@GuerrillaRadio - I agree, along with his explanation of proper carb tuning requiring consistent fuel pressure, and the fuel pressure regulator returning all fuel above the proper rate the carb needs back to the fuel tank. If I understand correctly, his arduino is controlling an idle air control valve. There is a lot of interest for him to sell the arduino program he wrote. Last I checked, it looks like he is either unsure about putting it on the market, or is working in the background on scaling up production. Either way, it could be a long while before it is available. If he tries to get a patent, it is very likely he will get cornered by big oil to sell it so they can put it on a shelf underground like everything else that properly atomizes liquid fuel to a vapor.
That's very possible, but from the seemingly honest reaction of complete surprise in the video at the gas pump, I doubt it. That might have come into play later, it just doesn't seem like it on his initial test run. Carbs do atomize fuel better than EFI, but it's going to take a lot more experimentation just than a smaller carb to fully atomize the fuel and provide efficient air with vaporized fuel to have 75% of the original power and anything over 30mpg. It is a big step in the direction toward better fuel vaporization than anything else that has surfaced lately.
@@ChootEmChootEm "Carbs do atomize fuel better than EFI..." That depends on the EFI system. Atomization with carbs is better than port injection, certainly, but not better than some staged injection systems, or systems that inject fuel well before the throttle body (Formula 1, for example). If using a venturi to atomize fuel made any sense, you'd see racers pumping fuel through venturis with some sort of electronic fuel control system.
@PistonAvatarGuy - Agreed, context for the comparison especially with the Saturn and other inexpensive modern cars is carb vs direct port injection. I'm not familiar with F1 or other high end systems but will learn more now that you've mentioned them. With the scenarios you've brought up, it would be cool to see the results of using a carb in front of a TBI or other ways to give the fuel more time and turbulence to atomize even more. The other context here is fuel economy over power. Racing systems are entirely focused on the shortest route to the quickest acceleration regardless of the cost, where the goal for the average commuter is enough acceleration to not be a safety hazard and the lowest fuel cost with the cheapest and most accessible parts from a scrap/salvage yard, or very inexpensive replacement parts - like Thunderhead using a $38 Chevy idle air control valve, a very inexpensive carb, an inexpensive fuel pressure regulator, and a roll of plastic media in one of the least expensive 3D printers on the market. The next step that I see to helping more people get close to duplicating and improving the maverick setup, is to begin working together on a program for raspberry pi and keeping everything open source.
I'd like to see a dedicated fresh air inlet hose from the front of the grill direct to the carburetor and, separately, a oversized hose from the grill to the carb that would surround the carb and would isolate it from the hot engine compartment air. I am very happy to see others pick up on what ThunderHead289 has started!!!
He didn't start anything. They were doing this in the 1970s during the fuel crisis. Magazines like Popular Mechanics had articles on how to do it. Gas prices went down and people stopped doing it. Gas prices went up and people are playing with it again. There are videos on UA-cam that are ten years old.
Only thing is now, especially here in the UK, we have yearly checks (MOT's) where exhaust emissions are checked, and so, fitting a carb like this would probably fail the car during an MOT check, otherwise, i'd possibly think about doing this myself, especially when fuel here (as of 4th July - Happy Independence Day to you guys in 🇺🇲) we pay on average £1.927 per UK litre - $2.34 per UK litre, so what's that $8.85 per US Gal?
To combat the vapor lock you can put coils of fuel line in a coffee can and fill it with ice. You can seal the top of the can. That will cool the fuel going into the carb. We used to do this all the time for consistency when drag racing. It was called a cooling can..and they make them.. but we made our own back in the day.
If he's bypassing fuel back to the tank, which he is, he could just wrap some fuel return line around the carburetor bowl to cool it (Since the bowl fuel itself isn't being circulated back to the tank). Then that would help cool the carb itself, and he could soak a fuel supply line in ice water per your suggestion. Otherwise the bowl contents aren't being cycled back to the tank itself, so thermal conductivity into that chamber would be as low as the engine fuel demand, which is lower than the pump supply rate.
@@Sevalecan Yep, thats an even simpler version of what I was thinking. They already have a low pressure fuel pump that they said was universal, so if they ran another one with water they could have another tank for water to continually add to the washer fluid tank.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Racing Lawn mowers the vapor lock does not surprise me on that carb. As I told Thunder a Kohler 27hp Pumper carb would be a way better Lawn tractor carburetor choice. Feel free to use the Email address posted on my channel's about section if you would like some carb talk. Making lawn tractors that do 0 to 40mph+ in 100ft is my thing :)
any one play with those Japanese direct atomizing carbs where the metering rod under the slide has the main jets? ua-cam.com/video/1HgXsgHSBbY/v-deo.html
heya I know this is kinda out of left field but do you think that carb would suit a low RPM motorcycle okay (like 8k redline, cruise 3-4k)? my Goldwings are fucked and this would be a miracle fix.
That's something I wanted to try since the age of 19, thanks for this experiment. :) Also thanks for converting (or using) metric and litres/100km, this makes it *so* much more relaxed to watch your videos for most Europeans... ;)
I'm doing the same thing with a '53 M38a1 Jeep with the original 134 hurricane engine. After watching this video, I'm beginning to believe that it really only works, mpg wise, with a 300 or bigger motor. With a larger motor, it causes more of a vacuum in the intake, pulling apart and atomizing the fuel better. Like Thunderhead 289 says, timing is very important to. It takes a guru like him to dial everything in and sync it all together. Great video. Good to see others trying other versions of this experiment.
Former automotive tech here (left to study electrical engineering) The P0420 code indicates low catalytic converters efficiency, but it checks the efficiency differently than you describe. Oxygen sensors don’t sense hydrocarbons in the exhaust, they sense oxygen. A properly functioning catalytic converter (that is receiving the correct exhaust mixture) will use up most of the oxygen in the exhaust, and will also store some extra oxygen during the periods when the fuel mixture swings slightly lean (to help make up for the periods when it swings slightly rich.) The ECM checks the function of the catalyst by comparing the oxygen sensor(s) before the catalyst to the sensor after the catalyst. The comparison algorithm is pretty complicated, but mostly it is checking to see how similar the sensors read. A failing catalyst will produce nearly identical sensor outputs on the sensors before and after the catalyst. A good catalyst will produce and almost steady voltage around 0.6-0.7V on the output. There is much, much more that goes into that, but it would make for a very long and boring post here. Regarding the P0105 pending code that was set, that is most likely due to the fact that the MAP sensor voltage was changing as the engine load changed, but the TPS sensor voltage was constant. This wouldn’t make sense to the ECM since the only way the load could change that much is if the throttle was opening. On a newer car with a more advanced OBD system, it would set a correlation code for this, basically saying that the MAP sensor output, while within its minimum and maximum specification, doesn’t make sense. Different manufacturers will program their OBD systems to trust some sensors more than others and it may be that GM/Saturn chose to trust that the TPS is more reliable than the MAP, so it is setting a MAP sensor code even though it is the TPS sensor that isn’t changing as it should.
I'd imagine it would be interesting to see how he goes about making a closed-circuit steam engine like the Doble E-20. Using plans for a solar turbine I can see the circuit would take cool water from the reservoir, run it through a water-water exchanger, then to the boiler, the steam goes to the engine, the exhaust steam runs through the water-water exchanger to preheat the water for the boiler, the exhaust steam-now-hot-water runs through a big radiator with a decent fan on it and returns to the water reservoir. That way it runs for as long as there is fuel or so long as the water reservoir doesn't heat up too much, maybe a temperature gauge monitoring each stage? Lots of gauges to monitor stuff, like reserve water temp, post-exchanger water temp, post-boiler steam temp and pressure, exhaust temp and pressure, post-exchanger steam/water temp and pressure, post-radiator water temp, then fuel level and pressure, boiler flame air-fuel ratio (should be 14.7-to-1 but its advised in a boiler/heater to add 10-25% extra air so 16.2-to-1 to 18.3-to-1). Then the engine itself needs some upgrades to work right, like modifying the crank to a simple intake-exhaust 1-to-1 with the crank with a few degrees timing advance, high pressure intake and exhaust header seals, much stronger valve springs and lapping the valves, a strong intake valve to alleviate intake pressure that could hurt the intake valve, an oil level gauge might be useful because its likely going to consume more oil due to steam entering the crankcase so crankcase ventilation is needed to let the steam out, this is why a reserve water level gauge is needed as the tank will slowly drop in level over time driving. Steam engines are complex, yo! XD
Check out the crazy Russian, I think his channel is Garage46- He has loads of fun, making car engine pistons out of wood, out of plastic... And he converted a car engine to run on steam. He's insane, but knows what's what.
@@maxinlux6570 Garage 54. And yeah, they did a steam powered Lada, but that was an open-circuit steam engine and I've not seen a single steam powered car on UA-cam with a closed-circuit steam engine that isn't the Doble E-20 that Jay Leno owns. The great thing about a steam powered engine though is that he can leave it in the highest gear and just come to a stop, reverse the intake-exhaust order and start moving backwards at top speed XD
That carbs 15 buxish vs more than 15 bux for anything connected to the efi... Adding a 1" or more spacer between the carb and intake usually helps to lower vapor lock issues...
This reminds me of when I was stationed in Guam, a civilian, that I worked with, had a small pickup truck, that he put motorcycle carbs on, and he had the windshield washer spray water into the intake. He claimed it ran fast, and the water injection was like a turbo. But I never saw it. He only talked about.
woooo!! missed you last sunday :( but I understand these awesome videos take time!! i’m busy right now, but i got the notification and saved it!! can’t wait to watch at lunch
It always cracks me up seeing so many AFR gauge kits come with VW/Audi sensors. That connector is a direct copy of the front O2 sensor on my 02 Jetta and my 01 A4
I have owned a number of LPG fueled cars. 2 of them with Vialle-LPi (liquid injected LPG). It's a great fuel: cheap, high octane rating so it's not prone to detonation, and in the proces of evaporation it extracts heat from the intake air and from the engine itself so the evaporation has an intercooler effect= better cylinder filling. Last but not least, it burns very clean! LPG has lower energy density so you do lose some power (i'd say about 20%) but if you adapted you engine specifically for LPG you could regain some of that because LPG can run on a compression ratio of 14-14,5 : 1, easily. Some downsides: LPG burns hotter, resulting in faster wear of valves and valve seats. LPG/air mixture is harder to ignite so the engine needs to have an ignition system that is always in top shape.
It is essential that we enable young people to see themselves as participants in one of the most exciting eras in history, and to have a sense of purpose in relation to it.
"You need to be aware of what others are doing, applaud their efforts, acknowledge their successes, and encourage them in their pursuits. When we all help one another, everybody wins." JIMBO is another great talent in the talent show of life...
@@ocdman202 I don't have scientific data, but I think plenty of perfectly nice weekends are being given over to the binge craze. We are binge - watching videos from ROBOT CANTINA😛😛😋😋
I love the little kubota 3cyl diesels in my tractors. I think i have a 600 something, a 700 something, and a 900 something. I could see the larger versions with turbo being a DOWNRIGHT FEASIBLE powerplant for a light vehicle. Also, LOL at the lifter shenanigans at the end of video. Letting that go by as if the narrator was looking the other way.. hilarious.
As soon as you took of and said it was 96 degrees... I thought vaper lock .. then 2 seconds later, you said it! 🤣 There's not too many of us left who have experienced that. Just ask my 81 bronco back in the summer of 91!! 🤣🤣🤣
Back in 1990, I got 21 mpg from Colorado Springs to Austin, using the stock 2 barrel carb on a '73 4 door Chrysler Newport with the stock 400 engine (with "awesome" 8.5 compression, it still drove nice) and stock auto transmission. loved that car and wish I still had it
Although the carb is smaller, it limits the airflow. The stock throttle body is actually decently efficient. The carburetor gives you more finite control of the lower airflow settings, but anything above wide open throttle, it's a huge restriction in airflow. The same power could be made at a much lower throttle position with the stock throttle body. I'm impressed that you got close to the fuel economy of efi; the constant trimming of the air:fuel ratio is hard to beat with an old school carb. One note, is the fuel tank still pretty full on the Saturn? If so, that may be where some of your performance loss has occurred. If you add 70-100lbs of fuel from a full tank vs your 0-60 test on fumes with the efi, it's a difference in the test weight. Economy and performance will look slightly worse than the baseline test. I couldn't help but bust out laughing while seeing your wipers scrub away at the windshield as you drove on. I found it very funny. My 2 year old and 4 year old were wondering what I found so funny. They did like the blue tractor that you passed so I had to rewind that part a few times. Thanks for the entertainment and information in this video. Keep up the good work and have a Happy Independence Day!
@@robotcantina8957 It's only a difference in the carb tank weight though, you were also running a full stock tank with EFI and consumption is so close that weight loss is a negligible factor. The only real difference is the additional weight of the carb tank.
I think it's the carburetor float bowl that got empty. Also the additional non-jetted air inlet is the cause for a too lean high rpm mixture. Ideally you close that inlet vacuum line. I agree that the carburetor is a limiting factor, and causing the engine to have to work much harder for less air/fuel mixture, much like an engine works less efficient at higher rpms as it does at lower rpms. One of the ways to help the engine reach better fuel economy, is create an atkinson design, limiting the exhaust valves from releasing all the exhaust. Thus also limiting vacuum resistance losses. Not sure if a backyard mechanic can actually create an atkinson design engine, other than making it more permanent by limiting the exhaust flow (possibly by squeezing a steel pipe in the exhaust, forcing the exhaust to go through a much more narrow exhaust tubing. Or, just weld close the exhaust tip. Most exhausts have sufficient cracks and holes where exhaust is leaking from anyway.
I guess the physics behind the reason a simple carb can get about the same fuel efficiency as an EFI is mainly due to fine tuning close to optimal air-fuel ratio. I also think that a tiny carb can improve fuel "atomisation" by turbulence, without introducing more pumping losses than driving with the same performance from the EFI. Pumpng losses are still really bad for fuel economy, and so is low actual compression ratio. If the stock Saturn EFI can be fooled to behave well during the cylinder deactivation experiment I think there will be some really nice figures. Cylinder deactivation should be a good way to hit the BSFC sweet spot. I was chasing that BSFC sweet spot for a couple of years and tens of thousands of kilometers with my 1975 Saab V4. I managed to cut down fuel consumption to about HALF of what's normal with such a car, without any modifications to the engine! 4.1 liters per 100 km is rediculously low for a 1500cc engine from the 1960's. The "magic" that made this possible is extreme ecodriving, by combining two methods called "Driving Without Brakes" and "Burn & Glide".DWB is about planning your driving, reading the traffic carefully and being good at estimating your inertia. B&G is hitting the Brake Specific Fuel Economy sweet spot by letting the engine either run near full power around best torque, or not at all, not even on idle. -I have installed switches on the shift stick that allows me to easily turn the engine off and on. The Saab 96 V4 freewheel makes it really easy to shift between the neutral and 4:th gear over and over again, but I have tried these methods of extreme ecodriving on more modern cars, without turning the engine off, and got amazing results even there.
@@elektroarkivet This is all well and good, but as you write its mostly your driving style that made the difference, I am unconvinced any carb can come close to the efficiency offered by modern designs with DFI.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Hey Jimbo, thanks for another interesting video! Thanks for enduring all that heat to bring us the video (that gets old fast). Driving since 1971 in Florida, I have seen my fair share of carburetor vapor lock and stuck heat riser valves. I'm kind of surprised you were plagued with it, considering how much air was passing through that carburetor, there should have been considerable temperature drop through the venturi. I'm not surprised gas mileage was similar to stock; the SC1 and SL1 were optimized for economy. Of the 3 Saturns we had in the family at one time (1994 SC1, 1995 SC2, and 1999 SL1), I regularly got 42 mpg (5 speed SL1) on the Interstate. With the mileage/wear on that engine, the test results are "iffy" at best. That engine was not that durable; after 100,000 miles, the cylinder wall sealing noticeably drops off. I discovered this the hard way during a 2,000 road trip, halfway through the trip, the compression dropped so much, the engine lost about half its power. As a temporary fix, I changed the motor oil to 20W-50 which enabled me to get back home. One of my hopes with your round of testing, was to see if you could run the engine super lean (16 - 20:1) and end up with improved fuel economy. However to do this, you would need some way to fully vaporize the fuel before entering the engine, as liquid fuel does not burn in the combustion chamber and fuel in a gaseous state ignites much easier. Giving the state of the Saturn engine, its best just to move on to the next engine transplant. I am especially interested in seeing the fuel mileage the diesel turns in.
An excellent metric for fuel economy is BSFC, having the capability to measure this allows for real-time results, no messing around with other methods. This is what professional calibration and hardware engineers refer to as a quick way to see changes to fuel economy. You can literally sit there, and dial the engine calibration and instantly see the change in fuel economy. I am blown away no one is doing this measurement in the backyard, not specifically picking on Robot Cantina but more pointing at race shop youtubers who have dynamometers or people trying to sell HHO generators for fuel economy. Measuring BSFC is not hard, you need brake torque and fuel flow, the formulae is BSFC = fuel consumption / Power.
Its almost like those people you mention dont want people to know the true result.... hmmmmm..... Yeah, not much to be "blown away by" when considering that, in my book.
Always look forward to your shenanigans!!! I miss doing things like this… I owned 3 Saturn SL2’s… had a blast with those cars. Thanks for the great content Robot Cantina. Can’t wait for the next episode 👍🏼
People never understand what I mean when I tell them to buy a SL or SC if they're just needing a reliable and economic car for cheep. I loved my little SL1. They're the definition of shit box, but they do shit box well.
@@kansasrose2909 ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Here I am again, pawing the UA-cam icon on my phone at 8am on Sunday morning like a lab rat on a feeder bar. I’m a big fan of the Frankensaturn, and I can’t wait to see what it does with not only the straight Kubota, but the eventual pulse and turbojet booster engines.
You got about what I figured you would on overall mileage (41). A cool air intake surrounding the whole carb running from the front of the car, and a cool can for the fuel lines filled with ice water would get rid of the vapor lock issue (and increase mpg's). Most all EFI systems have a return line to the tank so fuel circulates constantly back to the tank and won't vaporize in the lines, so no vapor lock issues there. The 3 cyl. Kubota sounds like a real winner. I don't imagine it will be big on acceleration, but the fuel mileage ought to be phenomenal. You may need to add an extra gearbox to keep it in it's upper RPM range where it's most efficient.😉 Diesels (especially small diesels) don't like to be lugged below their optimal rpm, and you'll have overheating issues, not to mention sub-par horsepower...
You seem to cover most questions viewers may have! I like your thorough methods behind the winging it! The simple spray solution is epic. I wonder if the intake runner has coolant flowing through it to prevent icing in the winter time? That should be disabled for these summer experiments. You would probably need to add length to the intake and mount the carb out front--make it ram air--if you wish to stay carburetor and go back to cleaning bugs with the washer fluid. All the thrown out parts, you should also consider hypermiling the saturn engine, taking it to 55, 60 mpg--add a turbo blah blah. Keep the good content coming!
When I was a about 13 me and a buddy had this old deathtrap boat with an old straight 6 with a downdraught carburetor. Somebody told us it was the carburetor. We didnt know anything about carburetors but we understood what they did. We replaced it with a metal bug spray container with some holes drilled in it and a needle valve dripping gas into it. It only ran one speed but since it didn't have neutral or reverse We just pulled the alligator clip off the battery to stop it. One day we were cruising down the bay and the local coast guard boat passed us. One of them looked close then tapped his buddy on the shoulder and pointed than they went to the skipper and pointed at us. That was back in the 60''s. I spent 2/3 of the time on the streets. The only adult supervision I had was the town cop who gave me the belt ................ a ...... uh ........ few times. When I got board I used to go to the coast guard station and play pool for free. They just told me to go home and get it fixed but then after a closer look at it, they decided it was too dangerous so they towed us to the fish house and told us not to move it till they looked at it. We had another old boat we put together. It ran 5 mph faster than the coast guard boat. Every time we saw them we would go tease them by pulling up beside them and gunning the engine a few times. They told me for two years to get it registered every time I went to the station to play pool. Those were the good old days..
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Just got my 2001saturn sc running that been sitting 5yrs. .you can't kill these cars. Ive had 3 that just wouldn't die!! And I'm definitely a truck girl but facts are facts
“There is no road too long to the man who advances deliberately and without undue haste; there are no honors too distant to the man who prepares himself for them with patience.” ― Jimbo === we can't wait to see your next video!! The diesel engine you have put into the Saturn will be on the road soon, right ?
Really enjoying your videos. Just found the channel and these experiments are very entertaining. Thanks and keep it up. Looking forward to the next segment on the diesel portion of the series.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
you were right , i understand wide band and narrow band sensors to be either more or less accurate for a certain range of fuel to air. I dont know which is better or which is which even. :)
Maybe if you extended the carburetor away from the intake manifold to get it away from the heat it might help your vapor lock issue and could also give you some ram Air effect for slightly better performance
I got 360,000 miles out of my 2000 SL2 , with the original engine and clutch! Burned oil like crazy, but only died when a valve burned and ran on 3 cylinders. And got 37 mpg for 10 yrs every time! Saturn is junk? Hardly! Best car I ever owned!
The thought of putting a lawnmower engine into any car might sound ridiculous, and it is, but it seems to work well in the tiny, lightweight Honda Insight. Robot Cantina - a UA-cam channel dedicated to swapping different engines in a Honda Insight - started off a four-part series by showing viewers its low-powered hybrid car. To get things started, they sourced a 212cc, 6.5-hp Predator motor from Harbor Freight, which only cost them $99, and then linked the engine to a CVT matched with a five-speed transmission in order to make it work in the car.
“There is no road too long to the man who advances deliberately and without undue haste; there are no honors too distant to the man who prepares himself for them with patience.” ― Jimbo === we can't wait to see your next video!! The diesel engine you have put into the Saturn will be on the road soon, right ?
An interesting test would be to run the original EFI but using the carb as a throttle body (no fuel supply to the carb). By suspicion is that you'd get better than 42MPG and better acceleration than the carb on it's own.
mmmm... wouldnt the EFI need to be tuned for tge smaller intake dia, or it would end up rich by a lot? pretty sure without a TPS installed inline, the car will just run its default fuel mapping, and end up not starting at all... then again, im not a professional automotive mechanic, just a state certified master motorcycle mechanic, not a car mechanic.
@@honeybadgeractual5734 Most car engines rely mostly on the MAP sensor with the TPS more of a backup than anything else. One of my cars had a TPS fail a while back and it ran fine. As far as the MAP sensor is concerned a smaller throttle body is functionally the same as limiting how far the original throttle body can open.
Just get rid of that crude unsofisticated stone-age carburetor. It's rediculous to think it could do a better job then the OEM EFI-system. You just have to limit the maximum opening of the OEM throttle body. Maybe you could re-tune the EFI to run an AFR that is tuned for best mileage (= 16-17:1) instead of cleanest emissions. (Which would be 14.7:1, probably what the stock EFI tuning is aiming for) It wouldn't surprise me if the car would get even better mileage then 42mpg.
As someone who has a 1998 Saturn SL1 sedan with the same powertrain arrangement as this video's coupe, I can confirm that 42+ MPG is very achievable during warmer months (39 - 40 MPG for colder months). Best I've attained has been 45.6 MPG on a 350 mile trip. Like most fuel economy, it really stems from driving behavior on top of the condition of the vehicle. Most of these cars are beat to crap. I picked-up mine last year (2nd owner) and it only had 46K miles under its belt, so mine is probably the exception and not the rule.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
The thought of putting a lawnmower engine into any car might sound ridiculous, and it is, but it seems to work well in the tiny, lightweight Honda Insight. Robot Cantina - a UA-cam channel dedicated to swapping different engines in a Honda Insight - started off a four-part series by showing viewers its low-powered hybrid car. To get things started, they sourced a 212cc, 6.5-hp Predator motor from Harbor Freight, which only cost them $99, and then linked the engine to a CVT matched with a five-speed transmission in order to make it work in the car.
I had a 95 SC1 in the late 90’s for a few years. Bought it as a repo. That car took a beating but man she was so fun to drive and so practical. But she ate a quart every 700 miles 😂. Love your experiments.
why no music at the start? Also; the vacuum leak on thunderhead's isn't controlled by the phone, it's controlled by an arduino. He uses an app to monitor the AFR, put in the desired AFR, and to turn it on/off. Also also; there's a decent chance going smaller will eliminate vapour lock, due to a combination of evapourative cooling, and the fuel constantly cycling through the carb and never sitting around.
maibe put a swan neck on the intake to get the carb to sit though the hole in the bonnet right in the open air , should help keeping it cool raising the fuel pressure slightly might help raising the cooking point of the fuel used
@@kansasrose2909 "You need to be aware of what others are doing, applaud their efforts, acknowledge their successes, and encourage them in their pursuits. When we all help one another, everybody wins." JIMBO is another great talent in the talent show of life...
@@ocdman202 “There is no road too long to the man who advances deliberately and without undue haste; there are no honors too distant to the man who prepares himself for them with patience.” ― Jimbo === we can't wait to see your next video!! The diesel engine you have put into the Saturn will be on the road soon, right ?
S-series are the cheapest manual cars around. I had two and totally fun. The o2 sensors/cats go because the engines burn a lot of oil. No drain holes in between the piston rings. The fix is new pistons and rings, or just drive the hell out of it til it eats more oil than fuel. I want to see a SW with a 1.8t swapped into it. Would be a mean sleeper.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
I don't have scientific data, but I think plenty of perfectly nice weekends are being given over to the binge craze. We are binge - watching videos from ROBOT CANTINA😛😛😋😋
No human investigation can be called real knowledge if it does not pass through mathematical demonstrations; and if you say that the kinds of knowledge that begin and end in the mind have any value as truth, this cannot be conceded, but rather must be denied for many reasons, and first of all because in such mental discussions there is no experimentation, without which nothing provides certainty of itself.
Mathematics is not a deductive science - that's a cliche. When you try to prove a theorem, you don't just list the hypotheses, and then start to reason. What you do is trial and error, experimentation, guesswork.
Go with an S&S carb from a Harley motor cycle. It's a larger 1v sidedraft carb. Too small a carb will kill torque which will hurt your mpg because you need more throttle to achieve the same power. 41-42 mpg is about the best you can expect no matter what the method of fuel deliver given the cars weight and aero dynamics. A long tube header and free flowing exhaust will also help with low end torque which means less throttle needed for cruise. Strip the car down weight wise and clean up the aerodynamics would be the only way to get a serious mpg improvement. The very boxy Ford Festiva got 45-mpg with a carb'd engine back in the '80's. No reason a slicker Saturn couldn't achieve it. I'd also check to see if any of the pushrod GM V-6 engines bolt up to the Saturn trans and then try the lawnmower carb set-up. Once again, low end torque is the key to good fuel economy.
My Saturn sl1 5-speed got the best mileage in the 50-60mph range. Even through foothills at just above sea level I could get to 40mpg. On flat ground I could see it increasing just a bit more.
The slower you can go in top gear the better the fuel economy. It just gets more painful the slower you go if you have any major distance to travel! Especially sharing the road where it's single lane.
@@volvo09 Not exactly true, there is a break even point were frictional losses in the engine are enough to give worse economy, and it is for many cars, at a much higher speed than the "slowest in top gear" one. About 45-55 mph is where most cars hit their best MPG, so quite a bit faster than the 35mph or so many cars can manage in top gear.
Cylinder deactivation would be interesting to see! I pushed that concept to the extreme about ten years ago by removing two pistons entirely, removing the valve lifters and grinding some additional clearance to the camshaft. I then drove almost 40.000 kilometers with the poor thing, so I got quite good statistics. Fuel saving was about 10-15% while keeping my usual everyday pace. I had to rev the remains of the engine a lot more to reach the speed, probably wasting some fuel. One thing I noticed was that engine braking was reduced a lot. -It felt as if there was almost none! Keeping the pistons in the engine but deativating the valves isn't optimal, but I guess the saving could still be noticable due to higher load (closer to BSFC sweet spot) and lower pumping losses when the engine runs on a more open throttle. I made my little Fiat engine a 180 degree crank to make mechanical balance better, but instead I got really uneven torque that made driving on high gears really shaky. (but I did have a cool engine sound) 🙂 When keeping all four pistons in the engine I guess 360 degree firing is the best, and to minimize torsional vibrations in the crank I guess it's best to fire cylinder 2 and 3 since they are the closest pair. Here's an old video of my Fiat 127 experiment: ua-cam.com/video/GcKNt6QxEYE/v-deo.html I'm looking forward to see the Saturn with the little Kubota! I have smaller cars (vintage SAAB 96) and a 600cc two cylinder Kubota that I've wanted to try in a car for a long time. It's only 12hp so I will probably have to make some extreme body modifications (to the car). :D
I really don't know..? Man you think we come to hear that? Yes... I do! Honesty very rare these days. You look like the smartest guy ever by saying the truth. Love that. Everything you do will be successful.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Nick Holonyak Jr., Pioneer of LED Lighting, Is Dead at 93 He invented a visible red-light diode. His 41 patents also included lasers that enabled DVD and CD players.
I don't have scientific data, but I think plenty of perfectly nice weekends are being given over to the binge craze. We are binge - watching videos from ROBOT CANTINA😛😛😋😋
Thanks for adjusting your Metric units to better match our conventions, it's noticed and appreciated! These are great series, BTW, doing the sorts of conversions I've often wondered about but never had the time or motivation.
If you limit the amount of air going into an engine, you have to limit the amount of fuel in order to get the proper air to fuel ratio. With a small carb, you're going to have it "floored" more often in order to get the performance you need. So rather than put a lawnmower carb on it, all you really have to do is put something under your gas pedal so you can't push it down as far. That way, you limit the air coming in (which causes the computer to limit the fuel coming in) with the butterfly valve rather than just a smaller opening of the lawnmower carb, AND you get the efficiency of fuel injection. Basically you can increase your fuel economy much more by just not pushing your foot down as far than you ever could by using a carburetor of any kind.
@@evanc6110Electronic Fuel injection will always provide more power and greater efficiency than a carburetor. If you tape a block of wood under your gas pedal and you test EFI and a carb, the fuel injection will have more power and more efficiency than a carburetor. Carburetors were always tuned slightly rich because it was safer on the engine, but the ability to monitor and change the air/fuel mixture and timing means the EFI can adapt to changing conditions like outside air temperature and pressure. Those conditions make all the difference, but a carburetor has no idea what the outside conditions are, so when it's tuned, it's a compromise.
@@chrisbrooks6697 Brilliant solutions don't occur spontaneously, especially for the kind of complex problem we see at long view. They come from working through ideas, options, alternatives, even failures and mistakes, and combining them in new ways to find the best solution Keep up the good work Jimbo..
I like this channel, your content, humor, know-how, and I really want to stress that I appreciate the nod to Thunderhead308's previous experimenting with this subject. Some days I hop on UA-cam and in my feed I see something cool, unique, new, or a reimagining of an established technology/process/idea. Within a couple of days of that, I'm suddenly inundated with variations of the same concept by a dozen different channels, with little to no citation or reference to the original video's creator. It's just passed off as their own creative work essentially, by not referencing where they saw it. Or maybe it's a coincidence, and through our shared consciousness the idea is broadcast universally.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
@@mommapanda5736 ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
I still own my 1997 Saturn SL. Has 267000 miles on it and has been the best most reliable car I've ever owned. I've done all my own work on it and its lasted this long. Your video about fitting it with a lawn mower carburetor was hilarious. I got the best laugh out if it. Its really too bad Saturn was shut down by GM. They made a very good reliable low maintenance car that was easy to work on.
3:05 I notice the little notches at the bottom, if you're going to be using the "top off to figure out gas millage" method, place it on the slower setting, it provides a more consistant top-off point. Using the fast one usually goes +/- 1L , I use the extra time to clean the windows, check the oil and dump my trash, can usually get all done within a 50L topup
A moped carb yes it has an accelerator pump that lawn mower carbs don't have and don't forget in the thunderhead 289 videos he said that he thinks the bend in the intake hose between carb and intake also helps with atomization.
I'd say the first thing to do is replace the Cat. It's almost guaranteed to be clogged. Take it up a hill and if it bogs down you have your culprit. You mention the cat early on but neglect to note that non- top tier gas will definitely clog the convertor. Yes, a clogged converter will kick out that code. How do I know? I owned 3 saturns and a cruze that all had the same problem.
@Robot Cantina It was nice of you to credit ThunderHead289 for his original experiment. Yes, vapor locking was the one remaining persistent problem that he had. But I do believe that the electonic app that he was using made more than a negligeable difference to the overall performace. I think that the difference is in the details.
@@kansasrose2909 "You need to be aware of what others are doing, applaud their efforts, acknowledge their successes, and encourage them in their pursuits. When we all help one another, everybody wins." JIMBO is another great talent in the talent show of life...
@@doperks7271 ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
LOL. "It has 215, 000 miles on it. It's a Saturn, so it's probably been burning oil for 150, 000 miles." Cracked me up. This is amazing. A lawnmower carb does as well as EFI? Actually that's pretty amazing, isn't it?
@@waylonmccrae3546 Brilliant solutions don't occur spontaneously, especially for the kind of complex problem we see at long view. They come from working through ideas, options, alternatives, even failures and mistakes, and combining them in new ways to find the best solution Keep up the good work Jimbo..
Music has always been a matter of Energy to me, a question of Fuel. Sentimental people call it Inspiration, but what they really mean is Fuel. I have always needed Fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio.
Don’t let others tell you what you can’t do. Don't let the limitations of others limit your vision. If you can remove your self-doubt and believe in yourself, you can achieve what you never thought possible
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
you need to work more on the carburator, use a return line to alleviate vapour lock, hook up the TPS so the ECU can adjust timing properly and not just based on RPMs, remember the TPS is stuck at no throttle and RPMs are high = overrunning the carburator is a device from the stone age and still manages to keep up with state of the art electronics
@@jonflach9432 Just hook the TPS lead to a junked sensor with the clockspring removed (if it even has one) and dial in 1/3 throttle with a screwdriver.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Id be interested to see you pick this project up again in the winter time, I would have also considered hooking up a larger reservoir for the washer fluid sprayer. Back in the 60s some companies used a bag instead of a hard plastic container due to AC and other emerging tech taking hood space
@@ocdman202 The thought of putting a lawnmower engine into any car might sound ridiculous, and it is, but it seems to work well in the tiny, lightweight Honda Insight. Robot Cantina - a UA-cam channel dedicated to swapping different engines in a Honda Insight - started off a four-part series by showing viewers its low-powered hybrid car. To get things started, they sourced a 212cc, 6.5-hp Predator motor from Harbor Freight, which only cost them $99, and then linked the engine to a CVT matched with a five-speed transmission in order to make it work in the car.
I just bought a new pict 34 bug carb for 70 bucks to the front door.Works perfect.Prolly flow as good as the factory fi on this beast.Small is good to a point.
I'd do an extreme fuel economy mods/tests. Now that we know baseline is 42MPG, lets modify the car by all means possible to eek out even more economy. Maybe different tires, aero modifications, shedding weight. Playing with the engine; like the mentioned cylinder deactivation, ecu mods (or even a standalone speeduino perhaps?), hot air intake, removing unecessery accessories... Would be fun to see how much mpgs you can actually eek out from a car like that.
*hot* air intake, yes indeed. Power suffers like no other but with the EFI controlling fuel delivery, bring the intake air over the exhaust manifold (ahead of the IAT sensor, of course) to get it nice and toasty... and thin... means the ECU supplies less fuel to maintain the AFR.
Pretty darn crazy this got pretty much the same mpg.. while thunderhead's v8 got double or more the mpg (still 40ish, but original was 20 or worse, iirc.)
“There is no road too long to the man who advances deliberately and without undue haste; there are no honors too distant to the man who prepares himself for them with patience.” ― Jimbo === we can't wait to see your next video!! The diesel engine you have put into the Saturn will be on the road soon, right ?
Move your fuel Wye closer to the carburetor. That will keep the fuel cooler closer to the carburetor due to the flow. Also add a variable restriction in the return and close it right up until the needle unseats and back it off.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
I had a 97 SC2. I was the second owner and sold it with only 60k miles on it in 2016. It was fully loaded and i miss it every day despite having a 2000 Firehawk as my toy. The Saturn was surprisingly comfy got amazing mileage and was actually fun to drive.
1:34 "40psi...if not a bazillion comments on why we didnt do that". How a normal mind works. How my mind works: "We've defllated the tyres to 15psi". *sits back and waits for the comments.
I have a feeling Thunderhead's air valve and Arduino combination is a crucial part of the mix.
@GuerrillaRadio - I agree, along with his explanation of proper carb tuning requiring consistent fuel pressure, and the fuel pressure regulator returning all fuel above the proper rate the carb needs back to the fuel tank. If I understand correctly, his arduino is controlling an idle air control valve. There is a lot of interest for him to sell the arduino program he wrote. Last I checked, it looks like he is either unsure about putting it on the market, or is working in the background on scaling up production. Either way, it could be a long while before it is available. If he tries to get a patent, it is very likely he will get cornered by big oil to sell it so they can put it on a shelf underground like everything else that properly atomizes liquid fuel to a vapor.
@@ChootEmChootEm I'd bet money that he's just running the system lean off camera in order to achieve the kind of mileage that he did.
That's very possible, but from the seemingly honest reaction of complete surprise in the video at the gas pump, I doubt it. That might have come into play later, it just doesn't seem like it on his initial test run.
Carbs do atomize fuel better than EFI, but it's going to take a lot more experimentation just than a smaller carb to fully atomize the fuel and provide efficient air with vaporized fuel to have 75% of the original power and anything over 30mpg. It is a big step in the direction toward better fuel vaporization than anything else that has surfaced lately.
@@ChootEmChootEm "Carbs do atomize fuel better than EFI..."
That depends on the EFI system. Atomization with carbs is better than port injection, certainly, but not better than some staged injection systems, or systems that inject fuel well before the throttle body (Formula 1, for example). If using a venturi to atomize fuel made any sense, you'd see racers pumping fuel through venturis with some sort of electronic fuel control system.
@PistonAvatarGuy - Agreed, context for the comparison especially with the Saturn and other inexpensive modern cars is carb vs direct port injection. I'm not familiar with F1 or other high end systems but will learn more now that you've mentioned them. With the scenarios you've brought up, it would be cool to see the results of using a carb in front of a TBI or other ways to give the fuel more time and turbulence to atomize even more. The other context here is fuel economy over power. Racing systems are entirely focused on the shortest route to the quickest acceleration regardless of the cost, where the goal for the average commuter is enough acceleration to not be a safety hazard and the lowest fuel cost with the cheapest and most accessible parts from a scrap/salvage yard, or very inexpensive replacement parts - like Thunderhead using a $38 Chevy idle air control valve, a very inexpensive carb, an inexpensive fuel pressure regulator, and a roll of plastic media in one of the least expensive 3D printers on the market.
The next step that I see to helping more people get close to duplicating and improving the maverick setup, is to begin working together on a program for raspberry pi and keeping everything open source.
I'd like to see a dedicated fresh air inlet hose from the front of the grill direct to the carburetor and, separately, a oversized hose from the grill to the carb that would surround the carb and would isolate it from the hot engine compartment air. I am very happy to see others pick up on what ThunderHead289 has started!!!
that but also have an exit for the air flow, so the carby is in a duct getting max air flow
He didn't start anything. They were doing this in the 1970s during the fuel crisis. Magazines like Popular Mechanics had articles on how to do it. Gas prices went down and people stopped doing it. Gas prices went up and people are playing with it again. There are videos on UA-cam that are ten years old.
Only thing is now, especially here in the UK, we have yearly checks (MOT's) where exhaust emissions are checked, and so, fitting a carb like this would probably fail the car during an MOT check, otherwise, i'd possibly think about doing this myself, especially when fuel here (as of 4th July - Happy Independence Day to you guys in 🇺🇲) we pay on average £1.927 per UK litre - $2.34 per UK litre, so what's that $8.85 per US Gal?
@@thedarkknight1971 What for, if I may ask? Do you think a small carb would be any better on fuel than a fuel injected system?
@@vintagethrifter2114 Question is, even with higher fuel prices, is it any better for consumption? I dont see why it would be, really.
To combat the vapor lock you can put coils of fuel line in a coffee can and fill it with ice. You can seal the top of the can.
That will cool the fuel going into the carb.
We used to do this all the time for consistency when drag racing.
It was called a cooling can..and they make them.. but we made our own back in the day.
Happy 4th to one and all...🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸💥💥💥💥
I saw a power tour car just fill his trunk with ice so it would cool the fuel cell
If he's bypassing fuel back to the tank, which he is, he could just wrap some fuel return line around the carburetor bowl to cool it (Since the bowl fuel itself isn't being circulated back to the tank). Then that would help cool the carb itself, and he could soak a fuel supply line in ice water per your suggestion. Otherwise the bowl contents aren't being cycled back to the tank itself, so thermal conductivity into that chamber would be as low as the engine fuel demand, which is lower than the pump supply rate.
@@Sevalecan Yep, thats an even simpler version of what I was thinking. They already have a low pressure fuel pump that they said was universal, so if they ran another one with water they could have another tank for water to continually add to the washer fluid tank.
@@gammaxi1275 Looking forward to another great video here. 😊😊
That car was doing 42 mpg before? Hell that's amazing. Don't touch it!!
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Racing Lawn mowers the vapor lock does not surprise me on that carb. As I told Thunder a Kohler 27hp Pumper carb would be a way better Lawn tractor carburetor choice. Feel free to use the Email address posted on my channel's about section if you would like some carb talk. Making lawn tractors that do 0 to 40mph+ in 100ft is my thing :)
any one play with those Japanese direct atomizing carbs where the metering rod under the slide has the main jets? ua-cam.com/video/1HgXsgHSBbY/v-deo.html
Mower racing is badass
@@redlight3932 I love the comments on these channels.
heya I know this is kinda out of left field but do you think that carb would suit a low RPM motorcycle okay (like 8k redline, cruise 3-4k)? my Goldwings are fucked and this would be a miracle fix.
Thanks for doing these videos. I appreciate your unique automotive/electrical skill set.
Looking forward to another great video here. 😊😊
That's something I wanted to try since the age of 19, thanks for this experiment. :) Also thanks for converting (or using) metric and litres/100km, this makes it *so* much more relaxed to watch your videos for most Europeans... ;)
You Sir produced an amazing experiment. Thank you... very well done!
Looking forward to more great experiments and videos from Robot Cantina.
You cannot comprehend how excited I am to see a kubota diesel saturn!
Will be awesome!
Needs a turbo kubota!
@@michaelrobinson2444 oh heal yeah
I'm doing the same thing with a '53 M38a1 Jeep with the original 134 hurricane engine. After watching this video, I'm beginning to believe that it really only works, mpg wise, with a 300 or bigger motor. With a larger motor, it causes more of a vacuum in the intake, pulling apart and atomizing the fuel better. Like Thunderhead 289 says, timing is very important to. It takes a guru like him to dial everything in and sync it all together. Great video. Good to see others trying other versions of this experiment.
I come here for the videos and stay for the great comments.
@@kansasrose2909 Looking forward to another great video from Robot Cantina.
Man, 10 months ago $1.20/litre for fuel would have been a dream come true. It was over $2 then. Which is around $7.50/gallon
Former automotive tech here (left to study electrical engineering)
The P0420 code indicates low catalytic converters efficiency, but it checks the efficiency differently than you describe. Oxygen sensors don’t sense hydrocarbons in the exhaust, they sense oxygen. A properly functioning catalytic converter (that is receiving the correct exhaust mixture) will use up most of the oxygen in the exhaust, and will also store some extra oxygen during the periods when the fuel mixture swings slightly lean (to help make up for the periods when it swings slightly rich.) The ECM checks the function of the catalyst by comparing the oxygen sensor(s) before the catalyst to the sensor after the catalyst. The comparison algorithm is pretty complicated, but mostly it is checking to see how similar the sensors read. A failing catalyst will produce nearly identical sensor outputs on the sensors before and after the catalyst. A good catalyst will produce and almost steady voltage around 0.6-0.7V on the output. There is much, much more that goes into that, but it would make for a very long and boring post here.
Regarding the P0105 pending code that was set, that is most likely due to the fact that the MAP sensor voltage was changing as the engine load changed, but the TPS sensor voltage was constant. This wouldn’t make sense to the ECM since the only way the load could change that much is if the throttle was opening. On a newer car with a more advanced OBD system, it would set a correlation code for this, basically saying that the MAP sensor output, while within its minimum and maximum specification, doesn’t make sense. Different manufacturers will program their OBD systems to trust some sensors more than others and it may be that GM/Saturn chose to trust that the TPS is more reliable than the MAP, so it is setting a MAP sensor code even though it is the TPS sensor that isn’t changing as it should.
I come here for the videos and stay for the great comments on this channel.
@@kansasrose2909 I come for the comments and stay for the fun. !
@@mommapanda5736 You are in for quite a treat , reading
thru all these posts
CONGRATULATIONS JIMBO.. over 100k subscribers! 👍👍 ROBOT CANTINA
continues to provide the entertainment and fun that viewers enjoy!
Thank you for including metric values makes the video even more enjoyable
Dear Robot Cantina super nice video i cam across tour channel today and realy like your channel keepmup
The good work you got yourself a new sub
Is this a case of genius see === genius do?
Have you ever considered using a steam engine in your experiments? The fuel flexibility would be endless.
Gassifier is better and already done alot.
I'd imagine it would be interesting to see how he goes about making a closed-circuit steam engine like the Doble E-20. Using plans for a solar turbine I can see the circuit would take cool water from the reservoir, run it through a water-water exchanger, then to the boiler, the steam goes to the engine, the exhaust steam runs through the water-water exchanger to preheat the water for the boiler, the exhaust steam-now-hot-water runs through a big radiator with a decent fan on it and returns to the water reservoir. That way it runs for as long as there is fuel or so long as the water reservoir doesn't heat up too much, maybe a temperature gauge monitoring each stage? Lots of gauges to monitor stuff, like reserve water temp, post-exchanger water temp, post-boiler steam temp and pressure, exhaust temp and pressure, post-exchanger steam/water temp and pressure, post-radiator water temp, then fuel level and pressure, boiler flame air-fuel ratio (should be 14.7-to-1 but its advised in a boiler/heater to add 10-25% extra air so 16.2-to-1 to 18.3-to-1). Then the engine itself needs some upgrades to work right, like modifying the crank to a simple intake-exhaust 1-to-1 with the crank with a few degrees timing advance, high pressure intake and exhaust header seals, much stronger valve springs and lapping the valves, a strong intake valve to alleviate intake pressure that could hurt the intake valve, an oil level gauge might be useful because its likely going to consume more oil due to steam entering the crankcase so crankcase ventilation is needed to let the steam out, this is why a reserve water level gauge is needed as the tank will slowly drop in level over time driving.
Steam engines are complex, yo! XD
Check out the crazy Russian, I think his channel is Garage46- He has loads of fun, making car engine pistons out of wood, out of plastic... And he converted a car engine to run on steam. He's insane, but knows what's what.
@@maxinlux6570 Garage 54
@@maxinlux6570 Garage 54. And yeah, they did a steam powered Lada, but that was an open-circuit steam engine and I've not seen a single steam powered car on UA-cam with a closed-circuit steam engine that isn't the Doble E-20 that Jay Leno owns. The great thing about a steam powered engine though is that he can leave it in the highest gear and just come to a stop, reverse the intake-exhaust order and start moving backwards at top speed XD
You might not have gotten there fast, but you still got there.
"Hill Billy Hood Scoop" had me rolling!😁
Here's to the Hill Billy Hood Scoop. 🎟🎟🧧🧧🧧🚜🚜🚜🚜
That carbs 15 buxish vs more than 15 bux for anything connected to the efi... Adding a 1" or more spacer between the carb and intake usually helps to lower vapor lock issues...
I think for giggles a Mikuni vm34 is a solid motorcycle carb that might yield better performance and be a little less likely to vapor lock.
I had a similar thought! It would be cool to see that Saturn set up with a Mikuni!
You can get flat slide pwk style carburetors all the way up to 42mm on amazon for around 30$
@@IllegallyAcquiredKIA Happy 4th to one and all...🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸💥💥💥💥
@@kansasrose2909 The next holiday I look forward to
is Labor Day..
Would the SmartCarb motorcycle carb cut some of the corners toward a system that could be tuned quicker with fewer components?
This reminds me of when I was stationed in Guam, a civilian, that I worked with, had a small pickup truck, that he put motorcycle carbs on, and he had the windshield washer spray water into the intake. He claimed it ran fast, and the water injection was like a turbo. But I never saw it. He only talked about.
Good ol' P0420 code, literally the bane of my existence when I owned a 2012 Nissan Altima 2.5
woooo!! missed you last sunday :( but I understand these awesome videos take time!! i’m busy right now, but i got the notification and saved it!! can’t wait to watch at lunch
It always cracks me up seeing so many AFR gauge kits come with VW/Audi sensors. That connector is a direct copy of the front O2 sensor on my 02 Jetta and my 01 A4
I'd love to see a propane conversion in the future.
That would be neat to see...
Propane is more then gas = stupid
I have owned a number of LPG fueled cars. 2 of them with Vialle-LPi (liquid injected LPG). It's a great fuel: cheap, high octane rating so it's not prone to detonation, and in the proces of evaporation it extracts heat from the intake air and from the engine itself so the evaporation has an intercooler effect= better cylinder filling.
Last but not least, it burns very clean!
LPG has lower energy density so you do lose some power (i'd say about 20%) but if you adapted you engine specifically for LPG you could regain some of that because LPG can run on a compression ratio of 14-14,5 : 1, easily.
Some downsides: LPG burns hotter, resulting in faster wear of valves and valve seats.
LPG/air mixture is harder to ignite so the engine needs to have an ignition system that is always in top shape.
In Dominican Republic its common to see
@@MrWashesp We are looking forward to another great video from
Robot Cantina.
It is essential that we enable young people to see themselves as participants in one of the most exciting eras in history, and to have a sense of purpose in relation to it.
"You need to be aware of what others are doing, applaud their efforts, acknowledge their successes, and encourage them in their pursuits. When we all help one another, everybody wins." JIMBO is another great talent in the talent show of life...
@@ocdman202 I don't have scientific data, but I think plenty of perfectly nice weekends are being given over to the binge craze. We are binge - watching videos from ROBOT CANTINA😛😛😋😋
@@kansasrose2909 Is this a case of genius see === genius do?
Amazing work! Thanks for the data! I imagine a Kabuda diesel will use less fuel, than a run of the mill Kubota diesel 😁
I love the little kubota 3cyl diesels in my tractors. I think i have a 600 something, a 700 something, and a 900 something. I could see the larger versions with turbo being a DOWNRIGHT FEASIBLE powerplant for a light vehicle. Also, LOL at the lifter shenanigans at the end of video. Letting that go by as if the narrator was looking the other way.. hilarious.
Have you seen Robot Cantina's latest video??
As soon as you took of and said it was 96 degrees... I thought vaper lock .. then 2 seconds later, you said it! 🤣
There's not too many of us left who have experienced that. Just ask my 81 bronco back in the summer of 91!! 🤣🤣🤣
Back in 1990, I got 21 mpg from Colorado Springs to Austin, using the stock 2 barrel carb on a '73 4 door Chrysler Newport with the stock 400 engine (with "awesome" 8.5 compression, it still drove nice) and stock auto transmission. loved that car and wish I still had it
Although the carb is smaller, it limits the airflow. The stock throttle body is actually decently efficient. The carburetor gives you more finite control of the lower airflow settings, but anything above wide open throttle, it's a huge restriction in airflow. The same power could be made at a much lower throttle position with the stock throttle body.
I'm impressed that you got close to the fuel economy of efi; the constant trimming of the air:fuel ratio is hard to beat with an old school carb.
One note, is the fuel tank still pretty full on the Saturn? If so, that may be where some of your performance loss has occurred. If you add 70-100lbs of fuel from a full tank vs your 0-60 test on fumes with the efi, it's a difference in the test weight. Economy and performance will look slightly worse than the baseline test.
I couldn't help but bust out laughing while seeing your wipers scrub away at the windshield as you drove on. I found it very funny. My 2 year old and 4 year old were wondering what I found so funny. They did like the blue tractor that you passed so I had to rewind that part a few times.
Thanks for the entertainment and information in this video. Keep up the good work and have a Happy Independence Day!
Good point, the Saturn fuel tank was completely full when we were road testing the carburetor system.
@@robotcantina8957 It's only a difference in the carb tank weight though, you were also running a full stock tank with EFI and consumption is so close that weight loss is a negligible factor. The only real difference is the additional weight of the carb tank.
I think it's the carburetor float bowl that got empty. Also the additional non-jetted air inlet is the cause for a too lean high rpm mixture.
Ideally you close that inlet vacuum line.
I agree that the carburetor is a limiting factor, and causing the engine to have to work much harder for less air/fuel mixture, much like an engine works less efficient at higher rpms as it does at lower rpms.
One of the ways to help the engine reach better fuel economy, is create an atkinson design, limiting the exhaust valves from releasing all the exhaust. Thus also limiting vacuum resistance losses. Not sure if a backyard mechanic can actually create an atkinson design engine, other than making it more permanent by limiting the exhaust flow (possibly by squeezing a steel pipe in the exhaust, forcing the exhaust to go through a much more narrow exhaust tubing.
Or, just weld close the exhaust tip. Most exhausts have sufficient cracks and holes where exhaust is leaking from anyway.
I guess the physics behind the reason a simple carb can get about the same fuel efficiency as an EFI is mainly due to fine tuning close to optimal air-fuel ratio. I also think that a tiny carb can improve fuel "atomisation" by turbulence, without introducing more pumping losses than driving with the same performance from the EFI. Pumpng losses are still really bad for fuel economy, and so is low actual compression ratio. If the stock Saturn EFI can be fooled to behave well during the cylinder deactivation experiment I think there will be some really nice figures. Cylinder deactivation should be a good way to hit the BSFC sweet spot. I was chasing that BSFC sweet spot for a couple of years and tens of thousands of kilometers with my 1975 Saab V4. I managed to cut down fuel consumption to about HALF of what's normal with such a car, without any modifications to the engine! 4.1 liters per 100 km is rediculously low for a 1500cc engine from the 1960's. The "magic" that made this possible is extreme ecodriving, by combining two methods called "Driving Without Brakes" and "Burn & Glide".DWB is about planning your driving, reading the traffic carefully and being good at estimating your inertia. B&G is hitting the Brake Specific Fuel Economy sweet spot by letting the engine either run near full power around best torque, or not at all, not even on idle. -I have installed switches on the shift stick that allows me to easily turn the engine off and on. The Saab 96 V4 freewheel makes it really easy to shift between the neutral and 4:th gear over and over again, but I have tried these methods of extreme ecodriving on more modern cars, without turning the engine off, and got amazing results even there.
@@elektroarkivet This is all well and good, but as you write its mostly your driving style that made the difference, I am unconvinced any carb can come close to the efficiency offered by modern designs with DFI.
That 3cyl diesel swap is gonna rock!🤘
I can't wait to see that, I have an idea for a rock crawler buggy that would love that
I owned 5 Saturns back in the day. I enjoyed them all except for the head liners and the sunroof on one of them.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Hey Jimbo, thanks for another interesting video! Thanks for enduring all that heat to bring us the video (that gets old fast). Driving since 1971 in Florida, I have seen my fair share of carburetor vapor lock and stuck heat riser valves. I'm kind of surprised you were plagued with it, considering how much air was passing through that carburetor, there should have been considerable temperature drop through the venturi.
I'm not surprised gas mileage was similar to stock; the SC1 and SL1 were optimized for economy. Of the 3 Saturns we had in the family at one time (1994 SC1, 1995 SC2, and 1999 SL1), I regularly got 42 mpg (5 speed SL1) on the Interstate.
With the mileage/wear on that engine, the test results are "iffy" at best. That engine was not that durable; after 100,000 miles, the cylinder wall sealing noticeably drops off. I discovered this the hard way during a 2,000 road trip, halfway through the trip, the compression dropped so much, the engine lost about half its power. As a temporary fix, I changed the motor oil to 20W-50 which enabled me to get back home.
One of my hopes with your round of testing, was to see if you could run the engine super lean (16 - 20:1) and end up with improved fuel economy. However to do this, you would need some way to fully vaporize the fuel before entering the engine, as liquid fuel does not burn in the combustion chamber and fuel in a gaseous state ignites much easier. Giving the state of the Saturn engine, its best just to move on to the next engine transplant. I am especially interested in seeing the fuel mileage the diesel turns in.
⛽⛽⛽😜😜😜👍👍me too!!
An excellent metric for fuel economy is BSFC, having the capability to measure this allows for real-time results, no messing around with other methods. This is what professional calibration and hardware engineers refer to as a quick way to see changes to fuel economy. You can literally sit there, and dial the engine calibration and instantly see the change in fuel economy.
I am blown away no one is doing this measurement in the backyard, not specifically picking on Robot Cantina but more pointing at race shop youtubers who have dynamometers or people trying to sell HHO generators for fuel economy. Measuring BSFC is not hard, you need brake torque and fuel flow, the formulae is BSFC = fuel consumption / Power.
Its almost like those people you mention dont want people to know the true result.... hmmmmm.....
Yeah, not much to be "blown away by" when considering that, in my book.
@@GoldenCroc Looking forward to another great video here. ..😊😊
Always look forward to your shenanigans!!! I miss doing things like this… I owned 3 Saturn SL2’s… had a blast with those cars. Thanks for the great content Robot Cantina. Can’t wait for the next episode 👍🏼
People never understand what I mean when I tell them to buy a SL or SC if they're just needing a reliable and economic car for cheep. I loved my little SL1. They're the definition of shit box, but they do shit box well.
@@OhPhuckYou Love that!💖💖 they do shit box well..👍!!
@@kansasrose2909 Looking forward to more fun videos here.
@@ocdman202 I come here for the videos and stay for the great comments here.
@@kansasrose2909 ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Here I am again, pawing the UA-cam icon on my phone at 8am on Sunday morning like a lab rat on a feeder bar. I’m a big fan of the Frankensaturn, and I can’t wait to see what it does with not only the straight Kubota, but the eventual pulse and turbojet booster engines.
You got about what I figured you would on overall mileage (41). A cool air intake surrounding the whole carb running from the front of the car, and a cool can for the fuel lines filled with ice water would get rid of the vapor lock issue (and increase mpg's). Most all EFI systems have a return line to the tank so fuel circulates constantly back to the tank and won't vaporize in the lines, so no vapor lock issues there. The 3 cyl. Kubota sounds like a real winner. I don't imagine it will be big on acceleration, but the fuel mileage ought to be phenomenal. You may need to add an extra gearbox to keep it in it's upper RPM range where it's most efficient.😉 Diesels (especially small diesels) don't like to be lugged below their optimal rpm, and you'll have overheating issues, not to mention sub-par horsepower...
Your local people offered to help you, that's rare where I'm from. And I live in farmland California.
You seem to cover most questions viewers may have! I like your thorough methods behind the winging it! The simple spray solution is epic. I wonder if the intake runner has coolant flowing through it to prevent icing in the winter time? That should be disabled for these summer experiments. You would probably need to add length to the intake and mount the carb out front--make it ram air--if you wish to stay carburetor and go back to cleaning bugs with the washer fluid. All the thrown out parts, you should also consider hypermiling the saturn engine, taking it to 55, 60 mpg--add a turbo blah blah. Keep the good content coming!
This channel provides a welcome departure from the mundane. We look forward to more good content.
@@kansasrose2909 I look forward to more videos here.
Is there going to be a video this week?
When I was a about 13 me and a buddy had this old deathtrap boat with an old straight 6 with a downdraught carburetor. Somebody told us it was the carburetor. We didnt know anything about carburetors but we understood what they did. We replaced it with a metal bug spray container with some holes drilled in it and a needle valve dripping gas into it. It only ran one speed but since it didn't have neutral or reverse We just pulled the alligator clip off the battery to stop it.
One day we were cruising down the bay and the local coast guard boat passed us. One of them looked close then tapped his buddy on the shoulder and pointed than they went to the skipper and pointed at us. That was back in the 60''s. I spent 2/3 of the time on the streets. The only adult supervision I had was the town cop who gave me the belt ................ a ...... uh ........ few times. When I got board I used to go to the coast guard station and play pool for free. They just told me to go home and get it fixed but then after a closer look at it, they decided it was too dangerous so they towed us to the fish house and told us not to move it till they looked at it.
We had another old boat we put together. It ran 5 mph faster than the coast guard boat. Every time we saw them we would go tease them by pulling up beside them and gunning the engine a few times. They told me for two years to get it registered every time I went to the station to play pool.
Those were the good old days..
Here's to the good old days
Sometimes we don't realize how good the good
old days were until they're gone😚😚😚
@@kansasrose2909 Is this a case of genius see === genius do?
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Good stuff I love the on the fly bush adaptations
Just got my 2001saturn sc running that been sitting 5yrs. .you can't kill these cars. Ive had 3 that just wouldn't die!! And I'm definitely a truck girl but facts are facts
“There is no road too long to the man who advances deliberately and without undue haste; there are no honors too distant to the man who prepares himself for them with patience.” ― Jimbo === we can't wait to see your next video!!
The diesel engine you have put into the Saturn will be on the road soon, right ?
Is this a case of genius see === genius do?
Really enjoying your videos. Just found the channel and these experiments are very entertaining. Thanks and keep it up. Looking forward to the next segment on the diesel portion of the series.
Love the Saturn series! As a former Saturn owner who wanted a first gen Insight, I've only become more excited for this series.
Me too... Love the saturn🪐🪐🪐👍
@@kansasrose2909 😂😂😂
@@mommapanda5736 I am super excited for this series , too.
@@kansasrose2909 I come here for the videos and stay for the fun comments. ☺☺
I own a 98 SC1 with 125,000 miles
i kind of regret finding this channel so early in its life, the content's too hecking good
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
you were right , i understand wide band and narrow band sensors to be either more or less accurate for a certain range of fuel to air. I dont know which is better or which is which even. :)
Did you check the carbon build up in the intake after the carb installation? I wonder how much of it got washed away.
Maybe if you extended the carburetor away from the intake manifold to get it away from the heat it might help your vapor lock issue and could also give you some ram Air effect for slightly better performance
an adapter tube with some fine stainless mesh screen may increase atomization.
Basically a horizontal high rise.
@@weaponizedautism6199 Looking forward to another great video here. 😊😊
@Weaponized Autism the sign is a subtle joke
I got 360,000 miles out of my 2000 SL2 , with the original engine and clutch! Burned oil like crazy, but only died when a valve burned and ran on 3 cylinders. And got 37 mpg for 10 yrs every time! Saturn is junk? Hardly! Best car I ever owned!
The thought of putting a lawnmower engine into any car might sound ridiculous, and it is, but it seems to work well in the tiny, lightweight Honda Insight. Robot Cantina - a UA-cam channel dedicated to swapping different engines in a Honda Insight - started off a four-part series by showing viewers its low-powered hybrid car. To get things started, they sourced a 212cc, 6.5-hp Predator motor from Harbor Freight, which only cost them $99, and then linked the engine to a CVT matched with a five-speed transmission in order to make it work in the car.
“There is no road too long to the man who advances deliberately and without undue haste; there are no honors too distant to the man who prepares himself for them with patience.” ― Jimbo === we can't wait to see your next video!!
The diesel engine you have put into the Saturn will be on the road soon, right ?
An interesting test would be to run the original EFI but using the carb as a throttle body (no fuel supply to the carb). By suspicion is that you'd get better than 42MPG and better acceleration than the carb on it's own.
mmmm... wouldnt the EFI need to be tuned for tge smaller intake dia, or it would end up rich by a lot?
pretty sure without a TPS installed inline, the car will just run its default fuel mapping, and end up not starting at all...
then again, im not a professional automotive mechanic, just a state certified master motorcycle mechanic, not a car mechanic.
@@honeybadgeractual5734 Most car engines rely mostly on the MAP sensor with the TPS more of a backup than anything else. One of my cars had a TPS fail a while back and it ran fine. As far as the MAP sensor is concerned a smaller throttle body is functionally the same as limiting how far the original throttle body can open.
Just get rid of that crude unsofisticated stone-age carburetor. It's rediculous to think it could do a better job then the OEM EFI-system.
You just have to limit the maximum opening of the OEM throttle body.
Maybe you could re-tune the EFI to run an AFR that is tuned for best mileage (= 16-17:1) instead of cleanest emissions. (Which would be 14.7:1, probably what the stock EFI tuning is aiming for)
It wouldn't surprise me if the car would get even better mileage then 42mpg.
As someone who has a 1998 Saturn SL1 sedan with the same powertrain arrangement as this video's coupe, I can confirm that 42+ MPG is very achievable during warmer months (39 - 40 MPG for colder months). Best I've attained has been 45.6 MPG on a 350 mile trip. Like most fuel economy, it really stems from driving behavior on top of the condition of the vehicle. Most of these cars are beat to crap. I picked-up mine last year (2nd owner) and it only had 46K miles under its belt, so mine is probably the exception and not the rule.
@@Milesamanjaro Love the comments here. Yes, most of these cars are beat to crap😜
Had to mad max it out a bit, fitting as it sounds like the 70s again!
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
I like how brilliant you are,you are a smart man and seem very humble,love the content.
The thought of putting a lawnmower engine into any car might sound ridiculous, and it is, but it seems to work well in the tiny, lightweight Honda Insight. Robot Cantina - a UA-cam channel dedicated to swapping different engines in a Honda Insight - started off a four-part series by showing viewers its low-powered hybrid car. To get things started, they sourced a 212cc, 6.5-hp Predator motor from Harbor Freight, which only cost them $99, and then linked the engine to a CVT matched with a five-speed transmission in order to make it work in the car.
I had a 95 SC1 in the late 90’s for a few years. Bought it as a repo. That car took a beating but man she was so fun to drive and so practical. But she ate a quart every 700 miles 😂. Love your experiments.
Mine too. A oil hungry car. Was sad after it finally lost compression in the engine
why no music at the start?
Also; the vacuum leak on thunderhead's isn't controlled by the phone, it's controlled by an arduino. He uses an app to monitor the AFR, put in the desired AFR, and to turn it on/off.
Also also; there's a decent chance going smaller will eliminate vapour lock, due to a combination of evapourative cooling, and the fuel constantly cycling through the carb and never sitting around.
maibe put a swan neck on the intake to get the carb to sit though the hole in the bonnet right in the open air , should help keeping it cool
raising the fuel pressure slightly might help raising the cooking point of the fuel used
Excellent video and great experiment with unexpected results! 👍😉
Did you see Robot Cantina's latest video ?
@@kansasrose2909 "You need to be aware of what others are doing, applaud their efforts, acknowledge their successes, and encourage them in their pursuits. When we all help one another, everybody wins." JIMBO is another great talent in the talent show of life...
@@ocdman202 “There is no road too long to the man who advances deliberately and without undue haste; there are no honors too distant to the man who prepares himself for them with patience.” ― Jimbo === we can't wait to see your next video!!
The diesel engine you have put into the Saturn will be on the road soon, right ?
@@mommapanda5736 Yes, this must really be a case of genius see, genius do
S-series are the cheapest manual cars around. I had two and totally fun.
The o2 sensors/cats go because the engines burn a lot of oil. No drain holes in between the piston rings.
The fix is new pistons and rings, or just drive the hell out of it til it eats more oil than fuel.
I want to see a SW with a 1.8t swapped into it. Would be a mean sleeper.
Forty PSI? Really? Forty? Not 41.25? Sheesh!
Seriously: Great work as usual, thanks, really enjoy this channel!
That was very interesting...
Really expected the gas milage to improve with the lawnmower carb.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Lots of fun, as usual! I can say you are a brave man - filling the tank these days is not for the fainthearted :-)
Did Jimbo take out a business loan to fill the tank?? Oh my... agree totally not for the fainthearted. 😲
@@kansasrose2909 LOL
CONGRATULATIONS JIMBO.. over 100k subscribers! 👍👍 ROBOT CANTINA
continues to provide the entertainment and fun that viewers enjoy!
I don't have scientific data, but I think plenty of perfectly nice weekends are being given over to the binge craze. We are binge - watching videos from ROBOT CANTINA😛😛😋😋
"To speak gratitude is courteous and pleasant, to enact gratitude is generous and noble, but to live gratitude is to touch Heaven." -
Yes, this must really be a case of genius see, genius do
No human investigation can be called real knowledge if it does not pass through mathematical demonstrations; and if you say that the kinds of knowledge that begin and end in the mind have any value as truth, this cannot be conceded, but rather must be denied for many reasons, and first of all because in such mental discussions there is no experimentation, without which nothing provides certainty of itself.
Mathematics is not a deductive science - that's a cliche. When you try to prove a theorem, you don't just list the hypotheses, and then start to reason. What you do is trial and error, experimentation, guesswork.
Go with an S&S carb from a Harley motor cycle. It's a larger 1v sidedraft carb. Too small a carb will kill torque which will hurt your mpg because you need more throttle to achieve the same power. 41-42 mpg is about the best you can expect no matter what the method of fuel deliver given the cars weight and aero dynamics. A long tube header and free flowing exhaust will also help with low end torque which means less throttle needed for cruise. Strip the car down weight wise and clean up the aerodynamics would be the only way to get a serious mpg improvement. The very boxy Ford Festiva got 45-mpg with a carb'd engine back in the '80's. No reason a slicker Saturn couldn't achieve it. I'd also check to see if any of the pushrod GM V-6 engines bolt up to the Saturn trans and then try the lawnmower carb set-up. Once again, low end torque is the key to good fuel economy.
I easily got 52 mpg over thousands of miles in my sl1. 2 road trips I averaged over 50 mpg. 3500 miles each.
@@clintmullins4406 Happy 4th to one and all..🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸💥💥💥💥
@@kansasrose2909 The next holiday I look forward to
is Labor Day...
@@ocdman202 Yes, a 3 day weekend!
My Saturn sl1 5-speed got the best mileage in the 50-60mph range. Even through foothills at just above sea level I could get to 40mpg. On flat ground I could see it increasing just a bit more.
The slower you can go in top gear the better the fuel economy. It just gets more painful the slower you go if you have any major distance to travel! Especially sharing the road where it's single lane.
@@volvo09 Not exactly true, there is a break even point were frictional losses in the engine are enough to give worse economy, and it is for many cars, at a much higher speed than the "slowest in top gear" one. About 45-55 mph is where most cars hit their best MPG, so quite a bit faster than the 35mph or so many cars can manage in top gear.
This speed is very normal, and is exactly the case for the vast majority of petrol powered cars.
Cylinder deactivation would be interesting to see! I pushed that concept to the extreme about ten years ago by removing two pistons entirely, removing the valve lifters and grinding some additional clearance to the camshaft. I then drove almost 40.000 kilometers with the poor thing, so I got quite good statistics. Fuel saving was about 10-15% while keeping my usual everyday pace. I had to rev the remains of the engine a lot more to reach the speed, probably wasting some fuel. One thing I noticed was that engine braking was reduced a lot. -It felt as if there was almost none! Keeping the pistons in the engine but deativating the valves isn't optimal, but I guess the saving could still be noticable due to higher load (closer to BSFC sweet spot) and lower pumping losses when the engine runs on a more open throttle. I made my little Fiat engine a 180 degree crank to make mechanical balance better, but instead I got really uneven torque that made driving on high gears really shaky. (but I did have a cool engine sound) 🙂 When keeping all four pistons in the engine I guess 360 degree firing is the best, and to minimize torsional vibrations in the crank I guess it's best to fire cylinder 2 and 3 since they are the closest pair. Here's an old video of my Fiat 127 experiment: ua-cam.com/video/GcKNt6QxEYE/v-deo.html
I'm looking forward to see the Saturn with the little Kubota! I have smaller cars (vintage SAAB 96) and a 600cc two cylinder Kubota that I've wanted to try in a car for a long time. It's only 12hp so I will probably have to make some extreme body modifications (to the car). :D
Thats awesome lol
@@snaxgalore5764 I come here for the videos and stay for the great comments on this channel.
@@kansasrose2909 I love the comments here and the videos too.
I really don't know..? Man you think we come to hear that? Yes... I do!
Honesty very rare these days. You look like the smartest guy ever by saying the truth. Love that. Everything you do will be successful.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Nick Holonyak Jr., Pioneer of LED Lighting, Is Dead at 93
He invented a visible red-light diode. His 41 patents also included lasers that enabled DVD and CD players.
I don't have scientific data, but I think plenty of perfectly nice weekends are being given over to the binge craze. We are binge - watching videos from ROBOT CANTINA😛😛😋😋
@@kansasrose2909 Is this a case of genius see === genius do?
Great video, would be fun to see how different sized carburetors do once the weather cools down.
My 95 SL2 is far from slow, mine is modified but I liked the segment for the experimental nature of things.
Thanks for adjusting your Metric units to better match our conventions, it's noticed and appreciated! These are great series, BTW, doing the sorts of conversions I've often wondered about but never had the time or motivation.
Yes, this must really be a case of genius see, genius do
If you limit the amount of air going into an engine, you have to limit the amount of fuel in order to get the proper air to fuel ratio. With a small carb, you're going to have it "floored" more often in order to get the performance you need. So rather than put a lawnmower carb on it, all you really have to do is put something under your gas pedal so you can't push it down as far. That way, you limit the air coming in (which causes the computer to limit the fuel coming in) with the butterfly valve rather than just a smaller opening of the lawnmower carb, AND you get the efficiency of fuel injection. Basically you can increase your fuel economy much more by just not pushing your foot down as far than you ever could by using a carburetor of any kind.
That's in the instance of small carb vs regular fi. I wonder how the test might work with a more normal sized carb.
@@evanc6110Electronic Fuel injection will always provide more power and greater efficiency than a carburetor. If you tape a block of wood under your gas pedal and you test EFI and a carb, the fuel injection will have more power and more efficiency than a carburetor. Carburetors were always tuned slightly rich because it was safer on the engine, but the ability to monitor and change the air/fuel mixture and timing means the EFI can adapt to changing conditions like outside air temperature and pressure. Those conditions make all the difference, but a carburetor has no idea what the outside conditions are, so when it's tuned, it's a compromise.
@@chrisbrooks6697 Brilliant solutions don't occur spontaneously, especially for the kind of complex problem we see at long view. They come from working through ideas, options, alternatives, even failures and mistakes, and combining them in new ways to find the best solution Keep up
the good work Jimbo..
@@ocdman202 I don't disagree, but I do believe that those with more experience sharing knowledge can accelerate the path to the best solution.
I like this channel, your content, humor, know-how, and I really want to stress that I appreciate the nod to Thunderhead308's previous experimenting with this subject.
Some days I hop on UA-cam and in my feed I see something cool, unique, new, or a reimagining of an established technology/process/idea. Within a couple of days of that, I'm suddenly inundated with variations of the same concept by a dozen different channels, with little to no citation or reference to the original video's creator. It's just passed off as their own creative work essentially, by not referencing where they saw it. Or maybe it's a coincidence, and through our shared consciousness the idea is broadcast universally.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
You know things are getting serious when the windshield wipers come on.
We have truly reached the pinnacle of human achievement.
@@mommapanda5736 ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
I still own my 1997 Saturn SL. Has 267000 miles on it and has been the best most reliable car I've ever owned. I've done all my own work on it and its lasted this long. Your video about fitting it with a lawn mower carburetor was hilarious. I got the best laugh out if it.
Its really too bad Saturn was shut down by GM. They made a very good reliable low maintenance car that was easy to work on.
A master mechanical engineer told me they quit making Saturns because they lasted to long and Gm was losing money on them !
@@randywest9652 Looking forward to more from Robot Cantina
@@kansasrose2909 Is this a case of genius see === genius do?
3:05 I notice the little notches at the bottom, if you're going to be using the "top off to figure out gas millage" method, place it on the slower setting, it provides a more consistant top-off point. Using the fast one usually goes +/- 1L , I use the extra time to clean the windows, check the oil and dump my trash, can usually get all done within a 50L topup
A moped carb yes it has an accelerator pump that lawn mower carbs don't have and don't forget in the thunderhead 289 videos he said that he thinks the bend in the intake hose between carb and intake also helps with atomization.
I'd say the first thing to do is replace the Cat. It's almost guaranteed to be clogged. Take it up a hill and if it bogs down you have your culprit. You mention the cat early on but neglect to note that non- top tier gas will definitely clog the convertor. Yes, a clogged converter will kick out that code. How do I know? I owned 3 saturns and a cruze that all had the same problem.
@Robot Cantina
It was nice of you to credit ThunderHead289 for his original experiment.
Yes, vapor locking was the one remaining persistent problem that he had. But I do believe that the electonic app that he was using made more than a negligeable difference to the overall performace. I think that the difference is in the details.
agree, the difference is in the details. 🤓
@@kansasrose2909 "You need to be aware of what others are doing, applaud their efforts, acknowledge their successes, and encourage them in their pursuits. When we all help one another, everybody wins." JIMBO is another great talent in the talent show of life...
I'd like to see a gnome holding the carb cooling hose. But that's just words to those who don't care! Love this series!
Oh they care friend lol
@@doperks7271 ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
LOL. "It has 215, 000 miles on it. It's a Saturn, so it's probably been burning oil for 150, 000 miles." Cracked me up. This is amazing. A lawnmower carb does as well as EFI? Actually that's pretty amazing, isn't it?
Had 274,000 on mine & never burned a bit between oil changes , but I also changed the oil every 5K miles !!
@@waylonmccrae3546 Brilliant solutions don't occur spontaneously, especially for the kind of complex problem we see at long view. They come from working through ideas, options, alternatives, even failures and mistakes, and combining them in new ways to find the best solution Keep up
the good work Jimbo..
Damn that carbon build up in the intake was thiccckkkkkk for sure. amazing the fuel mileage you were getting especially with all that gunk in there
We delight in the beauty of the butterfly, but rarely admit the changes it has gone through to achieve that beauty.
Music has always been a matter of Energy to me, a question of Fuel. Sentimental people call it Inspiration, but what they really mean is Fuel. I have always needed Fuel. I am a serious consumer. On some nights I still believe that a car with the gas needle on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio.
Don’t let others tell you what you can’t do. Don't let the limitations of others limit your vision. If you can remove your self-doubt and believe in yourself, you can achieve what you never thought possible
I had this on 1.25 speed and thought this dude was hella caffeinated for a second.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
“Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it’s a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope.”
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
you need to work more on the carburator, use a return line to alleviate vapour lock, hook up the TPS so the ECU can adjust timing properly and not just based on RPMs, remember the TPS is stuck at no throttle and RPMs are high = overrunning
the carburator is a device from the stone age and still manages to keep up with state of the art electronics
It already has a return fuel line in the video
@@ripemelon393 thats a "bleeder" line, the vapour forms between the Y and the carb
Yes, must hook up the TPS to get all the ignition advance at part throttle. This is needed to get the best fuel economy possible.
@@jonflach9432 Just hook the TPS lead to a junked sensor with the clockspring removed (if it even has one) and dial in 1/3 throttle with a screwdriver.
@@mfree80286 These are all great comments. ☺☺
Good Morning Sunday.
May every sunrise hold more promise.
and every sunset hold more peace.
CONGRATULATIONS JIMBO.. over 100k subscribers! 👍👍 ROBOT CANTINA
continues to provide the entertainment and fun that viewers enjoy!
Excellent mpg on the mower carburetor. I'd be happy to drive around like that to keep the pocket safe.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Time for 4 lawnmower carbs i think
I was able to get over 45 mpg on my Saturn 98 sl2 once. But that was going mostly downhill for about 300 miles. It was about 38 mpg going up the hill.
Looking forward to more great videos from Robot Cantina
Old mechanic racer trick. Wooden clothes pin on fuel line helps with vapor lock.
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
Running the fuel through a cooler with some ice in it and slapping some insulation on the supply line might help cool the carb.
Id be interested to see you pick this project up again in the winter time, I would have also considered hooking up a larger reservoir for the washer fluid sprayer. Back in the 60s some companies used a bag instead of a hard plastic container due to AC and other emerging tech taking hood space
Looking forward to more great videos from Robot Cantina
@@ocdman202 The thought of putting a lawnmower engine into any car might sound ridiculous, and it is, but it seems to work well in the tiny, lightweight Honda Insight. Robot Cantina - a UA-cam channel dedicated to swapping different engines in a Honda Insight - started off a four-part series by showing viewers its low-powered hybrid car. To get things started, they sourced a 212cc, 6.5-hp Predator motor from Harbor Freight, which only cost them $99, and then linked the engine to a CVT matched with a five-speed transmission in order to make it work in the car.
@@mommapanda5736 Is this a case of genius see === genius do?
Thank you for also putting the info in liters and km. Nice videos!
Looking forward to more from Robot Cantina
I like the videos here.... Looking forward to more from Jimbo of Robot Cantina .
@@mommapanda5736 Is this a case of genius see === genius do?
I just bought a new pict 34 bug carb for 70 bucks to the front door.Works perfect.Prolly flow as good as the factory fi on this beast.Small is good to a point.
I'd do an extreme fuel economy mods/tests.
Now that we know baseline is 42MPG, lets modify the car by all means possible to eek out even more economy. Maybe different tires, aero modifications, shedding weight. Playing with the engine; like the mentioned cylinder deactivation, ecu mods (or even a standalone speeduino perhaps?), hot air intake, removing unecessery accessories...
Would be fun to see how much mpgs you can actually eek out from a car like that.
that would be a great idea
*hot* air intake, yes indeed. Power suffers like no other but with the EFI controlling fuel delivery, bring the intake air over the exhaust manifold (ahead of the IAT sensor, of course) to get it nice and toasty... and thin... means the ECU supplies less fuel to maintain the AFR.
Pretty darn crazy this got pretty much the same mpg.. while thunderhead's v8 got double or more the mpg (still 40ish, but original was 20 or worse, iirc.)
“There is no road too long to the man who advances deliberately and without undue haste; there are no honors too distant to the man who prepares himself for them with patience.” ― Jimbo === we can't wait to see your next video!!
The diesel engine you have put into the Saturn will be on the road soon, right ?
Move your fuel Wye closer to the carburetor. That will keep the fuel cooler closer to the carburetor due to the flow. Also add a variable restriction in the return and close it right up until the needle unseats and back it off.
Which valve can I use for variable restriction?
Nice work. Thought I notice It leaked as soon as you mentioned it not leaking and put the fuel tank in the trunk. Far right connection.😆
ROBOT CANTINA== does your workshop have any elves in it?🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂🧙♂The end of the year is a time of year for remembrance. We take stock of where we came from, and have a moment to think about where we are going, as we pursue the future with hope. May your new year be all that you hope for, and may it be sprinkled with love and friendship. Happy Holidays!
I had a Saturn and that thing could easily achieve 40 MPG. Nice lightweight little car. I'd love to find an example like the SC1 you have here.
I had a 97 SC2. I was the second owner and sold it with only 60k miles on it in 2016. It was fully loaded and i miss it every day despite having a 2000 Firehawk as my toy. The Saturn was surprisingly comfy got amazing mileage and was actually fun to drive.
So what about 2 lawnmower carburetors? With the second one only opening at high throttle?
1:34 "40psi...if not a bazillion comments on why we didnt do that". How a normal mind works. How my mind works: "We've defllated the tyres to 15psi". *sits back and waits for the comments.
Yes, this must really be a case of genius see, genius do
I saw someone connecting a blinker relay to a bypass vacuum valve to create a rich lean to keep the cat happy
Was it on UA-cam?