The Boost Control in Sonic Games
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- Опубліковано 3 лют 2023
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It really took Sonic Team 13 years make Sonic turn in a circle
• Green Hill Zone - Soni...
• Sonic Adventure 2 ✪ Ci...
• Sonic Unleashed - Roof...
• Sonic Unleashed - Sava...
• Sonic Generations: Cri...
• Sonic Generations: Che...
• SONIC FORCES - Metropo...
• Sonic Generations: Spe...
• Sonic Forces Stage 29 ...
• Sonic Frontiers [Part ...
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PK, Diamond, who could be next?
@@Itz_Jello we’ll see what happens!
@@oreogod1985 What about cyberspace physics. Yes, Cyberspace physics. Also there is drift in cyberspace 3-5
you never had to invite diamond to the video 💀
but everything else you did a pretty good job
The one thing that I don’t like about the momentum when you jump your momentum is just is killed after you jump
SEGA was so confident in Sonic's controls for Frontiers that they made one of the biggest gimmicks running in circles
That's eggactly what I was thinking!
"EGG"
is this a good or a bad thing🤔?
@@waytoolazyy Good 😁
after watching the video half way thru. i realized that it is a good thing
I think why unleashed also controls better at low speeds is because unleashed had hub worlds unlike generations. Sonic had to at least control well in the hub worlds which is something generations got rid of.
"better" isn't exactly how I'd put it but that's highly dependent on level design
@@SoniaSpectrumhi
3:42 Huge thanks for your friend bro!!
It was getting pretty cold here, but that hot take warmed up my whole house.
Good one lol
The best thing Frontiers did was giving the boost gauge a cool down; the meter will refill for a few second rather than having the player refill it manually.
Yeah the boost got buff and nerf which is good
And they made it better on update 2🎉
You can actually have infinite boost by drawing a sideways 8 with that said boost
@@granfill…you mean an infinity sign?
Technically the boost has been a thing since 2005 with sonic rush
Yeah but it was sonic unleashed was the first boost game that was 3d.
If we're taking about technicalities, there was still 3D in Rush. You're not boosting during these sections, but semantics.
The Forces in Sonic Forces makes sense now, they meant the force of my controller hitting my monitor due to the shitty controls! Bravo SEGA!
Bro😂
I cannot lie the amount of times I've died at that light speed dash section in chemical plant during speed runs is insane.. it's so unresponsive
5:20 “He just…shuffles”
Missed opportunity for a joke there
In Colours, the boost is used more as a burst of speed, and knowing when and where you need that burst of speed to get across platforms is quite interesting. Sonic's aerial momentum in Colours is so nice as well, the double jump tying things together as you find the best way to blitz across the level design.
agreed. the control in frontiers is great in the open world but once you get into cyberspace it controlls so badly, million times worse than the previous boost games (not including forces because obviously). If they could do anything is to have the boost similar to colours as i am certain that there wont be a game that controls in boost as well as unleashed and generations. colours runs of a different physics engine and has just different physics but if they could extract the colours level of boost control at least to the cyberspace stages it would be almost a perfect game for me.
I find Colors to be the third best boost game, it's only my opinion but I like Generations and Unleashed more, this video did say that there would be some opinions in it which is fine by me but a lot of them came off as being true when it's not as black and white.
My response that no one asked for about gens is that I agree to a point but unleashed was way too slippery at high speeds. You physically can not slow down quickly, and idk how you consider sonic's turn while boosting to be tight. The platforming sections were a bit jank, but so were unleashed's, and I don't want to come off as rude here, but it doesn't take much practice to become proficient in even those sections.
Facts
Unleashed platforming barely existed but when it was did it was indeed pretty jank. I'd say generations is easy to get to a decently high level of playing simply because of how well constructed the physics are for high level players. whereas Unleashed didn't really have much thought put into the actual physics
Idk. I’ve always preferred unleashed controls favourably since I was younger. Even after revisiting the game when I was older, it just feels better to me. Yeah it was slippery but I’d take that any day over the tanky sonic we got in gens.
When I first played gens I enjoyed it but it was so tanky, it felt so weird. There is a reason why people still want an unleashed port to PC despite there being a 1:1 recreation of all of the unleashed stages excluding Eggman land
@@jamrah8713 what do you meen by tanky
@@SoniaSpectrum
Eh, Unleashed had more sophisticated physics than any other 3d Sonic game, including Generations, although they are similar. Also, Unleashed had plenty of platforming, even if most of it was in side acts.
I think that the Frontiers jump shouldn't be that hard to fix without taking control from the player.
I think that Sonic Team should bring back the short hop from Gens and Unleashed (the little jump that happens when you slightly press jump) but instead of making it like it’s either a short hop or a full jump they should make it where the longer you hold the jump Sonic loses more speed but gains more height and vice-versa, and make an animation with Sonic going from a short hop to the Spin Jump so the player can easily see when they should let go of the jump so they reach their destination, in this case Sonic doesn't lose speed immediately like Frontiers and isn't a nightmare to control like Forces.
They could add a toggle for air momentum. The game starts with inertia turned off by default, but the player can enable it in the menu.
@@bluestar5812they added that
The thing I really like about this channel is talking about the little but huge things new gen sonic players don't really talk about game mechanics and level of detail!
keep up the good work OreoGod!
Thanks so much! The little details always interest me so it’s nice to be able to be vocal here!
Did he just criticize Generations??? Never thought the day would come where I see that happen...
Ik bro i js wouldnt let that slide.
Generations is kinda mid,why?level taken from the past so the originality is 0,ok about level design wtf is so great about it?there is nothing to enjoy like unleashed ,the levels are to easy to master no S ranks to grind for,the boost is super wrong it feels so slow,2D sections all over the place and so on and color wisp....really?
@@TascaBeni No originality?..
BUDDY ITS A ANNIVERYSIARY GAME DUHHH.
@@Tht1SonicFan so?wasted opportunity to make something original and something good,not as boring as this
Exactly for frontiers could completely agree, but the one thing that annoys me is it has no hit on enemies in cyberspace and doesn't feel fast at all in it too since all enemies are one hit.
Other than that love the vid keep up the great work
Yeah and when you hit enemies the time it takes to actually move again takes a WHILE
Thank you!
Why does nobody talk about how the Boost Formula was a concept from _NiGHTS into Dreams?_ The Drill Dash in that game is basically the boost - it speeds up the player and attacks enemies.
I didn’t actually know about that, but also because nights isn’t sonic
Oh thank GOD. I thought I was the only one who could see how sluggish and awkward Generations feels to control. Especially in levels like Planet Wisp or that extra mission in Sky Sanctuary with Knuckles.
That dude talking about generations had skill issue 💀
nah he's telling facts
Yeah, I haven't played the game, but his examples are him just simply not playing well. The fact that someone who hasn't played the game like me can see that he just had a skill issue is a problem.
@@yoboi8972I don't really agree, besides some of the platforming being ass, every statement he made was somewhat false and or just a skill issue.
@@cringlord1920what about the boost makes you feel so slow?the game is mid not gonna lie
Oh finally, I'm not the only one who thought Sonic's controls feel wrong in Gens, especially the air dash, doing that move gives the worst feeling ever.
At least you can air dash unlike unleashed
I don't see how they feel wrong, they're probably the best controls in a boost game. They feel responsive and fluent, a problem I have with Colors is that the base movement is janky and when you're at high speeds, you're extremely stiff and can barely turn. Sonic Unleashed is pretty good but I felt like you accelerated a bit too quickly and movement feels somewhat slippery, especially when you're platforming or trying to drift.
@@cringlord1920naaah
That was interesting. Frontiers’s control is pretty much peak gaming lol. Great video! 👍
Should be mentioned that Frontiers gets some bonus points for the extra control sliders it provides in the settings
Oh definitely
Resuming the Generations part:
Skill issue
Accurate. I felt like dying when he compared the controls to Forces and said he hates the game.
@@marguya4643 "Look at this clip, the controls are so bad" and shows a clip of him running to a death pit in planet wisp where he could just jumped and boosted, like, wtf
@@maomax8922 That was a very fraudulent act on his part, anytime I play that level you can pass that short bottomless pit by doing a Boost and a short hot and it's really rewarding to do.
fr
yea
Bruh Sonic Generations is one of my favourite Sonic games yet I still agree that the controls feel heavy and slippery.
Edit: also after reading the comments it looks like almost everyone agrees that Generations controls feel like trash, glad it wasn't just me.
Sonic unleashed, colors, and forces,: yeah, we be moving fine, just going straight
Sonic frontiers: CIRCLE
my take on sonic in the boost formula is that sonic works better with open controls in an open area, but vice versa is also true
sonic works in unleashed because the levels are built with sonic's stricter controls in mind, and the open zone of frontiers is the opposite of this
personally, I don't like careening off the edge of the stage due to my controls being either too sensitive or tight (thanks, start of 1 - 2 )
Finally someone with the same opinion on generations as me. I still love generations
I would love to hear your response since it honestly opens up my mind to more information so take this as somewhat of a question but statement at the same time. If you ask me, I honestly think Unleashed is my favorite boost game since not only was it my first but the one I played the most, but in a completely unbiased term it's hard to say which is the best between Generations and Unleashed, I feel like some of the criticisms made towards Generations in this video were pretty biased, now yes he did make some good points like how the 2D platforming felt awkward and somewhat sluggish but then he makes statements like how the movement as a whole feels bad when that's kind of not true, the movement was practically one to one with Unleashed but expanded upon it like having a better drift and not to mention the level design supporting the fast paced gameplay of Gens. I still want to hear your opinion though and I promise to respect it even if I don't completely agree 👍
Actually scratch that... Forces was my first boost game.. actually no.. Scratch that, it was my FIRST Sonic game...
@@cringlord1920 see here's the thing. I actually prefer the drift in unleashed. It's just satisfying once you master it. Generations actually made the drift worse and it's a little too tight. The light dash is just awful in generations i will say that. The stomp in unleashed keeps your velocity keeping your flow while in generations it puts you to a complete stop.
@@aahiljcat There is no reason to master it when it doesn't even do its purpose correctly. Take Skyscraper Scamper for example. Theres this one part where you leave a tunnel and need to drift to get to another one, the problem is that the drift doesn't work since you can't make the right turns that the level design is made for. I'm starting to think that people are purposely making stuff up just to try and win the argument, even the drift which is undoubtedly better in Gens is being called worse than Unleashed, I'm having a hard time believing that you actually think the drift in Unleashed is better and not just making it up just to have an argument
@@cringlord1920 I'm not even making stuff up. I can make every turn properly in unleashed
Honestly, the only issue I have with Sonic's control in Generations is when you have the power ups equipped that increase his acceleration and top speeds. Running around slowly in circles just isn't all that important in a game that's all about maintaining high speed forward momentum, and using those power ups makes him feel so slippery in that regard. And the jumps themselves aren't the problem, but the way the levels are designed around them. Every gap or raised platform is positioned in such a way that your jump has just enough height and/or distance to clear it, but nothing else, so you can't really take advantage of positioning or speed to make better jumps. Those yellow blocks in Chemical Plant shown at 3:12 are a perfect example of this. You just have to jump each block one at a time instead of being able to jump over multiple or clear the entire set through skillful play. It'll even sometimes look like you're just shy of making some extra progress with a jump, but it always ends in disappointment and having to repeat the same platforming challenges in the same way every time.
Yeah that’s why I could never get behind the controls of it, it just felt a bit too clunky for me, haven’t really replayed it much in the last couple years because it’s one of the first things I think of
You want jump momentum in Frontiers? No problem. Update 2 of Sonic Frontiers is here to cover exactly that.
for me the best controlling boost game is unwiished, the controls in that game feel really tight, even at very high speeds, i keep finding myself drifting just to slightly adjust my position and it feels great!
the one thing that i don’t like in unwiished is that at lower speeds it feels awful to control, although the game very rarely has you slow down to do some platforming, especially if you take the fastest route
In Frontiers, hold the boost button down while jumping and you won't quickly lose momentum.
So... About Forces.
Sonic Forces, for some ungodly reason, has 8-direction movement. This means that Sonic is unable to do a full circle like in Unleashed and Frontiers. This also messes up the entirety of Sonic's control and the avatar as well. I still have no idea why SEGA thought 8-directions movement was a good idea.
Wait are you fucking serious. A 3D game with 8 direction movement. Holy shit that’s…the worst decision I’ve ever heard of oh my god
Can't go a month without hearing some insane development decision behind Forces lmao
@@gamejitzu forces really is somethin else
@@oreogod1985 Yeah I'm unfortunately serious. One of the most downloaded mods for Forces on GameBanana is "Full 3D Movement" which attempt to fix it.
@@KingTvlip and I’m guessing even that mod has flaws
Great video as always, man! 👍👍
The base controls in Generations are ass no doubt about it but if you get the speed-up perk it improves it ten fold, I have no idea why they made him so slow smh
How did they make Sonic slow? He's basically the same speed as Unleashed Sonic and is definitely faster than Colors, Forces and Frontiers
@@cringlord1920bruh just boost and you will see how sonic is so slow in gens fr
Sonic frontiers update 2 fixed the issue of jump killing your momentum by changing it so you can now toggle an option to keep your boost going, preventing your aerial momentum from dying.
Me everytime I play a sonic game: "I hate how he feels I wish he was like my previous sonic game."
I think the same thing about "the previous game."
Your videos are always so good! You deserve at least another 30k subs!
Keep gong and keep improving!
Thanks so much! I’m gonna keep working hard!
Gens had the best controls just because frontiers has awful feeling speed. The controls were still always good for the level design they aimed for. The point of the boost was exactly that you can't control your speed easily, but you can go fast instantly
You can have physics while also not feeling like Sonic is entirely out of your control
The Adventure games do this well
The classics do this well
Colors does this well
It’s just that Unleashed, Generations, and Forces all feel stiff, anti-platforming, restrictive, heavy, tanky, stilted, and unwieldy. I want Sonic to move away from that kind of control for future boost games, and I'm glad Frontiers is doing that.
Finally someone feels the same way about sonic generations as I do. Good level design but it’s bogged down by the bs controls.
Another amazing video 🗿🍷
I really think u should've added Unwiished to this cus THAT 1 is interesting to say the least
we are so happy just because sonic can turn and make a circle
Geez, Diamond had a big rant. Good topic!
2:46 I've only played Generations before Frontiers and I always thought the turning is that bad in the other 2 games prior LMAO
The contorl for unleashed and frontiers is so good I just hope that SEGA doesn’t make the contorl for the next game
Your videos are pretty fun
"Which has technically been a thing since 2008".
Uh, Sonic Rush rang.
The boost in sonic frontiers feel like the run button from lost world
Because my gosh sonic is a snail in those game
It's nice to see someone share my complaints about how crappy Gens feels to control. Its a shame really, if it wasn't for that I'd probably still play vanilla Generations boost stages. Thank goodness mods are a thing though, because I cant deal with a game that controls like Gens. (The same goes for classic sonic too).
@OctoOOZ Imagine Unleashed Controls but with even slower turning, an half-uncontrollable jump that requires you to be a whole Sonic's height a platform to actually land on it, an air boost that can't transition to the ground and sends you way too far to be used effectively, a stomp that can hardly cancel your momentum and at half Unleashed's speed and a general feeling of an artificial controlling of Sonic. By that I mean he doesn't feel smooth to control, even down to how animations transition between each other make him feel clunky. He also bounces off walls on the side like a pinball, which is a pain in stages like sky sanctuary and crisis city.
Now in Unleashed, this may not be that bad. But imagine if all the levels I Unleahed had the same focus on tight platforming as Dragon Road's third spinning platforming section. It would be hell. Yet that is how half the 3D sections in Gens work. Painful platforming.
@@jazzy_burrito all of the problems you mentioned are problems with unleashed as well, and the one's concerning a lack of controll in my and many others opinion are much worse in unleashed
@The Friendly Default But Unleashed understands and accommodates this(I'll admit, not in the entrance stages), but Gens just doesn't. I still think that besides the drift, Unleahed controls better in every aspect. I do have one nitpick with Unleashed tho, and that's when you can't boost during certain scripted sections. Like whenever you land on a Dragon in Dragon Road.
@OctoOOZ It's something you more feel when playing than just watching, but if you watch Unleashed gameplay and Gens gameplay back to back, you could see things such as how odd a short hop or landing from a jump or landing from a rail switch (the rail switch one is the most offensive one honestly) looks in Gens. It's really a small nitpick that people who have only played either game wouldn't really notice, but as someone who has extensively played both and does some animation of their own, It bothers me a bit, particularly because Unleashed got it all right.
@@jazzy_burrito funny you metion side jumping of of a rail to running because that has one of the largest fraim counts for transition animations for both games
6:38
Oh Oreogod! I think it’s fixed in the new update!
This was really interesting, so weird that they changed Sonic's movement so much over the span of a couple of games
also on top of that, mapping the boost to the right trigger on controller is honestly such a great idea for frontiers & i hope sega continues that for future games
The thing is in frontiers sonic feels nice in the overworld but in the boost stages he feels absolutely terrible to control to the point it brought the game down and made me not want to play those stages or the game again
I never liked how Sonic controls felt in Generations. He was so heavy, hos acceleration was slow, the walking and running animations didn't sync with his actual speed so it felt like he was sliding in ice. Man, 3D controls really degraded from one game to another since Unleashed.
But they had nailed Sonic's controls in 3D space in Lost World.
True but it's not like Unleashed didn't have any problems either, The acceleration had the exact opposite problem and was way too quick. The drift felt off and the turning was pretty stiff, not to mention how hard it was to stop yourself.
Those are Generations base speed and controls dude! Equipping him with skills like Speed up, Acceleration, Power Break, Athleticism, etc makes the controls shit on Unleashed.
Yeah bro was trippin saying it feels almost as bad as Forces. That’s a WILD take
@@TheJmack90 That take weak me to be honest. Imagine saying Generations controls almost as bad as Forces💀💀💀 and it's definitely a skill issue on the guys part as he was playing crisis city act 2 which is one of the most challenging levels in Generations and it's one of my favourites to Speedrun. If you're bad at Generations platforming then just don't play that level as it requires skillful play 🗿🗿🗿
@@marguya4643 It’s like saying Sonic Mania feels almost as bad to control as Sonic 4. Your credibility would be shot lol
@@TheJmack90 Very
Exactly - the skills make a ton of difference.
Personally, I feel that, while "controllable", Frontiers feels extremely unnatural. Like, Sonic can IMMEDIATELY turn in any direction no matter his speed, he can IMMEDIATELY stop at any moment if you let go of the left stick (which is very annoying, because in every other game he slowly decelerates, he only brakes if you push the stick in the opposite direction). It feels *way* too arcade-y.
Generations with skills, on the other hand, feels "just right". Tight enough, controllable enough, on-the-rails enough, floaty enough, sharp enough, NATURAL ENOUGH. Especially his jump is the best it's ever been in the series, so, I don't know why they disliked the jump at all. To each their own, surely, but it's a significant hot take.
I feel like boosting works a lot like moving a car at full speed, turning is hard when moving faster but its normally much easier to go left and right when you arent boosting
That's how it works in general, not just cars.
2:31 the Doomsday Music lmao
2:36 me to @Diamond556: so you have chosen…. D€@th.
I find that the boost ANIMATION in forces is the best of them all
Diamond woke up and choose violence
The doomsday zone music in Diamond's speech made me feel his aggression
BOOST YOUR SPIRIT OFF THE GROUND *continue*
IMA SPARK THAT WONT GO OUT
WE CAN GO MUCH HIGHER NOW
GRAVITY CANT HOLD US DOWN!!!
WE’RE ONLY AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS ONE WAY DREAM
IGNITE
I like how Frontiers boost isn’t overpowered
Mom no time for a bath, Oreo God uploaded!
I've been playing both unleashed and gens for a long time and always felt gens controls to be way worse, i think i know the reason now
Great video as always but the first ever sonic game that uses the boost formula was sonic rush which was released on 2005.
Hot take: unleashed feels better to play than frontiers
OreoGod in 3000:
Ranking every ring in sonic games
There may or may not be a certain video planned for April 1st👀
Trying to do a super Sonic run in crisis city act 2 made the controls being bad very apparent as I tried to get as many rings early on with them being spread across tiny platforms. He couldn’t turn or gain enough momentum to go around a very small platform and was just very stiff.
Lmao the homie Diamond
That Gens Control slander was pretty harsh like d a m n
I agree with everything except for the level design argument on Gens. W vid
I don't know man, to me that generations control rant sounds like a *skill issue*
Looking through the comments you will find many people who agree gens doesn’t control good. The guy is a smash bros god there’s no way he of all people would have a skill issue lol
Well now jumping doesn’t halt his momentum which is good
i alwaysed loved air boosting in forces but tbh the sonic rush trilogy I believe handled boosting the best
Forces air boost was awesome! Truly one of the best things about that game. Yet, Sonic Team with their usual 180 turns, decided to scrap yet another good idea from a bad game.
(With the "usual 180 turns" I mean how, after a bad game, they decide to scrap everything about it altogether. For example, Sonic 06 was a bad game but Shadow's story and character was perfect. After 06, they completely revamped Shadow into an unnecessary edgelord and he was ruined.)
Generations is so slippery it’s like sonic put soap on his shoes. SOAP SHOES LOL
Frontiers sonic controls good until you go into cyberspace
Sonic forces is really hard to control and for me as well the characters are so so slippery
guess its different for everyone, but i really had no problems with generations, don’t see how you could go so far as to compare it to forces. the jumping is kinda meh tho
Amazing vid! Personally, I hate the power boost in frontiers I think it makes Sonic go too fast and makes him hard to control.
It's because the collision is broken. You know, Sonic jumps up and down and all around when you're running, sometimes blasts off a slope and sometimes hits rock bottom. If you were going in a straight line and not through rocky/mountainous terrain, it'd feel much better.
Honestly? I prefer the way the boost games handle to the Adventure games. Blasphemy I know, but I always found him too be too floaty and sensitive in SA1 and 2. In the boost games it felt like he had actual weight, and you had to put effort into steering yourself and managing your speed. It reminded me more of the Classics than the Adventure games did.
Hmm that’s fair, from what I’ve seen the adventure jump seems really high and bouncy, not sure how it translates to gameplay but that’s definitely interesting!
@@oreogod1985 you should try them out if you haven't already,
1:22 I agree with you.
As a Sonic Frontiers player in 2024, I can confirm that the momentum cancel has been fixed
Finally someone using the Italian sonic unleashed
It doesn't have an Italian dub
@@thatitalianlameguy2235 I also forgot that italian and japanese sound the same
all of sonics boost auras look good 😆
We now have a Sonic visual novel too.
Really dig these videos but uh, when you getting a better mic?
Great video! Honestly thought I was the only one that disliked Generations control
Though I noticed you didn't talk about Cyber Space control- what would you have said about it?
Hmm it’s shocking to me how much worse he controls than in the open world, I can’t believe he got fumbled that bad in terms of moving in a circle lol
Lost World is my favourite sonic game
Also u missed the first update u can do it in cyber space it’s really fun in frontiers
I love frontiers but the air boost is terrible in that game, you jump and boost and barley move over and inch, I'm not saying make it op like in unleashed but make it so you actually gain distance.
It feels especially terrible during Knights introduction Gameplay section
Tbh I don’t see much of a difference between unleashed and gens boost controls 👀
Have Premy react to this lol
If only I had a connection to him lol
DIAMOND CAMEO IN HERE!?
I agree with how stiff as heck Generations and Forces are after playing a lot of Frontiers. I swear I thought I was delusional and playing a different game but nope. Glad to know I wasn't the only one to see the difference after Frontiers.
(Also, nitpicking here but wish you got higher quality footage since there are some footage that are stuck in 2007 240p.)
Yeah gens honestly doesn’t feel too great, but also on the video quality that’s because I’m a switch player and that’s all I can really do, the other footage in this video is from other UA-camrs, I’m pretty poor lol
@@oreogod1985 Switch gameplay is alright, I'm just saying for the other footage in this video lol
@@JadtheRad really? At which time stamp lol just wondering what footage not to use
@@oreogod1985 Unleashed Cool Edge
@@JadtheRad ohh yeah that’s one I gotta delete lol
Boost was a thing since 2003😅
Frontiers control suffer from lack of momentum, he stops on a dime and does hairpin turns as if there's no momentum. It's incredibly jarring and feels wonky to control. Something Sega really needs to address in a follow up game.
I have to disagree with Generations. That game has some of the best controls in my opinion.
Unleashed and generations will probably be the best sonic boost game forever
Well, I hope they manage to make something better lol
Forces sonic controls like how nails on a chalkboard sound
I think you should've mentioned unwiished, I believe it has flaws, but is pretty good