How to fit Individual Throttle Bodies - Part 3 - Return of the BRARP!
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2021
- The final section of How to Fit Individual Throttle Bodies to ANY ENGINE! This video focuses on the interaction with the ECU, which option to pick and how to set it up.
Link to 2nd Part - • How to fit Individual ...
Link to 1nd Part - • How to fit Individual ...
Exterior footage from the outside of the mini is from Philip Chapman from Fern Motorsport... - Наука та технологія
Great video! What kind of weird racing are you doing there? First gear only, constant burnout, half the time backwards - some kind of interpretive dance but with cars? 😁 I'm having success with my carbon nylon prints btw, first of four parts came out great, the rest is printing as we speak. Ludicrous strength/stiffness compared to anything I've ever printed before, thanks for the tip!
I like to think of it as Horse Show Jumping, but with cars... Its called Autotesting, and it's a strange little sport but great fun and a little mad! Not quite as mad as 100mph on a 50cc on the salt, but still fun!
Glad the CF Nylon worked out well... it's my favourite material, just a bit expensive. One more tip, try ASA, its not quite got the heat resistance of Nylon but still MUCH better than PLA and PETG and nice to print!
Looking forward to hearing the 2 stroke screaming!
When you know the Brits race a cheese on foot downhill, nothing seems weird
@@anidiotinaracingcar4874 lol the cheese normally wins.... its a very dangerous sport i rather go bull prodding than that
@@vasili1207 Now, imagine the bull running downhill with the cheese!
Always great to see youtubers help each other out!
you proved everything im theorically thinking about ITB
Sounds great man! Keep us posted on the longevity of the manifold!
Will do… it’s doing well at the moment 👍
awesome content and brainstorming with actual solutions and options! great video! love your videos and hope you continue for more mods!
Wonderful series. Looking forward to more videos
Very nice video, I have done a ITB conversion on my mx5 a few years ago and from my experience I agree with all the points you talked. There is one more important subject when tuning ITB. I'ts the accel enrichement and the TPS WOT curve. They will really impact the throttle response.
Absolutely agree, I was quite conflicted in the 3rd part of this video how deep to go into the tuning aspect, but you're right, ITBs are sensitive to Acc.Enrichments...
Which mx5? I own a 1.6 nb2 and i want to run itb from gsxr 600
These vids are so great! I'm glad to see your channel is growing :)
Cheers Bud! Plenty of good stuff planned!
Thanks for this series. I really enjoyed your teaching and presentation style. I've learned a lot and have some great tips for my own DIY ITB build on my Honda.
Glad you enjoyed it bud 👍 and Hondas on ITBs 😍
here I was, looking at getting a little old fun car, but considering how much I'd want to do to it when finally in my hands. always wanted an ITB setup, and my god you made it look so easy.
I better get to work
Yeah.. it’s amazing what you can do with a bit of editing! All I can say is do it… the world needs more BRAAAAARRRP!!!
HEY!! GREAT WORK ! I am new to your channel and binge watching...Looks to me u are THE channel to walk me in ,injecting my '98 ,xrv750 v-twin...
Greetings from Cephalonia Island ,Greece!
Great info mate - building a Zook G16B - diy harness and ecu - great adventure!
Keep up the videos
Keep at it man! All the late nights are worth it as soon as you hear that engine purr
very cool and I don't know how the hell you remember which gates to go thru which direction, amazing.
very very very easy to get it wrong... learning the tests quickly and not getting them wrong is a whole skill you have to learn.... its doesn't take much of a hesitation for the whole test time to be ruined!
thanks a lot for this video and channel. i’m gathering all the pieces of this puzzle for my mx5 at that moment. i’m reading a lot and watch lots of videos about it.
but for some reasons, that’s this video that makes me confident about it
so…thanks again
All I can say it get stuck in, it’s not witch craft, just get stuck in! If I can do it, anyone can!
Great video! Was not expecting that kind of event, very cool though. That thing looked very nimble and fun while changing direction.
It's more engine and tyre than anything else now and whilst it's great at the sport it's aimed at, its useless at anything else so it's not a great a car for doing the videos... I'm dying for a Miata or a BMW 3-series which both would love a K24a!
Great video well done mate. You’re info has helped me a lot 👍
Cheers bud! Glad it helps!
Made a set a few years back out of a set of scrap 40mm sidedraughts (Dell'orto if I remember correctly) for a Peugeot 1.9 Mi16 engine. With a set of cams and 8250rpm limit that thing sounded absolutely glorious
I had the chance to drive a warmed up 2002 with big Weber's hanging off the head. Sweet sweet setup. I'd love this on my 2.3 sohc.
Oh man, I’d love a 2002, or an Escort, in fact, anything from the 70s…. Apart from the clothes 😂😂😂
Very interesting set of videos. I'm planning on changing the Mazda "VRIS" system on my V6 K8 engine, much as you've described. The VRIS is a twin chamber, variable length set-up and it weighs a ton !!. The car is my own-design "Le Mans" style sportscar to be used for sprints and hill-climbs...The stock (Mazda MX3) ECU is around mid-90's vintage and, I think, can be improved on. Keep up the good work !
thanks for this amazing content man, really interesting!
Wait..no chit chat? That's what I'm here for mate. Thanks for the viddy from 'cross the pond!!
Well, I mean it’s still me rattling on for nearly 20mins! 😂
Dude at 13:42 seeing you drive like that, mad skill
Cheers buddy!
Great series!!
Thanks Jeff... I enjoyed making it!
@@MakingforMotorsport I have a 72 Jaguar XJ6 with the good 'ol straight 6 XK engine. If you have a suggestion for ITB's that would work on it, please let me know at jahmiata at gmail dot com. Cheers!
Quality vid chap, nice one 👍 I feel sorry for that poor little Mini though 😂
Tell me about it! I have to fix it! Mind you, there's really not much Mini left! 🤣
Keen to see more of this and the events you’re running in!
Have you thought about printing (or otherwise building) longer or shorter ram tubes/stacks to take advantage of the often trumpeted (pun intended) better for torque/high RPM instead of keeping with what’s available from the OEMs?
Abso-f^%king-lutely!!! In fact the rather ridiculous angle the ITBs are at is to buy space for exactly that, looking forward to getting to play with it!
You got me hook on speeduino. I've been interested in tuning a Honda k series engine, low cost, easy to find parts, potential for amazing power. I would love to see you do something with a Honda or even a Subaru engine. Great video!!!!
I do have plans to get a K24a together, but that's maybe a little ways off yet!
Very interesting series. I'll look into getting a single throttle body to slab on a small vw intake manifold. I'm thinking MAF and tps needed, will have to see what other sensors are needed - factory distributor vacuum advance curve seems decent so I see no reason to control ignition with the speedoino from the get go. Throttle body from a twin bike seems like a good source
Very nice..
Thank you! Cheers!
As I've said on a couple of your other vids, love the work. I enjoy the DIY stuff and I'll hopefully be able to gear up my 3d printer to doing some engine bay things I've always wanted to have a go at
I'd be keen to see more event reports/car setup stuff as someone who's also partial to a good motorkhana in Australia. Your autotests make us look a bit amateur!
Thanks bud, it means alot to know people are enjoying it! I am planning on doing some event reports but it's a whole other type of of video making, I had ago at the last even and it was nearly right, but I have another this weekend so I hope to get a report out next week 👍
@@MakingforMotorsport you produce high quality content, so I'm happy to wait and watch when it's ready.
I love the idea of eventing but I’d never remember the course 😂😅 great content 👍
I struggle! After a few rounds it sinks in! Cheers 👍
Same here. I’m keen to have a go at autosolo - all forwards and cones pointing the direction seems like good help for the memory-challenged! An interesting alternative to autotesting
@@emmajacobs5575 auto solo is great fun, I did and organised a lot when they started about 10years ago… different type of event, autosolos are like mini Sprints…. I will be doing a few once I get a more road focused play car! 👍
I have run an inlet manifold adapter for a carburettor printed in Nylon66 for some time now. It has been pretty good, but on highly stressed parts the material seems to suffer from creep over a long period of time. By beefing up the highly stressed parts I am hoping to eliminate distortion doe to creep - only time will tell and it's cheaper than using Carbon Reinforced nylon!
well done mate.
Cheers Buddy!
@@MakingforMotorsport have you thought about making the actual throttle bodies from Nylon-CF or similar?
great work mate, loving the content.. found you via the speedrindo stuff.. would love some more technical content around the different ECUs and their compatibility.. something I've found very hard to find on UA-cam.. otherwise keep up the great work!!
Cheers bud! Generally, if you do the work then all of this standalones are generally compatible with all the engines, it’s the rest of the car that’s the problem, most of this revolves around the Canbus comms, something I need to get involved with… watch this space…👍
@@MakingforMotorsport ohh yes canbus is a whole different animal.. I apologize I didn't explain myself correctly I was referring to all the different speedrindo boards and their features and functions. eg. some only have 2 injection outputs vs 6 or 8 on others? having someone with good video production skills doing something like that explaining the range would be very helpful as the only one I could find was done pretty average and didn't explain it all very well?
@@mrmcflunday2164 oh sorry dude, now I get you. No problem… I will put it on the list 👍👍
@@MakingforMotorsport sorry champion, my fault not being clear.. lol 🤣 it was late and my brain wasn't connected to my fingers fully.. lol
I can't wait tho do this to my car, i'm almost ready. Can you share your last print settings you used for the sainsmart filament? Thank you for your content!
It really sounds amazing!! Cant wait to build mine. And i think that what most people struggle with is setting the trigger wheel, there are just so many options for wheels and sensors, can you talk about your setup?
I tend to agree with you that crank trigger is a major issue for a lot of people and I didn’t include it in this for a couple of reasons, I was trying to keep it all ITB specific, and mine is an OEM solution in the block and off the crank so it’s all done for me.
What I am planning is to extend the ECU series to look at putting components together from the junk yard to get a working ignition setup, that’s what I’ve done and it’s not too tricky…
@@MakingforMotorsport junk yard parts are the best, even better when they come for free!
great diy video !!!! synchronization of the TB is necessary any time a bike has been dropped. or theyve been removed from bike for any reason..... it only takes a few minutes and makes the engine much happier as it will be off a tad thru the entire rev range we jus dont feel it as much up hi..... its mandatory you have the entire intake system in place or they may not be right
Cheers bud… I was split over doing the sync section but it would’ve delayed the video and it’s already been done, hence the link.
@@MakingforMotorsport no worries sir i was not in any way tryin to take away or criticize your work you did a great job.... bein a bike mechanic most of my life it was just a statement to hopefully add to all the good info you shared.... and besides i dont even make videos so im not one to judge others efforts to be honest .... im sorry if i sounded like a ass ....
@@gradyturner3367 absolutely not! I did mean to sound defensive, no problems!👍. The reason I mention is it’s a total balancing act what to put in these vids are what to leave out… I have done over an hour on ITBs and still skimmed some things (like balancing), I could talk forever on this kind of stuff, problem is no one would be watching!!! 😂
You’re inspiring me to have a crack at this. I’m armed with a 3D printer and a soldering iron so look out haha! Question; Is your manifold printed solid i.e., no infill? Cheers.
It got printed at 8layer walls, that means the runners are solid, as is the area underneath the bolt heads… but the “flange” was around 40% in gyroid, it could be stiffer but is working well for now
@@MakingforMotorsport I'm surprised You didn't use a hex infill for the flange.
Sounds good, I'm interested to see how the manifold fairs long term.
Well as long as there is adhesion between layers it should be good, plastic intake manifolds are a thing. I'd worry about reaction to gasoline maybe
@@akkudakkupl they are a thing, but most of them are made out of nylon 6/6... Often with fiberglass reinforcement inside.
So be interesting to see how this other material stands up to the heat cycling and pressure.
@@TravisFabel That stuff is printable too. I think you can get SLA prints with fibre reinforcement for example.
Just to ask if using the motorcycle Ecu remapped would work.
I'm thinking of tackling my first project with no experience or job.
But that part seems to be quite fun and challenging. So can we use a remapped motorcycle ecu?
Great video series! Is it possible to manage injection with ITB's only running a crank position sensor, or is it also needed to run a Cam position sensor?
You can batch fire injectors with just a crank trigger, you need the cam trigger to run sequential injection.
You could probably normalize the change in cross-sectional area during throttle body opening pretty easily if it's a cable driven TB. Even if it wasn't a perfect circle, with a few measurements you'd have a useable geometry to calculate the actual cross-sectional area and then invert the curve. [EX: if you start with y=x^2 you rearrange the equation to x=sqrt(y)]. Then, to convert this to from cartesian equations into a polar equation and this can be used to create your new throttle pedal cam. I believe this is more or less what the OEM's do to some extent in order to linearize throttle pedal travel.
That’s exactly what OEM do (or did when cars still had throttle cables), they also used twin throttles (small then big). This helps controllability from the drivers seat, however the ECU doesn’t care how smooth it is, in AlphaN you still need to concentrate at that end of the table as that is where the big change in engine conditions are 👍
@@MakingforMotorsport You could take what he said in reverse... And use the opening per throttle percentage to even out the lower airflow changes and come up with your numbers for your table rows mathematically rather than guessing about where you want to see more.
That would make the numbers in your table appear more linear.
Not incredibly important but that is the way to do it with math rather than eyeballing it.
I have the same ITBs in my Polo. How did you solve the choke? Did you left the honda actuator or something else? I dont have place between intake flange and itbs
I'm thinking about fitting CBR1000 ITBs to my rover 214Si to go racing, what do you think? I'm worried about the sensors since I'm terrible at wiring
Really keen to see how the printed plenum holds up over time to oils in the engine bay, and heat cycling.
From memory you printed this in nylon with CF reinforcement, is that correct?
It is CF Nylon and I'm keen to find out how it gets on aswell!
This might be something ill be doing. Bht have a few other problems to solve first. Keeping power steering working ect. I plan on doing some british rounds next year
Doing it on the already very stripped down Mini made life easier for sure! Assuming you mean autotesting for the British rounds? Looks like you do some already, looks good👍
Great info in this series. I've been looking at building a set of itbs for my project, and wanted to try assembling them with a plenum and running them with the stock maf sensor. Mainly just to see if I can. Is there any particular reason you know of why this wouldn't work?
Cheers bud! You absolutely can run ITBs like that, in fact it’s how most OEMs run ITBs… the E36 M3, R33 GTR and the 20v Corollas run like this….
The tricky bit for this installation would be making sure there are no vacuum leaks as all the air needs to come through the MAF and with a stock ecu making sure the TPS works and feeds back the correct voltages for closed and wide open throttle.
The other thing which would be complicated but not impossible is the injectors, ideally you need to retain the same injectors as your stock ecu will be calibrated for those injectors, not the ones that come with your ITBs. If they are the same package style (Bosch ev6 etc) then I am sure you could make them fit, but something to bare in mind…
Final thing you may find the acceleration enrichment (driven off the TPS) isn’t perfect now but that’s unlikely to really be a problem… (if you want perfection you need a mappable solution 👍).
Best of luck with the project… let me know how you get on! 👍
@@MakingforMotorsport The plan is to modify a stock manifold as the base, allowing me to use the stock fuel delivery and each runner has a port for the pcv that i plan to use for vacuum. I also should be able to adapt the factory tps.
I'll probably end up making some videos on the process, it'll be a cool setup if it works out.
Thanks for the reply, ill be looking forward to your videos.
Hi Nate. Planning on using a speeduino for my M65 supercharged mini. What trigger wheel are you using for your ignition control?
On the vauxhall there is a 60-2 trigger directly on one of the crank counterbalances which I am using.
I don’t know the mini engine but there would already be one on there…. If it’s a simple xx-x missing tooth type you can program speeduino for it easily on tunerstudio….
Have you thought of using two VE tables? Use the TPS position for the switch point? Would allow a full table for the first 20% over movement.
Interesting, no I hadn’t thought of that… I know you can switch to other tables by going to Speed Density but what your suggesting is staying with TPS/AlphaN…. I like it! Gonna look into it…
@@MakingforMotorsport Its what I'll be using. One table for 0-20% and one for 20%-100%. Should sort the drivability out without taking up too much memory.
Review brand ITB (individual throttle body) after market and standar manufacture 4 cylinder, 6 cylinder
Thanks
Another great video! 👍🏻
Just a thought on your “1% is changed to to 2%”. I’ve not used your tuning software, but on my Adaptronic ECU, ‘idle mode’ is activated when TPS is less than 1%. Do you have a similar setting meaning the table auto corrects to 2% since 1% is still ‘idle’? 🤷🏻♂️
I've still not had any answers back from the internet answer factory on that... so yours is the best answer I've heard...👍😂
@@MakingforMotorsport in a room full of blind people, the one eyed person is king! So I’ll take that win! 😉 Thanks for the videos. 👍🏻
@@johnblackwell5805 lool I thought this was a Portuguese popular "saying" 🤣 like the on José Mourinho used one time "the dogs bark and the caravan passes"
Great video do you think I could pretty much use the same itb for a 1.8l
I think so! but still something narrower might be better unless you've got all the revs and very lumpy cams...
Are you running a wideband?
Need a video looking down the ITBs full throttle
Ha! Difficult to get that on the driveway! Next event, there’ll be a UA-cam Short coming your way! 👍
For road n race the alpha N hybrid tune is a good way to go. More steps on the learning curve in tuning but well worth it in the end. Tried itb mode but no luck getting it tuned right, totally hated it. Maybe just din have the brains or time to spend on it.
Often with this stuff its just what you understand, pure alphaN works well for me so I'll likely just stick with it, especially with the limited time on events, as soon as I have a road play car I will hopefully get more time to learn other methods...
Hey I was just thinking, if your using itb's on a daily driver would you recomend building a plenum and sticking with the map sensor or would you still tune using throttle position?
I can’t really recommend either at the moment, as I’ve not tried it, but lots of people recommend using MAP for slow running for road based ITBs.
For this signal you do need a plenum, but not before the ITBs, as this will still be at atmospheric pressure, you need to link all the runners between the throttles and engine to get an average signal.
You’ll see my setup in the previous vid, it works well enough to run the engine.
Man can drive 🙂
Cheers 👍…. Not fast enough yet tho!
Did you sync the damn TBIs?
You don’t autotest against Willie keaning do you? Good pal of mine 👍🏼 good videos mate, clearing up the black magic to do with itbs and mapping 👌🏼
Yeah, I do, and Willie is damn quick… working on the car now to do battle again this year! Glad you enjoyed the vids…
Did installation of bike carbs improve the performance? What were drawbacks of bike carbs? I'm thinking of replacing a single carb with bike ones on a every day - weekend car. Is there any worth?
Going multi-throttle is worth it for the sound alone... I didn't do any back to back testing but as I said in the first part, you can easy loose low end torque, which you wouldn't want for a daily. Next time I start this from scratch I'm gonna do some rolling road pulls for added Science!
How good is the "autotune"??
(looking into this for a "performance" turbo road car using a speeduino)
Autotune works really well, especially if you can run the car at steady state, it effectively uses the O2 sensor to "goal seek" a target AFR that you enter into a table, essentially closed loop running but it changes the VE table so the changes are permanent. Its not the golden ticket, doesn't help you with enrichments or spark tables and won't save a god awful tune but to get you to 95%, it's pretty useful.
I see you're using the ///M colours in your logo...will we see some S50 goodness or something at some point?
AAhhhh, the Bayerische Motoren Werke runs deep in these veins! At last count I've had 5 difference era 3-series.... but 6 sounds like a better number 👍 (just need to convince the missis!)
Would it work with standard ecu or will it freak out? (vauxhall c16se)
Mario… very good question… new video coming out today where I look at exactly this!
Hi man! As You I built my car for fun in garage on jackstands, and as You, I fully wired my speeduino ecu on my own, and began to play with TunerStudio, now, if You didn't see Andy Whittle's channel yet, I suggest You to do, really helpful!(this involve MegaLog viewer install) For the Kpa column I will say to put back the value maybe changing the numbers by 5 in 5 starting from 100 then 95 and so on. My cruising Kpa is around 50 60, and idle is around 35 /40 I reach the very bottom of the table by lefting the gas pedal. So basically you are focusing on a underused region by typing 0 2 4 then jumping on 30 then 50, leaving at the important region 30 40 50 less calculation capacity refered to what is happening on the intake manifold. Make sure that AFR VE and Spark tables have the same numbers on RPM stripe and Kpa column. I found useful mapping the engine without Accelerarion Enrichment, then adding some extra fuel later. Keep going mate because this is too funny, sometimes is a bit frustrating because you don't know what you are doing, but soon You'll become more and more conscuious on what to do, why do this instead of that or say "nope!" and go back.
You are going like a train I really like what You are doing! Go man I'm with you
Good luck and have fun. If You need any kind of help ask! I will try to help if I can.
Cheers!
Cheers buddy! Yeah, the values in the vertical work fine for me using Alpha-N (TPS), but using kPa (Speed Density) your numbers sound about right! I'm planning to have a play with Speed Density soon as lots of people keep recommending it....
The process you've described is pretty much what I did, leaving the enrichments to last. Worked like a charm 👍
Hi. Can i run this setup with stock ecu or i have to buy something programmable?
Well Viktor… if you check out my other videos I am doing a series on exactly this right now!
@@MakingforMotorsport yes after i write the comment isl saw the video.
sorry 😅🤣
Because your throttle is a rotating valve, surface opening is a Sine function. So your scale (rounded) should be like that : 0 1 2 5 9 13 19 26 33 41 50 59 69 79 90 100. There should be a box in speeduino software to automaticaly switch between a sine and a linear scale if you have a linear or a rotating throttle body.
What really matters is the change between the load sites and the proportional change between them, i nearly went into this (had graphs and everything) but it made the vid REEEEALLY long and don't change the message, but if the difference between load sites (either revs or load) is purely linear then the interpolation between cells will take care of that, so if there is purely a linear response of airflow to throttle you'd only need 2 sites, 0 & 100%,but it's no like that, and the same goes for your sine theory, it theory it's a decent place to start but in reality it's gonig to behave differently, therefore all you need to do is start sensbile and change it when required 👍
You need fluoro lined silicone hoses as the petrol attacks the silicone hose & destroys it very fast.
What Vauxhall engine is it you have in the mini ?
The engine code is a Z16SE, but it’s basically the more modern version of the Nova GTE engine, 1600cc, 8v OHC with multipoint fuel injection…
@@MakingforMotorsport can’t think of a better group of engines my brother use to have a 1998 a reg corsa b breeze model with the single point injection 1.4 version of that engine and my dad had the multipoint injection 1.4 in a 1991 Astra estate and that was a flying machine very responsive but I think the police had it hoped up a bit as it was bought from retired police stock. I’m very impressed with your videos on how you make your very own go faster parts on your 3D printer. I also got quite into your videos about the speeduino and building one.
dyno numbers??
Is that Seighford airfield?
Good spot! It is indeed!
@@MakingforMotorsport I live nearby. If the wind was in the right direction I would probably be able to hear you!
I'm fitting ITBs to my car using the stock ECU - pray for me lol.
🙏🙏🙏 you are in my thoughts my friend 😂
What kind of auto cross is this?
It’s called Autotesting and it’s basically precision driving, forwards and backwards, round a set course against the clock.
I’ve done an event report video which explains it kinda step by step and has more footage…
I really want yo learn tuning so bad, just don't know where to start.
how to size itbs on turbo engine?
You don’t really need them… you can have them if you want, but if I am right only the skyline GTR has them on forced induction….
All the benefits (throttle response, pulse tuning, better breathing etc) matter a whole lot less when there is a turbo bolted on…..
@@MakingforMotorsport i know that maybe r35 gtr and some porsches are too, im looking for mainly throttle response but i fear the 44mm body i have is too big for my 20valve 4cyl
🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
I’d guess your not talking about the football?
is that a 1.3 engine?
1600cc… keep thinking about the 1800cc bigger brother but I don’t think power is my problem!
@@MakingforMotorsport better keep the small block engine for your type of racings. 1600 standard I think is 100hp and a 1800 115hp, I have a 2000 8v that I want to put in a mini sheel to but for hillclimbing racing
@@natalinowerty 100bhp with ALL the torques I’d happy with… it takes a lot to squeeze that from an A-series…. I love Minis but for normal racing just remember, it’ll not handle like a “mini” any more…
I DISAGREE WITH THE CLOTHES COMMENT