HOI 4 - 9 Historical Infantry Division Layouts - Early War
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- Patreon: / mhv
Historical infantry division layouts for Hearts of Iron IV for 9 countries with historical background information and discussion on the setup.
Script with Images: militaryhistoryvisualized.com/...
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--Sources--
too many, see here: militaryhistoryvisualized.com/...
--Credits & Special Thanks--
The Counter-Design is heavily inspired by Black ICE Mod for the game Hearts of Iron 3 by Paradox Interactive
forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...
--Song---
Ethan Meixsell - Demilitarized Zone (the Irony :D) - Ігри
![[Military 101] NATO Unit Counters - Niehorster Dialect](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YgLU5ncAE9M/mqdefault.jpg)
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"Not necessarily to your advantage." You don't get a lot of Japanese Emperor references these days.
I was lucky enough that is was a HOI 4 "loading screen tip", else I wouldn't have known.
I have been searching for a video like this since HOI4 was released, thankfully I see this popping up in my sub box and not a moment too soon.
if you are looking for a guide about how to propperly setup your divisions then you should check the hoi4 subreddit and not follow these video, this would be for a guide for historical recreation and not actual gamplay exploit.
Genaddi Meneses just put a butch of light tanks and anti tanks and anti air that’s what i do with a
I was wondering why the default Italian infantry division in-game is small - turns out its based on real life.
Domo 230 kinda like their will to fight
That guy S
Eh. One time I had Germany back down in Rhineland, when going around Marginot not declaring on Belgium and failing to break through until Italy managed to push until the gates of Paris.
Vanilla game, no mods.
@@thatguys773 that's the dumbest thing i've ever read.
Only after 1938 though. Before that it was similar to other countries' infantry
Pariani's reform was meant to increase maneuverability and autonomy of units, but Italy lacked a very important thing: motorisation. The car industry couldn't meet the requirements for a mobile army.
By the time Italy joined the war in June 1940 only half the army had made the conversion
Due to the industrial deficit I've mentioned, the high command resulted to using old school methods the binary division wasn't designed for... with predictable results.
Sir the Germans are coming. Ok, bob take your machine gun over there, joe take your men to that hill, Carl take your bicycle and charge the enemy.
K
Guess it was more due to speed advantage over men on foot. Also for communications. A man on a bike will be a fast, cheap way to transport messages.
@@HappyBeezerStudios japanese blitzkrieg of Singapore
Your comments about the U.S. Infantry Division should mention that the U.S. Corps and Army command above the divisions retained a lot of additional transport (the "motor pool") in comparison to the foot Infantry divisions they commanded. The idea was that the Army commanders could dole out enough transport to motorize at least one Infantry division anytime he wanted a motorized division. He could also used his trucks to motorize his supply, as in the famous "Redball Express" during the advance across France. No other WWII force used that thinking, largely because they didn't have enough trucks to do it that way.
thank you, as mentioned during the end of German Infantry Division section that is the case for quite several countries, but so far I only read about it when it was briefly mentioned in a few lines, e.g., for the Soviets.
I learned that in the designers notes for "Third Reich", an old Avalon Hill board game. A lot of TO&E info never gets into war histories because they are not seen as important to the narrative.
I don't think any WWII army had a bigger motor pool than the U.S. The unfortunate Germans were forced to use trucks to fulfill combat roles that were supposed to be assigned to armored half-tracks, which negatively affected the mobility of important components like artillery and anti-tank guns.
yeah, TO&E are quite hard to come by for non-US troops. I guess if I hadn't played the Black ICE mod for Hearts of Iron III and realized that I don't know nothing about division, I would have never done my initial German Infantry division video, which was my "first contact" with a TO&E, which was basically a two page listing and not even a table.
yeah, the Germans lacked everything in the motor pool and used a lot of civilian and captured vehicles that were of limited durability, quality and also needed different spare parts... logistical nightmare.
When he says "Furthermore" I cant help but hear "Furhermore" lmao
Very informative, saves some time. Thanks.
Hi bazbattles!!
Excellent, thank you. Can we have a guide for:
- Armor division (Panzer-division specifically)
- Motorized Infantry division (maybe also Panzergrenadier)
pretty please? ^^
Panzergrenadiers and motorized infantry were the the same thing - all motorized infantry divisions and regiments (including those in Panzer divisions) were renamed "Panzergrenadier" for propaganda purposes in 1943. There was no distinction between them and they never coexisted.
The number of halftracks didn´t shoot up either.
From 1942 onward, the 1st battallion of both regiments was supposed to be mechanized, though most divisions could only maintain one or two companies of mechanized infantry.
+Kawaiiser Wilhelm II Von Hohenzollern (Hjørtur Erlendsson) Mein kaiser!
Jerold Productions
*Mein
I've been searching around for this even before it was released. It was so perfectly exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
Hearts of Iron is just such a good game!
Livington it's fun for noobs like me
"The war situation may not necessairly develop to your advantage" hehehehe nice quote...
Would you be that calm after taking 2 A-bomb's?
I love your videos! Thank you for all the effort you go through to find the data! Thank you, please keep up the good work and make more!
All of your videos are interesting and very informative. I hope you will keep on doing this amazing work 😊
Amazing job! And congrats on 20k subs in just half a year...which btw, happens to be quite fast from what i've seen.
damn man I was playing Total War Napoleon and whilst listening to your video I laughed at the part:
if you wish to go in space here are the Polish
kurwa xD
:)
Derpythe XDerp
-Poland
-Space
-Pick one.
Jason Yixiang Liu
All of the above
"kurwa"
Our Polish battlecry is so funny XD
(ridiculous i should say, it mean "slut")
Greeting from Poland!
German accent? So thats a vital part of your chanel?
from reading many comments, yes, although it is more of a force multiplier.
Military History Visualized were you dropped out of art school as well. Asking this for no reason at all just to see if the rumors are true.
+Matīss Veinbergs Not to mention the 88 likes and 0 dislikes.
Any Chemistry or Military talk is greatly enhanced by a German accent.
It does add to the mix indeed. Although i am more impressed by his throughout work and source citations.
3:18 Paradox Development Studio, actually. PDS is part of Paradox Interactive, which publishes of their games as well as third-party stuff. Paradox Interactive used to be part of Paradox Entertainment (most notable for their ownership of Conan the Barbarian). It's a bit like Bethesda Game Studios' (a game dev) relationship with Bethesda Softworks (a publisher, though it should be noted that Bethesda Softworks itself is owned by Zenimax Group).
Nitpicky, I know, but I figured you'd find that interesting.
I did.
Oh so interesting, I'm sure everyone cares about that irrelevant info
Thanx for taking time to do this. Danke :)
This video is how I found my new favorite channel on youtube....love it
Great video as always, it's interesting to both see the compositions of real divisions and how they might be made in HoI4.
However, while there are similarities between the historic divisions and a good HoI4 division (mostly with the support companies), there are a few things that would make them inefficient. Not sufficiently enough to cause you to lose a war with just that alone, but could potentially result in the war being longer and more costly.
The main point is combat width. Battlefields in HoI4 have a max combat width, which is to say how many men can get into the area to fight. This will be largely dependent on the terrain, so a plain will have a higher max combat width than an area of mountains. Whatever the max combat width, it will usually be a multiple of 20.
This means the most efficient combat widths for divisions tend to be either 10, 20 or sometimes 40 (usually used for hard pushing, extremely high breakthrough tank divisions, but I won't do into that here). Most battalions in the game have a combat width of 2, however artillery has a combat width of 3, and support companies have no effective combat width.
This means the basic infantry division will usually consist of 7 infantry divisions and 2 artillery divisions. 7x2 + 2x3 = 14 + 6 = 20. They will usually also have an artillery support company and an engineer company. The rest are usually filled by field hospital companies, recon companies, signal companies, logistics companies or sometimes I have seen maintenance companies.
If you count up the sizes of the historical divisions as you've set them up with a HoI4 division template, the combat width comes to usually around 30. This causes a problem because let's say there's a battle with a max combat width on each side of 40, my army has divisions with a combat width of 20 and yours have combat widths of 30.
Only one of your divisions can fit because two of your divisions together will have a combat width of more than 40, whereas I can fit 2 divisions. Your divisions 1v1 against mine will be stronger, but usually my divisions will win 2v1, which is what would happen if the max combat width is 40.
The combat width of 30 also comes into effect when the max combat width is 80, you will get 2 division while I can use 4.
There are other factors, and depending on those factors it may turn out to not make that much difference, just having a combat width of 10 or 20 for infantry divisions is more efficient.
Awesome video! I might have to stick to the historical nr of artillery guns, otherwise those divisions would dry my supply lines. Here's an idea for the next videos: layout for the armoured divisions of the majors in HoI 4. You might have to include SP-Art to maintain the division's speed. Keep up the good work and thanks!
Super detailed. Excellent video. I'll be getting Hoi4 soon! I've played so many Paradox games but this one is much more complicated than Europa Universalis or Crusader Kings.
How do you only have 26k subscribers, your video quality is excellent, great editing, research and visualisation. Keep up the good work! :-D
thank you, well, I have an average grow rate of around 400-500 subscribers lately, which is close to that of a 500K channel, so the growth is inline I think :)
I'm here because of Reddit link. You gained another subscriber! thanks for the historical comparisons.
Hey man! I really love your videos, keep up the good work!
You should do a video about the layout & organisation of the british royal navy during the napoleonic wars
Thank you for the video! Excellent information.
Ironic that the country whose flag is a NATO artillery symbol (Japan) also had one of the weakest artillery regiments.
Outer Spaced ROFLMAO didn't even realise that until now XDDD
The artillery symbol is a diamond not a circle.
coincidental*
I need no channel youtube! The symbol for a field artillery unit is a circle, which represents a cannonball.
I need no channel youtube! A circle, check the NATO video
Love your channel.. You consistently crack me up with your dry wit. The German accent line at the opening cracked me up...
Great job on the presentation, I really like the way you present information and the dry jokes you make when you move on to another country complete the video for me.
thank you!
Absolutely avesome. High quality content :D
Thank you for another great Video dude! I really mag deine videos!
The national jokes all got a chuckle or a humored groan. Well done, keep up the good work!
I really hope you'll do the same for tank divisions soon. And everything else. Good job man.
looks good, after all the basic framework is set, hopefully someone can clear up the artillery battalion discrepancy about the number of guns in-game vs. the historical one.
Tank division will probably be more complicated and I will do several for each nation, because there was way more change (especially the Germans), but this also makes it more complicated, so might take a week or two.
Awesome, looking forward to it.
Again an amazing work.
Thank u very much.
Kindly make "Historical Tank Division Layouts" for Hearts of Iron 4. :)
Brilliantly done, btw.
"here... for the German accent..."
I lolled!!!
Thank you for the Romanian Division!!!! I needed it!! :D
No Indian division though, eh :P
Yeah
:))
+MaxRavenclaw Look Up!
MaxRavenclaw India was British at the time
As someone who can't read nato symbols, thank you for naming them as they poped up in the video
loved the cheesy intros to all the nations :) awesome vid, ty!
you should really be an advisor to historical mods when mods come out for the game
That means the people making the mods will have lots of issues to have perfect historical accuracies in their mods. which in result will end up in arguements in whether they should do it.
Dude this is great most of the time i am just doing random stuff so thx for this m8
Amasing Video THANK YOU!
Love the idea of this vid nice job! going to give the Polish a go next wish me luck XD
Literally what I was looking for
I was just thinking aobut how great it would be for a video like this to exist.
Dayum you're fantastic !
MHV - just another super video on the armies setup - .........
Very good video!!
you can but anti tank as like artilery in a separate regiment. This was a really nice and cool video. 2 bad i had already preoreded hoi4 as you deserve cred for this! =)
The French infantry divisions varied in actual equipment in 1940, with series B reserve divisions usually coming up short in things like anti tank guns and officers.
I like this. I might try a challenge run with these templates. They're not ideal persay, but they are viable considering their size and the current infantry meta.
thank for doing this, was very interesting, you plan on putting this in the HOI IV forums?
it should be already there. forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/9-historical-infantry-division-layouts.949174/
Fantastic! I need to build more guns.
Great vid, must have been a ton of effort.
Germany infantry division in 1939 had 20 infantry gun of 75 mm and 6 infantry guns with 150 mm caliber, additionally to 36 howitzer of 105 mm and 12 howitzer of 150 mm. Also had 75 37mm anti tank guns and 12 AA guns (probably 88 mm). AA guns were as part of AT battalion, as well as 3 batteries of 12 AT gun 37 mm. Each infantry regiment had 6 infantry gun of 75 mm, 2 infantry guns of 150 mm, and 12 AT guns of 37 mm. R econ battalion had 2 infantry guns of 75 mm, and 3 AT gun of 37 mm, as well as 2 armored cars.
HoI don't add infantry guns in infantry battalions, so maybe that why artillery battalions are so large. In total division had 12+36+20+6=74 guns what is roughly 2 HoI battalions.
Infantry guns are no long used in modern units.
In game speaking those historical formation are not good. With need to be evenly divided with 40, so optimal with is usually 20.
Really useful, and well presented.
And I, also, come here for the German accent.
When this video came out I wasn't a Hearts of Iron player but I do play it now so I'm rewatching it
I would be great if you could post an Army makeup video for HOI4. I love the division information and now I need to know how many and of which types of divisions should be in each 24 division army.
Damn, I'll be sure to try these out
Great video
Awesome video 😚👌
One question, for the italian infantry division, shouldn't the two Blackshirts battalions be represented by militia battalions?
sehr schön erklärt ;)
Please do more divisions!
I have some thought....
In HOI IV there is two trees of science regarding infantry. The support and Basic Equipment.
The Support ads breakthrough and defens. The images as well as the game mecanics imply this is mortars and medium/heavy machineguns.
In the base equpment there is a 0.5, 1, 1.5 and so on amount of hard attack. The numbers as well as the images imply that there is some light anti tank integrated in the base infantery batalion
Also in 1942 the player is able to ad additional antitank capacity of the standard infantery.
To my mind this take care of all the light anti tank weapons as well as all the morters. HOI IV simplify the reserch quite a bit, and a lot of stuff is clustered together. But one cold imagine that this is representative of diffrent armes tech-level in regards of equipment.
One can just skip doing the Weapons II and III and go for a brigade attachment of anti tank in steed, making the Infantery cheeper but the units heavier (mostly getter better hard attack).
The issue with this, and some thing i´m thik is a drawback in HOI IV is that the hand weapons and anti tank is clusted in one category, so you cant really choice. In this way it was much better in HOI III
I would love to see a version of this for Finnish Divisions/Regiments at the start of the Winter War. From what I can work out they were only ~7,000 men in a Finnish Division in 1939.
the way the supplies seem to be set up with the German army basically says it all! didn't logistics get managed by OKW but with the Heer only really focussing on fighting. I heard that lots of German commanders thought that logistics was for pen pushers rather than army officers!
About polish anti tank guns in 39. Every divison was equiped not only in 37 mm Bofors guns but also they had anti tank rifles called UR. I don't know excact number of them, but i can find it out if you like.
In armies tha follow UK army system like India. Infantry regiment is of a particular geographic region.NCO s are of that region only,but not officers .A regiment may have more tha 15 battalions.For eg Dogra regiment has around 20 or 22 battalions
Have you considered covering individual battles (not only ww2, but perhaps from napoleonic and roman eras as well)?
Your style would fit in nicely with these kinds of videos.
yeah, I guess I need to do a FAQ video.
I would have liked this video for no other reason than you attempted to 'understand' the British Battalion/Regiment/Bridge naming process. :P
Well done overall!
I think that support artillery is just bigger guns so they cost x3 more in order to represent that it takes 3 times the industrial effort to build one.
Love the salt bit, I find its quite rare people know the reference (salt, throwing, shoulder, devil). I know I didn't learn it for quite some time. I like it, lots of information in a funny way, , and if someone watched far enough to get to it, they are either smart enough to appreciate it, or curious enough to google it (I got laid b4 Googles IPO...so old, so old...)
Awesome!
awesome!!!
At 5:34 if you added 3 more infantry battalions that's the ideal division minus the field hospital (at least, ideal in hoi4)
I began writing a 1939 mod with your division layouts already set at start for all nations. quite easy to do actually.
excellent!
I'll let you know when I publish it on steam. thanks again.
yeah, please, if possible I will try to cover it, but no guarantees.
lol very nice channel! enjoy it
Thanks for the video, I've been desperately trying to learn all the NATO unit markers, do you have a image or web page that could serve as a quick reference? Extra points for a printable source.
Could you do one about Hungarian divisions in ww2? Love the channel😁
thanks for the info about the TO&E is close to what i use in HOI 4 can you please do a one about armor and one about motorized
Please make more of these for the other countries!
Hello, I really like your video that you are doing. I do have a questions where do you get your nato counters?
Nice work! , maybe somebody should make a mod that you get these division templates in game in the appropriate year.
For those wanting to play HOI4 with these divisions built into each nation try:
More Historical Division Structure Mod (As recommened by Military History Visualized Channel)
This mod can be downloaded here:
drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6zAZWYPsehKelRBQm1sOWFPZjg&usp=sharing
special thanks to:
Military History Visualized
For making a detailed video on what Hearts of Iron 4 divisions would look like if they were historical.
ua-cam.com/video/eyQmhrVKsc0/v-deo.html
This mod changes the starting division structures of the number of nations in the 1939 scenario. It implements all of the infantry division structures listed in the above
video. I have also taken a stab at creating more historically accurate armour, mountain, motorized and marine divisions (try not to laugh to much :)).
There are also templates for later war divisions included which are intended to serve as a guide for players wanting to evolve their divisions in historically accurate ways.
As the AI at present does not update it's divisions maybe it will also build these as well.
The 1936 scenario remains unaltered. Furthermore, a number a nations were given additional tech to better represent their technology levels in 1939 and to allow for the
above division structures to exist
Game mechanic Change:
Due to the fact that many armoured divisions included towed guns in the T.O.Es I have increased the based speed of towed guns to 10 (2 less than motorized units)
Installation Instructions:
Inside the SteamApps folder (usually in your program files directory)
Drop the history folder onto history folder located in SteamApps/common/Hearts of Iron IV folder
Open up the folder named common and drop the folder named units onto the folder named units located in SteamApps/common/Hearts of Iron IV/common folder
Love this
What about the early 1930s Soviet layout (included more men and artillery pieces, it was about 18.000 soldiers)? Also it would be good another layout for the Spanish military: the mixed brigade model 1935 (4 infantry battalions, 1 artillery battalion and two support units consisting of field hospital and engineer).
You do such a great job researching, qualifying your resources so we the public can understand what you are communicating, all in a succinct yet entertaining manner, all not in your native tongue. We should learn from you. Also like your sense of humor.
I think that appropriate US division would be 9 inf and 1 arty battalion, with arty and AT support. Probably they went for bigger arty battalions to have an appropriate number of artillery pieces, while not taking up so much "space" in the division planner.
artillery in game means also additional equipment, just like with inf eq.
whoever u are u are the best narrator
Given that anti-aircraft, artillery and tank destroyer battalions often weren't permanently assigned to divisions but may have been assigned at the corps level (which doesn't exist in the game), I think it would make sense to also add these otherwise non-division units to the division layout in the game because otherwise you end up with a distinct lack of , for example, anti-aircraft guns, which as you showed here only the Soviets actually built into their division structure and were elsewhere separate. Following these division layout strictly, you'd end up with an army with no AA guns, because the game doesn't have any organization structure outside of divisions to accomadate their existence.
Def more of these
Why didn’t you account for the anti aircraft or signals attached to the engineers? I’ve been using niehorster for a while and is that inaccurate? Or were you using actual equipment over tables
Edit: talking about the Italians
Very good video, but of course I have to nitpick. You called the developers/publishers for Paradox Entertainment when they are called either Paradox Development Studio (Developer) or Paradox Interactive (publisher)
I totally got out some leftover pizza when you went over the Italian division.
Damn you Wikipedia! You promised me that a Division held 4 brigades not 3 Regiments
well, depends, for a WW1 early war division, this is actually correct if I remember correctly. Nowadays, it might also be correct, but I haven't looked at a modern organization for ages. ua-cam.com/video/K3vTCOfKg0Y/v-deo.html
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Thanks for the information! Love the channel
This video is fucking fantastic!
if you do one for armour divisions I will put those in as well.
15:36 Oh Poland. Dedicated bicycle companies.
You had me at the entro
Can you do a video or two about the actual early-War US Military? As in, before the US entered the war? It's really hard to find information about the pre-1942 US Military (as it would have been during the Battle of Bataan and Corregidor), in part because secondary sources are a little biased toward the part of the war where the US was winning.