I'm just responding to a comment where somebody asked if I thought pistol optics were just a "trendy" thing, like laser sights. His words. So, I simply state what I think. Not sure about the trendy thing, but I honestly don't like them on handguns for myself. On long guns, I've learned that they can be pretty helpful. Even though I don't really "need" them, I've bought quite a few prism scopes and red dots to put on my rifles and carbines. On a handgun for defensive purposes at very close range, quick and dirty, I just don't care for the extra size and possible difficulty finding the red dot quickly enough. Plus the other reasons I talk about in the video.
@@Hickok45TalksI’m with you on this one. I have a couple pistols with Trijicon RMRs on them because I want to be versed, but I just like irons more. Partly for the ease and the clean lines. It’s just simple, and it works
I have a couple but i think they are unnecessary in most self defense situations average folks day to day would find themselves in. Farther distances they definitely shine more and have more utility. Also being able to focus on the target more easily while not having to strain between front sight focus. But typically you will be point/instinctively shooting at close range.
@@Hickok45Talks have you had a chance to read the white paper from Adam at sage dynamics? It’s long but worth it. I agree for most average CCW holders with a j frame or .380 optics aren’t needed. I argue this if you can’t complete a Dicken’s drill with irons on your CCW you should look into an optic. That’s my standard for CCW.
Ive been shooting almost daily for the last few years. And I’ve shot exclusively with irons until it was rare I miss a 3-inch target at 15 yards. Then, three weeks ago when I got a new HK VP9SK, I decided to try a dot and figured if it wasn’t for me I could take it off. It doesn’t make me more accurate. But what it does do is increases speed of target acquisition, particularly when drawing from a holster, and follow-up shots. It makes me dramatically faster. You can’t get good at guitar by buying a bunch of effects pedals and a fancy amp. But, once you build a certain core skill set, certain tools can help you take certain fine points to another level. Just my two cents.
It's a pretty objective truth that if you hand a brand new shooter a gun with a dot vs a gun with irons, they're going to immediately be more effective with the dot. If your goal is to carry/compete with a gun that has a dot, there's zero reason to start with irons as a sort of rite of passage. You can develop the same skills at a faster pace when starting with a dot because of the more apparent and precise feedback a dot gives you vs a front post.
Exactly this 👍 I would keep the sight on my home defense pew. That way if you’re awakened in the middle of the night, it won’t require as much focus. With a carry weapon it could be a hindrance.
It's had just the opposite effect with me. I find it slow and awkward as I fish around for the dot. Beyond 15 yards it is easier for me to hit with a dot, provided I take my time and am not rushed. Under this distance the iron sights rule. To each his own.
I do too. I think it depends on the handgun and how it is used. For a defensive handgun I totally agree with Hickok45 -I don't even like bigger adjustable target sights. Minimalist is the way to go on a concealed handgun. On a duty pistol I could see larger sights or even optical if that is what you want when it is carried on a duty belt OWB holster. That's just not my situation nor my mission. I carry AIWB and sometimes pocket carry and the most minimal sights like a notch along the top won't snag or be in the way. At up to 15 yards it is all point-shooting anyhow and the sights don't even come into play. If you can't hit a 6" target at 15 yards reliabily without the sights then you need to shoot and practice more. Using the sights just slows you down very measurably. That extra half second to use the sights might make the difference between surviving or not.
I'm fine with iron sights. Besides, I carry a snubnosed revolver. Even if I could put an optic on it, I wouldn't because the increased height would make it unviable for my preferred carry method.
I have a green dot on my carry pistol, and I've found it to be the best thing I could have done. It takes practice if you're used to Irons, but it's really accurate, especially for my older eyes. .
I think that's probably the only positive I can imagine, better visibility for older folks or people with vision problems. Even better for older folks is having one that's rechargeable without removal since those little wimpy screws are annoying to remove and tighten properly when you change the battery.
@@AudioGardenSlave123Wrong. Low light shooting with a handgun , which happens often, is dramatically easier. Daylight shooting,on the range, is not defensive shooting.
My pistol instructor encouraged me to buy and use an RDO - I did, and my shooting accuracy improved 100%. RDOs are great for those of us with no-so-young eyesight.
I was shooting a holo sight on my patrol rifle since way back, we played around with the pistol sights quite a while back too. As I've gotten older, I have the same eye issues you do. You may find after shooting the optics a while, when you go back to irons, you will shoot them better. The optic should be teaching you to get away from the front sight focus, which doesn't work well for some of our old eyes (focusing on the front sight and still seeing the target) at longer distances. That old school hard front sight focus may just not be best for us "older" guys. IT may be it is more about learning a different type of sight picture, superimposing the sights on the target instead of the front sight focus, more than anything else. Try shooting your irons like you do the red dot. Just my thoughts and observations.
I think the issue is with people proclaiming that red dots are not an upgrade. Irons still work just fine, but a red dot is the superior sighting system.
@rustwins4442 I think it really depends on what the gun is used for. At typical self defense distances a Red Dot probably wouldn't be much of a help, so why bother? For competition pistols, however, I can understand and agree that a Red Dot would provide an advantage over iron sights.
My 70+ year old eyes with everyday eyeglasses can not focus on iron sights. Sure, there are glasses with a prescription for shooting, but I couldn't wear them to read or drive. In an emergency I won't have time to switch to shooting glasses. Red dot solves that problem. In a pinch I can still co-witness the irons (fuzzily) through the optic.
I agree with your opinion on the red dot sights. However, I have a few years on you and I have macular degeneration. My rear sight on any gun doesn't look even to me. Even a scope is a problem since to lines are wavy. I tried a red dot and was surprised at how much it helped. I can shoot again!!! I found help for me. I do believe that they may be trendy but at least they aren't like lights and lasers on a home defense weapon that give away your home field advantage. Keep talking and I'll keep listening.
I have and use both irons and red dots. The more I use a red dot, the more I'm beginning to like them over irons. My older eyes seem to pick up a dot faster than irons these days.
I have several CT laser’s however I agree laser’s have been replaced with ‘Dot Sight’ devices which I also owned. If I was purchasing I probably go with ‘Dot Sight’ devices. However for decades I shot iron sights. The ‘Dot Sights’ once you train with them the acquisition can be faster and once sighted in on the target, those ‘Dot Sights’ if on the target that is where the bullet is going which makes follow up shots faster. Just don’t have to line up the back sight to the front sight procedure. You are correct it does make the total pistol a larger footprint. Nice discussion on the topic! Forgot to mention that the ‘Dot Sights’ that ‘Dot’ does not need to be centered on the glass. If the dot is on target no matter where on the glass, that is where that bullet should go!
Hi Greg, I just love these videos. I’m well into my 60’s now, and these videos remind me when was I a young boy sitting in the woods with my grandfather while we were out hunting. He would just talk to me about life, and share the various bits of wisdom he had acquired over the years through his experiences. Of course he has been gone for many years now, but those times still seem like yesterday. I wish I could have times like those with my grandchildren, but those woods are now a shopping mall, and my grandchildren live half way across the country. Again thank you for taking the time to make and share these videos.
I got a holosun red dot with solar backup model, it's actually really nice. I was having some really inconsistent shooting with the irons on the .44. Don't have issues with other iron sights, it was just those. Night and day change. Can punch holes in quarters at 10 yards. If you're worried about holsters, just get a leather one and cut some out of it so your sight fits. No biggy!
Been shooting iron sights for 55+ years, but, for several years now I have had a Crimson Trace on my S&W Airweight that i primarily carry. It's ergonomically comparable to the stock handle and, in my mind at least, it would be an advantage to aid in target acquisition in dark or low light self defense situations should the need ever arise. Which i hope it never does. But, I feel it could be helpful in that self defense scenario.
I think a lot of guys are going to them because they feel like it will make them shoot better without having to practice. Others do it for the "cool factor". I've seen too many cases where they fail. I only ever had scopes on two rifles, an Anschutz target rifle and a Barrett 82A1. I like the KISS principle......less things to go wrong.
@@martyyoung3611 Those guys go through barrels, extractors and such too, because they train shooting thousands of rounds all the time, plus things breaking make clicky video titles. Very few regular people experience failures, unless they fail to replace batteries.
My 1974 gunfight went down on a very dark parking lot & happened so fast that there was no time to do anything but shoot back. In retirement the EDC is either my LCP or J Frame, but w/o a red dot. If I was on the job today, & in uniform (no need to conceal), I would want every advantage technology could afford me.
They absolutely do what their hyped to, my issue with red dots is the people who act like you can't hit anything with irons, that they're just so painfully obsolete, that if you orefer irons over a dot, you're just wrong.
3x-5x Prism scopes on SBRs are awesome. Takes care of the astigmatism. They have very clear glass. They're fairly small and light. You can get on target quickly as well. I do a lot of shooting between 25 and 50 yds mostly because my property is just an acre. I find prism scopes to be perfect for that distance. Love listening to you "gab" Hickok! You're a great story-teller too!
At 66 yrs old my eyes are not what they used to be. I have tried red dots, namely the Trijicon RMR HRS Type 2. Loved it, looked amazing on my G17, but after one year I took it off and went back to irons. I just feel way more confident running irons, and I still shoot very well with them.
I’m of the exact same opinion as you, Hickok. I realize they lend themselves to be more accurate, but at extreme close range where handguns are usually utilized for defense, they’re sort of superfluous, in my opinion. The extra bulk of them is also a factor. Cheers.
Dots on pistols and rifles are a must. Just make everthing faster. I focus on the target not the front sight. But it never surpises me when a old timer prefers not to take advantage of technology. To each his own.
I will add that dots are great for those of us rare souls who have equal eye dominance. I can't shot irons with both eyes open no matter how hard I try with either eye. Having spatial awareness with both eyes open can be huge in a defensive scenario. And that gets into the biggest advantage of a dot which is being able to be totally target focused as well as perceiving what behind your target much better. This is huge for me being on my parish safety team as we have to be extra careful as almost any shot during mass is going to have a terrible backstop.
I’m like you I prefer iron/night sights over a red dot. 100% agree it makes gun bigger and yet everybody is all about the new micro 9 then put extended magazine in it and a red dot.
micro 9s are primarily designed for enhanced conceal-ability for carry. Shortening the width, grip and slide. Adding the red dot doesn’t really change that as you’re just adding an accessory on the lateral plane if, say, doing IWB or AIWB
@@guitarthrasher81 your adding height to the gun. I’m cool if you like it but the same gun without will always be smaller, but I get some people can only shoot good if they have a dot or are better with a dot. I am good without it, with practice I could be as good but I shoot weekly at my house and am good with the guns I carry.
@@svbarryduckworth628 100% agree lights are nice and I get it but everyone acts like they will be at grocery store then it turns into call of duty or metal gear solid video game and they got to sneak around shoot 20 bad guys, save the president, and rescue the princess. 99% of the time it will happen at ATM, or gas pump or parking lot up close and personal. And rare case at small distance where you stop armed Robby, but very rare it will be anything where you need a dot and flashlight. And in the rare case I need a light I got one clipped to my pocket, beside if your pulling your gun in public you see the threat otherwise you should not have it out.
@@jackbauer9077 height isn't relevant along the waistline in a IWB setup. Thickness isn't changed with a re dot, grip length poking out the shirt isn't changed, slide length touching your balls isn't changed
grew up shooting with irons, still primarily use them. I do have some handguns that I have put a dot on. It's got some pros and cons for sure, it does seem to be easier for newer shooters to learn dots than irons (I'm somewhat regularly taking new shooters to the range), overall it does seem more intuitive to use a dot than irons for target acquisition. Huge con though is exactly as you stated, it makes the firearm bigger, it also adds more failure points, if the slide cut isn't directly milled to fit that optic, you have an optic plate, which has screws that can fail, and then the optic on top of that plate, which has screws that can fail, as well as a battery, that can fail, and the optic itself, which can get broken, too dirty to use accurately and quickly. Overall I think they are kinda neat, could help with competition shooting, but for concealed carry, I'll mostly stick with irons, until cheaper optics can become small enough and reliable enough for me to be ok trusting my life to it and it not increase the firearm footprint much.
Its all great! Have fun, play, pick what ya like when ya like it, how ya like it. Mix it up if you want to, or dont. Be your own self, why deny yourself. Bottom line is the target....it has the last word, and it tells the ultimate truth.
I prefer a red dot and/or laser grip sights (especially on a 1911 where I don't want to ruin the style of the gun). The problem with either of these comes with their use outdoors. I can't see my laser grips at all, and I have some red dots (especially the auto brightness versions) where I can't get them bright enough. Irons will never go away, at least in part due to the limitations I mentioned. I just can't get the hang of iron sights and only use them when I have no other choice.
I know people don’t like Glock sights. But I got to be honest I love them. Red dots just seem like a new fad. And if you don’t have them you’re not cool. Old school and OEM everything
@@justinkayz8995 I know they’re not really that bad. Once you get used to them. I think cause there’s so many other sights it’s why they were grown to be hated. And the fact that they’re plastic. But if ya think about it. It does make the gun lighter. Not by much but it’s something to think about. One thing about them is they are actually very accurate.
Me being prior military we were only privy to iron sights when doing initial quals and re-quals … Unless you were SpecOps .. But I don’t think that’s even allowed (correct me if I’m wrong) and I’ve been out since 2010 .. I prefer stock all day every day …
It is also the Indiana State tree. The Tulip Poplar. I also agree with you on the adding size to the pistol, I do not like tall sights either, Peace and Grace Sir!
On one hand the experts on yt tell us that we need a fraction of a second draw stroke and then on the other tell us that we need lasers, lights, satellite dishes and the kitchen sink on the weapon... I like the KISS principle. But for the sake of full disclosure, I do put a drop of orange nail polish on the front sight.
I am the same. I don't think people realise that dots on rifles is actually completely different to dots on pistols. With pistol irons I have a constant reference point and can see how much I need to align them with my peripheral vision whilst being target focused and both eyes open. With a dot on a pistol there is no reference point whatsoever to train yourself to line it up properly unless you have higher irons (in that case why bother with the dot if I have to line up the irons first), or dots with a large outer circle. I have spent enough time now with both to see that I honestly can't see any improvement for myself with a dot over irons. I am fine saying that some people find advantages for competition. As well as it helps people fully understand target focus and both eyes open shooting. But I have always done that with irons, so it doesn't actually add a benefit. Perhaps if the irons are so far off zero that the dot helps become more precice, but if the gun is sighted perfectly with irons I can't see any speed benefit from my shooting perspective. Competition, sure. But especially for a carry gun I personally think it is pointless. They are the future in some sense, once they get smaller sizes, or holographic projections that appear above your gun with infinite battery life and durability. Right now I am trying really hard to see a difference and I just can't. If anything I am faster and more intuitive with irons. I thought it would make it faster to draw and acquire targets but I find it slower, and maybe perhaps faster at follow up shots, but not noticable. Everyone learns differently and perhaps the way I learned irons suits better for that. I believe a lot of people are using irons incorrectly and perpetuating the front sight focus nonsense which leaves people to believe they have to focus on irons. I use my irons like red dot users use their dots. At the end of the day, use what you are most practiced with.
I like irons. Im not a competitive shooter so I don’t need a red dot that costs as much as my edc-that only increases my accuracy at ranges I’d rarely need.
I'm 72 and old school. To me a red dot is just another piece in the machine that can fail. My dad gave me a Marlin M60 22 LR when I was 10 (which i still have BTW). My younger cousin and I used to go hunting every weekend a couple of years later, and no kidding, we got to where we dove hunted with the 22 because shooting them with a shotgun was no challenge. I prefer iron sights. Even with failing eyesight I don't have a problem getting on target. Seems like the newer generation likes the red dot option, more power to them. Just make sure your batteries are charged LOL.
I've got a red dot on a Ruger .22 pistol but other than that it's iron sights. I can't say the red dot helps me at all. I just had it spare and put it on there to give it a try. They're more of a help on a rifle where my middle aged eyes can't focus on the rear sight and the target at the same time ;) And I hear you on the tree. There's a cottonwood at the farm that sprouted at the edge of Mom's garden back in the early 70's. It's a mighty big tree now and what was the garden site is now all trees. Seeing that tree is always a happy memory when I visit their old farmyard.
Hickok45 Talks... I like iron sights too. My son tells me to get with the times. I just laugh and say I don't need a red or green dot to hit what I'm shooting at.. To me they block the view all around the pistol and I like to be able to see everything.
Dots for me, always gives me good contrast and visibility no matter the background or lighting. Also much easier to field tweak zero for various ammo. Irons are forever, but I'm faster and more confident with a dot -- you see that streak anywhere on the target and it's trigger time. Conceal and Carry on!
I know the benefits of the pistol optics, I prefer irons still. From what I see at the range… 90% of people should probably spend that $250-$500 on ammunition to practice with, cause their shooting is still awful with them…
Hickok you are a traditionalist. As an I. But I do like my laser sights on my 9mm. Dark or light doesn't matter since you aren't dependent on iron sights. That's what they are good for, other than that I stick with sights on the gun or point and shoot.
My problem is it will take extra space in conceal carry, I would need a weirder holster, even just a light makes carrying uncomfortable so I don’t do attachments. But for a range toy only exclusively attachments are fine If gun accessory companies make a pop up red dot sight that doesn’t take up more room, it will be a game changer
I respect Hickock's opinion, of course. But what shoots the fastest? IPCS open shooters have been using optics since the 90's. Sure, they're using brakes, hot ammo, and stendos. But they are the fastest, most accurate, and highest performing shooters. They allow for a higher level of performance, and that's the truth. Red dots got smaller, and now the average Joe can put one on his carry piece without inconveniencing himself. It's not a crutch, and it's not a disadvantage.
Maybe. But did people need more performance, at least for carry guns? There are cons to optics as well. They make the gun bigger, heavier, and more prone to failure. That’s just a fact. For the tiny advantage in short range situations, those cons may not be worth it.
@@66smithra Yes way. Do you consider inside of 15 yards Self defense range? I do. You must not have much red dot handgun experience. If you did you would realize it does not slow you down. But it makes shot placement at speed far far easier.
I got irons for both my pistols. Tritium dont get me wrong and one is a trijicon set. I used a holosun before and found it more of a distraction than anything, its interesting and I understand people liking to use the tech bc they think its what they should do, but sometimes the phrase “if it aint broke dont fix it” really is true. Pistols are mostly used defensively in sub 50 yard distances anyways.
I tried a JP Enterprises red dot when they first came out. Put it on a Government 1911. Waste of money and time. Acquiring the dot was nearly impossible for me. Probably too old to learn but I did try to get the hang of it for quite a while since I don't like spending several hundred dollars on something I toss in the drawer. Well, it is still somewhere in a drawer.
My challenge with optics is finding the dang dot. I know people get used to it, but I have not been able to yet. It’d probably help to cowitness. At this point, I definitely prefer iron sights and shoot better with them.
Just from a financial standpoint I see no practical need for a red dot on a pistol. I have a optics ready S&W 2.0 with suppressor height sights, but I don't see the need to spend another $250 on a quality optic for it. I'm a very simplistic person so it's hard for me to justify things that I don't really need. By the way, that S&W 2.0 was a gift from my son, I would not have purchased it myself. He said he's trying to get me into the modern age...lol
Recently purchased a S&W Shield plus 2.0 Performance Center with 4" barrel. No optics cut, no rail which is what I wanted. A fantastic CCW. I don't need all those bells and whistles.
Completely agree. To me they are just making something more complicated than necessary and adding another potential failure point. They are fantastic for the sight manufacturers which is ok.
I heard someone say that folks shooter better with red dots on M4s than irons so it must cross over to pistols. I agree but its only half true. You gotta practice a lot more with pistols. Most guys don't find the dots at first draw until they practice.
For defensive reasons lasers and red does are great. With practice many can shoot as effectively without them. They just help when you're not at your best.
I was always a very accurate person with a handgun. Red dots made me perfection with a handgun. Tried one on an M&P 2.0 at the range and I was a little pissed how much more accurate I was. Either way, practice practice practice.
As an old guy newbie shooter I sure do like optics. Without it there's a too much blurriness to be accurate (leaving aside recoil anticipation I haven't come close to overcoming). But that's target shooting with all the time in the world to line up the shot, not self defense and not concealed carry. For self defense I've thought it would be good to just have a high visibility line down the top, but I've never seen one like that.
I think for very experienced shooters you probably wouldn't notice much difference. The main difference would be in less experienced shooters becoming very capable without as much practice. Obviously a very good and experienced shooter with Irons will out perform a new shooter who has an optic. The thing is that not everyone has the time or money to put hundreds or thousands of rounds at the range on a regular basis. The ability for someone with a carry gun to more easily be accurate in a self defense scenario is huge. Better chance at hitting the target, and less chance of collateral damage.
I love white bracket irons, like with Glock and the new Springfield's. I'm always confused when people upgrade their irons to something that's all black 🤷 I bought OEM Glock sights for my Taurus G3c 👍
I am about as green as it comes when speaking on pistols. I started exactly 1 year ago. Got my HQL and CCW at the same time. I took my test with irons. When I got my first pistol I took it out a few times with irons. Then I got my optic, and for me personally it made a big difference, especially at distance.
I’ve gotten myself to the point where I’m very comfortable and accurate with my iron sights. Maybe one day I’ll move into a red dot but for now I just don’t feel the need to add bulk to my EDC learn a new system when I don’t think it will benefit me all that much.
I’m old. Been shooting from about the mid-60s, and through my entire 50-year police career…. Retired a few years ago. Not done much shooting since… too expensive. And it was getting really hard to get a good sight picture with my old eyes and cataract implants. But I wanted to shoot something….. So I got a Crossman air pistol and put Pinty red dot on it….. Game changer. Nice, clear sight picture…. Works very well. The police department I still work for (in a non-commissioned status) is going to a Glock 9mm with an optic sight.
Just to ponder hand gun sighting, Wyatt Earp is quoted as saying those who win a gun fight are those that take that time equal to a blink if an to aim that revolver,not an exact quote.
Used to be very pro laser. Learned that when you need them most they’ll fail. Red dots are good for further shots but irons will rarely fail you. Get into airsoft and go battle on an airsoft field trying to clear rooms full of kids trying to kill you. In close quarters fast action you’ll be instinct shooting. Only longer shots will you utilize sights. If you get frequent trigger time in you won’t need a dot sight for across room shooting that happens in a split second. I had a gun I shot so much that one time i took it to the mountains to shoot the rear blade cracked and fell off. Surprisingly I still shot it great without the rear sight. I actually see very good airsofters that have zero sights on their guns. When I saw them i thought they were idiots. Boy was I wrong. But these were indoors close quarters.
I think optics on handguns can work if you train regularly with it and handle the upkeep, keeping the glass clean, changing the battery regularly, using defogger on the glass, etc. But I do not believe it is necessary. I have one Glock 17 the is outfitted with an RMR because I like having the option. I carried and trained with it enough to be proficient with it, but I do not believe it is necessary and since then have gone back to my traditional iron sights with my other Glocks.
I still use iron sights for most of my handguns but I did just recently join the pistol optic club a couple months ago when I got a Glock 47 and a Holosun SCS. It's great in that it sits low and the iron sights co-witness with the factory height iron sights so aiming it is essentially no different.
And yeah... I also bought a computer when they were bleeding edge tech. lately I learned how to nickel plate.. and weld etc.. new things do not scare me but like 45 I do not want an adjustable sight on a Colt or clone SAA.... Soooo old and new.. I pick and choose what suits me and could care less what people think of that.
I like both... but me and my dudes out in the field find that when the glass on a pistol rds gets wet, the sights are obstructed, also its hard to peek around the obstruction because they inherently come with small glass. Irons on the other hand, seem rather unbothered and condtionless to extreme weather.
I added a red dot to 2 of my handguns, and I love them. It didn't take any time to adjust to them, and it did improve accuracy due to my 78 year old eyes. Even with better sights than what the guns came with, you have no trouble seeing the red dot, as opposed to seeing the front sight.
I have pistols with both but EDC is iron sites. Civilians are almost never going to need a red dot in a self-defense situation. Most will end up "point shooting" in those situations. For target shooting, the red dot may be better for most people but if you practice a lot with iron sights, you can pretty much do the same as anyone with the red dot.
The point of the optics isn't necessarily for the very experienced and well practiced shooters. Not everyone that has a EDC has the time or money(ammo ain't getting any cheaper lol) to put hundreds of rounds at a range every month. A dot sight for a less experienced shooter is going to almost instantly make them a better shot. Most people in this comment section are probably much better shots than the average person since most viewers of this channel are enthusiasts. A good shooter with irons will out shoot a novice with a dot, but a novice with a dot is going to be much better than a novice with iron sights.
2 different techniques when shooting. With iron sights, your front sight focused. With a red dot, your target focused. Anything close, within 7 yards, your not using either, your point shooting. Takes some practice to adjust your muscle memory to stop looking for the red dot and look for the target. I switched to red dots because I lost vision in 1 eye and got tired of having to take off my prescription driving glasses to be able to use the iron sights. Now whether I'm wearing my prescription driving glasses or not, I see that red dot. red dot technique is target focused, not front sight focused. And isn't that what we should be focused on in the first place, the target?
Working in a commercial level firearms store. Optics are one of the fastest growing markets next to suppressors. And one of the best profit margins. Through military and Leo trials i would say they are here to stay. Lasers had too many parts that could break and throw off zero. And from a tactical perspective give away your position. Where as red dots are invisible. Even outside sales of the dots themselves. The firearms that don't have optic cuts can sit for anywhere from a year to 2yrs wasting shelf space. Where as we can't keep optic cut versions in stock fast enough. So with the firearm itself machined for optics versus slapping a laser on a rail. I would say even the hardware is setting in stone the longevity of optics.
I got one on a Taurus 22. It works great, but it is not something I would do for my other handguns. With rifles is different, I love them on top of my rifles.
That's about right.Ole hick is finally getting around to this subject. This was covered more than two years ago buy a couple of REEL gun pros, Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn.... Check out Wilson combat, if you want to listen to real professionals
I clicked on this and man I’m scared my hero might go full fudd please don’t be true
I'm just responding to a comment where somebody asked if I thought pistol optics were just a "trendy" thing, like laser sights. His words.
So, I simply state what I think. Not sure about the trendy thing, but I honestly don't like them on handguns for myself.
On long guns, I've learned that they can be pretty helpful. Even though I don't really "need" them, I've bought quite a few prism scopes and red dots to put on my rifles and carbines.
On a handgun for defensive purposes at very close range, quick and dirty, I just don't care for the extra size and possible difficulty finding the red dot quickly enough. Plus the other reasons I talk about in the video.
@@Hickok45TalksI’m with you on this one. I have a couple pistols with Trijicon RMRs on them because I want to be versed, but I just like irons more. Partly for the ease and the clean lines. It’s just simple, and it works
I have a couple but i think they are unnecessary in most self defense situations average folks day to day would find themselves in. Farther distances they definitely shine more and have more utility. Also being able to focus on the target more easily while not having to strain between front sight focus. But typically you will be point/instinctively shooting at close range.
@@Hickok45Talks have you had a chance to read the white paper from Adam at sage dynamics? It’s long but worth it. I agree for most average CCW holders with a j frame or .380 optics aren’t needed. I argue this if you can’t complete a Dicken’s drill with irons on your CCW you should look into an optic. That’s my standard for CCW.
@@rhodycars6058 i dont think the legend hickock needs a red dot for the dickens drill
Ive been shooting almost daily for the last few years. And I’ve shot exclusively with irons until it was rare I miss a 3-inch target at 15 yards. Then, three weeks ago when I got a new HK VP9SK, I decided to try a dot and figured if it wasn’t for me I could take it off. It doesn’t make me more accurate. But what it does do is increases speed of target acquisition, particularly when drawing from a holster, and follow-up shots. It makes me dramatically faster. You can’t get good at guitar by buying a bunch of effects pedals and a fancy amp. But, once you build a certain core skill set, certain tools can help you take certain fine points to another level. Just my two cents.
Bingo. I spend any extra money I have on guitar effect pedals as I use thenm daily. Great call, God bless. PS: love Way Huge pedals.
It's a pretty objective truth that if you hand a brand new shooter a gun with a dot vs a gun with irons, they're going to immediately be more effective with the dot. If your goal is to carry/compete with a gun that has a dot, there's zero reason to start with irons as a sort of rite of passage. You can develop the same skills at a faster pace when starting with a dot because of the more apparent and precise feedback a dot gives you vs a front post.
Exactly this 👍
I would keep the sight on my home defense pew. That way if you’re awakened in the middle of the night, it won’t require as much focus.
With a carry weapon it could be a hindrance.
Great take. Seems like you’re living the dream shooting everyday!
It's had just the opposite effect with me. I find it slow and awkward as I fish around for the dot. Beyond 15 yards it is easier for me to hit with a dot, provided I take my time and am not rushed. Under this distance the iron sights rule. To each his own.
I love my iron sights. No battery, no widow glass to break, fog, get dirty etc. They just work. Carry wise lowest profile, fast enough on target 🎯🤠👍
Yep, I might be falling a tree one minute and welding the next... optics are an absolute liability around my house.
Pura sombreriza 🤠
I like iron sights.
I do too. I think it depends on the handgun and how it is used. For a defensive handgun I totally agree with Hickok45 -I don't even like bigger adjustable target sights. Minimalist is the way to go on a concealed handgun. On a duty pistol I could see larger sights or even optical if that is what you want when it is carried on a duty belt OWB holster. That's just not my situation nor my mission. I carry AIWB and sometimes pocket carry and the most minimal sights like a notch along the top won't snag or be in the way. At up to 15 yards it is all point-shooting anyhow and the sights don't even come into play. If you can't hit a 6" target at 15 yards reliabily without the sights then you need to shoot and practice more. Using the sights just slows you down very measurably. That extra half second to use the sights might make the difference between surviving or not.
The more I shoot with my dot, the more I like irons
Iron sights never need a battery for one thing and you have to work really hard to make iron sights "lose zero" once sited in.
@@robbylock1741 no argument there, but they run in the 10's of thousands of hours, and holosun solar panels does work.
Use what works best for you. I like iron sights. It’s what I’m used to.
I'm fine with iron sights. Besides, I carry a snubnosed revolver. Even if I could put an optic on it, I wouldn't because the increased height would make it unviable for my preferred carry method.
Hickock didn’t plant the trees, he just allows them to grow.
Chuck Norris probably planted it. He rammed an 8ft tree into the ground.
I have a green dot on my carry pistol, and I've found it to be the best thing I could have done. It takes practice if you're used to Irons, but it's really accurate, especially for my older eyes. .
I think that's probably the only positive I can imagine, better visibility for older folks or people with vision problems. Even better for older folks is having one that's rechargeable without removal since those little wimpy screws are annoying to remove and tighten properly when you change the battery.
@@AudioGardenSlave123 Most of the current pistol optics no longer require removal to change batteries… your perspective is a bit dated.
@@karlcain1068plenty still do !
@@AudioGardenSlave123Wrong. Low light shooting with a handgun , which happens often, is dramatically easier. Daylight shooting,on the range, is not defensive shooting.
My pistol instructor encouraged me to buy and use an RDO - I did, and my shooting accuracy improved 100%. RDOs are great for those of us with no-so-young eyesight.
I was shooting a holo sight on my patrol rifle since way back, we played around with the pistol sights quite a while back too. As I've gotten older, I have the same eye issues you do. You may find after shooting the optics a while, when you go back to irons, you will shoot them better. The optic should be teaching you to get away from the front sight focus, which doesn't work well for some of our old eyes (focusing on the front sight and still seeing the target) at longer distances. That old school hard front sight focus may just not be best for us "older" guys. IT may be it is more about learning a different type of sight picture, superimposing the sights on the target instead of the front sight focus, more than anything else. Try shooting your irons like you do the red dot. Just my thoughts and observations.
People care too much about what other people put on their guns.
It's the dot heads that get bent out of shape when people don't use them.
Like ball sack fore grips
If it works it works. What I prefer shouldn’t matter when you’re building a gun for YOU .
I think the issue is with people proclaiming that red dots are not an upgrade. Irons still work just fine, but a red dot is the superior sighting system.
@rustwins4442
I think it really depends on what the gun is used for. At typical self defense distances a Red Dot probably wouldn't be much of a help, so why bother?
For competition pistols, however, I can understand and agree that a Red Dot would provide an advantage over iron sights.
Totally agree with you. Tried them and removed them. For me not CC Option for way too many reasons.
My 70+ year old eyes with everyday eyeglasses can not focus on iron sights. Sure, there are glasses with a prescription for shooting, but I couldn't wear them to read or drive. In an emergency I won't have time to switch to shooting glasses.
Red dot solves that problem. In a pinch I can still co-witness the irons (fuzzily) through the optic.
My red dot is my front sight post of my iron sights. Works for me and doesn’t take batteries, break, fog up, or snag.
I agree with your opinion on the red dot sights. However, I have a few years on you and I have macular degeneration. My rear sight on any gun doesn't look even to me. Even a scope is a problem since to lines are wavy. I tried a red dot and was surprised at how much it helped. I can shoot again!!! I found help for me. I do believe that they may be trendy but at least they aren't like lights and lasers on a home defense weapon that give away your home field advantage. Keep talking and I'll keep listening.
Appreciate your perspective. I'm not surprised, as in the man who slapped the gong with slugs from the front porch without full sights.
I have and use both irons and red dots. The more I use a red dot, the more I'm beginning to like them over irons. My older eyes seem to pick up a dot faster than irons these days.
There are two kinds of people when it comes to pistol optics, those that hate them and those who have tried them.
@@Mosamania Training is the key. You can't transition from irons to a dot after decades of only using irons without it feeling awkward at first.
I love them. Shot irons for years, shot well with irons, but I've advanced fast with a red dot and I retain my irons as well.
How do you shoot well and then “advance fast”? If you advanced that much, you obviously didn’t shoot well in the first place.
I have several CT laser’s however I agree laser’s have been replaced with ‘Dot Sight’ devices which I also owned. If I was purchasing I probably go with ‘Dot Sight’ devices. However for decades I shot iron sights. The ‘Dot Sights’ once you train with them the acquisition can be faster and once sighted in on the target, those ‘Dot Sights’ if on the target that is where the bullet is going which makes follow up shots faster. Just don’t have to line up the back sight to the front sight procedure. You are correct it does make the total pistol a larger footprint.
Nice discussion on the topic!
Forgot to mention that the ‘Dot Sights’ that ‘Dot’ does not need to be centered on the glass. If the dot is on target no matter where on the glass, that is where that bullet should go!
Hi Greg,
I just love these videos. I’m well into my 60’s now, and these videos remind me when was I a young boy sitting in the woods with my grandfather while we were out hunting. He would just talk to me about life, and share the various bits of wisdom he had acquired over the years through his experiences. Of course he has been gone for many years now, but those times still seem like yesterday. I wish I could have times like those with my grandchildren, but those woods are now a shopping mall, and my grandchildren live half way across the country. Again thank you for taking the time to make and share these videos.
I got a holosun red dot with solar backup model, it's actually really nice. I was having some really inconsistent shooting with the irons on the .44. Don't have issues with other iron sights, it was just those. Night and day change. Can punch holes in quarters at 10 yards. If you're worried about holsters, just get a leather one and cut some out of it so your sight fits. No biggy!
My preferred choice for handgun is front green fiber optic with solid black rear…works the best for me.
I appreciate your honesty and simplicity.
Like you’ve said, I don’t want to put an optic on every pistol I own, because that’s a LOT of optics.
Been shooting iron sights for 55+ years, but, for several years now I have had a Crimson Trace on my S&W Airweight that i primarily carry. It's ergonomically comparable to the stock handle and, in my mind at least, it would be an advantage to aid in target acquisition in dark or low light self defense situations should the need ever arise. Which i hope it never does. But, I feel it could be helpful in that self defense scenario.
I think a lot of guys are going to them because they feel like it will make them shoot better without having to practice. Others do it for the "cool factor". I've seen too many cases where they fail. I only ever had scopes on two rifles, an Anschutz target rifle and a Barrett 82A1. I like the KISS principle......less things to go wrong.
How many cases have you seen where they fail?
@@garysarratt1, Watch some videos of 2 and 3 gun matches.
@@martyyoung3611 Those guys go through barrels, extractors and such too, because they train shooting thousands of rounds all the time, plus things breaking make clicky video titles. Very few regular people experience failures, unless they fail to replace batteries.
@@garysarratt1, I'm glad you agree.
Full transparency, I put a RMR on one of my pistols cause it looks cool. (also to try it) but it does look cool. 😂
My 1974 gunfight went down on a very dark parking lot & happened so fast that there was no time to do anything but shoot back. In retirement the EDC is either my LCP or J Frame, but w/o a red dot. If I was on the job today, & in uniform (no need to conceal), I would want every advantage technology could afford me.
I use mine as a charging handle mostly.
I use red dots on sightless rifles I don't need a scope for.
They absolutely do what their hyped to, my issue with red dots is the people who act like you can't hit anything with irons, that they're just so painfully obsolete, that if you orefer irons over a dot, you're just wrong.
3x-5x Prism scopes on SBRs are awesome. Takes care of the astigmatism. They have very clear glass. They're fairly small and light. You can get on target quickly as well. I do a lot of shooting between 25 and 50 yds mostly because my property is just an acre. I find prism scopes to be perfect for that distance. Love listening to you "gab" Hickok! You're a great story-teller too!
BuT tHe GlAsS mIgHt FoG uP
At 66 yrs old my eyes are not what they used to be. I have tried red dots, namely the Trijicon RMR HRS Type 2. Loved it, looked amazing on my G17, but after one year I took it off and went back to irons. I just feel way more confident running irons, and I still shoot very well with them.
I’m of the exact same opinion as you, Hickok. I realize they lend themselves to be more accurate, but at extreme close range where handguns are usually utilized for defense, they’re sort of superfluous, in my opinion. The extra bulk of them is also a factor. Cheers.
Amen, I totally agree 100% especially on a defense hand gun 🙌
Dots on pistols and rifles are a must. Just make everthing faster. I focus on the target not the front sight. But it never surpises me when a old timer prefers not to take advantage of technology. To each his own.
Red dot with co-witness iron sights (specifically tritium night sights) is my go to. Best of both worlds and easy to use with practice.
Thanks for your input on this. I tend to not wanting to add more to the lead thrower as well. Just seems like more stuff.
I will add that dots are great for those of us rare souls who have equal eye dominance. I can't shot irons with both eyes open no matter how hard I try with either eye. Having spatial awareness with both eyes open can be huge in a defensive scenario. And that gets into the biggest advantage of a dot which is being able to be totally target focused as well as perceiving what behind your target much better. This is huge for me being on my parish safety team as we have to be extra careful as almost any shot during mass is going to have a terrible backstop.
I’m cross eyed dominant and red dots are MUCH faster to use than irons
TRUE. know your gun and how it shoots. it's half the fun.
I’m like you I prefer iron/night sights over a red dot. 100% agree it makes gun bigger and yet everybody is all about the new micro 9 then put extended magazine in it and a red dot.
micro 9s are primarily designed for enhanced conceal-ability for carry. Shortening the width, grip and slide. Adding the red dot doesn’t really change that as you’re just adding an accessory on the lateral plane if, say, doing IWB or AIWB
Not to mention weapon lights. Makes no sense.
@@guitarthrasher81 your adding height to the gun. I’m cool if you like it but the same gun without will always be smaller, but I get some people can only shoot good if they have a dot or are better with a dot. I am good without it, with practice I could be as good but I shoot weekly at my house and am good with the guns I carry.
@@svbarryduckworth628 100% agree lights are nice and I get it but everyone acts like they will be at grocery store then it turns into call of duty or metal gear solid video game and they got to sneak around shoot 20 bad guys, save the president, and rescue the princess. 99% of the time it will happen at ATM, or gas pump or parking lot up close and personal. And rare case at small distance where you stop armed Robby, but very rare it will be anything where you need a dot and flashlight. And in the rare case I need a light I got one clipped to my pocket, beside if your pulling your gun in public you see the threat otherwise you should not have it out.
@@jackbauer9077 height isn't relevant along the waistline in a IWB setup. Thickness isn't changed with a re dot, grip length poking out the shirt isn't changed, slide length touching your balls isn't changed
You are so helpful, thank you!!!
grew up shooting with irons, still primarily use them. I do have some handguns that I have put a dot on. It's got some pros and cons for sure, it does seem to be easier for newer shooters to learn dots than irons (I'm somewhat regularly taking new shooters to the range), overall it does seem more intuitive to use a dot than irons for target acquisition. Huge con though is exactly as you stated, it makes the firearm bigger, it also adds more failure points, if the slide cut isn't directly milled to fit that optic, you have an optic plate, which has screws that can fail, and then the optic on top of that plate, which has screws that can fail, as well as a battery, that can fail, and the optic itself, which can get broken, too dirty to use accurately and quickly. Overall I think they are kinda neat, could help with competition shooting, but for concealed carry, I'll mostly stick with irons, until cheaper optics can become small enough and reliable enough for me to be ok trusting my life to it and it not increase the firearm footprint much.
Its all great! Have fun, play, pick what ya like when ya like it, how ya like it. Mix it up if you want to, or dont. Be your own self, why deny yourself. Bottom line is the target....it has the last word, and it tells the ultimate truth.
I like a red dot of some sort on a carbine or short barrel scattergun for night security around the homestead, but not otherwise for edc.
I prefer a red dot and/or laser grip sights (especially on a 1911 where I don't want to ruin the style of the gun). The problem with either of these comes with their use outdoors. I can't see my laser grips at all, and I have some red dots (especially the auto brightness versions) where I can't get them bright enough. Irons will never go away, at least in part due to the limitations I mentioned. I just can't get the hang of iron sights and only use them when I have no other choice.
I know people don’t like Glock sights. But I got to be honest I love them. Red dots just seem like a new fad. And if you don’t have them you’re not cool. Old school and OEM everything
I like the stock Glock sights as well. My eyes seem to zero right in on them
@@justinkayz8995 I know they’re not really that bad. Once you get used to them. I think cause there’s so many other sights it’s why they were grown to be hated. And the fact that they’re plastic. But if ya think about it. It does make the gun lighter. Not by much but it’s something to think about. One thing about them is they are actually very accurate.
Me being prior military we were only privy to iron sights when doing initial quals and re-quals … Unless you were SpecOps .. But I don’t think that’s even allowed (correct me if I’m wrong) and I’ve been out since 2010 .. I prefer stock all day every day …
It is also the Indiana State tree. The Tulip Poplar. I also agree with you on the adding size to the pistol, I do not like tall sights either, Peace and Grace Sir!
On one hand the experts on yt tell us that we need a fraction of a second draw stroke and then on the other tell us that we need lasers, lights, satellite dishes and the kitchen sink on the weapon... I like the KISS principle. But for the sake of full disclosure, I do put a drop of orange nail polish on the front sight.
Great comment!
I recently switched to that bright green paint for black guns. That's my green dot!
I like both but if I had to choose I would go irons all day and twice on Sunday.
I am the same. I don't think people realise that dots on rifles is actually completely different to dots on pistols. With pistol irons I have a constant reference point and can see how much I need to align them with my peripheral vision whilst being target focused and both eyes open. With a dot on a pistol there is no reference point whatsoever to train yourself to line it up properly unless you have higher irons (in that case why bother with the dot if I have to line up the irons first), or dots with a large outer circle. I have spent enough time now with both to see that I honestly can't see any improvement for myself with a dot over irons. I am fine saying that some people find advantages for competition. As well as it helps people fully understand target focus and both eyes open shooting. But I have always done that with irons, so it doesn't actually add a benefit. Perhaps if the irons are so far off zero that the dot helps become more precice, but if the gun is sighted perfectly with irons I can't see any speed benefit from my shooting perspective. Competition, sure. But especially for a carry gun I personally think it is pointless. They are the future in some sense, once they get smaller sizes, or holographic projections that appear above your gun with infinite battery life and durability. Right now I am trying really hard to see a difference and I just can't. If anything I am faster and more intuitive with irons. I thought it would make it faster to draw and acquire targets but I find it slower, and maybe perhaps faster at follow up shots, but not noticable. Everyone learns differently and perhaps the way I learned irons suits better for that. I believe a lot of people are using irons incorrectly and perpetuating the front sight focus nonsense which leaves people to believe they have to focus on irons. I use my irons like red dot users use their dots. At the end of the day, use what you are most practiced with.
I like irons. Im not a competitive shooter so I don’t need a red dot that costs as much as my edc-that only increases my accuracy at ranges I’d rarely need.
I'm 20. Red dots are fun but they feel much more natural on sub machine guns and rifles. I also dislike tall iron sights, I like pistols sleek.
I'm 72 and old school. To me a red dot is just another piece in the machine that can fail. My dad gave me a Marlin M60 22 LR when I was 10 (which i still have BTW). My younger cousin and I used to go hunting every weekend a couple of years later, and no kidding, we got to where we dove hunted with the 22 because shooting them with a shotgun was no challenge. I prefer iron sights. Even with failing eyesight I don't have a problem getting on target. Seems like the newer generation likes the red dot option, more power to them. Just make sure your batteries are charged LOL.
I've got a red dot on a Ruger .22 pistol but other than that it's iron sights. I can't say the red dot helps me at all. I just had it spare and put it on there to give it a try. They're more of a help on a rifle where my middle aged eyes can't focus on the rear sight and the target at the same time ;)
And I hear you on the tree. There's a cottonwood at the farm that sprouted at the edge of Mom's garden back in the early 70's. It's a mighty big tree now and what was the garden site is now all trees. Seeing that tree is always a happy memory when I visit their old farmyard.
Hickok45 Talks... I like iron sights too. My son tells me to get with the times. I just laugh and say I don't need a red or green dot to hit what I'm shooting at.. To me they block the view all around the pistol and I like to be able to see everything.
Then keep both your eyes open.
@@garysarratt1 Obviously I do keep both of my eye open. Thanks for the tip though.
Dots for me, always gives me good contrast and visibility no matter the background or lighting. Also much easier to field tweak zero for various ammo. Irons are forever, but I'm faster and more confident with a dot -- you see that streak anywhere on the target and it's trigger time.
Conceal and Carry on!
I know the benefits of the pistol optics, I prefer irons still. From what I see at the range… 90% of people should probably spend that $250-$500 on ammunition to practice with, cause their shooting is still awful with them…
Hickok you are a traditionalist. As an I. But I do like my laser sights on my 9mm. Dark or light doesn't matter since you aren't dependent on iron sights. That's what they are good for, other than that I stick with sights on the gun or point and shoot.
My problem is it will take extra space in conceal carry, I would need a weirder holster, even just a light makes carrying uncomfortable so I don’t do attachments. But for a range toy only exclusively attachments are fine
If gun accessory companies make a pop up red dot sight that doesn’t take up more room, it will be a game changer
I like red dots. It’s easier to adjust than drift or press adjustable sights and you stay focused on the target.
I respect Hickock's opinion, of course. But what shoots the fastest? IPCS open shooters have been using optics since the 90's. Sure, they're using brakes, hot ammo, and stendos. But they are the fastest, most accurate, and highest performing shooters. They allow for a higher level of performance, and that's the truth. Red dots got smaller, and now the average Joe can put one on his carry piece without inconveniencing himself. It's not a crutch, and it's not a disadvantage.
Maybe. But did people need more performance, at least for carry guns? There are cons to optics as well. They make the gun bigger, heavier, and more prone to failure. That’s just a fact. For the tiny advantage in short range situations, those cons may not be worth it.
@@66smithra it's not a tiny advantage. You should train with one. It's a complete gamechanger
@@jonathandebona8934at SD ranges? No way.
@@66smithra Yes way. Do you consider inside of 15 yards Self defense range? I do. You must not have much red dot handgun experience. If you did you would realize it does not slow you down. But it makes shot placement at speed far far easier.
@@jonathandebona8934 I agree with Hickok. Not worth it for handguns.
I got irons for both my pistols. Tritium dont get me wrong and one is a trijicon set. I used a holosun before and found it more of a distraction than anything, its interesting and I understand people liking to use the tech bc they think its what they should do, but sometimes the phrase “if it aint broke dont fix it” really is true. Pistols are mostly used defensively in sub 50 yard distances anyways.
I tried a JP Enterprises red dot when they first came out. Put it on a Government 1911. Waste of money and time. Acquiring the dot was nearly impossible for me. Probably too old to learn but I did try to get the hang of it for quite a while since I don't like spending several hundred dollars on something I toss in the drawer. Well, it is still somewhere in a drawer.
My challenge with optics is finding the dang dot. I know people get used to it, but I have not been able to yet. It’d probably help to cowitness. At this point, I definitely prefer iron sights and shoot better with them.
Just from a financial standpoint I see no practical need for a red dot on a pistol. I have a optics ready S&W 2.0 with suppressor height sights, but I don't see the need to spend another $250 on a quality optic for it. I'm a very simplistic person so it's hard for me to justify things that I don't really need. By the way, that S&W 2.0 was a gift from my son, I would not have purchased it myself. He said he's trying to get me into the modern age...lol
Recently purchased a S&W Shield plus 2.0 Performance Center with 4" barrel. No optics cut, no rail which is what I wanted. A fantastic CCW. I don't need all those bells and whistles.
Completely agree. To me they are just making something more complicated than necessary and adding another potential failure point. They are fantastic for the sight manufacturers which is ok.
I love the tree facts in the beginning more than anything 🌳 I like trees
I heard someone say that folks shooter better with red dots on M4s than irons so it must cross over to pistols. I agree but its only half true. You gotta practice a lot more with pistols. Most guys don't find the dots at first draw until they practice.
For defensive reasons lasers and red does are great. With practice many can shoot as effectively without them. They just help when you're not at your best.
I was always a very accurate person with a handgun. Red dots made me perfection with a handgun. Tried one on an M&P 2.0 at the range and I was a little pissed how much more accurate I was. Either way, practice practice practice.
As an old guy newbie shooter I sure do like optics. Without it there's a too much blurriness to be accurate (leaving aside recoil anticipation I haven't come close to overcoming).
But that's target shooting with all the time in the world to line up the shot, not self defense and not concealed carry.
For self defense I've thought it would be good to just have a high visibility line down the top, but I've never seen one like that.
I think for very experienced shooters you probably wouldn't notice much difference. The main difference would be in less experienced shooters becoming very capable without as much practice. Obviously a very good and experienced shooter with Irons will out perform a new shooter who has an optic. The thing is that not everyone has the time or money to put hundreds or thousands of rounds at the range on a regular basis. The ability for someone with a carry gun to more easily be accurate in a self defense scenario is huge. Better chance at hitting the target, and less chance of collateral damage.
I love white bracket irons, like with Glock and the new Springfield's. I'm always confused when people upgrade their irons to something that's all black 🤷
I bought OEM Glock sights for my Taurus G3c 👍
I am about as green as it comes when speaking on pistols. I started exactly 1 year ago. Got my HQL and CCW at the same time. I took my test with irons. When I got my first pistol I took it out a few times with irons. Then I got my optic, and for me personally it made a big difference, especially at distance.
Lots of tulip poplar here in Terre Haute IN. Lots of old barns built with them.
I’ve gotten myself to the point where I’m very comfortable and accurate with my iron sights. Maybe one day I’ll move into a red dot but for now I just don’t feel the need to add bulk to my EDC learn a new system when I don’t think it will benefit me all that much.
Green dot on my 2011, I carry it on occasion, but it’s mostly for fun at the range. My primary carry pistols are all iron sights.
I’m old. Been shooting from about the mid-60s, and through my entire 50-year police career…. Retired a few years ago. Not done much shooting since… too expensive. And it was getting really hard to get a good sight picture with my old eyes and cataract implants.
But I wanted to shoot something….. So I got a Crossman air pistol and put Pinty red dot on it….. Game changer. Nice, clear sight picture…. Works very well. The police department I still work for (in a non-commissioned status) is going to a Glock 9mm with an optic sight.
Just to ponder hand gun sighting, Wyatt Earp is quoted as saying those who win a gun fight are those that take that time equal to a blink if an to aim that revolver,not an exact quote.
Used to be very pro laser. Learned that when you need them most they’ll fail. Red dots are good for further shots but irons will rarely fail you. Get into airsoft and go battle on an airsoft field trying to clear rooms full of kids trying to kill you. In close quarters fast action you’ll be instinct shooting. Only longer shots will you utilize sights. If you get frequent trigger time in you won’t need a dot sight for across room shooting that happens in a split second. I had a gun I shot so much that one time i took it to the mountains to shoot the rear blade cracked and fell off. Surprisingly I still shot it great without the rear sight. I actually see very good airsofters that have zero sights on their guns. When I saw them i thought they were idiots. Boy was I wrong. But these were indoors close quarters.
I have a home defense type O light, green laser. Do I tote it around? No. Lasers & CT lasers are not common, 2024.
The fairest shake I give pistol red dots is that some are made for night vision. Otherwise I don't personally prefer them.
I’m an ok shooter with irons but a dot makes me better than ok, faster target acquisition and follow up shots
I think optics on handguns can work if you train regularly with it and handle the upkeep, keeping the glass clean, changing the battery regularly, using defogger on the glass, etc. But I do not believe it is necessary. I have one Glock 17 the is outfitted with an RMR because I like having the option. I carried and trained with it enough to be proficient with it, but I do not believe it is necessary and since then have gone back to my traditional iron sights with my other Glocks.
I still use iron sights for most of my handguns but I did just recently join the pistol optic club a couple months ago when I got a Glock 47 and a Holosun SCS. It's great in that it sits low and the iron sights co-witness with the factory height iron sights so aiming it is essentially no different.
RDs allow being target, or Threat focused instead of focusing on Front Sight.
It can be quicker and more precise with shot placement.
And yeah... I also bought a computer when they were bleeding edge tech. lately I learned how to nickel plate.. and weld etc.. new things do not scare me but like 45 I do not want an adjustable sight on a Colt or clone SAA.... Soooo old and new.. I pick and choose what suits me and could care less what people think of that.
I have both like both. I’m faster Rand more accurate with a red dot
I like both... but me and my dudes out in the field find that when the glass on a pistol rds gets wet, the sights are obstructed, also its hard to peek around the obstruction because they inherently come with small glass. Irons on the other hand, seem rather unbothered and condtionless to extreme weather.
I added a red dot to 2 of my handguns, and I love them. It didn't take any time to adjust to them, and it did improve accuracy due to my 78 year old eyes. Even with better sights than what the guns came with, you have no trouble seeing the red dot, as opposed to seeing the front sight.
+1 for red dots. It's so much easier to focus on target and keep that red in my peripheral
Beautiful tree!
I have pistols with both but EDC is iron sites. Civilians are almost never going to need a red dot in a self-defense situation. Most will end up "point shooting" in those situations.
For target shooting, the red dot may be better for most people but if you practice a lot with iron sights, you can pretty much do the same as anyone with the red dot.
👆 this
The point of the optics isn't necessarily for the very experienced and well practiced shooters. Not everyone that has a EDC has the time or money(ammo ain't getting any cheaper lol) to put hundreds of rounds at a range every month. A dot sight for a less experienced shooter is going to almost instantly make them a better shot. Most people in this comment section are probably much better shots than the average person since most viewers of this channel are enthusiasts. A good shooter with irons will out shoot a novice with a dot, but a novice with a dot is going to be much better than a novice with iron sights.
2 different techniques when shooting. With iron sights, your front sight focused. With a red dot, your target focused. Anything close, within 7 yards, your not using either, your point shooting. Takes some practice to adjust your muscle memory to stop looking for the red dot and look for the target. I switched to red dots because I lost vision in 1 eye and got tired of having to take off my prescription driving glasses to be able to use the iron sights. Now whether I'm wearing my prescription driving glasses or not, I see that red dot. red dot technique is target focused, not front sight focused. And isn't that what we should be focused on in the first place, the target?
That's cool that that poplar tree got that big because you didn't bush hog it.
I prefer iron sights on a pistol, scope on a rifle. I tried one of my dads red dots and didn’t like it. Just my preference.
I do prefer red dots over irons, however, I’ll never make fun of someone who shoots better with irons
Working in a commercial level firearms store. Optics are one of the fastest growing markets next to suppressors. And one of the best profit margins. Through military and Leo trials i would say they are here to stay. Lasers had too many parts that could break and throw off zero. And from a tactical perspective give away your position. Where as red dots are invisible. Even outside sales of the dots themselves. The firearms that don't have optic cuts can sit for anywhere from a year to 2yrs wasting shelf space. Where as we can't keep optic cut versions in stock fast enough. So with the firearm itself machined for optics versus slapping a laser on a rail. I would say even the hardware is setting in stone the longevity of optics.
I prefer irons personally, always had a hard time getting the gun to point well with RDS. Ymmv
I got one on a Taurus 22. It works great, but it is not something I would do for my other handguns.
With rifles is different, I love them on top of my rifles.
That's about right.Ole hick is finally getting around to this subject. This was covered more than two years ago buy a couple of REEL gun pros, Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn.... Check out Wilson combat, if you want to listen to real professionals
Adding a red dot to my lever rifle improved follow up shot at a distance a lot.