Kemoy is a beast. He stopped into our open mats at one point and I had no idea who he was - not the one to roll with with a hangover lol. He tossed me around - now that he’s in Austin full time it’ll only get better
I get the idea of sub only, but if there's a time limit, you might as well just have points instead of "hiding" them for the decision. If you really want to do sub only, you got to do no time limit.
It all depends on the rules of the match. There will be point fighters, who will intentionally stall and such just to eventually win if they are ahead. The first person I saw do that type of point fighting wasn't even a grappler, but Maurice Smith in the UFC and his Kickboxing matches. I agree with you though, but in some cases a grappling match could last for who knows how long, without any subs if it was only a sub only match.
@@phuckfumassters That is exactly what Royler did with Eddie Bravo. He stalled until the very end, then it was considered a tie. Yet, Royler was the one with a fucked up leg, due to refusing to tap.
BJJ butt scooching because he is unable to do anything on his feet then stall the whole match? Sure. Butt scoochers should be forced to stay o their feet if the other part refuses to engage too. The ruleset in BJJ is straight up retarded, one part refuses to engage on their feet and drag their ass on the mat like a dog with worms, and the opponent must try to enter on their guard instead of restart the match on their feet. It is useless outside of BJJ ruleset you do that in a real fight and you get your calf light up with side kicks.
Only difference between headlocks and such in mma vs wrestling is having the opponent's arm in vs out.out is a choke obviously vs having the arm in. We were figuring out chokes in jr high and had no clue what they were called and realised why wrestling rules were that way.
Great advantage with wrestling especially in the US. NJ for example has a ton of clubs and teams starting them at peewee (5-6) up thru bantam (7-8) midget (9-10) (they tried to change that name to ‘novice’ so real midgets wouldn’t take offense - totally lame cave to leftwing BS), juniors (11-12), and finally intermediates (13-14). Even kids as young as 4 can start. Almost every town has a recreation level wrestling team whose league fees are paid by their town. Every club has live wrestling every class and there are tournaments almost every weekend almost all year round sometimes more than one in a weekend. That means say a kid starts at 6 and attends club classes two to three times a week and regularly attends tournaments, by the time that kid is 15 in 9th grade ready for JV or varsity, he has wrestled potentially a few hundred competitive matches and a few hundred more in training. That’s an incredible amount of experience so most kids who follow that path can tear it up at any judo or BJJ club when they go into it. It’s all about mat time. Funny enough my kid learned his first submission when he was 9 just seeing them in video games.
While wrestling translates well into a TIMED match, I believe Morelli would've lost if there was no clock. Anderson was wearing him out but Morelli did a good job of staying the course. I mean, wow, normal people w/o skills would be over in 15 secs by either one of them. Great match.
There actually used to be submission only tournaments with no time limits, all the way back to the 1990s. Look at all the arguments in this thread where one side is saying one dude won, and the other didn't. All pointing to what would be "points" or "advantage points". I didn't even bother to watch the match because the comments said it all. This guy won because this guy did this, and the other one didn't because this guy did that. The word "only" means "only". Why bother watching this stuff if it isn't that way???? I wish someone would answer that simple question. Sub only means one thing, sub only. No submission, no win. Let the people argue I guess. In the meantime, the title is click bait. When are we going to see former BJJ black belt vs. D1 NCAA champ one week out of winning the division... in wrestling. I did both, no bias, but this click bait gets really old, and always shows up on my feed.
It ultimately depends upon the code, rules, or style that the format of the match is: Freestyle or wrestling rules, the wrestler wins. Submission/judo rules, the ju-jitsu guy wins. It’s the same as American football and international rugby players playing in each other’s sport.
Just goes to show wrestling dominates all other styles of combat. Just take a look at the record books in ufc. A lot of bjj guys at the top level were former wrestlers as well . I’m co suffered a white belt and have had my fair share of ripping apart blue purple and brown belts. Just need to stay more consistent in a gym so I can get a belt lol
Wrestlers been on the line since pre school. This is were they excel. Much more mat experience and they're able to go 100% longer. Jujitsu guys at a disadvantage. They need to start cross training their kids to wrestling will see its not a great idea to fight off their backs
In theory it makes sense, if you maintain dominant control and can inflict damage you have the advantage. But competition wise, I agree it's nice to just have submission only or it's a draw
The transition from wrestling to BJJ is much more natural and guys are more successful than if BJJ guys transition to wrestling, albeit it happens infrequently. Another note that’s a little off topic for here is how tend to Greco-Roman wrestlers have better success in MMA than freestyle wrestlers, but freestyle and folkstyle wrestlers transition to grappling better. One big difference you see is folkstyle wrestlers having better success MMA than freestyle wrestlers from other countries. I understand most American folkstyle wrestlers also wrestle freestyle but the folkstyle scrambling, riding, and control has a big MMA benefit because there’s not a lot of riding time and control in freestyle because they will stand you up so fast if you are stagnant for a few seconds.
Oh Anderson needs to focus on his sweeps he needs to practice sweeps to deal with wrestlers. When I was going to college I would like to say that I trained in the holy Trinity of grappling judo wrestling and Brazilian jujitsu. I wasn’t the best but I was crafty at scrambles and sweeps and sometimes wrestlers will allow me to practice with them those guys are a tough man hard training
I do bjj myself but i don‘t usually Watch bjj especially only Submission. Its actually so boring just sitting down an no pressure due to no point rule. I just love wrestling much more
Lot of BJJ guys get so angry if it doesn't end in a sub especially when wrestlers come in to compete as if the sub legitimizes the martial art aspect and takes away the sport aspect. That is a very skewed lens, you still have guys pulling guard and different rules that are accommodating for BJJ. So no matter how you look at it, it will always be more sport driven as long as you are structuring rules to equalize a match. MMA is sport driven too, due to the rules, but its less restrictive and there's a reason why BJJ background fighters haven't been doing so well as MMA has evolved. Look at combat BJJ posts and see how many BJJ practitioners are reacting negatively and saying that you should just be doing MMA then. Now what is popular is No-gi submission only, which seems like the right direction, but has just evolved over time to practitioners adapting to the direction of rules to the sport. It hasn't made the sport more "realistic" or martial arts-driven, its just a bunch of guys training for a different sport with different competition rules.
that dude is a D-1 champion wrestler....he ain't no damn purple belt. Just cause he is awarded one doesn't mean he is one. The dude has AT LEAST black belt level grappling.
Not really a fan of submission only rules. It, like other rules and mindsets, discounts the value of position and control and incentivizes inaction. The value of pinning I think is also completely discarded. I don't think grappling needs 3 count pins but maybe a long enough ride in a dominant position with no escape or sub from opponent can result in a pin or to the very least tracking ride time like in wrestling. When grapplers on the bottom throw their hands up because they can't move it usually means they got pinned but its nonexistent in the rules. See Eddie Bravo vs Hoyler Gracie 2. The only way Hoyler gets out of stoner control is by Eddie letting it happen. Complete control and immobilization. If being controlled for the majority of a match results in a draw, while consistent with a ruleset, is a very lopsided draw and I wouldn't want to be the one being controlled. Also, I am completely baffled as to why they start on their feet in these and any other grappling tournament if they can just sit down and that is the trendy thing to do. Furthermore, why does someone who did not put themselves on the ground have an obligation to be active while the one sitting can just lay there and defend? Both grapplers have equal obligation to be active in all positions up or down. I just think grappling sport has moved too far away from the context of a martial art, being mindful of its nature of combat. There are no strikes in grappling but I don't think competitions should then build around the idea that the threat of being struck, immobilized or put in an inferior position is nonexistent and in their absence invent exotic things like worm guard, donkey, octopus and guard pulling. I am just less interested in the sportive aspect of popular grappling I suppose. That skews my view on it.
Yeah I agree. In prison we used to fight out our personal problems with someone we had a problem with. So we didn't get the yard locked down we fought in a cell far from the guard shack. Concrete and steel bunks and steel toilets and cramped space didn't make well for grappling and submissions. I saw a bjj guy seriously get hurt by getting his head smashed against the thing steel edge of a bunk. Not effective in prison.
Absolutely true. Training wrestling & BJJ for barroom type engagements is fine, but some standing boxing/kickboxing skills will serve you well. Nearly every guy has a friend in a bar that could easily end your night with a kick to your head in any position.
Wrestler dominated again. These jiu-jitsu guys need to watch rickson gracie not Royce they lay on their back too much. At least this guy was able to try a few submissions
Pulling guard is just lame. Its a fight, you have to engage, sitting down is a straight bore show. What if both guys just scooted around on their butts like old ladies? The take down is the fun part. Sumo rules with emphasis on take down.
BJJ fighter brown belt doesn't know to do anything on his feet then proceeds to butt scooch, meh, that should be punished as usual BJJ players only fight tournaments that benefit their stupid moves. Pathetic performance of the BJJ fighter.
Seen it many many times. A stronger athlete can nullify attacks. Granted he can't finish you off but you can't finish him off in just 15 minutes especially if he is an A level player is a closely related discipline.
@@SlapwillMotivate I think people forget grappling entails wrestling lol like people only say grappling when referring to submissions now like it’s not a whole umbrella term
@@SlapwillMotivate That's like saying go to a flat earther conference and tell them the earth is round. Of course it's a real sport. I think he means sub only will never be marketable. IMO wrestling and boxing rule sets reward things that matter more in most fights, establishing dominant position on a hard surface and strikes, not to mention pushing the pace.
Everyone gets that wrestlers bring takedowns and scrambles but relentless head control is huge too, especially in long matches.
That's like frosh soph instructions, if you control the head you control the body....
Kemoy is a beast. He stopped into our open mats at one point and I had no idea who he was - not the one to roll with with a hangover lol. He tossed me around - now that he’s in Austin full time it’ll only get better
I get the idea of sub only, but if there's a time limit, you might as well just have points instead of "hiding" them for the decision. If you really want to do sub only, you got to do no time limit.
It all depends on the rules of the match. There will be point fighters, who will intentionally stall and such just to eventually win if they are ahead. The first person I saw do that type of point fighting wasn't even a grappler, but Maurice Smith in the UFC and his Kickboxing matches. I agree with you though, but in some cases a grappling match could last for who knows how long, without any subs if it was only a sub only match.
or with a time limit with (no winner) if your both stalling.
@@phuckfumassters That is exactly what Royler did with Eddie Bravo. He stalled until the very end, then it was considered a tie. Yet, Royler was the one with a fucked up leg, due to refusing to tap.
@@alanguages aka boxing
Yeah I thought that was strange too.
Way to go Geno, I can't believe you just got your purple, well done. congrats!!
The hardest part for me going from wrestling to submission MMA style grappling was that it's ok to go to your back to avoid an even worse situation.
Don’t understand the hate. The match was decent, both gents performed well. Nothing ground breaking- but good performances nonetheless
Lay and pray = boring point game
Is that difficult to comprehend?
@@sharkparty1027 why dont you get out there and show us how it's done.
@@sharkparty1027 I thought is was very tactical imo.
@@sharkparty1027 lay and pray? That’s probably what you do with your low level friends. Good luck “laying” on a high level athlete. You’re trippin
BJJ butt scooching because he is unable to do anything on his feet then stall the whole match? Sure.
Butt scoochers should be forced to stay o their feet if the other part refuses to engage too. The ruleset in BJJ is straight up retarded, one part refuses to engage on their feet and drag their ass on the mat like a dog with worms, and the opponent must try to enter on their guard instead of restart the match on their feet. It is useless outside of BJJ ruleset you do that in a real fight and you get your calf light up with side kicks.
I heard the name Gino Morelli and I was like “hmmmm, I wonder if this is the PSU guy?” 😂
Only difference between headlocks and such in mma vs wrestling is having the opponent's arm in vs out.out is a choke obviously vs having the arm in. We were figuring out chokes in jr high and had no clue what they were called and realised why wrestling rules were that way.
Wrestling is an ace as always
Great advantage with wrestling especially in the US. NJ for example has a ton of clubs and teams starting them at peewee (5-6) up thru bantam (7-8) midget (9-10) (they tried to change that name to ‘novice’ so real midgets wouldn’t take offense - totally lame cave to leftwing BS), juniors (11-12), and finally intermediates (13-14). Even kids as young as 4 can start. Almost every town has a recreation level wrestling team whose league fees are paid by their town. Every club has live wrestling every class and there are tournaments almost every weekend almost all year round sometimes more than one in a weekend. That means say a kid starts at 6 and attends club classes two to three times a week and regularly attends tournaments, by the time that kid is 15 in 9th grade ready for JV or varsity, he has wrestled potentially a few hundred competitive matches and a few hundred more in training. That’s an incredible amount of experience so most kids who follow that path can tear it up at any judo or BJJ club when they go into it. It’s all about mat time. Funny enough my kid learned his first submission when he was 9 just seeing them in video games.
While wrestling translates well into a TIMED match, I believe Morelli would've lost if there was no clock. Anderson was wearing him out but Morelli did a good job of staying the course. I mean, wow, normal people w/o skills would be over in 15 secs by either one of them. Great match.
And I believe on the streets the wrestler would have still won this match a lot earlier
" Anderson was wearing him out "...wearing out a Div 1 wrestler lol...
Kemoy is trosh
There actually used to be submission only tournaments with no time limits, all the way back to the 1990s. Look at all the arguments in this thread where one side is saying one dude won, and the other didn't. All pointing to what would be "points" or "advantage points". I didn't even bother to watch the match because the comments said it all. This guy won because this guy did this, and the other one didn't because this guy did that. The word "only" means "only". Why bother watching this stuff if it isn't that way???? I wish someone would answer that simple question. Sub only means one thing, sub only. No submission, no win. Let the people argue I guess. In the meantime, the title is click bait. When are we going to see former BJJ black belt vs. D1 NCAA champ one week out of winning the division... in wrestling. I did both, no bias, but this click bait gets really old, and always shows up on my feed.
It ultimately depends upon the code, rules, or style that the format of the match is: Freestyle or wrestling rules, the wrestler wins. Submission/judo rules, the ju-jitsu guy wins. It’s the same as American football and international rugby players playing in each other’s sport.
It’s nice to see wrestlers doing jujitsu
Just goes to show wrestling dominates all other styles of combat. Just take a look at the record books in ufc. A lot of bjj guys at the top level were former wrestlers as well . I’m co suffered a white belt and have had my fair share of ripping apart blue purple and brown belts. Just need to stay more consistent in a gym so I can get a belt lol
Wrestlers been on the line since pre school. This is were they excel. Much more mat experience and they're able to go 100% longer. Jujitsu guys at a disadvantage. They need to start cross training their kids to wrestling will see its not a great idea to fight off their backs
You're co suffered a white belt?
Wrestling with jiujitsu training
So bjj comps are position over submission? so no clear submission attempts = a win?
In theory it makes sense, if you maintain dominant control and can inflict damage you have the advantage. But competition wise, I agree it's nice to just have submission only or it's a draw
As soon as I seen Penn State I knew 🤼
😂
very good control all match. I wonder if he could have applied a high mount to go for an armbar or triangle
The transition from wrestling to BJJ is much more natural and guys are more successful than if BJJ guys transition to wrestling, albeit it happens infrequently.
Another note that’s a little off topic for here is how tend to Greco-Roman wrestlers have better success in MMA than freestyle wrestlers, but freestyle and folkstyle wrestlers transition to grappling better. One big difference you see is folkstyle wrestlers having better success MMA than freestyle wrestlers from other countries. I understand most American folkstyle wrestlers also wrestle freestyle but the folkstyle scrambling, riding, and control has a big MMA benefit because there’s not a lot of riding time and control in freestyle because they will stand you up so fast if you are stagnant for a few seconds.
Oh Anderson needs to focus on his sweeps he needs to practice sweeps to deal with wrestlers. When I was going to college I would like to say that I trained in the holy Trinity of grappling judo wrestling and Brazilian jujitsu. I wasn’t the best but I was crafty at scrambles and sweeps and sometimes wrestlers will allow me to practice with them those guys are a tough man hard training
This is beautiful 🤩
Very athletic dudes, who would crush you... But not the most technical... Like bezerker blue belts...
Hahaha, that’s my old coach from Integraçion Jiu Jitsu reffing. What’s up Gabriel?!
Brad flared him up 😂. He's very handsome too 😻.
I want to see a sumo against one of these guys.
In sumo you can't grab the legs so they wouldn't be used to a lot of stuff. It would be more interesting seeing these guys in sumo
I do bjj myself but i don‘t usually Watch bjj especially only Submission. Its actually so boring just sitting down an no pressure due to no point rule. I just love wrestling much more
A 10th planet member that pulls guard? Shocking.
For some reason the interview guy doesn’t seem to think wrestling is grappling. To me it is.
But he thinks that drag his ass on the mat and stall is.
Those mats are inviting to break a toe.
What is next, a match between a tennis player and a ping pong player ?
Super boring. You need points to make the athletes feel pressure to get stuff done.
Lot of BJJ guys get so angry if it doesn't end in a sub especially when wrestlers come in to compete as if the sub legitimizes the martial art aspect and takes away the sport aspect. That is a very skewed lens, you still have guys pulling guard and different rules that are accommodating for BJJ. So no matter how you look at it, it will always be more sport driven as long as you are structuring rules to equalize a match. MMA is sport driven too, due to the rules, but its less restrictive and there's a reason why BJJ background fighters haven't been doing so well as MMA has evolved.
Look at combat BJJ posts and see how many BJJ practitioners are reacting negatively and saying that you should just be doing MMA then. Now what is popular is No-gi submission only, which seems like the right direction, but has just evolved over time to practitioners adapting to the direction of rules to the sport. It hasn't made the sport more "realistic" or martial arts-driven, its just a bunch of guys training for a different sport with different competition rules.
Damn lucky no punches were allowed in that fight, don't F with a wrestler who has even a little BJJ background. Warriors from the age of 4
that dude is a D-1 champion wrestler....he ain't no damn purple belt. Just cause he is awarded one doesn't mean he is one. The dude has AT LEAST black belt level grappling.
Great match :)
Not really a fan of submission only rules. It, like other rules and mindsets, discounts the value of position and control and incentivizes inaction. The value of pinning I think is also completely discarded. I don't think grappling needs 3 count pins but maybe a long enough ride in a dominant position with no escape or sub from opponent can result in a pin or to the very least tracking ride time like in wrestling. When grapplers on the bottom throw their hands up because they can't move it usually means they got pinned but its nonexistent in the rules. See Eddie Bravo vs Hoyler Gracie 2. The only way Hoyler gets out of stoner control is by Eddie letting it happen. Complete control and immobilization. If being controlled for the majority of a match results in a draw, while consistent with a ruleset, is a very lopsided draw and I wouldn't want to be the one being controlled.
Also, I am completely baffled as to why they start on their feet in these and any other grappling tournament if they can just sit down and that is the trendy thing to do. Furthermore, why does someone who did not put themselves on the ground have an obligation to be active while the one sitting can just lay there and defend? Both grapplers have equal obligation to be active in all positions up or down.
I just think grappling sport has moved too far away from the context of a martial art, being mindful of its nature of combat. There are no strikes in grappling but I don't think competitions should then build around the idea that the threat of being struck, immobilized or put in an inferior position is nonexistent and in their absence invent exotic things like worm guard, donkey, octopus and guard pulling. I am just less interested in the sportive aspect of popular grappling I suppose. That skews my view on it.
Agree with a lot of what you said but at the end of the day, position advantage did give Geno the win.
Why call it submission only? We really don't know who is best without a submission.
I skipped through, glad I did. Lay and pray = death of BJJ
Yeah well, as they say- stop being the prey, learn how to lay. BJJ usually loses that battle.
Side mount and mount win street altercations.
Death of bjj but he's a bjj purple belt ok 👍
@@shad3128 I suggest you educate yourself about the growth of sub only competitions. Lay and pray for a win is not worth anyone's time.
dominate performance
reff looks like a buff steve buscemi haha
At least B-team has one victory 😅 B for a reason 🙃
Maybe there were hiding their a game for the upcoming adcc🤷🏻♂️
@@Endolean I mean maybe fam 🤔 the two top dogs lost tho
this whole card was the biggest snooze fest ive seen in awhile
Secret Jiu Jitsu Club!!! 🤐
Is it me or did the announcer sounded like the late great Mean Gene Okerlund?
Grappling is great on a mat but on the street on concrete? Probably not very comfortable and in guard leaves head open for stomps by friends.
Yeah I agree. In prison we used to fight out our personal problems with someone we had a problem with. So we didn't get the yard locked down we fought in a cell far from the guard shack. Concrete and steel bunks and steel toilets and cramped space didn't make well for grappling and submissions. I saw a bjj guy seriously get hurt by getting his head smashed against the thing steel edge of a bunk. Not effective in prison.
Absolutely true. Training wrestling & BJJ for barroom type engagements is fine, but some standing boxing/kickboxing skills will serve you well. Nearly every guy has a friend in a bar that could easily end your night with a kick to your head in any position.
how can you have submission only with a time limit. let them go for 24 hours
Wtf is that font?
Submission only is decision only.
Points should be deducted automatically for anyone that voluntarily sits on their butt
Should’ve had no time limit
Wrestler dominated again. These jiu-jitsu guys need to watch rickson gracie not Royce they lay on their back too much. At least this guy was able to try a few submissions
If that brown belt really weighs 10 pounds they made need to see a doctor
😂 10p for 10th planet jj system I think
@@amhawk8742 i know that dude
But the wrestler has a purple belt in bjj. So he's a bjj fighter
Scoring systems discount defense.
Side control doesn't mean anything.
Countless bottom sweeps available.
No skill in just lying on top. Do a move.
Bet on wrestler, bet against tattoos bet again stupid hair and bet against 10 planet.
I agree w everything except the 10th planet part. Lots of amazing 10p grapplers coming up
By stupid, do you mean the red streak? If so, then by that you'd bet against Sakuraba in a grappling match?
Sub only but time limit is not sub only.
havent watched yet. just taking a guess, JJ wins
Seems like all you see anymore is leg locks. I get why but still... :/
You can really tell the ignorance of wrestling by the commentators
21 minutes of nothing. Sub wrestling is boring to watch.
I wish i saw this comment 20 minutes ago lmao
Try watching Quintet competitions
No points, no penalty, all stalling.
7:05 looks like an intentional elbow to the face imo
Stay out of combat sports
@@Texasbonez817k tough guy
More like a forearm hit.
I mean honestly dude this shit happens daily I know you don’t train It’s just part of it
Rubber guard doesn't work with italians lol
Silly, should be a draw. Submit or don't.
wow is that ever boring
Pulling guard is just lame. Its a fight, you have to engage, sitting down is a straight bore show. What if both guys just scooted around on their butts like old ladies? The take down is the fun part. Sumo rules with emphasis on take down.
This is a grappling match, not a fight.
Draw. It's a sub only match.
Italians do it better. :)
BJJ fighter brown belt doesn't know to do anything on his feet then proceeds to butt scooch, meh, that should be punished as usual BJJ players only fight tournaments that benefit their stupid moves.
Pathetic performance of the BJJ fighter.
10th planet is trash
@Vystopian sub only is a stupid rule set. Flop around on the bottom and you’re getting killed in a fight. 10th planet is trash and sub only is silly.
@Vystopian 10th Planet sacks
@@vids595 EBI is trash too.
White dude didn’t do anything other than making the match extremely boring. He didn’t attack once.
boring
What a boring match
That was embarrassing. A brown belt should never be dominated by someone who just recently earned their purple belt. That should not even be possible.
Seen it many many times. A stronger athlete can nullify attacks. Granted he can't finish you off but you can't finish him off in just 15 minutes especially if he is an A level player is a closely related discipline.
What you on about, strong athletic white belt can become competitive with brown belts in a year if physically gifted happens all the time
Disgraceful performance by the 10thPlanet representative. Should turn in his brown belt for a blue lol
No, he should throw the belts away and the up real wrestling instead.
lol grappling will never be a real sport
Was that a joke or?
Go to your local bjj gym and say that to a professor. See what kind of response you get.
@@SlapwillMotivate I think people forget grappling entails wrestling lol like people only say grappling when referring to submissions now like it’s not a whole umbrella term
@@SlapwillMotivate he’d throw up on the mat don’t encourage that
@@SlapwillMotivate That's like saying go to a flat earther conference and tell them the earth is round. Of course it's a real sport. I think he means sub only will never be marketable. IMO wrestling and boxing rule sets reward things that matter more in most fights, establishing dominant position on a hard surface and strikes, not to mention pushing the pace.