The Best Espresso Grinder Under £500
Вставка
- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
- The Grinders (in order of appearance):
Baratza Sette 270: www.baratza.com/product/sette...
Timemore 064S: www.timemore.com/products/tim...
Niche Zero: www.nichecoffee.co.uk/product...
Eureka Mignon Oro: www.eureka.co.it/en/eureka_or...
DF64 Gen 2: df64coffee.com/products/df64-...
Option-O Lagom Mini: www.option-o.com/lagom-mini
Mahlkönig x54: www.mahlkoenig.com/products/x...
Lifestyle Lab video for the X54 Adjustment: • Mahlkonig X54 Burr Cal...
Chapters:
0:00 Intro & Note On "Endgame Grinders"
0:54 The Line-Up
2:59 Dialling In and Workflows
15:41 Grinding Sound Testing
16:53 Blind Espresso Tasting
19:44 Filter Coffee Performance
21:21 Particle Size Analysis (Espresso Grind)
26:23 Grind Speed Performance
26:51 Power Consumption
27:31 Nitpicking The Little Detail That Make Me Angry
38:54 Wrap-Up and Conclusions
Links:
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Twitter: / jimseven
My Books:
How to Make The Best Coffee At Home*: geni.us/howtomakethebestcoffee
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The World Atlas of Coffee Audiobook*: bit.ly/worldatlasofcoffeeaudio
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James is going to be unstoppable now with a particle size analyzer in studio
😂😂😂😂
His Power is UNRIVALED. What next?!
@@spospartan-104 electron microscope
I think it would be interesting to correlate coffee taste with particle analysis!
Just you wait until James gets his hands on a particle accelerator next for his coffee testing 😂
Paused the video to thank you for saying these can be end-game grinders for most of us. There’s a lot of pressure to upgrade to the most expensive tool in the espresso world, so that was refreshing to hear.
Same. The wanton consumerism in the coffee world is crazy.
At some point, it becomes more about wanting to have the shiniest toy than about what the device can actually deliver. You see the same thing with other hobbies: audiophiles spending thousands on their set ups, gamers breaking the bank to get the latest rig every generation, or petrol heads buying a sports car based on how fast it is around a circuit when they have no intention of ever racing with it. There's nothing wrong with wanting to own a cool high-tech thing because it's cool and high-tech; pretending that you'll use it to its full capacity and genuinely appreciate the improvement in its output on a day-to-day basis is (for most people) a little lie they tell themselves.
A tip of the hat and well said. I thought exactly the same thing.
Agree 100%
Agreed. The law of diminishing returns is very real in espresso gear
James, thank you for including the sound in this video. It’s so incredibly important and not enough reviewers are adding it to their reviews.
16:23 i laughed out loud and found myself saying "OH MY GOD!" at the Baratza Sette grinder. what a friggin' beast, haha!
incredibly important to you maybe. I seem to be in a minority of people who can get over a few seconds of loud noise before a delicious coffee.
@@h3xag0nal you say that now, but imagine that Lagom Mini RC car noise being on the first things you hear every morning. that's gonna grate on anyone.
@Catheidan that and the Timemore were both harsh with that high-pitched sound.
At work, I deal with engines that are around 116-118 dB, but the frequency they run at will put you to sleep.
The support from Baratza is very slow. I have on this grinder for several years and anytime I have a problem it takes weeks for them to get back to you .
I’ve had one of these grinders for 2 years and the coffee industry is so focused on “the next upgrade” or “the end game product” I felt like I just HAD to upgrade. I was looking at the pricey flat burr grinders like they were going make my espresso so much better. After talking to someone who has the same grinder as me and is perfectly satisfied with it and now watching this video I feel a bit like the ungrateful child who always wants more. I’m gonna keep my grinder and be happy about it. Thanks for the video Hoffdaddy.
Hoffdaddy LOL that sent me. But that aside, being satisfied with what you have is hard when the industry is always buzzing about flashy new things. So I think it's commendable that you were able to take a step back and really ask yourself if you needed that upgrade!
I find it hilarious you're subscribed to "Shawn" Ryan. Oddly, I checked and hoped you would have been 🫡
its just a freaking grinder after all. at a certain point, its all in your head.
@@SkyForceOne2Grinder's at least as important as the espresso machine - a fact you must already know if you're watching this video.
It’s marketing. They arent insanely better than one another. People are compulsive buyers especially ones that are OCD about their coffee. What really is going to make your coffee stand out is good fresh roasted coffee.
James's gear comparison videos are rare but they are quite a joy to watch!
And I hope a filter one will come out soon!
How to spot another gear head :)
Doesn't matter the hobby we all love the gear !! :D
@@GriuGriu64 nor the knockers, wondering what he likes then
The fact that James has been publishing so much scientific analysis about coffee *for free* on UA-cam for all of us to learn how to make better coffee is a gift. I'm not only referring to this video, but many others he has published in the past. (And his books are a treat too!). Thank you, James! ❤☕
We do all pay for it.
Me: watches 40 minute grinder video
Also me: scoops coffee out of my vitamix with a soup spoon
😂 I’ve done as well.. you are not alone. 😅
UNCLEAN
Broh! 😮
Just got the DF64 gen2. Excellent build quality. Nowhere near as loud as I was anticipating from UA-cam reviews. I was wishing for this video ~3 weeks ago when I placed my order. Your detailed analysis is appreciated!
I've had Lagom Mini for over a year. We make 2-3 espressos a day with it and 1-2 pour overs. Our lattes are better than local coffee shop, no complaints. Pour overs are great. As is any other filter coffee we've made. The BIGGEST pro for this is that my wife really likes the size and design AND she she has no issues using it.
Wife's approval is the most important pro!!
How are you doing yr milk for yr lattes?
@@grady60 you can install an optional steam wand to the grinder. That way you can steam milk for your lattes if your espresso machine can’t.
I have an issue with it's name. Lagom is a Swedish word for "just the right amount" and then they go and slap "mini" onto it which just doesn't work, you can't have a miniature variation of something that is supposed to be lagom.
Does yours have numbers? The lack of numbers or clear indication is really odd.
This can only mean that we may be getting a revamp for: best espresso grinder under £1500, best espresso machine under £500 and best espresso machine under £1500 👀
One can hope!
Dude actually is out of creative subject. Last station of coffee content train. 😂
@@DaddyMakesCoffeenew grinders come out every year. It makes sense to revisit lists like these
@@DaddyMakesCoffee also the home coffee market is much more sophisticated compared to when those videos originally came out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw product comparison videos for grinders and espresso machines around the £3500 mark
Come on! Tones of same product reviews. Every year new product? Or revised one. Soon we will find out.
3 years with my Niche Zero and it’s never missed a beat. Gives me everything I need for espresso, great work flow, and I LOVE the noise it makes.
Recently got an 1zpresso hand grinder for filter and travel.
Every new grinder that comes out always gets my interest and promises to be the one for me, but reviews like this help it feel like there’ll always be something missing. Happy to call my current set up end-game for me. Thanks James!
I agree! It's never missed a beat. I love it too. I also have a 1zpresso for filter, but I bit the bullet and bought a 078 for filter. 😅
Love my niche and need no other
It's definitely the best sounding grinder in this video
Because Niche is a conical bur and doesn't require high rpm it doesn't need to be started prior grinding and the work flow is not matched by the other grinders and if you like dark roasts for espresso and latte or caps then you need look no more, also the quiet low pitched grinding I love this grinder
im exactly the same! v happy with my 1zpresso ZP6 for filter :) and my little niche chilling at home and doing my espressos well
Ex-barista here, I had the Sette for years now and I'm fairly satisfied with it for something that is decent for both espresso and filter. I think any coffee equipment will be as good as the skill you put into it at the end of the day, but of course when you have really nice equipment it makes your life easier. When I miss high end gear from my coffee shop life, it's usually because of workflow, not so much how the shots taste.
This is a great video, and I think buying one of these grinders and then investing in skill acquisition could get anyone going a long way before they need to upgrade.
Do you have issues with how loud it is?
Personally, I don't - but I get mindful of it if it's very early in the morning. If your kitchen is not next to bedrooms, or you don't have thin walls with neighbours, I think it's fine. I am used to louder grinders and this doesn't bother me. It's hard to say how much it'd bother you, but it's definitely audible and there are quieter options on the market. Hope this helps 😊
I would like to add that the sette's internals are completely made of plastic and it breaks quite often. I would avoid it.
Mine is 4 years old now and had zero issues so far, though I could just be lucky (I also do regular maintenance). I grind between 30-50g a day, which isn't that much I guess.
What's your home set-up now?
My wife asked me to get a less noisy grinder. I started to look into that but soon I fell into the black hole of grinders. After weeks of researching I was about to pull the trigger on a big helios when my coffee gear dealer help me snap out of it. I walked out with a Eureka Mignon and never looked back.
It seems to me, if I were a grinder manufacturer, that I would use James as a testing consultant on the prototype before scaling to manufacture. He certainly appears better at critiquing features per a "real world" consumer perspective than the engineers producing product models. Reminds me of Dyson which never actually uses the innovative product the way it is supposed to work.
This must cost some
Frankly I bet they probably don't wanna budget for him. I bet he makes more off the content he makes on fresh reviews than manufacturers want to pay him.
There is a large difference between buying a reviewer and consultant.
I’ve had my Sette 270 for a year now and I’ve loved it. Glad to see it get such high praise here. No buyers remorse for me!
Same here, I bought mine used and have had it for a couple months now and it's amazing. Sound doesn't bother me at all, my milk steamer louder anyway 😂
I love mine too, it's the endgame for me honestly. I knew before clicking on the video that James would hate the noise. It is definitely loud 😆
Have you tried this with filter coffee? I watched a review where someone said it doesn't male a good filter coffee, is this true?
I actually use the Sette 30 for espresso/filter, I've been VERY happy with it. For espresso I've got my Flair, so I can adjust a lot of factors (to make up for the loss of grinder setting control). For filter I use immersion-style devices like the Aeropress and French press.
I’ve been using the niche zero for almost 2 years now based off the recommendation in the original video however many years ago and have loved it. Overtime you learn to master some of the little quirks that now almost never hinder my workflow. The most important I found was labeling the ring for my favorite coffees and brew methods. V2 would be cool to have those programmable and then obviously the motor run while the hopper is open.
A 40 min Hoffmiester video on my Friday afternoon, I must have been good this year, Christmas came early, let me get a fresh brew and relax 🔥☕️
Hoffmeister
Yes! I love the longer format
James is a legit reviewer , so clear and friendly
He's one of the most clear and friendly people I've ever seen lol
James, thank you for highlighting/confirming the frustrations that the Eureka line has in switching between filter and espresso.
Used the Baratza Sette 270 for ages and very happy with it. One lesser mentioned feature is that the Aeropress fits nicely under it. So if you are a big Aeropress user as I am you can grind directly into it.
Similar to others the lack of retention and such are also attractive. I like the design where the beans drop straight through, not having to be shunted around into the chute. Yeah, it could be quieter but doesn't especially bother me (and I'm a bit noise sensitive.)
I'm going to try starting the motor before dropping the beans through to see if it makes any difference. Always learning something news from James' videos.
I very much agree, I didn't know that it actually could fit an aeropress under it. The sound I feel my be louder but it's a better quality sound. Others has a high pitched Ringing, where the sette had a deeper vibration sound. Making it (in my opinion) a much better option
I've had the Sette 270 for years and I find its flexibility to be an underrated asset. When I want to be a coffee nerd, it has the continuously adjustable dial and low retention, but when it's Monday morning and I just want coffee now, the big hopper and very fast grind speed make my life noticeably better. If you're like me and have a partner who drinks mostly filter and is not as picky about freshness, the big bucket and fast speed are very convenient for pre-grinding 20 doses of filter for the partner, so that I only have to dial in my espresso grind once every two weeks instead of every day.
I make both filter and espresso with my Sette 270 every day. The ability to switch back and forth easily is important to me and the Sette has consistently yielded excellent results.
Yeah. It might be loud, it might be plasticky, but it makes phenomenal coffee :)
I have the Sette too. Using it mostly for espresso the last 3 years with no issues at all. I’m just getting into V60 pour over. Can I ask what grind range you find good for filter - V60 and auto drip machine?
I've had a sette for 9 months and love it for espresso. I read once online it was bad for filter so I just hand grind. What's your filter/espresso setting? I'm at 17C for espresso.
I have Sette 270 Wi with the built-in scale. I think the weighting makes it great and very easy to use with pretty consistent doses ^^ I actually bought Wilfa Uniform for filter coffee because of the hopper that makes it too much a chore to change from espresso to filter and back :D
It will be hard to compare machines, I have a sette 270 as well and the exact settings you use for espresso grind will depend on the burrs and how many shims you have put under the burr@@rocketsfancheif. I use ~6D currently for my espresso but I have one of the shims installed.
The niche zero sounds WAY better than most grinders I've heard.
It’s got its own, very distinctive note that is a pleasure to hear in the mornings.
I love the sound of our Niche waking me up from bed. I immediately start imagining the pleasure of the tasty morning espresso coming in a minute or two…
I feel like I will never need another grinder. ❤
As a Baratza Sette owner, I wish I could still hear things.
@@8pin and then the silence of my Cremina as I’m pulling a shot… something just Zen about the pairing.
@@Mebibit RIP your eardrums, and your partners sleep in.
I love James's rants - he sounds like the voice inside my head whenever I use any form of technology, please never stop being James James ❤
Thanks for the shout out James!
An excellent run down as always. Having only experienced 5/7 of these grinders myself it was an interesting watch
I have the sette 270 Wi model, and what I love is that I don't have to worry about using a scale, especially because my machine has volumetric dosing. I agree that the build and sound is terrible, also the lid on mine will not stay on. Oh, and the sette has near zero retention which was also a big feature to me.
I'm glad you touched on sound quality and quantity. Really reinforced my decision to get the Niche. I don't want to end up hating any part of my workflow and a shrill and loud grinder would definitely detract from it
I have been using my Sette for a year now. It works for both espresso & pour overs and is clean operating with very low retention. There is nothing in its price range comparable. In line ups like this the Sette gets short shrift because less to discuss. The worst thing to point out is the sound, but the speed makes it last only10 seconds at a time. This is a solid performer at an exceptional price. Thank you for the plethora of content this month, it is like getting extra presents.
sorry to correct you, but retention is typically >= .7 grams, which for e.g. a classic standard equals 10%.
i'm still using it myself (always dumping the first gramm), but it just baffles me how some people can complain over tiny things like particle distribution while others dismiss facts in the (huge) ten percent range.
Have used the Eureka Mignon Oro Single Dose grinder for between 3 and 6 espressos every day for just over a year. It is built like a tank, sounds quality and volume is good and it’s so quick that the noise lasts for less time. Don’t use it for filter (have a Kinu M47 for V60/Aeropress) but love it for espresso.
How are you dealing with the bellowing? Does it blow fines everywhere?
@@sinosoul I have the older Specialita and bought custom-made bellows for it. It's just nice to know you don't have stale coffee from yesterday it.
I adore my lagom mini. I make espresso for drinking as a long black with splash of oat milk, or oat milk latte, and it works perfectly for that. The form factor is the real winner though. Between that and the wee bambino plus I can have a coffee station that doesn't get in the way in the kitchen. Admittedly I mostly watched this video for soothing background coffee chat.
Literally my exact same set up, and wholeheartedly agree. The quality of shots I can get w/ this combo rivals & exceeds the majority of my local coffee shops. For under $1000 total, really hard to beat.
It looks so cool !
df64 gen 2 comes with cup extender/dosing ring which makes the cup closer to the exit chute so it does not make any mess when you use the bellows
Good to know. I'm pretty interested in that one as my first electric grinder. I've been using a hand grinder by 1ZPRESSO for over a year now
1zpresso k ultra tasted 99.9 % of the time better than my previois df64 and df83!!!
I always use the extender ring and pump with the bellows on the DF64 before all the coffee has been ground, so hardly any coffee is spilt.
Yep. Also, if you press with the correct pressure, you can get the bellows to not make a mess even without the ring. But the ring makes everything better.
Also for what it's worth, it looks REALLY good in white, as opposed to the cheaper looking black that seems to be the standard.
James doing a product roundup in a price bracket; like a warm childhood blanket. ❤
I've had my DF64 Gen 2 for about 3 months and paid about $382 (I'm guessing some promo).
I'm very happy with it. I make filter coffee everyday and espresso maybe 4 days/week. Very easy to dial in and to clean the burrs. I was between that and the Niche Zero, but for the price it was a no-brainer for me.
I was just waiting for James' approval of that grinder lol.
I'm about to buy it. The only thing holding me back is the sound...is it that loud?
@@marck.5116 It’s nowhere near to being quiet. Unfortunately I don’t own another grinder to compare them. But it’s not a noisy-deal breaker to me.
@@marck.5116 I have a Gen 2. It is loudish but the sound itself grates more than the level of sound. It's smooth and quiet when running without beans. Putting the beans causes the grating. 6-8 seconds worth typically. I will/would live with it, as in terms of overall value for money, it's great.
I personally love my DF64 (v4 I believe). I actually 'sidegraded' from a Eureka Mignon Specialita and it was the best coffee decision I ever made. While it is on the louder side of things while grinding, it doesn't matter much to me. Cleaning it (burrs) doesn't really require taking it apart (which is tooless anyways) and dialing works very well. It does get messier with larger particles (at filter level) but nothing a quick wipe won't manage. For the price paid, it's a no brainer (ordered directly from df64coffee or similar, ships from Singapour I believe ?)
I got the Timemore 078s during kickstarter for what is now the list price of the 064s, and I couldn't be happier. Great grinder.
Nice! Still waiting on mine to ship. Really looking forward to it.
Same, I just got mine a week ago and my light roast pour overs have never been brighter and tastier. It also check off all the marks in aesthetics for me so I'm glad James approves as well haha
Love mine too. Unbelievable grinder.
Waiting on my 078 🥹😭
ive read/seen videos suggesting that the espresso range is very tight and that a small turn of the dial can change the output time by quite a bit (like, 1 tick = 10 seconds). Has this been your finding?
I just bought the Df64 with the sap high uniformity burrs after trying to stick with a virtuoso+ for espresso. Quality of grind from it is impeccable, machine is easy to use. No regrets after going between this and the niche for the last few months as to which to buy. Much appreciated your gen1 review of the df64, it allowed me time for me to make a much better purchase decision!
The Varia VS3 would have been a great addition to this lineup. A separate video on the DF64V would be fantastic! It’s a killer grinder…
Stellar video as usual though.🤙🏻
Agree, I also think retention should be talked about for an espresso grinder line-up like this since it heavily changes the dialing in process.
Agreed, if only because I just bought one ;)
Agreed. It's really disappointing that it wasn't included when all the reviews for the new generation are so favorable and the pricing is so competitive.
I agree the Varia deserved to be there but it might have been UK availability. The DF64V on other hand is too expensive. If the 064 is available, the prone to stall DF64V is made almost irrelevant. I concede that pricing can vary wildly. The 64v is 3/4 of the 064 in where I was situated, which made it worth it.
james, we need a PART 2!! lol
with all the ones listed here and under this comment, we ought to have enough machines for one.
To reduce retention with the Lagom Mini and minimize that waiting game, I've found that removing the top, and lightly tapping with your palm accomplishes the bellow function. I think most hands have a large enough palm given the grinder's size to create the air seal to push air through when tapping. Hope this helps!
they make aftermarket 3D printed bellows specifically for the lagom mini, and if you don't hate bellows like James does, they're a lifechanging attachment.
I just pick it up and blow on it, and make sure I don’t stick my tongue out so it doesn’t get caught in the burs, very little grinds actually come out though, I’m not sure why I still do this.
exactly
super easy and works perfectly
just keep it running and thump it :)
I have a Sette for 5 years or so now and am still very happy with it.
Yes, it is like starting a jet engine, but that never bothered me that much.
What I really like is the easy if cleaning and that is has almost zero retentions, because of the open burr.
It also ahs been very easy to 3D print a single dose hopper :)
And the speed of the Sette is insanely fast.
Is it similar to the Encore ESP? It’s the one I’m planning to get so I hope the taste review of the Sette is similar. I think they have the same or at least very similar burrs.
@@Abdullah-cj2mh From the pictures it seems based on the Sette 30, the "little Sister" of the sette 270 (which has two rings to adjust grind size)
I would expect the Encore ESP to taste very similar to the Sette 30, but I hevn't tried the 30, just the 270, where you have much fienr control over the grindsize, due to the non-setpped fine adjustment ring.
I appreciate James’s comments about the Eureka grinder. I chose a Mignon for my espresso grinder, and fully concur with the UI issues; the stepless grind adjustment is not useful for multiple brew methods but awesome for dialing in one specific method.
I find that Eureka grinders seem to be lost in the online conversation about the newest and hottest grinders, when they are solid, well built, refined performers who do their job without too much fuss.
I would actually like another adjustment wheel on my mignon - switching between two different beans can be a bit frustrating since the small wheel sits quite high above the indicator mark... switching back and forth between two espresso settings is always down to some readjusting.
I also found the alignment of the two burrs to be a bit of a weak spot. It can be quite a bit of work to get the two burrs perfectly leveled.
love the grinder but I probably would go for another option now.
@@manuelsigrist3789which one would you go for? I would like to switch between decaf and normal beans easily. Can't get the niche unfortunately though...
There’s a ton of chatter about the mignon specialitta on Reddit etc. tons of people modding it into basically a oro. The oro is just too expensive for what it is.
I bought the sette 270, 3 months ago. I’m so glad to see it up here. It’s loud, but I use it to make 3-4 espressos daily, I haven’t found the sound to be such an issue for me. I have nothing to compare it with though. Was hand grinding for espresso before, this has been a god send. I’m also happy to hear you say that, there is no apparent reason to upgrade from this grinder. As always, love your videos.
I love watching your videos because I'm still trying to find out how to make the perfect coffee for me (that also includes my equipment). As a baby coffee connoisseur, I appreciate you and the channel ❤️
I have been rocking the Eureka Mignon Specialitta for 4 years and it still produces great results. I bought a 3d printed single dose modification, but hardly ever use it. For travel purposes my old Commandante C40 still does a great job. I feel no need to ever upgrade with this setup.
I have a Sette 270Wi, which doses by weight, and I love it. It's noisy as hell, but it also turns out that I'm an incredibly deep sleeper and even that thing in the kitchen didn't really bother me. I love that I can set the weight and forget about weighing my beans. I don't really see the problem with the buttons and the display, I think it has a charming, retro look to it that it does pull off quite well. I did once manage to get it stuck after I took out the burr and it refused to go back in, so I had to spend about $100 for repair....but I do love it as an owner.
Every time I watch a long James Hoffman video, I love hearing that "and I hope you have a great day" at the end. It just melts away my anxiety ❤
I never was really happy with my old ECM Casa grinder. My best friend had the same and had problems too. Now he bought the Mignon SD and is happy. I got it three or four days to test it. Even a bad dialed in espresso was better than the best with my previous mill. I ordered the Mignon now and I am pretty sure that it will serve me well!
This is the next level! Thanks for pushing the science of coffee to new levels. Very impressive!
Want to redo the video for grinders under 200?
If you're spending that little on your grinder what are you doing watching James?
@@bluetoad2668James could be the best person to ask. He could find the hidden gem
Dont be a putz@@bluetoad2668
@@bluetoad2668stop being a putz
With the DF54 released, they aren’t wrong that a grinder around $200 should be revisited
I have a Sette 270 and one nice thing is that it does have an optional burr for pour-over that is a noticeable improvement over the stock espresso burr for that purpose. I have also noticed a much improved experience with the pour-over burr or refilling my Nespresso pods. The Nespresso (used at the office) no longer clogs or is too coarse and thin and it runs my home roasted (Ambex 2kg roaster) coffee at a good speed with excellent results.
I have been making espresso and filter coffee with the Baratza vario for the last 4 years and would be quite curious to see where it would stand in this type of comparison. Thank you for all the time you put in making these videos to educate us. Going down the rabbit hole with you as a guide has been a fantastic journey so far. Cheers!
I think the wattage draw is a great addition to these comparisons. It's used a lot for computer parts and increasingly is a great information point for home use. Thanks James!
Coffee making has been such a joy since I got my 064S , especially for *ONLY* £270 at early bird price, upgrading from a hand grinder. The wait was definitely worth it 😁
Really enjoyed the deep dive into the grinders. As an owner of an old Eureka Mignon, I agree with the frustrations regarding grind adjustment, but that aside, a solid grinder which I purchased second hand for very little money. if I could buy another for the same price, I certainly would & just use each one for different roasts.
Once again your timing is superb. Sold my higher end stuff last year as didn't feel I was getting the use out of it. Now really miss 'real' coffee and looking at getting a solid but cheaper set up, had a niche before but the rest will be really interesting. Thanks James and a Happy Christmas
Great update to your previous grinder comparison videos. Thank you for all of the work and expertise you put into this. Very valuable for less experienced home coffee makers like me.
I recently purchased a filter+espresso 1 dose grinder and found it very difficult to decide. I opted for the Varia VS3 Gen2, based on some research. Look and size were also important elements for my decision. Off course I was hoping for you to include this model in your overview, so I could learn if I had made an optimal decision or not. Maybe next time. ;)
I have the DF64 V5. I am using it with the round declumper thing, a stainless steel cup and angled holder. Works like a charm. No mess and not a lot of static. I think the DF64 is still the best bang for your buck grinder.
Valuable Friday video for us peasants. I have the Sette, only complaint is that it's WAY too loud. I also had no clue Baratza was bought out by Breville. This doesn't make me happy.
Likewise, i don't like that news. I guess we'll find out where they take the brand.
I like my 270wi... added a pice of acoustic fome behind it and it sits close to my espresso machine so for me it is not quite but better...
Hope Bevel leaves it alone
Breville purchased Baratza in 2020. Since then, they have used Baratza conical burrs in the new Impress lineup of machines and they still ha e fantastic customer service. I have a second hand Baratza Forte that had a lot wrong with it (touchscreen had dead zones, burr carrier was messed up, etc.). But, for $112 they repaired/replaced everything except the burrs themselves. So far, Breville has been doing some smart things in regards to Baratza.
@@Silatas86 Baratza burs are also in the Breville Barista Pro
Two weeks ago, I published my Eureka Oro Mignon Single Dose unboxing video on my channel. It has only been used for espresso yet and it works as I expected. The metal slot under the dose container is magnetic. If you do not want to use the dosing container, you can grind coffee directly into the basket by placing the portafilter on the metal slot. After pumping the bellows, retention is close to zero. This was a great comparison video, thanks James! 🙌
I bought the Niche years ago after watching your review, and I still love it! It has quirks for sure (the grind size indicators are completely wrong) but it looks really nice on the counter, it is very quiet (for a grinder) and the consistency of the coffee that comes out of it is excellent. A belated thank you for that review/recommendation, James 🙏
Which grind settings work for you for different methods? All the best.
@@OTNCBC When I am doing pour over I often set the grind size indicator in the region where the hinge of the "lid" is.
And for espresso I set it on the letter "e" of the word "fine". Of course it all the depends on the individual coffees... hope that helps.
Finally! A grinder review for the grinders I actually look at :P putting them all head to head!
I backed Timemore and got the early bird special, but before that I was looking at the X54, the Niche, and the mignon. :P
This will be fun to see them all stacked against eachother :) Ill update after finishing the video
I've had my Niche for over a year now.
I paid ~800€ for it with taxes and haven't really regretted buying it even for a second.
Makes excellent filter coffee and superb espresso.
It's my first real espresso grinder and will probably be my last too.
It's built like it's going to last a lifetime and it is highly serviceable.
I’ve had mine for roughly the same amount of time and feel similarly. Mine has been on espresso duty exclusively until recently, and I’ve been happy with the filter results, too.
To be honest, I wonder how much more I could get from a higher end grinder - right now I think the limiting factor may actually be my palate. For now, I’ll continue working to develop that, along with my technique.
I have had a Gen 1 DF64 for well over a year now. I am now using 4 sprits of water after weighing my beans and am very satisfied with the limited to no retention and little static I get with this machine using this method. The new DF64 seems much improved but I don’t think I can justify upgrading. The espresso I am getting is great. I have a Bezzera Aria which paired up well with this grinder for my purposes. Thanks for your channel. I always enjoy the content.
That was the most thorough and thoughtful comparison.Thank you!
Eureka Mignon Zero here. Got it as an “Open box” discount (Under $350.00) but it was as new. It is heavy, but very quiet and is a beautiful machine.
I've used the Eureka Mignon Specialita for years & want for nothing. It's easy to dial in, quiet, built very well, fast, easy to clean, very low retention, cheap, & makes great coffee. I don't change burrs & only drink espresso, so it's never been a problem.
U can put ssp burs in it custom made
Also very happy with my Specialità
@@GabrielParadelo its fine i got the newer model i never opened it tho
Came here to say the same. Very happy with it as and espresso-only, non single-dose grinder (I'm living "that life" according to JH). It's fast, quiet, robust and looks/feels really nice. I do think it's got the same issue with SSP burrs not being available though... Lance did a video with some other burr options I think.
@@bogdanadzic9305where can you get these burrs for the specialita?
Grinder comparison is what i had been looking for quite some time. As almost always you were good.
Objective and subjective where you needed to be. Brilliant work. Thank you for this great video. ❤
Had high hopes from X54. Hope they get better in the future.
Love my Lagom Mini - crazy good grind and basically no retention, with superb build quality
Shoutout to my fellow Timemore backers, we got the Hoffmann tick of approval 😂
064s master race!
I would really like to hear him compare the 064s and the 078s! (I got the 078s)
@@VarmDild are there issues with the 078s? I think it boils down to what you can afford. As someone who’s more tight on the budget, I could only afford to back the 64s at that time. But if I could, I would’ve gotten the 78s
I love my 078s. I’ve had so much consistency and ultimately a whole new world of flavour and discovery with it and the various beans I’ve put thorough it. Even a bad shot on it tastes better than some of the best shots I managed on the sage pro grinder before.
I have absolutely zero complaints with my Sette 270wi, it's worked flawlessly since I got it a few years ago and I'm so glad I splashed for the weight based dosing. It's loud, sure, but being a straight through grinder I've found it pretty clean to use
I have the same grinder and it has been great. I did have one issue with the motor. They replaced it without question and the replacement motor was much quieter than the original. Grinding into the catch bin is way easier and less messy than direct into the portafilter, and the scale seems as accurate as my coffee scale.
I have had my sette 270 for two years now and I still love it. The only downside is the sound of a starting yet engine every time when you want a coffee. But i can live with it.
DF 64 Gen 2 for me. It now comes with an extra metal attachment to the top of the cup which doubles as a great collar and makes the grinding and prep a lot less messier. Very happy with this grinder.
Wish this was pointed out in the video. The attachment can also be used on a 58mm portafilter.
Great comparison thanks! Having had most of these grinders but I would have included the Varia VS3 Gen 2 but I do appreciate they are currently hard to get hold off.
I had a Sette 270Wi for a couple of years, but I mostly make pourovers, and found that it produced too many fines, to the point that the filter would get clogged the brew would take forever. Plus it was a pain to keep clean - coffee dust got into every nook and cranny and it was kind of a pain to take apart. On the plus side, Baratza customer service was a pleasure to deal with. I had to send the grinder back to them for repair and they updated the electronics to turn it from a 270W to 270Wi for free. (I should note that Baratza does not recommend using the 270Wi as a single dose grinder - something about having a full hopper helping with it dialing in the weight calculation.)
I sold the Sette after getting a Niche, which I liked quite well. It makes great expresso, but it also produces a lot of fines (it's really easy to clean, though). I still wanted something for my daily pourovers, so I got a Lagom P64 with unimodal burrs, which is outside the price range of James' review. It produces very few fines compared to the Sette and the Niche (it depends on the coffee), but it's not as easy to get into and clean as the Niche, unfortunately. However, I love the coffee I make with even though it's overkill for pourover.
Simple, beautiful, quiet, no retention, consistent and with incredibly easy grind adjustments. The NIche Zero is the clear winner for me.
Thanks for all of this information. One of my New Year’s resolutions was to up my coffee game. Thanks to you, I now know that none of it will be espresso because I don’t have that kind of budget. Looking for a hand grinder next.
I backed early and picked up the Timemore 078 for under £500. One minor UX issue is that it's not super easy to see exactly what grind setting you're on at the fine end, especially of your coffee corner isn't well lit. I've used a chalk pen to more clearly mark the lines and it makes a huge difference. Definitely an end-game grinder for me until life circumstances dramatically change.
Another that would have been great for this comparison would have been the Varia VS3 (2nd Gen). Owned it for a couple months now, and loving the results. A huge step up from my Barista Pro built in grinder
Totally agree VS3 is in top3 with niche and df64 for me
@@bobololish I was debating Lagom Mini or VS3, so would have been nice to see both being compared by James the Great
I agree, wish he would have added it
The VS3 is too similar to the lagom mini. I don’t think this would bring much to the table
@@amitmargalit4551 VS3 seems way faster than Lagom Mini and got 38mm burrs i think vs. 48mm for the Lagom so worth a comparison I guess
Burr size is almost my only concern about VS3 I’m afraid of espresso light roast with it
And I’m not really fan of the lagom mini for reason James pointed out (grinding time, dialing, and I’m not really fan of global design)
In times of pc yt comparison reviews, its refreshing to see when James picks a winner for himself and isn't afraid to explain why. His vote may not be always aligned with his audience, as df64 gen 1 came to be one of the most popular grinders out there, but timemore did a great job in making a very competitive and capable grinder.
Another great comparison video as we all have come to expect from James. I’d also throw in another recommendation for having Varia v3 on the list
As a Timemore 064S backer I am pretty happy after watching this video. I am really hyped to get it.
I bought it for 42 thousand yen at that moment, which was probably best price for single dose grinder I can get in Japan. DF64 Gen 2 right now shows 62000 yen on their website with shipping included.
As someone who got their 064s a few months ago, it lives up to the hype, especially at the kickstarter price. One note is that some people have had issues with the screws that hold the stationary burr being loose upon delivery and then falling between the burrs during grinding. This kills the burrs. Remove the outer burr before you first use it and make sure all the screws are tight. I checked before using it and one of mine was loose.
As another 064s backer who still waiting for mine. At their kickstarter price, it was one hell of a deal even accounting all the waiting time.
Hope I will get mine soon.
I also received mine a couple months ago and I really like it. I dont like the sound, that really sucks but the rest ist great. For 300$ I dont think you will get a better grinder for that money. The 078s might be the even better deal for the money, but if you wanna spend the least possible amount of money for a good quality grinder, the 064s for Kickstarter price ist unbeatable. Have fun with it guys :)
I've had mine for over a month now. Pretty happy with it, especialy at kickstarter price😅
hi i got the 078s today.....do you mind clarifying where this loose screw is?@@AdamRapW
I’ve had a Niche for a few years now, still going strong! I have also noticed though that it does produce a decent amount of fines, especially when grinding for filter coffee. I’ve also had the same experience with the coarseness setting for filter coffee sort of being “off the charts” or past the grind setting markings.
I also have had a Niche for a while and all these years I've been grinding filter on the fine end of its range...well, my most common filter is Aeropress which isn't as sensitive but still...
I love my Niche, but I've just accepted that it produces too many fines for my pour over filter.
Any recommended grind settings/times for aeropress? @@kevadu
Do you have any specific recommended grind settings that you've found works great?
I found the fines issue tough with affordable grinders. I hd several Wilfas which were worse. With the Niche I used to slowly load the dose bit by bit which made a difference but these days I just adapt my pourover technique to fines, zero agitation works well.
Was about to buy one of the other grinders, waited thought about it, heard about Timemore´s new grinders, did some amateur coffee maths and ended up backing Timemore´s 78s.
I´m super happy I got it, a real gem. Glad you like the 64s. I uprgaded from a Porlex hand grinder, although I tried several known grinders from friends, I wasn´t completely happy with them. The 78s seemed like the ultimate move🤷♂
Absolutely stonkingly good report! Thoroughly executed and very well explained!
Would be very interested in hearing your thoughts about the Fellow Opus. At $195 (and often on sale), it promises great value, looks great, and could be a bridge between entry and mid-level for many people. As always, thanks for the great videos!
I just received my timemore, but I got the 64 as opposed to the 64s. It's been a really great addition for our setup at home and a huge improvement in our daily coffee experience. I've noticed that as the burrs are getting more and more seasoned I'm getting less static, and so I'm using less RDT... and therefore the hopper issue is getting to be less and less of an issue. I do agree that the hopper geometry is a real flaw, but everything else has been great.
I know it's not meant for espresso, but have you tried any shots with it? Waiting on mine for v60, but curious to see if it could pull the occasional espresso.
My Mignon is 5 years old, heavily used, original burrs, never missed a beat, easy and super-accurate geared adjustment for grind variation, bean to bean variation etc
I only make espresso.
It works for me definitely.
I drink exclusively espresso and espresso based drinks at home. I've had the Sette 270wi for about two years before the gearbox just went and fortunately managed to change it while still in warranty. The noise it makes truly was atrocious, but the coffee it made was excellent. I've since switched to the Niche Zero and I've had that for another two years. The coffee from the Sette was indeed a bit more clear, but the workflow and usability of the Niche is just on another level (the extra body is a plus as well for me). I've had some minor issues with my Niche though, as there was absolutely no grease from the factory on the adjustment threads, which made the grind adjustment move a bit while grinding. A super easy fix with a bit of food-grade silicone grease.
First off, I think I can speak for most viewers in saying that the new technology you’ve brought to reviews such as the particle size analyzer and more objective sounds testing are fantastic and exactly what we are looking for!
Second, I owned the DF64 Gen 2 for a very brief period and it had a myriad of problems. I’m making a video of my own to summarize them, because I think most reviewers have tried the original DF64 and are a bit blinded by the improvements they made on the new machine. I’ve never tried the original, and therefore the gen 2 was not an improvement in any way for me, it was just a decent grinder in some ways that still had several problems.
In the weird Canadian market, I was able to get an Ode gen 2 for my workhorse filter grinder and a Varia VS3 gen 2 for an espresso grinder that makes 1-2 espresso a day for the cost of a DF64 gen 2. I’m now very happy with both my filter and espresso, I feel no need to upgrade my burrs in the near future, and my mornings are a lot more peaceful (dang that DF64 gen 2 was loud!)
Lol seems a bit much to have two different grinders for filter vs. espresso. Or is this like your main hobby? Just can't imagine doing that for me
@@hugotendam5349 nothing wrong with having the right tool for the job if you can afford it both monetarily and physically haha. Though I personally agree it is a bit odd 😜
The df64 gen 2 improvementa are embarassing. Silly dial indicator, dosong cup that rattles in the forks, bellows that always makes a huge counter mess, that horizontal flat burr design will always retain alot more coffee in its chamber vs vertical mounts. Yea the plasma generator helps very slighty but damn i still get huge buildup in the chute regardless of declumper design or no declumper at all
@@im_Spade_ true true. I have many BBQ's too so I am a bit of a Hypocrite in this case. I am trying to find out what motivates people to buy grinders. Isn't there one that does it all?
@@hugotendam5349 haha yes I also thought it was silly to own two grinders each for a specific purpose when there are more and more solid all-purpose grinders on the market. What sold me was the cost. I could make an argument that it’s annoying to switch back and forth since I make both everyday, but that really isn’t enough to justify two grinders. What sold me was that I could get way better filter coffee and espresso that was on par and not have the annoyance of one grinder, all for the original cost I was willing to pay for one grinder. And, it certainly is one of my main hobbies haha.
Thanks for another great comparison video!
I have owned a Baratza Sette for a few years now, and I am very happy with it. Yes, it is very noisy and it does feel a bit more plasticky than some other grinders BUT it is plenty strong and has yet to show a sign of weakening.
For those who want to buy the Baratza Sette, something worth mentioning: you can buy the Sette 30 - which lacks micro adjustment vs the 270 - and then upgrade the burr for about 70€ and save 30€ in the process. The sette 30 has only one time setting (vs 3 for the Sette 270) but I don't think that is a great feature anyhow, the front of the machine is neater and les cumbersome with less buttons anyhow.
Is is quieter?
That is, is the Sette 30 more quiet than the 270?
@@monicas3690 No, it is the same body & motor, so just as loud :)
I've been using the Mignon for almost two years now, and I absolutely adore the quality of the coffee it produces. I chose it specifically for espresso, knowing it excels in that area. However, for our V60 brewing, my husband and I prefer a manual grinder, which adds to our enjoyment of the process.
The grinder's quality is truly remarkable, and it complements our coffee corner perfectly. Seeing it featured in the video brought me even more joy.
Would love to see someone do Kolmogorov-Smirnov tests on those grind size distributions. That might help give a sense for how meaningful the differences are, espeically given the variance we see on the coarser end of the spectrum. I bet you can get a much smoother probability distribution if you aggregate across a bunch of measurements, too.
Something like that would certainly be useful or any kind of idea of error magnitude. I love James and his videos but the experimental research scientist in me is sceptical whenever a few % differences between lines within the noise spread of the data are referred to as significant or large.
Same. I spend a lot of time with this kind of data at work and my first thought was whether we can realistically reject the Null here. I'm guessing that kind of math is a bit beyond the scope of a coffee channel. But if James were to start a coffee science sister channel, I'd be the first subscriber. @@tommangan7
The Df64V in my view is a more direct competitor for the Niche, considering it's price point. Sill a bit cheaper at around 600€ it's a great grinder, though obviously as in most iterations of the DF series, the quirks are definitly there. The motor tends to stall easily on low rpm and the rpm display is always on (which is quite fixable though). However the magnetic chute and the overall build quality are just pretty phenomenal. Definitly deserves a closer look.
DF64V is more a match vs The Timemore 064s Specs wise.
Have you got a fix for turning of the RPM display bar switching off at the wall?
Yes, I simply plugged a single port power adapter with a switch between the wall and the DF64V so I can turn it off completely after use. @@charleshennings8144
Such a great evalution love the honestly and feel feedback. Well done James
Very VERY good video on grinders.
Thanks James!
I live in south africa and with import tax and shipping the Niche Zero becomes more like a 700+ (little guestimating, since I haven't checked shipping recently) pound grinder. I have gotten a Eureka Mignon Manuale as a stopgap since I needed a grinder for home espresso and it was the most affordable option at the time, I have also fitted bellows since it isn't really designed for single dosing, but that's mostly how I use it on a day to day basis. I really like the grinder, however without the bellows it has really bad retention, upwards of 1.5g, it compares nicely to the cafe I work at's Mahlkonig E65s grinder, at a fraction of the price.
This video has kinda convinced me that the Niche is no longer the be all end all home grinder (for espresso), especially not with taxes and shipping.
I've been running a Sette 270 (Wi version, with the scale) and it's been absolutely great. I do grind directly into the portafilter, though, and i've never noticed any clumping. Definitely a very noisy one, though, but made up for that by grinding so quick. I'd rather have 7 seconds of loud than 30 of medium sound :D
I really hate the sound of the Sette 270 in my kitchen 😢😢 would rather wait in peace for a quiet grinder. I'm rarely in a rush to make coffee. And when I am, for example, when serving guests, the noise really gets in the way all the same.
I do agree with most things. The big big advantages for the Sette are no clumping and almost no retention. But the looks and the sound are honestly just really really bad. Pricing was the biggest factor when I bought it three years back. Would buy the Niche now and probably will at some time if there is no new competitor.
Love my sette 270 wi
@@AppleGameification Very fair! I'm not in a rush either, but the convenience of going from an empty cup to a full cup in a minute flat makes up for it, for me.
Not only is there no clumping, I’ve found that even going directly into the portafilter, no wdt is needed with my 270wi.
I've been using a Mignon Zero at home for a few months now, and honestly very happy with it. I did buy it exclusively for espresso, and I'm not the kind of person that wants to think about upgrading the parts on my machine. I've enjoyed that it's a quiet, clean, and consistent machine. If you don't want to spend any time thinking about your espresso grinder, it's a great (if boring) choice.
Did you choose the zero cause it was cheaper than the specialitta? Or cause you didn’t want the digital screen?
After spending a month researching, I found it difficult to pick the right option until now. Great info!
The best upgrade for any DF64 owners (I have the original) is to 3D print a holder for the grind cup that angles the cup and move it closer to the nozzle. I only get static and mess when grinding coarse, for daily espresso it works flawlessly and cost very little!
I've changed the declumper to a thinner foil type one and now it doesn't need the bellows and is much less messy. , that would be my no1 recommendation
I've been happy with the Niche Zero for espresso. When I initially got it I used it for filter too, though I eventually purchased an Ode as my primary filter coffee grinder and very recently purchased my "end game" grinder, the Lagom P64, for filter and espresso. I'm going to keep the Niche however, I enjoy the sweet, textured and heavy bodied shots it produces especially when grinding dark roasts.
What made you replace the Niche zero for filter coffee? I'm looking for a grinder which preferably could do both for around 500bucks
@@Justme28795 The filter coffee with the Niche had a lot of body, but lacked clarity and sweetness. I opted for the ode with SSP MP burrs since that produces some of the cleanest tasting cups of coffee. I think if you are into medium and dark roasts the niche is fine for filter but if you are seeking a filter grinder for light roasts, I would look elsewhere.
Yay! You picked my grinder. I immediately put SSP burrs in mine upon arrival and I'm pretty happy with it so far.
Hi James, great vid!
2 years with my Eureka and I love it. Worth mentioning that you can get it in white, black, or chrome (which I have) which looks fantastic next to my stainless ECM machine and the grinder feels solid and premium.
I don't have issues with changing to filter as I've created a process for going to and fro but the numbers and markings on the grind dial are beginning to fade so I am now cautious with changing it.
The sound is also very pleasant and great to see it comparably nicer than the others in this video.
I wasn't aware of the incompatibility of the burrs which is a shame but I hadn't considered an upgrade.
Another small annoyance I have is the button being on the right side quite far back, and as my espresso machine sits to the right of my grinder it means I have to squeeze my hand in to turn it on/off, I would much prefer the switch to be on the top.
Also worth noting you can take the bellows off and just sit the lid on the hopper if you don't wish to use them!
I'd love to see a video comparing grinders in the category you suggested for the Lagom Mini. Ones that kind of thread that needle for entry level coffee enthusiasts that want good to great filter coffee and good espresso, with bonus points for under $400 or so. The two that come to mind are the Fellow Opus and Baratza Encore ESP.
FWIW I kinda like the Mini more than the P100 even for espresso. It might be my favorite grinder and I've tried a lot of them. While the Mini is accessible to entry level, imo the performance solid