battle of Ecnomus is dwarfed by the massive size of the battle of Salamis. Only fools treat Ecnomus as biggest than Salamis.... the typical Romanophiles, the type of guys who take writers like Livy as "serious sources". They type of guys who think Roman legions could beat Alexander the Great and such... LOL!
@@dinos9607 Most historians disagree with you, but you are entitled to your opinion.
@@bkohatlDude, most historians are clueless in such details. They are not military experts. Most military experts consider Salamis, not Ecnomus as the biggest naval battle in history and by far so.
Ecnomus had about 700 ships at place. Salamis had more than 1500. There is absolutely no comparison even if you try to account for quinqueremes and such cos still the overall crews at Ecnomus were far less than the overall crews at Salamis - and that does not even include the more than 1 million people watching and more than a 100,000 for sure participating at the end in the collection of Greek sailors from the sea and the "cleaning" of enemy Asiatic crews. People were watching and participating from all around, from Peloponese, from Attica, from Aegina island. The only way to make Ecnomus bigger is by totally disregarding the numbers of the ships at Salamis by calling not just Herodotus but a massive number of ancient Greek writers including Aeschylus who was there fighting all of them liars! People who actually fought the battle and people who wrote their texts knowing they would be read by people who fought there are to be called liars but oh! Polybius! The slave of a Roman aristocrat who gloss-ptainted Romans and who wrote a century and a half later after the events of the battle of Ecnomus were forgotten and with Romans back then still quite low on the literacy rates and with extremely bad record keeping.... oh he is the correct one! LOL! Seriously, you can't make that sh*t up!
And guess what... plenty of "serious historians" have done these ridiculous affirmations taking Polybius at face value and rejecting Herodotus => it is called Latinophilia. These are the people who take seriously a clown like Livy (also a guy writing much after the events he describes when nobody lived to counter him). Livy, the guy who claimed Alexander the Great would lose to Republican Roman legions (LOL!). The very guy who has proved that helicopters existed in antiquity! Yes he did so, in his description of the Battle of Cynos Cephalae.... Romans who supposedly "won the battle" (LOL! they had been actually trashed), reached eventually the opposing Greek camp and all by magic found their pro-Roman Greek allies, the Aetolians, already looting it and refusing to give them a penny for having performed so badly in the battle (evidently!)....so for them to be there already they had to use a helicopter to jump straight into the camp. No other explanation since Livy does not tell us anything at all of what they did in the battle and how on earth they reached there first. Also he mentioned there were 2500 Aetolians only so these naughty Aetolians must had been some serious badasses to be able to kick the ass of 25,000 Romans and not give them a penny. LOL! These are the "serious writers", Livy! LOL! Not Herodotus, Aeschylus, Plato, Isocrates, Ctesias etc.... no no.... these are Greeks.... these are liars! Latin? Good! Greek? Liar! LOL and again LOL!
Yes, you are that serious my friend. As serious as Livy. LOL! Honestly, sorry for being so sarcastic but you and people like you are indeed very funny. Or just woefully clueless However at some point we need to get serious. Ecnomus was a dwarf battle in comparison to Salamis. Absolutely no comparison.
You should making a series on parthians or sassanids.
We've got an episode on the Sassanid Dailamites in the works
@@InvictaHistory that would've be awesome👍
Wish for GWOT era US military units soon, from regular grunts to seasoned experienced Special Forces/Special Operations Forces operators.
BTW maybe the video about Private Military Companies such as US's Backwater & Russia's Wagner Group?
Interesting.
The beacon of Minas Athens is lit!
Has anyone looked for the wrecks?
The oracle might as well be a general.
The Battle of Cape Ecnomus, 256 BCE between Carthage and rome the largest laval battle in antiquity /
Indeed, it almost definitely had more combatants. Salamis wins the award for most warships.
@@InvictaHistory why more fighters? the Persians had hundreds of thousands as did the Greeks
You forgot the naval battle at Artemisium a few days ago
this one was bigger
Damn Artemisia was not one to mince words
Every sentence of narration a climax must be for gen z.
What
It was the largest naval battle till this point untio Rome and Carthage overtook the title 200 years later
I really like your content but this one was a bit off: The graphics especially which show the Persians having the entire northern shore, when in reality the Athenians rushed out to meet them (after fainting retreat so that enough enemy ships would enter the straights first to make their retreat impossible) so that the fleet would stretch from one shore to the other. That was the whole essence of their plan: Fight between the shores, so as to eliminate the enemy's numerical advantage. The way your graphics depict the battle, the obvious question would be "Why didn't the Phoenicians just envelop the Athenians?" Also, given how you generally give an "epic" tone to your videos, it's a missed opportunity that you didn't recite the Greek battle hymn since it was preserved. Generally speaking, as others have also pointed, it is obvious that you relied solely on Herodotus for this video, whereas you could also get some bits of info from Aeschylus, who, if not anything else, fought in the battle himself.
You know there were actually 304 Spartans that fought at Thermopylae but 304 Spartans doesn't roll off the tongue like 300 Spartans does.
It was King Leonidas and 3 captains of the guard my two best friends and myself each with 100 men under our command and we were the Kings royal bodyguards and went with him anywhere he went outside of Sparta
The Spartans also brought their 900 slaves with them to Thermopylae, but that doesn't roll off the tongue either.
After listening to the words of the oracle one Greek uttered "g.t.f.o.h" with an Italian-American accent.
"Oh, Sons of Greece! Free your homeland. Free your children, your wives, the temples of your gods and the tombs of your ancestors. Now you are fighting for all you have".
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The Civilazation that stood humankind on its feet!
❤🇬🇷❤🇬🇷❤🇬🇷❤🇬🇷❤🇬🇷❤