I worked at a large corporation that was an AASP and my role was to do all the Apple repairs. With the 12 lineup, they significantly increased the strength of the display adhesive around the outside which is why they created the oven. With previous models, it was easy enough to just use a suction cup to peel the display up without damaging it. But I tried that once with a 12 and it shattered the screen. 12's and newer need a lot of heat but in a way to not damage the other parts in the phone. Their repair process is easy to someone who's done a few dozen phones but to a newbie, this is a horrible idea. If you've never fixed a phone, just take it to Apple.
That’s funny you mention this. I have since May stopped working at an AASP shop and picked up a 12 mini for myself with a drained battery. Instead of properly using an oven, I just decided to use my suction cup and yanked like I’d normally do with my old iPhone 7. (Just in case, I would never do that for a client and would always preheat the device while at work). But yeah, it shattered and I just ended up going to Apple and replacing both the battery and the screen, which basically resulted in nearly the same price as a new phone. The adhesive on the 12 mini is no joke and I really hope people will follow the guides while taking the phone apart.
@@adriananzano2292 not even relevant. You do not need adhesive for a device to be water proof. Since Apple already use clips and screws for the display, realistically, even a rubber ring would suffice.
I just opened an iPhone 13 with a suction cup and a heat gun. Did a full housing swap. Didn’t crack the screen. Didn’t even scuff the metal frame. If you know you shouldn’t be working on electronics then don’t.
I have replaced hundreds of iPhone screens over the years but you would have to be a glutton for punishment to do a screen repair yourself for more, or even the same money as the "Genius" Bar charges. The whole concept that this is a viable repair option is retarded. Thanks for nothing Apple.
The prices for the tools honestly seem very reasonable to me. I expected them to cost much more. They are industrial machines, and while they are almost comical in their complexity, they help guarantee a uniform repair. Probably not the best tools for someone who has never done a repair before, but I would love to have these machines, and I would definitely buy them if I wanted to start repairing iPhones as a business.
@@kathleensnyder23 Yes, I was referring to the full purchase price. Industrial equipment is usually made of more expensive materials that are built to last, so they cost more than consumer equipment. The full purchase price is still cheaper than I expected from Apple, and as a business investment, would be very affordable and pay for themselves quickly.
Yeah I wouldn’t mind buying the tools. A lot of them appear to be reusable assuming you have the proper cradle for the phone model. And plus I wouldn’t mind getting another pelican case those are pricey.
Just a suggestion - but it would be great to fix screens on two identical phones - one using all the Apple gear, and the other using the Fixit equivalent. Then comparing: a) the end result b) time taken and c) money spent/saved (or not) Anyway congrats to your friend on repairing his phone 👍
And make sure that before you start the test, that both sides are either experts or complete newbies to this. Make a fair comparison. And then have them repair another 20 more phones to see if they can get consistent results with their assigned tools.
While this may not be practical for the typical user, there are some upsides. Those tools would be a great investment for repair shops as it would likely increase productivity. Also, you now have the option to purchase genuine apple parts (if you want them). Not to mention apple provides a service to register the replacement parts so you don't lose features. I'm not praising apple because these are problems they created but still, it's not a terrible program.
@@mitchellsmith4601 you must be joking, what? these tools aren't expensive, they are pretty cheap. They could do so many more repeirs with them so much easier. And you don't really believe Apple doesn't make money with repairs, in what world are you living in?
Ya I could see investing in the tooling to be worthwhile for someone doing lots of repairs. Once the equipment is paid off, this options *is* indeed cheaper than going to Apple.
What I’m not seeing anybody talk about is that this ISNT a program for normal people. This is a program for small repair shops that no longer need to go through the verification program. They just massively lowered the barrier to entry for anyone who wants to start their own repair shop.
I was about to say the same thing but you did it for me. These tools are not for individual "I'd just like to repair my phone myself" handy people, but for small repair shops that would struggle to use older tools for newer iPhone 12/13 models with stronger adhesives.
@@shantanusaha9746 I complete a screen repair on 12’s quicker than using any of these tools. A tech who is used to working on phones everyday wouldn’t touch these tools. They already have their own ifixit kit. All you need.
And yet it isn’t. You need a serial number to buy any part, and they pair it to that serial number so if you buy a screen with one serial number it will only be considered a “genuine” apple part if you put it in a phone with that same serial number. So they’re basically making it impossible for any repair shop to actually use this stuff.
@@myrealusername2193 , yeah, indie shops have to wait for shipping which will push many consumers to just pay the small amount extra (since shops still have to make some sort of profit and Apple doesn't leave much room for that, I expect the cost will be similar to a genius bar) to go to the Genius bar. I could see this making sense for people who live 2-3 hours or more away from the closest Apple Store but have a (more) local repair shop or for places where the Apple Store is booked up for a month or something (happens here in Seattle from time to time).
No it really isn't for smaller shops. They'll have to wait for the parts to get delivered as they are serialized and then verify it. All of this will take time and thus money. When you're only saving $40 compared to Apple, you are operating on some razor thin margins for it to make any sense (especially as you're absorbing the liability). The bare minimum for this program to make sense is to stop serializing components not necessary to security like displays. The absolute best case scenario is that you're quite far away from an Apple store and know a few people with broken iPhones so that you can fix a few iPhones with the rented equipment. For anyone who lives remotely close to an Apple store or authorized repairer, this program makes little sense.
These are quality tools, if you look into it getting tools like this always been expensive, this is relatively price efficient for a proffesional gear. After getting used to this process can be done in minutes. For repair shops this will be good
Definitely, the issue is they haven't adapted this method for the public in an efficient way. The pricing of the parts aside, the rental of tools and manuals being distributed to the general public is certainly not an ideal solution
@@lukemiani I imagine what else they gonna do with the tools? Design en entire product line for the public? Ifixit already does that and they know. Why would they bother with that?
@@lukemiani Back to ifixit this also opens up a lot of options for them going forward, they could desing a product line thats compatible with multiple phones based on apples desing propably for cheaper. Of course with copy rights in mind. I see this as a absolute win for right to repair. With the europian repairablity laws this combined will slowly eliminate the need for apple to implement costly (for them) desing choices that make their phones hard to repair since it becomes pointless and illegal. This might seem like a bone trown to the dogs but I think this will lead to the right path.
@@lukemiani I cant think of any other electronics manufacturer that would supply the exact tools required, to repair in the exact way required, to the original specification, to the general public.
@@lukemiani - well, I suppose the _primary_ target of those kits would indeed be repair shops. Repair manuals look exactly the same as i.e. service manuals for Dell laptops, or, in fact, any other manufacturer that includes them on their sites. I understand some repair shops would be even more happier for schematics and boardviews to do component-level repairs, but I suppose it would indeed be a very specialistic point of interest, which'd have to involve even more specialized tools like thermal cameras, lab power supplies, oscilloscopes, logic analyzers, etc. What I don't like in the new program is a requirement to put the device serial number on the order form. This should be considered sensitive data and never collected purchase-time. And, going even further, the tech doing a repair should be able to issue the device reconfiguration order directly by some API, instead of via phone. I suppose it wouldn't be so hard for Apple to make either a automatically-created limited-permissions user account in their AST2 tool just to issue part reconfiguration orders, or as a form in the part shop itself that unlocks after doing a first order.
@@RolandKoller90 Have you repaired iPhone 12s and newer? They're a pain in the ass to fix. That display is so thin, it doesn't help that the sides are flat and squared. If these displays get shattered, good luck getting them off without brute force and damaging the frame. I work at an AASP and I'm telling you these tools are absolutely necessary.
I do not agree with your statement about it being overcomplicated. I worked at an Apple Certified Shop at my university and we all had to go through Apple Certification in order to be able to work on Apple stuff. However, most of the employees did not care for the official guides and tools used and often times damaged/broken parts and phones. The tools they send you are absolute units and will work like charm if you use them properly. They are precise and consistent. You only need time and effort to follow the guidelines in order to make a quality repair. No one except me bothered to touch Apple stuff in the office because how often they were breaking parts. But honestly, all you had to do was to open GSX and follow the steps they make you do. Nothing hard and complicated. It’s the people that make everything more complex than it should be. Also, as many mentioned, after a while you get used to these tools and most repairs can be done rather quickly.
their guides are usually pretty poor though. Especially the ones for replacing display assemblies on 2016-2020 MacBook Pros really struck me, since they were missing a few crucial steps. I heard from an AASP colleague how their employees were breaking screens all the time due to this. I lol'ed really hard.
Honestly this would make a lot more sense of the parts were more reasonably priced. As many other commenters have said, the actual price of the tooling is surprisingly decent. Even the rental cost is reasonable especially if it includes return shipping. $200+ for a screen is obnoxious though. This is unfortunate because getting OE quality parts straight from Apple sounded awesome.
Dude, a magnetizer costs $.99 cents at Home Depot, or $5 bucks on amazon for a WIHA brand one that will last you and your grandchildren’s life times, sure it’s not a commonly known tool, but it is common and cheap, so a tech savvy person would already have one or get one. even ifixit recommends one, and there’s reasons you’d mag and demag your tools as needed bc sometimes it causes issues (eg taking out an older iMac panel with a magnetized driver is maddening lol)
I used to work at a AASP and let me tell you... when you learn to use Apple tools you get the work done soooo fast. And honestly I expected the price to be higher. Around 1k for industrial machines is cheap.
sorry mate, I've been using them for over a year now and they really don't get any faster. Give me a heat mat and a jimmy tool and I'll get that phone open in 1/5 of the time.
I used to work at Geek Squad and this is the exact same hardware we had to use. The difference is that we had to go through multiple hours/days of training to know how to used these things. But now Apple is just selling them to people with absolutely NO training… that is a recipe for disaster!
Yeah the training was no joke. However i can absolutely see if you take your time and follow the explicit directions you can do it, but thats only if you can trust people to do just that.
@@northslate4850 i really like hardwares and stuffs like these but it feels unsafe to do it myself. I would love to try these stuffs but i obviously can’t take that risk on my money. Like i will need to change batteries of my phone(iphone 11) in future, it costs not more than 50 USD…. It’s not that much but would i try to do it by myself and saving some more cost of labour and stuffs ? Definitely not. Newbie’s(like me), who doesn’t earns that much won’t risk.
@@gauravtawri8803 I agree. But maybe make a simplified version of it and dont just throw your customers into the deep end where the trained technicians are at. I specifically remember that adhesive heating tool being particularly finicky.
@@GarrettCrespo honestly tools aren’t the complete problem like if someone wanted to do it professionally for other people and they doesn’t have the tool but have knowledge then they can use it but its not for normal peoples these are already made for the guy’s who know what they are doing. And like i can buy tool from ifixit and screen from the apple itself and it’ll be more cost effective. I’m not apple fan, point is who can’t do it then (before apple repair kit) would they opt for it even if it was little bit cheaper? People who doesn’t have that much money will just use there broke phone or send it to apple but won’t try to do it themselves and who have it can try it …. But it provides people options and opportunities.
So, magnetizing is essentially like "aligning" all the small magnetic poles in the screwdriver (over simplification). I learned in primary school or whatever, that this is simply done by taking a magnet (a strong one wont hurt) and then just slide it down the driver towards the tip. I thought this was pretty common knowledge.
One trick I've also used is to take a strong, small magnet and attach it a bit further up the screwdriver. Just leave it there while you work, and remove it when you're done. Not quite as convenient as having a "real" magnetized screwdriver, but handy in a pinch.
Magnetise is a jargon while rubbing a magnet across your screwdriver is not. Screwdriver bits could come magnetised and not require the user to do them, but Apple decides not to? Besides, any people who pay Apple money to do DIY repairs are probably the ones who don't know how to "magnetise" a screwdriver
@@trevormang7464 I'm talking fairly generally with magnets. Whatever you wanna call it. But it's fairly rudimentary to use a stronger magnet to "magnetize" another medium.
@@trevormang7464 Screwdriver bits do not come magnetized if they are made of high-strength steel (which you would want them to be made of if you wanted them to last more than a few uses). You would have to magnetize them temporarily with a strong rare-earth or electromagnet to be able to use them for a few minutes before the atoms lose their alignment. Some screwdrivers (like my iFixit kit) have magnets in the shaft to magnetize the bits while using them.
It's actually all seems brilliant! DYI phone repairs are not worth it for a single repair, & haven't been for a long time. But this enables all the indy repairers to do professional repairs. The equipment prices are very reasonable for someone who is setting up a screen replacement business who will do multiple repairs per day. Being able to rent all the parts for $50 means a small business can rent all the equipment and test it out before buying. Watching this video convinced me that if I'm paying somebody, I wouldn't want a repair done by someone who hasn't got this specialised tools. I got rear glass of an Android replaced at an Indy shop, and it was never the same again.
I would like to point out that for some people, the Genius Bar is a 5 hour drive. So the alternative is to ship the phone in for repair, or rent all this equipment.
I don’t get those people that says it’s too much tools for just a screen repair, well apple does just sell the parts individually, if you think that’s too much tools then just buy the replacement part and did it your way.
I repair iphones and learned a lot of stuff on getting best results in disassembly and repairing with classic tools. These are simply put out there to make it look like you have the right to repair (fully) when its not. Also, tip for magnetizing, rub tip of screwdriver on speaker magnet a bit and voila. Thank me later.
These tools offer a level of consistency that's near-perfect while at the same time negating any user error that may damage new replacement screens and customers' phones when doing multiple repairs which can cost ALOT OF MONEY. The price is honeslty a really great investment for any repair shop to maximize their bottom line. You are not buying these tools if you are doing just a single repair.
Using proper tools and procedures *significantly* reduces the chances of breaking a part whilst installing it using ghetto spudger and hair drier methods! Every broken part is a loss for the repair agent. Also, Apple rebate broken, returned parts removed during the repair. You literally have to be an idiot not to do it this way.
As soon as I heard about Apple working on a self-repair-program, I said the parts will be only a few dollars less then letting Apple repair it. I was right.
As someone who has been repairing Apple products for a number of years I was happy to see the repaire kit now available. But heres the facts, I have used this setup from Apple several times and can assure you that the screen repair will only take 30 minutes. I can also say that iFixit does have good repaire instructions and some great tools but the parts they sell are not the same quality that Apple will sell you. But lets face the facts unless you have a background in electronic repair let the pros do it. If you don't and you mess up your phone you get the pleasure of buying a new one. The Right to Repair people wanted this and now they have it but remember this equipment is designed for people that know what they are doing.
Yeah, this has got to be a compliance thing. It's hard to say whether this is a cynical maneuver on their part to comply with the law in the most inconvenient way possible, or if it's just them trying to cover their legal bases by making sure that the repair kits produce (theoretically, if you do it correctly) the same results as if you had Apple do it in the store. Apple is resourceful enough that I'm sure that they could come up with a much simpler and equally effective method for doing the same repairs, but I'm sure that would have taken months if not years of R&D and research to figure out, and they probably needed to meet compliance a lot sooner than that. I doubt there will be a serious demand for kits to repair your own iPhones, so I really doubt that they're gonna make this any simpler. I mean... in the end, they're probably right, it's just easier, better, and quicker to let Apple fix it for you. People like to complain about their rights, and lawmakers sometimes respond, but many times the right to do something doesn't necessarily mean it's practical, or even a good idea to do that thing that you so wanted the right to do!
I was predicting this when all the Right-to-repair tards kept sobbing for genuine parts. THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA THAT STRICT STANDARDS LIKE ISO 9001 EXIST. It is not possible for a multi-billion dollar international corporation to replace a fucking resistor like Louis Rossmann does. They cannot and will not ever endorse these types of repairs. How could a company be consistent if they charged for A+ repairs in their stores, but also offered a way for you to botch a repair at home with a hair dryer and tweezers? How the fuck would they then even justify in-house repairs if people could say "but it only takes a hair dryer and tweezers"? I aplaud Apple and how they resolved this. You want to repair your screen? Well, you'd better be fucking willing to become a screen repair technician.
Malicious compliance is a thing, and sounds like a perfectly Apple thing to do when forced to do something. As others have put it, this feels like Apple intentionally trying to make it seem hard and expensive to make people not want to repair stuff on their own, so they can then argue against Right to Repair legislation that is currently heavily targeting them among other infamously anti-repair corporations like John Deere.
I wouldn’t say equally. I work in manufacturing. If the engineers thought they could build cheaper fixtures and get the same results with the same failure rate, they would. Apple likely has a not so insignificant number of these kits across the world. Sure someone can get the I fixit setup to work. I’ve fixed many phones over the years, but rarely do they ever feel oem again. I certainly wouldn’t take them near water. I don’t think they could engineer a cheaper solution, with the same effectiveness, and not lose money.
Yea this makes sense, Apple os saying “you want to do it, do it right” and when you realize its not easy you just take it in. I don’t think this is designed to “fail” tho
That Apple kit is worth it for that machine to remove the screen, it's 1000 times easier then a heat sack and a sucker cup and guitar picks, hoping you don't crack your screen if your trying to replace a battery!
This is actually quite reassuring. It reminds me that if I send my phone to an authorised repair place it gets done properly with the correct tools, rather than some bloke in the back room with a suction cup.
I recently changed a screen on an iPhone 8 Plus. I used a hair dryer in place of the heaty boy and a suction cup. Worked like a charm. Apple is totally making this overly complicated to discourage people from repairing things themselves.
As some people have commented here, the adhesive used in the iPhone 12 and 13 screens are much stronger, probably to achieve their better water resistance, and so just using a hair dryer will sometimes not be enough--some people commenting here said they tried removing iPhone 12 and 13 screens using the same methods and heat they used to remove screens on older iPhones, and they shattered some of the screens on these newer iPhones.
I do that every day in 45 min or less lol… That’s also because I’ve been trained by apple to do it and have several repairs under my belt. But yeah it sucks at times . And those are the same tools we use at the Apple Store Glad customers get to know the struggle as well 😂
Unfortunately iFixit parts and tools are not that great. Batteries usually don't last very long, displays are good but still you get important display message and their display seal is really not waterproof as it should be. For that kind of money I would expect more.
Not to mention most of the screens I’ve got from them are nowhere near as good as OEM - and I am not even that picky, but it’s obvious to even a simpleton that something is off.
@@digital4282 That is correct, yes. Those screens are not that shitty as ones from ebay or aliexpress but nowhere near as good as those originals. So if I can buy only screen, preprogramed for my iPhone directly from Apple, that is something great for me. Especially since we don't have Apple Store here in Czech Republic and if you opt for unauthorized service, for that kind of money you get replacement screen in iFixit shitty quality. So well done Apple!
Technically, Apple never makes screens themselves. Louis Rossmann already pointed this out. Apple just buys them in bulk from a contractor specializing in making screens for devices (notably: Samsung Display Solutions or BOE, depending on phone model). The same contractor can, and will, also sell the same screens to any other vendor. The difference here is quality control. Apple specifically orders AAA+ grade stock (meaning, all their parts are subject to rigorous testing process individually), while other resellers got A grade stock when they get lucky or just happen to be willing to pay more, or, in most cases, B grade stock (basically all the discards from other quality control stages which _at least seem_ to work). The manufacturer is happily selling them because, you know, it's more profitable than just yeeting them out, but the average alternative part market suffers.
Interesting video and it was nice to see the process. I heard Quinn from snazzylabs say in his video that they’re basically selling the parts at a loss, this happens with their Genius repairs too. I feel like that even though it’s $7 more when all is said and done, you do have the advantage of not having to drive to an Apple Store which for some people is good because they live many hours away from one, so they’d be saving likely over $7 in gas especially right now. Quinn also brought up that the cost to ship the repair tools likely barely covers shipping. So honestly it’s hard for Apple to sell them for less. Plus you get a proper water resistant seal which is worth a bit more peace of mind compared to if you just repaired it without the press.
The toolkit is certainly shipped at a loss, 75lbs in 2 boxes anywhere in the country for $49 is definitely good, my issue is that it brings total pricing over the Genius Bar level, and that the repair can be performed just as well with simple, less expensive tools. The press applies constant pressure for 30 seconds, you can achieve the same results by placing some books on the phone
@@lukemiani What did you expect? For Apple to provide an el-cheapo version? DIY is RARELY about saving money. These tools are fantastic for fly by night students who want to make a few bucks fixing phones. And those tools are relatively inexpensive, to be honest... probably BECAUSE they're the same one they're making for their stores. It would probably cost Apple the same as these higher priced tools due to lower volume... and people would complain anyhow. Apple isn't going to invest time and money into making custom tools for DIYers.
Oh they are not making a loss at all. Of course it's just estimates, but let's take the iPhone 12 Pro screen for example. It's estimated production cost is around 70$. Let's say they're even wrong by 50$ and that the actual price is somewhere around 120$. The screen is 236$ after returning your old screen. Even in that scenario they are still making around 115$ per screen. And even if we add shipping all the way from China to your doorstep it's still around 105$. There is no way Apple is making a loss on these repairs, it's most likely a marketing coy to make people feel better about their generosity. And first and foremost, Apple is marketing company. That is what they really do best.
iFixit having some tools is irrelevant. Using those tools, especially by someone who doesn't know what they are doing will lead to a phone often more damaged than when it started. The parts they offer are also not equivalent to Apple Genuine parts (apples fault yes, but thats a separate issue). iFixit is cheaper because they're sending you knockoff parts. Apple is sending out the tools to do it right, and consistently, especially by a novice. For example, no screen repair done by anyone without the proper press can be considered even remotely water resistant any more. Apple give the correct tool to achieve the water resistance.
That’s what I don’t understand about these kind of videos - sure, the screen is expensive, but it’s also OEM and not something someone in Shanghai scraped up off the floor and refurbished. Could Apple make the price of the screen less? I’m almost certain they could. Could they make the repair simpler? Maybe, but at what cost? Simpler doesn’t always mean better. I applaud that Apple even tried this, and it’s a start in the right direction if they can get the cost down to some kind of reasonable price, which I’d bet would be likely further in the future, as if you look at the BOM the screen isn’t too far off of what they are already charging.
@@digital4282 Before this program people would have sold their left nut to get the same equipment, and manuals apple use to do their phones. Now you can buy the whole thing for a grand and wah wah wah, mostly from people not actually doing repairs. Truly a no win situation.
@@RolandKoller90 You need the proper tools to do it with any degree of assurance. Just because you manually apply the adhesive and snap the screen back on does not mean it has fully sealed water tight.
All of these parts are designed to replace screens at scale. For a home user, its the equivelant of having one of those chest hight multi-stage multifunction copiers for printing a few mages a month. Or one of those industrial shipping container fridges when you just freeze some soups every once in a while.
How can you argue that these tools and machines aren't necessary? They were designed specifically to accomplish a task easily, efficiently and most important, properly. Can you bust your way into an iPhone, absolutely, but I want my $1000 device repaired the way it meant to be repaired. I think this is a great program. Expensive? Yea, probably, but it's Apple and when you buy an Apple product you should just accept that.
Assuming your $1000 device does break down, how often do you need the tools to do those self-repair? Once every 2 to 4 years? Its just not practical to rent these tools just to repair one phone. And the costs of the parts plus tools plus your labor plus your time is not going to be very worth it to do so.
@@JCTY299 Maybe not for you. Not everyone nickels and dimes everything. I've purchased 3 Apple cloths. I'm sure you will tell me they aren't worth it, but they are to me. What exactly do you want Apple to do, just give everything away? I find their pricing and repair costs, etc., to be quite fair. Noone forces you to buy Apple. If you can't afford it or don't want to spend the money, don't buy Apple. It's quite simple.
The take that everyone is missing here is the people that don't want to deal with the time and faff to get to the nearest Apple store or AASP. This would also be great for enterprises that have dozens or hundreds of the the same model and can rent the equipment once and replace a ton of parts.
When Sam said that he believed that because it was Apple it would only take 30 minutes, that says everything you need to know about the cult Apple has created. And this comes from an Apple eco user. Kudos to you Luke for keeping it real. Thanks.
Honestly as someone who is more comfortable around larger devices like laptops, these tools are definitely not for me. But neither is reparing my phone myself. If I take it to the Apple Store, I can go hang at the mall and enjoy myself while they fix my phone, and if I do it myself, I can't do that. So I think even if I could repare my phone, it's more fun to just take it to have someone else do it. I can make it a date with myself, and there's really no downside. Apple really does make it easy to get things done through them. It may be expensive, but at least you're not the one wasting your time
Yup. I'm a pretty good repair tech (I got started some time in the 1980s), and I could easily use all the tools in this video, but when my iPhone 6s needed a new battery last year, I took it to a local Apple Store at a mall and had them do the work for something like $49 plus tax. They told me when it would be ready to pick up later in the afternoon. While I waited, I walked around the mall, and returned to the store when they said it would be ready. It worked out fine. But some people who don't live near an Apple Store or other repair shop might want to do the work themselves.
So theoretically a Repair Shop can buy this Equipment for 1000 dollars and then let customers order their own parts and help them repair at a lower cost than apple? (with original parts?)
By the time customers order their own parts....they would have paid a high price....and its not worth it for the shops to repair because what they earn is peanuts because they cannot exceed the total costs that the Genius Bar charges. There is absolutely no cost savings. In fact you probably pay more with your wallet AND your time.
For a self repair like this it is also important to consider people that don't live close to Apple stores and that may even have long shipping situations (mostly people living in remote areas) they don't always have the option to drive hours to get their phone fixed in person and don't want to be without their device for a week or two or more with long shipping times.
This brings back memories, when i was working as an Apple IOS technician, in a AASP company. I used all of the tools except the "heat pressing" tool which was introduced after i left. I remember everytime i shattered a screen with the suction cup tool to open the device, i had to contact Apple support for technician and all of that nonsense they wrote.
So I feel like there’s way too much overlook on how cheap these machines are. I’m an automotive tech, do you know know expensive specific model special tools, or hell, just a simple professional level socket set and a single ratchet, that’s $600 right there alone. These are soooooo cheap to repair phone after phone
for what they offer, they aren't cheap at all. There is tools to separate display panels from glass that cost that much. Or vacuum machines to get rid of air bubbles when you refurbish screens. The tools shown here are designed for people who have two left hands. I used these to see if I could perform a repair using only one hand. And yes, it was possible. So maybe these are even designed for people with disabilities.
You were correct in your previous video. There is legislation proposed code named "right to repair". Now, if that legislation becomes law, Apple is ahead of the game. The legislation does not say, it must be less expensive than either taking in the product (not all states have Apple Stores) or sending it in. It clearly is cheaper to take it in. I had my display cracked, on the last day of my Apple Care+, so I immediately took it to an Apple Store and what they did was ask me if I have a current backup. I did, I brought it on a USB flash drive. The Genius Bar guy, went to a drawer pulled out a "new" phone - it could have been refurbished and asked it I wanted to restore it myself or he could do it for me. I asked him to do it for me and he restored my phone with a Mac. It was working perfectly. I signed a form, on an iPad, walked out without paying anything extra. They didn't repair it right then and there. They replaced it. Now, they have Apple Care+ that you pay monthly (on some devices) and I called Apple and I spoke to the manager at my favorite Apple store, and confirmed that as long as you keep up the monthly payments, you're covered. So, I said that if I keep that up for 10 years and it stops working, as long as you pay it, we will repair it or replace it, at our option. So, technically they would be following the law, if it becomes law. I doesn't mean it is better for consumers, it just follows what may become law. I spoke to several congress people of the House and Senate, and they said that they would pass it. It would be sent to President Biden and he could veto it, but congress has enough votes to override the President, or he could sign it into law or ignore it and after some time, it would become law. In other words, it will happen. The other option of taking it in is far better, but you can repair it yourself if that is what you want to do. It's not going to fail, it will be the least chosen path.
This video was in that case designed to be clickbait. Pure clickbait. The tools are simply provided if you want/need them, and you can pay extra for them. You don't *have* to rent them. They provide you with the means and tools that the genius bar uses, if you don't have those yourself. For most people who want to repair their iPhone, we DO have the means and we don't need their guide/tools. It's not an "if you want to repair iPhones, you have to use this" but they provide those things if you want them, as an EXTRA. 'Sides, not everyone is lucky enough to have an Apple store nearby. My nearest one is like 200km away, and with today's gas prices... The tools are that expensive 'cause they're not meant for an individual to own them. These are overbuilt to endure a lot of usage and to be used in a predictable, repeatable manner by multiple people. At the genius bar, or when renting them out many many times. Makes sense, no? These tools aren't supposed to survive ONE Sam or Luke, but to survive a thousand. The parts could've been cheaper, absolutely, but imagine spending 80 bucks on JUST THE GAS on a roadtrip to the Apple store, and then having to get your screen replaced. Getting one in the mail and doing it yourself isn't a bad option then.
I worked for sprint and did apple repairs we used everything here except the screen heating tool. Its definitely overkill. The big thing is the MacBook for calibrating the screen after the repair. But I’m surprised they give the end user all these tools for repairs.
You know what makes sense? Just ordering say they screen kit only. This program is for tech savvy people. All these videos trashing the program are clearly after something else. Which should be address separately. The fact that we can get genuine parts is amazing.
Thank you for the video! I think some aspects are missing… One fact is for example the self repair movement in some countries. Apple can now use the new program in order to argue against these interest groups enforcing self repair. Now Apple offers „something“… Apple offers something and so nobody can say that they are not delivering…some countries tried to put pressure on Apple in order to change the current situation! Same with power adapters… in EU we had discussions of dozens of tons of different power adapters which are produced… Apple solved the issue by separating phones and power adapters… smart solutions to problems… 😉😉😉
Agreed, This is not for everyone and it’s not to be a cost saver. But there are a few key places where this is handy. Not everyone has a short drive to an apple store / Genius Bar. That can burn a day or two depending on the time to repair just shuffling back and forth to the store. And the other is a privacy / security concern - in a regulated industry (like hipaa ) the device shouldn’t be out of your sight. Something you don’t get at the Genius Bar when they effect repairs. If you do have a Genius Bar available definitely go that route - life is too short to be without a device integral to our everyday life .
I don't care that apple's tools or parts are pricey. I don't necessarily even care that they make things harder than they need to be to repair. What I care about is the anti-competitive practices like blocking other companies from selling compatible parts, and serialization of their own parts. That's the big issue to me.
You forgot to mention that one of the huge benefits of doing it the apple way is that all of the features of the screen will work after the replacement (True Tone, Face ID etc…) which is not the case when you do it with Ifixit or other third party manufacturers
I love how people have nothing better to do than complain. When Apple did not provide anything at all people complained now that Apple provides all the tools and parts people complain that it’s too difficult or not cheap enough.
The main goal of tools like these is to achieve consistent results. That's why they're used in workshops around the world. I can't speak to these tools SPECIFICALLY, but it's true for tools in general.
People who live far away from an Apple Store may do this? Like if it costs you a tank of gas to get to a genius bar you may end up coming out ahead financially by doing your own repair. But still, this is pretty ridiculous.
It's because so many people are vain, and stupid, and only see the shiny wow factor that Apple puts on their products. IMHO Apple is more of a lifestyle brand that happens to sell tech stuff, than it is a straight tech company, as they make more money off their services than their hardware at this point. If more people actually cared, and woke up, they would see how horrible the compan really is in a lot of ways, they might not be able to get away with this kind of stuff.
People have been complaining about Apple and "Right to Repair" forever. They have finally given in and now people are complaining about the program. Enough already!
After working for an AASP I think a lot of the points you made aren’t very considerate of what apples doing. People wanted access to tools and manuals and they got it apple is not obliged to changing their manuals to make it easier for newbies. Instead I think we should talk about how they only did it for the newer iPhone models and and haven’t released anything for macs. The pricing for parts is also very similar to what they are for AASP’s at least and tools are priced similarly as well, as far as OOW (out of warranty) repairs go this is the same thing that Apple stores and service providers get access to.
∂going it yourself is NEVER cheaper. It's about personal satisfaction. Same thing with woodworking. You can build your own table but you can buy a table for much cheaper, especially taking into consideration the time it takes.
This really is the equivalent the loaning a mechanic shop to a person who wants to replace a tire... Yes, trained professionals who replace hundreds of tires a day use a shop, but no a regular person doesn't need it for a single repair...
The analogy is if you wanted to change a tire and iFixit sold you a fucking tire spudger and a new tire. You can do it, but it is retarded to expect normal people to be able to do it without major problems. iFixit doesn't give a fuck if you screw up your phone. Apple does, and they provide everything for a perfect replacement, though they can't stand behind your shoulder.
11:40 Many people who own Apple devices don't live a reasonable distance from a Genius Bar. The two closest ones to me are about 2 hours and 3 hours drive away from where I live. With current gas prices, that extra $7 is a steal.
This makes sense, if you think that Apple is trying to discourage us from repairing things ourselves. They are giving us the option to tick a regulatory box. They are offering it just to say that you can do it but have made the process so difficult that you won’t do it. I have repaired my DJI drone a few times, so I know I probably could do this with enough patience. I still wouldn’t because the cost savings isn’t there. I personally keep AppleCare on my phones for peace of mind and to make Apple fix something if I break it.
I imagine this makes sense for people who are far away from an Apple Store, so if you need to travel 6 hours it might be worth it to do the labor yourself.
I use my 3d printer heated bed to heat the gun loose, than I scratch it all out. add the adhesive and with the clamps I just let it all for a couple of hours to dry the new parts
This is to counter sues about fact that apple make hardware that is not repairable. They say now "Hey we have kits that allow anyone to fix their apple products at home!"
“ Good morning, Mr. Miani, your mission if you should decide to accept it, is to repair your Iphone with no knowledge of how to use the Apple equipment. If caught or killed by the equipment, Tim Cook will disavow any knowledge of your existence. This memory card will self destruct in 5 seconds. Good luck, Luke. “🚧🚑💥
I have seen other videos about this that say that you have to agree to some very invasive terms. You do not mention this. Please explain. Love your videos and I am a subscriber. Many thanks ,Luke.
this only makes sense if you're an independent repair shop and want to use apples own tools and parts, if you buy the equipment and use it to repair lots of iPhones as a business and get the experience needed to do it right, then these tools will make the repair pretty much perfect. it's not for the DIY person to repair one phone out of warranty. The catch is that these tools only repair the newest devices, not the ones that most DIY'ers will repair which are older devices no longer under warranty.
Last time I looked the nearest Apple repair store for me was 3.5 hours each way. Granted, I live in the middle of nowhere, but this might make sense for some people. On the other hand iFixit would probably be a better idea for most.
I worked at a large corporation that was an AASP and my role was to do all the Apple repairs. With the 12 lineup, they significantly increased the strength of the display adhesive around the outside which is why they created the oven. With previous models, it was easy enough to just use a suction cup to peel the display up without damaging it. But I tried that once with a 12 and it shattered the screen. 12's and newer need a lot of heat but in a way to not damage the other parts in the phone. Their repair process is easy to someone who's done a few dozen phones but to a newbie, this is a horrible idea. If you've never fixed a phone, just take it to Apple.
That’s funny you mention this. I have since May stopped working at an AASP shop and picked up a 12 mini for myself with a drained battery. Instead of properly using an oven, I just decided to use my suction cup and yanked like I’d normally do with my old iPhone 7. (Just in case, I would never do that for a client and would always preheat the device while at work). But yeah, it shattered and I just ended up going to Apple and replacing both the battery and the screen, which basically resulted in nearly the same price as a new phone. The adhesive on the 12 mini is no joke and I really hope people will follow the guides while taking the phone apart.
well, that stronger adhesive just means better water resistance which is actually an upside.
@@adriananzano2292 not even relevant. You do not need adhesive for a device to be water proof. Since Apple already use clips and screws for the display, realistically, even a rubber ring would suffice.
I just opened an iPhone 13 with a suction cup and a heat gun. Did a full housing swap. Didn’t crack the screen. Didn’t even scuff the metal frame. If you know you shouldn’t be working on electronics then don’t.
I have replaced hundreds of iPhone screens over the years but you would have to be a glutton for punishment to do a screen repair yourself for more, or even the same money as the "Genius" Bar charges. The whole concept that this is a viable repair option is retarded. Thanks for nothing Apple.
The prices for the tools honestly seem very reasonable to me. I expected them to cost much more. They are industrial machines, and while they are almost comical in their complexity, they help guarantee a uniform repair. Probably not the best tools for someone who has never done a repair before, but I would love to have these machines, and I would definitely buy them if I wanted to start repairing iPhones as a business.
Yeah, I doubt you’d find comparable fixtures aftermarket for much less.
It’s $50 to rent them, not buy them. Those machines are WAY more to purchase.
@@kathleensnyder23 Yes, I was referring to the full purchase price. Industrial equipment is usually made of more expensive materials that are built to last, so they cost more than consumer equipment. The full purchase price is still cheaper than I expected from Apple, and as a business investment, would be very affordable and pay for themselves quickly.
Yeah I wouldn’t mind buying the tools. A lot of them appear to be reusable assuming you have the proper cradle for the phone model. And plus I wouldn’t mind getting another pelican case those are pricey.
@@kathleensnyder23 Kathleen over here lookin like a Karen.
Just a suggestion - but it would be great to fix screens on two identical phones - one using all the Apple gear, and the other using the Fixit equivalent. Then comparing:
a) the end result
b) time taken and
c) money spent/saved (or not)
Anyway congrats to your friend on repairing his phone 👍
Yeah I was going to suggest this!
Would love to see this!
Ditto!!
And make sure that before you start the test, that both sides are either experts or complete newbies to this. Make a fair comparison. And then have them repair another 20 more phones to see if they can get consistent results with their assigned tools.
Good idea
While this may not be practical for the typical user, there are some upsides. Those tools would be a great investment for repair shops as it would likely increase productivity. Also, you now have the option to purchase genuine apple parts (if you want them). Not to mention apple provides a service to register the replacement parts so you don't lose features. I'm not praising apple because these are problems they created but still, it's not a terrible program.
I don’t think there would be enough profit to invest in all these tools. Even Apple admits it loses money on repairs.
@@mitchellsmith4601 you must be joking, what? these tools aren't expensive, they are pretty cheap. They could do so many more repeirs with them so much easier. And you don't really believe Apple doesn't make money with repairs, in what world are you living in?
@@user-jt6xh2ln9z it look pretty expensive
@@imdyinginside1919 1k for a repair shop is peanuts. They make that up easily in no time, and once paid off, it's all profit unless they break.
Ya I could see investing in the tooling to be worthwhile for someone doing lots of repairs. Once the equipment is paid off, this options *is* indeed cheaper than going to Apple.
What I’m not seeing anybody talk about is that this ISNT a program for normal people. This is a program for small repair shops that no longer need to go through the verification program. They just massively lowered the barrier to entry for anyone who wants to start their own repair shop.
I was about to say the same thing but you did it for me. These tools are not for individual "I'd just like to repair my phone myself" handy people, but for small repair shops that would struggle to use older tools for newer iPhone 12/13 models with stronger adhesives.
@@shantanusaha9746 I complete a screen repair on 12’s quicker than using any of these tools. A tech who is used to working on phones everyday wouldn’t touch these tools. They already have their own ifixit kit. All you need.
And yet it isn’t. You need a serial number to buy any part, and they pair it to that serial number so if you buy a screen with one serial number it will only be considered a “genuine” apple part if you put it in a phone with that same serial number. So they’re basically making it impossible for any repair shop to actually use this stuff.
@@myrealusername2193 , yeah, indie shops have to wait for shipping which will push many consumers to just pay the small amount extra (since shops still have to make some sort of profit and Apple doesn't leave much room for that, I expect the cost will be similar to a genius bar) to go to the Genius bar. I could see this making sense for people who live 2-3 hours or more away from the closest Apple Store but have a (more) local repair shop or for places where the Apple Store is booked up for a month or something (happens here in Seattle from time to time).
No it really isn't for smaller shops. They'll have to wait for the parts to get delivered as they are serialized and then verify it. All of this will take time and thus money. When you're only saving $40 compared to Apple, you are operating on some razor thin margins for it to make any sense (especially as you're absorbing the liability). The bare minimum for this program to make sense is to stop serializing components not necessary to security like displays.
The absolute best case scenario is that you're quite far away from an Apple store and know a few people with broken iPhones so that you can fix a few iPhones with the rented equipment. For anyone who lives remotely close to an Apple store or authorized repairer, this program makes little sense.
These are quality tools, if you look into it getting tools like this always been expensive, this is relatively price efficient for a proffesional gear.
After getting used to this process can be done in minutes.
For repair shops this will be good
Definitely, the issue is they haven't adapted this method for the public in an efficient way. The pricing of the parts aside, the rental of tools and manuals being distributed to the general public is certainly not an ideal solution
@@lukemiani I imagine what else they gonna do with the tools? Design en entire product line for the public? Ifixit already does that and they know. Why would they bother with that?
@@lukemiani Back to ifixit this also opens up a lot of options for them going forward, they could desing a product line thats compatible with multiple phones based on apples desing propably for cheaper. Of course with copy rights in mind. I see this as a absolute win for right to repair. With the europian repairablity laws this combined will slowly eliminate the need for apple to implement costly (for them) desing choices that make their phones hard to repair since it becomes pointless and illegal.
This might seem like a bone trown to the dogs but I think this will lead to the right path.
@@lukemiani I cant think of any other electronics manufacturer that would supply the exact tools required, to repair in the exact way required, to the original specification, to the general public.
@@lukemiani - well, I suppose the _primary_ target of those kits would indeed be repair shops. Repair manuals look exactly the same as i.e. service manuals for Dell laptops, or, in fact, any other manufacturer that includes them on their sites. I understand some repair shops would be even more happier for schematics and boardviews to do component-level repairs, but I suppose it would indeed be a very specialistic point of interest, which'd have to involve even more specialized tools like thermal cameras, lab power supplies, oscilloscopes, logic analyzers, etc.
What I don't like in the new program is a requirement to put the device serial number on the order form. This should be considered sensitive data and never collected purchase-time.
And, going even further, the tech doing a repair should be able to issue the device reconfiguration order directly by some API, instead of via phone. I suppose it wouldn't be so hard for Apple to make either a automatically-created limited-permissions user account in their AST2 tool just to issue part reconfiguration orders, or as a form in the part shop itself that unlocks after doing a first order.
“Is that an iMac power cable?”
Wow, Apple can even make their own repair kits seem like Apple.
LOL. Well said.
AYO HE HEARTED IT
I'm surprised the cable isn't extra LOL
Warehouse of 37,000 surplus IEC cables … why not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is industrial equipment, doesn’t matter what it looks like.
These tools are absolutely necessary if you are on iPhone repair and got a line of 50+ busted iPhone displays to repair when on shift.
Absolutely not the case. All I need is a heat gun and my ifixit tool kit. You are buggin.
@@RolandKoller90 Have you repaired iPhone 12s and newer? They're a pain in the ass to fix. That display is so thin, it doesn't help that the sides are flat and squared.
If these displays get shattered, good luck getting them off without brute force and damaging the frame.
I work at an AASP and I'm telling you these tools are absolutely necessary.
@@RolandKoller90 you have never opened the adhesive on an iPhone 12 or newer lmaooooooooo
@@RolandKoller90 open a repair shop with that logic and lets see how long that business last and what people would say about it!
@@Yzyenthusiast fax 12 comes off in 1 min no heat
I do not agree with your statement about it being overcomplicated. I worked at an Apple Certified Shop at my university and we all had to go through Apple Certification in order to be able to work on Apple stuff. However, most of the employees did not care for the official guides and tools used and often times damaged/broken parts and phones. The tools they send you are absolute units and will work like charm if you use them properly. They are precise and consistent. You only need time and effort to follow the guidelines in order to make a quality repair. No one except me bothered to touch Apple stuff in the office because how often they were breaking parts. But honestly, all you had to do was to open GSX and follow the steps they make you do. Nothing hard and complicated. It’s the people that make everything more complex than it should be.
Also, as many mentioned, after a while you get used to these tools and most repairs can be done rather quickly.
They actually make the process way easier! I have seen the leaked apple internal repair videos where they demonstrated how to use them!
their guides are usually pretty poor though. Especially the ones for replacing display assemblies on 2016-2020 MacBook Pros really struck me, since they were missing a few crucial steps. I heard from an AASP colleague how their employees were breaking screens all the time due to this. I lol'ed really hard.
Apple really want this to fail don't they? All of this to combat independent repair shops. They've probably even put a price on Rossman's head.
Honestly this would make a lot more sense of the parts were more reasonably priced. As many other commenters have said, the actual price of the tooling is surprisingly decent. Even the rental cost is reasonable especially if it includes return shipping.
$200+ for a screen is obnoxious though. This is unfortunate because getting OE quality parts straight from Apple sounded awesome.
The two parts that made me laugh. Luke's happy face when he said "Too many boys!". And Sam saying "If you love yourself, don't do this!" LOL
Agree...Luke and Sam should rename the video, "If you love yourself, don't do this!"...LOL
had to think of the song Boys performed by Sabrina in the 80ies…
Dude, a magnetizer costs $.99 cents at Home Depot, or $5 bucks on amazon for a WIHA brand one that will last you and your grandchildren’s life times, sure it’s not a commonly known tool, but it is common and cheap, so a tech savvy person would already have one or get one. even ifixit recommends one, and there’s reasons you’d mag and demag your tools as needed bc sometimes it causes issues (eg taking out an older iMac panel with a magnetized driver is maddening lol)
And yet, most tool kits around $10-20 include one, and Apple couldn't with theirs?
I used to work at a AASP and let me tell you... when you learn to use Apple tools you get the work done soooo fast. And honestly I expected the price to be higher. Around 1k for industrial machines is cheap.
sorry mate, I've been using them for over a year now and they really don't get any faster. Give me a heat mat and a jimmy tool and I'll get that phone open in 1/5 of the time.
@@PvtAnonymous that wasn’t my experience. At least till iPhone 12.
I used to work at Geek Squad and this is the exact same hardware we had to use. The difference is that we had to go through multiple hours/days of training to know how to used these things. But now Apple is just selling them to people with absolutely NO training… that is a recipe for disaster!
But then again people want to repair their stuffs by themselves, so why not?
Yeah the training was no joke. However i can absolutely see if you take your time and follow the explicit directions you can do it, but thats only if you can trust people to do just that.
@@northslate4850 i really like hardwares and stuffs like these but it feels unsafe to do it myself. I would love to try these stuffs but i obviously can’t take that risk on my money. Like i will need to change batteries of my phone(iphone 11) in future, it costs not more than 50 USD…. It’s not that much but would i try to do it by myself and saving some more cost of labour and stuffs ? Definitely not. Newbie’s(like me), who doesn’t earns that much won’t risk.
@@gauravtawri8803 I agree. But maybe make a simplified version of it and dont just throw your customers into the deep end where the trained technicians are at. I specifically remember that adhesive heating tool being particularly finicky.
@@GarrettCrespo honestly tools aren’t the complete problem like if someone wanted to do it professionally for other people and they doesn’t have the tool but have knowledge then they can use it but its not for normal peoples these are already made for the guy’s who know what they are doing. And like i can buy tool from ifixit and screen from the apple itself and it’ll be more cost effective. I’m not apple fan, point is who can’t do it then (before apple repair kit) would they opt for it even if it was little bit cheaper?
People who doesn’t have that much money will just use there broke phone or send it to apple but won’t try to do it themselves and who have it can try it …. But it provides people options and opportunities.
For professional third party repair places, all these tools will save on time and effort. That’s one reason one might buy these.
So, magnetizing is essentially like "aligning" all the small magnetic poles in the screwdriver (over simplification). I learned in primary school or whatever, that this is simply done by taking a magnet (a strong one wont hurt) and then just slide it down the driver towards the tip. I thought this was pretty common knowledge.
One trick I've also used is to take a strong, small magnet and attach it a bit further up the screwdriver. Just leave it there while you work, and remove it when you're done. Not quite as convenient as having a "real" magnetized screwdriver, but handy in a pinch.
Magnetise is a jargon while rubbing a magnet across your screwdriver is not. Screwdriver bits could come magnetised and not require the user to do them, but Apple decides not to? Besides, any people who pay Apple money to do DIY repairs are probably the ones who don't know how to "magnetise" a screwdriver
@@trevormang7464 I'm talking fairly generally with magnets. Whatever you wanna call it. But it's fairly rudimentary to use a stronger magnet to "magnetize" another medium.
@@trevormang7464 Screwdriver bits do not come magnetized if they are made of high-strength steel (which you would want them to be made of if you wanted them to last more than a few uses). You would have to magnetize them temporarily with a strong rare-earth or electromagnet to be able to use them for a few minutes before the atoms lose their alignment. Some screwdrivers (like my iFixit kit) have magnets in the shaft to magnetize the bits while using them.
It's actually all seems brilliant! DYI phone repairs are not worth it for a single repair, & haven't been for a long time. But this enables all the indy repairers to do professional repairs. The equipment prices are very reasonable for someone who is setting up a screen replacement business who will do multiple repairs per day. Being able to rent all the parts for $50 means a small business can rent all the equipment and test it out before buying.
Watching this video convinced me that if I'm paying somebody, I wouldn't want a repair done by someone who hasn't got this specialised tools. I got rear glass of an Android replaced at an Indy shop, and it was never the same again.
I would like to point out that for some people, the Genius Bar is a 5 hour drive. So the alternative is to ship the phone in for repair, or rent all this equipment.
I don’t get those people that says it’s too much tools for just a screen repair, well apple does just sell the parts individually, if you think that’s too much tools then just buy the replacement part and did it your way.
I repair iphones and learned a lot of stuff on getting best results in disassembly and repairing with classic tools. These are simply put out there to make it look like you have the right to repair (fully) when its not. Also, tip for magnetizing, rub tip of screwdriver on speaker magnet a bit and voila. Thank me later.
These tools offer a level of consistency that's near-perfect while at the same time negating any user error that may damage new replacement screens and customers' phones when doing multiple repairs which can cost ALOT OF MONEY. The price is honeslty a really great investment for any repair shop to maximize their bottom line. You are not buying these tools if you are doing just a single repair.
Using proper tools and procedures *significantly* reduces the chances of breaking a part whilst installing it using ghetto spudger and hair drier methods! Every broken part is a loss for the repair agent. Also, Apple rebate broken, returned parts removed during the repair.
You literally have to be an idiot not to do it this way.
As soon as I heard about Apple working on a self-repair-program, I said the parts will be only a few dollars less then letting Apple repair it. I was right.
As someone who has been repairing Apple products for a number of years I was happy to see the repaire kit now available. But heres the facts, I have used this setup from Apple several times and can assure you that the screen repair will only take 30 minutes. I can also say that iFixit does have good repaire instructions and some great tools but the parts they sell are not the same quality that Apple will sell you. But lets face the facts unless you have a background in electronic repair let the pros do it. If you don't and you mess up your phone you get the pleasure of buying a new one. The Right to Repair people wanted this and now they have it but remember this equipment is designed for people that know what they are doing.
Yeah, this has got to be a compliance thing. It's hard to say whether this is a cynical maneuver on their part to comply with the law in the most inconvenient way possible, or if it's just them trying to cover their legal bases by making sure that the repair kits produce (theoretically, if you do it correctly) the same results as if you had Apple do it in the store. Apple is resourceful enough that I'm sure that they could come up with a much simpler and equally effective method for doing the same repairs, but I'm sure that would have taken months if not years of R&D and research to figure out, and they probably needed to meet compliance a lot sooner than that. I doubt there will be a serious demand for kits to repair your own iPhones, so I really doubt that they're gonna make this any simpler. I mean... in the end, they're probably right, it's just easier, better, and quicker to let Apple fix it for you. People like to complain about their rights, and lawmakers sometimes respond, but many times the right to do something doesn't necessarily mean it's practical, or even a good idea to do that thing that you so wanted the right to do!
I was predicting this when all the Right-to-repair tards kept sobbing for genuine parts. THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA THAT STRICT STANDARDS LIKE ISO 9001 EXIST.
It is not possible for a multi-billion dollar international corporation to replace a fucking resistor like Louis Rossmann does. They cannot and will not ever endorse these types of repairs.
How could a company be consistent if they charged for A+ repairs in their stores, but also offered a way for you to botch a repair at home with a hair dryer and tweezers? How the fuck would they then even justify in-house repairs if people could say "but it only takes a hair dryer and tweezers"?
I aplaud Apple and how they resolved this. You want to repair your screen? Well, you'd better be fucking willing to become a screen repair technician.
Malicious compliance is a thing, and sounds like a perfectly Apple thing to do when forced to do something. As others have put it, this feels like Apple intentionally trying to make it seem hard and expensive to make people not want to repair stuff on their own, so they can then argue against Right to Repair legislation that is currently heavily targeting them among other infamously anti-repair corporations like John Deere.
I wouldn’t say equally. I work in manufacturing. If the engineers thought they could build cheaper fixtures and get the same results with the same failure rate, they would. Apple likely has a not so insignificant number of these kits across the world. Sure someone can get the I fixit setup to work. I’ve fixed many phones over the years, but rarely do they ever feel oem again. I certainly wouldn’t take them near water.
I don’t think they could engineer a cheaper solution, with the same effectiveness, and not lose money.
@@Cyber_Akuma em. No. All these tools are required to properly fix the device.
Yea this makes sense, Apple os saying “you want to do it, do it right” and when you realize its not easy you just take it in.
I don’t think this is designed to “fail” tho
That Apple kit is worth it for that machine to remove the screen, it's 1000 times easier then a heat sack and a sucker cup and guitar picks, hoping you don't crack your screen if your trying to replace a battery!
This is actually quite reassuring. It reminds me that if I send my phone to an authorised repair place it gets done properly with the correct tools, rather than some bloke in the back room with a suction cup.
I’d rather have my phone repaired by a bloke with a suction cup. Apple techs give you a repaired phone with stripped screws. Happened to me.
Given your videos show you as "some bloke in the back room," that's amusing.
@@RobertRory yup, if I’m going to pay for a repair I’d expect it to be done properly. If I’m doing it for free, then I can be as dodgy as I like 😆
I recently changed a screen on an iPhone 8 Plus. I used a hair dryer in place of the heaty boy and a suction cup. Worked like a charm. Apple is totally making this overly complicated to discourage people from repairing things themselves.
As some people have commented here, the adhesive used in the iPhone 12 and 13 screens are much stronger, probably to achieve their better water resistance, and so just using a hair dryer will sometimes not be enough--some people commenting here said they tried removing iPhone 12 and 13 screens using the same methods and heat they used to remove screens on older iPhones, and they shattered some of the screens on these newer iPhones.
I do that every day in 45 min or less lol…
That’s also because I’ve been trained by apple to do it and have several repairs under my belt. But yeah it sucks at times .
And those are the same tools we use at the Apple Store
Glad customers get to know the struggle as well 😂
Unfortunately iFixit parts and tools are not that great. Batteries usually don't last very long, displays are good but still you get important display message and their display seal is really not waterproof as it should be. For that kind of money I would expect more.
Not to mention most of the screens I’ve got from them are nowhere near as good as OEM - and I am not even that picky, but it’s obvious to even a simpleton that something is off.
@@digital4282 That is correct, yes. Those screens are not that shitty as ones from ebay or aliexpress but nowhere near as good as those originals. So if I can buy only screen, preprogramed for my iPhone directly from Apple, that is something great for me. Especially since we don't have Apple Store here in Czech Republic and if you opt for unauthorized service, for that kind of money you get replacement screen in iFixit shitty quality. So well done Apple!
Technically, Apple never makes screens themselves. Louis Rossmann already pointed this out.
Apple just buys them in bulk from a contractor specializing in making screens for devices (notably: Samsung Display Solutions or BOE, depending on phone model).
The same contractor can, and will, also sell the same screens to any other vendor.
The difference here is quality control. Apple specifically orders AAA+ grade stock (meaning, all their parts are subject to rigorous testing process individually), while other resellers got A grade stock when they get lucky or just happen to be willing to pay more, or, in most cases, B grade stock (basically all the discards from other quality control stages which _at least seem_ to work). The manufacturer is happily selling them because, you know, it's more profitable than just yeeting them out, but the average alternative part market suffers.
Interesting video and it was nice to see the process. I heard Quinn from snazzylabs say in his video that they’re basically selling the parts at a loss, this happens with their Genius repairs too. I feel like that even though it’s $7 more when all is said and done, you do have the advantage of not having to drive to an Apple Store which for some people is good because they live many hours away from one, so they’d be saving likely over $7 in gas especially right now. Quinn also brought up that the cost to ship the repair tools likely barely covers shipping. So honestly it’s hard for Apple to sell them for less. Plus you get a proper water resistant seal which is worth a bit more peace of mind compared to if you just repaired it without the press.
The toolkit is certainly shipped at a loss, 75lbs in 2 boxes anywhere in the country for $49 is definitely good, my issue is that it brings total pricing over the Genius Bar level, and that the repair can be performed just as well with simple, less expensive tools. The press applies constant pressure for 30 seconds, you can achieve the same results by placing some books on the phone
@@lukemiani What did you expect? For Apple to provide an el-cheapo version? DIY is RARELY about saving money. These tools are fantastic for fly by night students who want to make a few bucks fixing phones. And those tools are relatively inexpensive, to be honest... probably BECAUSE they're the same one they're making for their stores. It would probably cost Apple the same as these higher priced tools due to lower volume... and people would complain anyhow.
Apple isn't going to invest time and money into making custom tools for DIYers.
Oh they are not making a loss at all. Of course it's just estimates, but let's take the iPhone 12 Pro screen for example. It's estimated production cost is around 70$. Let's say they're even wrong by 50$ and that the actual price is somewhere around 120$. The screen is 236$ after returning your old screen. Even in that scenario they are still making around 115$ per screen. And even if we add shipping all the way from China to your doorstep it's still around 105$. There is no way Apple is making a loss on these repairs, it's most likely a marketing coy to make people feel better about their generosity. And first and foremost, Apple is marketing company. That is what they really do best.
iFixit having some tools is irrelevant. Using those tools, especially by someone who doesn't know what they are doing will lead to a phone often more damaged than when it started. The parts they offer are also not equivalent to Apple Genuine parts (apples fault yes, but thats a separate issue).
iFixit is cheaper because they're sending you knockoff parts.
Apple is sending out the tools to do it right, and consistently, especially by a novice.
For example, no screen repair done by anyone without the proper press can be considered even remotely water resistant any more. Apple give the correct tool to achieve the water resistance.
That’s what I don’t understand about these kind of videos - sure, the screen is expensive, but it’s also OEM and not something someone in Shanghai scraped up off the floor and refurbished. Could Apple make the price of the screen less? I’m almost certain they could. Could they make the repair simpler? Maybe, but at what cost? Simpler doesn’t always mean better. I applaud that Apple even tried this, and it’s a start in the right direction if they can get the cost down to some kind of reasonable price, which I’d bet would be likely further in the future, as if you look at the BOM the screen isn’t too far off of what they are already charging.
@@digital4282 Before this program people would have sold their left nut to get the same equipment, and manuals apple use to do their phones. Now you can buy the whole thing for a grand and wah wah wah, mostly from people not actually doing repairs.
Truly a no win situation.
Agreed. Not knocking ifixit (i have used their products many time for my diy), but this is 100% true.
You don’t need apples tools to restore the water resistance. Horribly incorrect.
@@RolandKoller90 You need the proper tools to do it with any degree of assurance. Just because you manually apply the adhesive and snap the screen back on does not mean it has fully sealed water tight.
All of these parts are designed to replace screens at scale. For a home user, its the equivelant of having one of those chest hight multi-stage multifunction copiers for printing a few mages a month.
Or one of those industrial shipping container fridges when you just freeze some soups every once in a while.
How can you argue that these tools and machines aren't necessary? They were designed specifically to accomplish a task easily, efficiently and most important, properly. Can you bust your way into an iPhone, absolutely, but I want my $1000 device repaired the way it meant to be repaired. I think this is a great program. Expensive? Yea, probably, but it's Apple and when you buy an Apple product you should just accept that.
Assuming your $1000 device does break down, how often do you need the tools to do those self-repair? Once every 2 to 4 years? Its just not practical to rent these tools just to repair one phone. And the costs of the parts plus tools plus your labor plus your time is not going to be very worth it to do so.
@@JCTY299 Maybe not for you. Not everyone nickels and dimes everything. I've purchased 3 Apple cloths. I'm sure you will tell me they aren't worth it, but they are to me. What exactly do you want Apple to do, just give everything away? I find their pricing and repair costs, etc., to be quite fair. Noone forces you to buy Apple. If you can't afford it or don't want to spend the money, don't buy Apple. It's quite simple.
@@JeffCD77 You had me at I purchased three Apple cloths
@@rossmanngroup just leave
"they way it meant to be repaired", I don't even want to get started on how that statement is wrong in a hundred different ways...
The take that everyone is missing here is the people that don't want to deal with the time and faff to get to the nearest Apple store or AASP. This would also be great for enterprises that have dozens or hundreds of the the same model and can rent the equipment once and replace a ton of parts.
When Sam said that he believed that because it was Apple it would only take 30 minutes, that says everything you need to know about the cult Apple has created. And this comes from an Apple eco user. Kudos to you Luke for keeping it real. Thanks.
Honestly as someone who is more comfortable around larger devices like laptops, these tools are definitely not for me. But neither is reparing my phone myself. If I take it to the Apple Store, I can go hang at the mall and enjoy myself while they fix my phone, and if I do it myself, I can't do that. So I think even if I could repare my phone, it's more fun to just take it to have someone else do it. I can make it a date with myself, and there's really no downside. Apple really does make it easy to get things done through them. It may be expensive, but at least you're not the one wasting your time
Yup. I'm a pretty good repair tech (I got started some time in the 1980s), and I could easily use all the tools in this video, but when my iPhone 6s needed a new battery last year, I took it to a local Apple Store at a mall and had them do the work for something like $49 plus tax. They told me when it would be ready to pick up later in the afternoon. While I waited, I walked around the mall, and returned to the store when they said it would be ready. It worked out fine. But some people who don't live near an Apple Store or other repair shop might want to do the work themselves.
@@JohnMSawyer I hadn't thought of that
Sooo many good videos, only discovered you recently and I hope to see many more vids to come!
So theoretically a Repair Shop can buy this Equipment for 1000 dollars and then let customers order their own parts and help them repair at a lower cost than apple? (with original parts?)
Repair shop don't need these, seriously we don't use any of these.
By the time customers order their own parts....they would have paid a high price....and its not worth it for the shops to repair because what they earn is peanuts because they cannot exceed the total costs that the Genius Bar charges. There is absolutely no cost savings. In fact you probably pay more with your wallet AND your time.
For a self repair like this it is also important to consider people that don't live close to Apple stores and that may even have long shipping situations (mostly people living in remote areas) they don't always have the option to drive hours to get their phone fixed in person and don't want to be without their device for a week or two or more with long shipping times.
This brings back memories, when i was working as an Apple IOS technician, in a AASP company. I used all of the tools except the "heat pressing" tool which was introduced after i left. I remember everytime i shattered a screen with the suction cup tool to open the device, i had to contact Apple support for technician and all of that nonsense they wrote.
So I feel like there’s way too much overlook on how cheap these machines are. I’m an automotive tech, do you know know expensive specific model special tools, or hell, just a simple professional level socket set and a single ratchet, that’s $600 right there alone. These are soooooo cheap to repair phone after phone
for what they offer, they aren't cheap at all. There is tools to separate display panels from glass that cost that much. Or vacuum machines to get rid of air bubbles when you refurbish screens. The tools shown here are designed for people who have two left hands. I used these to see if I could perform a repair using only one hand. And yes, it was possible. So maybe these are even designed for people with disabilities.
You were correct in your previous video. There is legislation proposed code named "right to repair". Now, if that legislation becomes law, Apple is ahead of the game. The legislation does not say, it must be less expensive than either taking in the product (not all states have Apple Stores) or sending it in. It clearly is cheaper to take it in. I had my display cracked, on the last day of my Apple Care+, so I immediately took it to an Apple Store and what they did was ask me if I have a current backup. I did, I brought it on a USB flash drive. The Genius Bar guy, went to a drawer pulled out a "new" phone - it could have been refurbished and asked it I wanted to restore it myself or he could do it for me. I asked him to do it for me and he restored my phone with a Mac. It was working perfectly. I signed a form, on an iPad, walked out without paying anything extra. They didn't repair it right then and there. They replaced it. Now, they have Apple Care+ that you pay monthly (on some devices) and I called Apple and I spoke to the manager at my favorite Apple store, and confirmed that as long as you keep up the monthly payments, you're covered. So, I said that if I keep that up for 10 years and it stops working, as long as you pay it, we will repair it or replace it, at our option. So, technically they would be following the law, if it becomes law. I doesn't mean it is better for consumers, it just follows what may become law. I spoke to several congress people of the House and Senate, and they said that they would pass it. It would be sent to President Biden and he could veto it, but congress has enough votes to override the President, or he could sign it into law or ignore it and after some time, it would become law. In other words, it will happen. The other option of taking it in is far better, but you can repair it yourself if that is what you want to do. It's not going to fail, it will be the least chosen path.
This video was in that case designed to be clickbait. Pure clickbait.
The tools are simply provided if you want/need them, and you can pay extra for them. You don't *have* to rent them. They provide you with the means and tools that the genius bar uses, if you don't have those yourself. For most people who want to repair their iPhone, we DO have the means and we don't need their guide/tools. It's not an "if you want to repair iPhones, you have to use this" but they provide those things if you want them, as an EXTRA. 'Sides, not everyone is lucky enough to have an Apple store nearby. My nearest one is like 200km away, and with today's gas prices...
The tools are that expensive 'cause they're not meant for an individual to own them. These are overbuilt to endure a lot of usage and to be used in a predictable, repeatable manner by multiple people. At the genius bar, or when renting them out many many times. Makes sense, no? These tools aren't supposed to survive ONE Sam or Luke, but to survive a thousand.
The parts could've been cheaper, absolutely, but imagine spending 80 bucks on JUST THE GAS on a roadtrip to the Apple store, and then having to get your screen replaced. Getting one in the mail and doing it yourself isn't a bad option then.
You know whats insane about it. You cant use it to fix a phone older than 3 years or replace the charging port. No point to it what so ever.
This is apple's malicious compliance take on self repair.
LOVING YOUR BACKGROUND MUSIC
FYI you can magnetize a screw driver bit by rubbing it on a magnet
How to magnetize the screwdriver? Just hold it on a magnet for a few seconds :D
I worked for sprint and did apple repairs we used everything here except the screen heating tool. Its definitely overkill. The big thing is the MacBook for calibrating the screen after the repair. But I’m surprised they give the end user all these tools for repairs.
the most insane sh*t is the weights to calibrate MacBook trackpads. I lol'ed so hard when I saw them.
You know what makes sense? Just ordering say they screen kit only. This program is for tech savvy people. All these videos trashing the program are clearly after something else. Which should be address separately. The fact that we can get genuine parts is amazing.
Try to buy a charge port or power button flex from it if it's for tech savvy people.
Thank you for the video! I think some aspects are missing… One fact is for example the self repair movement in some countries. Apple can now use the new program in order to argue against these interest groups enforcing self repair. Now Apple offers „something“… Apple offers something and so nobody can say that they are not delivering…some countries tried to put pressure on Apple in order to change the current situation! Same with power adapters… in EU we had discussions of dozens of tons of different power adapters which are produced… Apple solved the issue by separating phones and power adapters… smart solutions to problems… 😉😉😉
Agreed, This is not for everyone and it’s not to be a cost saver. But there are a few key places where this is handy. Not everyone has a short drive to an apple store / Genius Bar. That can burn a day or two depending on the time to repair just shuffling back and forth to the store. And the other is a privacy / security concern - in a regulated industry (like hipaa ) the device shouldn’t be out of your sight. Something you don’t get at the Genius Bar when they effect repairs.
If you do have a Genius Bar available definitely go that route - life is too short to be without a device integral to our everyday life
.
I don't care that apple's tools or parts are pricey. I don't necessarily even care that they make things harder than they need to be to repair.
What I care about is the anti-competitive practices like blocking other companies from selling compatible parts, and serialization of their own parts. That's the big issue to me.
You forgot to mention that one of the huge benefits of doing it the apple way is that all of the features of the screen will work after the replacement (True Tone, Face ID etc…) which is not the case when you do it with Ifixit or other third party manufacturers
I love how people have nothing better to do than complain. When Apple did not provide anything at all people complained now that Apple provides all the tools and parts people complain that it’s too difficult or not cheap enough.
Definitely your best video to this date! Sam killed it!! Can’t wait to see his video!! Thanks, Luke!
The main goal of tools like these is to achieve consistent results. That's why they're used in workshops around the world. I can't speak to these tools SPECIFICALLY, but it's true for tools in general.
as a huge iFixit fan, I dont think the iopener is enough for IP12/13 adhesive. You will need a heatgun
Honestly this a good thing that they started this program at least they give you tools to do the repair ! And rent them
People who live far away from an Apple Store may do this? Like if it costs you a tank of gas to get to a genius bar you may end up coming out ahead financially by doing your own repair. But still, this is pretty ridiculous.
Fun fact the bin that the bits came in was my third grade pencil case they still have it to this day I know the exact make and model 😂😂
Watching you first, then iupdate because honestly, you're better. Don’t tell sam I said that
The dolly zoom at 11:38 deserves an oscar
"If you love yourself, don't do this.." great quote - and overall this was very informative - thnx
216 dollars for the oven is NOTHING. When I saw that I instantly thought 2000 bucks, maybe a lot more.
How can a company be just so cynical and get away with it every single time?
It's because so many people are vain, and stupid, and only see the shiny wow factor that Apple puts on their products. IMHO Apple is more of a lifestyle brand that happens to sell tech stuff, than it is a straight tech company, as they make more money off their services than their hardware at this point. If more people actually cared, and woke up, they would see how horrible the compan really is in a lot of ways, they might not be able to get away with this kind of stuff.
People have been complaining about Apple and "Right to Repair" forever. They have finally given in and now people are complaining about the program. Enough already!
honestly!
12:13 bold of you to assume I have an apple store within 30 minutes of driving near me
This would be perfect for someone who does repairs as a business
Your Blazer would make Herb Tarlick proud.
After working for an AASP I think a lot of the points you made aren’t very considerate of what apples doing. People wanted access to tools and manuals and they got it apple is not obliged to changing their manuals to make it easier for newbies. Instead I think we should talk about how they only did it for the newer iPhone models and and haven’t released anything for macs. The pricing for parts is also very similar to what they are for AASP’s at least and tools are priced similarly as well, as far as OOW (out of warranty) repairs go this is the same thing that Apple stores and service providers get access to.
Agreed, people literally wanted exactly this, and they are still complaining
∂going it yourself is NEVER cheaper. It's about personal satisfaction. Same thing with woodworking. You can build your own table but you can buy a table for much cheaper, especially taking into consideration the time it takes.
Does this allow you to have TrueTone too? Or does TrueTone come already on the new screen before it's installed to the phone??
Not everyone has an Apple Store or a Genius Bar in their area. Honestly, we are all spoiled living in big cities.
Does Apple make the parts available without renting the tools?
This really is the equivalent the loaning a mechanic shop to a person who wants to replace a tire... Yes, trained professionals who replace hundreds of tires a day use a shop, but no a regular person doesn't need it for a single repair...
The analogy is if you wanted to change a tire and iFixit sold you a fucking tire spudger and a new tire. You can do it, but it is retarded to expect normal people to be able to do it without major problems. iFixit doesn't give a fuck if you screw up your phone. Apple does, and they provide everything for a perfect replacement, though they can't stand behind your shoulder.
i magnetize bits with iPhone speakers, it’s a little bit weak but useful
Thank you for your integrity on this
I appreciate the fact that you never use foul language. Thankfully I do not listen to Sam ever again. Zero respect.
11:40 Many people who own Apple devices don't live a reasonable distance from a Genius Bar. The two closest ones to me are about 2 hours and 3 hours drive away from where I live. With current gas prices, that extra $7 is a steal.
At 3:17, Luke Miani disarms the bomb
This makes sense, if you think that Apple is trying to discourage us from repairing things ourselves. They are giving us the option to tick a regulatory box. They are offering it just to say that you can do it but have made the process so difficult that you won’t do it. I have repaired my DJI drone a few times, so I know I probably could do this with enough patience. I still wouldn’t because the cost savings isn’t there. I personally keep AppleCare on my phones for peace of mind and to make Apple fix something if I break it.
I imagine this makes sense for people who are far away from an Apple Store, so if you need to travel 6 hours it might be worth it to do the labor yourself.
Haha. People complain so much and want self-repair and then when apple gives them self-repair options, it’s too hard 😂
I use my 3d printer heated bed to heat the gun loose, than I scratch it all out. add the adhesive and with the clamps I just let it all for a couple of hours to dry the new parts
Thank you, Luke, for the HILARIOUS video!
This is to counter sues about fact that apple make hardware that is not repairable. They say now "Hey we have kits that allow anyone to fix their apple products at home!"
That’s not a lot. That’s a dream machine for repair enthusiasts.
It’s all about repeatability to maintain the same quality and after training anyone can keep repeating the same repair
Other manufacturers self repair program just includes selling you a screen. Apple ships you the whole ass repair store.
“ Good morning, Mr. Miani, your mission if you should decide to accept it, is to repair your Iphone with no knowledge of how to use the Apple equipment. If caught or killed by the equipment, Tim Cook will disavow any knowledge of your existence. This memory card will self destruct in 5 seconds. Good luck, Luke. “🚧🚑💥
Apple doesn’t want people fixing their own phones, they’re making it as difficult as possible.
do you have shares in masterworks??
This is good for a repair shops want to do genuine repairs, as they can buy the tools and then use them
I can see why people feel like buying Apple products is like being in an abusive relationship.
I have seen other videos about this that say that you have to agree to some very invasive terms. You do not mention this. Please explain. Love your videos and I am a subscriber. Many thanks ,Luke.
this only makes sense if you're an independent repair shop and want to use apples own tools and parts, if you buy the equipment and use it to repair lots of iPhones as a business and get the experience needed to do it right, then these tools will make the repair pretty much perfect. it's not for the DIY person to repair one phone out of warranty. The catch is that these tools only repair the newest devices, not the ones that most DIY'ers will repair which are older devices no longer under warranty.
Last time I looked the nearest Apple repair store for me was 3.5 hours each way. Granted, I live in the middle of nowhere, but this might make sense for some people. On the other hand iFixit would probably be a better idea for most.