I accidentally dropped a gen3 impact driver with a Forge 6.0 battery into a bucket of water, there was only 1/4” sticking out the top, it was in there for HOURS, I could not see it, and so did not know there was even a bucket for it to fall into. I pulled it out, squeezed the trigger, and water sprayed EVERYWHERE…. Still works just fine, I think it was totally SUBMERGED for 4 hours plus.
It will go bad in a few months I would guess. Takes a bit of time for the corrosion to do its job and destroy your tool but once it got seriously wet, that is usually what will happen. PCBs will corrode and it's game over for the tool.
It's funny some people would believe that Milwaukee didn't think about coating the contacts inside the battery. I'm certain that Milwaukee has heard of rain before.
You can't coat the contacts or you wouldn't have power. The circuit is coated because you don't want a short across positive and negative on the board.
@@douglasvine2516 Don't be so pedantic. Years ago when I use to make my own circuit boards I would coat the boards if I was using them outdoors. Of course the contacts are not coated. I misspoke in my original post.
I have at least $9000 worth of Milwaukee tools, and as an Electrician. I NEVER in my 19years of experience got my tools WET!!! I believe it's a great idea of the vents!
Sounds like you live in a desert. I also work as an electrician, and my tools get wet all the time. My current company uses Milwaukee and we've had no issues with them being wet, not yet gotten new forge batteries though.
There are certain jobs and locations where staying dry is impossible. I'm a mechanic and have used my tools in all conditions milwaukee holds up well from engine oil to lake water don't matter my milwaukees eat it up
Milwaukee added that proprietary coating to the inside components of the battery to shield it from shorting it out. Remember at Pipeline where they did the Alkaseltzer test? The one with the coating didn't fizz
It's a standard thing to conformal coat the circuit board in portable electronics that see harsh environments. The coating can be any number of adhesive materials that are tailored to their usage environment. Circuits inside key fobs are coated in the event you drop your keys in a puddle for example.
@@ToolReviewZone yah. Buddy lol. Great videos. Send me that 12 when you’re done soaking it with the hose and I’ll test it in some snow for you. Hahahah
regular retail is amazingly $10 LESS than the older 12ah HO 48-11-1812. $388 instead of $398. The thing is we rarely see the old ones at that regular anymore... usually on for $298. :)
Pouch cells have an advantage in flexibility, weight, and size but that’s about it. Pouch cells are less expensive to manufacture than tabless jelly roll cells. Thats why you see them all over the place, not because they perform better. Tabless cells run cooler, are more efficient and distributes power more evenly than its pouch cell cousin, charges faster, and has a longer lifespan than pouch cell packs. I dropped my gen 4 M18 impact driver off my mom’s 15 foot roof into her pool. Tool and battery still work just fine. Milwaukee already addressed this concern and told us getting water into the vents is nothing to worry about.
We need to know the number of cycles on each battery. Keep in mind that a new 12.0 might have 12-13Ah a 1yr old lite use 12.0 might be down 15-20% so only 9.6-10Ah. Keep in mind that m18 batteries are rated to lose 20% after 250-300 charge cycles if charged on a standard 1hr charger I'd expect them to die faster on a faster charger
I unconsciously always put a fan next to my battery chargers. I didn’t like how warm my batteries get when they are charged completely depleted. In a job, the fan died and was only charging on ambient in house temperature (I think the clients had their AC on 82). I noticed that charging times took longer than what I got used to. In some cases, when battery would be warm (high consuming tools like shop vac, leaf blower) it would not charge. Worst without the fan. So if you’re limited to a few batteries (because they are still expensive), try using a fan to blow on them when they’re charging. It will help a lot!
I don't use the rapid charger because it doesn't hold the charge as long as the og charger. So I made a custom 3 charger bank and used 12v fans to cool the batteries and electronics
Yeah, and I'm upset that my toaster isn't bathtub ready. Maybe you shouldn't expect things that don't claim to be "water friendly" to be. Quit taking your cordless tools with you while scuba diving ... there are cases made to use cameras underwater, if you don't have them, you will destroy your camera. They warranty against leaks ... and the case costs more than your camera does. In other words, they can replace your camera 3 times before they are hurting. It's almost as if people should just use their brain once in a while.
Great video as always my friend!! I’m guessing that this new tabless technology is an in between to regular cylindrical cells and pouches that also must cost less to build than the pouches. I am impressed with these tabless cells!
Tabless gives you similar Wattage output per cell without a significant increase in cost. The pouch cell batteries are usually custom cells, which is very expensive. The tabless cells are just a newer off the shelf component. So very easy and inexpensive for manufacturers to implement. That said they still don't offer the same longevity benefits of a pouch cell, and they can be very difficult to keep cool because you basically have a much larger cell with similar surface area, which is why I suspect Milwaukee has finally implemented active air cooling. Pouch cells have an enormous amount of surface area relatively, so while peak Wattage outputs are likely similar between the two, pouch cells will be able to maintain higher outputs for longer periods.
@@riba2233yup pouch cells are not magic guys, your phones and laptops all use pouch cells. Not exactly the paramount of longevity and durability. They do have advantages that power tool companies have finally learned to leverage, which are decreased size and weight and reduced resistance, but tabless cells reduce resistance as well, and are much cheaper.
the 6.0 doesnt have air cooling because they cant due to the pouch cells not because it doesnt need it. the cylindrical cells are able to be air cooled because theres space between them not all stacked into a block
I get around 45 mins with my previous style twelve 0's on my backpack vacuums. I also get about 45 mins of run time on the backback leaf blower using two 12.0 at a time. I picked up a bunch on sale when they were starting to come out with the newer ones.
I got all the new forge sizes and don't see an issue the 12 is a beast. Noticeably strongest and last forever even on high draw tools and it puts out great voltage even at the end of its life. The 6ah is a great power to weight battery though I like all 3 sizes though the fact the 8 and 12 have the cooling feature for fast charge is a big plus for me. When you use rapid chargers and are pushing your batteries heat build up becomes #1 concern.
Alright man. I did the test on my own 48-11-1812 (12Ah) with 2-3 charge cycles on a 48-59-1815 (dual bay Supercharger with only 1 BAT-RAY on it, same as your test). It took 46 min to get to blinking green, and 56.5 min to solid green. This is with a FULLY DRAINED BAT-RAY. I used a 2146-20 LED light to run it right down so the light was completely off, not just blinking to indicate a low BAT-RAY. I did the same test with a slightly used 12Ah BAT-RAY (8-10 charge cycles) and got 46 min to blinking green, and 58 min to solid green. Initially. this was slightly counterintuitive since the 2nd BAT-RAY should have slightly LESS capacity but then I remembered I went straight from the 2146-20 to the 48-11-1815 while the BAT-RAY was hot so it did not go into SUPERCHARGE mode until about 6 minutes.
@user-ld6wo4rv8h appreciate the feedback brother man. Now tell me, just how boring was it to drain those and watch them recharge. It's been a horrible week for me 🤣
@@ToolReviewZone I have a system LOL. What I do is set a timer for about 30 minutes before the PREDICTED time so I come back just before the battery starts making the 2146-20 blink. Once the LED starts blinking, I'll sit near it and watch your UA-cam videos to kill the time lol. I actually test ALL my new batteries and even keep track of the all time record (record is 5h18m on a 2146-20 for a 12Ah). Most new batteries end up in the 5h07m to 5h17m range. I use the 2146-20 as my test rig for run time for the M18 batteries and for the M12 batteries, I used to use the 2125-20 (underhood LED) but now have gone with the 2127-20 (the paint match LED) because it's easier to carry it around with me if I'm in the middle of a test and need to bring it with me whereas that 2125-20 is very unwieldy. Having that 2127-20 to test my M12 batteries for run time is real NICE LIKE. For DeWalt, I use the heat gun as my test rig because you can lock the button. The Milwaukee heat gun was not lockable and was a piece of shit, so I sold it. I supposed I could use the M12 and M18 vacuums but they are so noisy which is why I decided on using LED lights.
i love Milwaukee and have many of their tools and all of their batteries. BUT the old m18 12.0 as well as the old 9.0ah is a horrible batteries because thay always have 1 bank of cells go out of balance fairly quickly. Your capacity is that of the weakest/lowest voltage of the 1 out of the 5 cells. li ion cells are fully charged at 4.2 volts per cell and dead at about 3.0-3.2 volts per cell. 3.7 volts is about 50% charged. If you fully charge and open up your old 12.0ah battery i assure you that maybe only 4 of the 5 sets of cells will be 90%-100% charged at 4.1-4.2 volts per cell but one bank will be low at about 3.6-3.7 volts which is 50% charged which is why your only getting 50% run time and your 12.0ah is acting like a 6.0ah battery. Once your old 12.0ah battery is dead and if you open it up and check the voltage only 1 of the 5 cells will be dead at 3.0 volts but the other 4 will still be 50% charged at 3.7 volts per cell. Lets all hope Milwaukee had improved the bms and balancing of these new forge batteries.
@@ToolReviewZone Your 12.0ah that you tested in the video is messed up because it has one bank of cells that are unbalanced which have less voltage than the rest thats why the run time is so much worst than your brand new 12.0 forge battery.
completely agreed @ricenall777 i rip so many apart, here is what i can tell you, those M18 9.0 used Samsung 30Q SDI 3 were so bad, they choked in M12 cp3.0 and xc 6.0 up till last couple years they switched to Samsung 30Q SDI 6, so far so good 12.0 used Samsung 40T, so bad that also in 8.0 and Dewalt 12.0 flexvolt Bosch went with Samsung 40T version 2 and still bad till recently they got Samsung to fix it in their production line Samsung 40T version 3 seems to fix issue, All these company should recall regardless how old they are for a short period of time, Milwaukee switched to the Murata VTC 6a, incredible reliable and balance, unfortunately the board were so badly made on 12.0 which you can charge them, the charging process just fail pre maturely.
@@ToolReviewZoneseveral tool brands have had this happening. Idk if the internals are too thin and it's causing the connections to overheat and melt apart under high discharge or what. Kobalt it happens and my DeWalt 6amp flexvolt batteries have become 20v only. Plates are melting inside or wiring separating.
I watched a Milwaukee rep demonstrate their new coating tech at pipeline they put all over the inside of the battery to waterproof it so water intrusion shouldn't be an issue at all.
Regarding the 12 High Output charging faster than the 12 Forge, is the 12 High Output new or like-new? If it has had a few charge cycles already, the capacity will be slightly lower and therefore the charge time will be slightly quicker. 37 minutes vs 44 minutes isn't drastically different unless the 12 High Output was brand new just like the 12 Forge.
I have 12 5.0 batteries non forge only had 1 go bad and it was my fault running it very low multiple times forgetting to charge it 😅 but 2 years owning milwaukee tools I've been happy overall
Also, the reason why the 8Ah and 12Ah charge at almost the same rate is because of the stacks. You have 3 rows in the 12 and 2 rows in the 8. Each row can only take so much amperage. Therefore, they should theoretically charge at almost identical rates, given that the CHARGER can keep up. In this case, the charger CAN keep up and is able to put just as much juice into the 3 rows in the 12 as the 8. Therefore, your results are exactly what I would expect. The only one that was off is the 12 Ah High Output and I suspect it's an older battery with slightly lower maximum capacity. The fact that the 12 Forge had almost double the run time as the 12 High Output leads me to believe that particular 12 High Output has diminished capacity. The 12 Forge should be able to put out more current on demand, but RUN TIME should more or less be the same between the two 12 Ah BAT-RAYS.
@@ToolReviewZone now I want to test my 12 High Outputs on my Super Charger. I actually track the capacity of my batteries lol. I have 2 brand new 12 High Outputs that I will time how long they take to charge from fully depleted (will run them to 0 using the 2146-20 LED light and make sure the last LED is blinking). Will reply back in a few days with my time.
@@ToolReviewZone I researched this more. I remember when the original 48-11-1811 supercharger came out, the posted charge time for the 3 Ah Compact and the 6 Ah High Output were identical at 35 minutes and that's because the 6 Ah was essentially 2 rows of 3 Ah and thus would charge at the same rate. The 8Ah is 2 rows of 4 Ah and the 12 Ah was 3 rows of 4 Ah so theoretically, the 12 Ah should charge at the same rate as the 8 Ah if the charger can keep up. However, the original supercharger could only charge the 12 Ah High Output in 60 min instead of 45 min (8 Ah). Therefore, it's possible the newer SuperCharger (48-11-1815), that puts out 13.5A maximum, charges the 12.0 High Output slightly faster than the original super charger, which allegedly only could output 12 amps max.
The charge time doesn't surprise me at all. Batteries have a maximum charge rate, called 'C", where C = which is the battery capacity divided by the charging current. Amp Hours / Amps = Hours. So, an 8AH battery that can be charged with an 8A source, has a 'C' = 1. An 8AH battery that can only be charged at 4A has a 'C' of 2. Battery technologies have a 'C' rating. Charge them faster than this and their life will be shortened. Charge them slower, and well, they take more time to charge. These batteries, like all lithium rechargeable batteries, have a chip inside that reports its health and other information to the charging controller in the charger (usually). This chip also acts as a circuit breaker if its output current is too high (hence the screwdriver across the terminal trick to restore them). Bottom line, two batteries with the same design will have the same (minimum) charging time. All of this is to protect against the equivalent of the Tesla Carbeques. BTW, you're not going to get electrocuted by a 20V battery. It wouldn't be a good day if you got a wedding ring across the terminals, though. The circuit breaker _might_ save your finger.
@@davemason6501 I don't know the specifics in this cae but it might be that the 8AH battery is a different configuration, different technology (there are several Li derivatives), or not enough cooling. The technology is generally rated with the 'C' number, to lump all of the batteries in that series with one number. The specific charging requirements for each size, within that series/technology, is apparent without specifying the charge rate for each battery, It's more or less a constant. Of course, they can be charged at a lower rate, putting less stress on the battery.
I have 4 high outputs 6.0s that have been underwater 3 times. Once for 12 hours and twice for like an hour or two. Camping when we got flooded. Never had a single issue and the 12 hour time was almost 3 years ago
It is meant to blow air through the battery while charging. What happens when the openings get plugged up with dirt, sawdust...... Will it overheat while being charged? Slow the charging time?
The 8.0 & 12.0 forge charge faster than HO 8.0 & 12.0 when they are drained and hot after being used on a tool. Cool cycle lowers battery temp so that it can accept power from a charger sooner
bosch batteries have had vents for ages and never had a problem, they are quite small and unnoticable but you see them on the top and theres one on the bottom on the opposing side to the top ones, probably thinking to get ventilation through most of the battery rather than just one side, ive never had problems with these batteries and they are 9 years old now, i now own heaps of milwaukee gear and would definitely buy these new forge batteries if i got them on sale or in a package deal etc, i find it hard to just pay full price for anything hahaha. that being said i've had milwaukee grinders, drill, impact driver all get soaking wet in the rain and i proceeded to chuck them into my toolbox to pull them out a week later still damp, they never stopped working after that, never had any problems.
I have not been paying much attention to Milwaukee. Just like to say that if 'stacked' batteries means more voltage output like 36v instead of 18v, then that's a good thing.. Double the voltage you halve the current. for the same power. Less current means smaller wires and less heat.
Appreciate the feedback Dave. Just curious about the Milwaukee comment though. I've also noticed many others not really getting all to excited about the Milwaukee video's for about a year now and was wondering what was going on. Is it because the prices are high, are you not really in the market or do you feel they are getting stale? Just curious 🤔
Likely reason for slower charge time. Longevity, same reason for the vents. The new style they made may be prone to heating up quicker than others, maybe it suffers from failures in multiple ways if there is too much heat. I haven’t torn one down. Or have the free time to experiment for fun. But knowing batteries and programmed modules, there’s typically a reason a charge rate can be slower or faster.
Check the full charge voltage of your 12.0Ho. Its badly out of balance. Compare it to the 6.0ho. Dont use a supercharger, you mentioned voltage sag, you get voltage rise as well. Your 12.0HO is probably only 20.2-20.4V an hour after a full charge on a standard charger, it should be 20.7+v. The 6.0HO is probably 20.8v
In all of my life, the Trades which work outdoors, always run inside when rain is uh coming. 🌧️ I’m not picking on them, it’s just not feasible to work out in the rain. I mean, who’s running 110v corded equipment in the rain? A/C current is far more dangerous. Who’s running gas powered equipment in the rain? Sucking water into the intake isn’t good for the engine. Awesome test. Not an issue. I just hope Milwaukee’s sealant doesn’t ooze out like FLEX!!
the coating is the same developed by the Electronics Industry for use to waterproof Smartphones and give them their IP rating. Milwaukee's adopted it for use on battery packs.
I'm pretty sure people are NOT that stupid drenching the battery in water and expecting it to be waterproof. Those vents do make sense in cooling those batteries and prolonging the performance.
I feel like your High Output 12AH must be having an issue. The OG 12AH High Output are very known for going out of balance. Of the 6 i bought back in 2022, I had 1 which went so horribly out of balance it ended up almost zero volting one of the cell groups and had to be replaced under warranty within a year. Then right around when they all got to the end of their 2 year warranty. Another 2 started to drop capacity. I opened them up and sure enough one of the cell groups was down to 3v while the others went upto as high as 3.7 Ended up manually re balancing them myself before the cells got damaged and they pull pretty close to full capacity again. I also checked my other 3 that i have had no issues with and they all are staying in balance. I havent checked the warranty replacement i got. But while that is still in warranty i dont want to put any signs of tampering on the screws. BTW should be noted i know how to look after my batteries. Got a bunch of OG 4AH and 5AH ones as well. Have only ever had 1 other Milwaukee battery have any issues and that one was about 8 years old when it did. You can find plenty of others online talking about failing HO 12AH packs.
LiPo pouches in a high current cordless tool setting seems like a suicidal choice. I was surprised they even tried it. Batteries will off-gas when they get too hot. In cylindrical cells that gas can escape past the seal and will be in lower quantities. Where as in pouch cells it's trapped, until the volume and pressure gets to be too much. That gas can be flammable. One thing that might be important to note, the BMS on the Milwaukee batteries tells the charger what its max charging current is. They might have that dialed back? Or it might be part of a potential testing flaw. How much usage has that 12Ah High Output already seen? The faster charge time and lower run time on the HD12.0 might be from a decreased capacity from higher usage. When it comes to run time, regardless of which ever generation of Milwaukee battery, a battery of identical amp hours will have relatively identical run times. The way that I can see that the Forge batteries (only the ones with "cool cycle") having longer run times is in that they may have a longer lifetime from seeing slower degradation due to getting cooled and generating less heat from having a lower internal resistance from the tabless design.
I can hear my Milwaukee batteries make a sizzle sound when they charge and it's all of them not just one, I am scared to leave them on the charger when I leave now.
I might just get the new batteries anyway. The prices aren't that much different! Maybe ill pick up the 20" chainsaw, pole-saw, blower, and string trimmer with the new forge batteries.
How often are people really using these in heavy rain or water? I feel like it’s pretty rare that I actually use this stuff in the rain but it might just be the type of work I do
The only way to really settle this is to put the battery on the charger and place the charger in the bathtub and tell us if it works like toasters do????
They always assume people will be on a large worksite and not a little space. The chargers need to be a fraction of the size. They take up to much room in the truck and to much room on the jobsite.
For me personally, charge time is not that important. Runtime is king! If the Forge is 30 to 40% better, it may be a better choice, depending on price of course!
they use uniform coating these are more multi tabs than tabless cells they use Ampace JP40 cells if i see them right, so are Dewalt XR 8.0 Makita uses Murata / Sony VX40 which should have higher quality Ampace are division of CATL can output 100Amp for 5 seconds without lower heat than Samsung 40T
What if i need to use my tools under water or heavy rain why dont they make a waterproof battery? Or one that works in space at -400 farenheit o gravity.
Most tradies are conscious of not getting tools wet…never mind the batrays; rain inside any tool is bad and leads to tool death at some point; if not by shorting, then corrosion. So then, do they protect the tools, but leave stacks of batteries outside in the rain, maybe on charge even?…Hell no! Can it ever happen? Well of course, if you’re desperate to lock down some structure and the heavens just opened, but you take that risk knowingly and try hard to keep the tools dry. On point…Batts with vents should have their internals water protected and I would not expect a short..BUT moisture is pervasive and corrosion an inevitability in time. Edit: Don’t worry if Milwaukee batteries fail..ya should have bought black and yellow in the first place😜
Would you be willing to take the HD12.0 pack apart and see what the cells look like? Want to be able to confirm when we get a real pack. Do the cells have unique serial numbers or qr codes on them?
@@ToolReviewZone I'm trying to find a picture that shows if they use unique serial on each cell, I have seen a pic of 4 ampace cells that are identical numbers and want to verify they actually ship in milwaukee packs like that or not.
Nice demo video. I couldn't deduct much from the soaking of only forge. I've opened up many HD batteries and they also have a protective coating on the. battery. It would have been a better comparison to also see the HD battery soaked in water. I'm not eintirely convinced by the forge technology being better in all metrics to the HD batteries. For one the HD batteries are likely significantly older than the new ones (I too have HD batteries 12 and 8 Ah). I think if you truly measure capacity the HD battery will have less capacity than the forge, even though both batteries are rated for the same capacity. I can't make any calid cimclusions about forge always having twice the runtime of HD. I'm not buying the comparison results. Second resistance of older batteries increase over the lifespan of the batteries so this could influence effiency of charging and capacity. Again therefore difficilt to meaningfully interpret the results of the new batteries over the old. Next I do notbthink that aircoolingbmeaningfully improves metrics qualitatively. We already know for years from electric vehicles that active liquid cooling is the better startegy for performance and longevity of the batterpack. The EV industry has long shifted away from air cooling batteries. Its just not good enough in the long run (Nissan Leaf heatgate). To me Milwaukee's choice for air cooling already to me makes the new line up of batteries and their charger look like old technologybfrom 10 uears ago, and is not with the times. I wouldn't invest in forge and wait for newer technology. Also Milwaukee never adressed the elephant in the room with their 18 V batteries and thatbis they still don't support cell balance of all cells. This has been a growing issue with the HO batteries for years and whicjh I also have experienced with quite a few 12 Ah batteries. The circuutry and leads to the batteries are not good enough to manage battery healthy. I think this issue will persist in the new batteries too, beacuse I have heard not one demo, presentation or story in this too dat. I think it is the one thing that makes one step closer to better batteries. Not perse the tabless or pouch cells bitbthe battery manage system is not up to scratch, which causes unnecassary premature failures in my experience. I opened a few 12 Ah HO batteries and with a little more in depth research found many yoribers already finding deeper issues with th3 batteries. I like Milwaukee, but I don't think the have made a better quality line up of battery for the future of forge. There are missimg elements to the current narrative and story of the "amazing new forge". Also it's high time the prongs for charging and discharging changed to less proprietary. I think it's strange we still need a proprietary charger and different pathway for discharging. I understand it feom safety perspective, Bitbthe chargers are big and bulky and the current prong don't allow to make technologies for 3xample that we can make a six bay portable charger be both a paralelle charger and battery bank for discharging as well, a powerstation. Milwaukee built a whole seperate porbatble elecyric generater. This while a portable fuel 6 bay packout compatoble charger can not function as a smaller powerstation too, with six batteries in paralell? What a missed opportunity for the jobsite on those days you don't need tools but could use a smaller portable powerstaion to bothe charge and discharge milwaukee batteries in series or paralell. Now thatbis what I call innovation (well not really, the competition already has them, only milwaukke is lacking behind). And why can't we have usb as standard secondary charge/discharge on a milwaukee battery as standard? So much more convenient than carrying around a space filling bulky charger around. All we need is just one usb c cable!! All in all slightly disappointed in the new milwaukee batteries. I think they could have done much better, even if I look how innovative they have been with other products of tools and accessories in their line up.
like any of ya'll working hard enough to be capitalizing on 11 sec difference of charge time and a few minutes of run time. serious tho, recently a new guy pulled down a sprinkler line with a scissor lift. right above where I staged my tools, my milwaukee tools and batteries were underwater for a few minutes before i could get them. all survived except one of my knock off batteries.
ha ha, are we really to believe Milwaukee a TOOL company, that makes TOOLS for PROFESSIONALS, didn't plan on these batteries being in Drywall environments, in the mud, in the rain, cover in dirt, oil, grim and everything else we PROFESSIONALS use these batteries and not have them work. Wow, people sometimes, they are expensive, the charger is expensive, EVERYTHING Milwaukee is expensive, but when it comes to working, and needing your tools to perform, Milwaukee never lets me down. Even when I have had an issue like with my M18 vacuum, their warranty department took care of me. My wallet hates the Milwaukee tax, but their stuff works.
cause pouch has trademark and everyone use it need to pay the trademark owner, with cell there isn't, thats why Tesla go with cell only. (that is what I hear) I may be wrong
Love your videos. Thank you for keeping same content as when you started. Vince channel is getting more and more annoying. More talking about useless stuff and less video of what the show is actually about.
Not even a milwaukee guy but your test may be flawed for the 12ah. I think your 12ah high output may no longer be a "12ah". Battery degradation. Hear me out. The original single supercharger claims to charge 12ah high output in 60 minutes yet you charged it in jus under 40 mins. Also your runtime on vaccum was almost half the runtime of the 12ah forge which doesnt make sense either especially on a tool with a continuous draw and not something with power fluctuation. They are both a 12ah. The forge doesn't magically make more capacity. Could maybe be slightly better due to efficiency but not that significant. Especially on something like vaccum. Ive had dewalt 8ah batteries that were going bad and noticed the same thing. Like man this battery is charging really fast and had 3 bars. But then noticed it seemed to die fast. Then confirmed my suspicions and it did charge and die faster. Opened up battery. Found a cell producing like 2v or something. Basically its no longer a 12ah more like a 7.2ah or somethin
They don't care if in the long run 2 to 3 years later it messes up your battery. You'll just go out and buy another one. Cuz they won't warranty it. And you're a brand named snob that'll pay through the tooth for a name.
The vents give you an interesting option on the next generation of tools (especially something like outdoor power tools that run continuous). Add forced air cooling to the tools. Depending on the motor layout you could just extend the shaft out the back, add a fan and air intakes, and force air through the battery to keep it cooler longer. I would think this would be particularly useful in continuous run applications like weed eaters, mowers, blowers and the like.
Water proof means you're giving up something else. In this case, not only $$ but charge and discharge rate. Batteries need cooling. These tools aren't designed to be underwater tools, and don't cost like them either.
Dude go on a jobsite 😂, you think we don't work in the rain and snow??? Or if the plumber had a bad day and floods out half the job...we keep workn homie 😂
I accidentally dropped a gen3 impact driver with a Forge 6.0 battery into a bucket of water, there was only 1/4” sticking out the top, it was in there for HOURS, I could not see it, and so did not know there was even a bucket for it to fall into. I pulled it out, squeezed the trigger, and water sprayed EVERYWHERE…. Still works just fine, I think it was totally SUBMERGED for 4 hours plus.
Appreciate the feedback 👊
It will go bad in a few months I would guess. Takes a bit of time for the corrosion to do its job and destroy your tool but once it got seriously wet, that is usually what will happen. PCBs will corrode and it's game over for the tool.
I accidentally drop it into my pool and still work 🙄
It's funny some people would believe that Milwaukee didn't think about coating the contacts inside the battery. I'm certain that Milwaukee has heard of rain before.
To be honest I would not be surprised if they were to miss something like this.
@@ricksgiggle8852 you must own lots of yellow tools 😂
Planned obsolescence
You can't coat the contacts or you wouldn't have power. The circuit is coated because you don't want a short across positive and negative on the board.
@@douglasvine2516 Don't be so pedantic. Years ago when I use to make my own circuit boards I would coat the boards if I was using them outdoors. Of course the contacts are not coated. I misspoke in my original post.
I have at least $9000 worth of Milwaukee tools, and as an Electrician. I NEVER in my 19years of experience got my tools WET!!! I believe it's a great idea of the vents!
Sounds like you live in a desert. I also work as an electrician, and my tools get wet all the time. My current company uses Milwaukee and we've had no issues with them being wet, not yet gotten new forge batteries though.
@@Liteg0 🤣😂
There are certain jobs and locations where staying dry is impossible. I'm a mechanic and have used my tools in all conditions milwaukee holds up well from engine oil to lake water don't matter my milwaukees eat it up
Sparkies don't get out of bed if there's rain forecast anytime in the month so that's expected😂
@@jarlnieminen4307 😂 heck no I ain't working in the RAIN LOL
Milwaukee added that proprietary coating to the inside components of the battery to shield it from shorting it out. Remember at Pipeline where they did the Alkaseltzer test? The one with the coating didn't fizz
Lol conformal coating isn't anything new...
It's a standard thing to conformal coat the circuit board in portable electronics that see harsh environments. The coating can be any number of adhesive materials that are tailored to their usage environment. Circuits inside key fobs are coated in the event you drop your keys in a puddle for example.
They want 400 bucks for a 12.0 here in Canada for these batteries
Dayuuuum
@@ToolReviewZone yah. Buddy lol. Great videos. Send me that 12 when you’re done soaking it with the hose and I’ll test it in some snow for you. Hahahah
seems like an excuse to keep the older batteries expensive.
regular retail is amazingly $10 LESS than the older 12ah HO 48-11-1812. $388 instead of $398. The thing is we rarely see the old ones at that regular anymore... usually on for $298. :)
I have 5 Milwaukee 12amp batteries that are useless now. I will never buy another tool from them.
Pouch cells have an advantage in flexibility, weight, and size but that’s about it. Pouch cells are less expensive to manufacture than tabless jelly roll cells. Thats why you see them all over the place, not because they perform better. Tabless cells run cooler, are more efficient and distributes power more evenly than its pouch cell cousin, charges faster, and has a longer lifespan than pouch cell packs. I dropped my gen 4 M18 impact driver off my mom’s 15 foot roof into her pool. Tool and battery still work just fine. Milwaukee already addressed this concern and told us getting water into the vents is nothing to worry about.
We need to know the number of cycles on each battery.
Keep in mind that a new 12.0 might have 12-13Ah a 1yr old lite use 12.0 might be down 15-20% so only 9.6-10Ah.
Keep in mind that m18 batteries are rated to lose 20% after 250-300 charge cycles if charged on a standard 1hr charger I'd expect them to die faster on a faster charger
I unconsciously always put a fan next to my battery chargers. I didn’t like how warm my batteries get when they are charged completely depleted. In a job, the fan died and was only charging on ambient in house temperature (I think the clients had their AC on 82). I noticed that charging times took longer than what I got used to. In some cases, when battery would be warm (high consuming tools like shop vac, leaf blower) it would not charge. Worst without the fan. So if you’re limited to a few batteries (because they are still expensive), try using a fan to blow on them when they’re charging. It will help a lot!
Thanks! ❤
Ill never forget this tip!
I don't use the rapid charger because it doesn't hold the charge as long as the og charger. So I made a custom 3 charger bank and used 12v fans to cool the batteries and electronics
Yeah, and I'm upset that my toaster isn't bathtub ready. Maybe you shouldn't expect things that don't claim to be "water friendly" to be. Quit taking your cordless tools with you while scuba diving ... there are cases made to use cameras underwater, if you don't have them, you will destroy your camera. They warranty against leaks ... and the case costs more than your camera does. In other words, they can replace your camera 3 times before they are hurting. It's almost as if people should just use their brain once in a while.
Definitely need a bathtub ready toaster 👊
How will we drill underwater with our hand power tools
Great video as always my friend!! I’m guessing that this new tabless technology is an in between to regular cylindrical cells and pouches that also must cost less to build than the pouches. I am impressed with these tabless cells!
Tabless gives you similar Wattage output per cell without a significant increase in cost. The pouch cell batteries are usually custom cells, which is very expensive. The tabless cells are just a newer off the shelf component. So very easy and inexpensive for manufacturers to implement. That said they still don't offer the same longevity benefits of a pouch cell, and they can be very difficult to keep cool because you basically have a much larger cell with similar surface area, which is why I suspect Milwaukee has finally implemented active air cooling. Pouch cells have an enormous amount of surface area relatively, so while peak Wattage outputs are likely similar between the two, pouch cells will be able to maintain higher outputs for longer periods.
first part ok, but pouch cells have worse longevity and they are much harder to cool, they are in sandwich without any air circulation between them.
@@riba2233yup pouch cells are not magic guys, your phones and laptops all use pouch cells. Not exactly the paramount of longevity and durability. They do have advantages that power tool companies have finally learned to leverage, which are decreased size and weight and reduced resistance, but tabless cells reduce resistance as well, and are much cheaper.
Tabless cells have lower internal resistance and run cooler than standard cells. Tabless cells do not need more cooling.
the 6.0 doesnt have air cooling because they cant due to the pouch cells not because it doesnt need it. the cylindrical cells are able to be air cooled because theres space between them not all stacked into a block
@@olinsmith3638 pouch cells can be assembled with space between them.
Thank you for this video. Im sure people will say you should have soaked the battery in a pool first 😅😅😅
I've actually had that comment 🤣
I get around 45 mins with my previous style twelve 0's on my backpack vacuums. I also get about 45 mins of run time on the backback leaf blower using two 12.0 at a time. I picked up a bunch on sale when they were starting to come out with the newer ones.
Love the pack out, installed a second system on the RTV for field work, perfect. Anxious to see the new accessories.
Just did a video today on them 👊
I got all the new forge sizes and don't see an issue the 12 is a beast. Noticeably strongest and last forever even on high draw tools and it puts out great voltage even at the end of its life. The 6ah is a great power to weight battery though I like all 3 sizes though the fact the 8 and 12 have the cooling feature for fast charge is a big plus for me. When you use rapid chargers and are pushing your batteries heat build up becomes #1 concern.
Alright man. I did the test on my own 48-11-1812 (12Ah) with 2-3 charge cycles on a 48-59-1815 (dual bay Supercharger with only 1 BAT-RAY on it, same as your test). It took 46 min to get to blinking green, and 56.5 min to solid green. This is with a FULLY DRAINED BAT-RAY. I used a 2146-20 LED light to run it right down so the light was completely off, not just blinking to indicate a low BAT-RAY. I did the same test with a slightly used 12Ah BAT-RAY (8-10 charge cycles) and got 46 min to blinking green, and 58 min to solid green. Initially. this was slightly counterintuitive since the 2nd BAT-RAY should have slightly LESS capacity but then I remembered I went straight from the 2146-20 to the 48-11-1815 while the BAT-RAY was hot so it did not go into SUPERCHARGE mode until about 6 minutes.
@user-ld6wo4rv8h appreciate the feedback brother man. Now tell me, just how boring was it to drain those and watch them recharge. It's been a horrible week for me 🤣
@@ToolReviewZone I have a system LOL. What I do is set a timer for about 30 minutes before the PREDICTED time so I come back just before the battery starts making the 2146-20 blink. Once the LED starts blinking, I'll sit near it and watch your UA-cam videos to kill the time lol. I actually test ALL my new batteries and even keep track of the all time record (record is 5h18m on a 2146-20 for a 12Ah). Most new batteries end up in the 5h07m to 5h17m range. I use the 2146-20 as my test rig for run time for the M18 batteries and for the M12 batteries, I used to use the 2125-20 (underhood LED) but now have gone with the 2127-20 (the paint match LED) because it's easier to carry it around with me if I'm in the middle of a test and need to bring it with me whereas that 2125-20 is very unwieldy. Having that 2127-20 to test my M12 batteries for run time is real NICE LIKE. For DeWalt, I use the heat gun as my test rig because you can lock the button. The Milwaukee heat gun was not lockable and was a piece of shit, so I sold it. I supposed I could use the M12 and M18 vacuums but they are so noisy which is why I decided on using LED lights.
i love Milwaukee and have many of their tools and all of their batteries. BUT the old m18 12.0 as well as the old 9.0ah is a horrible batteries because thay always have 1 bank of cells go out of balance fairly quickly. Your capacity is that of the weakest/lowest voltage of the 1 out of the 5 cells. li ion cells are fully charged at 4.2 volts per cell and dead at about 3.0-3.2 volts per cell. 3.7 volts is about 50% charged. If you fully charge and open up your old 12.0ah battery i assure you that maybe only 4 of the 5 sets of cells will be 90%-100% charged at 4.1-4.2 volts per cell but one bank will be low at about 3.6-3.7 volts which is 50% charged which is why your only getting 50% run time and your 12.0ah is acting like a 6.0ah battery. Once your old 12.0ah battery is dead and if you open it up and check the voltage only 1 of the 5 cells will be dead at 3.0 volts but the other 4 will still be 50% charged at 3.7 volts per cell. Lets all hope Milwaukee had improved the bms and balancing of these new forge batteries.
Never had an issue with the 12, ut I did with the 9
@@ToolReviewZone Your 12.0ah that you tested in the video is messed up because it has one bank of cells that are unbalanced which have less voltage than the rest thats why the run time is so much worst than your brand new 12.0 forge battery.
@riceball777 I guess it's possible, but is what it is.
completely agreed @ricenall777
i rip so many apart, here is what i can tell you, those M18 9.0 used Samsung 30Q SDI 3 were so bad, they choked in M12 cp3.0 and xc 6.0 up till last couple years they switched to Samsung 30Q SDI 6, so far so good
12.0 used Samsung 40T, so bad that also in 8.0 and Dewalt 12.0 flexvolt
Bosch went with Samsung 40T version 2 and still bad till recently they got Samsung to fix it in their production line
Samsung 40T version 3 seems to fix issue, All these company should recall regardless how old they are
for a short period of time, Milwaukee switched to the Murata VTC 6a, incredible reliable and balance, unfortunately the board were so badly made on 12.0 which you can charge them, the charging process just fail pre maturely.
@@ToolReviewZoneseveral tool brands have had this happening. Idk if the internals are too thin and it's causing the connections to overheat and melt apart under high discharge or what. Kobalt it happens and my DeWalt 6amp flexvolt batteries have become 20v only. Plates are melting inside or wiring separating.
I watched a Milwaukee rep demonstrate their new coating tech at pipeline they put all over the inside of the battery to waterproof it so water intrusion shouldn't be an issue at all.
I was at pipeline, but they didn't show me that 😪😪😪. Thanks for the feedback 👊
Does the 12Ah forge fit in the M18 Fuel Packout vacuum?
Regarding the 12 High Output charging faster than the 12 Forge, is the 12 High Output new or like-new? If it has had a few charge cycles already, the capacity will be slightly lower and therefore the charge time will be slightly quicker. 37 minutes vs 44 minutes isn't drastically different unless the 12 High Output was brand new just like the 12 Forge.
I have 12 5.0 batteries non forge only had 1 go bad and it was my fault running it very low multiple times forgetting to charge it 😅 but 2 years owning milwaukee tools I've been happy overall
Also, the reason why the 8Ah and 12Ah charge at almost the same rate is because of the stacks. You have 3 rows in the 12 and 2 rows in the 8. Each row can only take so much amperage. Therefore, they should theoretically charge at almost identical rates, given that the CHARGER can keep up. In this case, the charger CAN keep up and is able to put just as much juice into the 3 rows in the 12 as the 8. Therefore, your results are exactly what I would expect. The only one that was off is the 12 Ah High Output and I suspect it's an older battery with slightly lower maximum capacity. The fact that the 12 Forge had almost double the run time as the 12 High Output leads me to believe that particular 12 High Output has diminished capacity. The 12 Forge should be able to put out more current on demand, but RUN TIME should more or less be the same between the two 12 Ah BAT-RAYS.
Great feedback. I tried a second 12HO and it had around the same charge time. I guess it's possible two of them could be off, but who knows 🤷♂️
@@ToolReviewZone now I want to test my 12 High Outputs on my Super Charger. I actually track the capacity of my batteries lol. I have 2 brand new 12 High Outputs that I will time how long they take to charge from fully depleted (will run them to 0 using the 2146-20 LED light and make sure the last LED is blinking). Will reply back in a few days with my time.
@@ToolReviewZone I researched this more. I remember when the original 48-11-1811 supercharger came out, the posted charge time for the 3 Ah Compact and the 6 Ah High Output were identical at 35 minutes and that's because the 6 Ah was essentially 2 rows of 3 Ah and thus would charge at the same rate. The 8Ah is 2 rows of 4 Ah and the 12 Ah was 3 rows of 4 Ah so theoretically, the 12 Ah should charge at the same rate as the 8 Ah if the charger can keep up. However, the original supercharger could only charge the 12 Ah High Output in 60 min instead of 45 min (8 Ah). Therefore, it's possible the newer SuperCharger (48-11-1815), that puts out 13.5A maximum, charges the 12.0 High Output slightly faster than the original super charger, which allegedly only could output 12 amps max.
How is the output power between the 12.0 HO and the 12.0 Forge in an impact or a hammer drill? Do you get mooorrr powa?
The charge time doesn't surprise me at all. Batteries have a maximum charge rate, called 'C", where C = which is the battery capacity divided by the charging current. Amp Hours / Amps = Hours. So, an 8AH battery that can be charged with an 8A source, has a 'C' = 1. An 8AH battery that can only be charged at 4A has a 'C' of 2. Battery technologies have a 'C' rating. Charge them faster than this and their life will be shortened. Charge them slower, and well, they take more time to charge.
These batteries, like all lithium rechargeable batteries, have a chip inside that reports its health and other information to the charging controller in the charger (usually). This chip also acts as a circuit breaker if its output current is too high (hence the screwdriver across the terminal trick to restore them). Bottom line, two batteries with the same design will have the same (minimum) charging time. All of this is to protect against the equivalent of the Tesla Carbeques.
BTW, you're not going to get electrocuted by a 20V battery. It wouldn't be a good day if you got a wedding ring across the terminals, though. The circuit breaker _might_ save your finger.
@kwilliams Good info on the 'C' values, except a 8AH battery that can only be charged at 4A has a C of 0.5.
@@davemason6501 I don't know the specifics in this cae but it might be that the 8AH battery is a different configuration, different technology (there are several Li derivatives), or not enough cooling. The technology is generally rated with the 'C' number, to lump all of the batteries in that series with one number. The specific charging requirements for each size, within that series/technology, is apparent without specifying the charge rate for each battery, It's more or less a constant. Of course, they can be charged at a lower rate, putting less stress on the battery.
I have 4 high outputs 6.0s that have been underwater 3 times. Once for 12 hours and twice for like an hour or two. Camping when we got flooded. Never had a single issue and the 12 hour time was almost 3 years ago
Thanks again Clint!!! I was going to say something about the Gnome but ,I figured you already abused Vance this week!!!!!!
It is meant to blow air through the battery while charging. What happens when the openings get plugged up with dirt, sawdust...... Will it overheat while being charged? Slow the charging time?
The 8.0 & 12.0 forge charge faster than HO 8.0 & 12.0 when they are drained and hot after being used on a tool. Cool cycle lowers battery temp so that it can accept power from a charger sooner
bosch batteries have had vents for ages and never had a problem, they are quite small and unnoticable but you see them on the top and theres one on the bottom on the opposing side to the top ones, probably thinking to get ventilation through most of the battery rather than just one side, ive never had problems with these batteries and they are 9 years old now, i now own heaps of milwaukee gear and would definitely buy these new forge batteries if i got them on sale or in a package deal etc, i find it hard to just pay full price for anything hahaha. that being said i've had milwaukee grinders, drill, impact driver all get soaking wet in the rain and i proceeded to chuck them into my toolbox to pull them out a week later still damp, they never stopped working after that, never had any problems.
I have not been paying much attention to Milwaukee. Just like to say that if 'stacked' batteries means more voltage output like 36v instead of 18v, then that's a good thing.. Double the voltage you halve the current. for the same power. Less current means smaller wires and less heat.
Appreciate the feedback Dave. Just curious about the Milwaukee comment though. I've also noticed many others not really getting all to excited about the Milwaukee video's for about a year now and was wondering what was going on. Is it because the prices are high, are you not really in the market or do you feel they are getting stale? Just curious 🤔
@@ToolReviewZone Most people I know say they are overpriced and don't last as long as some of the other brands.
Appreciate the feedback
the real speed gains in charging is from the cool cycle, after heavy use it needs the battery to cool down before it can start charging
Likely reason for slower charge time. Longevity, same reason for the vents. The new style they made may be prone to heating up quicker than others, maybe it suffers from failures in multiple ways if there is too much heat. I haven’t torn one down. Or have the free time to experiment for fun. But knowing batteries and programmed modules, there’s typically a reason a charge rate can be slower or faster.
What does the chain on your bicep represent?
Check the full charge voltage of your 12.0Ho. Its badly out of balance. Compare it to the 6.0ho. Dont use a supercharger, you mentioned voltage sag, you get voltage rise as well. Your 12.0HO is probably only 20.2-20.4V an hour after a full charge on a standard charger, it should be 20.7+v. The 6.0HO is probably 20.8v
old battery vs new dude, your 12.0 HD is just used up
In all of my life, the Trades which work outdoors, always run inside when rain is uh coming. 🌧️ I’m not picking on them, it’s just not feasible to work out in the rain.
I mean, who’s running 110v corded equipment in the rain? A/C current is far more dangerous. Who’s running gas powered equipment in the rain? Sucking water into the intake isn’t good for the engine.
Awesome test. Not an issue. I just hope Milwaukee’s sealant doesn’t ooze out like FLEX!!
framers work through it all in Canada it's baffling even for me
@@shivasidhu5087 Yes, but Canadians are TUFF... and there's probably a shorter dry season there. Gotta get as much work done as possible.
This helped me with deciding between 6 and 8 forge. Going with the 6.
8 is a much better choice, don't be silly
Very good content!!
the coating is the same developed by the Electronics Industry for use to waterproof Smartphones and give them their IP rating. Milwaukee's adopted it for use on battery packs.
I'm pretty sure people are NOT that stupid drenching the battery in water and expecting it to be waterproof. Those vents do make sense in cooling those batteries and prolonging the performance.
lite a joint and lets see that sweet sweet smoke move through that forge
I guess in Canada tabless sound better because stacked lithium take a while to warmup in the cold
The early forge batteries don't have those vents or the cool cell writing but it's still stacked lithium batteries
The Forge battery took longer to charge because it has an actual higher capacity, not just a paper rating. Time is meaningless.
I feel like your High Output 12AH must be having an issue. The OG 12AH High Output are very known for going out of balance. Of the 6 i bought back in 2022, I had 1 which went so horribly out of balance it ended up almost zero volting one of the cell groups and had to be replaced under warranty within a year. Then right around when they all got to the end of their 2 year warranty. Another 2 started to drop capacity. I opened them up and sure enough one of the cell groups was down to 3v while the others went upto as high as 3.7
Ended up manually re balancing them myself before the cells got damaged and they pull pretty close to full capacity again. I also checked my other 3 that i have had no issues with and they all are staying in balance. I havent checked the warranty replacement i got. But while that is still in warranty i dont want to put any signs of tampering on the screws.
BTW should be noted i know how to look after my batteries. Got a bunch of OG 4AH and 5AH ones as well. Have only ever had 1 other Milwaukee battery have any issues and that one was about 8 years old when it did.
You can find plenty of others online talking about failing HO 12AH packs.
Sooooo should I get the Forge or the High output? Home Depot has these nice sales going on and I’ve been trying to make up my mind🤔
If you want forged series time is now 350 dual supercharger and 2 8.0. The only back draw for people was price, there’s no excuse now.
Everyone's concerned about the battery getting wet, but what about the tool itself? The tool actually has moving parts.
LiPo pouches in a high current cordless tool setting seems like a suicidal choice. I was surprised they even tried it. Batteries will off-gas when they get too hot. In cylindrical cells that gas can escape past the seal and will be in lower quantities. Where as in pouch cells it's trapped, until the volume and pressure gets to be too much. That gas can be flammable.
One thing that might be important to note, the BMS on the Milwaukee batteries tells the charger what its max charging current is. They might have that dialed back? Or it might be part of a potential testing flaw.
How much usage has that 12Ah High Output already seen? The faster charge time and lower run time on the HD12.0 might be from a decreased capacity from higher usage.
When it comes to run time, regardless of which ever generation of Milwaukee battery, a battery of identical amp hours will have relatively identical run times. The way that I can see that the Forge batteries (only the ones with "cool cycle") having longer run times is in that they may have a longer lifetime from seeing slower degradation due to getting cooled and generating less heat from having a lower internal resistance from the tabless design.
I can hear my Milwaukee batteries make a sizzle sound when they charge and it's all of them not just one, I am scared to leave them on the charger when I leave now.
That sound is NOT the battery, it's coming from within the charger (coil noise)
No screen necessary cause you can just hoss them down and get all the dirt out 😄
I might just get the new batteries anyway. The prices aren't that much different! Maybe ill pick up the 20" chainsaw, pole-saw, blower, and string trimmer with the new forge batteries.
How often are people really using these in heavy rain or water? I feel like it’s pretty rare that I actually use this stuff in the rain but it might just be the type of work I do
The only way to really settle this is to put the battery on the charger and place the charger in the bathtub and tell us if it works like toasters do????
Edge?
These are basically heat sinks. It's not like water is circulating inside the cells.
My friend owns a plumbing company and he washes all his milwaukee tools with water after finishing a job.
They always assume people will be on a large worksite and not a little space. The chargers need to be a fraction of the size. They take up to much room in the truck and to much room on the jobsite.
Super charger just burns the candle on both ends, burns twice as bright for half as long
The faster you charge the quicker you kill your batteries
very informative. i do like milwaukee-i-a😅. thanks .
So I understand correctly that the Forge packs arent pouch stacked lithium cells?
That is correct
Love a good debunking video!
There is HD hack. I bought Milwaukee 12.0 forge around $170 each.
For me personally, charge time is not that important. Runtime is king! If the Forge is 30 to 40% better, it may be a better choice, depending on price of course!
Please open the battery in a week and let us see green stuff on open contact plates
they use uniform coating
these are more multi tabs than tabless cells
they use Ampace JP40 cells if i see them right, so are Dewalt XR 8.0
Makita uses Murata / Sony VX40 which should have higher quality
Ampace are division of CATL
can output 100Amp for 5 seconds without lower heat than Samsung 40T
these are pure tabless, only multitabs I know of are some high power molicels. Yes, they are JP40, same as dewalt 8ah.
What if i need to use my tools under water or heavy rain why dont they make a waterproof battery? Or one that works in space at -400 farenheit o gravity.
Conformal coating. Not a mystery, and has been a thing for PCBs as long as they've been made.
There’s still a ton of manufacturing jobs that are in controlled environments that don’t see conditions that would have their batteries wet
Most tradies are conscious of not getting tools wet…never mind the batrays; rain inside any tool is bad and leads to tool death at some point; if not by shorting, then corrosion. So then, do they protect the tools, but leave stacks of batteries outside in the rain, maybe on charge even?…Hell no! Can it ever happen? Well of course, if you’re desperate to lock down some structure and the heavens just opened, but you take that risk knowingly and try hard to keep the tools dry. On point…Batts with vents should have their internals water protected and I would not expect a short..BUT moisture is pervasive and corrosion an inevitability in time. Edit: Don’t worry if Milwaukee batteries fail..ya should have bought black and yellow in the first place😜
The copper pipe cutter has a problem with water tho 😂
Would you be willing to take the HD12.0 pack apart and see what the cells look like? Want to be able to confirm when we get a real pack. Do the cells have unique serial numbers or qr codes on them?
I actually have a video of that from pipeline. I believe I attached it to the end of this video
@@ToolReviewZone I'm trying to find a picture that shows if they use unique serial on each cell, I have seen a pic of 4 ampace cells that are identical numbers and want to verify they actually ship in milwaukee packs like that or not.
Nice demo video. I couldn't deduct much from the soaking of only forge. I've opened up many HD batteries and they also have a protective coating on the. battery. It would have been a better comparison to also see the HD battery soaked in water.
I'm not eintirely convinced by the forge technology being better in all metrics to the HD batteries. For one the HD batteries are likely significantly older than the new ones (I too have HD batteries 12 and 8 Ah). I think if you truly measure capacity the HD battery will have less capacity than the forge, even though both batteries are rated for the same capacity. I can't make any calid cimclusions about forge always having twice the runtime of HD. I'm not buying the comparison results.
Second resistance of older batteries increase over the lifespan of the batteries so this could influence effiency of charging and capacity. Again therefore difficilt to meaningfully interpret the results of the new batteries over the old. Next I do notbthink that aircoolingbmeaningfully improves metrics qualitatively. We already know for years from electric vehicles that active liquid cooling is the better startegy for performance and longevity of the batterpack. The EV industry has long shifted away from air cooling batteries. Its just not good enough in the long run (Nissan Leaf heatgate). To me Milwaukee's choice for air cooling already to me makes the new line up of batteries and their charger look like old technologybfrom 10 uears ago, and is not with the times. I wouldn't invest in forge and wait for newer technology. Also Milwaukee never adressed the elephant in the room with their 18 V batteries and thatbis they still don't support cell balance of all cells. This has been a growing issue with the HO batteries for years and whicjh I also have experienced with quite a few 12 Ah batteries. The circuutry and leads to the batteries are not good enough to manage battery healthy. I think this issue will persist in the new batteries too, beacuse I have heard not one demo, presentation or story in this too dat. I think it is the one thing that makes one step closer to better batteries. Not perse the tabless or pouch cells bitbthe battery manage system is not up to scratch, which causes unnecassary premature failures in my experience. I opened a few 12 Ah HO batteries and with a little more in depth research found many yoribers already finding deeper issues with th3 batteries. I like Milwaukee, but I don't think the have made a better quality line up of battery for the future of forge. There are missimg elements to the current narrative and story of the "amazing new forge".
Also it's high time the prongs for charging and discharging changed to less proprietary. I think it's strange we still need a proprietary charger and different pathway for discharging. I understand it feom safety perspective, Bitbthe chargers are big and bulky and the current prong don't allow to make technologies for 3xample that we can make a six bay portable charger be both a paralelle charger and battery bank for discharging as well, a powerstation. Milwaukee built a whole seperate porbatble elecyric generater. This while a portable fuel 6 bay packout compatoble charger can not function as a smaller powerstation too, with six batteries in paralell? What a missed opportunity for the jobsite on those days you don't need tools but could use a smaller portable powerstaion to bothe charge and discharge milwaukee batteries in series or paralell. Now thatbis what I call innovation (well not really, the competition already has them, only milwaukke is lacking behind). And why can't we have usb as standard secondary charge/discharge on a milwaukee battery as standard? So much more convenient than carrying around a space filling bulky charger around. All we need is just one usb c cable!! All in all slightly disappointed in the new milwaukee batteries. I think they could have done much better, even if I look how innovative they have been with other products of tools and accessories in their line up.
like any of ya'll working hard enough to be capitalizing on 11 sec difference of charge time and a few minutes of run time. serious tho, recently a new guy pulled down a sprinkler line with a scissor lift. right above where I staged my tools, my milwaukee tools and batteries were underwater for a few minutes before i could get them. all survived except one of my knock off batteries.
Also hand it on a wall and the charger will work properly
At the end of the day you can just wash all the drywall dust out, right? 😎
ha ha, are we really to believe Milwaukee a TOOL company, that makes TOOLS for PROFESSIONALS, didn't plan on these batteries being in Drywall environments, in the mud, in the rain, cover in dirt, oil, grim and everything else we PROFESSIONALS use these batteries and not have them work.
Wow, people sometimes, they are expensive, the charger is expensive, EVERYTHING Milwaukee is expensive, but when it comes to working, and needing your tools to perform, Milwaukee never lets me down. Even when I have had an issue like with my M18 vacuum, their warranty department took care of me.
My wallet hates the Milwaukee tax, but their stuff works.
Well said
I'm willing to bet that if you were to use different batteries of the same amperage you'll get a different result
cause pouch has trademark and everyone use it need to pay the trademark owner, with cell there isn't, thats why Tesla go with cell only. (that is what I hear) I may be wrong
What about dust and water clogging up in there
Forge slows down at 80 percent then basically trickle charges
You look like Tom Sizemore from Big Trouble :)
Love your videos. Thank you for keeping same content as when you started. Vince channel is getting more and more annoying. More talking about useless stuff and less video of what the show is actually about.
Vance is all tied up with that Vegan stuff now
My helper dropped my 6.0 Forge battery in a ditch full of water and it never worked again.....
Good thing there's a warranty on them
Tip: To not risk getting unalived putting wet batrays on charge…just put them in the cradle before plugging the charger in!
there is a product called conformal coating
You keep switching names like stack lithium and edge so it got confusing
Not even a milwaukee guy but your test may be flawed for the 12ah. I think your 12ah high output may no longer be a "12ah". Battery degradation. Hear me out. The original single supercharger claims to charge 12ah high output in 60 minutes yet you charged it in jus under 40 mins. Also your runtime on vaccum was almost half the runtime of the 12ah forge which doesnt make sense either especially on a tool with a continuous draw and not something with power fluctuation. They are both a 12ah. The forge doesn't magically make more capacity. Could maybe be slightly better due to efficiency but not that significant. Especially on something like vaccum. Ive had dewalt 8ah batteries that were going bad and noticed the same thing. Like man this battery is charging really fast and had 3 bars. But then noticed it seemed to die fast. Then confirmed my suspicions and it did charge and die faster. Opened up battery. Found a cell producing like 2v or something. Basically its no longer a 12ah more like a 7.2ah or somethin
Might wanna re edit the vid to correct that you are saying Milwaukee edge instead of forge.
He must have just done the RYOBI EDGE BATTERY TESTING FIRST like me doing too much testing of different tools and Batteries
Yeah, I did the edge test the other day. It happens I guess 🤣
Either that or the beers are kicking in 😂😂 🤘🤘✊️✊️
@AllTattedUp13 haha 🤣🤣👊
@@ToolReviewZone lol all good man, love the content you make. It’s informative and funny 😂
Always hated their m18 batteries period
Simple, get Flex stacked lithium
Less yakking more facts😅
Test the Makita :)
Edge? You okay bro?
Water is one thing . Cookies crumbs is another 🍪
They don't care if in the long run 2 to 3 years later it messes up your battery. You'll just go out and buy another one. Cuz they won't warranty it. And you're a brand named snob that'll pay through the tooth for a name.
The vents give you an interesting option on the next generation of tools (especially something like outdoor power tools that run continuous). Add forced air cooling to the tools. Depending on the motor layout you could just extend the shaft out the back, add a fan and air intakes, and force air through the battery to keep it cooler longer.
I would think this would be particularly useful in continuous run applications like weed eaters, mowers, blowers and the like.
You keep saying edge where you need to be saying forge
mmm... water proof .. yaaaaaay ..... it's 2024
Water proof means you're giving up something else. In this case, not only $$ but charge and discharge rate. Batteries need cooling. These tools aren't designed to be underwater tools, and don't cost like them either.
Who's bringing water to thier electronics when was the last time any put water in their batteries
Rain or working in wet conditions
Dude go on a jobsite 😂, you think we don't work in the rain and snow??? Or if the plumber had a bad day and floods out half the job...we keep workn homie 😂