Viking Finn Bruh. We did fight back and 350,000 Orthodox priests were murdered along with 10s of millions of lay people. “Blessed are those who are persecuted for My name’s sake.” Your comment exposes your ignorance of history. America is Satanic and Masonic. Protestants failed to protect the West without being persecuted and slaughtered. I’ll stick with the True Church. Btw, Eastern Europe is still Orthodox.
Viking Finn communism was punishment for the Orthodox’s tolerance of the bogomils. Ain’t no way the Roman Empire going to put up with that ancient evil.
@@vikingfinn7250 In eastern Europe the Orthodox Church has suffered because of fanatics like you! Priests and the faithful were killed, tortured, exiled and humiliated by any means! Our churches were destroyed or misused by godless ideologists! Everyone was brainwashed to be an atheist! The Orthodox Church has suffered for almost seventy years, but that crucified Church is risen from the dead! That crucified Church is glorious in the blood of our Saviour! That crucified Church is glorious in the blood of the martyrs! You may hate us but we do love you!
@@noname-by3qz politics have politicians who lie, deceive, molest kids etc. should we stop elections or cancel democracy altogether? Doctors deceive, molest kids etc should we stop trusting the medical profession and work out remedies ourselves? Teachers deceive, molest kids etc. Should we stop taking our kids to school to learn? Lawyers deceive, molest kids etc. Should we stop seeking legal counsel in courts? I hope you get my point...
sherry, if they do not subscribe to the nicene creed, it's a fair statement. what hath aeons, multiple gods, an evil god the father, a sophia figure, private knowledge, an evil world, a jesus who did not truly appear in human flesh, only spirit being good, judas bidding the actual will of jesus who truly wanted him to give him away etc... have in common with christianity? there are things that christianity is and is not. and if one does not subscribe to the nicene creed, then point.blank.period. they're not christian in the truest sense of the word. orthodoxy is hard core like that. it draws the line in the sand. pick the side ya wanna be on. the gnostic is not my brother. and i personally don't expect people who purposefully purpose fanciful pagan who do not confess the trinity and entertain fables to enter unto the kingdom of heaven.
Brothers and sisters, please pray for me. I told my parents (who have been baptists their whole lives) I’m going to be leaving to orthodoxy. They are very upset, so please pray for god to open their hearts to the truth.
I've had several instances where protestants have tried to cite the Fathers as evidence of "sola" theology; such as saying Irenaus used the words "scripture" and "alone" in a particular writing, as if he is speaking in the same context as a lutheran or calvinist. My response was that you don't get to cherry-pick your patristics; if you want to cite them, cite ALL of them, including passages about bishops, the Eucharist, etc, all that stuff that "smells too catholic" for them...
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
@ttff4444 lmfao but they do agree on the dogmas that are the foundation of the true Church. They all agree on apostolic succession, the Eucharist truly being Christ’s body and blood, the sacraments, etc etc
I was raised going to non denominational churches. In my teens, I neglected my faith and got into smoking weed, drinking, porn, etc. after high school I got into psychedelics like mushrooms and acid. One day I took a bunch of mushrooms and I looked up at this crucifix that my friend had on his wall. I scoffed at it. I laughed at it saying, “ why do you have this dead guy on your wall?”, mocking it. In that moment, I felt a dread that is almost indescribable. I was filled with self hatred and nihilism. I remember saying ,” existence is disgusting.” I couldn’t help but feel like my life would forever be painful and that I was better off dead. I cried and cried and even asked my friend for a knife so that I could cut myself. That was one of my darkest moments but also one of my most pivotal moments. I saw what life was like completely separated from God. It’s almost like I saw my own little slice of hell. Since then, it’s been a slow journey back into church. I was never the most intellectual or disciplined when it came to studying. All of the differences in theology and all of the big words throw me off. I was introduced to things like the gnostic gospels, law of attraction, and other “esoteric” or “spiritual” schools of thought but that always felt wrong to me. I finally decided to let all of that go and get back to my roots which is the Bible, but non-denominational church no longer seems appealing to me. I’ve been watching a lot of videos on the differences between Protestant denominations, orthodoxy, and catholicism, but trying to decide which is the way to go is so hard, especially for someone like me who struggles intellectually with all these different theological concepts. I say all of this because I am feeling lost. I know that God is real. I trust and believe in Jesus, but I sometimes wonder if that is enough for me to be saved. I am a sinner and I’ve tried to be better to little avail. I still struggle with things like porn and sometimes weed and I feel like I have no one to guide me. Maybe that’s my fault, idk. I can say this: Eastern Orthodoxy has caught my eye and I love all of the stories and history that comes from it. I also love the beauty of the icons. If anyone ends up reading this, please pray for me. The closest EO church is an hour away from me and is so different than what I’m used to, but a part of me feels a call towards it.
Ask Jesus to send you the Holy Spirit. The Comforter will lead you into all truth as you repent and are obedient to the Words of Christ. Find fellowship and perhaps church counselor to discuss questions you must have. Faith in Christ and His words will lead you into all truth. It will take time to understand His teachings in contrast to the world and your fallen nature. God bless you as you learn to serve Him by serving others.
Don't worry so much brother. I am a weekend meth binger, for the past ten years (26-36). I am yet to go to church, though I have been strongly compelled to do so by God. I come from a non religious family, and an atheistic public school education, though I am genuinely very intelligent. All of this means nothing, since God has shown me he is real. It's time to take up our crosses , and prove our love for Him by getting in to church! I'll comment again in here, after I have been to church, for the first time this Sunday!
I watched this when you first made it and thought I wasn't convinced, but I haven't been satisfied with protestant churches since. Rewatching today, and I think I'm all the way there. Lord willin' and the creek don't rise, we'll be going to the little Orthodox mission here tomorrow.
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
I am kind of stuck in Protestantism right now, but after having learned about Orthodoxy and then attending Protestant worship services, I have found these things that are well-intentioned but quite irreverent and even blasphemous. Protestantism is cancer.
thank you! i very much hope that christians in america who are so unaware of christian history will do their homework, learn of christian history, and come home to the eastern orthodox church!
@@nickys3225 you will have to do a history lesson on how the early church complied the bible. i''ll give you a hint: it took hundreds of years. i wanna say a good 400-500 years before there was a solid canon. the early church has to decide what books reflected christian truth and which books were false, as there was a lot out there pretending to be truthful like gnostic books, such as thomas or judas. it also did not fall out of the sky in king james english. the same men who came together to compile the bible you now read were orthodox men. and martin luther got the bright idea to take books out of the bible, that even jesus himself read, and now protestants are missing a whole bunch of god's revealed written revelation in the bible. if not for orthodox people coming together a good half a century after the death of jesus to really solidify what books were worthy to be scripture and not scripture based on church tradition (i.e. that trinity is real, jesus is god, mary is mother of god, the eucharist is the real body and blood etc...) then you'd have no bible to read now. i know all of that sounds weird to a protestant. but i am speaking truth. please do your research on how the bible came about and who compiled it.... and you'll have a different view, as it did not in the year 100 appear as it does now, complied, with an OT and NT, with chapters and verses. in english. etc. protestants do not know the history of the very book they read.
Eormanric Gutum you must be a baptist because with history your church and it’s modern manmade non Apostolic doctrines are refuted because you follow the teachings of John Smyth, Roger Williams, etc.
Thanks Jay.. I was a 20yr old baptist till my brother introduced me to Orthodoxy. We had fierce debates, but the more i tried to dig dirt on Orthodoxy the more i realised how wrong my baptist believes were. My whole world came crushing down. So glad to have found theee Church. Makes soooo much sense.
This is where I am at currently. I feel almost like I am going through a crisis in my faith and my husband is being so gracious on listening to my arguments against protenstantism (we are currently reformed presbyterian).
I was in Israel recently. We did end up at the Via Dolorosa. Protestants went shopping while Orthodox and Catholic believers were connecting to Jesus and walking with croses as though the place was sacred and meanigful. Stunned me with the differnce. Will never forget it.
You're not the first pilgrim to the Holy Land that has told me this. As Catholics, we connect with the physical nature of places where Christ and the Saints walked. Protestants believe that it's just a place with some historical value, but it is no more holy than their metal building church back home.
As a Protestant for over thirty years (and someone who has been looking at Orthodoxy for the past several), I found this interesting. Thanks, Jay, for taking the time to address these issues. I will have another listen and carry out some more research. We might disagree on some little bit here or there, but in the main it was (as we say in Britain), “spot on.” Thanks and Happy Christmas to you and yours!
@@NnannaO You can find plenty of engagement with Orthodox doctrine. It's not that there isn't engagement, it's that the paradigms and philosophical foundations are sometimes different.
@@konroh2 Thanks. One more question. Do you know whether Protestantism and the essence energies distinction could be compatible? I haven't studied the latter very much.
@@NnannaO I think it's very much compatible. Good question. I actually think Thomas Aquinas was in agreement with essence/energy. And Protestant theology agrees, usually the understanding is outlined as God's communicable and non-communicable attributes. God is infinite in His attribute of love, but we can also show love in a similar way that God can. God mysteriously contains all His attributes infinitely and perfectly, yet limits Himself in His expressions. I think Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox views of the Godhead are all compatible and all can learn from each other.
I’m just learning about orthodoxy but it’s blowing my mind. The Church gave us the Bible not the other way around 🤯 And I recently had to realize that I believe shortly after the apostles the church apostatized until folks who believe what I believe came along and now it’s all figured out and I can go to multiple churches provided I agree with most of what was say. So 1200 years of darkness and now basically at my discretion. 🤦♀️ I can’t carry on with that.
The Church is Christ's body, apostles who were the foundations of the Church also wrote Holy Scripture. The Church did not give the Bible. The Church is fed and nurtured by the text. And when did Christianity (the Church) apostatize? All Christians agree with the doctrines of the 1st 5 centuries of Christianity.
@@konroh2 So the apostles, who were the foundations of the Church under Christ, wrote the New Testament Scriptures. But they did not give the Bible? It looks to me like those two statements oppose each other. The Church is the pillar and ground of truth. This does not contradict the infallibility of Scriptures, but rather that Scriptures are not separate from the Church.
@@andrewdamerau2742 I agree Holy Scripture and Holy Truth go together, but which one nurtures the other? The Church is refined by the truth of Scripture, Scripture should be properly interpreted by the Church, but the Church doesn't correct the text, the text corrects the Church. The Church is the ground of the truth because it has holy people who are living in the truth of Scripture.
@@konroh2 I can agree to some extent, but I still think it's problematic putting one above the other. The Scriptures are part of the Church's teaching. The Scriptures nurture us Christians as part of the Church's nurturing. The Scriptures don't themselves correct the Church, nor does the Church correct the text (although it did formulate the correct cannon). We can see this in all the different churches that claim to be led by Scripture and yet preach different things.
@@andrewdamerau2742 The Scriptures aren't part of Church teaching, they are the primary part. What teaching is above Scripture? And Scriptures properly applied do correct the Church. And the Church did not formulate the correct canon. That is a misnomer that many people think. There was no Council to determine canon--that actually would make Church above canon. The fact is Church recognized canon, they didn't formulate it, they didn't authorize it. Please correct this misunderstanding in your thinking. And finally hermeneutics can be complex, but don't misrepresent complex meaning for lack of meaning. We all must recognize that there is one truth and one truth only. Yet this complexity doesn't mean that there is a salvific truth not found in Scripture, or that God wasn't quite clear in the text.
As a Protestant examining Orthodoxy and seeing a lot more of the historical grounding, I really appreciated a lot of your points, Jay. Very well explained and articulated. The fact that tradition is necessary for even accepting the canon was the biggest jump-start in my journey of examining all this, and with more of a Wesleyan background, I'm very much already accepting of doctrines like theosis and synergism. I think the biggest hang-up for me right now, personally, is that when I visit Orthodox parishes around me, I just don't see a lot of the fruit I would expect to see from "THE" historic body of Christ, whereas I do actually see a lot of the things you point out (fasting, giving to the poor -- even the rare exorcism here and there) in my moderate-charismatic, evangelical circles. So I guess my struggle is not on a theological level (where I'm totally on-board with Orthodoxy and the church councils), but on a pragmatic one. Why don't I see the fruit in evangelism, missions, etc. among the Orthodox that I've been around? It seems like I see a lot of passion for the Lord and the life of the Spirit among my evangelical brothers and sisters, while a lot of Orthodox kinda seem like the "frozen chosen" to me. Is it just me? Not at all trying to be demeaning, I'm just honestly wrestling with this. It's a lot of cognitive dissonance thinking that Orthodoxy is right "on paper" but I don't know if I see it working in practice. I dunno, maybe it's just me.
I’m not orthodox, but I think that’s where I’m headed. Have you spoken to a Father from a church near you? Maybe you could ask them this very question over email or even in person. I hope that you will eventually get your answer!! :)
@@shayd.9853 Yes, I’ve spoken to one priest in my area and his answers have all been courteous and helpful. But again, it’s still kind of like it sounds great in theory but I have yet to see real vibrancy in the community. Planning on visiting a couple other parishes nearby to see if they’re different. I need to see that the Orthodox Church is zealous for missions, discipleship, community outreach - things I believe were vital to the early church - before I can personally commit.
Don't get caught up on legalism at the start of your journey. Crawl before you run. Look at yourself and learn to let go of this world before you can reach a state of stillness and a higher state of spirituality by being closer to God. What I'm saying is you need to reverse your way of thinking when it comes to orthodoxy.
You don't see the fruits from "churches" because "the church" is Satan's greatest accomplishment today. THE most dangerous place for any follower of Yeshua today is in a church. Seek The Most High, reading your KJV (NOT NKJV- I have not yet shared my year-long deep dive video into Bible translations) with the ESSENTIAL guidance of Holy Spirit. Yeshua saves!
Hmm! Maybe I should become Orthodox. I am Protestant and feel like I know very little history, and I feel like the church I attend is a big clubhouse that is just a safe zone for families. But we have little agreement or theological cohesion, and theres no training happening, just sermonettes that sound the same and say the same thing. Not deep.
As a former prot, converting to Orthodoxy I must encourage you take the time to investigate Orthodoxy... prot churches are all the same, empty and shallow.... because although many do contain some truth, they have an incomplete understanding, and if what you genuinely seek is the truth, you will never be satisfied with Protestant teaching, worship style or outreach. Not to mention the mental gymnastics required to understand the bible when viewing through a prot lense
inTruthbyGrace Jesús was talking about the worship of the Pharisees. You follow modern baptist traditions of men as a disciple of John Smyth not Christ and the apostles. You read only what your pastors teach not the whole bible orthodoxy follows the scriptures when Paul says “So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter” (2thess2:15) was Paul preaching against what Jesus said NO he’s teaching Apostolic tradition that we are supposed to follow not a single one of you Protestants especially you Baptist’s follow only the orthodox truly follow the word of God and follow the apostles you follow what Christ spoke against we follow the traditions handed down orally and through written teachings by the apostles. Without our tradition the spread out manuscripts of the New Testament would not be compiled into a bible for you to thump and misinterpret
inTruthbyGrace you are teaching the doctrines of men and their interpretations you follow the preachers of the second great awakening, John Smyth, Roger Williams, and people like the lunatic Stephen Anderson you are a disciple of baptist tradition not Christ and the one church he established he did not establish your church.
Well, Chris, I encourage you to check us out! Orthodoxy might not be for everybody but if it is for you, NOTHING else will work. Believe me, as I tried most everything before I knew the Orthodox Church even existed.
The thing that is really baffling to me with the Protestants' recoiling at the mere mention of the world 'tradition' is that the Greek word "Παράδοσις" (Paradosis) literally means "the handing down of something to the next generations". When I say "Εγώ παραδίδω" it simply means "I hand down to you" (i.e I tradition to you). There is absolutely no distinction or tension between the writings, in what later were compiled into the Bible (scriptural texts) and the oral tradition (handing down to). They are complementary (συναμφότερον). That's all it is. You would think that with so many authoritative Protestant scriptural scholars this simple fact would not have escaped them. But alas, it seems pride and ego are too powerful of forces and can make many go blind...Good work Jay. We are waiting for that Byzantium t-shirt.
Exactly! It’s absurd to believe that Athanasius walked into his office one day in 367 and found a New Testament on his desk. What do they think was going on between 33 A.D. and then?
Yep. They automatically associate tradition with 'man-made tradition' but it is not! It is Holy/Sacred Tradition and as you said there is absolutely no distinction or tension between the writings that became the Bible and oral tradition.
@@annkellett7592 Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
@@ThroughKinAndClan Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Protestant theologians can only function as such if the agree to the intellectual dishonesty, which, in addition to sola scriptura, is their other idol.
Jay, Thanks for posting this video (this is my first time watching you). I just celebrated my 20th anniversary of being received into the Orthodox Church. Many of your top 10 reasons why you're no longer Protestant are the same as mine. As I studied the footnotes of many theological books over the years, I kept noticing references to the Church Fathers and the Deuterocanonical books. When I studied at a highly-respected Evangelical graduate school of theology, we rushed through the Early Church and Roman Catholicism to spend more time on the Reformation and what followed. It wasn't until I heard a lecture in the late 1990s from a well-known former Evangelical who spoke about his conversion to the Orthodox Church that I realized I knew nothing about the Orthodox. After 2.5 years of study I "came home."
Thank you for taking the time to lay this out so beautifully. I cannot speak this eloquently but these are the same ten reasons that I converted to Orthodoxy.
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Jay you were a big part of me coming over back in 2005-2006. Love your channel! Oh how it has grown in the last 10 years or so! Wow! Keep up the good work!
Jay wasn’t even orthodox back then 😂😂😂 he explained all of that in another video his whole background and when he converted. He was Protestant until like 2004 and then didn’t become Ortho until like 09 or later. 😂
Surprised you didn't mention the ridiculous beliefs of pre-trib rapture, and many Protestants disgusting support for the government of Israel. I live in the southern US Bible Belt and it's all you can find here.
@@RunningRlust96 I would say start with Mark 13: 23-27 for starters, then check out some "pre-trib rapture refuted" material, or a good debate on the subject pray about it and form your own opinion, there's decent enough stuff on youtube. Please dont take my word for it. One more thing... considering that there is difference of opinion on this important issue, just think....what if your belief happened to be part of a grand deception of the elect? Just worth thinking about...Love and God Bless
When we interpret Scripture it's not that we recognize national Israel as God-inspired, but I think we should certainly believe that Abraham was given promises that have been and will be fulfilled.
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
No joke Jay, Got 'woke' up by the holy spirit 10 years ago - and so began a painful, confusing journey. This is probably the most important video on you tube, bar none. Might have saved me a journey of madness through 10 protestant denominations and many demonic encounters. Love you bro. Someday soon will post something, lots of real work to be done.
Could you make a top 10 reasons I’m not Mormon? I’ve been Mormon for the longest time and I’m interested in Eastern Orthodox but I want to see the direct differences.
Caleb McMullen I suspect one of the reasons he would give, and one primary reason I give when Mormons come to my door, is that there is no such thing as a Great Apostasy. Jesus promised the preservation and continuity of his Church. The idea that the Church collectively and completely fell into apostasy to the point of needing reestablishment after 1700 years is to render Jesus’s promises as lies.
@@miqueasbello5382 Exactly, another big reason would probably be that the Mormon concept of God is drastically different from traditional Christian and Abrahamic understanding. Mormons aren't even monotheists so I don't know how they can call themselves Christian, and they believe God lives on a planet called Kolab and that when you die you get to level up and become a God on your own planet which is utterly bizarre. They believe God was literally just an alien who leveled up and became exhalted. In contrast to traditional monotheistic thought, God is not a physical being within the material world but rather transcends creation entirely and is the ultimate grounding of all of reality. The Mormon concept of God just gives you an infinite regress, while we know like Thomas Aquinas would argue that there must be a first mover and ultimate grounding to everything that's not contingent upon anything.
I'm currently a Mormon and have been inquiring about Orthodoxy myself. The main differences are 1. What we are taught regarding apostasy (why restore a church that never disappeared?) and 2. The function of the Priesthood. I spoke with a local Orthodox priest in SLC with my questions and it was one of the best 2 hours of my life. I was giddy for two days.
@@asceticfeminine Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Loved the video john! I converted last year on the feast day of St John the Baptist. Most of my family is calvinist/reformed but Orthodoxy tends to suck reformers in for some reason.
Your note at the end about protestantism being anti-intellectual was so true. I remember a time my preacher told us to stop thinking so much and I was unable to articulate it at the time, but I knew that the comment was just goofy. The idea you can believe in Jesus but not think it to be true as well is just absurd. In order to serve our Lord to our full human potential, we must be dedicated to him in harmony of body soul and mind like the harmony of the Trinity. We know this is true because we are to fast and do good work (body), put our faith in Christ (soul), and set our minds on things above (mind).
Jay, Can’t tell you how much I appreciate you laying all of that out there like you did. As a *current* Protestant (Baptist/Non-Denominational 🤷🏻♂️) you’ve inspired me to challenge why I believe what I believe. I proudly proclaim Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, but, you’ve helped shed some light on areas of my faith that I now realize have been sort of tugging at me for longer than I knew. I think I might be finding myself where you were many years ago; still searching for Truth. I’ve begun reading some of the blogs posted on the AFR app, I’ve watched a couple of Orthodox services on UA-cam and I must say...even those fringe exposures illicit an emotional, Holy-Spiritual response; I KNOW that’s the presence of the Holy Spirit. There are still many subjects I’ll need to sit down with someone to ask questions to, like: the Eucharist becoming the ACTUAL BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST (as you may well know, this is a bit of a “no-no” for Evangelicals), the “seeming” worship of Mary, etc. In-spite of those questions, I recognize the Holy Spirit is tugging at me to follow Him; with everything going on in the US and around the world right now, I don’t think I have quite the same timeline as you when He began tugging at your sleeve though😉. Ultimately, I just wanted to say thank you for fighting the good fight and putting yourself out there like you have. That takes big huevos of FAITH! May God bless you for that! Also, some additional feedback: My first introduction to who you are was on your 1st? appearance on the Alex Jones Show. I was very glad to see he asked you to come back on to host the 4th Hour ( a couple times now, I think). In my humble opinion, that is a very wise move for the both of you. I hope he continues to share his platform with you as you deserve it. You bring something quite unique (intellectually based monologue and polish) that may have been missing. Hope to see you on his Show more! Corey
I know it's been two years and I hope you are well, Brother. You said you listen to AFR. Lord of Spirits has an episode that focuses on Mary. It is extremely well done and I think will answer all the questions you have. As for the Eucharist, I have seen this repeated online and my Father likes it: Catholics believe the Eucharist is real. Protestants believe it is symbolic. Orthodox Christians believe it is real *because* it is symbolic. I prayed for you. ☦️
As a catechumen I'm surrounded by watchtower society types (JW's) at my workplace. I find it interesting that Charles Taze Russell claims a so-called "great apostasy" after the First Century. Could that claim be necessary because all the subsequent Councils refute and anathemize his (Russell's) anti-Trinitarianism? It's obvious to me that the answer is yes, of course it is. Great video!
6:00 "The Bible was/is written primarily for Liturgical setting as opposed to private use." The early Christians, for the most part, would not have been able to afford books of the Bible for private devotion and secondly not able to read. Therefore it's no surprise that the Early Church assumed corporate reading as the normative way. The earlier part against Sola Scriptura is stronger. The Church came first -before the NT.
What about when the traditions are clearly not based on anything scriptural. Is tradition higher than God's Word. Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
The church isn’t special or authoritative. The church is just the global body of those who have repented and believed in Christ. The NT scriptures came after the first people who repented and believed in Christ but that doesn’t give ‘the church’ authority over Scripture.
6:33 I learned this point as an agnostic liberal prot. The stories in the Gospels are structured as independent pericopes, specifically designed for public recitation in church. All the secular scholars know this. When I became a Christian again, Orthodoxy was the obvious choice.
God cant damn God, unless jesus is a created being - Arianism or Jesus is a secondary personal subject in the incarnation - nestorianism. In either case, the doctrine requires severe christological heresy.
Jay, l really enjoy and learn greatly from your videos. You better than anyone has explained eastern Orthodoxy more clearly and in a precise, objective easy to understand format; for that I'm extremely grateful. You raise such a great point when Paul let's Peter know that you are not special among the apostles. Perhaps N Fuentes feels that since Peter took a leadership role among the apostles that Rome should be the one to dictate and take over all dogma of Chrustianity regardless what the early church fathers say. Jesus gave the keys to all the apostles NOT just one apostle. God love you my brother in Christ.
I did too!! I will lose some friends but our old church either deliberately or through ignorance ignored soooo much my mind has been blown. I had to share.
Jay thanks for your work. On baptism, council of Carthage cannon 6 ch. 1 " the baptism of Christ cannot be rendered void by any perversity on the part of man, whether in administering or receiving." Just wanted to point that out as I have been studying for conversion recently ran across that one.
I am just commenting as I go through. Of it is read doesn't matter, but my mind is processing as I go along. I am REALLY starting to get it. I have moved around alot, and as a Swedish, I went to different Churches. Mostly some kind of evangelicals since the Lutheran Church in Sweden has become extremely woke and liberal. There are some evangelicals that actually got quite alot of the theology right according to Orthodox faith (by no means not all of course) But as I listen I realise I have taken to heart alot of the Orthodox teaching that I found in some evangelical Churches. But they don't have Unity, mystery, liturgy and history. Some of them have some more of the pieces to the puzzle that finally should make the beautiful picture of the Church. For instance it still exists Churches were the Priests are all men. And as almost non existing it is for a Swedish woman to admit it I do say that I have always felt more comfortable, with a man leading the Church and leading a ceremony. At least I always found it more appealing. Today I think there are more female Priests than males in the Lutheran Church. Most of them have Pride celebrations, and many Priest pick and chose from the Bible and even claim that all religions are different pathway. Nothing new, but very wrong for a Christian, especially a Priest.That is still unacceptable in most evangelical Churches. But I've had so little knowledge of the Orthodox Church before. At first I compared it to go from a two dimensional Church to a three dimensional. More depths context and wholeness. But I would now prefer to say, I've at least seen both two and three dimensional of faith before. I believe alot of people really want to live a rightful Christian life, but the Orthodox Church is almost non existing in Sweden, and people usually think it is almost identical to the Catholic Church minus the Pope. Well, there are not to many Christian left either. As a matter of fact it wouldn't surprise me if there are more muslim believers, if we count real believers, than Christian's. But the two dominating beliefs are of course atheism/darwinism and new age. I would now say that Orthodox Christianity has something more than just three dimensions. I've experienced a glimmer of the transcendent before, but just that. A glimmer, hasting away. And that I think by the grace of God to continue search for Him. I don't know if it is me, because I just discovering the Orthodox Faith or if I see and uprising of Orthodoxy in the west? It was anyway a kind of a miracle that they just happened to start a small group of of Orthodox Christianity, in my closest neighbourhood Chapel.
I have endless respect for converts. You guys have a very deep understanding of Orthodoxy because you went there after studying and investigating, while the majority of the born and raised Orthodox don't know even a quarter of your knowledge, simply because we are because we were just born in it, so we just go with it, just follow. Thus, in born and raised Orthodox people, you can find really, reeeeally bad people, who claim to be good Christians, who claim to be Orthodox just because they were baptise as children and went a couple of times to the church. In my country, the church, (even our Archbishop is one of them), full of nationalists and fascists. Its like, you can't be a believing person and not be far right politically. Participation in the church has became way too political.
Dont worry God will sort people out there are priests that go to Hell and priests that go to heaven. If you look deeper you will see some devout pious people too.
I would be considered far right, not a nationalist, but Orthodoxy comes first for me everytime, in fact, orthodoxy is why I'm a patriarchal, theophilic, militant, monarchist, a "far right" position
Sometimes we cant see the Gold we are holding. Its just invisible to us. But for someone seeking it its visible and clear. I myself was born to an Orthodox family, but didnt got time to appreciate and praise God for his works.
It would be interesting to see you discuss these topics with someone like Pastor Steve Anderson of Faithful World Baptist Church in a strip mall in Tempe, Arizona. 😉 Ever since being introduced to the Eastern orthodoxy from you, I suspected that the Christian madness we see in United States (which I’m including the Hebrew Israelites as a part of) is due to being cut off from the Eastern orthodoxy. Now I’m realizing that is the case.
Steve Anderson's got nothing on Patrick Hines. Vitriol increases as these Sola subjective fools bleed believers into the ancient Apostolic Church. ua-cam.com/video/m0v1MD8BEBU/v-deo.html
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Dear brother Jay, thank you so much for all your labour. I was born into a Polish Catholic, (very) nominal family. Came to Christ in 2015 within an explicitly Protestant context. I was baptized as an infant (Catholic) and baptized again in 2016 in a Baptist church, as an adult. It's not directly relevant, but I married my Russian wife and we moved to Saint Petersburg in 2020 and attend a Baptist/ evangelical church here. I increasingly feel drawn to Orthodoxy and could eventually see myself converting to the Orthodox faith and church. My wife is a bit skeptical because of icons, the veneration of dead relics, etc.-things that I myself still contemplate on. I wanted to ask you about which resources to read at my stage? Also, how many times has the cosmology been discussed in the earliest church councils? How strict is the Orthodox church on all that happened around the 16th century with heliocentric theses of Copernicus within the context of Western, Latin aka Roman catholic civilization? Does it withhold judgment on all that? Thanks a lot and may God bless you and your whole family!!!
Can you explain more on how the EE Distinction refutes Calvinism? You have mentioned this before but you need to go slower for my small brain. connect the dots a little more for. This is the only real argument I have ever heard that strikes me as viable.
The EE distinction permits a distinction of attributes/actions in God, thus allowing a difference between Gods energy/action of providence and foreknowledge for example. Since calvinism is a continuation of the Agustinian tradition, the assumption of Absolute Divine simplicity is implicitly present in the system. If we assume ADS, which is the belief that all of Gods attributes are one and the same in Gods essence, then the attribute of providence is one in Gods essence. Thus God becomes eternally provident leading to an emanationist view of creation and making it as eternal as God himself. Instead of "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth," you have "from all eternity God emanated the heavens". Consistent calvinism falls into the origenist problematic. In short the EE distinction gives God free will. In Calvinism, salvation is essentially a predestined return to the one, similar to plotinus.
As a Protestant I can certainly agree with much of what Jay is saying, including the need for a Church to authenticate/recognize apostolic canon and tradition. But I'd argue that where a Protestant or Orthodox might diverge we certainly should look to Councils and Patristics but more importantly to the text itself. When the Reformation occurred the primacy of Scripture was tantamount. What's fascinating is how this Protestant reading of Scripture aligns with the Orthodox faith, but if we diverge is it a disagreement over tradition or the text?
@@nicodemuseam I think everyone agrees Scripture is the highest tradition--what else is above it? There is no theology, ritual or revelation which is greater than Scripture, whether one is Orthodox or Protestant. And by no means do Protestant remove Scripture from its context--what is the context? The original author and audience is how everyone should interpret Scripture. Scripture is its own canonical theology which everyone has to adhere to. What tradition interprets Scripture? The Church Fathers certainly do not have a mystical tradition which trumps Scripture--they all the time were appealing to Scripture. So I think your argument is quite flawed in many points.
@@konroh2 they also, on equal grounds appealed to the liturgy and councils. because the word of God is not limited to scripture alone, but the wider paradosis/teaching-traditioning of god's people, the church. The scriptures, like the councils and liturgy, are not above the church, judging it, but within it
@@TheMhouk2 I think you are looking at history backwards. The appeal overwhelmingly by the Church Fathers and apostles is to Scripture. There is never an appeal to liturgy, and appeal to councils is only after the fact, and the entire authority of the Church council is based on what Scripture says. Look at the way James appeals to Scripture in Acts 15. The Scriptures absolutely are above the Church, and that's as it should be. The prophets judged the people based on God's word speaking through them, the apostles likewise judged the Church based on God's word, God's truth. What is this wider church teaching which is bigger than Scripture? There is none.
You simply can’t refer to “the text” as a Protestant because if you don’t believe in tradition then you can’t be certain about the canon you subscribe to, so sola scriptura ironically doesn’t work for the very people who believe it.
I find it odd that relying on the word is some kind heresy is the the first reason one would reject Protestantism, then using the word to prove the rest of your points.
He's not saying the Bible isn't super super important, just that it's not the ONLY thing. The fathers regularly use scripture in their arguments. It's a HUGE chunk of what has been handed down, just not the only thing.
@@johnathanrhoades7751 I don't think you can even properly separate the two matters. The Bible is a book that was written and compiled by a specific community of faith. It *_belongs_* to that community. It was entrusted to them. Any book has a "right" way to read it given what the author wanted to convey, and in this case, it's that community of faith-- and all the accepted thought within it-- that determines the "right" way to read it. A Protestant reading the Scriptures outside that understanding is an improper divorce between word and context that will of course yield a different meaning. Something that wasn't intended. Something that's "inaccurate" or even "wrong". Truth of the matter is, every Christian communion has such a reading context. The next question is "which context is the right context"?
What? The word it’s self says to carry on traditions whether spoken or written. So it’s self refuting, but also the fact the first church didn’t have the NT until later on. What are you on about? Did you even listen to him?
I'm having trouble understanding how the fact that the fathers disagreed about the canon is evidence in favor of Orthodoxy. It seems to be the opposite. I don't see how the following propositions can all be true: -Church tradition is inerrant -Church tradition doesn't change - the canon is part of Church tradition -the Orthodox fathers disagreed about the canon for centuries
The codification of the Bible books took place in the Quinisext (=the Fifth-Sixth) Ecumenical Council which intended to complete both the Fifth and the Sixth Ecumenical Councils that had omitted to draw up disciplinary canons! Actually, that codification was a SYNTHESIS of earlier local councils and of several early Church fathers! The canons of the local councils and the canons of the Church Fathers were respectfully synthesised, even though none of them was totally perfect! Such a synthesis took place because in the Orthodox Church, we entirely trust in the living experience of the Whole Church! Infallibility is a gift that was bestowed on the oneness of the whole Church, because Church is the wholeness of a mystical body whose Head is the only infallible Son of man Who is the incarnated Son of God! For this very reason Orthodoxy is expressed and declared in Ecumenical Councils! On the other hand, the presumption that the Scripture could be infallibly interpreted out of the Oneness of the Whole Church is a spiritual quicksand! Thousands of different interpretations of the Bible cause a spiritual confusion and a constant state of uncertainty. Anyway you are always welcomed to experience the fullness of Christ's mystery in the Orthodox Church!
I have lived and experienced both the empty protestant "rock show" churches in the american south, as well as dead, gaudy mausoleum-like orthodox churches of eastern europe. Both are imperfect representations of an eternal reality. I have serious theological issues with Calvinism and I have serious practical issues with the "cultural" orthodoxy as I have seen it practiced in the balkans/eastern europe. I do not feel a strong urge or need to choose a camp or to be "reconciled" to one "side" or the other but I am grateful to videos like this that challenge and inspire further study.
A church is a hospital for spiritual healing. The devil will paint a different picture, that picture you are holding onto in your mind. Protestants are easy pickings for the evil one.
The reason you feel that way is because these buildings are NOT the temple of The Most High. We are His tabernacle. THE most dangerous place for any true follower of Yeshua today is in a church. Any church. Satan is very pleased with his accomplishments. True followers of Yeshua do not fit in any church. Hold on to your crown as the first seal was opened in March 2020! (I have videos up regarding this, Noahide laws, etc. of course.)
You know what's interesting for me I study philosophy at Rutgers I became a full theist After a realize how much faith I need to exist in societee and live comfortably. I need to have faith in so many things that function. Low and from my previous religious studies I found Christianity just on the intellectual level beautiful. From there was a lot of seeking of what was the historical church and the closest I got to with orthodoxy but there was a hard stumbling block until I met a chaplain who was a Greek orthodox priest and he was my 1st spiritual father and still really is. Are currently a can and OCA church couple towns over and I never felt more at home.
Oh so you are Orthodox! Great! I watch a video of you interviewing some Lutheran and wondering why you made so much sense and what was your Protestant denomination. Good job of explaining the Orthodox faith!
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
This is not meant to be insult but just an attempt to express my opinion on the matter, so please be gracious if you choose to respond: One of the big problems I see with the Eastern Orthodox church and the Roman Catholic church is that they both make claims to exclusivity. They both claim that they alone are the one true church and both claim to have historical support for their exclusivity. They both claim that they alone possess access to the saving grace of Christ. They both claim that if you truly believe in Christ you will be led to their church. So how does one know which is telling the truth and which is not? Must one become a church historian in order to be saved/know they are saved? (If any EO believers comes across this comment, please leave an answer to the above questions) One of the main takeaways from looking into EOC and RCC claims about exclusivity is this: a genuine repentance and faith in Christ is of no value to you IF you don’t become a part of our church and submit to our dogmas. (Or they’ll claim that your faith isn’t genuine if it doesn’t lead you to join and submit to their church) No matter how much you think Protestant beliefs are in error, one must acknowledge that the gospel message that most Protestant churches preach is simple and applicable to all believers. It puts the emphasis on Christ’s saving grace and not the saving power of a particular institution. Protestantism (if that’s what you’d like to call it) puts the need of a personal trust in Christ as the standard of salvation above all else regardless of church affiliation whereas Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism elevate decision of church affiliation to the same level of importance as a personal trust in Christ in regards to salvation. Is this incorrect?
Hey I'm no Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic, but if you just look at the teachings of both, the history of how they have been taugh, roman catholic has been in error for quite sometime. All these type of questions get answer the more you search. Instead of just objecting to the statements "we have the true church", from both churches entirely, maybe read or watch videos as Jay, and this other guy Orthodox Kyle, have made videos on how roman catholic has been in error. You do not have to be a historian but just be humble enough to realise there was a single church before the massive schism in 1054 AD so just start from there. Trust me as much as i want to except my non-denominational church becuase it surrounded me as a young kid, and still, I do realise that I ought to at least hear what the churches have taught and whether my pressuppositions are correct or false. Also read a bit on how the prostestant reformation began as it is just interesting.
Also about your last paragraph, this is not meant to insult i just think when we look at our faith, we have to look at it humbly and with good consience what we are teaching and the whether the doctrine is true, not just how applicable it is or easy it is. Heresy is easy and applicable to most in it's various forms. I would argue the more you take time to actually hear out what the Orthodox Church teaches from Jay and others like Kyle the easier it becomes and more applicable Orthodox teachings become. It's one thing to say something is wrong when you have good reasoning to why it is wrong, but it is a whole other thing to call it to being wrong just because many don't understand or that they have a surface level understanding of it's history. again not meant to insult but rather just motivate you to try give a look into the history of the Church as I am doing, but yeah this stuff is not easy to understand especially with our protestant presuppositions. Good luck God bless
@@EverydayKerbonaut. Edit: I read this comment (below) again and I realized I might’ve been a bit uncharitable especially considering you said you’re not EO or RCC. -- I thank you for the time you put into your responses, but, to be honest, they’re not that helpful. You basically did exactly what I was describing. You said the Catholics were the ones who caused the split in 1054 but the Roman Catholic Church would deny that and claim that it was actually the Eastern church that was in error and caused the split. So basically, not to be rude, you’re implying that I do need (to some extent) to become a church historian in order to know which church is making the right claim and therefore which is the true church. Also, your second comment addresses my last paragraph but didn’t really answer the final question which was “Protestantism (if that’s what you’d like to call it) puts the need of a personal trust in Christ as the standard of salvation above all else regardless of church affiliation whereas Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism elevate decision of church affiliation to the same level of importance as a personal trust in Christ in regards to salvation. Is this incorrect?” So, again, thank you for taking the time to reply but I still feel as though my questions have gone unanswered. So I’ll shorten them (and God bless you if you choose to reply): is there only one organization that can claim that it is the true church? is church affiliation as important as repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus? (PS I agree heresy can be easy but it can also be hard. Plenty of cults and false religions impose much stricter standards on their followers that Christianity and at times contain very complex theology. So heresy can be easy or hard, but we know that Christ’s burden for us is light and easy per Matt. 11:30)
I'm Orthodox and might be able to address some of the points you've presented here, though I'm far from an authority. 1.) A small nitpick on the idea of exclusivity you've presented here, at least from the perspective of the Roman Church, who actually do recognize the Orthodox as a valid Church with a valid priesthood, baptism and sacraments; they just say that we are in an "imperfect" or separated union with Rome and in a less "perfect" form of Christianity. Some Orthodox recognize RC sacraments, priesthood, etc. but most don't. 2.) Most Orthodox and RC also believe that non-Orthodox/Catholics can be "saved" (Orthodox theology rejects the idea of salvation being a one-time attestation of faith). We make no proclamation or claim as to who will be saved one way or the other, to do so is a grave sin and would amount to playing God. However, I will say that one of our most important 19th century saints seemed to answer in the affirmative: "You ask, will the hetrodox be saved. . . Why do you worry about them? They have a savior who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins." -St. Theophan the Recluse Hope that helps a little bit, but these are questions that should really be directed towards a priest.
@Jay Dyer I agree with each of your points. I realize that I like Orthodoxy a lot, although I don’t subscribe to it. But I have some serious questions for you: Prophets and Apostles seem to be an important element in God’s church throughout the ages. Amos talked about God always revealing His will to His prophets before He does something. Paul, in Ephesians, talking about the church being built upon the foundation of prophets and apostles, with Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone. Later in the same epistle he repeats the importance of prophets and apostles. So this leads to my first question, does your church have prophets and apostles? And I’m talking actual individuals called as prophets and apostles. This then takes me to my second question, it is clearly evident that these prophets and apostles, even after the ascension of Christ, continued seeking and receiving revelation from Christ. At times they had visions. Sometimes angels visited them, and sometimes Christ visited them. This principle of revelation is consistent from beginning to end. Does your church believe in continuous revelation through the authority given to prophets and apostles? I enjoy your channel very much btw. Thanks for all of your content.
Could you do a video on Anglicanism? It falls into the category of Protestantism but doesn’t share many of the issues you mention. Liturgy, for example, is a huge deal for Anglicans, as well as Apostolic Succession.
Also I find "anti-intellectual" to be an interesting rebuke of protestantism given that mass literacy was an integral function of its sola scriptura doctrine. Is that accusation reserved for present day protestantism only?
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
IF ur fruits stay same after going from protestian to orthodox, nothing really changed, God wants restore us to he's image right? So what has changed after u switch from protestian to Orthodox?
Hey Jay, I can't remember how I came across your channel but it's been a tremendous blessing in better understanding my protestant position and what exactly Orthodoxy is. I started doing more research into Eastern Orthodoxy and want to better grasp as I have so many questions. With respect to better understanding The Church Father's, can you recommend a starting point, or a volume/set to begin reading The Church Father's? I'm hungry for more and want to understand. Thank you! 🙏
@@vigilantezackuh nope it’s not. Try again. There was only one truth at the beginning. Not multiple truths. Protestantism is a new invention literally invented by a man named Luther. 😂 even kids know that.
This is an amazing video which you produced. All this thorough theological analysis, I admit, is generally unknown to us Greek Orthodox Christians. We usually stand with reverence to famous early Church fathers (like John Chrysostom ("the one with a mouth of gold"), Basil of Ceasareia etc), who wrote thousands of pages in Greek, but almost none of us has any book of them in their house, or ever read one. The main reason is that they wrote in an ancient form of the Greek that we speek today (aka Ancient Greek), and there have not been many efforts to produce translations for the modern Greek Orthodox Christian, due to a stubborn notion of Greek Church scholars up until some decades ago, which was like "If you want to read Plato or Aristotle or Basil of Ceasareia or even the Bible, you had better learn ancient Greek than have a translation in modern Greek that you speak and understand". On the other hand, English- or French- or German- speaking peoples couldn't care less about learning ancient Greek, and that's the reason there are early translations in English French German etc since the 16th and 17th cent. On the other hand, one can easily find translations of their books in English, produced by English speaking Protestant scholars. We also stand with reverence to our church tradition, which is mainly oral, but we do not do much homework or study on these subjects. I always thought that Protestants, in general, did their homework and study much better than us. I have learnt much from this video and thank you very much! What I never understood is why, after the Reformists left the Roman Catholic Church, they never approached or return, might say, to the Orthodox Church, which would seem only natural.
About what you call stubborn Greek scholars, well up until around the 17th century, Greek is said to be significantly similar from Ancient Greek to the 17th century. So those Protestant and Roman Catholic missionaries who went to Occupated Geeece and who sought to translate old ecclesiastical texts into modern Greek - on the basis that occupied Greeks are uneducated and illiterate and couldn’t understand - was actually their strategy to indoctrinate us with their doctrines through their translations.
Also after the 17 century, it seems the Greek language which had been quite consistent from Ancient Greece to then, had begun to become quite modern and different. But at this time, the Church began to produce scholar-theologians like saints Nikodimos of Mt Athos, Athanasius Parios, and Makarios Notaras (of Corinth), as well as Oikonomos Oikonomides. Again, the idea that occupied Greeks were uneducated and left in darkness by the ecclesiastical hierarchy is western propaganda
@@dikaioskyrios thanx for the enlightening info. I must insist on the language barrier. One notices that Jay at the end of the video holds some books (thanx Jay!) written in English. This is no coincidence, since he speaks English. That means, no matter what his knowledge of ancient Greek is, he prefers using books in English. All I am saying is that Jay, and all English speaking people may study, learn, know and understand much, much more than modern Greeks, because the material they use is translated in plain English, at least 150 years now, that they can understand, whereas modern Greeks have not the same convenience, since all those wonderful texts from the Greek early Church fathers have not been translated in the language that modern Greeks can understand, or their translations, if they really exist, it is not that easy to trace. Is like providing Jay with Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, written also in English, but it is Middle English, and ask of him to understand it. I am quite sure he will meet some trouble in the process, that's all I am saying, and it's possible he will prefer a translation in English that he will understand. PS Early Church fathers, before any Schism, that wrote solely in Latin, are entirely unknown in Greece. An example is St. Augustine, a Saint of both Orthodox and Catholic Churches. The West knows and studied his works since centuries ago in translations, whereas modern Greeks don't have a clue about his books and we only know that's he's just a Saint.
Please pray for me for one step away to be Orthodox. Anyone have a suggestion for me to explain my recent Pastor (Charismatic) in a manner way that I will leave his church without disrespecting him. I’ve been learning about Orthodoxy for last 6 months and I’m considering to convert. Thank you
@@zealousideal I already baptized before Pascha, glory to God, i think this is the best decision i’ve ever made. Orthodoxy to the death, there is no looking back.
Hey Jay! I appreciate what you share, it's thought provoking and insightful. I do have some questions though. From what i have been told, non-resistance was a part of the early apostolic doctrine. Is this true and if so, haven't the Orthodox church left that point? Also, what is the history of icons? I can't find too much written about it by church fathers before Nicene council. Was it something passed on from the first apostles, or was it something that came more with making Christianity part of the Roman empire? All the best!
Non-resistance? Never heard of it. In what context or relating to what? Grace? St Luke painted the first icon of the Theotokos, the Mother of God. Considering the very first Christians were Jewish and strict monotheists, one would expect a massive resistance to them. The fact that there is no early resistance to icons , as you mention not finding anything about them discussed by the Fathers, is telling - under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, icons became a major testimony to the Incarnation. The Fathers would only have discussed icons if they were not received from the their predecessors and consequently regarded as heretical. The first real objections appear in the record only after Muslims were converting and conquering Christian lands and they initiated iconoclasms. The Jews jumped on the same bandwagon - interestingly both faiths deny the Incarnation. Luckily the Seventh Council, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, for once and for all settled the issue for the Church. To be an iconoclast implies a denial of the Incarnation, the foundational Truth of Orthodoxy.
@Elias Trolin It should also be noted that iconography was prescribed by God himself for the Tabernacle. Examples include the hammered golden cherubim for the Mercy Seat (Exod 25:18), the cherubim embroidered into the curtains (Exod 26:1, 31), the pomegranates alternating with the golden bells along the hem of the high priest's vestments (Exod 28:31-35), etc. Icons were thus also present in Solomon's Temple, which subsumed all that was present in the Tabernacle and added to it carved cherubim, palm trees, flowering plants, and lions on the walls and doors (1 Kgs 6:29, 32, 35; 7:36). The iconography of both purposely invokes the paradise Garden of Eden, in which man dwelt with God freely and in full communion. It, and the layout of the structure itself, recreated in a mystical, incarnational way heaven on earth-that is, they were truly God's dwelling place on earth with man. It's why Moses was instructed to construct the Tabernacle precisely according to the pattern he was shown on Mount Sinai/Horeb (Exod 25:8-9, 40). We also have archaeological confirmation that iconography (frescoes and mosaics of biblical figures and scenes) were present in both ancient synagogues (Judaism was _not_ iconoclastic until its reform into Rabbinic Judaism _after_ the rise of Christianity) and early Christian churches. We even have examples for both in the same place from the same time period: Dura-Europos, from c. AD 230-250, thus predating the First Council of Nicaea by a full century. You can do a web image search for both "Dura-Europos church" and "Dura-Europos synagogue" to see them for yourself. All the evidence that we have available to us, when reasonably assessed, shows us that neither the ancient Israelites nor the Second Temple Jews were iconoclastic. The Church itself arose out of Second Temple Judaism and adopted quite naturally for its places of worship the structure, iconography, and worship style (i.e., liturgy) of the synagogue at that time, with which both the Jews _as well as_ the God-fearing Gentiles had been familiar for centuries.
I was born Armenian orthodox, just like (almost) every Armenian. Last year i really gave my life to Christ, began reading the bible and other books. I am still a "protestant" however i dont necesserly want to label myself. Jay do you have any book recommendations about the real orthodox faith or orthodoxy vs roman catholicism vs protestants etc. I am really open en want the Spirit to guide me. God bless you bro
A good book would be The Mystery of Faith by Met. Hilarion Alfeyev. Its pretty much an introduction and full rundown of the faith. I found it helpful when I converted and some wonderful UA-cam channels are Patristic Nectar and Trisagion Films
Honestly, I would just recommend reading the Church Fathers. It isn't so much a comparison of the traditions (in most cases), but they clearly show the mindset of the Church throughout the ages; which points directly to the one and only Church that has preserved it to this day. Holy Orthodoxy. You can also study the councils and, in particular, read the canons. It's impossible to read the canons with an open mind and not see a clear refutation of Protestantism and Papism. God bless and may the Lord bless your journey, brother.
If you deny penal substitution, how do you make sense of the messianic prophecy of Isaiah 53? "Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush Him and cause Him to suffer. And when His soul is made a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand" (Isaiah 53:10). Also, we can simply say that the 2nd eternal person of the Trinity, the son, volunteered before the foundations of the earth to be damned in the place of sinners, thereby it is not the case that penal substitution breaks up the Trinity since the will of the Father and the Will of the son are operating in harmony. Is it not the case that the sacrificial system in the Old System is in fact a form of penal substitution, and if so, is it not also the case that the New Testament repeatedly affirms that Christ is a guilt offering for sinners? How is it, exactly, that we are purchased by the blood of Jesus without an instantaneous declaration of us being not guilty? How does Eastern Orthodoxy view penal substitution?
listen to father stephen de young on the atonement, penal substitution is a narrow thesis, which relies on a misunderstanding of the day of atonement in the old testament. it's not paying off an angry God. it's about the death that separates man and God, brought in by man and the devil, being overcome by the very glory/life of God himself on the Cross. The idea of justification as an imputed taxonomic status was literally unknown until luther innovated it
In 692 the Quinisext (=the Fifth-Sixth) Ecumenical Council was held at Constantinople! That Church Council intended to complete both the Fifth and the Sixth Ecumenical Councils that had omitted to draw up disciplinary canons! Among the canons of the Quinisext Council there was a codification of the Bible books! Actually, that codification was a synthesis of earlier local councils and of several early Church fathers! In 787 the Seventh Ecumenical Council upheld the decision of the Quinisext Council! That was the first ecumenical synthesis of the Bible books!
Actually, strictly speaking, Lutherans wouldn’t affirm baptismal regeneration so much as baptismal non-imputation of sin. But for the Protestant non-imputation just gets you back to Zero. Not guilty. To get the righteousness you need to see God, you need the active righteousness of Christ imputed to you, and I don’t think ANY Protestant accepts that occurs by baptism, or else every baptized Protestant would persevere and go to heaven. You need a hypothetical severability in the usage of the sacraments, in terms of their effect, to justify the fact not everyone is saved, esp. for Lutherans.
Philaret Of New York Lutherans teach baptismal regeneration, it’s in Luther’s catechism. I’m well aware of the various scholastic Protestant views. catechism.cph.org/en/sacrament-of-holy-baptism.html
Does anyone have any advice for someone who was baptised Orthodox as a child but never explored their faith through the church beyond that and is now finding deep solace within Roman Catholicism? The conversion process is confusing and I'm not sure if I'd be doing a disservice to my ancestors but the Orthodox faith has always seemed so alienating to someone living within a second generation of diaspora Greeks.
sss Rome isn’t it. Stick around here and watch Jay’s content. See his Top 10 on Roman Catholicism. Also, check out Norwegian Nous, he’s a Deacon and he might be able to help.
Uh I Don’t think that was ever an option for him nor crossed his mind. 😂😂😂 That’s like saying can you do a video saying “10 reasons why you’re not not an alien 👽 “. 😂
Cults live on the unpaid bills of the church. Walter Martin said. I would say protestant rises on the unpaid bills of the Orthodox. And the Orthodox Church is bankrupt. How come I have never come across an Orthodox Church in Haiti, 36 years since I was born and grew up in this country. That's a shame, if the points you are making are true. I am not trying to make a case for protestantism nor defend them, but we have tested Christianity here and it works. I have seen many life that have been changed for the glory of God. Demons have been cast out in the name of Jesus. Your arguments are convincing theoricaly but not practically in my context at least. God bless...
Push through it, brothers. The Lords Church never fell and the faith of the apostles has been preserved to this day! Any uncomfort you feel now, will pale in comparison to the experience of the grace of His Church and right worship. May the Lord bless you both on your journey.
Read The Scriptures. Gods gospel comes in power. Justification by faith is absent in their church. Form a relationship with Jesus not a church. If youre a believer He lives in you. Ask God to teach you to hear His voice. These guys are constantly stroking their dicks at how awesome and superior their church but theyre practically useless in worldwide evangelism from what Ive seen. Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it. ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Seek Jesus not religion. Folks that arent satisfied in Christ seem to want an experience like Orthodoxy. I experienced Jesus in a powerful way under Derek Prince and David Wilkersons teachings. A W Tozer is another great one. These men knew The Lord very intimately. There is a great apostasy and many of our churches are way far off the mark of the first century church. But theres still very annointed churches. ua-cam.com/video/8dUvO0FmsDM/v-deo.html
@@MrDavicovic The point of the story of the Penitent Thief is that he did no works. You are exactly making my point. If God can forgive anyone he pleases, and he can, then there is no requirement for works.
@@MrDavicovic no - repentance is the spiritual baptism, and the water baptism is a nice-to-have; Water baptism is a great idea and a way to show people you're a Christian and hopefully influence them to come to Jesus, but it's not needed for salvation
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Protestants built America. Orthodox submit to Communism in Eastern Europe. Why did they not stand up to evil?
Viking Finn Bruh.
We did fight back and 350,000 Orthodox priests were murdered along with 10s of millions of lay people. “Blessed are those who are persecuted for My name’s sake.” Your comment exposes your ignorance of history.
America is Satanic and Masonic. Protestants failed to protect the West without being persecuted and slaughtered. I’ll stick with the True Church.
Btw, Eastern Europe is still Orthodox.
Viking Finn communism was punishment for the Orthodox’s tolerance of the bogomils. Ain’t no way the Roman Empire going to put up with that ancient evil.
maplebob23 Punishment Of Orthodox Countries doesn’t negate the truth of the Orthodox Faith.
@@vikingfinn7250 In eastern Europe the Orthodox Church has suffered because of fanatics like you! Priests and the faithful were killed, tortured, exiled and humiliated by any means! Our churches were destroyed or misused by godless ideologists! Everyone was brainwashed to be an atheist! The Orthodox Church has suffered for almost seventy years, but that crucified Church is risen
from the dead! That crucified Church is glorious in the blood of our Saviour! That crucified Church is glorious in the blood of the martyrs!
You may hate us but we do love you!
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:14 Reason 1a - Sola Scriptura (Biblical Canon, Traditions)
04:01 Oral History, Authentic Authorship
05:58 Reason 1b - Biblical Context (Private Devotional, Order of Worship)
07:01 Semblance of Church Fathers, Reformation Pillars
08:54 Reason 2 - Sola Fide (Justification, Imputation)
10:08 Nestorian Damnation, Real Presence
12:06 Pillar of Truth, Historical Comparison, Augustine
14:28 Regeneration, Noetic Effects, Depravity
15:30 Divine Merit Debt, Penal Substitutionary Atonement
17:14 Reason 3 - Invisible Church (Denial of Historical Institution)
19:31 Apostolic Judgments, New Israel
20:29 Reason 4 - No Four Marks (Disunity, Unholiness, DIY Church, Sacraments)
21:55 Apostolic Succession, Priestly Authority
24:03 Roman Catholicism (ua-cam.com/video/575DbpuxyNY/v-deo.html)
25:57 Reason 5 - Liturgical Abolition (Worship Rites, Rock Services, Charismatics)
29:03 Reason 6 - Individual Interpretation (Denominations, Creed, Jesus Caricatures)
31:43 Reason 7 - Ahistorical Lineage (Elders, Seminaries)
32:51 Reason 8 - Heresy Revivals (Councils, Gnosticism, Arianism, Marcionism)
33:42 Reason 9 - Denial of Pentecost (Great Apostasy Theory, No Dogmas)
34:58 Reason 10 - Works De-Emphasis (Fasting, Almsgiving)
36:57 Catholic/Protestant Dialectic
38:24 Protestant Cross-Persecution
39:25 Anti-Intellectualism, Civil State
40:29 Outro / Book Recommendations
Podruchnik Thank you!
Glad to help, @orthodox
Thanks!
Glad to help!
Awesome ... thanks
Roman Catholic background myself and protestant background with my husband, best thing I ever did was to convert my family to Orthodoxy.
Name Saint Joanna Exactly.
Sherry Burns Gnostics aren’t even Christian.
@@noname-by3qz politics have politicians who lie, deceive, molest kids etc. should we stop elections or cancel democracy altogether? Doctors deceive, molest kids etc should we stop trusting the medical profession and work out remedies ourselves? Teachers deceive, molest kids etc. Should we stop taking our kids to school to learn? Lawyers deceive, molest kids etc. Should we stop seeking legal counsel in courts? I hope you get my point...
Welcome aboard. I wish you and your family the best. God Bless you
sherry, if they do not subscribe to the nicene creed, it's a fair statement.
what hath aeons, multiple gods, an evil god the father, a sophia figure, private knowledge, an evil world, a jesus who did not truly appear in human flesh, only spirit being good, judas bidding the actual will of jesus who truly wanted him to give him away etc... have in common with christianity?
there are things that christianity is and is not. and if one does not subscribe to the nicene creed, then point.blank.period. they're not christian in the truest sense of the word.
orthodoxy is hard core like that. it draws the line in the sand. pick the side ya wanna be on.
the gnostic is not my brother. and i personally don't expect people who purposefully purpose fanciful pagan who do not confess the trinity and entertain fables to enter unto the kingdom of heaven.
Brothers and sisters, please pray for me. I told my parents (who have been baptists their whole lives) I’m going to be leaving to orthodoxy. They are very upset, so please pray for god to open their hearts to the truth.
How did it go?
@@blockpartyvintage1568 much better after a year! Chrismated, getting married July 1, so far so good!
They’ve accepted that I left, but they’re still not supportive of it necessarily
May God have mercy on your parents and help them find their way to the truth
How glad i hear that, welcome home, to The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Orthodox Church 🙏
I've had several instances where protestants have tried to cite the Fathers as evidence of "sola" theology; such as saying Irenaus used the words "scripture" and "alone" in a particular writing, as if he is speaking in the same context as a lutheran or calvinist. My response was that you don't get to cherry-pick your patristics; if you want to cite them, cite ALL of them, including passages about bishops, the Eucharist, etc, all that stuff that "smells too catholic" for them...
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
@ttff4444 lmfao but they do agree on the dogmas that are the foundation of the true Church. They all agree on apostolic succession, the Eucharist truly being Christ’s body and blood, the sacraments, etc etc
@yurashichka not according to all the Church Fathers.
@@lbwnova6654 wrong but good try. 👍
@@EpistemicAnthony “all” the church fathers? lol.
I was raised going to non denominational churches. In my teens, I neglected my faith and got into smoking weed, drinking, porn, etc. after high school I got into psychedelics like mushrooms and acid. One day I took a bunch of mushrooms and I looked up at this crucifix that my friend had on his wall. I scoffed at it. I laughed at it saying, “ why do you have this dead guy on your wall?”, mocking it. In that moment, I felt a dread that is almost indescribable. I was filled with self hatred and nihilism. I remember saying ,” existence is disgusting.” I couldn’t help but feel like my life would forever be painful and that I was better off dead. I cried and cried and even asked my friend for a knife so that I could cut myself. That was one of my darkest moments but also one of my most pivotal moments. I saw what life was like completely separated from God. It’s almost like I saw my own little slice of hell. Since then, it’s been a slow journey back into church. I was never the most intellectual or disciplined when it came to studying. All of the differences in theology and all of the big words throw me off. I was introduced to things like the gnostic gospels, law of attraction, and other “esoteric” or “spiritual” schools of thought but that always felt wrong to me. I finally decided to let all of that go and get back to my roots which is the Bible, but non-denominational church no longer seems appealing to me. I’ve been watching a lot of videos on the differences between Protestant denominations, orthodoxy, and catholicism, but trying to decide which is the way to go is so hard, especially for someone like me who struggles intellectually with all these different theological concepts. I say all of this because I am feeling lost. I know that God is real. I trust and believe in Jesus, but I sometimes wonder if that is enough for me to be saved. I am a sinner and I’ve tried to be better to little avail. I still struggle with things like porn and sometimes weed and I feel like I have no one to guide me. Maybe that’s my fault, idk. I can say this: Eastern Orthodoxy has caught my eye and I love all of the stories and history that comes from it. I also love the beauty of the icons. If anyone ends up reading this, please pray for me. The closest EO church is an hour away from me and is so different than what I’m used to, but a part of me feels a call towards it.
Ask the Holy Spirit for Help - He will lead you my brother.
@zachariaseymore5202 Thank you for the wisdom brother. Your comment came at a great time for me. God bless you.
Ask Jesus to send you the Holy Spirit. The Comforter will lead you into all truth as you repent and are obedient to the Words of Christ. Find fellowship and perhaps church counselor to discuss questions you must have. Faith in Christ and His words will lead you into all truth. It will take time to understand His teachings in contrast to the world and your fallen nature. God bless you as you learn to serve Him by serving others.
God bless you man, how is your journey going ?
Don't worry so much brother. I am a weekend meth binger, for the past ten years (26-36). I am yet to go to church, though I have been strongly compelled to do so by God. I come from a non religious family, and an atheistic public school education, though I am genuinely very intelligent. All of this means nothing, since God has shown me he is real.
It's time to take up our crosses , and prove our love for Him by getting in to church!
I'll comment again in here, after I have been to church, for the first time this Sunday!
I watched this when you first made it and thought I wasn't convinced, but I haven't been satisfied with protestant churches since. Rewatching today, and I think I'm all the way there. Lord willin' and the creek don't rise, we'll be going to the little Orthodox mission here tomorrow.
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
@Cindy Dyer Any updates? God bless. 🤗
I am kind of stuck in Protestantism right now, but after having learned about Orthodoxy and then attending Protestant worship services, I have found these things that are well-intentioned but quite irreverent and even blasphemous. Protestantism is cancer.
Hi Jay :) I'm considering becoming Orthodox and this video was SO HELPFUL. Thank you! And I'm looking forward to your video about Catholicism as well.
ua-cam.com/video/IXPeKdKBZhc/v-deo.html
Yes we know how lame Pentecostal apologists are 🙄🥱
thank you! i very much hope that christians in america who are so unaware of christian history will do their homework, learn of christian history, and come home to the eastern orthodox church!
O. G. Amen.
Eormanric Gutum All history, including the history in the Bible? Hmmm.
Eormanric Gutum History vs Bible? Engaging in false dialectics I see.
@@nickys3225
you will have to do a history lesson on how the early church complied the bible.
i''ll give you a hint: it took hundreds of years. i wanna say a good 400-500 years before there was a solid canon. the early church has to decide what books reflected christian truth and which books were false, as there was a lot out there pretending to be truthful like gnostic books, such as thomas or judas. it also did not fall out of the sky in king james english. the same men who came together to compile the bible you now read were orthodox men. and martin luther got the bright idea to take books out of the bible, that even jesus himself read, and now protestants are missing a whole bunch of god's revealed written revelation in the bible.
if not for orthodox people coming together a good half a century after the death of jesus to really solidify what books were worthy to be scripture and not scripture based on church tradition (i.e. that trinity is real, jesus is god, mary is mother of god, the eucharist is the real body and blood etc...) then you'd have no bible to read now.
i know all of that sounds weird to a protestant. but i am speaking truth.
please do your research on how the bible came about and who compiled it....
and you'll have a different view, as it did not in the year 100 appear as it does now, complied, with an OT and NT, with chapters and verses. in english. etc.
protestants do not know the history of the very book they read.
Eormanric Gutum you must be a baptist because with history your church and it’s modern manmade non Apostolic doctrines are refuted because you follow the teachings of John Smyth, Roger Williams, etc.
Thanks Jay.. I was a 20yr old baptist till my brother introduced me to Orthodoxy. We had fierce debates, but the more i tried to dig dirt on Orthodoxy the more i realised how wrong my baptist believes were. My whole world came crushing down. So glad to have found theee Church. Makes soooo much sense.
YHWH Rapha. ua-cam.com/video/QeqpY4TcZNI/v-deo.html
This is where I am at currently. I feel almost like I am going through a crisis in my faith and my husband is being so gracious on listening to my arguments against protenstantism (we are currently reformed presbyterian).
@@Jess-cw6tf any updates?
@yurashichka is this some kind of sarcasm?
@@Jess-cw6tfI been saying the same thing to myself lately. “I’m having a crises of faith.”
I was in Israel recently. We did end up at the Via Dolorosa. Protestants went shopping while Orthodox and Catholic believers were connecting to Jesus and walking with croses as though the place was sacred and meanigful. Stunned me with the differnce. Will never forget it.
Sounds about right. I'm Catholic and have a lot of Catholic and Orthodox friends and we make fun of Protestants a lot.
You're not the first pilgrim to the Holy Land that has told me this. As Catholics, we connect with the physical nature of places where Christ and the Saints walked. Protestants believe that it's just a place with some historical value, but it is no more holy than their metal building church back home.
@@Saul2PaulCatholic Certainly. Thank you, Sir Jay and to all. You inspire me.
@@yurashichka thanks 😊
@@landsknecht8654 pathetic
As a Protestant for over thirty years (and someone who has been looking at Orthodoxy for the past several), I found this interesting. Thanks, Jay, for taking the time to address these issues. I will have another listen and carry out some more research. We might disagree on some little bit here or there, but in the main it was (as we say in Britain), “spot on.” Thanks and Happy Christmas to you and yours!
Do you know of any confessional Calvinists or Lutherans who have seriously engaged the claims/doctrines of Orthodoxy?
@@NnannaO You can find plenty of engagement with Orthodox doctrine. It's not that there isn't engagement, it's that the paradigms and philosophical foundations are sometimes different.
@@konroh2 Can you please point me toward some theologians? Thanks for the response.
@@konroh2 Thanks. One more question. Do you know whether Protestantism and the essence energies distinction could be compatible? I haven't studied the latter very much.
@@NnannaO I think it's very much compatible. Good question. I actually think Thomas Aquinas was in agreement with essence/energy. And Protestant theology agrees, usually the understanding is outlined as God's communicable and non-communicable attributes. God is infinite in His attribute of love, but we can also show love in a similar way that God can. God mysteriously contains all His attributes infinitely and perfectly, yet limits Himself in His expressions. I think Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox views of the Godhead are all compatible and all can learn from each other.
I’m just learning about orthodoxy but it’s blowing my mind. The Church gave us the Bible not the other way around 🤯 And I recently had to realize that I believe shortly after the apostles the church apostatized until folks who believe what I believe came along and now it’s all figured out and I can go to multiple churches provided I agree with most of what was say. So 1200 years of darkness and now basically at my discretion. 🤦♀️ I can’t carry on with that.
The Church is Christ's body, apostles who were the foundations of the Church also wrote Holy Scripture. The Church did not give the Bible. The Church is fed and nurtured by the text. And when did Christianity (the Church) apostatize? All Christians agree with the doctrines of the 1st 5 centuries of Christianity.
@@konroh2 So the apostles, who were the foundations of the Church under Christ, wrote the New Testament Scriptures. But they did not give the Bible? It looks to me like those two statements oppose each other. The Church is the pillar and ground of truth. This does not contradict the infallibility of Scriptures, but rather that Scriptures are not separate from the Church.
@@andrewdamerau2742 I agree Holy Scripture and Holy Truth go together, but which one nurtures the other? The Church is refined by the truth of Scripture, Scripture should be properly interpreted by the Church, but the Church doesn't correct the text, the text corrects the Church. The Church is the ground of the truth because it has holy people who are living in the truth of Scripture.
@@konroh2 I can agree to some extent, but I still think it's problematic putting one above the other. The Scriptures are part of the Church's teaching. The Scriptures nurture us Christians as part of the Church's nurturing. The Scriptures don't themselves correct the Church, nor does the Church correct the text (although it did formulate the correct cannon). We can see this in all the different churches that claim to be led by Scripture and yet preach different things.
@@andrewdamerau2742 The Scriptures aren't part of Church teaching, they are the primary part. What teaching is above Scripture?
And Scriptures properly applied do correct the Church. And the Church did not formulate the correct canon. That is a misnomer that many people think. There was no Council to determine canon--that actually would make Church above canon. The fact is Church recognized canon, they didn't formulate it, they didn't authorize it. Please correct this misunderstanding in your thinking.
And finally hermeneutics can be complex, but don't misrepresent complex meaning for lack of meaning. We all must recognize that there is one truth and one truth only. Yet this complexity doesn't mean that there is a salvific truth not found in Scripture, or that God wasn't quite clear in the text.
As a Protestant examining Orthodoxy and seeing a lot more of the historical grounding, I really appreciated a lot of your points, Jay. Very well explained and articulated. The fact that tradition is necessary for even accepting the canon was the biggest jump-start in my journey of examining all this, and with more of a Wesleyan background, I'm very much already accepting of doctrines like theosis and synergism. I think the biggest hang-up for me right now, personally, is that when I visit Orthodox parishes around me, I just don't see a lot of the fruit I would expect to see from "THE" historic body of Christ, whereas I do actually see a lot of the things you point out (fasting, giving to the poor -- even the rare exorcism here and there) in my moderate-charismatic, evangelical circles. So I guess my struggle is not on a theological level (where I'm totally on-board with Orthodoxy and the church councils), but on a pragmatic one. Why don't I see the fruit in evangelism, missions, etc. among the Orthodox that I've been around? It seems like I see a lot of passion for the Lord and the life of the Spirit among my evangelical brothers and sisters, while a lot of Orthodox kinda seem like the "frozen chosen" to me. Is it just me? Not at all trying to be demeaning, I'm just honestly wrestling with this. It's a lot of cognitive dissonance thinking that Orthodoxy is right "on paper" but I don't know if I see it working in practice. I dunno, maybe it's just me.
I’m not orthodox, but I think that’s where I’m headed. Have you spoken to a Father from a church near you? Maybe you could ask them this very question over email or even in person. I hope that you will eventually get your answer!! :)
@@shayd.9853 Yes, I’ve spoken to one priest in my area and his answers have all been courteous and helpful. But again, it’s still kind of like it sounds great in theory but I have yet to see real vibrancy in the community. Planning on visiting a couple other parishes nearby to see if they’re different. I need to see that the Orthodox Church is zealous for missions, discipleship, community outreach - things I believe were vital to the early church - before I can personally commit.
ua-cam.com/video/QeqpY4TcZNI/v-deo.html
Don't get caught up on legalism at the start of your journey. Crawl before you run. Look at yourself and learn to let go of this world before you can reach a state of stillness and a higher state of spirituality by being closer to God. What I'm saying is you need to reverse your way of thinking when it comes to orthodoxy.
You don't see the fruits from "churches" because "the church" is Satan's greatest accomplishment today.
THE most dangerous place for any follower of Yeshua today is in a church.
Seek The Most High, reading your KJV (NOT NKJV- I have not yet shared my year-long deep dive video into Bible translations) with the ESSENTIAL guidance of Holy Spirit. Yeshua saves!
Hmm! Maybe I should become Orthodox. I am Protestant and feel like I know very little history, and I feel like the church I attend is a big clubhouse that is just a safe zone for families. But we have little agreement or theological cohesion, and theres no training happening, just sermonettes that sound the same and say the same thing. Not deep.
As a former prot, converting to Orthodoxy I must encourage you take the time to investigate Orthodoxy... prot churches are all the same, empty and shallow.... because although many do contain some truth, they have an incomplete understanding, and if what you genuinely seek is the truth, you will never be satisfied with Protestant teaching, worship style or outreach. Not to mention the mental gymnastics required to understand the bible when viewing through a prot lense
inTruthbyGrace Jesús was talking about the worship of the Pharisees. You follow modern baptist traditions of men as a disciple of John Smyth not Christ and the apostles. You read only what your pastors teach not the whole bible orthodoxy follows the scriptures when Paul says “So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter” (2thess2:15) was Paul preaching against what Jesus said NO he’s teaching Apostolic tradition that we are supposed to follow not a single one of you Protestants especially you Baptist’s follow only the orthodox truly follow the word of God and follow the apostles you follow what Christ spoke against we follow the traditions handed down orally and through written teachings by the apostles. Without our tradition the spread out manuscripts of the New Testament would not be compiled into a bible for you to thump and misinterpret
inTruthbyGrace you are teaching the doctrines of men and their interpretations you follow the preachers of the second great awakening, John Smyth, Roger Williams, and people like the lunatic Stephen Anderson you are a disciple of baptist tradition not Christ and the one church he established he did not establish your church.
Well, Chris, I encourage you to check us out! Orthodoxy might not be for everybody but if it is for you, NOTHING else will work. Believe me, as I tried most everything before I knew the Orthodox Church even existed.
T.V. Weber will an orthodox priest baptize my son that will be born this May. I am not orthodox yet but want to be by the grace of God.
The thing that is really baffling to me with the Protestants' recoiling at the mere mention of the world 'tradition' is that the Greek word "Παράδοσις" (Paradosis) literally means "the handing down of something to the next generations". When I say "Εγώ παραδίδω" it simply means "I hand down to you" (i.e I tradition to you). There is absolutely no distinction or tension between the writings, in what later were compiled into the Bible (scriptural texts) and the oral tradition (handing down to). They are complementary (συναμφότερον). That's all it is. You would think that with so many authoritative Protestant scriptural scholars this simple fact would not have escaped them. But alas, it seems pride and ego are too powerful of forces and can make many go blind...Good work Jay. We are waiting for that Byzantium t-shirt.
Exactly! It’s absurd to believe that Athanasius walked into his office one day in 367 and found a New Testament on his desk. What do they think was going on between 33 A.D. and then?
Yep. They automatically associate tradition with 'man-made tradition' but it is not! It is Holy/Sacred Tradition and as you said there is absolutely no distinction or tension between the writings that became the Bible and oral tradition.
@@annkellett7592 Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
@@ThroughKinAndClan Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Protestant theologians can only function as such if the agree to the intellectual dishonesty, which, in addition to sola scriptura, is their other idol.
Jay, Thanks for posting this video (this is my first time watching you). I just celebrated my 20th anniversary of being received into the Orthodox Church. Many of your top 10 reasons why you're no longer Protestant are the same as mine. As I studied the footnotes of many theological books over the years, I kept noticing references to the Church Fathers and the Deuterocanonical books. When I studied at a highly-respected Evangelical graduate school of theology, we rushed through the Early Church and Roman Catholicism to spend more time on the Reformation and what followed. It wasn't until I heard a lecture in the late 1990s from a well-known former Evangelical who spoke about his conversion to the Orthodox Church that I realized I knew nothing about the Orthodox. After 2.5 years of study I "came home."
Thank you for taking the time to lay this out so beautifully. I cannot speak this eloquently but these are the same ten reasons that I converted to Orthodoxy.
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Jay you were a big part of me coming over back in 2005-2006. Love your channel! Oh how it has grown in the last 10 years or so! Wow! Keep up the good work!
Jay wasn’t even orthodox back then 😂😂😂 he explained all of that in another video his whole background and when he converted. He was Protestant until like 2004 and then didn’t become Ortho until like 09 or later. 😂
Thank you for clearing things up for me. I have just recently started going to an Orthodox Church and I absolutely love it.
I have just converted to orthodoxy. A couple of the reasons why popped up in this video.
Surprised you didn't mention the ridiculous beliefs of pre-trib rapture, and many Protestants disgusting support for the government of Israel. I live in the southern US Bible Belt and it's all you can find here.
Cognitive Dissident those are features of a lot of evangelicals but not historic Protestantism
Dispensationalism is held in many protestant circles, but not all. I agree with you on both counts though. It's a huge problem.
So no one believes in a rapture of the church?
@@RunningRlust96 I would say start with Mark 13: 23-27 for starters, then check out some "pre-trib rapture refuted" material, or a good debate on the subject pray about it and form your own opinion, there's decent enough stuff on youtube. Please dont take my word for it. One more thing... considering that there is difference of opinion on this important issue, just think....what if your belief happened to be part of a grand deception of the elect? Just worth thinking about...Love and God Bless
When we interpret Scripture it's not that we recognize national Israel as God-inspired, but I think we should certainly believe that Abraham was given promises that have been and will be fulfilled.
I so appreciate what you bring here. The knowledge is so needed. Thank you.
In light of the failings of Protestantism in the US I become interested in Othodoxy. Good food for thought, thanks Jay 👍
So tired but can’t stop listening...
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Top tens are so 2015. Big eyes on thumbnails are Current Year.
Extremely edifying talk. You covered all the imperative reasons! This is gold!
No joke Jay, Got 'woke' up by the holy spirit 10 years ago - and so began a painful, confusing journey. This is probably the most important video on you tube, bar none. Might have saved me a journey of madness through 10 protestant denominations and many demonic encounters. Love you bro. Someday soon will post something, lots of real work to be done.
Could you make a top 10 reasons I’m not Mormon? I’ve been Mormon for the longest time and I’m interested in Eastern Orthodox but I want to see the direct differences.
Caleb McMullen I suspect one of the reasons he would give, and one primary reason I give when Mormons come to my door, is that there is no such thing as a Great Apostasy. Jesus promised the preservation and continuity of his Church. The idea that the Church collectively and completely fell into apostasy to the point of needing reestablishment after 1700 years is to render Jesus’s promises as lies.
@@miqueasbello5382 Exactly, another big reason would probably be that the Mormon concept of God is drastically different from traditional Christian and Abrahamic understanding. Mormons aren't even monotheists so I don't know how they can call themselves Christian, and they believe God lives on a planet called Kolab and that when you die you get to level up and become a God on your own planet which is utterly bizarre. They believe God was literally just an alien who leveled up and became exhalted. In contrast to traditional monotheistic thought, God is not a physical being within the material world but rather transcends creation entirely and is the ultimate grounding of all of reality. The Mormon concept of God just gives you an infinite regress, while we know like Thomas Aquinas would argue that there must be a first mover and ultimate grounding to everything that's not contingent upon anything.
I'm currently a Mormon and have been inquiring about Orthodoxy myself. The main differences are 1. What we are taught regarding apostasy (why restore a church that never disappeared?) and 2. The function of the Priesthood. I spoke with a local Orthodox priest in SLC with my questions and it was one of the best 2 hours of my life. I was giddy for two days.
@@asceticfeminine Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Loved the video john! I converted last year on the feast day of St John the Baptist. Most of my family is calvinist/reformed but Orthodoxy tends to suck reformers in for some reason.
Your note at the end about protestantism being anti-intellectual was so true. I remember a time my preacher told us to stop thinking so much and I was unable to articulate it at the time, but I knew that the comment was just goofy. The idea you can believe in Jesus but not think it to be true as well is just absurd. In order to serve our Lord to our full human potential, we must be dedicated to him in harmony of body soul and mind like the harmony of the Trinity. We know this is true because we are to fast and do good work (body), put our faith in Christ (soul), and set our minds on things above (mind).
Jay,
Can’t tell you how much I appreciate you laying all of that out there like you did. As a *current* Protestant (Baptist/Non-Denominational 🤷🏻♂️) you’ve inspired me to challenge why I believe what I believe. I proudly proclaim Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, but, you’ve helped shed some light on areas of my faith that I now realize have been sort of tugging at me for longer than I knew. I think I might be finding myself where you were many years ago; still searching for Truth. I’ve begun reading some of the blogs posted on the AFR app, I’ve watched a couple of Orthodox services on UA-cam and I must say...even those fringe exposures illicit an emotional, Holy-Spiritual response; I KNOW that’s the presence of the Holy Spirit. There are still many subjects I’ll need to sit down with someone to ask questions to, like: the Eucharist becoming the ACTUAL BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST (as you may well know, this is a bit of a “no-no” for Evangelicals), the “seeming” worship of Mary, etc. In-spite of those questions, I recognize the Holy Spirit is tugging at me to follow Him; with everything going on in the US and around the world right now, I don’t think I have quite the same timeline as you when He began tugging at your sleeve though😉. Ultimately, I just wanted to say thank you for fighting the good fight and putting yourself out there like you have. That takes big huevos of FAITH! May God bless you for that! Also, some additional feedback: My first introduction to who you are was on your 1st? appearance on the Alex Jones Show. I was very glad to see he asked you to come back on to host the 4th Hour ( a couple times now, I think). In my humble opinion, that is a very wise move for the both of you. I hope he continues to share his platform with you as you deserve it. You bring something quite unique (intellectually based monologue and polish) that may have been missing. Hope to see you on his Show more!
Corey
How are you now? Your spiritual journey?
I know it's been two years and I hope you are well, Brother. You said you listen to AFR. Lord of Spirits has an episode that focuses on Mary. It is extremely well done and I think will answer all the questions you have.
As for the Eucharist, I have seen this repeated online and my Father likes it:
Catholics believe the Eucharist is real. Protestants believe it is symbolic. Orthodox Christians believe it is real *because* it is symbolic.
I prayed for you. ☦️
Jay Dyer. You forgot an 11th reason for not being a Protestant.
They in large aren't Royalists.
☦️🤴👑👸☦️
ua-cam.com/video/IXPeKdKBZhc/v-deo.html
@@lionofjudahlambofgod9132 Sola Scriptura nonsense
As a catechumen I'm surrounded by watchtower society types (JW's) at my workplace. I find it interesting that Charles Taze Russell claims a so-called "great apostasy" after the First Century. Could that claim be necessary because all the subsequent Councils refute and anathemize his (Russell's) anti-Trinitarianism? It's obvious to me that the answer is yes, of course it is. Great video!
And yet they insist that they are not Arians. Go figure.
Jay hasn't been protestant since 2002? bruh, i was born in 2002
Same here
18 year old gang
@@Channel-ev8yb based.
@@johnblack7524 Yeah!;
2002... but that's like yesterday, i remember it vividly
Always good stuff Jay!
The most succinct and helpful video on why the EOC is set apart from the protestant church. Thank you brother.🙏☦️
The church of muh lasers and jibber jabber
6:00 "The Bible was/is written primarily for Liturgical setting as opposed to private use." The early Christians, for the most part, would not have been able to afford books of the Bible for private devotion and secondly not able to read. Therefore it's no surprise that the Early Church assumed corporate reading as the normative way.
The earlier part against Sola Scriptura is stronger. The Church came first -before the NT.
What about when the traditions are clearly not based on anything scriptural. Is tradition higher than God's Word. Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Yeah I thought of that too
Hence, the reliability of the Textus Receptus. :) (I have not yet recorded my video sharing my in-depth research of translations, but will soon.)
@@lionofjudahlambofgod9132 Late reply, but the Bible itself is a tradition.
The church isn’t special or authoritative. The church is just the global body of those who have repented and believed in Christ. The NT scriptures came after the first people who repented and believed in Christ but that doesn’t give ‘the church’ authority over Scripture.
Excellent stuff, thank you.
Glory to God ☦️, great video
Jay is there a transcript for this? id like to be able to use it when talking with my protestant friends.
I'm sold 💯💯
Same
6:33 I learned this point as an agnostic liberal prot. The stories in the Gospels are structured as independent pericopes, specifically designed for public recitation in church. All the secular scholars know this. When I became a Christian again, Orthodoxy was the obvious choice.
Please make sure you touch on the issue of Protestant view of atonement/salvation/redemption which is Penal Substitution theory.
God cant damn God, unless jesus is a created being - Arianism or Jesus is a secondary personal subject in the incarnation - nestorianism. In either case, the doctrine requires severe christological heresy.
He did
Jay, l really enjoy and learn greatly from your videos. You better than anyone has explained eastern Orthodoxy more clearly and in a precise, objective easy to understand format; for that I'm extremely grateful. You raise such a great point when Paul let's Peter know that you are not special among the apostles. Perhaps N Fuentes feels that since Peter took a leadership role among the apostles that Rome should be the one to dictate and take over all dogma of Chrustianity regardless what the early church fathers say. Jesus gave the keys to all the apostles NOT just one apostle. God love you my brother in Christ.
Quite convincing. I'm no scholar. Thanks for recommending the orthodox study bible. I'll get one now.
Well said on Solo Scriptura… Bahnsen was a prominent influence on my grad school professor , Joe Kickasola, a strong -Reformist at CBNU
Shared to Fb ☦
I did too!! I will lose some friends but our old church either deliberately or through ignorance ignored soooo much my mind has been blown. I had to share.
Jay thanks for your work. On baptism, council of Carthage cannon 6 ch. 1 " the baptism of Christ cannot be rendered void by any perversity on the part of man, whether in administering or receiving." Just wanted to point that out as I have been studying for conversion recently ran across that one.
I am just commenting as I go through. Of it is read doesn't matter, but my mind is processing as I go along. I am REALLY starting to get it. I have moved around alot, and as a Swedish, I went to different Churches. Mostly some kind of evangelicals since the Lutheran Church in Sweden has become extremely woke and liberal. There are some evangelicals that actually got quite alot of the theology right according to Orthodox faith (by no means not all of course) But as I listen I realise I have taken to heart alot of the Orthodox teaching that I found in some evangelical Churches. But they don't have Unity, mystery, liturgy and history. Some of them have some more of the pieces to the puzzle that finally should make the beautiful picture of the Church. For instance it still exists Churches were the Priests are all men. And as almost non existing it is for a Swedish woman to admit it I do say that I have always felt more comfortable, with a man leading the Church and leading a ceremony. At least I always found it more appealing. Today I think there are more female Priests than males in the Lutheran Church. Most of them have Pride celebrations, and many Priest pick and chose from the Bible and even claim that all religions are different pathway. Nothing new, but very wrong for a Christian, especially a Priest.That is still unacceptable in most evangelical Churches. But I've had so little knowledge of the Orthodox Church before. At first I compared it to go from a two dimensional Church to a three dimensional. More depths context and wholeness. But I would now prefer to say, I've at least seen both two and three dimensional of faith before. I believe alot of people really want to live a rightful Christian life, but the Orthodox Church is almost non existing in Sweden, and people usually think it is almost identical to the Catholic Church minus the Pope. Well, there are not to many Christian left either. As a matter of fact it wouldn't surprise me if there are more muslim believers, if we count real believers, than Christian's. But the two dominating beliefs are of course atheism/darwinism and new age. I would now say that Orthodox Christianity has something more than just three dimensions. I've experienced a glimmer of the transcendent before, but just that. A glimmer, hasting away. And that I think by the grace of God to continue search for Him. I don't know if it is me, because I just discovering the Orthodox Faith or if I see and uprising of Orthodoxy in the west? It was anyway a kind of a miracle that they just happened to start a small group of of Orthodox Christianity, in my closest neighbourhood Chapel.
I have endless respect for converts. You guys have a very deep understanding of Orthodoxy because you went there after studying and investigating, while the majority of the born and raised Orthodox don't know even a quarter of your knowledge, simply because we are because we were just born in it, so we just go with it, just follow.
Thus, in born and raised Orthodox people, you can find really, reeeeally bad people, who claim to be good Christians, who claim to be Orthodox just because they were baptise as children and went a couple of times to the church.
In my country, the church, (even our Archbishop is one of them), full of nationalists and fascists. Its like, you can't be a believing person and not be far right politically. Participation in the church has became way too political.
Dont worry God will sort people out there are priests that go to Hell and priests that go to heaven. If you look deeper you will see some devout pious people too.
I would be considered far right, not a nationalist, but Orthodoxy comes first for me everytime, in fact, orthodoxy is why I'm a patriarchal, theophilic, militant, monarchist, a "far right" position
Sometimes we cant see the Gold we are holding. Its just invisible to us. But for someone seeking it its visible and clear. I myself was born to an Orthodox family, but didnt got time to appreciate and praise God for his works.
Oy vey, nationalism and fascism
It would be interesting to see you discuss these topics with someone like Pastor Steve Anderson of Faithful World Baptist Church in a strip mall in Tempe, Arizona. 😉
Ever since being introduced to the Eastern orthodoxy from you, I suspected that the Christian madness we see in United States (which I’m including the Hebrew Israelites as a part of) is due to being cut off from the Eastern orthodoxy. Now I’m realizing that is the case.
Steve Anderson's got nothing on Patrick Hines. Vitriol increases as these Sola subjective fools bleed believers into the ancient Apostolic Church. ua-cam.com/video/m0v1MD8BEBU/v-deo.html
Anderson is a straight up idiot.
@@willtheperson7224 ua-cam.com/video/8dUvO0FmsDM/v-deo.html
Brothers and sisters we need to pray for the people of the world ☦️☦️☦️
God bless Orthodoxy! Thank you Jay!
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Dear brother Jay,
thank you so much for all your labour.
I was born into a Polish Catholic, (very) nominal family. Came to Christ in 2015 within an explicitly Protestant context. I was baptized as an infant (Catholic) and baptized again in 2016 in a Baptist church, as an adult.
It's not directly relevant, but I married my Russian wife and we moved to Saint Petersburg in 2020 and attend a Baptist/ evangelical church here. I increasingly feel drawn to Orthodoxy and could eventually see myself converting to the Orthodox faith and church. My wife is a bit skeptical because of icons, the veneration of dead relics, etc.-things that I myself still contemplate on.
I wanted to ask you about which resources to read at my stage?
Also, how many times has the cosmology been discussed in the earliest church councils? How strict is the Orthodox church on all that happened around the 16th century with heliocentric theses of Copernicus within the context of Western, Latin aka Roman catholic civilization? Does it withhold judgment on all that?
Thanks a lot and may God bless you and your whole family!!!
Can you explain more on how the EE Distinction refutes Calvinism? You have mentioned this before but you need to go slower for my small brain. connect the dots a little more for. This is the only real argument I have ever heard that strikes me as viable.
The EE distinction permits a distinction of attributes/actions in God, thus allowing a difference between Gods energy/action of providence and foreknowledge for example. Since calvinism is a continuation of the Agustinian tradition, the assumption of Absolute Divine simplicity is implicitly present in the system. If we assume ADS, which is the belief that all of Gods attributes are one and the same in Gods essence, then the attribute of providence is one in Gods essence. Thus God becomes eternally provident leading to an emanationist view of creation and making it as eternal as God himself. Instead of "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth," you have "from all eternity God emanated the heavens". Consistent calvinism falls into the origenist problematic. In short the EE distinction gives God free will. In Calvinism, salvation is essentially a predestined return to the one, similar to plotinus.
Benjamin Angrignon Is there a video I can watch that breaks that down?
As a Protestant I can certainly agree with much of what Jay is saying, including the need for a Church to authenticate/recognize apostolic canon and tradition. But I'd argue that where a Protestant or Orthodox might diverge we certainly should look to Councils and Patristics but more importantly to the text itself. When the Reformation occurred the primacy of Scripture was tantamount. What's fascinating is how this Protestant reading of Scripture aligns with the Orthodox faith, but if we diverge is it a disagreement over tradition or the text?
@@nicodemuseam I think everyone agrees Scripture is the highest tradition--what else is above it? There is no theology, ritual or revelation which is greater than Scripture, whether one is Orthodox or Protestant. And by no means do Protestant remove Scripture from its context--what is the context? The original author and audience is how everyone should interpret Scripture. Scripture is its own canonical theology which everyone has to adhere to. What tradition interprets Scripture? The Church Fathers certainly do not have a mystical tradition which trumps Scripture--they all the time were appealing to Scripture. So I think your argument is quite flawed in many points.
@@konroh2 they also, on equal grounds appealed to the liturgy and councils.
because the word of God is not limited to scripture alone, but the wider paradosis/teaching-traditioning of god's people, the church.
The scriptures, like the councils and liturgy, are not above the church, judging it, but within it
@@TheMhouk2 I think you are looking at history backwards. The appeal overwhelmingly by the Church Fathers and apostles is to Scripture. There is never an appeal to liturgy, and appeal to councils is only after the fact, and the entire authority of the Church council is based on what Scripture says. Look at the way James appeals to Scripture in Acts 15. The Scriptures absolutely are above the Church, and that's as it should be. The prophets judged the people based on God's word speaking through them, the apostles likewise judged the Church based on God's word, God's truth. What is this wider church teaching which is bigger than Scripture? There is none.
You simply can’t refer to “the text” as a Protestant because if you don’t believe in tradition then you can’t be certain about the canon you subscribe to, so sola scriptura ironically doesn’t work for the very people who believe it.
@@MikeMarlowe-ym3zy It wasn't tradition that gave us the text. The canon didn't come about by tradition. What history are you referring to?
There are 100 Reasons not to be Reformed (deformed) Protestant. But I do have family and friends who are and I do love and respect Them...
Is there actually a list somewhere? That would be really helpful
@@budpalersonof course and yes I made a list... If you want I can email you some information? You can send me an email ✉️ 📨
Thank you for this. Blessings in Christ.
I find it odd that relying on the word is some kind heresy is the the first reason one would reject Protestantism, then using the word to prove the rest of your points.
False prophets abound, as was foretold. Those who are speaking the REAL truth of The Most High will have few subscribers.
The road is narrow.
He's not saying the Bible isn't super super important, just that it's not the ONLY thing. The fathers regularly use scripture in their arguments. It's a HUGE chunk of what has been handed down, just not the only thing.
@@johnathanrhoades7751 I don't think you can even properly separate the two matters.
The Bible is a book that was written and compiled by a specific community of faith. It *_belongs_* to that community. It was entrusted to them. Any book has a "right" way to read it given what the author wanted to convey, and in this case, it's that community of faith-- and all the accepted thought within it-- that determines the "right" way to read it.
A Protestant reading the Scriptures outside that understanding is an improper divorce between word and context that will of course yield a different meaning. Something that wasn't intended. Something that's "inaccurate" or even "wrong".
Truth of the matter is, every Christian communion has such a reading context. The next question is "which context is the right context"?
What? The word it’s self says to carry on traditions whether spoken or written. So it’s self refuting, but also the fact the first church didn’t have the NT until later on. What are you on about? Did you even listen to him?
I'm having trouble understanding how the fact that the fathers disagreed about the canon is evidence in favor of Orthodoxy. It seems to be the opposite.
I don't see how the following propositions can all be true:
-Church tradition is inerrant
-Church tradition doesn't change
- the canon is part of Church tradition
-the Orthodox fathers disagreed about the canon for centuries
The codification of the Bible books took place in the Quinisext (=the Fifth-Sixth) Ecumenical Council which intended to complete both the Fifth and the Sixth Ecumenical Councils that had omitted to draw up disciplinary canons! Actually, that codification was a SYNTHESIS of earlier local councils and of several early Church fathers! The canons of the local councils and the canons of the Church Fathers were respectfully synthesised, even though none of them was totally perfect! Such a synthesis took place because in the Orthodox Church, we entirely trust in the living experience of the Whole Church!
Infallibility is a gift that was bestowed on the oneness of the whole Church, because Church is the wholeness of a mystical body whose Head is the only infallible Son of man Who is the incarnated Son of God! For this very reason Orthodoxy is expressed and declared in Ecumenical Councils!
On the other hand, the presumption that the Scripture could be infallibly interpreted out of the Oneness of the Whole Church is a spiritual quicksand! Thousands of different interpretations of the Bible cause a spiritual confusion and a constant state of uncertainty.
Anyway you are always welcomed to experience the fullness of Christ's mystery in the Orthodox Church!
I have lived and experienced both the empty protestant "rock show" churches in the american south, as well as dead, gaudy mausoleum-like orthodox churches of eastern europe. Both are imperfect representations of an eternal reality. I have serious theological issues with Calvinism and I have serious practical issues with the "cultural" orthodoxy as I have seen it practiced in the balkans/eastern europe. I do not feel a strong urge or need to choose a camp or to be "reconciled" to one "side" or the other but I am grateful to videos like this that challenge and inspire further study.
its good they feel like a mausoleum, it's where our sins and passions go to perish :)
A church is a hospital for spiritual healing. The devil will paint a different picture, that picture you are holding onto in your mind. Protestants are easy pickings for the evil one.
The reason you feel that way is because these buildings are NOT the temple of The Most High. We are His tabernacle.
THE most dangerous place for any true follower of Yeshua today is in a church. Any church. Satan is very pleased with his accomplishments.
True followers of Yeshua do not fit in any church. Hold on to your crown as the first seal was opened in March 2020! (I have videos up regarding this, Noahide laws, etc. of course.)
@2bitgirl
Go to a orthodox monastery and listen the beauty of the songs. I prefer slavonic songs....
You know what's interesting for me I study philosophy at Rutgers I became a full theist After a realize how much faith I need to exist in societee and live comfortably. I need to have faith in so many things that function. Low and from my previous religious studies I found Christianity just on the intellectual level beautiful. From there was a lot of seeking of what was the historical church and the closest I got to with orthodoxy but there was a hard stumbling block until I met a chaplain who was a Greek orthodox priest and he was my 1st spiritual father and still really is. Are currently a can and OCA church couple towns over and I never felt more at home.
James White just responded to this. Debate or response video soon?
Miqueas Bello I believe he drops Jay’s name at around the 43:00 mark of his most recent video. Dude probably won’t debate Jay.
O K 2/3 of that show was dedicated to responding to Jay. Idk if he’ll debate but I would love to see that bc I’m sure Jay would bring the heat.
Royal S He is a master debater, that I cannot deny. He was a hero of sorts to me during my Protestant days.
@@miqueasbello5382 how do you debate truth. Protestantism has nothing to offer.
Oh so you are Orthodox! Great! I watch a video of you interviewing some Lutheran and wondering why you made so much sense and what was your Protestant denomination. Good job of explaining the Orthodox faith!
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/8dUvO0FmsDM/v-deo.html
This is not meant to be insult but just an attempt to express my opinion on the matter, so please be gracious if you choose to respond:
One of the big problems I see with the Eastern Orthodox church and the Roman Catholic church is that they both make claims to exclusivity. They both claim that they alone are the one true church and both claim to have historical support for their exclusivity. They both claim that they alone possess access to the saving grace of Christ. They both claim that if you truly believe in Christ you will be led to their church. So how does one know which is telling the truth and which is not? Must one become a church historian in order to be saved/know they are saved? (If any EO believers comes across this comment, please leave an answer to the above questions)
One of the main takeaways from looking into EOC and RCC claims about exclusivity is this: a genuine repentance and faith in Christ is of no value to you IF you don’t become a part of our church and submit to our dogmas. (Or they’ll claim that your faith isn’t genuine if it doesn’t lead you to join and submit to their church)
No matter how much you think Protestant beliefs are in error, one must acknowledge that the gospel message that most Protestant churches preach is simple and applicable to all believers. It puts the emphasis on Christ’s saving grace and not the saving power of a particular institution. Protestantism (if that’s what you’d like to call it) puts the need of a personal trust in Christ as the standard of salvation above all else regardless of church affiliation whereas Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism elevate decision of church affiliation to the same level of importance as a personal trust in Christ in regards to salvation. Is this incorrect?
Hey I'm no Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic, but if you just look at the teachings of both, the history of how they have been taugh, roman catholic has been in error for quite sometime. All these type of questions get answer the more you search. Instead of just objecting to the statements "we have the true church", from both churches entirely, maybe read or watch videos as Jay, and this other guy Orthodox Kyle, have made videos on how roman catholic has been in error. You do not have to be a historian but just be humble enough to realise there was a single church before the massive schism in 1054 AD so just start from there. Trust me as much as i want to except my non-denominational church becuase it surrounded me as a young kid, and still, I do realise that I ought to at least hear what the churches have taught and whether my pressuppositions are correct or false. Also read a bit on how the prostestant reformation began as it is just interesting.
Also about your last paragraph, this is not meant to insult i just think when we look at our faith, we have to look at it humbly and with good consience what we are teaching and the whether the doctrine is true, not just how applicable it is or easy it is. Heresy is easy and applicable to most in it's various forms. I would argue the more you take time to actually hear out what the Orthodox Church teaches from Jay and others like Kyle the easier it becomes and more applicable Orthodox teachings become. It's one thing to say something is wrong when you have good reasoning to why it is wrong, but it is a whole other thing to call it to being wrong just because many don't understand or that they have a surface level understanding of it's history. again not meant to insult but rather just motivate you to try give a look into the history of the Church as I am doing, but yeah this stuff is not easy to understand especially with our protestant presuppositions. Good luck God bless
@@EverydayKerbonaut.
Edit: I read this comment (below) again and I realized I might’ve been a bit uncharitable especially considering you said you’re not EO or RCC.
--
I thank you for the time you put into your responses, but, to be honest, they’re not that helpful. You basically did exactly what I was describing. You said the Catholics were the ones who caused the split in 1054 but the Roman Catholic Church would deny that and claim that it was actually the Eastern church that was in error and caused the split. So basically, not to be rude, you’re implying that I do need (to some extent) to become a church historian in order to know which church is making the right claim and therefore which is the true church.
Also, your second comment addresses my last paragraph but didn’t really answer the final question which was “Protestantism (if that’s what you’d like to call it) puts the need of a personal trust in Christ as the standard of salvation above all else regardless of church affiliation whereas Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism elevate decision of church affiliation to the same level of importance as a personal trust in Christ in regards to salvation. Is this incorrect?”
So, again, thank you for taking the time to reply but I still feel as though my questions have gone unanswered. So I’ll shorten them (and God bless you if you choose to reply): is there only one organization that can claim that it is the true church? is church affiliation as important as repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus?
(PS I agree heresy can be easy but it can also be hard. Plenty of cults and false religions impose much stricter standards on their followers that Christianity and at times contain very complex theology. So heresy can be easy or hard, but we know that Christ’s burden for us is light and easy per Matt. 11:30)
I'm Orthodox and might be able to address some of the points you've presented here, though I'm far from an authority. 1.) A small nitpick on the idea of exclusivity you've presented here, at least from the perspective of the Roman Church, who actually do recognize the Orthodox as a valid Church with a valid priesthood, baptism and sacraments; they just say that we are in an "imperfect" or separated union with Rome and in a less "perfect" form of Christianity. Some Orthodox recognize RC sacraments, priesthood, etc. but most don't. 2.) Most Orthodox and RC also believe that non-Orthodox/Catholics can be "saved" (Orthodox theology rejects the idea of salvation being a one-time attestation of faith). We make no proclamation or claim as to who will be saved one way or the other, to do so is a grave sin and would amount to playing God. However, I will say that one of our most important 19th century saints seemed to answer in the affirmative:
"You ask, will the hetrodox be saved. . . Why do you worry about them? They have a savior who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins." -St. Theophan the Recluse
Hope that helps a little bit, but these are questions that should really be directed towards a priest.
@@budpalersonif you just have to put your faith in Jesus then you can be a oneness pentecostal or Mormon and still go to heaven
@Jay Dyer I agree with each of your points. I realize that I like Orthodoxy a lot, although I don’t subscribe to it. But I have some serious questions for you:
Prophets and Apostles seem to be an important element in God’s church throughout the ages. Amos talked about God always revealing His will to His prophets before He does something. Paul, in Ephesians, talking about the church being built upon the foundation of prophets and apostles, with Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone. Later in the same epistle he repeats the importance of prophets and apostles. So this leads to my first question, does your church have prophets and apostles? And I’m talking actual individuals called as prophets and apostles.
This then takes me to my second question, it is clearly evident that these prophets and apostles, even after the ascension of Christ, continued seeking and receiving revelation from Christ. At times they had visions. Sometimes angels visited them, and sometimes Christ visited them. This principle of revelation is consistent from beginning to end. Does your church believe in continuous revelation through the authority given to prophets and apostles?
I enjoy your channel very much btw. Thanks for all of your content.
Read up on the orthodox saints. Elder Paisios had such gift in recent times.
Εἰς μίαν, Ἁγίαν, καθολικὴν καὶ ἀποστολικὴν Ἐκκλησίαν.
Could you do a video on Anglicanism? It falls into the category of Protestantism but doesn’t share many of the issues you mention. Liturgy, for example, is a huge deal for Anglicans, as well as Apostolic Succession.
@@bobjenkins3rd true, though Methodists don’t have apostolic succession, which ties Anglicans most closely to Catholics and Orthodox.
How do you find a good orthodox church/convert?
You can't ❤
Great explanation. Thanks!
You often quote or reference interesting books. Could you list these books in the video notes plz?
Also I find "anti-intellectual" to be an interesting rebuke of protestantism given that mass literacy was an integral function of its sola scriptura doctrine. Is that accusation reserved for present day protestantism only?
Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Go away pest
Is there no other way to verify canon of scripture other than church tradition ?
The Ecumenical Councils??
Is this premiering?
IF ur fruits stay same after going from protestian to orthodox, nothing really changed, God wants restore us to he's image right? So what has changed after u switch from protestian to Orthodox?
Hello. You did not mention the priesthood which the protestants do not have.
Thanks Jay, this is very helpful !
Hey Jay, I can't remember how I came across your channel but it's been a tremendous blessing in better understanding my protestant position and what exactly Orthodoxy is. I started doing more research into Eastern Orthodoxy and want to better grasp as I have so many questions. With respect to better understanding The Church Father's, can you recommend a starting point, or a volume/set to begin reading The Church Father's? I'm hungry for more and want to understand. Thank you! 🙏
Sola Scriptura is a tradition of man.
So is Orthodox, Roman Catholics, GC, etc.
@@vigilantezack no
@@TheMhouk2 yep
Yes true. It is
@@vigilantezackuh nope it’s not. Try again. There was only one truth at the beginning. Not multiple truths. Protestantism is a new invention literally invented by a man named Luther. 😂 even kids know that.
This is an amazing video which you produced. All this thorough theological analysis, I admit, is generally unknown to us Greek Orthodox Christians. We usually stand with reverence to famous early Church fathers (like John Chrysostom ("the one with a mouth of gold"), Basil of Ceasareia etc), who wrote thousands of pages in Greek, but almost none of us has any book of them in their house, or ever read one. The main reason is that they wrote in an ancient form of the Greek that we speek today (aka Ancient Greek), and there have not been many efforts to produce translations for the modern Greek Orthodox Christian, due to a stubborn notion of Greek Church scholars up until some decades ago, which was like "If you want to read Plato or Aristotle or Basil of Ceasareia or even the Bible, you had better learn ancient Greek than have a translation in modern Greek that you speak and understand". On the other hand, English- or French- or German- speaking peoples couldn't care less about learning ancient Greek, and that's the reason there are early translations in English French German etc since the 16th and 17th cent. On the other hand, one can easily find translations of their books in English, produced by English speaking Protestant scholars.
We also stand with reverence to our church tradition, which is mainly oral, but we do not do much homework or study on these subjects. I always thought that Protestants, in general, did their homework and study much better than us.
I have learnt much from this video and thank you very much!
What I never understood is why, after the Reformists left the Roman Catholic Church, they never approached or return, might say, to the Orthodox Church, which would seem only natural.
The disciples of Luther entered into dialogue with Patriarch Jeremias (I think the third) of Constantinople.
About what you call stubborn Greek scholars, well up until around the 17th century, Greek is said to be significantly similar from Ancient Greek to the 17th century. So those Protestant and Roman Catholic missionaries who went to Occupated Geeece and who sought to translate old ecclesiastical texts into modern Greek - on the basis that occupied Greeks are uneducated and illiterate and couldn’t understand - was actually their strategy to indoctrinate us with their doctrines through their translations.
Also after the 17 century, it seems the Greek language which had been quite consistent from Ancient Greece to then, had begun to become quite modern and different. But at this time, the Church began to produce scholar-theologians like saints Nikodimos of Mt Athos, Athanasius Parios, and Makarios Notaras (of Corinth), as well as Oikonomos Oikonomides. Again, the idea that occupied Greeks were uneducated and left in darkness by the ecclesiastical hierarchy is western propaganda
@@dikaioskyrios thanx for the enlightening info.
I must insist on the language barrier. One notices that Jay at the end of the video holds some books (thanx Jay!) written in English. This is no coincidence, since he speaks English. That means, no matter what his knowledge of ancient Greek is, he prefers using books in English.
All I am saying is that Jay, and all English speaking people may study, learn, know and understand much, much more than modern Greeks, because the material they use is translated in plain English, at least 150 years now, that they can understand, whereas modern Greeks have not the same convenience, since all those wonderful texts from the Greek early Church fathers have not been translated in the language that modern Greeks can understand, or their translations, if they really exist, it is not that easy to trace.
Is like providing Jay with Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, written also in English, but it is Middle English, and ask of him to understand it. I am quite sure he will meet some trouble in the process, that's all I am saying, and it's possible he will prefer a translation in English that he will understand.
PS Early Church fathers, before any Schism, that wrote solely in Latin, are entirely unknown in Greece. An example is St. Augustine, a Saint of both Orthodox and Catholic Churches. The West knows and studied his works since centuries ago in translations, whereas modern Greeks don't have a clue about his books and we only know that's he's just a Saint.
Paronymius Paronymius I agree. Do you live in Greece?
Please pray for me for one step away to be Orthodox. Anyone have a suggestion for me to explain my recent Pastor (Charismatic) in a manner way that I will leave his church without disrespecting him. I’ve been learning about Orthodoxy for last 6 months and I’m considering to convert. Thank you
I’m an ex Pentecostal pastor and bishop. Let me know what questions you have brother
@@zealousideal I already baptized before Pascha, glory to God, i think this is the best decision i’ve ever made. Orthodoxy to the death, there is no looking back.
Hey Jay! I appreciate what you share, it's thought provoking and insightful.
I do have some questions though. From what i have been told, non-resistance was a part of the early apostolic doctrine. Is this true and if so, haven't the Orthodox church left that point? Also, what is the history of icons? I can't find too much written about it by church fathers before Nicene council. Was it something passed on from the first apostles, or was it something that came more with making Christianity part of the Roman empire?
All the best!
Non-resistance? Never heard of it. In what context or relating to what? Grace? St Luke painted the first icon of the Theotokos, the Mother of God. Considering the very first Christians were Jewish and strict monotheists, one would expect a massive resistance to them. The fact that there is no early resistance to icons , as you mention not finding anything about them discussed by the Fathers, is telling - under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, icons became a major testimony to the Incarnation. The Fathers would only have discussed icons if they were not received from the their predecessors and consequently regarded as heretical. The first real objections appear in the record only after Muslims were converting and conquering Christian lands and they initiated iconoclasms. The Jews jumped on the same bandwagon - interestingly both faiths deny the Incarnation. Luckily the Seventh Council, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, for once and for all settled the issue for the Church. To be an iconoclast implies a denial of the Incarnation, the foundational Truth of Orthodoxy.
@Elias Trolin It should also be noted that iconography was prescribed by God himself for the Tabernacle. Examples include the hammered golden cherubim for the Mercy Seat (Exod 25:18), the cherubim embroidered into the curtains (Exod 26:1, 31), the pomegranates alternating with the golden bells along the hem of the high priest's vestments (Exod 28:31-35), etc. Icons were thus also present in Solomon's Temple, which subsumed all that was present in the Tabernacle and added to it carved cherubim, palm trees, flowering plants, and lions on the walls and doors (1 Kgs 6:29, 32, 35; 7:36). The iconography of both purposely invokes the paradise Garden of Eden, in which man dwelt with God freely and in full communion. It, and the layout of the structure itself, recreated in a mystical, incarnational way heaven on earth-that is, they were truly God's dwelling place on earth with man. It's why Moses was instructed to construct the Tabernacle precisely according to the pattern he was shown on Mount Sinai/Horeb (Exod 25:8-9, 40).
We also have archaeological confirmation that iconography (frescoes and mosaics of biblical figures and scenes) were present in both ancient synagogues (Judaism was _not_ iconoclastic until its reform into Rabbinic Judaism _after_ the rise of Christianity) and early Christian churches. We even have examples for both in the same place from the same time period: Dura-Europos, from c. AD 230-250, thus predating the First Council of Nicaea by a full century. You can do a web image search for both "Dura-Europos church" and "Dura-Europos synagogue" to see them for yourself.
All the evidence that we have available to us, when reasonably assessed, shows us that neither the ancient Israelites nor the Second Temple Jews were iconoclastic. The Church itself arose out of Second Temple Judaism and adopted quite naturally for its places of worship the structure, iconography, and worship style (i.e., liturgy) of the synagogue at that time, with which both the Jews _as well as_ the God-fearing Gentiles had been familiar for centuries.
I was born Armenian orthodox, just like (almost) every Armenian.
Last year i really gave my life to Christ, began reading the bible and other books. I am still a "protestant" however i dont necesserly want to label myself.
Jay do you have any book recommendations about the real orthodox faith or orthodoxy vs roman catholicism vs protestants etc. I am really open en want the Spirit to guide me.
God bless you bro
A good book would be The Mystery of Faith by Met. Hilarion Alfeyev. Its pretty much an introduction and full rundown of the faith. I found it helpful when I converted and some wonderful UA-cam channels are Patristic Nectar and Trisagion Films
Honestly, I would just recommend reading the Church Fathers. It isn't so much a comparison of the traditions (in most cases), but they clearly show the mindset of the Church throughout the ages; which points directly to the one and only Church that has preserved it to this day. Holy Orthodoxy.
You can also study the councils and, in particular, read the canons. It's impossible to read the canons with an open mind and not see a clear refutation of Protestantism and Papism. God bless and may the Lord bless your journey, brother.
Extremely good!
If you deny penal substitution, how do you make sense of the messianic prophecy of Isaiah 53? "Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush Him and cause Him to suffer. And when His soul is made a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand" (Isaiah 53:10). Also, we can simply say that the 2nd eternal person of the Trinity, the son, volunteered before the foundations of the earth to be damned in the place of sinners, thereby it is not the case that penal substitution breaks up the Trinity since the will of the Father and the Will of the son are operating in harmony.
Is it not the case that the sacrificial system in the Old System is in fact a form of penal substitution, and if so, is it not also the case that the New Testament repeatedly affirms that Christ is a guilt offering for sinners? How is it, exactly, that we are purchased by the blood of Jesus without an instantaneous declaration of us being not guilty? How does Eastern Orthodoxy view penal substitution?
I sure would like this addressed by Jay Dyer.
listen to father stephen de young on the atonement, penal substitution is a narrow thesis, which relies on a misunderstanding of the day of atonement in the old testament.
it's not paying off an angry God.
it's about the death that separates man and God, brought in by man and the devil, being overcome by the very glory/life of God himself on the Cross. The idea of justification as an imputed taxonomic status was literally unknown until luther innovated it
In 692 the Quinisext (=the Fifth-Sixth) Ecumenical Council was held at Constantinople! That Church Council intended to complete both the Fifth and the Sixth Ecumenical Councils that had omitted to draw up disciplinary canons! Among the canons of the Quinisext Council there was a codification of the Bible books! Actually, that codification was a synthesis of earlier local councils and of several early Church fathers! In 787 the Seventh Ecumenical Council upheld the decision of the Quinisext Council! That was the first ecumenical synthesis of the Bible books!
Dimitris Peiraias I’m aware dude - relax.
Keep fighting the good fight, Jay! Thank you for keeping the faith!
Fantastic video
Actually, strictly speaking, Lutherans wouldn’t affirm baptismal regeneration so much as baptismal non-imputation of sin. But for the Protestant non-imputation just gets you back to
Zero. Not guilty. To get the righteousness you need to see God, you need the active righteousness of Christ imputed to you, and I don’t think ANY Protestant accepts that occurs by baptism, or else every baptized Protestant would persevere and go to heaven. You need a hypothetical severability in the usage of the sacraments, in terms of their effect, to justify the fact not everyone is saved, esp. for Lutherans.
Philaret Of New York Lutherans teach baptismal regeneration, it’s in Luther’s catechism. I’m well aware of the various scholastic Protestant views.
catechism.cph.org/en/sacrament-of-holy-baptism.html
Jay Dyer cool, I probably
Just read a fluke.
Interesting stuff
What happend to last night's boiler room?
Does anyone have any advice for someone who was baptised Orthodox as a child but never explored their faith through the church beyond that and is now finding deep solace within Roman Catholicism? The conversion process is confusing and I'm not sure if I'd be doing a disservice to my ancestors but the Orthodox faith has always seemed so alienating to someone living within a second generation of diaspora Greeks.
sss Rome isn’t it. Stick around here and watch Jay’s content. See his Top 10 on Roman Catholicism.
Also, check out Norwegian Nous, he’s a Deacon and he might be able to help.
I'm in the same boat but found an antiochian English speaking church and its the best decsion I made.
Слава Богу за всё! Аминь!
Excellent video! Thank you… wondering if you can do a video on “10 reasons I’m not Hebrew Roots/ Messianic Judaism”
Uh I Don’t think that was ever an option for him nor crossed his mind. 😂😂😂
That’s like saying can you do a video saying “10 reasons why you’re not not an alien 👽 “. 😂
Me, a Church of Christ boy, watching Jay:
👁️👄👁️
Cults live on the unpaid bills of the church. Walter Martin said.
I would say protestant rises on the unpaid bills of the Orthodox. And the Orthodox Church is bankrupt. How come I have never come across an Orthodox Church in Haiti, 36 years since I was born and grew up in this country. That's a shame, if the points you are making are true.
I am not trying to make a case for protestantism nor defend them, but we have tested Christianity here and it works. I have seen many life that have been changed for the glory of God. Demons have been cast out in the name of Jesus. Your arguments are convincing theoricaly but not practically in my context at least. God bless...
Ugh, I’m confused now, this is stressing me out lol. I fall under the category of prot, but now I’m starting to doubt.
Push through it, brothers. The Lords Church never fell and the faith of the apostles has been preserved to this day! Any uncomfort you feel now, will pale in comparison to the experience of the grace of His Church and right worship.
May the Lord bless you both on your journey.
@@J..P.. Can one be saved without going to Orthodox church? Can Jesus' work upon the cross alone save a man's soul?
Read The Scriptures. Gods gospel comes in power. Justification by faith is absent in their church. Form a relationship with Jesus not a church. If youre a believer He lives in you. Ask God to teach you to hear His voice. These guys are constantly stroking their dicks at how awesome and superior their church but theyre practically useless in worldwide evangelism from what Ive seen. Heres Jesus healing and delivering folks of demons. Ive seen this ministry in person and have witnessed miracles and healings and exorcisms. I highly recommend it.
ua-cam.com/video/f3yM0aJBwfI/v-deo.html
Seek Jesus not religion. Folks that arent satisfied in Christ seem to want an experience like Orthodoxy. I experienced Jesus in a powerful way under Derek Prince and David Wilkersons teachings. A W Tozer is another great one. These men knew The Lord very intimately. There is a great apostasy and many of our churches are way far off the mark of the first century church. But theres still very annointed churches. ua-cam.com/video/8dUvO0FmsDM/v-deo.html
@@78LedHeadYes but theyd just criticize sola scriptura to avoid the clear teachings of scripture
Sola fide seems to be a good explanation of the Penitent Thief. How does the Eastern Church explain it?
@Nestorian Calvin That is an unusual title for the same person, yes.
Is God not allowed to have mercy on anyone He wants to? Why do you use someone who died before the resurrection.
@@MrDavicovic The point of the story of the Penitent Thief is that he did no works. You are exactly making my point. If God can forgive anyone he pleases, and he can, then there is no requirement for works.
@@JohnVandivier Ok, then everything Christ said about keeping the commandments and the necessity of baptism was nonsense according to you.
@@MrDavicovic no - repentance is the spiritual baptism, and the water baptism is a nice-to-have;
Water baptism is a great idea and a way to show people you're a Christian and hopefully influence them to come to Jesus, but it's not needed for salvation
30:39 Loooool
Is there apostolic succession that we can accurately track from Christ to today?