Steven Wilson on SHRED GUITAR
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Thoughts on guitar shredding from Porcupine Tree songwriter/producer.
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►Love your passion in the comments, but please keep it respectful. This is just Steven's opinion. And he's NOT saying: shredding is not music. He's saying: TO HIM shredding is not music. Big difference! He's only talking for 52 seconds, listen to what he actually says instead of projecting your own meaning onto it. And remember, just like you, Steven is entitled to have an opinion :)
Where can we listen to the whole?
I prefer good melodic structure over mindless shredding but every now and then you’ll find an artist that beautifully combines both the elements and the result is just phenomenal. Artists like Buckethead, Jason Becker etc.
& Tony MacAlpine: ua-cam.com/video/aMvqc25AQik/v-deo.html
"mindless" ?
Can you shred?
You can try polyphia it's melodic and shred at same time especially Thier last song
@@H4zarD1337 This. Polyphia is on another level when it comes to guitar composition and their shred is pretty melodic too
Good lyrics
Abstract messages
Messages
Good melodies
Authentic vibes
Personality
Attributes of true artists
Agree 💯
I have to disagree. Music is simply an emotion hidden within the sound. Anger is an emotion. When I listen to fucking solos in Slayer's songs for example, I feel like King's guitar carries my anger way beyond I could ever express it. I could of course go out and slit somebody's throat but thanks to guitar shredders I don't have to do that.
I have always loved Steven's music, but I've never been able to love him as a person. He's too eager to put down other musicians who don't think the same way he does. He's honestly super pretentious. If this video isn't enough evidence, look up all the shade he's thrown at Greta Van Fleet.
I feel the same, people such as Steven often don’t like things that aren’t similar to them.
It’s quite sad, really.
He’s definitely a snob and a music purist. What he said about Greta is pretty spot on though
Of course shredding for shredding's sake is not musical, but in actuality shredders have more tools in their belts and are able to express themselves in more ways.
Take Van Halen's solo on Beat It, one of the most iconic guitar solos in any style. Only a shredder could have accomplished something like that.
I dare anyone to honestly say Alex Skolnick's or Jeff Loomis' solos aren't musical...
Only two words.
SHAWN LANE
I personally think shredding is good when it's used sparingly and intelligently, in a part where the song's structure calls for it.
Yeah. Hence my appreciation for Synyster Gates' work. I am not a fan of these solo-guitar-as-main-voice arrangements in songs, like Steve Vai and alike. It's just off putting.
In my eyes i like it,but a few guys do it good and interesting,everyone else i just dont care ,they can spend 100 hours per month in their bedrooms
almost everything is good in the right context. Moderation is key too.
Steven has worked with guitarists who fit that description: Guthrie & Alex are certainly capable of shredding if the need arises, but within a wider musical context.
@@snackspositive Bro you probably listened to 3 Steve vai songs, go check out 'all about eve' or 'i know you're here'
Shred guitar and thrash-speed rhythm playing are not a form of communication. It is a form of impressionism. The impressions can be described as metaphorically mirroring elements of life that are: fast paced, chaotic, or even climactic. Examples would include motor sports, close combat, high velocity flight, or any aggressive emotion that has rapid shouting as a lyrical counterpart. The human experience is not always a slow paced stroll, and shred guitar satisfies these elements as a reflected form of impressionism.
I would also consider Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata movement III as shred piano, and it accurately captures all sorts of break-neck emotions for me from the tempest, to scrambling on horseback to warn of incoming doom as a cinematic montage. Heck, there are a few great metal-guitar renditions of that piece.
It is also a form of entertainment. Take, for instance, a theme and variations Caprice by N. Paganini. The theme is stated, but it is repeatedly reanimated with skillful explorations of the harmonic structure that it hasn't really communicated anything more than the simple statement of the theme. However, the theme is re-stated again and again with so many elaborate additions that it feels like a new theme each time, and we marvel at the ability of the live performer.
[edit] I do not intend to disagree harshly, but offer another point of view, because I have heard plenty of wanna-be guitarists who should NOT be "shredding". I understand and even sympathize with the sentiment of Steven Wilson.
really appreciate this comment for making good points and not resorting to insulting Steven's opinion or calling him a "boomer."
I would just say it's a different style of musical expression that's all, ultimately it doesn't matter whether you're playing fast or slow but what "music" is being expressed at the core
Well put!
Your comment is gold bruv. 🍻 Very insightful. And I agree with you, shredding serves that purpose of mirroring the chaos, the agression, the fast paced part of our lives. If it's considered music per se? Depends on how you view music. I love shredding personally. When it's done well and it fits properly with the structure of the song, it's amazing. But when it's overdone, it ruins all of the enjoyment.
I would just say fast is musical to me. Imagine the 3rd movement but at the pace of the 1st movement. Its a totally different song.
Allan Holdsworth, Guthrie Govan, Brett Garsed, Richard Hallebeek, Greg Howe, Ritchie Kotzen, Jason Becker, Marty Friedman are all great examples of guitar players who use their speed to evoke great phrasing in their playing.
Apparently those are athletes in his eyes lol
Funny because Guthrie Govan has played on Steven Wilson songs
But those mentioned have beautiful melodic lines, they know how to stop, they know how to breathe, they know how to balance the speed at the right time and make MUSIC. Completely different from the non-logic guitarist Shered Noisy. You did not understand.
Admittedly not my usual stomping ground but, Govan was the first really speedy player with feel and dynamics that I've heard. Holdsworth also and more recently Steve Hackett who I saw a few months ago. He is amazingly good at 72. Showed range I didn't know he had.
@@JV8901 they are pure sport. Zero music
The first time I realized Shreding can be emotional was while listening to Acid Rain by Liquid Tensión Experiment. It pumps my blood even now.
Amen to that!!!
Steven Wilson is a pretentious, closed-minded hack. Just because something is fast and technical doesn't mean it can't also have emotion or feel in it. Just because he personally can't hear it doesn't mean it's not there.
I'm sorry but yes it is music. Maybe it does nothing to you and that's fair enough, not all music touches everyone but you've not felt anger made music coming from a fast guitar solo, or the sheer fun and exhileration coming from old school metal or the sense of awe that complex solo pieces from prog bands can generate. The range of emotions from "shredding" is virtually limitless and it's a real shame it does nothing for you...
From what I’ve collected, it seems that some musicians believe emotion is just the blues or just a avant-garde or any other example. In other words, if an individual doesn’t resonate with a work of music they’ll often say it’s emotionless.
It’s why older generations typically don’t enjoy modern music as much as newer ones.
@@bolillo5013 I was born in 2005 and tbh I agree with him although it is highly effective when used sparingly and most importantly INTELLIGENTLY. it's totally not impressive enough to throw random scales or pentatonics etc. on the table just to show off. Even if the skill is highly appreciative
Yeah this guy in the video is ultra lame
The only people saying shredding is not music are the people that can’t shred.
As far as I’ve looked, that’s what I’ve found too.
But it doesn’t mean everyone who dislikes shred can’t themselves, it would be too generalizing to assume otherwise.
I should also mention that I love a lot of shredders.
Why would they try to do it if it sounds bad to them? Just as a form of masturbation? No, thanks.
of course it's music, he's just not feeling it. you either feel it or you don't.
Exactly, I’m alright with people having different opinions about music but don’t act like your right about everything, when it is such a subjective thing as what is good music.
@@bolillo5013 good thing steven wilson doesnt do that 🙂
The flaw in Steven’s point here is that music at ANY speed that lacks the qualities he lists tends to be subpar. There are plenty slowhand Clapton-ish solos that are terrible and boring. So don’t throw them all out, yeah?
There are plenty of shred solos that are exciting, raw with emotion, and intense. Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. (And let’s not forget, Steven had no use for the guitar, supposedly, 2 years ago, then puts out the guitar-laden new PT album. C’mon…)
I believe Steven limits himself in his own definition of shred guitar. There are just too many phenoms to name that are both shredders and melodic. What's funny is Steven has worked with many.
Tbh i'm a fan of his work but i gave up on his opinions a long time ago, it's incredible difficult for him not sound like a mayor douche every time he makes remarks like this, i think it's he lowkey likes the "drama" and then acts surprised when he's called about it
He's right though
Spot on mate, it's an easy "go to" cop out opinion that loads of people trot out for what reason I don't know. Just like people criticizing "emotionless" playing because they think the only emotion is sadness not anger or hate or all the others that can be described with music..
@@SanDimas234 "sadness not anger or hate or all the others that can be described with music.."
Or, god forbid, a positive one!
I feel like that's sort of the point though. When the communication of emotional dynamics is ceased and replaced with an accentless technical shredding solo, it sustains the last emotional point in the song without losing tempo or having abrupt stop. Often it also conveys a specific aesthetic, such as The Zenith Passage or Jason Richardson, who often use it in a way that brings to mind aliens, robots, and science fiction. Polyphia also manages to convey a lot of emotion and feeling through shredding, such as in Aviator, where the speed increase in moving to the shredding builds up a feeling of tension that makes the cathartic release of the melodic section right after feel so freeing and airborne. It can definitely be misused and does not belong in every song, but it is still a useful tool for musicians to affect the emotional communication of a song, not just a way to show off their virtuosity. Not to mention the countless shredders whose compositional chops (Buckethead, Jason Becker, Marty Friedman, Steve Vai, to name a few) make me seriously doubt that it is inherently an unemotional technique.
I agree with you more that Wilson on this one.
I don't think he is undermining "shredding" as whole, as a technique that can be utilized to great effect when called for. But rather as a style on its own pushed to its limits, and "the shredder" as a type of guitarist. There definitely is a strong tendency among many to pursue and worship technicality and instrumental proficiency as a goal of its own, for some perhaps even "the" goal. I feel Wilsons comment about music turning into an "olympic sport" definitely catches this dynamic. That being said, shredding is absolutely a viable and great tool, and can certainly be (and has been many times) employed with great effect to manipulate emotional expressiveness - the building up of tension and ensuing release you mention is a prime example.
👏👏👏👏
But nothing takes away the fact that they're relying primarily on that for their shows. Most of them do more of a show, a specific kind of show, rather than sharing musical ideas. It's showoff p.orn. I have listened to a couple of Buckethead shows and they were rather boring too. It's addressed to Joe Satriani widowed kind of people who don't seem willing to be fed anything else.
how he ever hired Guthrie Govan is beyond me...dude is shredder extraordinaire....and by far the best guitarist he's played with with best contributions in Regret #9 and Drive Home among others...hard to bash them when you have used them in the past to your benefit...
The point is that Guthrie plays for the song not for himself. Shredding for the sake of shredding is stupid. Its not how many notes but which notes. Besides Shredders play fast but lack dinamics and color in their sound, a music piece is not more complex just because It has more notes, in jazz harmony and rythm make a piece more difficult, and a good soloist shows his virtuosism by adding silences to his phrasing. Something Wilson most certainly adds to his compositions and expects his muscisians to follow.
Nos bastidores tem ele pedindo para n tocar rápido
That's not at all what i'm getting from this. He's just talking about the fact that there's this culture that's been built online through the years where guitar playing is more of a contest than actual music.
Yeah there's chops used in context and then there's a whole genre of metal where you can't remember one song vs another except that the songs are complicated and difficult to remember. I can't tell you how many meshuggah/djent inspired shred tracks I've heard with programmed drums (if you get popular then you might hire a real drummer to torture like Animals as Leaders) where I can't remember one song vs another and it's actually the whole point of the music to be difficult to decypher.
Guthrie can shred but his solos with Steven are super melodic
Why does this only apply to guitar? A player of any other instrument can rip a fast solo and people marvel but when a guitarist does it it's heavily criticised.
@@joeyondakeys yeah but are they though? Most jazz songs have a sort of hook/main part then the ensemble takes it in turns soloing whether it's sax, flute, keys bass etc.
He's talking to artists or artists who are also musicians, not mathematicians
@@spenserphoenix jazz noodling works kind of differently though. For sure, it is highly technical and somewhat often shows that off, but the melodic and harmonic content there differs from guitar solos (it is improvised, often explores more extended harmony, plays off of the ideas given in the main theme, etc). It's not like similar things can't happen with shreds, but a lot of guitar heroes in comparison put the technicality and speed before the musicality (this take is somewhat subjective ofc), repeating particular chord shapes, arpeggios, sweep picking patterns etc.
I think the comparison is partly valid, and Steven probably wouldn't like all jazz that goes for a similar noodling effect, but the fast solos in jazz also have a lot of differences to how many guitarists approach their shredding, I'd say.
I like some shredding-type playing, but for the most part really agree with Steven's point
@@santeri2790 yeah that's true but at the same time one could easily criticize jazz as just being fast random notes - which like shred guitar is a reductive view usually coming from someone who doesn't actually understand what's happening. I see what he means in reference to guitarists like Malmsteem or MAB where its albums upon albums of just shred but to say it's not music is such an arrogant take. I enjoy what I've heard Steve make but I could diminish his work to not being music by saying it sounds like a lot of ideas that are made up on the spot and put together. There's not really a hook or catchiness to his writing so therefore it's not real music, it's just someone recording an overly long jam.
I'd say my original point also applies to classical compositions as well. They typically have quite predictable note choices that follow scale shapes like shred guitar but I've never heard someone say Beethoven or Mozart have no feel and are/were just show offs.
@@santeri2790 You only say it because jazz is *seen* as more "smart" kind of music
Nah, hard disagree. Shredding, face-melting solos / riffs have given me more than my fair share of goosebumps, and have gut punched me right in the feels many-a-time. So have “slower-paced” solos / riffs too of course, 100%.
Every time I hear this argument (and from Wilson), I can’t help but feel a little sorry for the people who are not able to appreciate “shredding” as much as someone like myself. I don’t mean that in a condescending way either - it’s just a shame to close yourself off from *so much* good stuff, and straight up fun.
And then i would ask: why can it not be sporty? The main problem is not sports but rather arrogant attitudes of people who feel the need to put down non-shred content.
Guthrie Govan and Alex Hutchings played for him...they are super shredders..but they have also great feel...
I think shredding can evoke, but it's knowing when to change into top gear. Players like Guthrie Govan and Nick Johnstone combine very melodic, beautifully-phrased parts, with some crazy chops when the song needs it.
I respect Steven's position. But I can't help it, I like the work of some shred guitarists. Not because of shredding, more because of their compositional qualities, of which shredding is just a part. Jim Mateos, Marty Friedman, and others.
Marty Friedman makes it fun,and doesn't rely only on speed,hes a good melodic and song writer
I hear you Andrey. The guitarist from Caligula’s horse is a shredder but somehow his playing REALLY gives me The feelies! Maybe SW is talking about “out and out” shredders here? What about Guthrie? I’ll be honest he leaves me a bit cold 😖
I totally agree with Andrey
Just a sad perspective. No one would say that a chopin piece does not comunicate any emotion. Anger and fury are as valid in musical expression as sadness or grief/ love.
Chopin isnt a shredder. Apples to Oranges.
Chopin was not only a virtuoso but a great composer. Of course there are many fast paced pieces he wrote, but there are plenty that are even better, emotional and much slower.
Be it Chopin or Paganini it’s different from the stuff he’s talking about. I don’t think it’s a jab at metal guitar as a whole just on a certain subgenre/players
Chopin gaves you both things.. is the same way Govan Guthrie gives it on Drive Home solo.. a virtuosso can do both things without any problem.
I love Steven, he always talks about stuff shredders do, stuff that requires extreme discipline, stuff that make albums like Raven and HCE the masterpieces they are.
Or are you telling me what Guthrie, Minemann and Holzman did wasn't shred?
Music is Art, not science or math. There is no absolute definition of good music. It is subjective.
There is one: people like to listen to it...
@@stephanmarcouxdrums4877 well by that account you essentially agree with him. If the one rule of good music is that “people like to listen to it” that means all music is good music. With over 7 and a half billion people on this world, it’s pretty much guaranteed every song will have multiple people who like it. That all ties in with music being subjective, so essentially you have the same opinion with a different thought process.
When concepts like faults and weaknesses exist, there tends to be right answers.
This is just gatekeeping.
I thought it would be fun to learn how to shred, at least as an occasional flourish. But then I realised harps exist 😅😅 People were shredding in ancient greece on those :))
I clicked on your profile hoping to find a video of you shredding on a harp 😞
Seems like a petty closed minded argument.
Sometimes the music calls for a bit of shred, doesn't mean it can't convey emotional or that its mindless.
Yes there are people who just play like a robot with no feeling behind it but he's been coming across lately like guitar is almost a gimmick...
Some great classical musicians were also shredders in their own right..
Gary Moore, Eddie Van halan, Andy James, Travis Montgomery, Angel Vilvaldi, Phil Demmel, Bucket head Dan Donegan, Alexi Lahio, Goonzi and Steve from Bleed from within, etc, the list goes on and on...
That argument that shredding is like talking at "100mph" is silly.
As much as i love Porcupine Tree and his stuff, I could same the same thing but the opposite as his music can be slow, boring and lifeless at times.
He pretty fits into the "okay boomer" meme and the whole "Eric Clapton didn't need x, y & z..." *yawn*
He's kinda right. As much as I love shredders, few them are actually communicating haha. Randy Rhoads was good and buckethead is good. Their shredding has emotion..
exactly
Randy Rhoads' solos, underneath all the trills and frills, were very melodic. They were not mere "Hey look at me, I am playing fast!", and without them Ozzy's songs would not have sounded as good.
Or it could be that he does not understand the language? I just have a problem when personal preference is presented as fact. But to say it's not music because you don't like it? That's when you lose me. I absolutely abhor hip hop a la Kanye, Jay Z, etc. But to say it's not music just because I don't get it?
Just like anything else, shred is a stylistic element. It can work great in context, but if you neglect other aspects, it gets tedious and boring and devolves into musical wankery. And that is the point Steven is making here - shredding for shredding's sake is just not very interesting musically, as a listener and as someone who likes to dive into the structure of the music. But, just like every fad, it's gonna fade away, and what will remain will integrate as an element into the catalogue of musical elements and will be used to great effect once nobody is overdoing it anymore. It is human nature to be prone to over-emphasizing certain aspects of anything, and it is also human nature to not to dwell on those extremes for too long (and nowadays, with our 3 second attention span, this interval gets shorter and shorter).
So, I don't understand Steven as attacking shredders, but rather as making an observation that the over-emphasis on shredding by some players needs to be balanced out, at which point you will arrive at a point where it becomes useful and effective as a stylistic element again.
I totally agree, I love a melody full of blues and feel with good sound and exprssion. Winning a sports degree on Guitar for the Olympics I'll gladly leave to others, which doesn't mean I don't think technique and good tone is important.
I hate blues and think it sounds like shit. Therefore, its not music according to the working definition of this video
@@davidlewis5737 No use arguing about taste brother, however you can't say, Robben Ford or Larry Carlton are bad musicians, they're both rooted in the blues.
Both of you are on the same page!
David isn't saying blues is shit.
Steven Wilson is wrong
I’m starting the Anti Shred Squad, also knows as the A.S.S.
listen to dimebags solos and tell me u dont feel no emotion....
I agree with this - one person that comes to mind talent wise is the guitarist from avenged sevenfold. He can shred but he manages to make beautiful arrangements and not have it in every song. He does more with less and lends into the music without taking away from it. He’s extremely underrated usually due to the fact you see others shredding more but if you look more into him and the content out there you realise actually how talented he is. Has tones to die for too
Oh look another legend with a bad take. He's free not to like it, but "that's not music" is the kind of attitude that he can shove straight where the sun don't shine.
You're too reactive. Listen to what he's saying: shredding for the sake of going fast, with no phrasing, emotion, nothing communicated but a physical feat _isn't_ music. He's not putting down technical playing that is also musical.
@@M2Mil7er They’re still playing an instrument and have phrasing and a time signature of some kind; it is music no matter whether you and Steven enjoy it.
@@bolillo5013 where does it stop though? Is a bot that can map midi notes based on algorithmic shred patterns played back at 300bpm still music? I would argue that it's not.
@@M2Mil7er Your definition of music painfully limited. Take your gate-keeping attitude and shove it. Just because you don't like a thing doesn't exclude it from the category of thing it very clearly is. Even bad music is music.
I've listened and read a few articles by Steve Wilson over the years. Unpopular opinion, he's a very overrated musician, and has the most forthright views on topics he shouldn't be gatekeeping.
This kind of attitude falls apart when you consider how fast some Beethoven or Paganini pieces are played, for example. Or countless other types of music in genres other than rock. No one accuses them of "not being real music". Everything has it's time and place of course, and everything in moderation, but the dumbing down of music is a modern phenomena usually pushed by people who have limited musical ability.
Thank you for saying that, it’s exactly what I was thinking.
Rip in 3rd movement.
And even before them, Bach and Vivaldi.
This whole text falls apart when you consider the context of what he calls "shred" in this very video, which is not a synonym for playing fast, even though it's certainly one of its elements.
Since I can’t shred so fast, I agree 😂
haha didn't Steven hire Guthrie Govan for two albums and their tours?
Govan its like 10 levels ahead of shreding
Yup, but Guthrie have and amazing phrasing and he can play almost anything, and Steve didn't use it for no sense shredding
Even Guthrie said that Steven was not a fan of Shredding and would ask him to be more restrained and melodic. Guthrie phrasing is phenomenal
@@JoelSebastianMoreno No I know Guthrie is amazing but having listened to a lot of Aristocrats, where he was probably more unleashed, I suspect Steven would have to rein him in often from flying off on his own records. I'm just surprised Steven would hire him knowing what his tendencies are.
@@fathuman He hired him because Guthrie can do what he could not, would personally like to have heard Guthrie add a few highlights to the new album.
cant stand when a musician disses on another music type.... you can dislike something but to say it's not music....who are you to say that !! it's like someone in the 50's saying The Beatles is not music but sounds of the devil... give me a break !!! hence many shredder bands have a shitload of fans cause they like the sounds that is music to their ears !!! I listen to all kinds of music and shredders are pretty f_u_c_k_i_n_g awesome too !!!
Shred guitar is good when the song calls for it. Plain and simple.
That's like saying every slow guitar solo is boring. Or every song with an harmonica hurts your ears. You can take any compositional/physical technique and make the most melodic, emotional musical creation ever made with it, or a dull piece of garbage. Never generalize anything because you're always going to find exceptions, sometimes a lot more often than you might expect. If you can seriously listen to guitarists such as Allan Holdsworth, John Petrucci, Joe Satriani, Paul Waggoner or Tosin Abasi and tell me their playing completely lacks any nuance, emphasis or feel then the problem is probably you.
Maybe his brain is too slow. There are plenty of fast musical phrases with tons of good reason to exist. Coltrane? Cannonball? Wes Montgomery? Granted there is a lot of dumb shredding out there but you would think having played with Guthrie Govan or listened to Jazz he would have heard plenty of examples of really fast music which is far from dumb, which is far from lacking emphasis, or phrasing or musicality.
OR maybe they (shredders) are just communicating in a DIFFERENT way that Steven Wilson can't? I know it's his opinion - but he kinda comes off sounding like just another hater. He even questioned Eddie VanHalen's legacy in a 2021 interview because of his association with shredding (which he said was "vile" to him) - smh. Steven Wilson will never ever be regarded as highly as Eddie VanHalen...
Those shredders from the 80z also created the most iconic guitar ballads solos of that time.. And this statement is invalid as for modern guitar players cause they do little bit of everything pretty well..
Tell that to Yngwie.
Sometimes you need to not look at each individual note someone is playing, but what the emotion and intent is of the phrase. It’s why people think Gilmour plays with more “emotion” than Malmsteen. My analogy is, if you stand too close to Van Gogh’s Starry Night, it’s just tiny little paint scratches. Nothing impressive or noteworthy. Take a step back, and you see the flow and intent of the paint strokes. You see the bigger picture at the sum of its parts.
Having said that… I don’t think that’s what Steven is talking about. I think he’s criticising music where there’s no exploration for new grounds or creativity in the actual songwriting. Basic chord progressions we’ve heard a billion times before with crazy musicianship over the top isn’t enough to warrant repeated listening. To him.
But can gilmour invoke the same kind of emotion malmsteen can? Certainly not. He lacks the speed.
Yngwie Malmateem:- definitely sport
Marty Friedman/joe satriani:- nobody who's got an ear can say what they play is sport or that they lack feel in their playing,
What they do is very melodic
The top players incorporate shred into their vocabulary to create dramatic moments in a solo, or a piece of music. You can moments of slow, emotive passages alongside virtuosic speed runs for an ascending climax, or to build excitement or intensity.
But some entire songs are also meant to be in shred mode. And it's not just guitar. Ludwig Van Beethoven, Rachmaninoff, Paganini, how about these guys?
Moonlight Sonata 3rd movement, Piano Sonata no. 2 in B flat minor, 24 Caprices? Does Steven dare say these are sport?
While he may think that shredders are one trick ponies, I also happen to think that he's sort that sort of one trick pony. The only difference being that he lacks the technical ability the shredders possess, so he tries to defend the boundaries of his ability by downplaying the technique he lacks. And that is my opinion of him.
If it's about his preference then that's okay. But if it's a statement to make claim and not just for himself, Objectively, he is wrong. Does he know anything about music history? I'm surprised that he doesn't seem to know it. I mean, if you love something that much, you would want to know it better. Or maybe he just like his own music and his own musical taste and not "Music" Itself. Cause if he does, then he should already know that virtuosity has always been there and has always been part of the music. Even in the classical era. Actually, several orchestral pieces way back were formed to actually highlight the technique and skill. Yes, that happens a lot, even before electrical guitars were made. In the Baroque era. Vivaldi made a lot of music to highlight the beauty of the music form in itself, you could say, composition just to showcase technique and form in itself. The idea that it's all just about emotion is actually a modern idea by standards of music history. That's the beauty of music, you can just express emotion or express the beauty of its form. The greats like Mozart, Bach, and Paganini will laugh at him if he says musics' only purpose is just to communicate emotion and connect.
This "connection" for music, has always been overrated and snobbish. The idea tries to rewrite music history and its evolution, in a sense tries to sell a lie. Music has always been used in many forms, not just to communicate emotion. Way before such modern Ideas, it was used for rituals, ceremonies, a showcase of form, and many more. I may not like those kinds of use and prefer music that connects through emotion. But it's gonna be a lie if one says that's the end-all and be-all of music. Music is bigger than that and it reduces music to such a small form if you say musics' only purpose is just that. Music has always been subjective and objective. That's why objectively, he is wrong as his statement goes against music history facts of what is considered music.
Steven is a brilliant musician. What about guitar solo from "Drive Home"? Is it shred? It is the perfect final of the song, it's main part.
Guthrie is one of the few who can shred endlessly but can also compose brilliant, emotional guitar solos that don't use speed as the main foundation.
@@taylorpilewski You are absolutely right
Chill guys.... If he hated shredders so much, would he have hired so many of them for his albums???!!!???
I also think we all know what mindless shredding is😅
Steven's philosophy for music is spot-on. There are a lot of good guitarists, mechanically, in the sense that they can play the instrument "well" in a loose sense by playing very quickly or precisely. Unfortunately a lot of these guitarists are not good "musicians", they cannot create emotional or interesting music. The analogy to sport is a good one.
Not being able to portraid emotion - can be sayed about any music that you dont like. its such a lazy sting to say that. there is alot of shred music that cleary invoke emotions take Stive Vai who famusly know for hes emotinal solo's, i think this guy tryed to do a "hot take" but fail miserably.
A good guitarist can play slow when is time to play slow, shred when it's time to shred and it's all part of the same lenguaje. Those who can't shred should not talk about shredding.
ngl I wish guitar shredding was a sport but sadly we cannot quantify shred-ness, because the essence of shred is thrill, accompanying musicality. I wouldn't be thrilled if I see someone playing 15 notes per second just running through the chromatic scale articulating every note as if it's the same over and over again.
Shred requires musicality as well to thrill everyone.
The human ear prefers lead shapes that are closer to vocal lines. We prefer phrasing, a well shaped line, question and answer, pauses, spaces for mystery and emotion. Eloquent lead playing is vocal. Shredding plays lines instead of phrases, and quickly loses all sense of musicality.
It's not the shred guitar that he's against, it's the shredder whose whole personality is based upon being a shredder.
Like those hardcore slipknot maggots, and thrashers who don't want to grow up.
I mean a lot of people like this style of music because they like the way it sounds, that is music. If you don’t like it fine I don’t really give a shit but don’t say it’s not music
did he just insult metal and rap? edit: watched the other video. are people taking Steve willy seriously?
Stupid broad generalisation from a moderately talented musician with little understanding of the genre. 🙄
It is equally possible to be boring slow OR fast. It's also possible to be expressive in either. The challenge is always to find ways to express musicality no matter the tempo or context. Musicians who want versatility in their toolbox will aspire to BE ABLE to play fast so that they have the ability to express themselves musically in any context.
Musicians that bemoan fast playing are often just masking the fact that they can't play as well as others.
I know very little about Steven Wilson as a person or as a musician. However, I've seen 2 short clips of him on this channel where he talks about who should make music and how. He seems to me to have something of a gatekeeper attitude towards others. I'm surprised you provide a platform for that.
And... who should make music, according to Steven Wilson?
I disagree with the guy too, but that's not a reason to deplatform him. He's free to think whatever he wants, we don't need to listen, no matter how moronic it is.
@@Paksusuoli95 I'm not asking for him to be deplatformed. I'm not asking anything. I'm just surprised as it seems to go against what Ray and Kate stand for.
@@nandakoryaaa Well, nobody now. According to him there are too many people already making music and writing songs.
I think you didn't get his point. I think he meant that the world (pop culture, i believe) is saturated with music and it is being commodified regardless of the genre. There is a lot of know-how and accessible technology, which, more often than not, results in overproduced and sterile music. However, there are still plenty of musical fields where very exiting music-art is being made, so I guess one should be careful not to generalize. In any case, I value the intention, the urge and the dare to create music, which challenges conventions and modes of production and distribution.
Haha, Steven Wilson can't shred so he is jelly.
You telling me Steve Vai's solo on "for the love of god" has no emotion?
Two words: David Gilmour. Enough said.
Steven makes pretty self indulgent music to be saying "shred" is too much. a lot of normal people who want to hear music would be challenged by what he does. Just my two cents and I like all kinds of music or I wouldn't be watching his interview!
Andy James proved this wrong
I think that some people can pull it off in a very musical way that worth appreciating. I think of Chon and Polyphia boys, Fusion players like Guthrie, Marco Sfogli, Greg Howe, that all have amazing melodic shred capabilities that sound great.
Melodic shred like vinnie moore
Specially Polyphia : D
Yeah, he says that, then brings Guthrie to guest solo on his music…
All guitar players that can't shred just felt good about themselves for a minute 😄
Can he shred?
That’s what I’ve been wondering, if he can I’d respect this more.
Lacks the inventive chops and technique of someone like Guthrie
The question is: Should he shred? And you just saw what he thinks.
Huh? Porcupine Tree has shredding on some of their own tracks. Bit of a weird criticism.
lol I can agree only upto certain extent tho. Certain shredders like Jason Richardson have incredible speed WITH feeling and enunciation or whatever you call it.
Now he's throwing shade at Eminem for flexing his words chopping skills haha
Actually that's kinda the point, which many people in this comment section insist in not understanding. A guy like Eminem use his skills for articulating fast sentences as a way of expression. It's NOT THE SAME AT ALL as someone just screaming random words for the sake of showing off, which may impress thousands of teenagers, but touches no one.
It’s funny how I don’t hear this about any other instrument. Saxophonists, pianists, drummers etc can play as fast as they want, but polyphia. Mateus Asato, Dream Theater and Animals as Leaders aren’t music. 😂
thats clearly not what he ment xD
@@noawaibel874 Isn’t it though? He said in a previous video that nobody needs to write more music.
Wrong. Drummers who play fast for the sake of playing fast are as boring as shredders for many people. You'd be surprised.
There are few "only shredding" solos I actually like, but they do exist. Yngwe malmsteen has many of these
You know what!! Rap, R n' B, Techno, Grindcore, Trash metal, Vuvuzela or yodel as long as there are people listening and enjoy it, it still call a music.
Even some people called music to a V (V8, V10, V12) engine sound, including me.
Sport is when you improve you muscle or brain ability by doing such thing, at least that is the main goal. Not the sound it makes.
Cheers.
Although I'm a big fan of SW and PT I strongly disagree with this take. You know what's closer to not being music? The last 2 Autechre records which he keeps recommending. I mean 2 guys messing with knobs on modular synths and slapping the term "experimental" on top is really pushing it.
I have a shred channel on UA-cam with lessons I agree to a point. It is fun at times but needs a balance. I have played with many Paul Gilbert Becker Friedman were all in my class at Git and was a fun time but look at them now Vinnie Moore ufo , Paul plays blues, Friedman moved to Japan lol . Again it has to be tasteful and balanced! I ended up in a popular dance band myself because we realized we needed money to survive. Lol if done good you can throw it in at times. I try to teach a balance music is music . But doesn’t mean all music sounds great.
He sounds like the text to speech bot
That was a brilliant analogy, music is not a sport. Unlike Guthrie Goven, Buckethead and the likes, most shredders only care about speed.
I just think it's another type of music and he's not into it. Doesn't mean it's bad, it just means he's probably too old to understand it. As prolific as he is!
But shred sometimes is music
Have ya'll never seen a piano shred in a music recital? Half the point of the recital is the show off and it's goddamn amazing what humans are capable of. Shred in Acid Jazz is amazing especially when the song is already at 10 and it needs to get dialed up to 11. Pretty stupid that we have to make all these arbitrary rules about music, which is all about expressing yourself in the first place. Reminds me of that time where everyone hated sweep picking because: A. It was in every metal song and almost always B. They can't do it.
Porcupine Tree are boring
I 100% agree. There's no heart or soul in what is basically just showing off. Shredding in small doses is great. Continually shredding throughout almost an entire song is boring.
That'a called virtuosity. It originates from the classical music and composers such as Beethoven, Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Schumann... So, cut this crap, get rid of the complex of inferiority and try to improve your singing and playing skills.
Everything is life is music. Even sports, for example :
Timing, perfection, knowing where you are going, having a plan. Your sports comparison was an epic failure on your part.
I wonder If this guy just doesn't understand that shredders are just having fun. We know we can do it, so why the fuck not?
There are shredders that are good and suck. But both have one thing in common, not giving a fuck. I Want you to walk outside, listen to the sounds around you. Everyone has their own musical rhythmic sound. Even in the way they speak. It isn't planned or organized, yet it still brings life to what sound produces.
Even if some one is mindlessly shredding they are intentionally doing it and they are creating some thing, known as musical improvisation, but even within that impovisation they are playing what they only know to create and produce from their fingers.
Personally, playing guitar is fun, if sometimes its more of a "sport" than "music" so what xdd? its fun to practice it, its fun trying to get a part right, Maybe if we are to argue what "music" might be objectively ...than yes, i can agree that shredding should be use just when needed, like every other aspect or way of playing. But man guitar is fun
Ok boomer 💁🏻♂️
Shredding can be cool for fun, but shredding albums are some of the most boring music I've ever heard. It's basically just a guitar over a backing track. No interesting drums or bass. Guthrie Govan is one of the few shredders who's music is interesting.
That’s what cool about music, not everyone connects the same way with a given song. Different strokes for different folk🤷🏻♂️
There are moments when you do have to shred. Just check In This River by Black Label Society. Thats just needed that shred for Dimebag. its a beautiful song. If you can shred it doesent mean you have to shred all the time. Its a tool in your toolbox. And its good and cool to have.
This reminds me of the first time I heard Rusty Cooley play. At first I was blown away, I couldn't believe what I was hearing, but after hearing it a 4 or 5 times, the 'wow' factor was gone and I didn't really like the music and didn't listen to it anymore after that
As a MASSIVE fan of both shredders, Steven Wilson, and progressive music in general, I find it astoundingly ironic that Steven Wilson feels this way about Eddie. This guy is influenced and is inspired by King Crimson and Yes lol. A genre where the musical technique is one of the main focal points. I like complicated music because I like to see how master musicians use their technique in an interesting, musical, and most importantly, moving way. To me all of them do that, including EVH, Yngwie, Holdsworth, McLaughlin, Di Meola, Howe, Fripp, Govan, Vai, too many jazz players to mention, etc lol. They just all do it in a different way, just my personal opinion. Forgot Buckethead too.
My opinion exactly. Guitar is an INSTRUMENT which means it’s a tool for creativity and expression.
It is and should not be merely about your ability to ‘play the guitar’ as though it were an end in itself, but to EXPRESS YOURSELF and create something unique and resonant.
Watching and hearing guitar olympians outnote each other is like watching ‘builders’ compete in an increasingly bizarre and difficult hammer juggling competition.
All this machismo showmanship without even knowing how to use those hammers to create a new space for people to live in.
What a strange world we live in.
Rather silly for Mr Wilson to say that "guitar shredding" isn't, for him, music. Of course it's music, it's just music that doesn't appeal to Mr Wilson. Look at the state of drumming. Drumming technique has reached such a peak of prowess, that drummers end up playing at each other during Vic Firth "drum-off" weekends, doing technically advanced solos that are like grotesque displays of body building.
There isn't a musical form that can absorb the mega-technique of highly skilled drummers, so they end up playing at each other. Interesting to hear Mr Wilson's comments in this video, as he's worked with Guthrie Govan, who is most certainly a monster guitar virtuoso. Time ago, people complained that "modern jazz" was too up-tempo & "had too many notes."