Scraping in a lathe's top slide with an tapered gib. Some BIAX-ing, some fixtures, some metrology and mostly about procedures/sequences when to do what. Enjoy
This is the very, very best demonstration video I have ever seen. No stupid musac, no yak, yak nattering on. Just straight forward, easily followed and practical. So easy for anybody to follow no matter which country one is in or which language one speaks.
I'm a machinist and just rebuilt a 1954 Heald grinder. down to the last bolt, rebuilt the electric motors, repainting everything etc. After watching you do this, I respect your patients and attention to all details! Nice job!
Anderson Scrapers offer a Master like the one you did the flaking on . They offer it as un-machined. So to finish it it would need to be scraped or if is just a casting it would need machining ,stress relief and the scraped.I will look into stress relieving in my area.
@Wehrmeyer1 No, you don't have to grind. But preferably, you stress relief after machining (and then maybe make a finish pass). Contignous cast iron (I think you call that durabar) has very little internal tension, but still I'd stress relief it (if you have the means) before scraping.
You could start with a chisel - the very first machine tool makers did! This is the way to get surfaces that are *flatter* than a machine tool can make, and is about the only way to generate a truly flat surface (actually three of 'em) from raw materials with no reference or measuring equipment; it's possible to get the surface flat and even to a few millionths of an inch with a bit of patience and care. It's a time-tested method that still works :)
@stillbashingmetal It depends. :-) The bigger the area to scrape, the bigger the pain. In this case, there wasn't a lot to take off. A few 1/100 mm maybe. But even 1 mm and more is doable. It just takes longer and you have to rough cut. The trick is to decide when to stop roughing. I'ts a common error to stop that too early.
You scrape the dovetail of the cross slide (not paying too much attention and ignoring the slanted side of the dovetail on the TS-side). Install the saddle and measure. Then adjust the dovetail on the HS-side until satisfied. Finish the TS-side of the dovetail, taking the HS-side as reference.
@turbotona25 That would be a pain! Normally, thats a job for a shaper/planer or a surface grinder. But if you are a masochist: a) a surface plate a bit bigger than the table or b) a camel back as long as the table plus a surface plate as wide as the table
another great video. can you show us the process of producing a prism? techniques for measuring, scraping, etc. i need a prism to suit my dovetails but do not know how to produce one. thnx
@Wehrmeyer1 I never tried to scrape nickel. But I already failed machining it. :-) Re the prism: Use CI, easier to scrape and better properties transfering the blue.
no. you must reupload with 009 sound system as the soundtrack. may i suggest "with a spirit"/// anyway, awesome vid. i have a deckel fp1 coming that i'm going to apply some of this great technique to.
I want to do this to my grizzley lathe that is completely garabage out of the box. I wish I had time and a scraper. I bought some carbide and weld a hand scraper to practice first.
I was given a Chinese lathe, a twin to the one you did.I took it because it would cut a metric thread which my other lathe does not. Unfortunately my friend had dissassembled the lathe to paint everything and nickel plate some areas. I have it running and now I am dealing with the plated cross slide. I dont know how a scraper is going to act when it crosses the nickel plated areas. Can I use steel to make my own prism? I was thinking of using key stock. Thanks for you work,
I found Cast Iron (grey) 1.5" x 1.5" x 12 " bar. I could then mill the 45 deg face on to the bar. Would I need to have the faces ground or is it practical to start scraping and remove the tool marks that way? As far as the Nickel plating I can have a plating shop chemicaly strip the parts.
have watched all your scraping vids. great help. i have a 30" lathe bed. it needs scraping. the only reference i have is 18x24 surface plate. is it possible to scrap the 30" bed with this surface plate as reference. will you explain the procedure?
Could you elaborate on how you made your 55 degree prism, in particular establishing the angle? The meterology and fixturing that you show in yoru other videos, with the exception of the banana ;-) is most helpful.
How would I know to either lap the V-way that is closer or farther away from my headstock on my cross slide to maintain perpendicularity to the headstock and lathe bed? Would I fist verify that the gib is flat and then insert it and its flatness will average out the v-way farther away from my headstock when I lap that side, and then lap the other v-way that is closer to my headstock? But the question is which v-way is obviously more away from 90 then the other?
Hi. Great video I am new to machining. One question what kind of power tool is that your using to do the scraping and is the cutter on it custom made. Thanks. Cheers
That prism was ground (I guess) by someone else. I do mine on the shaper. It's important to understand that the 55° (or whatever) don't have to be dead on. You'll scrape to YOUR master. If that master is a few minutes off, you lose just a few passes. Others do work with 45° prisms, but I personally don't like that at all. 60° is most common, followed by 55° and a few that are maybe imperial degrees. :)
Nick, from the chip formation on the shaper, it looks like the material of the prism is pretty ductile. Is the prism not made from cast iron bar? We are generally lead to believe that on cast iron can be scraped hence my question.
*IF* they are precisely ground, one side still lacks oil pockets. -> flaking. Tolerance: Well, your question is a bit vague. 0.001 … 0.01 mm. It simply depends on what exactly you do and want to get.
No, it clearly was cast iron. Depending on the quality of the CI, how sharp your tool is and the cutting speed, you do get chips. Short and brittle, but chips, not just dust.
This is the very, very best demonstration video I have ever seen. No stupid musac, no yak, yak nattering on. Just straight forward, easily followed and practical. So easy for anybody to follow no matter which country one is in or which language one speaks.
I'm a machinist and just rebuilt a 1954 Heald grinder. down to the last bolt, rebuilt the electric motors, repainting everything etc. After watching you do this, I respect your patients and attention to all details! Nice job!
Thanks for the video, Nick! I really appreciate them.
sweet stuff ! Nick,
thanks very much for your efforts & these videos.
Bitte zeigen Sie mehr wieder.
This is awesome Nick! Keep up the good work.
Btw. will you do the whole lathe? That would be something worth watching!!
This was the nicest comment ever! Tanks a lot!
Thanks again Nick. I want to see you do a planer mill.
Anderson Scrapers offer a Master like the one you did the flaking on . They offer it as un-machined. So to finish it it would need to be scraped or if is just a casting it would need machining ,stress relief and the scraped.I will look into stress relieving in my area.
@Wehrmeyer1
No, you don't have to grind. But preferably, you stress relief after machining (and then maybe make a finish pass). Contignous cast iron (I think you call that durabar) has very little internal tension, but still I'd stress relief it (if you have the means) before scraping.
You could start with a chisel - the very first machine tool makers did!
This is the way to get surfaces that are *flatter* than a machine tool can make, and is about the only way to generate a truly flat surface (actually three of 'em) from raw materials with no reference or measuring equipment; it's possible to get the surface flat and even to a few millionths of an inch with a bit of patience and care. It's a time-tested method that still works :)
Sure wish you lived next door to me and were willing to tutor. grin Thanks for sharing.
The tool is a BIAX power scraper, the cutter is one of theirs that comes along with it.
@stillbashingmetal
It depends. :-)
The bigger the area to scrape, the bigger the pain. In this case, there wasn't a lot to take off. A few 1/100 mm maybe. But even 1 mm and more is doable. It just takes longer and you have to rough cut. The trick is to decide when to stop roughing. I'ts a common error to stop that too early.
You scrape the dovetail of the cross slide (not paying too much attention and ignoring the slanted side of the dovetail on the TS-side). Install the saddle and measure. Then adjust the dovetail on the HS-side until satisfied. Finish the TS-side of the dovetail, taking the HS-side as reference.
@turbotona25
That would be a pain! Normally, thats a job for a shaper/planer or a surface grinder.
But if you are a masochist:
a) a surface plate a bit bigger than the table
or b) a camel back as long as the table plus a surface plate as wide as the table
another great video. can you show us the process of producing a prism? techniques for measuring, scraping, etc. i need a prism to suit my dovetails but do not know how to produce one.
thnx
@Wehrmeyer1 I never tried to scrape nickel. But I already failed machining it. :-)
Re the prism: Use CI, easier to scrape and better properties transfering the blue.
no. you must reupload with 009 sound system as the soundtrack. may i suggest "with a spirit"///
anyway, awesome vid. i have a deckel fp1 coming that i'm going to apply some of this great technique to.
I want to do this to my grizzley lathe that is completely garabage out of the box. I wish I had time and a scraper. I bought some carbide and weld a hand scraper to practice first.
Thanks for that!
I was given a Chinese lathe, a twin to the one you did.I took it because it would cut a metric thread which my other lathe does not. Unfortunately my friend had dissassembled the lathe to paint everything and nickel plate some areas. I have it running and now I am dealing with the plated cross slide. I dont know how a scraper is going to act when it crosses the nickel plated areas.
Can I use steel to make my own prism? I was thinking of using key stock.
Thanks for you work,
I found Cast Iron (grey) 1.5" x 1.5" x 12 " bar. I could then mill the 45 deg face on to the bar. Would I need to have the faces ground or is it practical to start scraping and remove the tool marks that way? As far as the Nickel plating I can have a plating shop chemicaly strip the parts.
Excellent demonstration, I found it very informative. Scheppach's comments were very rude and racist, you did well to shepherd the troll.
Great to watch and see how a pro does this. How much metal(mm/thous) are you scraping off?
have watched all your scraping vids. great help. i have a 30" lathe bed. it needs scraping. the only reference i have is 18x24 surface plate. is it possible to scrap the 30" bed with this surface plate as reference. will you explain the procedure?
Could you elaborate on how you made your 55 degree prism, in particular establishing the angle? The meterology and fixturing that you show in yoru other videos, with the exception of the banana ;-) is most helpful.
Great vid man but I have a question I would like to rescrap in the top of my Bridgeport table is that possible? What would I use as a gauge?
How would I know to either lap the V-way that is closer or farther away from my headstock on my cross slide to maintain perpendicularity to the headstock and lathe bed? Would I fist verify that the gib is flat and then insert it and its flatness will average out the v-way farther away from my headstock when I lap that side, and then lap the other v-way that is closer to my headstock? But the question is which v-way is obviously more away from 90 then the other?
Hi. Great video I am new to machining. One question what kind of power tool is that your using to do the scraping and is the cutter on it custom made. Thanks. Cheers
That prism was ground (I guess) by someone else. I do mine on the shaper.
It's important to understand that the 55° (or whatever) don't have to be dead on. You'll scrape to YOUR master. If that master is a few minutes off, you lose just a few passes. Others do work with 45° prisms, but I personally don't like that at all. 60° is most common, followed by 55° and a few that are maybe imperial degrees. :)
Nice job, I know how cutting dovetails can be a pain...
Nick, from the chip formation on the shaper, it looks like the material of the prism is pretty ductile. Is the prism not made from cast iron bar? We are generally lead to believe that on cast iron can be scraped hence my question.
How would you fix out of parallel dovetails or if one end is "thicker"? Re-machine?
Haha!
I also don't like them that much. But the other options are more time consuming and were not paid for.
I agree! Although, some talking is nice. Even if it is not my own language.
If the slides and gibs where precision ground would they be OK for a lathe without scraping? What are the tolerances you have to work in there?
*IF* they are precisely ground, one side still lacks oil pockets. -> flaking.
Tolerance: Well, your question is a bit vague. 0.001 … 0.01 mm. It simply depends on what exactly you do and want to get.
I am tired of videos with no 009 sound system in them. how am i supposed to hear the music when there isn't any?
@hla27b
No, just the top slide, not my lathe. A whole lathe in 10 minutes would be a challenge anyhow. ;-)
Do you know the difference between a hammer and a mallet?
I do!
@petsatcom
I guess that will happen this year. :-)
No, it clearly was cast iron. Depending on the quality of the CI, how sharp your tool is and the cutting speed, you do get chips. Short and brittle, but chips, not just dust.
Intelligent comments are always welcome.
The cat hates the gib strip at 8:57!!!
@billgator2005
Read the comments here carefully, and you'll have answers. :-)
It works if you use your brain.
Try it! Even if that's completely new to you.
But you still can unplug your speakers. :-)
I hope you copyrighted the dovetail measuring tool
Thanks for this video you are tops like Mr pete222 no BS just proper advise and a dislike for Chinese crap cant be bad.:-)
You shouldn't start new questions, if you already fail with the simpler ones.
Hammer and mallet was your problem, so focus on that.
dont be afraid to speak!
im pretty sure it technically is a chisel.