Turin DF64 vs Niche Zero vs Atom 75 - Blind Taste Test
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- This was my first attempt at doing a blind taste test. I tried to keep all variables as close to the same as possible. Next time I hope things go a bit smoother but hope this gives some idea for now.
All 3 grinders use the stock hardened steel burrs. No modifications were made.
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I enjoy these type of comparisons. You are doing some reality base grinder comparisons essentially with the DF64 as mediator. Keep up the good work, amigo.I love your rating sheet which brings out some nuances that are hard to document.
I know this was 2 yrs ago but still seems very relevant. I'm deciding between the DF 64 and the Atom 75. This video helps.
Both are quite different but yet the same. Atom has been awesome easy to use grinder. Latest gen 2 is pretty amazing as well especially at less than 1/3 the price. Really depends what you are going towards
Even more excited about my DF64 due to arrive July 7th! Thanks for the review!
Thanks that was a nice appetizer. It would definitely be very interesting to see their performances with lighter and darker roasts.
You really know your grinders; you nailed on all of them 💪🏻👌🏻🙌🏻
A bit of luck maybe? 🤷♂️ I wasn’t really looking at the previous graph as I did the next and found interesting the 2 flats were honestly similar but maybe the Turin less pronounced? Hard to put into words sometimes.
I think that was expected being that the Atom is a more capable grinder
Thanks for the comparison! Really hard to find much content online as the DF64 is such a new grinder.
Could you dial in each grinder and also weigh output for future comparisons? I think this would produce less biased results.
From what I am seeing, the 2nd shot ran for only 18s while the other two shots were at 25s and 27s which are more similar. In my experience, even using the same grinder, would result in a huge difference in taste by itself.
Furthermore, the output of each shot is unknown. Using a 1:2, 1:2.25, or 1:2.5 ratio can result in huge differences in shot clarity as well. An extra 2-4g more of espresso in the cup is almost impossible to discern without a scale. Sticking to a fixed ratio would provide a fairer comparison.
I agree with this, I’d also be interested to see you do triangle testing with the DF64 & Niche / Atom & DF64 using espresso you’ve pulled from start to finish yourself.
Perhaps a tad laborious to do, but it’d be interesting to see if you could pick out which was the odd one out from a blind tasting.
@@Codsworthy1701 I think this would be the better approach as well
Yeah this video was difficult enough to shoot. Stuff was running better earlier in the day. Just far too much work to brew 20+ shots in an evening when having wife and kids. I will do more and hopefully do better. It just is what it is.
you do not understand how grinders work. If you are going to compare grinders in the same time/output/ratio you will just butcher their max potential out. Some grinders work well in higher ratios with a higher flow (shorter time) others work really well in a longer time and shorter ratio. Tim Wendelboe explains this and why with their Roburs they pull 33-34 sec shots while swapping to e80 supreme they do it in 23-25 sec for the same extraction yield range and preferred taste. If you take for example a kafatek max with suriken burrs you will find the best taste to be in slow pour 1-2 ratio or less, while if you take the same grinder using ssp burrs hu 98mm it will be better in 1-3 ratio pulled fast (15-20 sec shot total). So yes, what you ask is not okay to compare products. The 1-2 ratio is a standard for beginners to know where to start at the beginning when they lack experience.
@@portakeeper in all honestly I wouldn’t bother filming pulling the shots like that, go through the test you plan to run, say how it’ll be run, pull the shots etc, do the testing section, and then wrap up with your thoughts. There’s a whole large mid section of just watching you use an espresso machine which honestly… not THAT interested in watching you pull back to back shots on an ECM.
Thanks, would be interested to see same process for pour over.
Cool thanks!
@@portakeeper same here would love if you could do a pour over comparison
@@infanteer7535 check back tonight, it’s being edited
@@portakeeper Did you ever do this? If so, I can't find it. Can you please provide the link.
@@scottintexas i did not
Very interesting!!! Thank so much for doing this
It’s nice that your wife participates in your coffee madness. She must be a great lady
She’s amazing!
Nice comparison. I think I've had the same thing happen, some days you get multiple really good shots and other days multiple 'meh' or bad shots, I'll still drink the bad ones though.
Whilst I appreciate the effort you’re going to and I hope you keep up the good work, number 1 ran for 25sec, 2 ran for 18secs whilst 3 ran for 27secs. You really can’t do a fair comparison when they’re not dialled in to anything like the same extraction setting.
It is what it is, it’s a lot more difficult than it looks and Ive used extensively regardless so next time no blind test.
Great video! Kind of revealing of how burrs really affect the final flavor of the espresso. I’m wondering if stirring the shot would have made a difference in the results. Wondering if there are any plans to try multipurpose ssp burrs in that Turin.
Thanks for the video, might consider the tourin after your vid
For me it was between the niche and the turin. Now I know what I'm getting. Really tempting to go for the atom given how good it is at single dosing but it's a lot more expensive too.
Wouldn’t a 19s shot compared to 25s shot taste different anyways? Not the expert, but would’ve been more of a level field if each shot had the same pull time/weight
It really would be a great idea to weigh (both in and out) and time the shots. Your shots vary from around 17s - 23s, which desperately calls for adjustments to begin with. Same amount in only tells us a little about retention, and nothing of relevant in-cup differences.
You have such awesome ideas and seem extremely thourough in your efforts, like for instance the puckpress - love the way you describe the nuances both orally and visually, so it truly is a shame that the variables in your brewing makes it all useless.
Cheers
Thanks for the heads up. I don’t really do videos for a living so I’m just kind of learning. Hoping to do some fresh stuff soon!
Great video
You really should stir your Espresso before drinking or tasting it, makes a big difference.
Eureka Atom 75. Tried and tested workhorse. Glad I spent the $ and bought that as my first grinder.
I’ve tried many grinders and it’s my favorite
@@portakeeper Can you list the grinders you have tried so far please? Atom 75 looks like a good value
@@vpandey0 Baratza Preciso, rocket Fausto, Mazzer superjolly, Mazzer Robur, Compak F8, Compak K10, ditting 804, Mahlkonig K30, eureka specialita, eureka Atom 60, Eureka Atom 75, Nuova G60, Mythos, Ceado E37S.... maybe more? I’m starting to blank out
@@portakeeper Have you tested it (Atom 75) with Blow Up system ? I sometimes read that the retention of the Atom is important. (this question because I have an intention to buy if the Blow Up system is effective because it is for personal use. I have the Niche Zero and also the Commandante C40 for my travels). Thank You
@@back_to_the_bike8820 i haven’t tried because the blow up system is so expensive for what it is. I almost bought one a few times but never did it. Might have to look into it again
No. 2 was either a bad puck prep or the grinder was bad dailed in. It only 18 seconds to pour.
Apologies if I missed this in an earlier video, but is the DF64 on stock burrs or SSP?
All 3 grinders are stock burrs. Hardened steel
Thanks for the video. By the way, could you please tell me where I can get a soft copy of the form you were using in the video?
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Turin DF64E vs DF83 vs Atom 75 Specialty? What's retention on the Atom? Looking to get my first grinder. The built-in Breville grinder won't grind light roast fine enough. I love how easy it is to use, the auto tamper and every thing, but it's just not allowing me to dial to 1:2 in 25/30s.
Hmm don’t remember but I wrote a blog post. Go to espressooutlet.net and look up my atom 75 article. It’s in there. Built in Breville grinder is quite terrible. You’d be best suited with a DF64 or DF83. Love atom 75. Just a different grinder. 75 and 83 are comparable in flavor
🙏 NOW I MADE MY MIND. ATOM INSTEAD NICHE ZERO 😍
Love the Atom especially the 75.
Great comparison, thanks a lot! A quick question, where did you get the arrow thing on the top of the turin?
Check out all the cool stuff at portakeeper.com including the Turin ring
@@portakeeper Perfect!! Thanks I will buy one for sure :)
I'm impressed that you can taste those nuances. I am especially sensitive to some notes but can't train myself to notice others (like floral or berry). Sorry you have such refined tastes that you need to spend big on grinders. 😁
Thank you for that great video. Very well done. No fancy intros or editing. Just the good stuff 👍
🤣 yeah it sucks with the taste buds haha. Thank you!
It's super cool to see. I have a conductor friend who can play along with any instrument in an orchestra by ear on the first listen. It's sounded like bs when he told me, but then I saw him do it. Crazy. Anyway your ability to identify and differentiate flavors is impressive.
That's why DF64 is the niche killer.
Very interesting!
Thanks..
I kind of agree with you when you said conical is boring hahahaha.... thanks for sharing!!!
Hey question what burrs are you running on the df64? SSP High Uniformity Espresso Burrs or Standard? I’m looking into getting one with the SSP burrs as I have a hand grinder I used for my normal coffee I wanted an electric espresso grinder for my future espresso machine.
Stock steel burrs!
Did the Niche season or grow on you? Or still the same bland result in the cup?
Used it for a few months. Sold it. Not my cup of coffee.
Same person wrote the note wich one is wich and the taste analysis so this is not a objective review! And the machine is not a commercial one so it will be temperature changes between each shot and the time after grinding varies between all.
Ok
Where do you have these papers from, can you share it in a google docs?
I had in a book years ago and found online. Took some searching. images.app.goo.gl/Q3eotGrJUSwi11Wm7
where’d you get these coffee tasting templates from?
They are actually enlarged out of a coffee book I have. I should just remake my own way and post. I’ve had so many people request
@@portakeeper good idea! i’d really like these
That's very interesting, specially as it goes against all the hype around Niche. I got one too but so far I still prefer the taste in the cup from my Rocky (55mm flats). Maybe I am too used to Rocky's profile but what I get from Niche tastes weak, smooth, and rounded (not in a good way to me). I guess that's what you refer to as 'boring'? Whereas what I get from the Rocky is more defined, sharper, and stronger. Maybe I need to spend more time with the Niche. Or change my palate to match those of the masses. lol
I think your niche explanation is accurate. Correct it’s just lame and not even smooth to me. It’s just kind of there. Doesn’t taste bad but doesn’t taste wow. Surprised by the Rockey, but I’d bet if you went to larger flat burrs you’d be surprised. 55 is harder to dial, 65 not bad, but not going to be as complex as larger 75-83mm burrs, especially with lighter roasts
@@portakeeper I wonder if it's more of a conical burrs thing. Niche seems like a smart design, the only thing that was a concern to me is how burr alignment is achieved. What was your experience with Mazzer Robur? or Compak K10? (assuming it has 68mm Conicals) And have you tried or considered Lagom P64 (and now P100)? I almost went with that given the better build quality and how difficult it was to get a Niche.
@@vpandey0 the niche basically has the top burrs just laying in the housing. Not much to align. The bottom burr is just attached to the main shaft. I really don’t see how you could align even if you wanted to. The K10 was quite amazing.
I have not tried the p64. It’s gotta be nice. I’d prefer larger burrs though for that price. The flat IMO will be superior. The niche is just not worth what they change.
@@portakeeper And the K10 was conical I assume? I am just wondering if I am disappointed in Niche just because it has conical burrs or there are some other issues with it. Anyways I am letting it go. Interested to see how Lagom P100 turns out even though it's quire more expensive. Btw is there any possibility Niche would produce better results after the burrs are seasoned? How many lbs of coffee you have put through it you think?
@@vpandey0 I think the Niche has a lot of marketing hype personally and it just does not make as good of a cup of coffee. I think you will be happy with your decision.
Is the Turin have the same range as the Niche ? (Both Espresso and Pour Over ?)
Yes it does, similar adjustment style too, easy to switch between grind size where something like a Eureka grinder is a bit trickier with multiple knob rotations.
so what's the summary? lol
If I was picking atom 75 is my preference, Turin second and niche last
@@portakeeper do you have a preference of light or dark roast?