Can Porsche's 911 Turbo S outrun a Formula 4 car?
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2014
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The 552bhp Porsche 911 Turbo S is one of the fastest cars around a tight handling course. Today, though, it's up against some stiff competition in the form of a Formula 4 car. Can the Porsche hold off the racer? Steve Sutcliffe finds out.
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For years we have heard countless environmentalists complaining about seeing 5 seater cars with only one person in them on the daily commute . If we all drove formula 4 cars they would be happy, yes? This is proof for nothing other then environmental reasons we need to make formula 4 cars road legal.
Jon Jennings can't argue with that
Jon Jennings then they would argue to use electric vehicles formula cars lol
Everyone would have fun, and everyone would save fuel. Plus F4 cars are super safe.
i'm an environmentalist and i fully agree with this assertion. i just need a little room in the back for my junk
best comment
Why are people complaining about comparing these 2?? There are a million videos already comparing a 911 against R8's, Ferraris, GTR's etc, etc, etc... This is something different! Finally!
Jack Thorpe Well for you we have a new video, just because you want something different, are you ready? The Porsche 918 Spyder VS. The Mall Walker. Think about the weight difference, this one could be close!
@Radeon__ BTW Amazing isn't it? What do people like that do with the REST of their lives?
"It's not how fast you can go. But how fast you can KEEP going."
i think lap time wudv been more shorter had the porsche drive wudv cut sown the wide turns like the formula1 driver did
2016
Straight facts
@@mileswoods2527 the formula car can maintain and sutain that pace for the whole grandprix while the 911 turbo will start to heat sock after 5 or so laps
For me Porsche obvious won. You can came by Porsche on track, have fun and go back to home. On evening you can go for date with girl. In f4 car you can't. You don't have slicks on 911. Weight difference is X3, comfort difference is x30. You can try longer distance on this cars (tires, fuel) and Porsche could won. It's all about regulations and FUN.
"Simplify, then add lightness". It's a shame modern sportscars are so far removed from that philosophy. This Turbo S weights 1605kg (3538lbs). Ridiculous...
Safety is important too, Porsche has to cater for both good drivers and people who think they're good drivers 😂
911 has comfort, single-seaters has none, its a boneshaking ride from hell! comfort = adding weight, but modern sportscars has gone to far from lightness and simplisity
@@torevenheim9607 boneshaking ride from hell is what sports cars should be about.
A110
Bro it's a road car, luxury car. Not for me or you (i think) because of budget. You can compare Porsche 911 rebuild for racing and than compare this cars even with f3 or F2. (Equal cost of build + add cost per use for season). 911 here even don't have slicks...
Wow, the F4 car seems like a hell of a lot of fun for the money!
2017
2018
2021
2022
If you only drive on race track, the F4 is a superior choice.
Why is everyone commenting years?
5:38 lol didn't even attempt to make the corner
+sniktun1 the formula car cut every corner that you could cut without going on the grass so doesnt realy matter xD
+sniktun1 2 wheels on the track. Perfectly legit
+sniktun1 I think they're counting the red/white parts as track.
+Ettick is not a fan of motorsport definitely... that's called kerb, dude...
Randy Lasmana
Thanks for telling me, you clearly have superior knowledge on the subject.
next comparison: tricycle vs. nitro fuel dragster in a quarter mile race
Actually, I would like to see maybe a Bugatti SS v. a Funnycar. That would be kind of interesting.
You're an idiot, dude. not you inklebonker.
Ciber why exactly? They compared an expensive, luxurious 4-seater sportscar to a race car .... ON THE TRACK!
Ganooster Moppy my grandma has a dragster and has just accepted the challenge. I'll be providing the dragstrip
Inklebonker Wone A funny car would make the Bugatti look like a slug
Much like a recently engaged woman, weight is the enemy.
I don't know why people are mad that the Formula 4 car is better. Did you really expect any road car to be as good to drive as a single seater race car?
Yes... a F4 car can be beaten by a hypercar on semi-slicks (like the 918 or the 720s), maybe also by the GT2 RS. Meaning on an average track with some longer straights
@@iseeq72 but not an F3 car. Nothing you can drive on the street will touch it.
@@iseeq72 There is no way, we are faster than the 500hps gt3 arround some tracks (who have slicks, light weight and some aero). It's the fact the cars run lower to the ground and are 3times lighter that makes them that fast
ignore the usual sad moaners. This was informative and fun. Thank you
I believe this is actually a very good comparison. It's just informative on the difference between a race car and a street car. The significant difference is in the high speed corners where the aero come into affect. The tyres on the F4 car are not necessarily grippier than the Turbo's tyres. I forgot if the the F4 car uses bias-ply or radial tyres. Even if you put slicks on the Porsche, it would not come close to the F4 car. The better handling gives more rolling speed out of the corners so down the straight the cars equal out. If anything the F4 car is faster down straights because the aero reduces drag. With proper setup and gear ratios, I believe the F4 car can go 1 or 2 second faster at least. You would also have to see how he is on the brake traces in the F4 car. In a formula car, under braking you have to slowly trail off due to loss of down force as you slow down so he might be losing significant time in braking too. Very good driver though!
I agree!
Put some slicks on the Turbo and try again.
Put a turbo on the F4, see what happens.
Take the F4 to the shop to get some groceries....oh wait...
Ref. 911 Turbo
With 100,000 big ones, I can have a couple of nice cars to get some groceries with.
Both cars are great, I sure hoped the Formula 4 car would beat it since that's the one thing it was made to do.
OK, about 1,5 second less in this track. Slicks are not miracles
Next: Toilet car with Bugattis 16.4 engine vs Train
+Zellox | CSGO Clips Transrapid? ;)
So at the full Le Mans circuit the porsche wins by a mile. At the full Nurburgring Nordschilfe, the formula 4 wins by a mile.
Le Mans is a boring circuit with miles and miles of straight road, no wonder.
the Ring is anyway the real benchmark for any car's capabilities.
I wouldn't call Le Mans boring. In the 80s before they added the two chicanes cars did 260 down the mulsanne straight. Even if it is long that's not exactly boring.
TheOne42
You have obviously never watched a Le Man's 24Hr race then.
hvf26 No because its that boring ;)
Yeah no it's difficult to watch a race that's nonstop for 24 hours.
McLaren P1 would be interesting in this comparison.
oh yeah! I don't see it going 6 seconds faster than the Porsche, but I don't see a 185hp 1-seater beating it either, so...
918 spyder would be as well.
Yeah all 3 hybrid supercars. That way we can gauge what they're actually capable of in comparison.
Ciber At Laguna Seca, with Randy Pobst at the wheel, the 918 holds the production road car record (1:29.89). Fastest lap in Prototype 1 (sports-racers with 1000cc motorcycle engines and about the same power and weight as that Formula 4) at last November's SCCA run-offs was 1:22.397, in a Stohr WF1. It's not close , even when the road car is a hybrid hypercar...
So why isn't the Porsche on slicks to be fair?
+Jackie Scholl Fairer excuse him
It's a comparison of road vs race car. It's not about proving who's best just an interesting comparison to watch,
+Jackie Scholl I bet the Porsche would win on a fast circuit like Monza or Spa Francorchamps. It is the same as with the discussion about the Ferrari LaFerrari vs. Porsche 918 vs. McLaren P1: there is not one fastest car, there is only a fastest car on a certain track.
why isnt it a formula 4 car to be fair.....
Monza maaaaybe. Just maybe the porsche would be faster
Spa there is no chance. Spa is fast but it's all high speed turns, the F4 would eat it alive.
Came back to watch this again, enjoy this comparison, and what it tells me about both cars.
Okay, so we've proven that a race car is faster than a road car...
Never would have suspected that...
Ferrariman601 Its nowhere near the fastest race car vs one of the fastest road cars...thats the bit that makes it interesting, surely you get that?
If you have money, and want car for track, you must go with formula. Porsche is worst.
Any production car is a virtual bus when compared to a formula car. Only about 150mph in a straight line would that Porsche have the ability to outrun the F4 because of its superior aerodynamics and power. The Porsche is a rolling chicane everywhere else.
911 Turbo S is fast but it is not a track prepared car, its only fast in a straight line. Second important thing is 911 Turbo S is nowhere near the fastest 911 available. 911 GT3 RS would be faster on track, then 911 GT3 RS from 2019 would be even faster as it generates much more downforce than 2015 version, then 911 GT2 RS would be even faster and then 911 GT2 RS MR is the fastest currently available 911 and it could easily make more than 5 seconds of difference. So yeah they should compare it with truly fast, track oriented 911 rather than the one which only appears to be fast.
Third thing is the track choice. This is probably a small, very technical circuit without long straights which favorizes F4. Let's try on a Monza and I bet 911 Turbo S will be much closer if not faster and something like already mentioned 911 GT2 RS MR would just destroy that F4 car. So this is a very biased comparison.
Not all of the road legal cars are slower than race cars. Slow race cars like F4 or maybe something like BTCC may be about as fast if not a bit slower than the fastest road legal cars (and 911 Turbo S is nowhere near the fastests 911s.
@@paulstevens9409 911 Turbo S is nowhere near the fastest road legal cars or fastest 911s. It's not even designed to be fast on a track. 911 GT3 RS would be faster than that, GT3 RS from 2019 would faster than 2015, then GT2 RS would be easily faster than GT3 RS and top of it GT2 RS MR would be even faster than standard GT2 RS. See? The actual fastest Porsche (not that sluggish Turbo S) would probably be as quick as that F4 car and remember this is a very slow, technical circuit. On a Monza GT2 RS would probably destroy it.
i loved watching this! great test!!!
at SPA francorshamps :
- the Fomula 3 is 30 seconds faster than the McLaren P1 and 35 seconds faster than the 911 Turbo S.
- the Formula 4 is 24 seconds faster than the McLaren P1 and 30 seconds faster than the Turbo S.
Formula 3 best lap at SPA : Max Verstappen 2014, in 2:11,1
McLaren P1 best lap at SPA 2:39
+pakkiaman2 Damn! I need a Formula 4 Car.
+pakkiaman2 It's also probably faster than the current F1 cars from McLaren :v
+Ric Rac hahaha
At Spa, I run the lamborghini murcielago in gt1 . And I never lose.
+pakkiaman2 ...and 2015 pole position at Belgian GP (Lewis Hamilton) was 1:47:197! Just to put things into perspective.
Great camera work and filming.
So a street car on street tires, with full interior, against a bathtub on slicks that isn't street legal. seems legit.
really interesting comparison, i enjoy videos like this a lot
I would like to see XBow RR versus a F4 ! I would like to know if its worth investing in a trailer to pull an open wheel car, or if there is a product out there that could roll its way in and out of the circuit on its on wheels.
That opening slow-mo looked bad ass.
Very glad to see Sutcliffe still at it. He is a very good auto journalist who I enjoy listening too. Need to follow him a little more closely. Very insightful
Awesome video! Yes, power to weight ratio is key.
Well I found that one very interesting, thanks again Steve.
Typical robot, always exaggerating ;)
Simply love the opening shot..
well of course the 911 is greatly out classed. this was an interesting comparison and I think the 911 did good. It impresses me.
Still a fun video. This video is not meant to compare apples:apples. It is intentionally an apples:oranges comparison. Old saying "get the right tool for the job" - In my opinion if you want a great lapping/weekend day car and can trailer, an F4 car is a great option. Inexpensive and you'll be hard pressed to have more fun then that! The Porsche is simply amazing in every aspect, including that you can drive it down, have a tonne of fun and drive home at the end of the day. 2 amazing cars, two difference purposes...I appreciate them both
2019
Drove both at Sepang (although not back to back); the F4 car is just super surefooted through the high speed stuff like turns 5 and 6, while the Turbo S moves around a lot there so you need commitment. The 911 is just *insanely* fast down the straights, though. Ran out of revs down the long straights in the F4, but the Turbo S just kept pulling and pulling and pulling. On a big Tilkedrome like Sepang, I think the Turbo S might just clinch it. That said, my choice would be... the 911 GT3. I was four sec. a lap faster in that car even though it was less powerful and only RWD.
I love that opening scene 👍
NEXT WEEK, on Autocar's Pointless Comparisons: A McLaren 650s vs. a go kart!
That would actually be kind of cool.
What's pointless here? The Porsche has a a huge horsepower advantage which to most people is the only thing that defines the performance of a car. If anything this dispels any notions of that being the sole defining factor of performance.
I imagine the massive torque of the Porsche also helps to counter the weight of the car in comparison to the light F4.
Had it been a racetrack with really long straights the comparison might have been more even.
Why would that be pointless?
On a track i would love to see it
That's racing slick on the formula four car, a wet lap comparison would be more interesting :)
Great review.
This match show how weight is much more important than power, when you deal with bends.
But in the real world forget the F4. If you want something light and fast for the real world, try Lotus Exige, for example.
You mean on the roads, because the track is still in the real world.
Well, you forget slick tyres and downforce...
PlagueIsMyName Yes! I forgot that! Thanks to remember!
But the weight is the main issue.
Alexandre Fernandes
The weight yes. But the single seater's center of gravity and roll center are so close to the ground it almost does not roll in corners. It can pull +2g in corners easily.
You can make a very tall car that weights light but it won't do well in corners.
The video also made a mistake. F4 has very little downforce (compare to F3, CN 2liter prototypes, etc), it relies heavily on mechanical grip, not aero grip. It's a go kart on steroid. I track an old Formula Renault 2.0 3 times a year. These cars are naturally faster than any sports car but extremely difficult to post very competitve lap times.
golferchin76 Yes, when I mentioned weight the center of gravity was included. And indeed, the car need a minimum weight to have the necessary grip. Thanks, for your contribute!
Awesome idea, video and motion capture. Congrats guys. You are always pioneers.
5:16 porsche guy checking if someone coming from other lane
Next up: Cessna Citation vs an F-16 in a dogfight
Everyone calm down... This was a necessary test to reset what, we the public, view in our minds as quick. I think the Porsche did very well but it's a street car with air conditioning, air bags, cup holders, etc.. Think about this, if the Porsche races a Formula 1 car, the F-1 team would have been packed up by the time the Porsche finished...
Six seconds on that track is like 6 minutes on the Ring
wow great job autocar, but what about straight line in comparison, must be good to watch
slick formula 1 track slicks compared to that of Porsche specified exotic dressed tires makes a difference especially on on track racing statistics & how much aero efficiency track chassis coverage these have.
911 GT held up understandably in given track arrangement
At 2:21, why is Chewbacca shooting pictures of the f4 car??
Cant drive the formula 4 on the street , obviously. Its awesome on the track and priced pretty damn well. Can anyone buy one of these?
is the 911 on racing slicks like the F4 ?
Interestingly huge difference in track performance... Wouldnt have guesses that.
If I had to own one it would be the formula car all day long. Basic, simple, effective.
A civic type r could outrun an f1 car
+jack dalisa In your dreams maybe. It cant even outrun this Porsche. The tested Car on the Nurburgring everyone talks about is not serial, it was called a "near serial prototype".
MrBigL100 it's a joke
+jack dalisa as a civic driver (my daily) i definitely agree. f1 car doesn't have anywhere close to a chance. haha nd f1 cars now have only 2 more cylinders! and some turbos. they got nothing on my naturally aspirated inline 4 though! ;D
+Connor DeYoung Racing Video proof or keep dreaming.Show us ur DD with upgrades vs the aforementioned car...
MAKE SURE to post link here of your car where you call me out in video of you as you race.....
shawnkiller90 dude chill it was a joke lmao. Civics are the slowest things on the face of the planet haha
Yes. Slick vs stock. Videotroll of the day.
Slicks are stock on an F4 car
000Haze
That´s what he means. The F4-car with its slicks would have run circles around the Porsche if it wouldn´t have been staged for TV.
lol 552hp vs 189hp lol.
Nizam Ahamad
LOL what? Both cars have the same power-to-weight ratio.
The Porsche won´t accelerate faster with its 1400kg against a 470kg F4- car just because it has 500hp. But the F4-car has slicks and lots of aero.
Nizam Ahamad 470kg vs 1700Kg not only the formula 4 car has more power per weight ratio but it has much more grip due to it slick tyres and aerodynamic, if only the Porsche had slick tires things would have been different
LOL!!! It's so funny how big and clumsy the Porsche looks running next to the F4 car. It's simply amazing!!!
Just curious, which production car (apart from Aerial Atom and any open wheel cars) could beat an F4 car on a circuit?
i think they know nothing about modify
not even a buggati chiron or maclaren p1 or 918 could even come close to a f4 car on a circuit unless they start wearing slicks and dicth there interior trim maybe a radical sr8 with 2 hayabusa engine sandwhich togeather making a v8 but that car is pretty much a formula car with head lights and semi slick barely road legal tires that car and the bac mono in its raciest trim but at that point of what you consider a road car might as well buy a formula 4 car.
Dax rush i guess
The engine sound of the formula 🔥😍
A real test would be seeing them both drive on a regular road. Let''s see how that F4 does against potholes.
How well do you think 911 handles potholes?
Bad, very bad research.
Price: ~177500£
0-62 mph: 2,9 s
Top Speed: 205 mph
Power: 572 hp (580 ps)
AWD (actually mentionned in the Video)
would be interesting to see how a 911 GT3 cup car would compare
344 Porsche owners watched this video! Take stock guys, the F4 is a designed for the track ONLY. The 911S is a fine automobile by all means.
Im still impressed watching the 911 try.
Exactly.... Porsche just useless.... it's heavy and bulky..... F4 car is the obvious choice.
Rarely do you hear someone say that Porsche is useless because it's heavy and bulky. lol But when you're comparing apples to oranges...
is that sarcasm?
go to work and do shopping in a F4 car, very pleasent experience
Dumy Jobby that's why i asked. I obviously think that the porsche is better but some people really like pure performance on the track. nothing more, and for that the f4 car is better.
MarksmanGamingVideos this video does prove though if you are shopping for a track day car don't waste your money on a porsche. I'm sure lots of people buy porsches only for track/recreational use and this video proves there are much better options out there. Fair comparison
Ridiculous comparison, but so fun! Thank you.
this was fun to watch. thanks autocar.
Chewbacca taking a photo in 2:21 :D
So next week the Turbo S vs GTR?
Now you're just talking crazy with cars that compete against each other. Next week, the Turbo S vs UK's finest taxi cab. Redemsion for the Turbo!
swinglow33 lol! We need this review because Steve Sutcliffe keeps gushing on about how superior the GTR is to other cars they put it against like the F10 M5. So put your money where your mouth is and test it against its strongest rival. I believe that the GTR will be beaten.
I don't think they want to embarrass the GTR that much.
chbrules that shit is already destroyed.
Ayrton Atif Indeed. Car Mag compared them and the GTR was slaughtered but it would be very amusing to see how Sutcliffe would try to talk the GTR out of that!
You should compare to a Superkart next time,
The twin cylinder preferably.
Would be interesting to see.
more onboard pls =D
What's the background music?
*Cant wait to drive my single seater :D*
Now i know that the Praga R1 y based in the formula 4 from Renault Racing Team.
It's obvious from the numbers (not to mention simple common sense) who would win. But it's just nice to see what all those numbers really look like in the real world. Good vid Autocar!
*looks at title* "well that's a stupid question!"
Next race: speed of light in a vacuum vs. soil erosion
Looks like they had some fun
Not every comparison test has to be a DIRECT comparison, you Yob-Os. Its showing the relative performance differences based on power, weight, cost, etc. - as everyone has a different scale of importance for each category, do the mental multiplication and come to your own conclusion
that porshce lap cut corners like crazy. so the actual difference is even larger.
The power to weight ratios are very similar between these two cars.
Although it is a cleaver to scalpel comparison......
I wish he'd let the PDK do the work - no doubt it would be faster than him.
Why were they claming that the f4 was a two cylinder when it clearly had 4 pipes on the header?!?
Brandy Niemeyer 2 liter
How about a GTI vs a P1?
i wish that one day they try a submarine vs i don't know F16??? that is totally fucked UP! but there is a point,you can go faster without spending tooo much! but we can't drive this F4 ON THE STREETS.
Check out the Formula Ford street racer
In the stats of the 911 at the beginning it says it is RWD then goes on about how it puts the power down with it's complex AWD...
I think the point in this review is to show the enormous importance of weight rather than power. Weight is way more important than power will ever be. But, proper drivers and car enthusiasts would know that already.
So, for £45k, you could get a track car that is mind-blowingly faster around a track than the 911 Turbo S.
And for £12k, you could get a bike that is mind-blowingly faster on the road than the 911 Turbo S.
But to get both pretty fast on a track and on the street, you have to pay £141k.
If you wanna be quickiest on race track-buy formula...if you wanna pull birds on high street buy Porsche....simples!:)
I love it! I must be the only UK petrol head without ever having a drivers licence. Good job I Have a mounting bike.
is it Steve as driver in both cars? and with slicks on both, the porsche could gain a little..
Those F4 cars are like karts with wings
I would like to see F4, F3, F2, F1 vs La Ferrari, P1, Bugatti SS, koenigsegg agra R, Toss in Pagani Zonda R :-)
Wow those things are quick. So if you want the best laptimes for your money get an open wheeler like an F4 car and a car trailer
you need a lot more than just a trailer to maintain an f4 car, keep in mind you cant just order parts online for those
I guess many of those who commented here forget that "fun" exist.
Of course it is pointless to compare these two, but no harm in doing so, it was quite intriguing.
So if we take away the aero performance, how close is a Caterham with a Cosworth?
The Porsche is useless on the road. It's FAR too fast, to the point of being entirely irrelevant. I can't even enjoy a modest hot-hatch on the road, because by the time you're actually reaching into the cars ability you're doing twice the speed limit, easily. And that's jail time, and that's just not worth it.
It's a great comparison this - for not much money (not necessarily an f4 car) you can get a single seater that's much more suited to track driving - it won't cook its tyres or its brakes, and every road car will do that after a few laps.
People talk about nurburgring lap times, and this that and the other when debating sports cars - it's all pointless, because its just people arguing about what compromised road car is fastest in an environment where it's as relevant as an articulated lorry.
Modern sports cars have lost the plot chasing speed and lap times and this video, while perhaps revealing the obvious, also makes you think about what you're spending your money for.
I do that with my STI everyday but always looking for police, lol
Sour grapes much?
1) It's not all about raw speed it's about responsiveness and 2) they have this thing called a track. I have an STI. I'll never top it out at 150+ mph. But just using it as a daily driver is fun. A regular econobox feels like driving a tractor in comparison.
msiley
I completely agree with you. Also thinking about handling, grip, sound, gear shifts... Driving a powerful car is loads of fun, even if you don't drive like a madman on public roads. I've got a modest Scirocco, but I enjoy every corner with it. What's an STI, a Subaru?
VentoRdrummeR Yes a Subaru. Before that was a 350Z. It would be hard to go back to normal cars. That's the only downfall of sportscars.
Best review
Race a F4 with some testing and you are right up there at £100k
Turbo S with slicks? Exciting comparison though!
That was an old tiptronic turbo. Put a 991 Turbo S on slicks up against it in 2017! I have a sneaking suspicion, that slicks and the newer generation would see it very close indeed.
very nice. the two cars are at par with each other in a very intense way. although the Porsche may have the sure defeat, the straight line did some damage to the Formula 4. ;)
I wish to see the Turbo S pitted against the GTR. I own a 2014 turbo S and I await to see a showdown between the two from autocar
on a wet track it would be more interessting. Or you could put the 911 on race tires
Not enough is said about the fact that the F4 car weighs LESS THAN A THIRD what the Porsche weighs. 515kg vs 1605kg. That's a huge difference, especially when it has fat racing tires. The power to weight ratios are actually similar in these cars, but mass is mass, and a circuit with any turns in it is going to slow down the massive road car.
Maybe they should have put some slicks on the Porsche. Tires make such a difference. Or road tires on the F4 car it would not have any grip at all. Still impressive how fast the little F4 car is tho.