Chapters - 0:00 - Introduction 0:58 - India's EV journey 5:15 - Are EVs really green? 8:36 - Early adopters 9:50 - Price 10:11 - Range issues 10:23 - Ideal for city use 12:25 - Charging 14:02 - Highway use 15:04 - Enough range 16:20 - Charging infrastructure 19:00 - EV reliability 20:05 - Resale value 24:07 - Range anxiety 24:36 - Battery life 26:21 - Battery fires 27:56 - NMC vs LFP 28:59 - Home charging is big issue 29:22 - Personal pick of EV 30:35 - EV sportscars 33:16 - EVs in India 43:46 - Upcoming electric cars
Have been an owner of the TIAGO EV for about a year. Best Decision I made 1. Needed a city commuter to do 50 kms every day. (ONLY car in family) 2. Will keep it for 10 yrs at least ( not bothered about resale value). Save around a LAKH on fuel in a year. Will recover the vehicle's entire amount in 10 years. 3. Love the Gearless drive, super refined silent stressfree ride. 4. Love the predictable range. 5. Planning for a 2nd Outstation trip as I realised that you don't have to spend on FUEL..!!! And my next car will definitely ALSO be an EV... "Dunia Jayee Tel Lene" (Literally).
Hormazd is really very knowledgeable. All these years of experience speaks a lot of things. No one else in the industry has such perspective on the Indian automotive market. Really amazing series this - deep drive. Keep going
I was in Jodhpur tata service centre a few hours ago to service my hexa. EVs & tata have a long way to go. There was no customer who wasn't upset with the car. So many EVs and all of them have issues like not charging or stalling or not accelerating. Autocar should also do a true survey and brand reliability test
My predictions for the year 2030 - EV scooters will have 50% market share - EV cars will have a market share of about 10% - EV 3 wheeler will be 90-95% of total wales - most metro cities will have a large Electric Bus fleet
I never thought I d buy an EV considering I ve always loved the classic internal combustion engine per se. However, late last year I re acquainted myself with EVs by test driving all of them. And Ultimately I settled on the Hyundai Kona because with the various discounts on offer, coupled with the fact that it is an end of lifecycle product, it became such a fantastic value for money product, that I could no longer resist. And it is a CKD Hyundai, with the kind of build quality, fit, finish and finesse that one expects from these European cars. I loved its classic understated looks and its performance, including ride comfort and behaviour at higher speeds on highways, lower speeds in the city and everything in between. I appreciate its ground clearance which works perfectly well for Bangalore. And I am so far, happy with its range. Yes I never charge beyond 85% and generally dont let it get below 20%. Within this band, I am able to drive around 250-300Kms. Like one can do a Bangalore - Mysore - Bangalore and one may need only a 20 minute “top up” in Mysore to achieve that. The interesting thing is when I drive my EV, my whole demeanour and driving style totally changes. I enjoy its acceleration, but. above all I soak myself in its silence and the sound of music in the car. Also, for your information, the performance is extremely exhilarating though maybe not quite as teeth blistering as the AWD Kia EV6. But thats fine! Another interesting thing is that one never feels the urge to fill it up full as one would, with a petrol or diesel car. One uses it, charges it a bit, increases the range and keeps going. And one times ones stops neatly along with some food or shopping and charges as needed. Overall, I am not getting into all this virtue signalling and all that, because I still love my Petrol cars, but I am simply using my EV as an alternative fuelled vehicle. It is a totally different experience and I am enjoying it a lot. Not to forget, the effective cost - if one does about 800 or 1000 kms a month, in a petrol car one may spend about 10000 to 12000 Rupees worth of Petrol. (My earlier car the Mahindra Thar for example was quite an inveterate drinker in that sense.) By contrast in this EV, one can drive the same distance as mentioned above and one honestly wont end up spending more than 20% of the above mentioned costs! Dont debunk EV’s until you have tried one. That’s my sincere take-out.
You’d be hard pressed to find a single EV owner in this thread who is bad mouthing ev’s All of them are ppl who have never tried EV and just go by societal stereotypes
9:00 it is not EV sales that is slowing, it is sales growth which is slowing. If a brand sells 50 cars in 2021 and 100 cars in 2022, thats 100% sales growth But if in 2023, same brand sells 150 cars, thats just 50% sales growth. Then if you sell 200 cars in 2024, thats even lesser at 33% growth. Mind you, the brand is consistently selling 50 more units every year than last year, but sales growth is still slowing. This is inevitable in the uptake of any tech. 9:35 there was an autocar professional feature itself on tata EV sales which concluded that 50% tata EV customers are first time buyers and living in tier 2/3 cities, so I think this claim is unbacked, purely anecdotal. For luxury market where say, a potential i4 or EQS buyer already has a dozen other cars in their garage, this may hold true, but not for most of the people, especially those who are not car enthusiasts and are not engaging on car related discussions on the internet 11:25 it wont be wrong to say that most cars themselves are a city phenomenon, when you see NHAI data, only about 6million vehicles pass tolls daily all over india, ie including trucks and bus and other commercial vehicles. Even if 50% of the total was pvt cars, it would be 3 million or just 1% of the 300million strong car fleet. We as enthusiasts maybe into road trips and long drives, but truth is, cars are a rarity itself, at around 3 cars per 100 people. Then, it is not like air travel and AC rail travel is costly, for most middle class, train is still staple mode of transport for long distance, especially since if you have a joint family and a small car, it is not possible to carry everyone 500km away WITH luggage, for a week long marriage ceremony. The upper middle class is using flights a lot, thanks to air miles on credit cards and whatnot. It is important to take a step back and see the bigger picture about city vs highway usage of cars in general, not just EV itself. Most people don't even break 10K km per year on their ICE cars because they only drive in city.
Kia's EV3 if launched at a reasonable price in India will be a game changer for the mass market. The best and value for money product as of now in the Indian market is Ioniq 5 an EV6.
One point to add here is that India is now adding more renewable power than we are adding EVs, so one can argue that the new EVs are using newer renewable power! EVs can be a mainstream use for all city driving. Only for people who want to drive 1000kms a day can’t use an EV. EV adoption will have to take place from grassroots level: start at two wheelers - scooters and bikes, three wheelers - autorickshaws, and next for sun 1 ton mini trucks - Tata Ace class vehicles. Next up should be city buses with swappable batteries. Next step will be LCV trucks up to 6tons capacity. Lastly it will be passengers cars and long distance busses and trucks. The reason I say this is because only a few early adopters will jump into EV passenger cars, the rest will wait out.
Gist - This is a podcast episode about electric vehicles (EVs) in India. Here are the key points: * The Indian government is offering subsidies and tax breaks to promote EVs. * Tata Motors is the leading manufacturer of EVs in India. * Early adopters of EVs are happy with the experience, especially in cities where they can charge at home. * Range anxiety (fear of running out of battery) is a concern for some people, especially for long trips. * The public charging infrastructure for EVs in India is still not very developed. * The resale value of EVs is uncertain. * Battery life is a concern for some people, but batteries are warrantied for 8-10 years and degradation is gradual. * Battery fires are a rare occurrence, and EVs are no more likely to catch fire than gasoline vehicles. * There is a debate about the type of battery chemistry that is best for EVs: NMC batteries have a higher energy density but are more likely to overheat, while LFP batteries are less energy-dense but more stable. The conclusion is that EVs are a good option for city cars, but there are still some challenges that need to be addressed before they can become mainstream in India.
Thanks for the detailed conversation. You guys skipped battery degradation over the year. Even before 8 years it is going down. EVs are not for me. I don't have much money like you guys, and I have only one car.
My MG ZS EV will be 2 years old in July which also completed 25k km. So far no issues at all, no battery degradation, I have done multiple long distance trips where I used public charger. Drive is smooth and silent. So if you dont need to travel on highway very often but drive a lot in city range just go for EV.
I'm using tiago ev for my daily usage of about 130kms...14mths in and it's already clocked in 33k kms.... planning to buy a strong hybrid for longer journeys...hyryder or honda city(hybrid)??...your suggestion please
Maruti delayed the launch for too long, claiming a 2-door wouldn't work in India, and Mahindra Thar used that gap to its advantage. But honestly, every brand needs an iconic product that defines them. It doesn't have to be a mass seller but should be there to show people they're passionate about what they do. The Jimny is that vehicle for Maruti in India, and having it in their lineup will reflect positively on their other vehicles as well.
I had a Reva EV 15 years ago and with a range of 80 kms. It was sufficient for me in all city use. I had charging points at my home and at my office. Very limited public charging points back in 2007-10. EVs make perfect sense for City uses.
Im an ev user for 7 months. We have 10kw rooftop solar plant. We have a primary ICE SUV for long travel. We own a TATA Nexon ev for city and under 100 kms drive. Monthly my savings from ev car itself, which i drive for 1000-1200kms, is around 10000 rupees. Bill on household electricity bill 3000-3500 rs, and the money paid from the government as ours is an on-grid solar plant, is around 2000-2500rs. Total savings per month 15000-16500 rs. On top of it, fantastic driving experience.😊 As a second car, for in and around city, with your own rooftop solar, its one of the best investments 😊
Well spent 49 minutes of my time, so much to learn and absorb. Was considering Punch EV or Comet as a 2nd car , now I will wait for Suzuki/ Toyota offerings before i make my decision. Thanks guys!
We’ve been driving a Kia EV6 for over a year and have never had a software issue. It does Bombay Pune return with ease and it is a dream to drive. Also we have found a major saving in fuel.
As per TCO calculations one should only buy and EV if the daily running is long. I read in some report that the added cost of a Nexon EV over and ICE takes ~50-70k kms to recover. And if a person is going only 7-8k kms per buying a ICE still makes sense since it will take 7-8 yrs to recover the cost. At which point people start hunting for a new car.
That price difference has now gone down. Even if you click 20kms daily, EVs will recover (especially if you compare them to automatic version of Nexon)
EVs are getting the raw deal when it comes to their environmental impact. Never did we talk about environment impact of mining iron ore, steel plants etc when it comes to ICE cars, or environmental impact of extracting crude oil or it's refinement etc
I was driving an Activa, after much deliberation, calculations, I bought an EV scooter from a well known brand(not the chinese imported), my running costs are down by a factor of 10! With the running(below average
For me, the EV choice is about convinience, not cost. I dont have the ability to install a home charger (rented apt) and the charging times are very slow even on DC fast chargers. Ideally, the EV charge time should be twice as long as it would take to fill up an ICE car and have a real range of 350-400 kms. I believe this would make more people switch over since all the other important bits are in place already
Love your podcasts. I am loving it. Remembering the decade of the 2000z when Autocar was a pioneer in the media domain. Here is cheers to another pioneering effort
When Hormazd was with Indian Auto/Auto India I remember an article about an EV from Kerala which had a range of 70-90km. But it didn't start commercial production. If i am not wrong, The company was called Eddy Currents
Great podcast guys.. Keep em coming. It was comprehensive. Only info where I was hoping you'd touch upon is about the new EV policy of the government and which all foreign manufacturers are likely to take advantage of it if any, and the price impacts on the current and future products.
We dont have basic charging infra yet, what will people do with SUV ev's? not dissing, just curious as SUV are mainly for city and touring so how does that work? Only Auto podcast i watch and just because Hormazd, what a brilliant guy!
The future is EV only, And my next car will be MG Cloud. MG s are really reliable. My uncles MG ZS is 3 years old and run 30000 kms. No complaints yet, 👍🏻👍🏻
Rightfully pointed out about the resale value and with battery technology still developing. Lithium is a limited source. There are other battery technologies such as Aliminum Air battery or Sodium Ion Battery coming in as well. And charging infrastructure and chargers should be universal. And yes you never know when Lithium batteries will be obsolete 💯🤘🏻. Sodium ion batteries or Aluminum air batteries have much more long range. Companies still working on them.
Very Excited for Baojun / MG Yep once they decide to launch here . With fast charging and small chassis , think it can bridge gap between using it exclusively in city and nearby cities and be cheaper at the same time
EVs in the 2 wheeler segment are just fine. Ather and Ola have got the right formula. But for Cars, ai think we are a long way off. Car ownership will fall, go out of fashion if shared transportation is made available. Look at an apartment complex, more then 50% of cars are never used or used very rarely. There must be some way of making a group of buyers share a limited no of cars.
EV market is slowing down in the US . I know our country is different but US sets the trend across the world and the main reason is not cost, its the anxiety and no resale value
Yes resale is a bomb to explode... In addition to that dose it make even sense to buy it as the upfront cost is significantly higher than a ICE and we don't know what happens to the battery after 8years also kwhat would be the replacement cost? Tooo many questions unanswered...
I feel today EVs are products that are developed and trying to fit in a market. EVs fit well in scooters, autorickshaw, city trucks and intercity buses and hypercars. For rest EVs have to mature for Indian market.
I admire both of you a lot. I love this podcast in particular. I get to learn a lot from what is discussed. All the best to you. Keep up the good work.
Did actually see a Mercedes EV, being towed on a truck, because it ran out of juice, in Ooty. A lot lot more needs to be done on charging infrastructure.
One small ev car for regular city commute only this scenario is where ev succeeds that too if ur driving daily for more than 50kms a day for longer journeys hybrids are way to go one full tank 1000plus kms i would really jate to always plan journey on higheay then wait for an hour to recharge even after planning you end up seeing the charger not working on arrival or some one already logged in
EV are Mobile phone meets Car at each level... EV are the future but Lithium based are not there comes it Resale Value... Resale Value: I am one of them who believes that resale value is very difficult to come by. EV to me is leasing. I am getting on a company lease. Usage: Back in 2019, I use to say EV have made a case of Hyperlocal (15 km radius from your house), today 2024 I am saying it is good city use and you are inching towards Mumbai-Pune but has to be complimented with decent Fast Charging station (1-2).
EVs are failing- Globally. Reasons?: RANGE ANXIETY, RIDICULOUSLY LONG CHARGING TIME, LACK OF INFRASTRUCTURE.(unless there is a breakthrough that reduces the charging time to less than 5 minutes, there is no escape from this). The biggest reason for the downfall of EVs apart from lack of EV infrastructure, range anxiety and long charging time is that EV cars become useless and obsolete after their battery warranty period. It is like buying a use-and-throw gadget. You either pay a ridiculous amount of money to change the battery (You can buy a new car for that money) or put it in a dump yard. On the other hand, ICE cars retain 30 to 50 % of their value even after 8 years. If you buy a reliable ICE car, you can use it for decades. All manufacturers know this and more and more people have started to complain about their experiences about the amount they are being charged to replace dead batteries. No wonder EVs are failing.
As a summary, EV could be great city car but that means daily running would be very limited. This itself is paradoxical to the initial high value you are paying and not so great resale value you are expected to get
Good podcast. But would prefer a deeper conversation discussing data. For instance - residual value comparison data for an ICE/EV, ideal daily trip for an EV to make sense considering the higher upfront cost, fires/failure rates for ICE vs EV etc. Podcast touches a lot of pointe but they don't go deep.
as Hormazd Sorabjee asked why cant there be a guy at the charging station to charge up the vehicle, actually that kind of EV charging station is there on a route to Hyderabad to Vijayawada and its name is Voltron EV charging Station in there simply you go and guy comes up and just charges the vehicle and you charged according to the watts you are charged and there is restaurant in it, and it was so successful that recently there started another four of them in other routes and there have super reviews in google too and also govt electric buses also charge there too with the high capacity(180 watts) chargers there and i think lot of them need to give that kind of service then instead of this stupid app based low chargers on the highways
Despite USA have EV infra in last few quarter there EV sales have declined... I am not bulish about EV however OEMs will try to change ppl behaviour by creating a demand in market
Coal is the main source of energy in india that's why evs are not that much environment friendly. Also lithium extraction emitting more carbon then petrol in short time
I understand the craze for SUVs and manufacturers coming out with tons of them due to fomo. But as a devout sedan lover, can someone explain why nobody wants to make really good sedan evs?
Podcast on strong hybrids and what global models would suit our market. Also just to educate the indian market on strong hybrids, their resale values, milage, battery, range etc
Re : Charging, The Future may be Quick Swap Battery Packs. You go to a bunk 4 guys come in take the old battery packs out (ideally detaches from the sides or boots), in goes the new ones. You Pay and :) go. Imagine them wearing f1 style kit while doing this :)
Evs r built to cost and not built to last . Even in TESLAS Rattling is a common thing… even people inthe well advanced Nations like EU countries & US r hesitating to buy an EV . For majority of Indians car is a long cherished dream and they don’t want to take risks that even Majority of the US & EU people r worried about
Resale Value should be higher for EV compared to normal ICE cars simply because it has more material which can be recycle like copper from all electrical wires, lithium and cobalt etc from battery. and nowadays same value ice car is more tax than car.
Our grid system is not capable to handle 10% EV market share in India. Batteries need to be cheaper, more reliable and provide better range for more adoption.
One line what Hormazd say "EV are one dimensional and no emotions". That will be biggest deterrent for me. Also 90% home dont have parking for more than 1 car, so keeping EV as second vehicle for city is a luxury for most of them. That includes me. For me EV will remain and flourish for 2 wheelers as that makes more sense for many of us.
Two takeaways: EVs make sense only as a city car and when you have another ICE car at home. Secondly, don’t buy an EV if you have resale value in mind.
There are other problems as well. Range reduces significantly in peak summers. 130 km in full charge in Pinch LR EV. Also Dealers service in Tata is some cases are pathetic, they have some con practises. Even Brand Tata doesn’t respond to complaints.
Spending your lacks on a product with so many ifs and buts has never been a wise decision. Buying Ev gives you free anxiety and a person will only realise this when he is with his family and gets stuck somewhere with no immediate help. Pure EVs are not the future.
These cars are great if you dont leave the city and have a home charger,otherwise they become a logistical nightmare. With that said the Tata Tigor EV is the model of the EV people need,its not too flashy ,not too expensive and it thrives in the city. When you have to use hulking monstrosities like the Kia EV9 and ridiculously expensive cars like the Merc EQS to mimic the flexibility of a ICE car you have lost the plot however.
Let's accept, at this point, the electric car can never be one's primary and only car. You could use it for daily short or organized runs, but when it comes to long distance drives, the charging systems doesn't support. I would like owning one just for daily runs. I guess a plug in hybrid with real world range of 60-80km would be the best deal for now
Minimum highway charging should 50kwh so that can get 300 km range in 45 to 60 minutes But we have so many 25 kv and 10kv takes 2 to 3 hours this is too much
Actually I’m staying away from EV vehicles. The strong reason behind is lithium batteries will be superseded soon. New solid state batteries are under way Japan is doing extensive research in coming up with these batteries due to their longer life and much much reliable as these batteries never get fire with over heat as we normally see in present Evs.
Is there a possibility of old cars getting converted into EVs and if so whether they will be accepted by authorities and also will they be worth the cost ?
Chapters -
0:00 - Introduction
0:58 - India's EV journey
5:15 - Are EVs really green?
8:36 - Early adopters
9:50 - Price
10:11 - Range issues
10:23 - Ideal for city use
12:25 - Charging
14:02 - Highway use
15:04 - Enough range
16:20 - Charging infrastructure
19:00 - EV reliability
20:05 - Resale value
24:07 - Range anxiety
24:36 - Battery life
26:21 - Battery fires
27:56 - NMC vs LFP
28:59 - Home charging is big issue
29:22 - Personal pick of EV
30:35 - EV sportscars
33:16 - EVs in India
43:46 - Upcoming electric cars
Have been an owner of the TIAGO EV for about a year. Best Decision I made
1. Needed a city commuter to do 50 kms every day. (ONLY car in family)
2. Will keep it for 10 yrs at least ( not bothered about resale value). Save around a LAKH on fuel in a year. Will recover the vehicle's entire amount in 10 years.
3. Love the Gearless drive, super refined silent stressfree ride.
4. Love the predictable range.
5. Planning for a 2nd Outstation trip as I realised that you don't have to spend on FUEL..!!!
And my next car will definitely ALSO be an EV... "Dunia Jayee Tel Lene" (Literally).
Hormazd is really very knowledgeable. All these years of experience speaks a lot of things. No one else in the industry has such perspective on the Indian automotive market. Really amazing series this - deep drive. Keep going
I was in Jodhpur tata service centre a few hours ago to service my hexa. EVs & tata have a long way to go. There was no customer who wasn't upset with the car. So many EVs and all of them have issues like not charging or stalling or not accelerating. Autocar should also do a true survey and brand reliability test
My predictions for the year 2030
- EV scooters will have 50% market share
- EV cars will have a market share of about 10%
- EV 3 wheeler will be 90-95% of total wales
- most metro cities will have a large Electric Bus fleet
True !!! 👍👍👍
Rightly said. EV's have their own place.
I never thought I d buy an EV considering I ve always loved the classic internal combustion engine per se. However, late last year I re acquainted myself with EVs by test driving all of them. And Ultimately I settled on the Hyundai Kona because with the various discounts on offer, coupled with the fact that it is an end of lifecycle product, it became such a fantastic value for money product, that I could no longer resist. And it is a CKD Hyundai, with the kind of build quality, fit, finish and finesse that one expects from these European cars. I loved its classic understated looks and its performance, including ride comfort and behaviour at higher speeds on highways, lower speeds in the city and everything in between. I appreciate its ground clearance which works perfectly well for Bangalore. And I am so far, happy with its range. Yes I never charge beyond 85% and generally dont let it get below 20%. Within this band, I am able to drive around 250-300Kms. Like one can do a Bangalore - Mysore - Bangalore and one may need only a 20 minute “top up” in Mysore to achieve that. The interesting thing is when I drive my EV, my whole demeanour and driving style totally changes. I enjoy its acceleration, but. above all I soak myself in its silence and the sound of music in the car. Also, for your information, the performance is extremely exhilarating though maybe not quite as teeth blistering as the AWD Kia EV6. But thats fine! Another interesting thing is that one never feels the urge to fill it up full as one would, with a petrol or diesel car. One uses it, charges it a bit, increases the range and keeps going. And one times ones stops neatly along with some food or shopping and charges as needed. Overall, I am not getting into all this virtue signalling and all that, because I still love my Petrol cars, but I am simply using my EV as an alternative fuelled vehicle. It is a totally different experience and I am enjoying it a lot. Not to forget, the effective cost - if one does about 800 or 1000 kms a month, in a petrol car one may spend about 10000 to 12000 Rupees worth of Petrol. (My earlier car the Mahindra Thar for example was quite an inveterate drinker in that sense.) By contrast in this EV, one can drive the same distance as mentioned above and one honestly wont end up spending more than 20% of the above mentioned costs! Dont debunk EV’s until you have tried one. That’s my sincere take-out.
You’d be hard pressed to find a single EV owner in this thread who is bad mouthing ev’s
All of them are ppl who have never tried EV and just go by societal stereotypes
The comments section will be pure gold from folks who never owned or driven an EV!
9:00 it is not EV sales that is slowing, it is sales growth which is slowing.
If a brand sells 50 cars in 2021 and 100 cars in 2022, thats 100% sales growth
But if in 2023, same brand sells 150 cars, thats just 50% sales growth.
Then if you sell 200 cars in 2024, thats even lesser at 33% growth.
Mind you, the brand is consistently selling 50 more units every year than last year, but sales growth is still slowing. This is inevitable in the uptake of any tech.
9:35 there was an autocar professional feature itself on tata EV sales which concluded that 50% tata EV customers are first time buyers and living in tier 2/3 cities, so I think this claim is unbacked, purely anecdotal.
For luxury market where say, a potential i4 or EQS buyer already has a dozen other cars in their garage, this may hold true, but not for most of the people, especially those who are not car enthusiasts and are not engaging on car related discussions on the internet
11:25 it wont be wrong to say that most cars themselves are a city phenomenon, when you see NHAI data, only about 6million vehicles pass tolls daily all over india, ie including trucks and bus and other commercial vehicles. Even if 50% of the total was pvt cars, it would be 3 million or just 1% of the 300million strong car fleet. We as enthusiasts maybe into road trips and long drives, but truth is, cars are a rarity itself, at around 3 cars per 100 people.
Then, it is not like air travel and AC rail travel is costly, for most middle class, train is still staple mode of transport for long distance, especially since if you have a joint family and a small car, it is not possible to carry everyone 500km away WITH luggage, for a week long marriage ceremony. The upper middle class is using flights a lot, thanks to air miles on credit cards and whatnot. It is important to take a step back and see the bigger picture about city vs highway usage of cars in general, not just EV itself. Most people don't even break 10K km per year on their ICE cars because they only drive in city.
Kia's EV3 if launched at a reasonable price in India will be a game changer for the mass market. The best and value for money product as of now in the Indian market is Ioniq 5 an EV6.
One point to add here is that India is now adding more renewable power than we are adding EVs, so one can argue that the new EVs are using newer renewable power!
EVs can be a mainstream use for all city driving. Only for people who want to drive 1000kms a day can’t use an EV.
EV adoption will have to take place from grassroots level: start at two wheelers - scooters and bikes, three wheelers - autorickshaws, and next for sun 1 ton mini trucks - Tata Ace class vehicles.
Next up should be city buses with swappable batteries.
Next step will be LCV trucks up to 6tons capacity.
Lastly it will be passengers cars and long distance busses and trucks. The reason I say this is because only a few early adopters will jump into EV passenger cars, the rest will wait out.
Gist -
This is a podcast episode about electric vehicles (EVs) in India.
Here are the key points:
* The Indian government is offering subsidies and tax breaks to promote EVs.
* Tata Motors is the leading manufacturer of EVs in India.
* Early adopters of EVs are happy with the experience, especially in cities where they can charge at home.
* Range anxiety (fear of running out of battery) is a concern for some people, especially for long trips.
* The public charging infrastructure for EVs in India is still not very developed.
* The resale value of EVs is uncertain.
* Battery life is a concern for some people, but batteries are warrantied for 8-10 years and degradation is gradual.
* Battery fires are a rare occurrence, and EVs are no more likely to catch fire than gasoline vehicles.
* There is a debate about the type of battery chemistry that is best for EVs: NMC batteries have a higher energy density but are more likely to overheat, while LFP batteries are less energy-dense but more stable.
The conclusion is that EVs are a good option for city cars, but there are still some challenges that need to be addressed before they can become mainstream in India.
Ioniq 5 is absolutely amazing, but 45 almost 50 lakhs for a car I'd be skeptical to take long range😬
Ioniq 5 n 🥵
Thanks for the detailed conversation. You guys skipped battery degradation over the year. Even before 8 years it is going down. EVs are not for me. I don't have much money like you guys, and I have only one car.
My MG ZS EV will be 2 years old in July which also completed 25k km.
So far no issues at all, no battery degradation, I have done multiple long distance trips where I used public charger.
Drive is smooth and silent. So if you dont need to travel on highway very often but drive a lot in city range just go for EV.
I'm using tiago ev for my daily usage of about 130kms...14mths in and it's already clocked in 33k kms.... planning to buy a strong hybrid for longer journeys...hyryder or honda city(hybrid)??...your suggestion please
City is a nice choice coz of the engine
Hyryder gives 26kmpl after clocking 10k km.
I agree, hybrid is a much better option for long distance
The Hyryder is better value and you'd get the benefits of the SUV body style like a higher seating position
Since you already have an EV, just buy a good ol' fun to drive ICE for the long drives.
Maruti delayed the launch for too long, claiming a 2-door wouldn't work in India, and Mahindra Thar used that gap to its advantage. But honestly, every brand needs an iconic product that defines them. It doesn't have to be a mass seller but should be there to show people they're passionate about what they do. The Jimny is that vehicle for Maruti in India, and having it in their lineup will reflect positively on their other vehicles as well.
I had a Reva EV 15 years ago and with a range of 80 kms. It was sufficient for me in all city use. I had charging points at my home and at my office.
Very limited public charging points back in 2007-10.
EVs make perfect sense for City uses.
Im an ev user for 7 months. We have 10kw rooftop solar plant. We have a primary ICE SUV for long travel.
We own a TATA Nexon ev for city and under 100 kms drive.
Monthly my savings from ev car itself, which i drive for 1000-1200kms, is around 10000 rupees.
Bill on household electricity bill 3000-3500 rs, and the money paid from the government as ours is an on-grid solar plant, is around 2000-2500rs.
Total savings per month 15000-16500 rs.
On top of it, fantastic driving experience.😊
As a second car, for in and around city, with your own rooftop solar, its one of the best investments 😊
Well spent 49 minutes of my time, so much to learn and absorb. Was considering Punch EV or Comet as a 2nd car , now I will wait for Suzuki/ Toyota offerings before i make my decision. Thanks guys!
We’ve been driving a Kia EV6 for over a year and have never had a software issue. It does Bombay Pune return with ease and it is a dream to drive. Also we have found a major saving in fuel.
As per TCO calculations one should only buy and EV if the daily running is long.
I read in some report that the added cost of a Nexon EV over and ICE takes ~50-70k kms to recover. And if a person is going only 7-8k kms per buying a ICE still makes sense since it will take 7-8 yrs to recover the cost. At which point people start hunting for a new car.
That price difference has now gone down. Even if you click 20kms daily, EVs will recover (especially if you compare them to automatic version of Nexon)
The Battery Swapping Can Solve 1) Time & 2) Infra If Government Standardised Batteries
EVs are getting the raw deal when it comes to their environmental impact. Never did we talk about environment impact of mining iron ore, steel plants etc when it comes to ICE cars, or environmental impact of extracting crude oil or it's refinement etc
I was driving an Activa, after much deliberation, calculations, I bought an EV scooter from a well known brand(not the chinese imported), my running costs are down by a factor of 10!
With the running(below average
Everyone will have their own preferences. There are and will be a lot of people who will love the EV driving experience.
For me, the EV choice is about convinience, not cost. I dont have the ability to install a home charger (rented apt) and the charging times are very slow even on DC fast chargers.
Ideally, the EV charge time should be twice as long as it would take to fill up an ICE car and have a real range of 350-400 kms. I believe this would make more people switch over since all the other important bits are in place already
Love your podcasts. I am loving it. Remembering the decade of the 2000z when Autocar was a pioneer in the media domain. Here is cheers to another pioneering effort
People living in societies in noida have a hard time with EVs. Home charging not possible here. EV plus charging is perfect for city driving
My learning - EVs use a single-speed reduction gear to adjust the motor's rotation speed to the wheels efficiently.
sorabjee is so knowledgeable and popular yet so genuine and down to earth.
When Hormazd was with Indian Auto/Auto India I remember an article about an EV from Kerala which had a range of 70-90km. But it didn't start commercial production. If i am not wrong, The company was called Eddy Currents
Great podcast guys.. Keep em coming. It was comprehensive. Only info where I was hoping you'd touch upon is about the new EV policy of the government and which all foreign manufacturers are likely to take advantage of it if any, and the price impacts on the current and future products.
Whats stopping the mass adoption of EVs is a good charging infra , and maybe also a speedy charging time
Great to listen to Hormazd sir. So much to learn from him. Thank you for starting this podcast
We dont have basic charging infra yet, what will people do with SUV ev's? not dissing, just curious as SUV are mainly for city and touring so how does that work? Only Auto podcast i watch and just because Hormazd, what a brilliant guy!
Where does tata source their batteries from?
The future is EV only, And my next car will be MG Cloud. MG s are really reliable. My uncles MG ZS is 3 years old and run 30000 kms. No complaints yet, 👍🏻👍🏻
Rightfully pointed out about the resale value and with battery technology still developing. Lithium is a limited source. There are other battery technologies such as Aliminum Air battery or Sodium Ion Battery coming in as well. And charging infrastructure and chargers should be universal. And yes you never know when Lithium batteries will be obsolete 💯🤘🏻. Sodium ion batteries or Aluminum air batteries have much more long range. Companies still working on them.
Very Excited for Baojun / MG Yep once they decide to launch here . With fast charging and small chassis , think it can bridge gap between using it exclusively in city and nearby cities and be cheaper at the same time
Lack of charging infrastructure will prevent EVs from taking off. The sellers of EVs have to factor in costs of setting up chargers on the roads.
EVs in the 2 wheeler segment are just fine. Ather and Ola have got the right formula. But for Cars, ai think we are a long way off. Car ownership will fall, go out of fashion if shared transportation is made available. Look at an apartment complex, more then 50% of cars are never used or used very rarely. There must be some way of making a group of buyers share a limited no of cars.
EV market is slowing down in the US . I know our country is different but US sets the trend across the world and the main reason is not cost, its the anxiety and no resale value
Pl make 1 video on Windsor on
1) How to use infotainment system
2) Free public charging scheme kaise kaam karta hai
3) practical working of AC & range
Yes resale is a bomb to explode... In addition to that dose it make even sense to buy it as the upfront cost is significantly higher than a ICE and we don't know what happens to the battery after 8years also kwhat would be the replacement cost? Tooo many questions unanswered...
Can I go for byd seal plz help don't know how the service will be ?
Sir would about those who have to commute 150km daily in NCR given the stop-go . It may take 3 hrs, if it rains then 5hrs? will charging remain >>??
I feel today EVs are products that are developed and trying to fit in a market. EVs fit well in scooters, autorickshaw, city trucks and intercity buses and hypercars. For rest EVs have to mature for Indian market.
EV owner. It’s a no-brainer city car. I save a lakh per year. The only disadvantage is I cannot take it outside the city.
it's important to have swappable and portable battery. That itself will change the scene a lot.
I admire both of you a lot. I love this podcast in particular. I get to learn a lot from what is discussed. All the best to you. Keep up the good work.
Thank you
Did actually see a Mercedes EV, being towed on a truck, because it ran out of juice, in Ooty. A lot lot more needs to be done on charging infrastructure.
One small ev car for regular city commute only this scenario is where ev succeeds that too if ur driving daily for more than 50kms a day for longer journeys hybrids are way to go one full tank 1000plus kms i would really jate to always plan journey on higheay then wait for an hour to recharge even after planning you end up seeing the charger not working on arrival or some one already logged in
EV are Mobile phone meets Car at each level...
EV are the future but Lithium based are not there comes it Resale Value...
Resale Value:
I am one of them who believes that resale value is very difficult to come by. EV to me is leasing. I am getting on a company lease.
Usage:
Back in 2019, I use to say EV have made a case of Hyperlocal (15 km radius from your house), today 2024 I am saying it is good city use and you are inching towards Mumbai-Pune but has to be complimented with decent Fast Charging station (1-2).
These are really good podcasts. Keep it going guys
Thanks for your opinion on q8 etron, will be getting it delivered soon 🤞
EVs are failing- Globally.
Reasons?:
RANGE ANXIETY, RIDICULOUSLY LONG CHARGING TIME, LACK OF INFRASTRUCTURE.(unless there is a breakthrough that reduces the charging time to less than 5 minutes, there is no escape from this).
The biggest reason for the downfall of EVs apart from lack of EV infrastructure, range anxiety and long charging time is that EV cars become useless and obsolete after their battery warranty period. It is like buying a use-and-throw gadget. You either pay a ridiculous amount of money to change the battery (You can buy a new car for that money) or put it in a dump yard.
On the other hand, ICE cars retain 30 to 50 % of their value even after 8 years. If you buy a reliable ICE car, you can use it for decades.
All manufacturers know this and more and more people have started to complain about their experiences about the amount they are being charged to replace dead batteries.
No wonder EVs are failing.
I some how feel I cant financially afford this conversation.
As a summary, EV could be great city car but that means daily running would be very limited. This itself is paradoxical to the initial high value you are paying and not so great resale value you are expected to get
EV is the future atleast within cities
I have booked a BYD seal premium for me. Is it a good buy? For City and long term uae. 10+ yrs.
Absolutely
Please check the ground clearance. That is a problem with sedans. Even Honda city scrapes a lot of speed breakers
Yes it's a very good car but as with an EV long term reliability is an unknown
Good podcast. But would prefer a deeper conversation discussing data. For instance - residual value comparison data for an ICE/EV, ideal daily trip for an EV to make sense considering the higher upfront cost, fires/failure rates for ICE vs EV etc. Podcast touches a lot of pointe but they don't go deep.
as Hormazd Sorabjee asked why cant there be a guy at the charging station to charge up the vehicle, actually that kind of EV charging station is there on a route to Hyderabad to Vijayawada and its name is Voltron EV charging Station in there simply you go and guy comes up and just charges the vehicle and you charged according to the watts you are charged and there is restaurant in it, and it was so successful that recently there started another four of them in other routes and there have super reviews in google too and also govt electric buses also charge there too with the high capacity(180 watts) chargers there and i think lot of them need to give that kind of service then instead of this stupid app based low chargers on the highways
That’s good to know. Please send more details.
Is it still Eco friendly if everyone scraps EVs so much sooner than ICE?
When can we expect the new facelift IONIQ 5 that was launched in March 2024 in Korea to be available in India ?
Just make the metro ride free or subsidize it.. we don’t need ton of cars in India
Despite USA have EV infra in last few quarter there EV sales have declined... I am not bulish about EV however OEMs will try to change ppl behaviour by creating a demand in market
Sales and sales growth are two different things
Coal is the main source of energy in india that's why evs are not that much environment friendly. Also lithium extraction emitting more carbon then petrol in short time
I understand the craze for SUVs and manufacturers coming out with tons of them due to fomo. But as a devout sedan lover, can someone explain why nobody wants to make really good sedan evs?
Podcast on strong hybrids and what global models would suit our market. Also just to educate the indian market on strong hybrids, their resale values, milage, battery, range etc
do a podcast on hybrids
Re : Charging, The Future may be Quick Swap Battery Packs. You go to a bunk 4 guys come in take the old battery packs out (ideally detaches from the sides or boots), in goes the new ones. You Pay and :) go. Imagine them wearing f1 style kit while doing this :)
Why would u need that when u can quick charge at charging stations avaible at a dhaba or hotel or petrol pump.
Evs r built to cost and not built to last . Even in TESLAS Rattling is a common thing… even people inthe well advanced Nations like EU countries & US r hesitating to buy an EV . For majority of Indians car is a long cherished dream and they don’t want to take risks that even Majority of the US & EU people r worried about
hesitant? EV sales increase every year, you are confusing sales growth with sales
Resale Value should be higher for EV compared to normal ICE cars simply because it has more material which can be recycle like copper from all electrical wires, lithium and cobalt etc from battery. and nowadays same value ice car is more tax than car.
EVs will surely have higher scrap value than ICE vehicles for the reason you mentioned......but the jury is still out on vehicle resale value.....
No mention of EV6? it certainly deserves a feedback!
Awesome video!
as a guy who drove his Punch EV LR 3500 km in 20 days, I will tell you EVs are the future and ICE is no comparision
Our grid system is not capable to handle 10% EV market share in India. Batteries need to be cheaper, more reliable and provide better range for more adoption.
Thanks
Is the first ev is Eddy's electronics Lovebird in 1994. Not Reva in 2000.
EV cars will be 50% of market by 2030. Just need to reduce battery prices by 10-15%
EVs will be like mobile phones in the resale market.......
Gov should charge road tax on EVs and give subsidy on ex showroom price to make it comparable with ICE.
nissan leaf ev - why it is not in india - even thou its available in other countries decades ago
10:25, most of the rides are in the city for vast number of people. :)
One line what Hormazd say "EV are one dimensional and no emotions". That will be biggest deterrent for me. Also 90% home dont have parking for more than 1 car, so keeping EV as second vehicle for city is a luxury for most of them. That includes me. For me EV will remain and flourish for 2 wheelers as that makes more sense for many of us.
my only concern is that after 8-10 years when batteries will die completely, where on earth they gonna put dead batteries ?
plug in hybrid has better future for mass market success...
Two takeaways: EVs make sense only as a city car and when you have another ICE car at home. Secondly, don’t buy an EV if you have resale value in mind.
There are other problems as well. Range reduces significantly in peak summers. 130 km in full charge in Pinch LR EV. Also Dealers service in Tata is some cases are pathetic, they have some con practises. Even Brand Tata doesn’t respond to complaints.
Spending your lacks on a product with so many ifs and buts has never been a wise decision. Buying Ev gives you free anxiety and a person will only realise this when he is with his family and gets stuck somewhere with no immediate help.
Pure EVs are not the future.
These cars are great if you dont leave the city and have a home charger,otherwise they become a logistical nightmare. With that said the Tata Tigor EV is the model of the EV people need,its not too flashy ,not too expensive and it thrives in the city. When you have to use hulking monstrosities like the Kia EV9 and ridiculously expensive cars like the Merc EQS to mimic the flexibility of a ICE car you have lost the plot however.
Let's accept, at this point, the electric car can never be one's primary and only car. You could use it for daily short or organized runs, but when it comes to long distance drives, the charging systems doesn't support. I would like owning one just for daily runs. I guess a plug in hybrid with real world range of 60-80km would be the best deal for now
Why govt levies 28%gst on spares of evs and 5%on new evs. This is not done, for diys and repairs this is very injustice.
The only reason i am not buying an ev because there are not many good EVs in the market..if would love to buy a tesla suv
Minimum highway charging should 50kwh so that can get 300 km range in 45 to 60 minutes
But we have so many 25 kv and 10kv takes 2 to 3 hours this is too much
Two things they completely overlooked :
1. BYD and Kia products
2. Whatever happened to Tata Altroz EV ?
Maybe the car industry should have started off with strong hybrids and slowly moved on to pure electric cars
This one was nice and informative
Actually I’m staying away from EV vehicles. The strong reason behind is lithium batteries will be superseded soon. New solid state batteries are under way Japan is doing extensive research in coming up with these batteries due to their longer life and much much reliable as these batteries never get fire with over heat as we normally see in present Evs.
Is there a possibility of old cars getting converted into EVs and if so whether they will be accepted by authorities and also will they be worth the cost ?