You are right millstap! I got the raw vintage tremolo springs on my strat (I bought them after you mentioned them in one of your earlier vids). Thumbs up from me. I use all 5 springs with the trem flush to the body ( i like a floating trem but I prefer the trem flat to the body). No tightness at all! Great product. Thank you for the advice! You are like a treasure trove for info ✌
I was glad I got to get the real experience of the difference. I was somewhat shocked. I don't know what that groove does but it just makes the strings bend better for some reason. It's crazy. And the added sustain. They can't be beat.
Thanks again for your help, recommendations and all the messages answered ! Put the highwoods with the smallest spacing (10,5mm I think) on my American Original 60s Strat equipped with an ABM 5050 and got far better results immediately. They are far more resistant to developing multiple grooves/notches and seem to hold the nut sauce even better (you use lithium grease ?). They are said to be softer than the callahams, but I heard no difference in comparison to the ABMs at least. Right now I got my trem floating and backed the 6 baseplate screws of a just a hair (exactly like you did in your last video) so the Trem won't tilt along screw axis in a lateral movement but still got its full range for diving and pulling up. I floated according to Fender spec, so a tad more than you do. I will leave it like this till I master Riviera Paradise and Lenny (or at least can play them halfway decent) ,but eventually I will return to decking. Always having to block the trem with the right hand when doing double stop or unisono bends makes it tense up and become cramped. Now I am tempted to try out the Wudtone bridge. It comes stock with Highwoods and has recessed spaces for the screw heads on top of the plate, so the baseplate doesn't shift along the screw axis. I don't think it matters as much as the strings getting hung up on the saddles and in the nut, but my ABM already shows significant wear at the six screw holes. It has a convenient string spacing right between narrow and vintage and they offer a vintage variant that isn't as bright sounding. What is your favorite bridgeplate apart from vintage fender ? Have a nice day and keep up the videos ! Johannes
Johannes, I use a clear Teflon grease called Super Lube. Works great and is non-staining and food grade. I agree on the multiple grooves. Those drove me crazy on new, hard chrome saddles. The strings would just slide around on top every time I bent a string hard. On bridge plates, I have yet to find a good vintage replacement. So, for now, I'm okay with a standard Fender plate or a Gotoh plate. I don't like the Callaham plates because they are super hard which makes them tinky sounding and he modified ever feature of the plate by putting bigger screw hole bevel, a very sharp knife edge on the six mounting holes, just unnecessary stuff. If you put a complete Callaham tremolo assembly on a vintage Strat, it will sound way too bright. Very shrill to the ears. It's surprising that even when you get the slight lateral movement along the screw axis, the guitar still stays in tune so I don't worry too much about it, but yes having those six screw head as close to the plate as possible, helps. I have asked Mark Foley if he makes vintage correct plates but he never answers me. I will ask again.
great info, I can't tell you how much I love Highwood saddles. Thanks for showing us that ZOOM camera also, I have an older model ZOOM Q2. Thanks for all you do!
Yes, my guitar is sounding better than ever. Even the new Lollar neck pickup made it sound better since I damaged the vintage one. I just got my SD card yesterday for the Zoom so I am starting the learning curve today. Hopefully it works out for these videos.
In both Fender and Gibson when shooting metallic paints, if they got a run or blemish, they would shoot it over and over until they got it right. I've seen Strats and Les Paul Gold tops with several layers.
That makes sense because the more I look at it, the more factory it looks, not a factory refin. Or I guess you could say it was refinished a few times at the factory while it was there.
Raw Vintage springs are just springs with a low spring constant (stiffness). Such springs can be found from a number of trem spring vendors that sell springs with different constants, with descriptors like "soft", "medium" and "strong". "Soft" springs are those with the low spring constant. And spring constants are additive. So if for example your current springs are of the more common, modern, "medium" spring constants, you can achieve the same effect as replacing with lower spring constant springs by simply reducing the number of springs you already have. So you're not "forced" to get RV springs because the claw screws are all the way out - you just remove one or two springs. Then it's down to the torque from the sTrings that determines how far you have to screw the claw in (how much tension you need from those springs), to balance the string torque at the floating position.
I forgot to mention that I will always run 5 springs for a more solid connection between the block, spring claw and body. It also makes it easy to stay in tune on double string bends which I do constantly. I never have an issue with the other string going noticeably flat. Who makes those multiple tension springs? I’ve looked many times but have never seen them.
@@millstap You can of course use as many springs as you desire. But it helps to understand the physics, so you know how more or fewer springs actually aids and impedes what you want to achieve ... or makes no difference. There is nothing intrinsically more "solid" about 5 springs. It's all down to how stiff the total number of springs are - that is, what their spring constants are (measuring spring constants is a common high school science experiment). You can have 5 low-stiffness springs or fewer medium- or high-stiffness springs, with the same total stiffness. Put them on a trem, and then the trem's stiffness is how much force the trem resists any attempt to move the bridge with (whether that attempt comes from moving the arm or double-bending the strings). Overall trem stiffness is the combination of the stiffness of the sTrings and the stiffness of the sPrings. Let's assume you're not going to change your string gauges, so it's the springs where you can exert most control over trem stiffness to get the feel you want. But first of course you have to balance the trem at the floating angle you desire. That involves screwing the claw in far enough to generate enough spring tension to generate a torque that exactly balances the strings' torque at that float angle. The total tension of all the springs, necessary to balance a given set of strings, will always be exactly the same regardless of how many springs you have, or their stiffness. You found that the stretch of your 5 existing springs could not be loosened enough to get tension down to that necessary for that floating angle before the claw screws fell out - because the total stiffness of 5 springs was too stiff. If you removed 1 spring of your 5 (same-type) springs, you would reduce the stiffness by 20% (since spring constants are additive). And you should then have been able to set the claw, because less stiff springs need to be stretched more (claw screwed in further) to get to the same spring tension (necessary to balance the strings at the float angle). By instead ordering 5 less-stiff springs (RV), you're just achieving the same physics in a less-precise way, with individually less-stiff springs. But you don't know exactly how less stiff they are, because whoever you got your current springs from didn't tell you their spring constant; and RV aren't telling you their spring constant either. So you're exchanging the physics of knowing exactly how much you reduced spring stiffness by (20% if you remove 1 in 5 springs), to the lottery of how much the RV springs' stiffness might differ from your current springs' stiffness. Even if you eventually get 5 RV springs set so the bridge is floating, the end result stiffness-wise won't be appreciably different to 4 of your existing springs. The only "physics" or "feel" reason to change springs is if you have 5 springs and they don't feel stiff enough - get 5 stiffer springs. Otherwise, if you have say the typical 3-5 springs, then everything else that you might want to achieve - either a stiffer or less stiff feel - is achievable by either adding springs of the SAME type to increase stiffness, or subtracting springs to reduce it. In short, there is almost never a reason why new springs of a different type are EVER required. Any possible tonal difference when playing the guitar - if it can be objectively demonstrated (that is, where all else is truly equal) - would be due to a given set of springs having a particular tension in EACH spring; thus each would have a resonant frequency just like the strings do at a given tension. When the played strings happen to be vibrating at the same frequency as the springs' resonant frequency, then those string vibration frequencies would be subtracted from the strings (so not seen by the pickups), in order to excite the springs to vibrate. That subtraction has been objectively measured as part of the strat's characteristic tonal palette (Zollner). But any objective tonal differences between different springs has not been investigated as far as I know. By the way, your "connection to the body" notion contravenes the Conservation of Energy Law - you don't want vibrations going into the body. Companies selling strat trem springs with different stiffnesses include GFS, Fu-Tone, and WD Music. Unfortunately like Fender and RV, they don't specify their spring constants (which would be known by the company who actually makes the spring). But at least they use descriptors like "soft", "medium", and "hard" (although they sometimes mistakenly refer to those as tensions, which they're not - they're stiffnesses).
thanks bud, making some upgrades and started following this route as well, its nice to confirm ol' Millstap is using the same parts! Say -can you point me in the direction of what treble bleed cap and resistor you would purchase for the correct 60s Hendrix Values, nothing I'm seeing right now is matching up quite right. Let me know what you like, thanks!
I have never tried a treble bleed circuit but if I did, I think I would try the Kingtone Classic switch, www.kingtoneguitar.com/product/king-tone-switch/. That switch gives a bunch of options. They have a SRV version but I don't think you can bypass the circuit on that one. I can't remember but there is something on the SRV that didn't suit my needs.
@@millstap I ended up just upgrading the capacitor to .1 UF ‘phone book’ from Mojotone, for a early 60s spec cap. Have been intrigued by that Kingtone switch as well!
Dear millstep, grinding the saddles smaller won't ever fix the strings coming closer together as the spacing of a vintage tremolo is the widest and is what it is. Only a new tremolo with smaller saddles spaced closer together will get you there. There are tremolos out there (Callaham offers these) who have the six pivot screws spaced vintage wide, but do have the smaller 10.5 mm width saddles - said tremolo will fit / mount perfectly on your sixties Strat with the strings being closer together.
Well, it doesn’t buy me much space, but I have the 10.8mm saddles on my other Strats so I know it helps just enough. With the minute spaces between each saddle, it gives me just enough room to squeeze the E’s in a little and they stay there because of the downward pressure from the strings. Not ideal but it keeps them from slipping off. I didn’t have any issues with this red Strat with the 11.2mm and even the Highwood website steers you to the 11.2mm for vintage style Strats but all of my vintage saddles are just a hair larger than 10.8mm.
Yes, which are hard to find nowadays. I've gone the roasted maple route recently and am waiting on a custom neck from Musikraft. The roasting process hardens and lightens the wood. I'm hoping it gives it "old wood" characteristics. I will do a review on it to see if it makes any different. They also roast bodies (Warmoth). I hear it is very hard to drill though and it cracks easily so I'm a little nervous about installing the hardware.
I'm building a couple strats. What's the best sounding modern day tremolo? WUDTONE makes a really promising vintage style that looks great. + Raw Vintage Springs and Your Recommended Saddles... I guess I just don't know what BLOCK is the best?
Yeah, I've been checking out the WUDTONE as well, but their vintage version from one bent piece. I dig that it comes stock as an option with Highwoods and that you can choose a spacing that's between vintage and modern string spacing. Think I'll have to pull the trigger on one.
Where I live in the world, its difficult to find those Raw Vintage brand springs(even online), but I have found vintage springs that come in either, weak, medium or stiff, I plan on trying a set of the weak ones to see if that makes a difference. Have you ever tried weak springs that are not Raw Vintage?
I have not. I just heard about different springs tensions but the only ones I could find are the Floyd Rose springs that are color coded depending on stiffness. The Raw Vintage springs just fill that niche perfectly so there is no reason to look around. I would still look around for them. I would be hesitant to get other springs because the dimensions like length, wire diameter, etc. all make a difference and they may not fit well on a Fender Strat. Let me know how they work out.
@@millstap ok will do, & I will keep looking for the Raw Vintage as well, someone will have them eventually. I'm based in Asia & there's no shortage of cheap Chinese gear, on the other hand, brands such as Callahan, Warmoth, Stew Mac & other quality accessories aren't the easiest to find. Thanks again, all the best!
I've just checked again and as I suspected I still don't believe there are any sound clips or videos on the internet comparing Highwood saddles to the original vintage style. I feel like if you were able to invest some time to show some before and after sounds using the same guitar with both it could be invaluable to potentially thousands of guitarists both now and in the future when people are looking for this, it would also illustrate the points you've made much better than any amount of words or descriptions could, and I'd imagine it would be a popular video too
But to do that correctly one must use new strings sets on both (!) the Fender saddles as well on the Highwood saddles. Otherwise one set saddles will receive already broken in strings which would not be a correct test. Hope you understand what I am saying.
You are right millstap! I got the raw vintage tremolo springs on my strat (I bought them after you mentioned them in one of your earlier vids). Thumbs up from me. I use all 5 springs with the trem flush to the body ( i like a floating trem but I prefer the trem flat to the body). No tightness at all! Great product. Thank you for the advice!
You are like a treasure trove for info ✌
Good to see you again, I'm really looking forward to Villa-Nova Junction!!!!
Me too
Your videos of saddles and springs are pure gold, keep them up. Cheers and happy week!
Great video Millstap the high wood saddles are great I bought a set of them when you first did a video on them they can’t be beat in my opinion.
I was glad I got to get the real experience of the difference. I was somewhat shocked. I don't know what that groove does but it just makes the strings bend better for some reason. It's crazy. And the added sustain. They can't be beat.
Your videos are fantastic !!
Just got the Highwood saddles. I will never go back.
Yes, I hardly break strings anymore and the tremolo stays in perfect tune. They are pretty cool for sure.
Nice, glad to see you are doing well sir !!
Thanks again for your help, recommendations and all the messages answered ! Put the highwoods with the smallest spacing (10,5mm I think) on my American Original 60s Strat equipped with an ABM 5050 and got far better results immediately. They are far more resistant to developing multiple grooves/notches and seem to hold the nut sauce even better (you use lithium grease ?). They are said to be softer than the callahams, but I heard no difference in comparison to the ABMs at least. Right now I got my trem floating and backed the 6 baseplate screws of a just a hair (exactly like you did in your last video) so the Trem won't tilt along screw axis in a lateral movement but still got its full range for diving and pulling up. I floated according to Fender spec, so a tad more than you do. I will leave it like this till I master Riviera Paradise and Lenny (or at least can play them halfway decent) ,but eventually I will return to decking. Always having to block the trem with the right hand when doing double stop or unisono bends makes it tense up and become cramped. Now I am tempted to try out the Wudtone bridge. It comes stock with Highwoods and has recessed spaces for the screw heads on top of the plate, so the baseplate doesn't shift along the screw axis. I don't think it matters as much as the strings getting hung up on the saddles and in the nut, but my ABM already shows significant wear at the six screw holes. It has a convenient string spacing right between narrow and vintage and they offer a vintage variant that isn't as bright sounding. What is your favorite bridgeplate apart from vintage fender ?
Have a nice day and keep up the videos !
Johannes
Johannes, I use a clear Teflon grease called Super Lube. Works great and is non-staining and food grade. I agree on the multiple grooves. Those drove me crazy on new, hard chrome saddles. The strings would just slide around on top every time I bent a string hard. On bridge plates, I have yet to find a good vintage replacement. So, for now, I'm okay with a standard Fender plate or a Gotoh plate. I don't like the Callaham plates because they are super hard which makes them tinky sounding and he modified ever feature of the plate by putting bigger screw hole bevel, a very sharp knife edge on the six mounting holes, just unnecessary stuff. If you put a complete Callaham tremolo assembly on a vintage Strat, it will sound way too bright. Very shrill to the ears. It's surprising that even when you get the slight lateral movement along the screw axis, the guitar still stays in tune so I don't worry too much about it, but yes having those six screw head as close to the plate as possible, helps. I have asked Mark Foley if he makes vintage correct plates but he never answers me. I will ask again.
My high E string winds up in the screw hole.
I have the Highwoods on my Supervee Bladerunner bridge and it’s a world of change.
great info, I can't tell you how much I love Highwood saddles. Thanks for showing us that ZOOM camera also, I have an older model ZOOM Q2. Thanks for all you do!
Yes, my guitar is sounding better than ever. Even the new Lollar neck pickup made it sound better since I damaged the vintage one. I just got my SD card yesterday for the Zoom so I am starting the learning curve today. Hopefully it works out for these videos.
@@millstap great! Love Lollar pickups too. Who do you send pickups off to for repair? I have some 70s Stratocaster pickups that need some love. Thanks
@@marksguitars5617 I send them to Aaron at Rumpelstiltskin, www.rumpelstiltskinpickups.com
@@millstap thank you!
If you love it so much maybe a tattoo
Thank you again my brother keep on rocking 🎸👍🏻
Right my friend, I will try, thanks for doing video like that's.
Great stuff, thanks
Did you ever try a Wudtone constant pivot bridge? I have a feeling you’d love it.
In both Fender and Gibson when shooting metallic paints, if they got a run or blemish, they would shoot it over and over until they got it right. I've seen Strats and Les Paul Gold tops with several layers.
That makes sense because the more I look at it, the more factory it looks, not a factory refin. Or I guess you could say it was refinished a few times at the factory while it was there.
Raw Vintage springs are just springs with a low spring constant (stiffness). Such springs can be found from a number of trem spring vendors that sell springs with different constants, with descriptors like "soft", "medium" and "strong". "Soft" springs are those with the low spring constant. And spring constants are additive. So if for example your current springs are of the more common, modern, "medium" spring constants, you can achieve the same effect as replacing with lower spring constant springs by simply reducing the number of springs you already have. So you're not "forced" to get RV springs because the claw screws are all the way out - you just remove one or two springs. Then it's down to the torque from the sTrings that determines how far you have to screw the claw in (how much tension you need from those springs), to balance the string torque at the floating position.
I forgot to mention that I will always run 5 springs for a more solid connection between the block, spring claw and body. It also makes it easy to stay in tune on double string bends which I do constantly. I never have an issue with the other string going noticeably flat. Who makes those multiple tension springs? I’ve looked many times but have never seen them.
@@millstap You can of course use as many springs as you desire. But it helps to understand the physics, so you know how more or fewer springs actually aids and impedes what you want to achieve ... or makes no difference. There is nothing intrinsically more "solid" about 5 springs. It's all down to how stiff the total number of springs are - that is, what their spring constants are (measuring spring constants is a common high school science experiment). You can have 5 low-stiffness springs or fewer medium- or high-stiffness springs, with the same total stiffness. Put them on a trem, and then the trem's stiffness is how much force the trem resists any attempt to move the bridge with (whether that attempt comes from moving the arm or double-bending the strings). Overall trem stiffness is the combination of the stiffness of the sTrings and the stiffness of the sPrings. Let's assume you're not going to change your string gauges, so it's the springs where you can exert most control over trem stiffness to get the feel you want. But first of course you have to balance the trem at the floating angle you desire. That involves screwing the claw in far enough to generate enough spring tension to generate a torque that exactly balances the strings' torque at that float angle. The total tension of all the springs, necessary to balance a given set of strings, will always be exactly the same regardless of how many springs you have, or their stiffness. You found that the stretch of your 5 existing springs could not be loosened enough to get tension down to that necessary for that floating angle before the claw screws fell out - because the total stiffness of 5 springs was too stiff. If you removed 1 spring of your 5 (same-type) springs, you would reduce the stiffness by 20% (since spring constants are additive). And you should then have been able to set the claw, because less stiff springs need to be stretched more (claw screwed in further) to get to the same spring tension (necessary to balance the strings at the float angle). By instead ordering 5 less-stiff springs (RV), you're just achieving the same physics in a less-precise way, with individually less-stiff springs. But you don't know exactly how less stiff they are, because whoever you got your current springs from didn't tell you their spring constant; and RV aren't telling you their spring constant either. So you're exchanging the physics of knowing exactly how much you reduced spring stiffness by (20% if you remove 1 in 5 springs), to the lottery of how much the RV springs' stiffness might differ from your current springs' stiffness. Even if you eventually get 5 RV springs set so the bridge is floating, the end result stiffness-wise won't be appreciably different to 4 of your existing springs.
The only "physics" or "feel" reason to change springs is if you have 5 springs and they don't feel stiff enough - get 5 stiffer springs. Otherwise, if you have say the typical 3-5 springs, then everything else that you might want to achieve - either a stiffer or less stiff feel - is achievable by either adding springs of the SAME type to increase stiffness, or subtracting springs to reduce it. In short, there is almost never a reason why new springs of a different type are EVER required.
Any possible tonal difference when playing the guitar - if it can be objectively demonstrated (that is, where all else is truly equal) - would be due to a given set of springs having a particular tension in EACH spring; thus each would have a resonant frequency just like the strings do at a given tension. When the played strings happen to be vibrating at the same frequency as the springs' resonant frequency, then those string vibration frequencies would be subtracted from the strings (so not seen by the pickups), in order to excite the springs to vibrate. That subtraction has been objectively measured as part of the strat's characteristic tonal palette (Zollner). But any objective tonal differences between different springs has not been investigated as far as I know. By the way, your "connection to the body" notion contravenes the Conservation of Energy Law - you don't want vibrations going into the body.
Companies selling strat trem springs with different stiffnesses include GFS, Fu-Tone, and WD Music. Unfortunately like Fender and RV, they don't specify their spring constants (which would be known by the company who actually makes the spring). But at least they use descriptors like "soft", "medium", and "hard" (although they sometimes mistakenly refer to those as tensions, which they're not - they're stiffnesses).
Why can't we get these True Vintage Tremolo Springs in Canada ?
thanks bud, making some upgrades and started following this route as well, its nice to confirm ol' Millstap is using the same parts! Say -can you point me in the direction of what treble bleed cap and resistor you would purchase for the correct 60s Hendrix Values, nothing I'm seeing right now is matching up quite right. Let me know what you like, thanks!
I have never tried a treble bleed circuit but if I did, I think I would try the Kingtone Classic switch, www.kingtoneguitar.com/product/king-tone-switch/. That switch gives a bunch of options. They have a SRV version but I don't think you can bypass the circuit on that one. I can't remember but there is something on the SRV that didn't suit my needs.
@@millstap I ended up just upgrading the capacitor to .1 UF ‘phone book’ from Mojotone, for a early 60s spec cap.
Have been intrigued by that Kingtone switch as well!
Dear millstep, grinding the saddles smaller won't ever fix the strings coming closer together as the spacing of a vintage tremolo is the widest and is what it is. Only a new tremolo with smaller saddles spaced closer together will get you there. There are tremolos out there (Callaham offers these) who have the six pivot screws spaced vintage wide, but do have the smaller 10.5 mm width saddles - said tremolo will fit / mount perfectly on your sixties Strat with the strings being closer together.
Well, it doesn’t buy me much space, but I have the 10.8mm saddles on my other Strats so I know it helps just enough. With the minute spaces between each saddle, it gives me just enough room to squeeze the E’s in a little and they stay there because of the downward pressure from the strings. Not ideal but it keeps them from slipping off. I didn’t have any issues with this red Strat with the 11.2mm and even the Highwood website steers you to the 11.2mm for vintage style Strats but all of my vintage saddles are just a hair larger than 10.8mm.
The biggest factor is good pieces of wood imo
Yes, which are hard to find nowadays. I've gone the roasted maple route recently and am waiting on a custom neck from Musikraft. The roasting process hardens and lightens the wood. I'm hoping it gives it "old wood" characteristics. I will do a review on it to see if it makes any different. They also roast bodies (Warmoth). I hear it is very hard to drill though and it cracks easily so I'm a little nervous about installing the hardware.
I'm building a couple strats. What's the best sounding modern day tremolo?
WUDTONE makes a really promising vintage style that looks great.
+ Raw Vintage Springs and Your Recommended Saddles...
I guess I just don't know what BLOCK is the best?
Yeah, I've been checking out the WUDTONE as well, but their vintage version from one bent piece. I dig that it comes stock as an option with Highwoods and that you can choose a spacing that's between vintage and modern string spacing. Think I'll have to pull the trigger on one.
@@josefeld7164 they put hightone saddles on their bridges???
@@levijessegonzalez3629 yes, you can choose Highwoods as an option as far as I know.
@@levijessegonzalez3629 just looked it up, says Highwood.
Where I live in the world, its difficult to find those Raw Vintage brand springs(even online), but I have found vintage springs that come in either, weak, medium or stiff, I plan on trying a set of the weak ones to see if that makes a difference. Have you ever tried weak springs that are not Raw Vintage?
I have not. I just heard about different springs tensions but the only ones I could find are the Floyd Rose springs that are color coded depending on stiffness. The Raw Vintage springs just fill that niche perfectly so there is no reason to look around. I would still look around for them. I would be hesitant to get other springs because the dimensions like length, wire diameter, etc. all make a difference and they may not fit well on a Fender Strat. Let me know how they work out.
@@millstap ok will do, & I will keep looking for the Raw Vintage as well, someone will have them eventually. I'm based in Asia & there's no shortage of cheap Chinese gear, on the other hand, brands such as Callahan, Warmoth, Stew Mac & other quality accessories aren't the easiest to find. Thanks again, all the best!
have you ever used a 2 point Tremolo that sounded good?
Nickel or chrome Highwoods?
I've just checked again and as I suspected I still don't believe there are any sound clips or videos on the internet comparing Highwood saddles to the original vintage style. I feel like if you were able to invest some time to show some before and after sounds using the same guitar with both it could be invaluable to potentially thousands of guitarists both now and in the future when people are looking for this, it would also illustrate the points you've made much better than any amount of words or descriptions could, and I'd imagine it would be a popular video too
But to do that correctly one must use new strings sets on both (!) the Fender saddles as well on the Highwood saddles. Otherwise one set saddles will receive already broken in strings which would not be a correct test. Hope you understand what I am saying.