Excellent presentation with a very smooth delivery. It was also nice that you did not appear to be biased in your factual presentation. Also, you gave great advice in that " the main thing is to ride different bikes and buy what is best for you."
Me to exempt from all the times the belt tensioner comes of or the belt snap's but if they could fix that plus making it Water thight it would be great,, also I'm tired of the battery just suddenly won't turn on
I have test driven many e-bikes and I own 2 e-bikes. My favorite by far is a 2018 iZip Moda with a Brose drive system. It is the quietest, most natural feeling e-bike drive system made. I also used a Specialized bike with a Brose system for 45 miles and 2600 feet of elevation in the mountains in Colorado. It is just amazing. I think the Specialized tuning of the Brose system is even better because it does shift detection where the iZip did not. I have 1500 miles on the Brose bike and 4000 on my other bike a Diamondback Lindau which has a rear hub motor. The advantage of the hub motor is that I can put less effort into the bike (or no effort as it has a throttle) so if it is a very hot humid day and I am commuting to work I take the hub motor. If I am going for a bike ride with other people I always take the Brose mid drive system. The hub motor bike is awesome if I am by myself because it kind of goes the speeds it wants to go based upon the settings. The Brose mid drive system is more like a normal bike and also works great even with the motor turned off. I can go whatever speed the other person I am riding with wants to go.
I have test driven Bosch systems and the noise and drag when turned off are deal breakers for me. That being said the Bosch system is very nice and better than other drive systems.
From a mechanical perspective, I can't stand Bosch and their decision to use a chainsuck inducing 16-20t sprocket in place of a conventional 32t or larger chainring. I understand why they did it, but it definitely means more frequent servicing and usually an increased bill for maintenance. I also hate the speed restrictions on a 250w Bosch motor (Thanks Europe), they feel stupid out on the roads here. Sure, you can unlock it to 350w, but that's for certified dealers to do with expensive hardware to make it happen at an additional cost. All of the bikes I sell are tweaked from the bikes display, no additional cables or dongles required. Currently riding a 250w Bafang max drive. Absolutely love it. Square tapered cranks probably aren't so great for this bike, but they're not as unreliable or prone to failure as some would like to believe, even over relatively extreme terrain. Torque sensor responds quickly, a common complaint with the Brose motors, especially among mountain bikers.
The Bafang max drive is great, and more companies are starting to use it on their bikes. Bosch still has rock solid reliability, and if you really want to go fast they make the performance speed motor for a lot of bikes in the US. Their under the hood battery tech and motor software still make for a great ride and a long lasting product.
NYCeWheels The Chinese have won once we start seeing Bafang used by common bicycle manufacturers. I'm not sure if that will happen or not, but I do think the max drive is perfectly competitive enough to have a bigger name. Most importantly, it offers a great deal of flexibility for manufacturers, as they don't lock you down to using their batteries and displays. The bike I'm riding now is a colour display and a very securely mounted hailong/panasonic pack. Torque and cadence sensing.
The bike forums tend to be places where people dump their problems, hence the excessive amount of negative reports . However, Bosch is still the number one e bike motor sold in germany because they are very reliable. As far as " unlocking " the restrictor it is extremely easy and relatively cheap. I have a " BadASS destrictor on my bosch CX motor . It only costs about 130 euros and took all of 30 seconds to install. Yo e been misled.
Good video. Do a video on bike seating positions, considering the users needs! For example, getting a racer (leaning forward on your hands) vs. a cruiser (sitting upright).
Brose is the best on the market imho, very quiet and nice to ride as long as the implementation is good. I've ridden Specialized and Fantic bikes with Brose and they are very good.
Well. I would not say both are the, "Best e-motors." Bosch, is the monopoly of E-motors. Brose, is powerful, reliable, but requires a large battery for it's appetite. Shimano STEPS E8000, needs to be quieter and more rider-friendly to maintenance. All require a li-ion battery. Big disadvantage. This day & age, with bike manufacturers ranting about the environment, we'd expect a lithium-sulfer battery, offering more wattage, longer range, and faster recharge-times, as well as a longer-lasting (a couple hundred extra recharges beyond a li-ion). Graphene batteries are another excellent outlook. Li-ion, is nasty to dispose of. A hazardous waste material. Graphene and li-sulfur, much more environmentally conscious. And what of natural gas bikes? Anyway, the best under-rated, under-appreciated e-motor is the Panasonic GX ultimate. I have punished this motor daily, everyday, for the last 430 days. Cold, heat, rain, thunderstorms, freezing rain, snow, 20F temperatures. And the only needed replacement has been the battery (Winter weather killed it). Lighter than Brose. Friendlier than Bosch. Longer range than both.
We don't have any bikes yet with the Yamaha System. I know Court from ElectricBikeReview.com has a comparison video for those two systems. The reason these companies have motors at that wattage are because e-bikes don't need anything more than that for great performance. They're also all pedal assist only motors, so no matter what, you'll require power from your legs to help the motor along. These motors still peak over 500w when climbing hills, but are able to stay lightweight and extremely efficient with a more modest watt nominal rating. Watts does not equal power, and a human on a bicycle doesn't need anything more than 350w on a mid drive or 500w on a hub drive to give high performance, lower weight, and high efficiency for long range. This also allows for use of smaller batteries, which keeps the bike light. Don't be fooled by the DIY people than put 1000w mid drives on a mediocre bike and call it a top of the line machine. That motor most of the time is unnecessary weight, and a destroyer of drive trains. You won't be disappointed with a Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, or Shimano mid drive system. These companies have all done a nice job putting top notch products out. Check out our selection of bikes here: www.nycewheels.com/bikes.html
Well in that case, you'll generally not find many quality mid drives with throttles. We have hub motor bikes from iGo and Blix that include throttles and are great bang for you buck.
They're a nice choice for installing kits onto existing bikes on a budget, but simply doesn't compare to the technology inside both of these motors. Both have been leaders in automotive technology for decades and that translated to their high quality products. These have sensors going off 1000 times per second for the most responsive pedal assist possible.
NYCeWheels It doesn't matter for me if it has the best responsive pedal assist if it's 3 or more times less powerful, doesn't have throttle and price for such bikes is inadequate for me. Yes, maybe it's well engineered and has a nice design but the only advantage I see really is those advanced sensors but I like throttle more anyway. Bafang HD is perfect for throttle use and have pedal assist sensor which is actually enough for me.
brose motor is a complete fail. brose had to up the warranty from 2 to 44 years because they are failing . many people have had 2 to 3 motor replacement by brose in just 1 year. I had mine already replaced in 5 months. the belt breaks easily . and the bearing go bad . wait a few more years when brose makes its motor better as Bosch did.
I have a bicycle with a Yamaha PW motor and I love it. It is powerful, has a double chainring set up in the same way as the Brose which I really like, providing a bigger speed range while riding without motor support and being very smooth due to an inbuild freewheel in the motor, which detaches the motor from the bottom bracket when riding without the motor support.
I've been googling a bit and it seems some Bosch motors are actually very unreliable, specifically the Performance Line CX (which I have). I've read many forum threads of people going through several motors. I think the one I have is still ok, but it's only a couple of weeks old. One theory I've heard is that water gets into the bearings and they rust. So if you have a Bosch bike don't use it in the rain, and if you don't... don't buy one, not worth the risk.
I'm watching this to get advice, on the two motors. I find its hard to believe anything this guy says because he is so fat. so, I assume he does not ride bikes at all. how can I take him serious. its like having a fat personal trainer. just stating it how it is
Excellent presentation with a very smooth delivery. It was also nice that you did not appear to be biased in your factual presentation. Also, you gave great advice in that " the main thing is to ride different bikes and buy what is best for you."
Every single person I know has had a blown motor in their Turbo Levo bikes. It is now 7/11/20. Spme have had 2 and 3 motors blown.
Really loving the Brose drive in the Specialized Turbo Levo.
John Durkin yes its a hell of a machine🦾💀
Me to exempt from all the times the belt tensioner comes of or the belt snap's but if they could fix that plus making it Water thight it would be great,, also I'm tired of the battery just suddenly won't turn on
THANK you for explaining the tiny front chainring on the Bosch in a way that finally made sense to me!
Happy to help!
I have test driven many e-bikes and I own 2 e-bikes. My favorite by far is a 2018 iZip Moda with a Brose drive system. It is the quietest, most natural feeling e-bike drive system made. I also used a Specialized bike with a Brose system for 45 miles and 2600 feet of elevation in the mountains in Colorado. It is just amazing. I think the Specialized tuning of the Brose system is even better because it does shift detection where the iZip did not.
I have 1500 miles on the Brose bike and 4000 on my other bike a Diamondback Lindau which has a rear hub motor. The advantage of the hub motor is that I can put less effort into the bike (or no effort as it has a throttle) so if it is a very hot humid day and I am commuting to work I take the hub motor. If I am going for a bike ride with other people I always take the Brose mid drive system.
The hub motor bike is awesome if I am by myself because it kind of goes the speeds it wants to go based upon the settings. The Brose mid drive system is more like a normal bike and also works great even with the motor turned off. I can go whatever speed the other person I am riding with wants to go.
I have test driven Bosch systems and the noise and drag when turned off are deal breakers for me. That being said the Bosch system is very nice and better than other drive systems.
Great advice on liking the bike rather than the motor choice!!
From a mechanical perspective, I can't stand Bosch and their decision to use a chainsuck inducing 16-20t sprocket in place of a conventional 32t or larger chainring. I understand why they did it, but it definitely means more frequent servicing and usually an increased bill for maintenance. I also hate the speed restrictions on a 250w Bosch motor (Thanks Europe), they feel stupid out on the roads here. Sure, you can unlock it to 350w, but that's for certified dealers to do with expensive hardware to make it happen at an additional cost. All of the bikes I sell are tweaked from the bikes display, no additional cables or dongles required.
Currently riding a 250w Bafang max drive. Absolutely love it. Square tapered cranks probably aren't so great for this bike, but they're not as unreliable or prone to failure as some would like to believe, even over relatively extreme terrain. Torque sensor responds quickly, a common complaint with the Brose motors, especially among mountain bikers.
The Bafang max drive is great, and more companies are starting to use it on their bikes. Bosch still has rock solid reliability, and if you really want to go fast they make the performance speed motor for a lot of bikes in the US. Their under the hood battery tech and motor software still make for a great ride and a long lasting product.
NYCeWheels The Chinese have won once we start seeing Bafang used by common bicycle manufacturers. I'm not sure if that will happen or not, but I do think the max drive is perfectly competitive enough to have a bigger name.
Most importantly, it offers a great deal of flexibility for manufacturers, as they don't lock you down to using their batteries and displays. The bike I'm riding now is a colour display and a very securely mounted hailong/panasonic pack. Torque and cadence sensing.
The bike forums tend to be places where people dump their problems, hence the excessive amount of negative reports . However, Bosch is still the number one e bike motor sold in germany because they are very reliable. As far as " unlocking " the restrictor it is extremely easy and relatively cheap. I have a " BadASS destrictor on my bosch CX motor . It only costs about 130 euros and took all of 30 seconds to install. Yo e been misled.
Excellent video..very informative!
Good video.
Do a video on bike seating positions, considering the users needs!
For example, getting a racer (leaning forward on your hands) vs. a cruiser (sitting upright).
Brose is the best on the market imho, very quiet and nice to ride as long as the implementation is good. I've ridden Specialized and Fantic bikes with Brose and they are very good.
I like my specialized turbo vado bike alot i think it has Brose 90nm motor and 465wh battery that's over kill for my use
You know your equipment! Great video!
Well. I would not say both are the, "Best e-motors." Bosch, is the monopoly of E-motors. Brose, is powerful, reliable, but requires a large battery for it's appetite. Shimano STEPS E8000, needs to be quieter and more rider-friendly to maintenance. All require a li-ion battery. Big disadvantage. This day & age, with bike manufacturers ranting about the environment, we'd expect a lithium-sulfer battery, offering more wattage, longer range, and faster recharge-times, as well as a longer-lasting (a couple hundred extra recharges beyond a li-ion). Graphene batteries are another excellent outlook. Li-ion, is nasty to dispose of. A hazardous waste material. Graphene and li-sulfur, much more environmentally conscious. And what of natural gas bikes?
Anyway, the best under-rated, under-appreciated e-motor is the Panasonic GX ultimate. I have punished this motor daily, everyday, for the last 430 days. Cold, heat, rain, thunderstorms, freezing rain, snow, 20F temperatures. And the only needed replacement has been the battery (Winter weather killed it). Lighter than Brose. Friendlier than Bosch. Longer range than both.
Can you do Bosch vs Yamaha? Also how come mid drive motors on the manufacturer end only use 250-350 Watt motors? Please advise.
We don't have any bikes yet with the Yamaha System. I know Court from ElectricBikeReview.com has a comparison video for those two systems.
The reason these companies have motors at that wattage are because e-bikes don't need anything more than that for great performance. They're also all pedal assist only motors, so no matter what, you'll require power from your legs to help the motor along. These motors still peak over 500w when climbing hills, but are able to stay lightweight and extremely efficient with a more modest watt nominal rating. Watts does not equal power, and a human on a bicycle doesn't need anything more than 350w on a mid drive or 500w on a hub drive to give high performance, lower weight, and high efficiency for long range. This also allows for use of smaller batteries, which keeps the bike light. Don't be fooled by the DIY people than put 1000w mid drives on a mediocre bike and call it a top of the line machine. That motor most of the time is unnecessary weight, and a destroyer of drive trains.
You won't be disappointed with a Bosch, Brose, Yamaha, or Shimano mid drive system. These companies have all done a nice job putting top notch products out. Check out our selection of bikes here: www.nycewheels.com/bikes.html
Brose is the best joice. Its so quit
Thumb throttle on the Brose?
Thank You Very Much !!!
An excellent vid, the right info not bull..
Frm
Whr I cn buy Bosch motor
Hi. What are those glasses you are wearing?
Oakley Jawbreakers
Was that the cross rip
The bikes featured in this video are from Bulls and Easy Motion. The drop bar bike is the Bulls Dail-E Grinder.
great
Is those more fun to use than hub motors?
Well that's totally up to personal preference, but many people do enjoy hub motor bikes.
NYCeWheels
Yes, I cant decide what to go for, A mid motor sounds best but I also want to use it without pedaling.
Well in that case, you'll generally not find many quality mid drives with throttles. We have hub motor bikes from iGo and Blix that include throttles and are great bang for you buck.
2 2 yes...by far more fun
Yamaha e-bike Is top.
Bafang BBSHD is the best motor for me.
They're a nice choice for installing kits onto existing bikes on a budget, but simply doesn't compare to the technology inside both of these motors. Both have been leaders in automotive technology for decades and that translated to their high quality products. These have sensors going off 1000 times per second for the most responsive pedal assist possible.
Bafang Ultra Drive is better than BBSHD - 160Nm/1000W
NYCeWheels It doesn't matter for me if it has the best responsive pedal assist if it's 3 or more times less powerful, doesn't have throttle and price for such bikes is inadequate for me. Yes, maybe it's well engineered and has a nice design but the only advantage I see really is those advanced sensors but I like throttle more anyway. Bafang HD is perfect for throttle use and have pedal assist sensor which is actually enough for me.
benzoesan sodu Better in what? BBSHD can operate at 2500W.
Bafang is shit. That one doesn't have have torque sensors lol! You are clearly drinking the juice.
brose motor is a complete fail. brose had to up the warranty from 2 to 44 years because they are failing . many people have had 2 to 3 motor replacement by brose in just 1 year. I had mine already replaced in 5 months. the belt breaks easily . and the bearing go bad . wait a few more years when brose makes its motor better as Bosch did.
Bosch is the best !!!
Bosch is definitely one of the best, super reliable system!
I have a bicycle with a Yamaha PW motor and I love it. It is powerful, has a double chainring set up in the same way as the Brose which I really like, providing a bigger speed range while riding without motor support and being very smooth due to an inbuild freewheel in the motor, which detaches the motor from the bottom bracket when riding without the motor support.
I've been googling a bit and it seems some Bosch motors are actually very unreliable, specifically the Performance Line CX (which I have). I've read many forum threads of people going through several motors. I think the one I have is still ok, but it's only a couple of weeks old.
One theory I've heard is that water gets into the bearings and they rust. So if you have a Bosch bike don't use it in the rain, and if you don't... don't buy one, not worth the risk.
@@atnfn I have the performance line CX since 2016, 0 problems.
I'm watching this to get advice, on the two motors. I find its hard to believe anything this guy says because he is so fat. so, I assume he does not ride bikes at all. how can I take him serious. its like having a fat personal trainer. just stating it how it is
gooni goo goo eat poop....he is a wrench.....your momma fat