The Sonic Boost Formula Is Being Mishandled
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- The Sonic boost formula has been mishandled for the past decade. Here's why.
More Information Below
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Timestamps:
The Boost Formula Has A Problem: (0:00)
Sonic Rush Set The Standard: (2:00)
The 3 Things That Makes The Boost Formula Good: (5:24)
Sonic Unleashed Is A Perfect Boosting Game: (7:56)
Sonic Colors Is Great But Not Perfect: (9:17)
Sonic Generations Is Great With A Terrible Ranking System: (10:43)
Sonic Forces Is The Worst Boosting Game: (12:57)
Sonic Frontiers Is Not A Good Boost Game: (16:17)
Outro: (21:19)
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Links:
Twitter: / matthasnocuts
My channel to subscribe: / matthasnocuts
Discord server: / discord
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Credits:
Outro music: • Beneath the Pond - Per...
Sonic Forces, Sonic Heroes, Adventure Pack Stages Footage: @Anon7906
Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Rush Footage: @FCPlaythroughs
Thumbnail Boosting Art: www.deviantart.com/frosttheho...
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I make theories about tv shows, video games, and much more. I make a lot of video essays and discussion videos mostly. If you ever want to speak to me, make sure to join my discord server in the link above.
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Software used:
Video editing software: Premiere Pro
Graphic design: Photoshop cs6
Screen recorder: Elgato/obs/other options
Microphone: Shure SM7B
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#sonicfrontiers #sonic #sega - Ігри
I’m glad Sonic Team is sticking to the Open-Zone formula and improving on it so it’s not like they do random stuff and see what works and what doesn’t
Ehhhhhhh we don't EXACTLY know that yet....
@@banjonkashootiefortheps4403 They’ve said it multiple times that this is gonna be the direction of the series going forward
@@banjonkashootiefortheps4403 yes we do, lizuka and kitiemoto have confirmed a 1000 times
0:10
I think Sonic Team wanted to branch out to wider audiance or something with Heroes, they could’ve revisited the gameplay style afterward’s (key word: could’ve).
I don’t remember.
@@Tam3603 Saying something and actually accomplishing something are two *veeeeeeery* diffrent things. I mean this is part of why it got to this point in the first place. They tone things down, change things up or throw in gimmicks on something that started off great and then goes horribly off the rails. The boost formula was great and had potential... And what do they do? Sonic colors introduces the wisps. It's cute, and the gimmicks don't entirely dominate the game but it starts to skew a little. Then we get lost world and it went into a who the fuck knows direction.
Sonic games have a history of having something that has potential and then veering off in another direction entirely. Even when they do try to keep an idea they introduce things that generally detract or sidetrack from it.
We don't know how or in what way they will take certian pieces of feedback. I mean hell here's a thought... "The major downturn in sonic frontiers was the cyberspace levels." which then leads to "okay let's axe it completely and step away from boost... Completely."
Yeah what makes boost formula engaging to me especially in Unleashed is how people are able to react and dodge to upcoming obstacles. And it is a reason why I don't like it when people say the boost formula has to get rid of 2D entirely. People forget that in Unleashed especially with the 2.5D camera angles that there is a sense of satisfaction of Sonic going through 2D sections because those sections especially in Unleashed actually felt like obstacle courses with how Sonic rail grinds, flips, and carefully jumps throughout the whole section.
Doesn't require 3D, doesn't even require being rendered. That's the same gameplay as a million Tiger digital games ripping off Missile Command, the same gameplay as BONUS games in Lion King for the SNES catching bugs. Bonus game in SONIC in his second outing. That's why The End fight makes so much sense.
Yea, but Unleashed actually had the parkour esque mobility moves like the drift and slide, that warranted having those intense obstacle courses. Later on, especially with the wisps, they lost the momentum with too many things that just stop you in place.
For me, boost just doesn't work in 2D without a 2.5D aimed forward camera angle because it doesn't allow the player to see what's up ahead quick enough.
I don't think 2d being in the boost stages is the problem the problem is the imbalance of 3d and 2d the boost stages in unleashed and generations had a great balance of 3d and 2d.
Colors and forces on the other hand.
Unleashed is a well baked cake.
Meanwhile forces is basically a sad pathetic cake thats burnt... yet frosted to look good
After Unleashed and Generations, that's when the boost formula started to fall off. Those 2 games were PEAK with the boost formula, especially the Rush series. But it does take a lot of development time, and it's good that they are finally moving into the new Open Zone formula. All they need to do is keep listening to feedback and incorporate proper changes to it.
I'm not going to lie to you the open zone formula is probably going to take double the manpower to make as polished as generations and unleashed while still having all the content that Sonic frontier has.
We have reached the pinnacle of the Sonic level development time issue.
@@banjonkashootiefortheps4403 Sega really needs to consider hiring New people to work on the next open zone project or other wise we will have to wait another five years or so for the game to be finished
@@mohabalserafe3795 they are currently hireing more ppl to work on the next main game
@@sethisevilone02 Well, hopefully they know what they are doing.
Same here I stopped liking the boost system after generations I feel like they should go back to the spin dash momentum formula in the next game and turn the boost formula into a racing game or something
the magnet dash is now called the homing dash according to sonic team since they mentioned it directly (and also showed off how to do it) in a speed strats video
Sonic franchise has always been suffering from "first game syndrome".
Explation:
If there's anything I could conclude by looking at the history of the sonic franchise, it's that the biggest problem with sega and sonic team is that they always try to change the gameplay formula from game to game, there's always some kind of gimick, and when the gimick doesn't work instead of executing it better, they judge that the concept itself is flawed, the highest points of the franchise are when it tries instead to change the gameplay from game to game, it tries to improve the same formula in the next game, sonic 2 is one of the most acclaimed games in the franchise for being the improvement of an already established formula, sonic generations is acclaimed for being the improvement of an already established formula, if there is a problem with the franchise it is that games always suffer from "first game" syndrome".
Tbh i dont really mind the sonic games changing gameplay style as long as its still in the sonic esque formula, one of the main reasons for an example mario oddysey got so much love is bc nintendo tried to do something new with mario, instead of just doing the same thing they been doing with 3D mario, the whole gameplay thing can be a double edged sword, but it keeps things fresh
@@Banana807 but every 3D Mario game is different, don't know what you are talking about
The boost formula was a breath of fresh air from the adventure formula until forces made it “boost to win”. But I will agree Adventure formula is better for exploring Sonic’s world. And you use the boost in different ways in cyberspace to navigate through the levels easier and get S ranks.
W
Even though the Boost got really nerfed in Cyberspace, I agree with what you said
Forces?? You mean colors?
@@mr.mcklockwork3828 forces is not better better than colors boost so your already wrong. And plus you had to do a good bit of platforming in between the boost and if you tried to do it on stages like planet wisp, you die. Forces levels are literally just straight aways where you can hold the boost for majority of the level and the platforming is mid cause it’s not hard for one and Sonic’s jumps sucks in that game. Then they have boost capsules every where so that you your boost meter doesn’t run out and the levels are too short and some are kinda boring.
@@mr.mcklockwork3828 You barely boost in colors, Play games before you criticize them 😑
Unleashed is definitely the best use of Boost. Sure, the drift is a bit weird, but all three criteria are checked to a T.
Edit: Unleashed drift is better. No cap.
I think Generations perfected the boost formula since it combines the design philosophies of both Unleashed (reflex focused level design) and Colors (platform/exploration focused) and creates a great 3D platformer.
@@andarilho_31 only issue is the ranking system... it's boring.
@@andarilho_31 but otherwise, I agree.
@@andarilho_31 I’d say it overuses Slower Paced 2D Platforming which the Controls don’t mesh with as well as those in Colors
I totally agree with you but, I never understood why people hated the drift so much in Unleashed. It's the one mechanic that I wish they would bring back mainly because it felt like a Platformers version of a parry system. Once you learn the timing, it felt like and personally still feels like the best mechanic in the game. Hell I'll take it over whatever God forsaken bastardization they put in Sonic Frontiers. I actually feel like a lot of the cornering issues in Frontiers with benefit from having the drift ( or just you know maxing out the settings like you can for the open Zone instead of setting everything to neutral)
What I like about unleashed is that it is treated almost like a racing game with the way the levels are designed, it feels like the whole point is to know the area and how to get around it to go as fast and precise as possible
Frontier's Gameplay is like a Return to the Adventure Style formula, while the Cyberspace Levels is an Afterthought.
even though it's technically not an afterthought and has always been there
"sonic CD is peak fiction"
So true
Another thing they need to bring back is the scoring system from Sonic Adventure 2. It was hands down the best ranking system in the series, and I cannot fathom why they dropped it. It complemented the level design by awarding score for succeeding at small skill-based maneuvers scattered throughout the level like timing a jump off trick ramps, chaining homing attacks and other actions, quickly defeating the hidden golden GUN Beetle, and jumping through rainbow rings (added in Sonic Heroes). It also rewarded you for performing well during level-specific spectacle set pieces like reaching the top of the rocket in Metal Harbor. It gave the stages so much identity and replay value, learning the hidden ways to get additional points in each stage to get the highest rank.
I hate adventure 2's ranking system i never get a s rank
@@RealSuperStar_SonicSpeed the max rank was A at that time...
I've been playing Sonic Colors DS recently, and I have to say: the boost in 2D is awesome in that game, the level design is different than the one in Sonic Rush, which was already a great game, but I'm having a lot of fun memorizing the levels. I'm loving it!
EXCEPT FOR THE WATER THEMES. WHY DOES THE MUSIC HAVE THE SONIC CHRONICLES FILTER WHEN UNDERWATER? I HATE IT
I love Sonic Colors DS!
Colors DS is one of my favorite Sonic games and it’s sad that it gets overlooked
I actually really like cyberspace. It’s treated like a special stage and it supplements the open world well. Im fine with it focusing on platforming more as you can use your boost and the magnet dash to your advantage, and I think it’s better than colors. It’s not perfect, but it serves and purpose and is fairly fun.
That's not what's being discussed here. He's discussing how well it uses the boost formula.
@@xdan- yes and the person is giving their thoughts on why they think the opposite
@@kaosagamerreal No, he's discussing how good the stages are on their own, independently of the boost formula.
I really like that in Unleashed there are sections of the boosting levels that consist of falling debris that challenges your ability to maintain enough speed to make it thru it all unscathed and is only made easier to do if you have enough rings that increased your speed. This game had the most depth in Sonic's speed upgrades.
With what you said about 1-2, that’s why I like challenging myself with my own self-imposed S Ranks. Sky Rail takes 2:25 mins to S Rank but I’ve discovered 2 back to back rail shortcuts which in an optimal run, let me get ~1:14. I agree with you that the S Ranks should be harder.
In a weird way, I kinda like how inconsistent 3D Sonic is. It gives each game more of an identity.
The boost is very fun
@@UnoTheSmartGuy Yes, it is.
i was a bit concerned when i saw you upload this cause the boost is my favourite formula, but honestly, everything you said here is correct. doesnt matter what people think if frontiers is better than unleashed, matter of fact is that its unfaithful to the original boost
i miss unleashed boost :(
While I love the boost formula when done right
I would much rather have the Adventure formula with momentum physics
Agreed
Yeah same.
same
Yeah
They should just do a whole game that's boost sonic, no gimmick like werehog, wisps, classic, or 2D in general. And make it a side game not the mainline. Have like 30-40 levels full of everything you described.
See we want that however the problem is that the boost formula is actually really difficult to make and design since if u don’t care about getting an S rank it’s like around an hour or maybe a little bit more. Developers can spend hours for a small part of a level only for us to blitz through and they only have two paths, short levels or long levels which both can not work alone which is why they have a second gameplay style like werehog, wisps, 2d and open world.
@RandomSleepyBoi I think with today's technology it could be done easier, and now they've got more experience. Also I believe I saw that Sega increased the size of Sonic Team so there would be more staff working at it
@@kn6361 No. The new tech just means even more work since it needs to be bigger in HD. Sonic has always been difficult to make because he runs so fast. A small Sonic stage is bigger than typical Mario/etc stages. The multiple characters in the early games was already a way to pad out the game. Then with the boost formula, Sonic moves even faster. So they put in the side scrolling sections because they're quick and easy to make (you notice how blocky they always are?). The fact they don't need to put in extra friends only means Sonic's in game animations get more transitions and such in them. The only way they'd be able to make such bigger games is if they could stick with the same engine and other internal hardware for long enough to make one.
@@kn6361 hm I guess but still would be difficult and considering sonics budget now a day I don’t think that’s happening any time soon
The problem with Frontiers Cyber stages is, not that they reused level design, but said design just isn't built for how Sonic controls in there
Loving the mix of background footage and facecam, it adds effect to things you say when you use the facecam, loving the experimentation keep trying cool stuff!
Even though I adored Frontiers, I still would’ve preferred an Adventure-style game. Though at this point, I don’t expect them to go back anytime soon. The boost games have always been flawed gameplay-wise, even in the best games with its style, since it never quite feels like you have full control over Sonic. He controls closer to a race car more than anything else, which isn’t bad, but It’s inherently not as satisfying IMO, which is why I’ll always prefer playing the likes of the Adventure games, 3K and Mania over Rush, Unleashed or Generations, despite still enjoying those games a lot. Frontiers open-zone comes the closest to replicating this feeling with the boost formula for me, but there’s still some jank that needs to be worked out with the stiff jump, collision detection, stopping on a dime, and overall lack of momentum on the ground. Hopefully, with Frontiers 2, the team can work these quirks out so we can have the perfect middle ground between Adventure and boost.
(Side note, that wallpaper is the most accurate I’ve ever seen, Matt.)
didnt lizuka say that he wanted to make another sonic adventure game using frontiers as a base also frontiers seems like a odd combination between the adventure formula and the boost formula
Ya, Sonic fits more in a playstyle that gives u freedom over him.
Till this day I still can't understand why you don't like Sonic Heroes but everything asside we can all agree that the boost formula is
heavily Overused
Your analysis on Sonic Unleashed, Colors and Generations are completely spot on with my thoughts. I always thought Generations felt significantly easier than the others. I got S rank on every level on my first try. Very well made video
as someone who has wanted a real unleashed PC port for ages now, frontiers kinda felt like a "we have unleashed PC port at home" especially with its reused levels. i really enjoyed this video, a lot of things that i'd been feeling about the series and its downfall post-Generations was really put into words here. at least magnet dash is super fun to play with
Not matt putting full effort into his videos i love videos like this please keep this up, i don’t care how long it takes to make them, i love these videos
There is ONE thing that I think Sonic Rush does way better than Unleashed, and that is meter management. In Rush, you are not handed the boost. You have to put legitimate effort into getting boost meter and there are ways to maximize the amount you have through clever use of it. There are even obstacles specifically designed to make new players waste their boost. It adds a cool layer of depth to the gameplay.
Unleashed HANDS you the boost completely. There is no skill to managing it. Just boost through the boosting sections and don't boost through the platforming sections. Your meter will pretty much always be full. This means Unleashed and all the other 3D boost titles don't have the same depth that Rush does, so they feel more simplified and automated.
To be clear, I still think games like Unleashed and Generations are awesome, and they don't need meter management to be great, but I do wish they had the same amount of depth that Rush has.
This is very insightful! I hope to see a more modest and challenging gage return
Honestly, that's another point in favor of Unwiished for me. In that game, sure, you are still handed the boost for free, but the thing is that you are rarely given enough boost to keep boosting for the entire way and one will have to manage where to best use it. Actually, Unleashed is especially rediculous with lack of boost-management because one can actually level up the boost meter despite it already being a bit too long. With max level, one will literally never run out, even boosting for the entire stage.
I personally feel like frontiers isn't a boost formula game, it just features boost, especially since they were experimenting with boost and spindash co-existing.
Cyberspace would’ve definitely benefited from keeping Sonics controls in the open zone and maybe always having him in the “powered up” state
I bet you this was the meeting to make lost world:
Guy 1: So, people loved Generations, which was our only modern game with classic sonic in it. So, I think it’s obvious that they loved classic sonic
Guy 2: So we’re doing a Modern and Classic game again
Guy 1: No- Actually, we’ll do that next game
Guy 2: Doesnt that game already have a gimmi-
Guy 1: What I’m saying is that we’re changing his gameplay!
Guy 3: Again?
Guy 1: Ofc!
More like "Yeah, we are tired of the boost after having done 4 of those games in a row. Surely we can make one singular game to break our monotony."
And then absolute hell breaks loose and causes Sega to decide to assassinate Forces to get rid of both the Boost and direct LW-influence at the same time.
I really feel like the boost was a good idea but I feel like for frontiers 2 they should ditch the boost and replace it with the spin dash
It would have to be spammable in order to be fun to use in an open zone or else it could be redundant and tiring to constantly try and make it work to speed you up. This is why the boost and especially super boost is better in an open zone formula since it functions like a run button instead of something you need to spam in order to go fast.
I genuinely think sticking with having both the drop dash and boost is a genius idea cuz it helps for much better flow and speed management.
@@banjonkashootiefortheps4403 yeah ut make it so the boost doesn't have you go max speed. it should definitly speed you up but you should be able to make you go light speed if you can do it right
Or just create two different zones for a location. Speed Zones and Adventure Zones. It all depends on how Boost Formula is handled
Those who say the Speed Boost should be ditched entirely are just toxic Sonic fans.
@@lord_bobanewname4069 The normal boost is slower than the drop dash which means this argument is invalidated because the whole reason the blue boost was created was to incentivize getting rings and holding on to them, which means is that the whole "Sonic needs to gain speed" argument kind of old news.
"Frontiers 2" needs to be a genuine improvement on what already works while still introducing new elements that organically build upon the core foundation while still standing on its own merits (just like Sonic 2).
I'm still kinda iffy with the nostalgia crutch tho.
More Sonic fans need to realize that "punishing level design" should never be used as a con, as long as it's executed correctly. Sonic Rush is a 10/10.
In my opinion, Rush is very far from a 10/10 game because of the cheap, trial-and-error nature of its level design and also odd obstacle placements in terms of spikes, bottomless pits, enemies and crushing blocks. Also, I would argue that punishing level design can be used as a con whether it's executed "correctly" or not, since certain people will still possibly find the level design cheaply made for the sake of artificial difficulty. Not everybody's going to tolerate level design like that.
@@BrokenAce1295 No such thing as a game that "everybody" tolerates. But the fact of the matter is there is clearly a demand for this kind of level design as console gaming was built around it from the start. Not everyone has to like it, but there's a reason why painfully tough games like Getting Over It, Hollow Knight, & Mega Man continue to exist.
Man you gotta keep this good work up! I love your reviews and they fill me with enjoyment. And your in the team Encore discord? I never knew that.
I just saw your monitors, and what it says on them is making me super overjoyed. Seriously, Sonic CD is such a great game. I really do like you as a UA-camr, and even as a person. I just haven't been able to consistently comment due to a multitude of reasons I don't want to get into right now. Anyways, I've always liked the Boost and I hope it can be made better if it's going to be the lasting formula for Sonic. 😄😁
100% Sonic CD is PEAK SONIC!
@@dez-m Indeed! Sonic CD is such a great game like I said before! :)
I was dead set on being dissatisfied with Frontiers because the boost. They managed to make it work well here. I do think it can be evolved more, if they can incorporate more physics here it would be great. I’d love another title where the zone can be ‘broken’. Where’s it not just a go fast until you can’t and where control and momentum is paired together with boost going fast. Frontiers is by far the best controlled 3D Sonic team title in an open space. I do think the traditional levels here are..just not quite there but like the video says replay ability for these zones are in its favor.
Nice analysis of the history of boost formula Sonic. Honestly wasn't into 3d Sonic games for a long time. Then Unleashed came around. I couldn't have told you why I liked it so much, but you really helped nail it down. The day side of that game was truly fantastic. Night wasn't bad either, it was just... a completely different game, heh.
That said, you should give Spark the Electric Jester series a look. Heavily inspired by Sonic, and does both 2d and 3d quite well in my book. Or at the very least you're missing out if you don't try out the most recent 3rd game. Would love to hear you thoughts on em, as someone who's clearly got both a lot of experience with sonic games, and is good at breaking down the elements that really work, and those that fall flat.
Not sure the magnet dash is a glitch, they used it in a sonic speed strats video
Great video and hit a lot of key points right on the nose, one thing I wish the formula took was 100% 3D boost...no 2D what's so ever. And it sucks because only fan games have done this and did it very well Sonic Adventure Package and Sonic Omens. The 2D has gotten so stale even in the open zone Frontiers.
I really do just want the generations and unleashed boost style back
I feel like Cyberspace can be somewhat forgiven because those levels are entirely optional bonus stages that are just there as a fun little side activity. They feel like obstacle courses more than proper stages because that's exactly what they are. They're obstacle courses. However, I generally agree with the points mentioned about them in the video. In particular, they contribute to the overall "Almost but not quite there" feeling that Frontiers gives overall. It's definitely reaching up from the abyss the franchise was brought down to by Frontiers, but it's not quite pulled itself back up into greatness yet. It's still just "good".
I think the best way to do Boost in 3D is like a combination of Generations and Unleashed. For the main campaign, have the level design and controls be more like Generations, but use a ranking system more like Unleashed. However, include optional bonus missions that really ramp up that difficulty. I feel the need to stress: OPTIONAL bonus missions. I would rather have a short game with a lot of replay value than a game with artificial length that overstays it's welcome because it forces you to do all the things. Also, please actually include the quick step and drift properly, and not context exclusive. Colors on the Wii had the excuse of there not being enough buttons and so they had to compromise. We're in the 2020's now. That's not an issue, and Generations absolutely nailed it a decade ago.
I don't necessarily want them to get rid of the Open Zone gameplay from Frontiers however, so here's my idea for if that stays in: The main gameplay consists of Open Zone gameplay. You can unlock two different types of more linear boost stages, all of which are optional: The first have more Generations type level design. Slightly tricky, but not too hard. Unleashed ranking system. The second can only be unlocked after beating whatever the final boss is, and provide much more of a brutal challenge. For these, I would give them a Generations type ranking system, except it's A rank you're practically guaranteed to get. To get those S ranks, you have to really start using those pro speedrun strats and secure those clench clear times. These would function as the ultimate challenge for experienced players, and would be where most of the replay value is for these types of stages. I'd say there should be a good reward for clearing all of these with S ranks, but it should also be able to be obtained through a separate method in game for those who don't prefer the boost levels.
Another thing I think is crucial at this point: We are sick and tired of the reused level tropes. Green Hill, Chemical Plant, and Sky Sanctuary are getting really old at this point. We need more level variety, and we need more original level tropes. Let these games stand on their own two feet instead of constantly reminding us of the old days. Green Hill Zone isn't nostalgic if you keep seeing it in every game. It's just old and overused. Be more like the Advance games, Rush, or even Colors and lean more into originality. It will have more appeal that way, and show a confidence in the game having it's own identity without needing to lean on older games that did well.
Great video! You pretty much perfectly represented the evolution of boost and how Rush is still peak 👌lol
Gotta agree with just about everything you said here. Your point also holds more water with me because you understand and talk about the appeal of the magdash. I would just say I like cyberspace a lot, but it is in large part because of the magdash, and without it, cyberspace would be inferior. There are a couple more interesting subtleties to cyberspace than just that, but everything in the game would benefit immensely from having ball momentum. I think one of the ways to solve the moveset is to just have classic momentum only in ball form and be able to roll (without dashing like in adventure) instantly anywhere at your current momentum. I would also include the advance/rush trick system where they are specialized air maneuvers, but I would keep it where boost is not an attack/ invincible.
You said banger like 5 times in a row... bruh.
Subbed
I just think the boost formula like many have said, is just too shallow and unsustainable, I think even Frontiers adding combat and open zone play isn’t enough, we need to try and recreate the adventure 1 feel whilst doing something new that gives us momentum but still fun level design that can be approached open or linear
Exactly, the current iteration of the Open Zone Platforming IS NOT sustainable. In Frontiers alone they were already running out of unique and fun little obstacles Courses by the end of Rhea. They need to make Sonic’s Movement itself fun by reintroducing momentum, that and having more Open Zone Platforming that isn’t 80% Automation and Homing attack Chains. The only reason frontiers got away with the automation was because you constantly went in and out so it never felt like the game was taking control away for long periods of time. They’re literally gonna run into the Same Problem as in Forces where the Gameplay gets Stale because they ran out of interesting Boost Level Design ideas.
@@welp65 it would make Sonic’s Movement itself So much more Fun and add a Whole other layer of Depth to the Gameplay. Just look up Videos on the Momentum Mod for Sonic Frontiers.
@@Terminal_Apotos hi do not talk to him he is classic and adventure momentum hater and only loves boost unleashed and keep talkin about spam-dash
i myself love classic and adventure momentum i hope next game do it
@@Terminal_Apotos You can literally add more momentum retaining with boosting and give it slope physics and acceleration lol on top of it having an airdash and the now magnet dash thing. Spindash is outdated and archaic. Boost can do everything spindash did but better and offer far more flexibility. Spindashing is rigid and stiff while boost is flexible and expendable.
@@Terminal_Apotos adding momentum to an open world design like frontiers would not be enough, frontiers open world design is designed with the boost in mind, if you give sonic momentum remove boost and give him a spin dash then it wouldnt work, most of the time you would have to be spamming the spin dash bc getting momentum by just running would be almost non existent
I'm glad someone put my reason of liking the boost formula into words! To me, the great Boost formula games aren't too dissimilar to rhythm games. Easy to beat each stage but getting an S rank or a good time requires a lot of memorization and good reactions which is very satisfying once gotten right. I hope one day we get games with the quality of Generations and the games before it some time in the future (in terms of boost gameplay). Awesome video!
Great video!! You perfectly represented the evolution of the boost feature in Sonic the Hedgehog but I do not agree with any of your opinions on the boost (execpt Generations, Unleashed and even Colors) but I hope that in the next Sonic game that there will be no boost formula, just the open zone of Sonic Frontiers improved, but I am glad that Sonic Team is sticking to the open-Zone formula in Future titles and improving on it but anyways I feel like that Sonic Team needs to ditch the boost and replace it with the spindash and bring back the Jump Dash too since I want Sonic Frontiers 2 to have the Adventure gameplay controls and some combat controls from Frontiers.
For me, controls are a huge part of why I love the boost games. Boost Sonic has a wide variety of tools to apply to each situation, and even the niche moves like the stomp and slide had some cool uses. The game should not force the player to approach the level in a certain way by limiting their options, but Forces, Frontiers and Colors Wii spit in the face of that. Colors Wii only lets you quickstep or drift in designated areas, and Forces + Frontiers straight up removed Sonic's ability to drift, replacing it with the autoturn mechanic that breaks if you try to boost.
Amazing video Happy New Year!!!
Edit: Love your content!! Keep it up :)
If Sonic Forces was the first ever 3D boost game, people could see the potential of the formula in future boost games however we know Sonic Team can do better since we’ve SEEN them do better with Unleashed, Colours and Generations..
I agree with most of this video except the part where you say some of the levels in sonic frontiers has too much platforming because sonic is and always has been a platforming game
Edit: also you can customize the turning speed and everything whit sonic frontiers
Actually getting an s rank in Gens isn't as simple as not dying
Can't agree with your take on Sonic Frontiers, honestly. It's true that Sonic doesn't controls like Unleashed nor Generations, but I think that's not a bad thing. If anything, he should control just like he does in the open zones. The way Sonic interacts with the new level design since he have different controls (specially now that the boost don't just destroy everything in our way) makes the old levels feel familiar enough yet still a new fun challenge. It's a lot more like an obstacle course fast platformer than the speedrun simulator Unleashed was.
I think comparing Frontiers Cyberspace to a 100% boost game is just as disingenuous as people who complained about the boost formula being "boost to win".
On a side note, the drift in Unleashed felt really slippery and the controls also don't feel nearly as good as Generations controls. The level design can be really terrible (Holoska day) with a lot of trial and error, which is not a good thing for a platformer. There are definetely some harder stages in Unleashed that are way more fair and don't rely on cheap kills (Empire City, for example. But some others, like Holoska, were straight up garbage.
Why does everyone seem to forget that the boost style started with Advance 2....
The Sonic Generations S Ranks are stupid easy, sure, but the doppleganger races' S Ranks make up for that. They are super fun to do because they require a lot of experimentation and mastery of the level design, almost on par for difficulty with some of Unleashed's levels.
I would definitely not call Sonic Frontiers a boost formula game, especially since it’s now been confirmed that the Boost Stages were just to fill in the variety quota in Cyberspace, and that it’ll likely be something completely different and original next game, so yeah, the days of boost game days are basically behind us
To me the reason why Sega plays so much with their formulas, boost or otherwise, is because the fandom is large and with a lot of variety. you got momentum fans, boost fans, adventure fans, and pleasing everyone becomes nigh impossible. you'll always have critics. also, it's funny to see every other new Sonic game ends making people look at Unleashed with more fondness and respect (and look, the Werehog stages were cool)
This logic makes sense. But they wouldnt have so many people to please if they just stuck with 1 style.
You don't see Mario fans pining for anything because his games have stayed consistent
@@mr.mcklockwork3828 and that's precisely why I like Sonic more. You play one Mario game, you played all of them. Granted there's also the 3D model, but they're all iterations of Super Mario 64, which isn't particularly bad, just not as interesting to me
Hey Matt! How would you rate cyberspace today?
Cyberspace was something interesting, because it had it's own physics and controls separated from the open zone controls.
In the open zone you can turn Sonic where ever you want and he won't go against you the controls are nearly at it's peak.
Cyberspace they decide to make the turning a little harder, sure the controls are nearly like the open zone but they're different by a small amount.
I like that too. But yeah, unfortunately, cyberspace levels are short and not as challenging as Generations or Unleashed. But I love the physics so much . Maybe it's because there's more control and Sonic is closer to what Adventure was, so I like that, and Sonic Team is on the right path
@@zenar30 Definitely the right path, I have no idea what is managing down there but if they can keep this up and learn from their mistakes they can surpass Frontiers and possibly other favourite titles.
I can hardly hear the music but overall a great video!
To be fair, there is a huge incentive to go fast in Generations, at least in my opinion. And that incentive is...seeing a little green number telling me how much time I saved with each playthrough!
Also, there's a BIG incentive to speedrun Sonic Forces levels, too!
*So you can play the game quicker and get it over with.*
I mean, really...who wants to sit through a game filled with straight line levels?
Personally I love the boost formula in Sonic Frontiers - but i think comparing it wit "classic" boost games kind of misses the point. To me, Sonic Frontiers has a new take on boost formula - with slower Sonic and more platforming. In that regard it's similiar to colors, except colors was mostly about exploration. It's not perfect, but it somehow sticks with me really well, maybe even being my favourite one. My favourite thing has to be (hot take!) the controls. The ground controls are allright, but the air control is amazing! Because air boost gives you height, I find myself doing "jump - air boost - double jump" combo all the time for this "triple jump", and it is really fun to play levels with it. My only problem is that when you use you action in the air, it gets locked and you have to walk on the ground to use it again - for example if I stomp into a spring, I can't stomp again - i havce to land normally. But other than this little inconvinience, I am a big fan, and I hope they will continue to develop this style in the future.
And of course the music is a perfect 10/10
I think the issue is Sega/Sonic Team are afraid to make a challenging levels and ranks again because of complaints. I honestly think 1-2 in Frontiers was a test as it was the only stage that had an insane S-Rank.
Whew that one was tough and I had to use advanced boost techniques to skip some enemy sections sheesh.
Another thing to level design there needs to be multiple routes to chose from to add more to the replay ability and to find which route you prefer like one that’s relatively safer then the other paths but may cost some time and vice versa
Quick question you ever play sparks the electric jester ?
Boost formula is my bane, it introduced my favourite Sonic characters (Blaze and Chip) while also reinventing what it means to "gotta go fast" yet it's definitely overstayed its welcome on top of the fact for whatever reason Sega scrapped what they had going in Generations for Lost World and then did a purposely poor job at imitating Generations with Forces.
I honestly don't care what gameplay future Sonic games have, I just want to climb, glide and explore a 2.5 or 3D environment in a mainline title as Knuckles again (After well over a decade, I highly doubt I'm asking for too much. Same for Tails tbh).
If they do bring it back a better by with a better camera 💀
I'm with you, man, I never really even liked the boost gameplay, and the tradeoff for it was losing other playable characters. I hope with Frontiers' DLC, this starts a trend of Tails & Knuckles being regularly playable again...cuz I kinda like all of Sonic's friends way more than Sonic himself ^^;;;
@@2bitbyte That's why we got so many playable characters in the few non-boost games of the time and why Blaze was yeeted out of Colors DS. And why Classic Sonic is allowed to exist who despite OP-spindash doesn't really play like the boost.
@@lpfan4491 Classic Sonic is still Sonic, the Boom games sucked, and I have no clue what your point about Colors DS is. I guess we did have Mania but too much of it was rehashed levels imo...
@@2bitbyte The thing is, the boost is not the reason why the series largely went Sonic-only in non-mania games, to the point where the boost game that would be expected to have a second playable character(because it's effectively the third rush-game) doesn't. Boom is a big exception, but that was outsourced to be a completely seperate thing, so the same principles barely apply.
From the usage of Boost in SF, I feel they actually perfected it so as a common ground for Bbost fans (me mostly) and Adventure fans.
We know why they change the formula after each game: Money. They've been very clear on why they change the formula each game.
Remember when they talked about Lost World? They said they aimed that game towards Mario fans, IE MONEY.
As far as I'm concerned, the boost formula effectively turns sonic into a different kind of gaming experience. Not a platformer, but a racing game. No cap, the 3d sonic gameplay has more in common with need for speed than classic sonic
Boost may make Sonic fast. But lets be honest. Big is obviously the fastest in the sonic universe :)
I loved generations the boost formula because i grew up on it but I would like more stages in generations and also a ranking system like frontiers 1-2 where it’s really tight and challenging to get S ranks
Also boost should be able to plow through enemies and certain obstacles. Frontiers be like nope you gotta kick or punch.
Sonic Unleashed does not have good controls for the boost gameplay… Sonic literally is so slippery that drifting is completely useless unless you don’t boost and even then it rarely happens.
On top of that, Sonic is very stiff and tank-like to control when platforming. Then for him to be too fast and slippery as well, it's some of the weirdest controls.
In Frontiers' defence, did you set turning speed to max?
So fun fact of the Magnet Dash, it originated in an indie game called Spark the Electric Jester 2, where by cancelling the homing attack with an air dash, you kept the momentum of the homing attack. It was originally a glitch in that game, and was patched in Spark the Electric Jester 3 to be available, but more accessible and less overpowered, with "Magnet Dash" being the official term for the mechanic (as seen on some in-game textures). I do find it funny that SEGA has adopted this mechanic in a similar manner to the indie game's developer (albeit under a different name), and am hopeful that it becomes a staple mechanic in the future.
You are one of the most convincing Sonic fans, it was your knowledge of the franchise that let me know that Sonic Frontiers would be a good purchase.
Come to think of it. Everything you listed on what makes a good boost game is actually pretty relevant for the adventure style games too. Too bad the controls of those games didn't age too well but completing sa2 was my favorite experience in a sonic game.
"Sonic CD is peak fiction"
Hey matty, adventure or boost formula?
Frontiers has Cyberspace as the 'Boost-style gameplay' which it executed fairly well, but not as good as I expected it to be. But I really don't care about those crazy stages anymore since Open Zone formula works even more for Sonic cause' u actually get to run freely there, test ur max speed and it was the first step to anime lvl combat and boss fights in the franchise. It paved a new path for the team and with this formula, they can experiment literally everything which is good.
Sonic 06 was the first 3d boost game although boost was unlocked near the end
12:20 Ehhhh, you see this is were you are somewhat wrong. Because even though Sonic Generations does have a terrible ranking system, it most definitely is not the only thing that incentivizes replayability, If that was the case then forces would be more replayable.
In fact there is a way of playing Sonic levels that is far more replayable than trying to get an S rank and generations is by far the best game to do that, and that is time attacking.
Time attacking, unlike trying to get the S rank is completely reliant on you trying to beat the stage as fast as possible which is far more rewarding because there's so many different ways you can try to perfect your run when the formula for getting the S is a lot more linear and forgiving, when getting the best time on a level forces you to be flawless, and Sonic Generations level design which has the best balance between reacting to obstacles and multi-tiered paths with plenty of shortcuts makes for not only my favorite boost game but my favorite 3D Sonic game in general, it's just THAT PEAK 🤷.
Can't wait to see you do this with the adventure and classics on it games to see what improvements you would make with them like how frontier's try to improve the boost formula. And sorry if this is a lot to read 💀.
Shouldn't an S rank be something you can achieve by knowing a naturally competent way of speed running the level? Because most of the rankings in the boost titles make an S like the equivalent of like a B in SA2.
@@amandaslough125 okay but that's the thing, The only reason why boost games have a easier ranking system then essay to is because Sonic is faster. So naturally instead of doing the bullshit task list of "doing a homing attack chain!" and... Get this amount of rings MINIMUM. All of this score-based nonsense that SA-2s S ranks are so focused on besides the hunting stages which have the most fun s ranks sometimes. So instead of speeding through these linear ass levels that have barely as much depth as a colors level, and trying to get your best time, SA twos ranking system actively discourages focusing on time and instead expects you to gain points when that's so.....not 3D Sonic.
Finally the first time i heard someone mention how slow sonic is in frontiers
Seriosly frontiers
You 've got to be kidding me
I cant wait for Sonic games to be like Frontiers! Also Happy Late New Year!
I think the Cyberspace levels are pretty good. The thing is that they are pretty short compared to Generations/Colors/Unleashed but that's because there's lot of them and many of them do have quite a lot of alternate pathways to take. And some are also kinda tough.
I think the boost could also benefit from having pin ball physics and parkour to allow for more verticality to the levels. Like imagine boosting while rolling down a slope and catapulting high into the level. I think sonic team needs to approach the boost in a similar way to how platinum approaches combat in DMC with tons of upgrades to help get better ranks and punish the player for approaching levels in the same way, encourage experimentation and taking risks.
That idea does technically exist in the player movement in every boost game, aside from where the speed is capped randomly (Forces). It's just never really used.
I believe that Sonic Generations was where the boost formula peaked for me. Great level design, good controls, and just overall fun factor. If they just replicated what worked in Sonic Generations and ironed out all the kinks like making the ranking system more challenging, and obviously fresh, new level design, then I think that the boost formula could be improved for future games.
One thing you forgot about Sonic Generations were the missions. Vanilla levels, yeah their ranking was way too generous but somehow the missions actually had a surprisingly decent ranking system by encouraging you to finish the mission as fast as possible to get that sweet S-Rank. I recommend for Generations you install the "Score Generations" mod as that adjusts the ranking.
Sonic needs to comeback to the high budget formula
its about time someone says that sonic unleashed is their favorite. Honestly overlooked. I also missed how big the maps were on unleashed. The amount of alternate options and freedom when running!
Sonic Generations with the Score Generations mod makes getting an S Rank in the levels really challenging and requires you to even get a mod that makes Red Rings appear even after being picked up when replaying the level.
It's hard to even get an *A* Rank at times with default settings the mod comes with :o
I’ll pass and just use Unleashed difficulty for the S ranks and DLC
While time criteria would have to be changed I think Unleashed physics would make cyberspace great (I also love how they did the recharging boost in frontiers though)
Fair vid. Although I disagree with your numbered ratings of control, levels and the ranking systems for the games, I do understand and respect them. Personally the only game I’d say gets level design kind of right is Colors and I say kind of because the 3D sections suck. There’s enough stuff to interact with that feels right for any kind of player which is something I hardly felt with the others (Gens had impressive scope but felt restrictive with the limited amount of viable paths there were for speedrunning; in other words it felt unbalanced). Controls are whatever. I’d say they all control like trash when not boosting but it’s not that big of a deal (stomping makes them tolerable when platforming). Ranking systems goes for Colors and Frontiers (at least the idea of it). Getting the S ranks for Unleashed isn’t very interesting to me since it requires memorization (which isn’t hard for how simplistic they are) and timing (which isn’t perfect either since any upcoming obstacle can be dodged easily by pausing the screen before they come up). You can disagree with that but it’s my opinion that getting S ranks in that game is boring. I agree that Generations is awful at this too but I would say the reason for that is because it is boost to win? Like yeah sure there’s a bit more going on than that but your footage of its ranking system not working out well was pretty clear to me that you weren’t doing much with your controller. You can technically just power through most of the stages without interacting with them much in a way that plays itself. I suppose the big thing that turns me off with these games is its level design since I don’t think either of them have reached their full potential. Rush could’ve been fine at this but had problems that held it back from being great to me (fighting areas, scripted set pieces, long roads where nothing happens, etc.). I’d say the best way to make a good boost game IS to make it challenging; why is a ranking system in them in the first place? Again fair vid with an interesting viewpoint but not one I personally share.
As someone who's grown to like CS(even more than SA1-2 speed stages). I COMPLETELY AGREE. CS to me was the answer I was lookin for to still use the boost while the open zone gave more of the freedom ppl wanted for 3D Sonic games(basically like the mach speed sections of 06). Then ofc they do the stupid thing & completely change how it works. I wish the next game at least controls like Colors(I love that 1) for the CS equivalent.
Hear me out: I don’t think Heroes was actually a huge departure from the Adventure formula. They wanted to create something like Adventure where you can use any of the three main characters from most of the games to play each of the levels in a 3D space. It still controls a lot like Adventure. Of course, then the logical conclusion on how to make that work at all without the gimmicky play styles they previously shoved into Tails and Knuckles was to have you use all three at once and switch on the fly. Then they had to design the stages to accommodate this and… we ended up with a game that’s a bunch of floating platforms and rails.
"uH ACCultty thE BoOst WaS firsT in SoNic AdVance 2"
I could argue that everything you said could also be applied to momentum based physics and momentum based physics it also requires you to know the level Leo to have great reaction time and I’d say the skill ceiling is even higher because you need to know how to utilize momentum to gain max speed boost games have the same formula the momentum ones have except you can hit max speed with just a push of a button
I feel that the boost games have much more focus on speed than momentum ones. Whenever I play Classic or SA, reacting to the level never feels as hard as for boosting games. In momentum based, usually the stage will control how fast you are because of how it let's you get acess to your max speed, in boost however this decision is up to the player. Since the stage no longer dictates when or where you can gain max speed, now the player have more ways to clear the stages faster and faster, thus increasing the skill celling.
I can see how momentun games, specially classic ones, needs you to memorize the stage to gain speed when you can, but I do believe that giving this decision to the player opens more windows to skill expression.
@@breno8119 but what other choice do you have besides boosting? It’s the same thing The level is built around boost as well in those longer cord doors you are clearly meant to boost down there and there is no such thing as reaction time and boost game you may be able to react to words directly in front of you but nine times out of 10 it requires knowing the level to be able to actually get to the level fastest
@@breno8119 I can agree that boost has a higher focus on speed but that’s literally because it’s just that a boosting game nine times out of 10 you’re not going to react to it coming up ahead you’re just going to remember to head by replaying 11 more and in both games the stage controls when you can go fast because in boost you can clearly tell when the stage once you to be used just like a momentum you can clearly tell when the stage once you to use your ball to gain speed in both games the level is built in a way to encourage you to do certain actions and I’d even go as far to say I think it’s harder to be good at momentum or go it’s a simple as knowing when to roll into a ball it’s a lot harder to control your momentum I know just the right timing to use your roll than it is to hold a button down and go left or right
The reason that frontiers feels clunky when you jump, and you have no momentum is because both frontiers and forces use an altered version of the lost world physics engine, which instead of having momentum it just pulls you to the nearest floor collision.
I genuinely think lost world could have been good (gameplay, not story) if instead of a run button they had a grab button, grab the ground for a super peal out, tighter corners (literally just drifting) and grab the walls to wall run, forcing you to still need speed to pull off maneuvers instead of awkwardly pushing you to top speed instantly. Which leads me to-
The reason I don't like the boost formula (except Unleashed wii) is it doesn't reward you for keeping speed, if you hit a wall you press X, or square, or A, or whatever equivalent and you magically, freely, hit top speed.
The reason I make an exception for unleashed wii is because it has chunks of boost for lack of a better word. E.g. you spend all of a chunk of your boost at once and if you mess up while using that portion, it's gone, used up. Rather than, "Oops, I messed up, but have literally any amount of boost left so let me just tap the boost button to get back to max running speed."
SONIC CD IS ABSOLUTELY PEAK FICTION!!! W
20:43 You’re actually correct on that assumption because a lot of the key staff that made Generations as good as it is left Sonic Team and went to work for Nintendo on Mario games(they helped make Odyssey, one of the best games in that franchise).
I just remember reading that somewhere so take it with a grain of salt, but I’m pretty sure it’s true. It gives a good reason for Forces to be as borked as it and why Frontiers fumbled a lot when it came to Cyberspace.
Two points:
1) Agreed 100% that Sonic Unleashed had the best boost mechanic. It's just so good.
2) I think that boosting in the open world is a good mechanic. Obviously, it doesn't have the 3 elements you mention in your video, because it's open world, and you're not actively avoiding obstacles. But it is a good showcase of Sonic's potential speed. It's pretty fun, actually.
I have no idea why the boosting mechanic is so slow in the cyberspace levels, though.