The Per Se Wine List - Attorney Somm's Ordering Strategy
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- Опубліковано 8 жов 2022
- In this video, John Jackson, DipWSET a/k/a Attorney Somm reviews The Per Se wine list and identifies the wines that he would order under three different scenarios: (1) the most cost effective wine selections from the Per Se by-the-glass wine list; (2) the wines Attorney Somm would order with a budget of $500 per person; and (3) the wines Attorney Somm would order with unlimited financial resources! #perse #persewinelist
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Thank you for the organization of content, it's always good to have the insight of what to order.
My pleasure! Thank you for watching. Very glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent information!! I never used to review wine lists before going into ⭐️⭐️but this process is takes the anxiety away… great content.. Very informative. Thank you
Thanks very much! Yes, I have found that is very helpful to study in advance and it also prevents my dinner guests from being annoyed at me. 😁 It is also a good idea to have a couple alternates in mind if you order by the bottle since it is not uncommon for lists that have only 1-2 bottles of top wines left to be out of them. Cheers!
A lot of the prices are out of my range but I really appreciate your considered opinions. It's what I enjoy most about your channel. No nonsense, straightforward opinions on what you like. It give us noobs a chance to learn what good wine is all about. Many thanks for your efforts making these videos.
Thanks very much! Very glad that you enjoy the videos. Appreciate the positive feedback. I definitely try to provide recommendations at a variety of price points since I have viewers with a wide range of budgets. Cheers! 👍🍷
Thank you!Excellent infomation .👏👏👏
My pleasure! Thanks very much for watching, and the kind words!
All excellent recommendations! Very detailed and thorough with pros and cons clearly explained. Interesting, informative, insightful, and reliable. If there’s anyone we can and should trust in topics like this, it is most definitely you.
The markups are expectedly exorbitant in Per Se but if one doesn’t mind then I say it would be so lovely to enjoy the Grüner Veltliner from Wachau (one of my favorite wine regions), the Trimbach, or the Château de Beaucastel while savoring the spectacular views of Central Park and Columbus Circle. Congratulations on this stellar video - superbly written and eloquently delivered, as always. Santé, John!
Merci beaucoup, Margaux! Truly appreciate the thoughtful comment! Yes, I think those selections would work well. Very pleased that you enjoyed the video! Hope that you have a wonderful week!
@@AttorneySomm You’re welcome, John. Hope that you have a terrific week!
I’ll take the R Lopez de Heredia all day everyday along w the Billecart! That is a bit more than I’d wanna spend for Beaucastel but then again, if you’re doing three michelin star dining, price probably doesn’t matter 😂😜
Thanks for weighing in! Yes, enjoy Lopez de Heredia and Billecart very much! Yes, it would be nice if the markups were a bit lower, especially on the reds.
John, very thorough explanation of how to approach the Per Se wine list. I am not familiar with some of the vintners you mentioned, but I will be sure to check them out. Thank you. - Ed
Thanks very much! Definitely some interesting choices on the list, but absolutely better to get them retail. 👍🍷
John, I have watched all your videos from the inception of your UA-cam account, and it seems this one takes the cake. I appreciate your thoroughness and detailed explanation of each wine and their prices, and why you would choose them. Sancerre, Chablis, and Grüner Veltliner are excellent choices by the glass. This reminds me, I need to drink more of the latter!! The 2011 Rioja sounds like the perfect choice by the glass, while the Trimbach Riesling would be an outstanding wine to pair with a multitude of food including spicy dishes. Thank you so much for doing all the hard work! Well executed! Bravo, John!
Thanks so much, Gina! Truly appreciate the support and kind feedback! I was very impressed with the by the glass menu. That could very well be the best way to proceed even with a larger budget as there are a number of attractive choices and the markups are not as high as for the bottles. Cheers!
@@AttorneySomm I don’t mind the idea of “by the glass”, this way it gives me the opportunity to explore a lot more wines. This has always been my philosophy, unless there’s an extraordinary bottle that I want to enjoy as a “standalone” wine.
@@FoodiewineloverGina Yes, it works very well when the by the glass list is well conceived and has reasonable pricing!
@@AttorneySomm I agree on both counts, John!
Damn, did not know the markups are this big in American high-end restaurants... Thanks for the recommendations and great video btw, would love to see a video on "cheap" ageworthy Bourgogne PN!
Thank you. Yes, the markups are extremely high here. I did this Burgundy video a few months ago. The $50 is US retail, so your prices may be lower. Cheers! 👍🍷
ua-cam.com/video/HuYdShF__nQ/v-deo.html
Another excellent interesting video John, thank you 😊. You know my dining style and I’m no stranger to fine dining, but 4 to 500% plus markup, wow. All the best my friend🍷😎
Thanks, Doug.! Much appreciated. Completely agree. That is very hard to swallow. 😀 I'd be inclined to use corkage and probably order some of the glasses, which have much more reasonable markups.
your videos always give very well thought advises! ...but again I'm absolutely shocked by the prices for wine in the US... even at the best restaurants in here such numbers would be impossible
Thank you! As an attorney I tend to analyze everything extensively. 😁 Yes, the markups on wine in the US are very unfortunate - especially where corkage is not allowed or is prohibitively priced.
Great video! I have watched several times as I have an upcoming reservation at Per Se. One question I have is how do these options compare to the wine pairing? I am wondering for a party of 4 what the best option would be. Thanks.
Thanks very much! I hardly ever choose the wine pairings. You can almost always do better on your own. I just take the amount the pairings would cost and use that to buy bottles. You can can better wine that way and more of it. Or at Per Se just buying buy the glass each course would be better.
Me third per se option but may not be able to eat all food! Love your video sir….you are walking book for wines!
Yes maybe the 5-course option might work best!
Thanks very much! Definitely enjoy browsing these lengthy lists and trying to come up with the best options. Hope you are having a great time in Napa!
@@AttorneySomm
Preparing for your visit at my house... collecting good vintage wines so you can educate me on wine... Love to have you !
@@sanjaypatelmd4669 I would enjoy that very much! Hopefully we can make it work soon. Cheers!
This is a really fun video.... let’s do one for us commoners at a garden variety steakhouse ! Including a desert wine!
dessert
Thank you! There have been other steakhouse suggestions too. I’ll add it to my short list! Appreciate the suggestion and the feedback. 👍🍷
Could you please make a video with a more approachable restaurant that normal people can go to for a big splurge. Like maybe 1 Michelin star or 15 Gault & Millau. Frankly as a European I find the prices at these place a little bit sickening, however I am aware that Americans/British people are bit more used to this. Also I think it would be more useful to most people and teach us how to approach a more normal winelist.
Edit: I realise my comment sounded a bit ungrateful; Your content and presentation is excellent and I still very much enjoyed the video, my issue was more with the restaurant itself I hope obviously.
Thanks very much. Appreciate the feedback! My thought was that people may need the most help at these restaurants given the huge markups, but I’ll definitely consider expanding the concept. Of course, the recommendations would also allow people to buy these wines retail and you could get most of them for much better pricing in Europe. Cheers!
@@AttorneySomm Thanks for listening! Don't think for a second that I haven't looked up all these wines on retail hehehe :)
@@itsmederek1 Excellent! Glad to hear it!
@@ms_brizee1631 I know about Troys Tasting room and I like his videos. I have seen many wine channels explain how they would tackle wine lists as it is a popular topic so I don't like you suggesting that Attorney Somm is copying TTR. For me TTR is more entertainment and AS is much more educational. Also we should consider ourselves lucky that we have multiple experts to rely on for these topics.
@@itsmederek1 Thank you, my friend. Yes, I approach this topic from my own perspective. That is very common on UA-cam for everything from wine to phone reviews.
Billecart-Salmon, Trimbach + Beaucastel would be good enough for me. Including, of course, a glass of Sauternes (an Yquem '07, say) with the pud and a Taylor's '63 with the cheese.
On a serious note, I find wine prices like that slightly obscene. I am a fairly decent cook and would rather have friends round for dinner and put my own wines on the table.
Those all sound terrific to me as well! I agree re the pricing. I’m a huge corkage fan for that reason when dining out. Also have lots of meals at home or with friends like you describe.
Can you do a wine list recommendation for Burns in Tampa? I’m sure you’ve been asked before. But I thought I’d ask.
Thanks very much. I'll certainly give that some thought. I've been there a couple times and enjoyed it, but haven't reviewed the list recently. Cheers!
It’s a huge list, but a lot of fun!
Love your content, keep it up.
@@christianhaymond5878 Thanks very much! Cheers!
@@christianhaymond5878 Thanks! Yes, took a while to get thru this one!
I was shocked by the list of Keller Riesling prices. By luck I found a local wine shop selling a 2012 bottle of Keller "Hubacker " for 120 Euro this year and reading about the 2020 for 1300 on the menu had me gasp that I just drank a 3 Star restaurant level wine for that kind of money.
Yes, those Keller prices are particularly outrageous! And they are all so young. Sounds like an excellent buy! Very well done! 👍🍷
At the beginning for some reason I was believing that it was bottle prices. It vanished quicker than the perlage in cheap sparkling 😢
Yes the glass prices here are likely even a bit higher than bottle prices in Europe, unfortunately. That is a big problem.
Several times you mentioned that the reds did not have enough age on them and thus, they would be too tannic. What do you mean by young precisely and how old do you usually like your wines to be in restaurants and when you open a bottle at home?
It varies by wine, but I do enjoy more tertiary descriptors and complexity that come with age. For Bordeaux, that means I’m generally drinking 2005 or earlier. The Bandol needs at least 10 and ideally more. I tend to prefer burgundy with 10 or more too. Admittedly that varies by personal preference.
Comparing restaurant wine lists and pricing (US vs. Europe) could be interesting content. It’s a shame how overpriced restaurant wines are (3x to 5x over retail) in the US. It would be interesting to see the differentiation in wine culture and restaurant sensibilities in Europe (especially Italy & France).
Thank you. Completely agree. Certainly an interesting idea! I was in Spain in June and would definitely add Spain to the mix as well. Very reasonable prices at most restaurants there.
Hey mate, here in Germany, you can be lucky if the costs of a bottle are around 2,5 times of the market price. In general, it’s is around 3 to 4 times of the market price though. By the way, when I went to France, I was very delighted to see that they also have half a bottle options in restaurants. Usually, we don’t have that in Germany :(
@@benb5916 Thank you for weighing in. 2.5 is not a bad markup! And prices of at least German wine are lower there than here too. The half bottles are fantastic!
@@AttorneySomm no worries mate. It goes both ways. In comparison to other countries, wines from the USA appear to be disproportionately more expensive than wines from other new world countries. Maybe it’s just me, but I always feel, I get more value out of a 25-50€ Euros Aussie Shiraz, Argentinian Malbec etc as I would get out of a Napa Cabernet.
@@benb5916 Yes, Napa has gotten very expensive. It is a challenge to find value there, although there are a few savvy buys to be had.
I completely understand that the wine in a restaurant is more expensive than buying it in a shop (usually 3x more). But $28 for a glass of Bosconia is simply unbelievable! I just bought 6 bottles from the 2008 vintage for €21 each. Bearing in mind the tip - that's a 7-9x markup. Is this normal in the US?
In the US we have the 3-tier system with a markup at import, distribution and retail. Here that wine sells for $32-$40, depending on the retailer and the quantity purchased. Often wine BTG will sell for the price of the entire bottle in the US. So for this to sell for less than the price of a bottle is a bit more favorable than our typical experience. 300-400% markups are more customary, but there are outliers on both ends. That is one reason why corkage is so critical in the US.
I think you’ve made an error here - the Dhondt-Grellet is listed as Cramant, a Grand Cru village in the Côte des Blancs, Champagne. I think you have this confused with a crémant, which would not be from Champers. Anyway, the wine list is wrong also - while Dhont-Grellet have holdings in Cramant, they are based in the nearby Flavigny, and the grapes for the particular wine listed are actually from other Champagne villages. It is Champagne though, and Dhondt-Grellet are an excellent grower-producer.
Thanks for weighing in and sharing your insights. I'll have to try to locate this Champagne (in the retail channel). Cheers.
@@AttorneySomm Cheers, if you do find it perhaps look out for their Les Terres Fines or higher. Les Terres Fines is substantially better than the one that was on the list (Dans un Premier Temps…), and not much more expensive
@@andrewjohnstone7172 Much appreciated! 👍🍾
Cote Rotie--I might reach beyond the price point for the 2015 Rostaing "Blonde"(2016 not ready), ordered at the beginning, and decanted. The La Landonne should still taste like Concrete.
Chateauneuf-- I'd go with the 2016 St Prefert (EDIT): Giraud, same decanting. Almost a bargain at 3X retail, and within the Threshold of Pain. Your choices may be tired. Agreed on Whites.
"Corkage for Not on the List". My ex-Bro in law brought a 1970 Margaux to an upscale restaurant in the early 90s, but couldn't open it because they had a 1974(terrible vintage) on the list.
Thanks very much for weighing in! Good suggestions. I had the Beaucastel not long ago and it was still showing well. Yes, always interesting how they interpret if it's on the list - same vintage or any wine from that producer.
@@AttorneySomm--The Giraud has a different blend than the Donjon. 60 GN/40 Mourvedre vs usually all GN.
I had a 2004 Pegau not long ago, it was nowhere close to when I had it in 2010/11(91 Pts vs 95-96 Pts). I agree that Beaucastel ages better.
@@ronmcmartin4513 Yes, I think the Beaucastel is higher in Mourvedre too. I had a 98 Pegau Cuvee Laurence earlier this year that was stunning.
@@AttorneySomm--I hated MV(tasted metallic), until I had some 90 Beaucastel Hommage Perrin(100% MV, 100 pts) in about 1996. Still not a fan of Tempier or Tavel Rose.
Haven't tasted the 1998 Donjon Cuvee Grenache in 10+ years, but that was great, too(95/96 pts). Huge, balanced, ripe, structured GN. 95 Laurence, too oaky.
I'd choose 2001/07 over 2004/06 if it were on the list, but as I've said before, I prefer younger CdP(5-9 years) over old. 98 great ripeness/structure. 2003 was too prune-y. I had a taste of 2003 Pegau Da Capo, and I thought it was cartoonish(compare 1995 & 96 Chablis or White Burg after 8-10 years). Yet, I loved the 90s/early 00s Australians.
@@ronmcmartin4513 I’m with you on the Rose, but do enjoy Tempier with age.
High end restaurant wine lists usually represent poor values. For value, I look for more obscure wine regions or producers.... This is fun though !!! Actually, I have brought my own wines from my cellar (always make sure that it is not something they have) and pay the up to $50 / bottle corkage.
Thank you. I agree with you on both counts. I’m a huge proponent of corkage and use it frequently. I also order wines from Lebanon, etc. Per Se’s list did not have much of that, however.
The corkage fee is currently $200 per bottle.
@@jimklemens5018 ouch!
Prices are insanne!
Agreed. Such a shame. French Laundry’s prices are even worse.
Love the review but my advice is to save some money and crack a rare bottle at home. Restaurant mark up is so horrendous even if you can get some vintage. I just popped a bottle of Alion 1996 which is great on its own but a perfect partner with food and I'm quite capable of putting together a good meal. WT
Thanks very much for weighing in! Yes, that is definitely something I do as well. Glad to hear that the Alion was showing well! Hope you had a terrific weekend.
Haha good approach mate. The best way to enjoy wine is at home especially when you consider decanting, temperature of the wine etc. Plus, it’s not like as if we weren’t able to produce some solid meal that complements our food ourselves, which you already stressed too. So, when I go to a restaurant, I really just want to focus on the food and forget a bit about wine. If I want to have an awesome wine experience, I go into a wine bar or I cook some good food at home and have one of my own wines with it :)
I agree. I dont see why i should pay more than double for the wine and im good at cocking. Though at tastings it can be great when you taste your own wines and pay cork fee if its not too high.
@@nikolajkrarup8750 Yes, I certainly understand that approach and use corkage as often as possible. I wish the markups were not this extreme.
@@nikolajkrarup8750 agreed mate. And the amount you save is gonna be TERRIFIC in the long run. This in turn means you can treat yourself spending a bit more on wine you enjoy at home. So yeah, going to a restaurant is nice but I try to not focus too much on the wine experience there. When they have nice choices by the glass, cool , but it’s not a deciding factor for me to choose a restaurant or not. Also, some wines can be very much enjoyed by themselves and don’t always necessarily have to be paired with food :)
I think you might have given some false information, Dhont Grellet Cramant is Champagne, in fact Cramant is a Grand Cru Vineyards holding Village near Vertus
What happened you mixed up Cramant and Cremant
Thank you for weighing in and providing more information regarding the Cramant.
Thank you John, I enjoy this videos and your expertise. I would like to suggest a video about Bern’s steakhouse in Tampa. They have one of the US wine cellar at 600.000 bottles.
Every time I’m there I am overwhelmed by their selection and would love to hear your take and unique approach.
Keep up the good work.
@@rodsouza Thanks very much. I have been there a couple times. Certainly a very impressive selection! Appreciate the suggestion.
Do you taste anything?
Of course. All the time. I have numerous virtual tastings and winemaker interviews on my YT and also tasted the Aldi wines in that video.
I also did a number of tasting videos of celebrity wines and blind tasting videos with Tiffany Moon.
hmm I appreciate your content normally but this seems like a carbon copy of Troy's tasting room ... see ua-cam.com/video/AQGBaow8PjI/v-deo.html
His version has a bit more options and more humor but otherwise, it's exactly the same.
It is common for UA-camrs to give their own perspective on popular topics. Troy did a James Bond movie last week that was heavily inspired and included much of what I discussed in a video from 2 years ago. Konstantin Baum did a video on old port and V is for Vino and the Andre Mack did strikingly similar videos shortly thereafter. Just like with product reviews of cameras, etc. people like to hear different perspectives.
@@ms_brizee1631 Wow you are toxic. The YT wine community is way too small for people like you to be floating around in it.
To see what I would order on The French Laundry's wine list, please watch this video:
ua-cam.com/video/bEFAssx7rAc/v-deo.html
Very nice pic super congratulations 👏🎉 star ✨⭐ gift 🎁🧧
It is a video but thank you