well, someone has to be the worst, and i'll be somewhat pissed if that "worst" is NOT rogue, warlock or hunter, and instead happens to be shaman, druid, paladin or warrior. people were asking for shaman and pala tanks for classic+, not effin warlocks and rogues wtf.
@@ZugzugZugzugsoni mostly agree since I'm going shaman tank but people have always wanted warlock tanks because there is a fight in AQ where you need a warlock to tank and it's always been that way so I've heard people talk about how they enjoyed that part of AQ the most and would love to be a demo lock tank. The rogue thing not so much, I'd prefer if they made the tank talents for rogue more of a pirate/swashbuckler with high threat abilities able to tank for small group stuff or maybe be a handy OT in dungeons when the main tank is struggling or something. So like more of a support tank but not a true tank. Thematically that would be pretty cool but I just really like pirates 😂
I feel like they were in super deep into development when making SoD and over the last 6 months they saw the want for a classic +. My tin foil hat idea is that the lvl cap is there to buy then more time to actually integrate the classic plus aspect the higher you get in levels. I’m optimistic and feel it’s gonna be a lot of fun. Plus we can die again lol. Finally
I believe it could be your thoughts. But I also feel like it’s just a glorified beta for later game content while they polish up later game content like you said. See what works and what doesn’t as this is just a season meaning one day server will be brought down. Which leads me to think they will make a real classic + next year or maybe reveal that they are working on the classic + most people envisioned. Either way I’m pretty pumped to check out the new rune system! Cheers
I hope this is true, i would not be suprised if they got 3 more raids ready i also hope for some real new content/quests between phases, maybe some kind of pvp with rewards in other case they will be no reason to play early phases after hitting lvl cap, 1 10-man raid per 3 days is not enough imho, content is thing that concern me most
i had the same thoughts. its easy for them to pump out a quick dungeon into raid conversion for alot of classic dungies so easy couple months of dev time which hopefully means theyre putting in any extra time for kara crypts or uldum or maybe hyjal furbolg raid? IDK. . so many speculations i remain optimistic
I think a lot of people assume that its a time biding mechanism, but I think its a way to both force longevity of engagement (fresh every month basically) and also to make the experience savory for players. Without level banding, they would have spent a ton of time developing content for the game and 90% of it would have been rushed through by players who want to “stay with the pack” and rush to 60. This is a phenomenal way to create a phased approach to leveling so that everyone is on the same playing field throughout the leveling experience, without ruining the game. Now you minmax at checkpoints instead of saying “low level content wont matter in 10 levels so im just going to find the most efficient way to get exp and rush through the game.”
I think a point almost every UA-camr/streamer that’s talked about their thoughts on classic plus has missed, or at least didn’t make an impactful enough statement on is the class revamping in regards to adding more roles. How many tanks were there in vanilla….1! Sure Druids could offtank or do dungeons, but if you wanted to tank, you were warrior or you picked a different role. How many warriors would be in a 40 man MC run? 20+!!! Because they were the top dps by a large margin, no one played demo lock, no one played ret pally, no one played combat rogue….these changes give every class so many more options to experience the game and makes every group comp that much better because of it.
If you want to experiment in a way where you may make something OP (changing ANYTHING), you really need it to not count for a bit. You need the ability to mulligan. This is them throwing everything out there, from Warlock tanks to Mage healer, to let them see what's the WORST shit they should never do again. Don't worry, we're gonna tell them. And we're also gonna tell them what we like. And that goes into the next iteration, a "real Classic+"
Trueeee. Really reminds me of the PoE approach of the league introducing a new mechanic and after it will maybe go core. In essence the SoD is kinda the PTR?
I'm interested in SoD, and I think some of the wilder changes could make for a fun time. It's like taking a week's vacation to Disneyland but people are treating it like you're moving into Disneyland. WOW's community treats the game like it's a sacred relic and that they're the priests. You're not allowed to touch it in a way they say you can't, and they fight over who is allowed to say what
You treating it like a disneyland vacation is exactly why tourists like you end up ruining the game. You shouldn't vote on something if you're going to enjoy it a bit then bail to play your favorite mode after ruining the version of a game that a certain demographic enjoy. Especially since this is supposed to cater to classic -era players, not retail / cata andies who are just bored of their version cause it's literally braindead outside of raid logging or sitting in queue in a major city.
@@wholawl I don't know how you can sit there and call future versions of the game boring when you've played the same bloody game for 20 years and believe it's something sacred. If all I played was Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time since it came out and Nintendo made an alternate version to play, I'd at least be excited to try it out, especially if it was going to be part of the foundation of a sequel/expansion. Vanilla is good, and I can see why people like it, but its not immaculate. Hell I think TBC is better than Vanilla.
Love they're willing to experiment, but now there's no excuse to not fix the problems; Faction balance, boosts, multi-box, bots, gold buyers, lack of world PvP, raids designed around meta builds and addons, obsolete low-level zones, new expansion makes old content obsolete, lack of community building such as REQUIRED group content outside sweaty raids, etc. At this point it just looks like they're adding retail gameplay to Classic's world. - Rune: Damage + X - Monster: Health + X - Gameplay = Same I would love to see things like.. - Runes add penalty with buff. Like "Grants extra swing, but health reduced to 50%". This makes balancing easier and players must weigh the benefits/penalties of each rune. - Forced faction balance. Before character creation, the player has to select the faction. Only servers with
I hope they do a Gnomer and SM raid at the same time. Think of walking up to SM and the STAIR ENTRANCE is a raid portal and when we enter, the whole lobby door area is a raid. Clear each wing to get the keys for the doors. 100% ready for it.
I heard that they're increasing the damage of all mobs to compensate for the increased player power, but their health stays the same. The idea is that you should feel stronger, but the world should still feel dangerous so you can't just pull 5 mobs at a time because then you're gonna die. But not increasing their health also sounds a bit problematic. Some of the new abilities will allow you to pretty much one-shot mobs before they get a chance to hit you.
A lot of those one shot abilities are going to have decent CDs or require large mana investments though so you won't be able to do it constantly or will have to spend a decent amount of time drinking to recover mana to do it again. I'm okay with this.
If anything id like the questing world to be more dangerous but with increased xp and drop rewards . If this is the direction we are going then it's already been done, I hated leveling whole being super OP.
I am excited about this. I think they nailed the reason classic doesn't feel as classic like.. Because every detail has been min/maxed to infinity. There is no mystery or divergence if you miss spend 2 talent points you can be kicked from a raid. It is just not what made us love the game. So discovering new things and play styles is exactly the perfect take on what we want even if we didn't realize we wanted it. I have high hopes.
Yeah I feel this. I was a ret paladin wearing a mix of healing gear and a shield and sword at one point in 2005. Then I started realising wtf I needed to start looking at other players and wowhead. Wasn't just me, so many people in my raid groups, we'd die as soon as a boss pulled or we'd all be oom in a minute. Now playing classic, every man and their dog is a dps warrior
I am excited. Seeing Stormwind or Ironforge filled with lvl 25s sounds fun. I think lvl 40 will be the most fun bracket, with people getting their mounts and lvl 40 talents.
The lvl 25 cap is awesome in my mind. Im with you about the mage healer rogue tank etc but still will be cool I think the end goal is for lvl 60 classic plus with a few lvl cap stops on the way to give time to adjust to new metas and see where to land in regards to lvl 60 end game classic plus.
What people want for WoW plus is the private server Turtle WoW with a focus on refining classes and finishing old content that never came out as well as expanding content consistent with the lore. What you are getting is private server Ascension that throws the class rules out of the window and just goes with whatever change sounds fun in concept.
I think in practice it'll be fun, having all the runes unlocked right away in the blizzcon demo was overwhelming but doing all sorts of fun new content to slowly unlock them will be different :)
The best part is it's experimental. They can easily tweak or tone down changes. Being that they're reusing lots of content/code, it should be easy for them to do this.
They didn't need to go out on a limb, the community told them exactly what they wanted. New content under the classic mechanics, that's it. Not XP Boosts, not a new magic system, not extensive class changes - that just sounds like retail. Count me out.
I think its a cool idea. My only fear is the lose of "Class" Identity that we all love about Classic. The problem I've always had with Retail is that all the classes feel the same with minor differences.
if the cause for worry is losing class identity the last solution would be enabling more classes to tank and heal. shamans and paladin getting tank specs alongside druid and warrior should have been all they changed. that way both factions have 3 tank classes. when it comes to enhancement and retri dps, a few key fixes would be all it takes to make them viable as dpsers. for enhancement, a way to regain mana and a cooldown reduction on stormstrike would be a good first step, a cleave ability would also be welcome, like a whirlwind that does elemental (wind) damage instead of physical damage, perhaps with a guaranteed WF proc on the primary target of the ability would go a long way. for retri, crusader strike and a cleave would be a good first step (kudos to blizzard for getting both of these right on the first try with seal of the martyr and crusader strike). battle (melee) mage would be really cool as well, i'm sure people have already posted plenty of cool ideas for spells for a spec like this. rogues should have just gotten some aoe abilities and new poisons along with their shadow step. warlocks could get a niche anti-magic tanking that wasn't a fullblown sustained tank spec (at least outside of metamorph form). hunters getting a melee spec is enough in and of itself tbh. moonkin getting their mana issues fixed (oomkin) would have been enough to make them viable and interesting since they never really got a chance in vanilla. shadow priests getting some buffs to their mana battery role alongside their "mirror image" spell and a slight dps buff would be enough to fix them. i get that blizzard is going above and beyond these simple fixes to the classes in the game in order to get people hyped, but having so many classes able to tank and heal is not really what anyone asked for.
@@ZugzugZugzugson Problem is, you have to solve the tank / Healer shortage and this wouldn´t work with just "few changes" becouse People don´t like Warri tanks (hell i never got into Warrior as a tank, even when i had to play one myself. Something that changed with Paladin, but even this wasn´t the perfect one for me which lead to me changing my Main to a DH at Legion... ) and on the other hand the rogue tank seems to be more a 5 Man dungeon tank nothing more (same for the Mage healer, becouse he has to use Arcane and you can´t simply ignore Arcane resistent bosses in later raids [when they bring new ones] )
I understand what you mean mechanically but reading through the runes actually gives me a feeling of more class identity, especially in specialization which speaking of which the talents not changing is a good safeguard.
something fun to try and fuck around in and giving them more ammo showing people want classic+ and getting that eventually sounds good to me especially with finding out what works and what doesnt, hope im not being too optimistic
When I think of classic plus I think of what classic could have been reimagined to be. SoD is the place to trial that and to see what people like and don’t like. It’s to explore all the ‘“what ifs”. What was interesting to me is I thought your point of limited development time. I completely agree with that. With limited time they need to make sure what they make will work for a real classic plus in the future. This is the testing grounds for that. I don’t think it was realistic for them to create new zones, create real new 25 or 40 man raids with the limited amount of development time they have. Great video though!
Judging by the math, 1/3 of the community is upset. It is only the warrior rogue mage warlock mains Who are upset about SOD, they just want the SAME solved meta game where THEY are the best. We already got that, it’s definitely time for a new thing!
I like the idea of non pigeon holed classes into certain roles in order to raid. The wide range of choices now lets people play the flavor of class they like while in a Classic era version of WoW. I think there will be a repeatability of those older raids even at higher level eventually. This also feels like this is Classic + Beta test to send it and see what sticks. They could add runes to Classic WoW as plus content if we say uncovered them in an Uldum Patch that opens up these new class augmenting runes that are a there for the players to discover like in SOD. Could be really fun.
Feel the same, lot of this comes out of left field. However I would say Blizz could have just announced cata and retail at blizzcon and never bothered with any form of classic+, so for that Im looking forward to trying SoD and see where it goes
bro my hype got killed so hard when they announced more retail and cata classic, and then they caught me off guard completely with the classic+ announcement. what a rollercoaster.
100% agree with Staysafe here. I think he speaks for a lot of us old Classic fans. Personally, I didn't think that many people in that subreddit were that positive about Season of Discovery. Everything that was laid off towards the end of this video about low hanging fruits was what I wanted to see in Season of Discovery. But instead, Blizzard put in the time to make many changes. It makes classes lose their identity if a rogue / warlock can tank and a mage can heal...
I disagree because you don't have to tank as a rogue, shaman, lock, or heal as mage because the other specs are soooo good. For example I can actually play affliction and destro and feel good about my class identity. If you want to mop the thawed ice off the floor as a mage why would you want to heal? If I'm feeling elemental on sham why would I tank if I can sit back and LAVA BURST? it's all on how we want to play and personify those identities, and it won't be the wild west of flavors with talents unchanged and limited slots for runes.
I don't think seeing other people play your class differently will spoil your experience, I would argue that it will actually make your unique identity stand out more, no longer bound by that nostalgic meta.
Today you have to either hate or love things. You need to pick a camp. You can't just try a thing out and be the judge yourself. Then decide if you want to keep doing it, or go on to another thing. That would be insane. And TBH even if you hate a thing.. make sure you keep consuming content about said thing and tell everyone that doesn't hate it why they are wrong.
As someone who struggled to find enjoyment in classic due to the way the classes felt so simple, it's compelling for me to want to try this season of classic. I like the idea of there being a bit more meat to the class specs. And my personal favorite, shaman tanking, is an absolute home run for bringing me to classic. With the added bonus that Ele get's Lava Burst. I can chunk meatballs in Classic WoW. That's dope.
I think the only thing holding this back for most people is the ham-fisted way new abilities and content is being added. If the same idea of adding onto unfinished classes and specs was achieved through more flavorful means and talent tree tweaking I don't think there would be anywhere near as many people against Season of Discovery. Also, it's time for people to understand that Classic+ is not Classic nor should it be minor changes, you will never have the initial experience of 2004 or 2019 again. The same way that OSRS isn't 2007Scape from a content and balance standpoint that needs to be the mindset going into Season of Discovery and Classic+ if it were to happen. And here's a bit of a sacred cow roast, the way that Warlock, Hunter, Druid, and Paladin turned out in Vanilla and Classic was not ingenious class design and fantasy but the result of muddled and unfinished ideas. Hunters hilariously didn't even talent trees until after the Beta and that shows even through to 1.12. So I say bring on Tanking Shamans, Rogues, Warlocks, and Priests. Let Arcane mage become a Mistweaver, make melee Hunters viable, and make gear better itemized for every spec. Nerf Engineering into the ground and add talent trees to professions. Rebalance all the activated racial abilities for niche PvP application and distribute more +weapon skill racials. Make those level 25, 40, and 50 raids into Heroic 5 mans for level 60s.
What would be crazy is if they do season of discovery like 3 times and then release it as classic plus. Onion progression > vertical / horizontal progression.
My take is that whilst we have leveling caps it's guna get meme'd on, but once we're at level 60 and people are doing MC, BWL, AQ or anything new ie; Kara Crypts, people who didn't like it or want it guna have that FOMO.
It's a lot different than the classic+ that I would build, but there a lot of pros to making a lot of changes. All of the classic content, like guides and such, need to get remade. It's a huge opportunity for creators and a lot of entertainment for people to dig into. Imagine all of the new gold making strategies (solo dungeons, etc) just waiting to be found, for instance.
You pretty much nailed my thoughts. I wont be playing SoD, I'll stick to Hardcore. Also, dont know if you caught this but they are gonna add a Self Found mode, but to existing hardcore servers. What's the point then??? I really think the Classic team has lost the pulse. I don't get it.
I think this could be very, very fun but I can definitely see why there's such a divide. I personally think mage healers and warlock tanks is a bit over the top. Looking forward to trying it out though!
Warlock tanks isn´t new (they even existed a short time in the Vanilla Beta) and Mage Healers depends on how later raids will look like (becouse it is Healing through Arcane damage only)
I agree with your analogy of cutting down the classic+ tree and throwing up a new one. It would have been enough to raise up the meme specs, the shadow priest, the retribution paladin, the balance Druid, etc, to give them new itemization / tier gear. To add new leveling dungeons, perhaps a new zone. These would have been tasteful changes in line with what people know and love. As far as the idea of building content that no one will do after two months, I think a way around that is to scale those dungeons up when the next cap is introduced. So at level 40, scale up blackfathom deeps so that it is still content that can be done.
This launching as a 'seasonal' server is a good idea. No mater how much it gets messed up itll get 'reset'. Excited to play around with it. Im also excited to try a classic where we arnt pigeon holed into 1 role per class, and only warrior tanks etc.
Season of Discovery is not for me unfortunately, I'll give it a try but don't intend to stay long and probably go back to Era or other versions. But I'm happy others are excited.
IMHO this is just a beta for classic +, the same way SoM hardcore buff was a beta for hardcore server release. I think they keep the runes people liked as new abilities for a permanent classic + and throw away the rest. Or at least that's what I hope, because the way it sits it feels like a low effort modded P server, not a blizzard release.
I'm super looking forward to SoD, as someone that hasn't played wow since a few weeks into Dragonflight. I love all the things they are adding and I like the level cap at 25. Gives a super short level up process, so it's casual feeling. Sure, streams and others will no live the content and will probably finish everything in a few days. But it's still fine for others that can't game for 8+ hours a day too. Maybe it'll be a week before I get 25 and can raid. I enjoy the rune system to mix up the classes a bit, glad they are changing things up to make things fresh. I've seen people get bad because Blizz isn't innovating but here they are using imagination to add stuff to classes and people still get mad. What are they actually looking for? I haven't played wow in over a year but will be giving SoD a try.
My favorite way to level has always been to have decent if not the best gear that I can have while I do so. If SoD will force people to stick around and farm me gear that will make me stronger out there in the free world, I’m all for it. Def going to play on a pvp server as well
great perspective. i agree with you on most points, its not what we wanted or expected. It might be a little too much. i guess ill give it a go while the hype is real
hi staysafe, i don't know if you'll read this comment but i want to add my thoughts as a player who enjoyed WoW the most during classic launch. IF the devs implement changes, i'd like them to be: regarding classes, while i'm open to trying out new stuff, in reality i'd preffer if the changes were only applied to certain specs to actually make them viable to play, and leave the ones that work mostly untouched. so that means no mage healers, no warlock or rogue tanks. the only class i'd be ok with being changed to a tank would be enh shamans, since they are analogous to paladins but on the horde side. also, classes should remain specific and shouldn't be able to do anything and everything. more important than classes though i think are the changes to the gameplay and the world. i think releasing the leveling through phases is a genius idea. leveling is one of the best parts of classic and this system makes people take their time playing the game instead of rushing to 60. also, reworking dungeons into entry level/leveling raids sounds awesome. i am very excited for the prospect of a scarlet monastery or a BRD raid. lastly, i'd like to see changes to the world in accordance to the spirit of classic but taking into account player power and experience. because lets face it, the game is kinda "solved" and that's a problem. the world needs to regain a sense of danger and mystery and that for me is a make or break for Classic +. an easy way to do this is increasing mob health and damage, but i'd like for the systems to be reworked deeper and further than that. rework and double down on resistances for example. things like werewolves being weak to silver weapons, undead being resistant to shadow and weak to light, armored mobs being resistant to slashing weapons but weak to blunt, etc. perhaps make new types of curses and diseases as permanent debuffs that stay on your character until you get dispelled or cured. small changes like that add to the whole feel of an "RPG".
I think that the scope of the raid changes are mostly boss changes. I don’t think the lay out and environment is different. Which probably severely cuts down on development time.
I think we should be commending Blizzard for taking some risks in recent times they have been notorious for taking the safe route and not being creative. Now they finally do and people are mad. I have NFI how to please these people. Personally I can't wait, the raids will still get use when people are leveling new characters. A new raid is easier to make than a new zone. Blizzard is listening and ready to make adjustments along the way with all the new abilities added. I only wish they would use a poll system for the community to decide things.
Very good video! Honestly i think they should take a bunch of zones from retail WoW and make a 3rd continent, add some of the none furry races to it with a bunch of leveling zones
Pre 2019 Classic I think i would have gone for the smaller changes. After playing classic for years (and quitting in TBC) I am happy they went for some bolder changes to start things off. Otherwise I dont think I would be as excited to come back.
Completely agree. If "classic +" just meant that ret and prot pallies, spriests, boomies, non heal shamans, and maybe hunters get minor buffs then honestly thats way too boring. Warriors would still most likely be on top and not much would change besides maybe 3 or 4 raid spots per raid are different classes. At that point who cares? I dont want to prog all the way through Naxx all over again just to do some new fifth raid that might come a year from now, give me big shakeups. And thats what they decided to do. Couldnt be happier.
I am so pumped for SoD. Classic + meant something different to everyone you ask. This is Blizzards version and I’m excited to try it out! PS I tried the demo at blizzcon and it was hella fun. Went thru the line twice to try two different classes
I don’t have an issue with mage heals, druid* Windfury totem, rogue tanks, lock tanks, etc - it means horde will be able to utilize Tranquil Air; there will be less warriors overall, and there will be more options for tanks and healers. I feel this is all good for a Classic+ scenario. Button line: I asked for shaman tank, I got shaman tank, I’m thrilled ❤️ Dual-Wield shaman tank for elemental fights sounds awesome
Your points about sod being a litmus test for classic + caught my attention. I don’t think blizz is using sod to test whether or not to do classic +, they have already committed substantial resources to revamping dungeons into raids and will more likely launch + servers in the future than not. Sod is just a way to test which specs, skills, metas to include in classic + servers when that time comes, and which metas were poorly received. To test these ideas in a non permanent seasonal timeline gives them a way to gather community feedback rather than release classic + in an unfinished state and have it be poorly received. To me this is blizzs way of engaging the classic community in the development of classic + rather than guessing at what the community wants. I also would imagine the bfd 10 man raid will be rebalanced to level cap in the future than to just die forever in first phase sod. But we will see.
i think they won´t bring freshs after the Season (or even a new Season), becouse they can simply bring an addon / new Server with our SOD Characters where they remove the Rune system (Runes that work / are loved will become a normal talent in the talent Tree / something you learn from your class trainer). I mean it wouldn´t be something new (remember Artifact Weapons and similiar things) , hell they could even change the runs mid season with the prefix: "only applys to Items with ilvl X / only usable till lvl X"
Classic players have been begging for a shake up and when they get it half of them condemn it. I don’t think they know what they want lol. Good on bliz for shooting a shot, I hope it works out- am excite!
classic players asked for a few key changes and improvements to specs and classes along with more vanilla content. blizzard said "ok" and throw in tank specs for 11/10 classes and healing for mages like what. its like asking for a candy bar and then someone pours a cauldron of molten caramel over your head. they got the recipe correct, but the dosage is out of control lol
@@ZugzugZugzugson or being taken to the candy shop? More options isn’t a bad thing and it’s a chance for ppl to go nuts with the new tools. When WoW first came out there was plenty of talk from the old-head Everquesters about how the game was a joke and look how that turned out!
I really hope SoD is just the litmus test for whether developing new Classic+ content is worth it. I like the idea of runes to unlock classes playing roles they normally wouldn't, and using talents/spells from future versions seems like an easier way to test if it changes the meta than developing a whole new system. I want something like that for Classic+, but always saw it as more of an involved quest chain that lets you unlock portions of a skill tree from another class, or change your class into something your race can't normally play. I think that would allow devs to add in quests in areas that aren't explored as frequently, and also mix up useful stats on items.
same thought, but only difference between us here is: i always thought it would be a great idea to get new Tombs (similiar to tranquelised shot) in Raids or dungeons. But yeah i think runes are similiar to my idea
I agree with your comment on they should fix existing specs and classes and add content. I mean, just giving taunt to prot pala is a huge step. We don't need rogue tanks. Kinda kills the class fantasy also IMO. And as you said, some new dungeons also. I don't think we need higher level cap either, even if they add another end game raid. I also have an open mind about SoD and will play it. But I hope they make another version of classic+
I really hope they finish the rogue questline… always bugged me that you put in all the effort and in didn’t continue. Good opportunity to get a rogue BiS rune maybe?
I think it's a genius move to do this from Blizzard. It's a way to take a new spin on an already loved game. There is no one forcing people to play this new experimental version of the game and i'm assuming the old classic servers are still going to be available? So either way it opens up the avenue for players to enjoy their favorite version of WoW in a new setting with new content. Some people simply enjoy the pacing of classic wow compared to Retails faster paced playstyle. So giving these players ways of expanding on the classic era version of WoW's fundamental mechanical functionality is a really good thing imo.
Imo it looks fun and I’m excited for it, at worst it’s going to be a good testing ground for what works well and what should be included in a more traditional style classic +
I personally really like mage healers and rogue/warlock tanks. One of the most difficult things to do is find a tank or healer for groups. You can waste hours trying to do this. Making some of the most played classes have the opportunity to cover these highly needed roles is great. Imagine this, you can play a priest and you don't HAVE to be a healer every single time. You can be a warrior and not tank 100% of dungeons. You can be a paladin and do more than cast flash of light. Making ret and shadow viable means nothing because everyone needs you to heal in regular classic but now you have a chance. What a cool idea that now you can have a warrior, priest, mage, rogue, hunter. And instead of the same ol same ol you can have a rogue tank, mage heal, shadow priest for great off heals and damage, and a warrior DPS to offtank some adds that slip by. And the hunter can mulitshot and wipe the group the way god intended.
The big thing to remember is that we still have vanilla WoW no changes. I think it's important to really mix it up in the new seasons to try and rejuvenate the system and the meta. It's a temporary shake-up and if it flops all of these classic Andy's can just go back to vanilla. If it's great then we have a bunch of new content for vanilla which is great IMO.
Biggest issue for me is they are putting player power behind what is supposed to be a fun exploration element. If I know I want to be using my cool ability that means I’m going to look up online how to get it as fast as possible and not wait to run across it naturally. These items are now part of your toolkit to be compete.
It is possible the lower level raids will help increase leveling speed as the level cap goes up. They may not be the endgame later. But, they will help get you to endgame faster.
Good video first and foremost. A few thinks I want to say. First the bulk of the player base that are not on board fall into one of two camps. They either have been playing classic for 4 years and do not want all that time to be wasted or they have a credit card attached to their account and do not want there money to be wasted. The other thing I hope they do is set it up so the rune system is only obtainable from the new raids so they don't die. This is not unheard of for classic, zg enchants, bis items from MC, higher skills from AQ 20.
Im excited for the chaos and bugs that will come out from the no testing/beta for it. Sounds like a blast and i look at this as a way to play classic in a non hardcore way to me it seems like having a 25 cap is a way for them to have players willingly give it a try without having to split the playerbase from the already 3 different versions of wow people are playing with vanilla wotlk and retail something to do while you wait for your raid for the week or something. It would be cool is when they raise the level cap they rebalance and raise the difficulty of all those raids previously to have a bunch of raida to do at end game
I think its a good idea and I appreciate them going out and trying something new and a bit risky. I am pleasantly surprised. Seeing more classes be viable will be awesome and if people don't like the rogue tank mage healer wonky builds then they can just change things up in the future. It seems like they should be able to be flexible with it since the rune system is not super complicated. The fact that it only goes to level 25 for now will make it easier to try different classes so I don't think I will run out of content very quickly, but people who don't like to play multiple alts might run out of content.
imagine if they dropped the concept of threat, and just had mobs use AI to most efficiently fight the players. Now you would have mage tanks as well, and priest tanks. Bosses should actively target glass cannons, as any rational entity in the entire world.
I couldn't agree more. I want some minor class rebalancing and new content, not a complete overhaul of the entire game that makes it feel like a different thing. I also agree about the lack of content in SoD - what am I supposed to do at lvl 25 for a month or more - I'd rather just be able to level freely all the way to 60 with the new rune system than be stuck doing some BFD raid for weeks on end - put that development effort into endgame.
I think its a good idea to spend development resources on a lvl 25 raid, 35 raid, 45 raid and so on - paired with level caps. We might get more seasons of Discovery and Classic+ in the future - The level caps make people actually enjoy all the content and zones in the game, instead of everyone just rushing and boosting to level 60 and end-game directly. I think its great, to be honest.
I feel like the level caps and low level raids are designed to be carried over to seasons of classic+, there used to be a thriving level 20 F2P twink meta on retail so I think as long as it feels like the time is long enough to be worth farming BiS gear it'll work well. The runes and other stuff seems to be borrowed from the Ascension WoW private server, not too big a fan of them and can't wait for rogue tank to wipe the raid by fat fingering vanish.
And it's okay if warlocks are the worst tanks. Or if rogues are the worst tanks. It's okay to be the worst tank, okay? -Paladin players
Bear tank: “Hold my beer I’ll tr..”[SMACK😵!!!]
Misdirect on bear brings back such fond memories.
well, someone has to be the worst, and i'll be somewhat pissed if that "worst" is NOT rogue, warlock or hunter, and instead happens to be shaman, druid, paladin or warrior.
people were asking for shaman and pala tanks for classic+, not effin warlocks and rogues wtf.
@@ZugzugZugzugson Yeah I'd like to see them as 5man viable, but not raid viable, but we'll see I'm not making any judgments yet
@@ZugzugZugzugsoni mostly agree since I'm going shaman tank but people have always wanted warlock tanks because there is a fight in AQ where you need a warlock to tank and it's always been that way so I've heard people talk about how they enjoyed that part of AQ the most and would love to be a demo lock tank. The rogue thing not so much, I'd prefer if they made the tank talents for rogue more of a pirate/swashbuckler with high threat abilities able to tank for small group stuff or maybe be a handy OT in dungeons when the main tank is struggling or something. So like more of a support tank but not a true tank. Thematically that would be pretty cool but I just really like pirates 😂
I feel like they were in super deep into development when making SoD and over the last 6 months they saw the want for a classic +. My tin foil hat idea is that the lvl cap is there to buy then more time to actually integrate the classic plus aspect the higher you get in levels. I’m optimistic and feel it’s gonna be a lot of fun. Plus we can die again lol. Finally
I believe it could be your thoughts. But I also feel like it’s just a glorified beta for later game content while they polish up later game content like you said. See what works and what doesn’t as this is just a season meaning one day server will be brought down. Which leads me to think they will make a real classic + next year or maybe reveal that they are working on the classic + most people envisioned. Either way I’m pretty pumped to check out the new rune system! Cheers
I hope this is true, i would not be suprised if they got 3 more raids ready i also hope for some real new content/quests between phases, maybe some kind of pvp with rewards in other case they will be no reason to play early phases after hitting lvl cap, 1 10-man raid per 3 days is not enough imho, content is thing that concern me most
it's like when they released the vanilla classic beta and the cap was 30. sod is a beta
i had the same thoughts. its easy for them to pump out a quick dungeon into raid conversion for alot of classic dungies so easy couple months of dev time which hopefully means theyre putting in any extra time for kara crypts or uldum or maybe hyjal furbolg raid? IDK. . so many speculations i remain optimistic
I think a lot of people assume that its a time biding mechanism, but I think its a way to both force longevity of engagement (fresh every month basically) and also to make the experience savory for players. Without level banding, they would have spent a ton of time developing content for the game and 90% of it would have been rushed through by players who want to “stay with the pack” and rush to 60. This is a phenomenal way to create a phased approach to leveling so that everyone is on the same playing field throughout the leveling experience, without ruining the game. Now you minmax at checkpoints instead of saying “low level content wont matter in 10 levels so im just going to find the most efficient way to get exp and rush through the game.”
I think a point almost every UA-camr/streamer that’s talked about their thoughts on classic plus has missed, or at least didn’t make an impactful enough statement on is the class revamping in regards to adding more roles. How many tanks were there in vanilla….1! Sure Druids could offtank or do dungeons, but if you wanted to tank, you were warrior or you picked a different role. How many warriors would be in a 40 man MC run? 20+!!! Because they were the top dps by a large margin, no one played demo lock, no one played ret pally, no one played combat rogue….these changes give every class so many more options to experience the game and makes every group comp that much better because of it.
If you want to experiment in a way where you may make something OP (changing ANYTHING), you really need it to not count for a bit. You need the ability to mulligan. This is them throwing everything out there, from Warlock tanks to Mage healer, to let them see what's the WORST shit they should never do again. Don't worry, we're gonna tell them. And we're also gonna tell them what we like. And that goes into the next iteration, a "real Classic+"
Trueeee. Really reminds me of the PoE approach of the league introducing a new mechanic and after it will maybe go core. In essence the SoD is kinda the PTR?
6:28 Nice Thumbnail @SaysafeTV, i feel like i recognize it somehow :D✌️
yes the traditional wow experience of 39 warriors and 1 rogue,,,,,super fun
I'm interested in SoD, and I think some of the wilder changes could make for a fun time. It's like taking a week's vacation to Disneyland but people are treating it like you're moving into Disneyland. WOW's community treats the game like it's a sacred relic and that they're the priests. You're not allowed to touch it in a way they say you can't, and they fight over who is allowed to say what
You treating it like a disneyland vacation is exactly why tourists like you end up ruining the game. You shouldn't vote on something if you're going to enjoy it a bit then bail to play your favorite mode after ruining the version of a game that a certain demographic enjoy.
Especially since this is supposed to cater to classic -era players, not retail / cata andies who are just bored of their version cause it's literally braindead outside of raid logging or sitting in queue in a major city.
@@wholawl I don't know how you can sit there and call future versions of the game boring when you've played the same bloody game for 20 years and believe it's something sacred.
If all I played was Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time since it came out and Nintendo made an alternate version to play, I'd at least be excited to try it out, especially if it was going to be part of the foundation of a sequel/expansion.
Vanilla is good, and I can see why people like it, but its not immaculate. Hell I think TBC is better than Vanilla.
Love they're willing to experiment, but now there's no excuse to not fix the problems;
Faction balance, boosts, multi-box, bots, gold buyers, lack of world PvP, raids designed around meta builds and addons, obsolete low-level zones, new expansion makes old content obsolete, lack of community building such as REQUIRED group content outside sweaty raids, etc.
At this point it just looks like they're adding retail gameplay to Classic's world.
- Rune: Damage + X
- Monster: Health + X
- Gameplay = Same
I would love to see things like..
- Runes add penalty with buff. Like "Grants extra swing, but health reduced to 50%". This makes balancing easier and players must weigh the benefits/penalties of each rune.
- Forced faction balance. Before character creation, the player has to select the faction. Only servers with
I hope they do a Gnomer and SM raid at the same time.
Think of walking up to SM and the STAIR ENTRANCE is a raid portal and when we enter, the whole lobby door area is a raid. Clear each wing to get the keys for the doors. 100% ready for it.
I heard that they're increasing the damage of all mobs to compensate for the increased player power, but their health stays the same. The idea is that you should feel stronger, but the world should still feel dangerous so you can't just pull 5 mobs at a time because then you're gonna die. But not increasing their health also sounds a bit problematic. Some of the new abilities will allow you to pretty much one-shot mobs before they get a chance to hit you.
Bosses need more health for shure.. but mobs i thinks its ok if the die a little bit faster from 50- 60 mobs take tolong to die.
A lot of those one shot abilities are going to have decent CDs or require large mana investments though so you won't be able to do it constantly or will have to spend a decent amount of time drinking to recover mana to do it again. I'm okay with this.
If anything id like the questing world to be more dangerous but with increased xp and drop rewards .
If this is the direction we are going then it's already been done, I hated leveling whole being super OP.
I am excited about this. I think they nailed the reason classic doesn't feel as classic like.. Because every detail has been min/maxed to infinity. There is no mystery or divergence if you miss spend 2 talent points you can be kicked from a raid. It is just not what made us love the game. So discovering new things and play styles is exactly the perfect take on what we want even if we didn't realize we wanted it. I have high hopes.
Yeah I feel this. I was a ret paladin wearing a mix of healing gear and a shield and sword at one point in 2005. Then I started realising wtf I needed to start looking at other players and wowhead. Wasn't just me, so many people in my raid groups, we'd die as soon as a boss pulled or we'd all be oom in a minute. Now playing classic, every man and their dog is a dps warrior
I am excited. Seeing Stormwind or Ironforge filled with lvl 25s sounds fun. I think lvl 40 will be the most fun bracket, with people getting their mounts and lvl 40 talents.
Everybody wanted Turtle WoW , but we got Ascension Wow . sadge
The lvl 25 cap is awesome in my mind. Im with you about the mage healer rogue tank etc but still will be cool I think the end goal is for lvl 60 classic plus with a few lvl cap stops on the way to give time to adjust to new metas and see where to land in regards to lvl 60 end game classic plus.
keep pumping them videos, we all love them!
What people want for WoW plus is the private server Turtle WoW with a focus on refining classes and finishing old content that never came out as well as expanding content consistent with the lore. What you are getting is private server Ascension that throws the class rules out of the window and just goes with whatever change sounds fun in concept.
I’m stoked! My only worry is they pop in a last minute WoW token or level boost
Out of all the reactions to SoD I'vee seen, this is definitely the one I feel the closest to. Surprised, concerned but cautiously optimistic.
Love the content. Keep up the work. I would like to see you on Whatever Podcast again next year.
I think in practice it'll be fun, having all the runes unlocked right away in the blizzcon demo was overwhelming but doing all sorts of fun new content to slowly unlock them will be different :)
The best part is it's experimental. They can easily tweak or tone down changes. Being that they're reusing lots of content/code, it should be easy for them to do this.
I don't think that you had acces to all the runes in the Blizzcon demo
They didn't need to go out on a limb, the community told them exactly what they wanted. New content under the classic mechanics, that's it. Not XP Boosts, not a new magic system, not extensive class changes - that just sounds like retail. Count me out.
100% agree
yep, blizzard is incompetent even when told what to do. Anyone can see it for what it is, classic RETAIL
If you watch Crix's interview...they started on this project when they released Classic in 2019.
I think its a cool idea. My only fear is the lose of "Class" Identity that we all love about Classic. The problem I've always had with Retail is that all the classes feel the same with minor differences.
And instead of a Mage healer, they should have made a melee "battle Mage" with summons and stuff.
if the cause for worry is losing class identity the last solution would be enabling more classes to tank and heal.
shamans and paladin getting tank specs alongside druid and warrior should have been all they changed. that way both factions have 3 tank classes.
when it comes to enhancement and retri dps, a few key fixes would be all it takes to make them viable as dpsers.
for enhancement, a way to regain mana and a cooldown reduction on stormstrike would be a good first step, a cleave ability would also be welcome, like a whirlwind that does elemental (wind) damage instead of physical damage, perhaps with a guaranteed WF proc on the primary target of the ability would go a long way.
for retri, crusader strike and a cleave would be a good first step (kudos to blizzard for getting both of these right on the first try with seal of the martyr and crusader strike).
battle (melee) mage would be really cool as well, i'm sure people have already posted plenty of cool ideas for spells for a spec like this.
rogues should have just gotten some aoe abilities and new poisons along with their shadow step.
warlocks could get a niche anti-magic tanking that wasn't a fullblown sustained tank spec (at least outside of metamorph form).
hunters getting a melee spec is enough in and of itself tbh.
moonkin getting their mana issues fixed (oomkin) would have been enough to make them viable and interesting since they never really got a chance in vanilla.
shadow priests getting some buffs to their mana battery role alongside their "mirror image" spell and a slight dps buff would be enough to fix them.
i get that blizzard is going above and beyond these simple fixes to the classes in the game in order to get people hyped, but having so many classes able to tank and heal is not really what anyone asked for.
@@ZugzugZugzugson Problem is, you have to solve the tank / Healer shortage and this wouldn´t work with just "few changes" becouse People don´t like Warri tanks (hell i never got into Warrior as a tank, even when i had to play one myself. Something that changed with Paladin, but even this wasn´t the perfect one for me which lead to me changing my Main to a DH at Legion... ) and on the other hand the rogue tank seems to be more a 5 Man dungeon tank nothing more (same for the Mage healer, becouse he has to use Arcane and you can´t simply ignore Arcane resistent bosses in later raids [when they bring new ones] )
@@kylehofmeister6906battle mage would be just too OP
I understand what you mean mechanically but reading through the runes actually gives me a feeling of more class identity, especially in specialization which speaking of which the talents not changing is a good safeguard.
something fun to try and fuck around in and giving them more ammo showing people want classic+ and getting that eventually sounds good to me especially with finding out what works and what doesnt, hope im not being too optimistic
When I think of classic plus I think of what classic could have been reimagined to be. SoD is the place to trial that and to see what people like and don’t like. It’s to explore all the ‘“what ifs”. What was interesting to me is I thought your point of limited development time. I completely agree with that. With limited time they need to make sure what they make will work for a real classic plus in the future. This is the testing grounds for that. I don’t think it was realistic for them to create new zones, create real new 25 or 40 man raids with the limited amount of development time they have. Great video though!
Judging by the math, 1/3 of the community is upset. It is only the warrior rogue mage warlock mains Who are upset about SOD, they just want the SAME solved meta game where THEY are the best. We already got that, it’s definitely time for a new thing!
I like the idea of non pigeon holed classes into certain roles in order to raid. The wide range of choices now lets people play the flavor of class they like while in a Classic era version of WoW. I think there will be a repeatability of those older raids even at higher level eventually. This also feels like this is Classic + Beta test to send it and see what sticks. They could add runes to Classic WoW as plus content if we say uncovered them in an Uldum Patch that opens up these new class augmenting runes that are a there for the players to discover like in SOD. Could be really fun.
Feel the same, lot of this comes out of left field. However I would say Blizz could have just announced cata and retail at blizzcon and never bothered with any form of classic+, so for that Im looking forward to trying SoD and see where it goes
bro my hype got killed so hard when they announced more retail and cata classic, and then they caught me off guard completely with the classic+ announcement. what a rollercoaster.
Well said, liked the back half of your video especially
100% agree with Staysafe here. I think he speaks for a lot of us old Classic fans. Personally, I didn't think that many people in that subreddit were that positive about Season of Discovery. Everything that was laid off towards the end of this video about low hanging fruits was what I wanted to see in Season of Discovery. But instead, Blizzard put in the time to make many changes. It makes classes lose their identity if a rogue / warlock can tank and a mage can heal...
I disagree because you don't have to tank as a rogue, shaman, lock, or heal as mage because the other specs are soooo good. For example I can actually play affliction and destro and feel good about my class identity. If you want to mop the thawed ice off the floor as a mage why would you want to heal? If I'm feeling elemental on sham why would I tank if I can sit back and LAVA BURST? it's all on how we want to play and personify those identities, and it won't be the wild west of flavors with talents unchanged and limited slots for runes.
I don't think seeing other people play your class differently will spoil your experience, I would argue that it will actually make your unique identity stand out more, no longer bound by that nostalgic meta.
Today you have to either hate or love things. You need to pick a camp. You can't just try a thing out and be the judge yourself. Then decide if you want to keep doing it, or go on to another thing. That would be insane. And TBH even if you hate a thing.. make sure you keep consuming content about said thing and tell everyone that doesn't hate it why they are wrong.
As someone who struggled to find enjoyment in classic due to the way the classes felt so simple, it's compelling for me to want to try this season of classic. I like the idea of there being a bit more meat to the class specs. And my personal favorite, shaman tanking, is an absolute home run for bringing me to classic. With the added bonus that Ele get's Lava Burst. I can chunk meatballs in Classic WoW. That's dope.
Are you from Oregon?
If so hello from Medford, Oregon!
I think the only thing holding this back for most people is the ham-fisted way new abilities and content is being added. If the same idea of adding onto unfinished classes and specs was achieved through more flavorful means and talent tree tweaking I don't think there would be anywhere near as many people against Season of Discovery. Also, it's time for people to understand that Classic+ is not Classic nor should it be minor changes, you will never have the initial experience of 2004 or 2019 again. The same way that OSRS isn't 2007Scape from a content and balance standpoint that needs to be the mindset going into Season of Discovery and Classic+ if it were to happen.
And here's a bit of a sacred cow roast, the way that Warlock, Hunter, Druid, and Paladin turned out in Vanilla and Classic was not ingenious class design and fantasy but the result of muddled and unfinished ideas. Hunters hilariously didn't even talent trees until after the Beta and that shows even through to 1.12. So I say bring on Tanking Shamans, Rogues, Warlocks, and Priests. Let Arcane mage become a Mistweaver, make melee Hunters viable, and make gear better itemized for every spec. Nerf Engineering into the ground and add talent trees to professions. Rebalance all the activated racial abilities for niche PvP application and distribute more +weapon skill racials. Make those level 25, 40, and 50 raids into Heroic 5 mans for level 60s.
What would be crazy is if they do season of discovery like 3 times and then release it as classic plus. Onion progression > vertical / horizontal progression.
My take is that whilst we have leveling caps it's guna get meme'd on, but once we're at level 60 and people are doing MC, BWL, AQ or anything new ie; Kara Crypts, people who didn't like it or want it guna have that FOMO.
It definitely wasn't what I expected, but it may turn out to be better!
What if they take all these new leveling raids and give us a scaled up 60 leveled version of those raids so they aren’t wasted over time
Played an oomkin in SOM and they were fine. Might try another again in SOD.
It's a lot different than the classic+ that I would build, but there a lot of pros to making a lot of changes. All of the classic content, like guides and such, need to get remade. It's a huge opportunity for creators and a lot of entertainment for people to dig into. Imagine all of the new gold making strategies (solo dungeons, etc) just waiting to be found, for instance.
You pretty much nailed my thoughts. I wont be playing SoD, I'll stick to Hardcore. Also, dont know if you caught this but they are gonna add a Self Found mode, but to existing hardcore servers. What's the point then??? I really think the Classic team has lost the pulse. I don't get it.
I think this could be very, very fun but I can definitely see why there's such a divide. I personally think mage healers and warlock tanks is a bit over the top. Looking forward to trying it out though!
Warlock tanks isn´t new (they even existed a short time in the Vanilla Beta) and Mage Healers depends on how later raids will look like (becouse it is Healing through Arcane damage only)
Awesome video, spot on commentary
I agree with your analogy of cutting down the classic+ tree and throwing up a new one. It would have been enough to raise up the meme specs, the shadow priest, the retribution paladin, the balance Druid, etc, to give them new itemization / tier gear. To add new leveling dungeons, perhaps a new zone. These would have been tasteful changes in line with what people know and love.
As far as the idea of building content that no one will do after two months, I think a way around that is to scale those dungeons up when the next cap is introduced. So at level 40, scale up blackfathom deeps so that it is still content that can be done.
This launching as a 'seasonal' server is a good idea. No mater how much it gets messed up itll get 'reset'. Excited to play around with it. Im also excited to try a classic where we arnt pigeon holed into 1 role per class, and only warrior tanks etc.
Season of Discovery is not for me unfortunately, I'll give it a try but don't intend to stay long and probably go back to Era or other versions. But I'm happy others are excited.
IMHO this is just a beta for classic +, the same way SoM hardcore buff was a beta for hardcore server release. I think they keep the runes people liked as new abilities for a permanent classic + and throw away the rest. Or at least that's what I hope, because the way it sits it feels like a low effort modded P server, not a blizzard release.
Guys Will be there Arena in Sod ?
I'm super looking forward to SoD, as someone that hasn't played wow since a few weeks into Dragonflight. I love all the things they are adding and I like the level cap at 25. Gives a super short level up process, so it's casual feeling. Sure, streams and others will no live the content and will probably finish everything in a few days. But it's still fine for others that can't game for 8+ hours a day too. Maybe it'll be a week before I get 25 and can raid. I enjoy the rune system to mix up the classes a bit, glad they are changing things up to make things fresh. I've seen people get bad because Blizz isn't innovating but here they are using imagination to add stuff to classes and people still get mad. What are they actually looking for? I haven't played wow in over a year but will be giving SoD a try.
My favorite way to level has always been to have decent if not the best gear that I can have while I do so. If SoD will force people to stick around and farm me gear that will make me stronger out there in the free world, I’m all for it. Def going to play on a pvp server as well
great perspective. i agree with you on most points, its not what we wanted or expected. It might be a little too much. i guess ill give it a go while the hype is real
hi staysafe, i don't know if you'll read this comment but i want to add my thoughts as a player who enjoyed WoW the most during classic launch.
IF the devs implement changes, i'd like them to be:
regarding classes, while i'm open to trying out new stuff, in reality i'd preffer if the changes were only applied to certain specs to actually make them viable to play, and leave the ones that work mostly untouched. so that means no mage healers, no warlock or rogue tanks. the only class i'd be ok with being changed to a tank would be enh shamans, since they are analogous to paladins but on the horde side.
also, classes should remain specific and shouldn't be able to do anything and everything.
more important than classes though i think are the changes to the gameplay and the world.
i think releasing the leveling through phases is a genius idea. leveling is one of the best parts of classic and this system makes people take their time playing the game instead of rushing to 60.
also, reworking dungeons into entry level/leveling raids sounds awesome. i am very excited for the prospect of a scarlet monastery or a BRD raid.
lastly, i'd like to see changes to the world in accordance to the spirit of classic but taking into account player power and experience. because lets face it, the game is kinda "solved" and that's a problem. the world needs to regain a sense of danger and mystery and that for me is a make or break for Classic +.
an easy way to do this is increasing mob health and damage, but i'd like for the systems to be reworked deeper and further than that. rework and double down on resistances for example. things like werewolves being weak to silver weapons, undead being resistant to shadow and weak to light, armored mobs being resistant to slashing weapons but weak to blunt, etc. perhaps make new types of curses and diseases as permanent debuffs that stay on your character until you get dispelled or cured. small changes like that add to the whole feel of an "RPG".
Mark me in the excited camp and can't wait to see where it goes.
It’s called Blackfathom DEPTHS brother, but yeah solid video overall. I’m personally stoked
You pretty much summed up my thoughts exactly.
I think that the scope of the raid changes are mostly boss changes. I don’t think the lay out and environment is different. Which probably severely cuts down on development time.
Love the idea im apprehensive about the homologous nature of the rune system. But ill wait to see how it plays all around im excited to give it a try
I think we should be commending Blizzard for taking some risks in recent times they have been notorious for taking the safe route and not being creative. Now they finally do and people are mad. I have NFI how to please these people. Personally I can't wait, the raids will still get use when people are leveling new characters. A new raid is easier to make than a new zone. Blizzard is listening and ready to make adjustments along the way with all the new abilities added. I only wish they would use a poll system for the community to decide things.
This video is much nicer than how the actual stream went KEKW
Very good video! Honestly i think they should take a bunch of zones from retail WoW and make a 3rd continent, add some of the none furry races to it with a bunch of leveling zones
Pre 2019 Classic I think i would have gone for the smaller changes. After playing classic for years (and quitting in TBC) I am happy they went for some bolder changes to start things off. Otherwise I dont think I would be as excited to come back.
Exactly
Completely agree. If "classic +" just meant that ret and prot pallies, spriests, boomies, non heal shamans, and maybe hunters get minor buffs then honestly thats way too boring. Warriors would still most likely be on top and not much would change besides maybe 3 or 4 raid spots per raid are different classes. At that point who cares? I dont want to prog all the way through Naxx all over again just to do some new fifth raid that might come a year from now, give me big shakeups. And thats what they decided to do. Couldnt be happier.
I felt targeted when he said shadow priest
We dont care about those 35% players. More loot for us
I am so pumped for SoD. Classic + meant something different to everyone you ask. This is Blizzards version and I’m excited to try it out!
PS I tried the demo at blizzcon and it was hella fun. Went thru the line twice to try two different classes
What will happen to this characters when season ends?
I don’t have an issue with mage heals, druid* Windfury totem, rogue tanks, lock tanks, etc - it means horde will be able to utilize Tranquil Air; there will be less warriors overall, and there will be more options for tanks and healers. I feel this is all good for a Classic+ scenario.
Button line: I asked for shaman tank, I got shaman tank, I’m thrilled ❤️ Dual-Wield shaman tank for elemental fights sounds awesome
Your points about sod being a litmus test for classic + caught my attention. I don’t think blizz is using sod to test whether or not to do classic +, they have already committed substantial resources to revamping dungeons into raids and will more likely launch + servers in the future than not.
Sod is just a way to test which specs, skills, metas to include in classic + servers when that time comes, and which metas were poorly received. To test these ideas in a non permanent seasonal timeline gives them a way to gather community feedback rather than release classic + in an unfinished state and have it be poorly received.
To me this is blizzs way of engaging the classic community in the development of classic + rather than guessing at what the community wants.
I also would imagine the bfd 10 man raid will be rebalanced to level cap in the future than to just die forever in first phase sod. But we will see.
i think they won´t bring freshs after the Season (or even a new Season), becouse they can simply bring an addon / new Server with our SOD Characters where they remove the Rune system (Runes that work / are loved will become a normal talent in the talent Tree / something you learn from your class trainer). I mean it wouldn´t be something new (remember Artifact Weapons and similiar things) , hell they could even change the runs mid season with the prefix: "only applys to Items with ilvl X / only usable till lvl X"
Classic players have been begging for a shake up and when they get it half of them condemn it. I don’t think they know what they want lol. Good on bliz for shooting a shot, I hope it works out- am excite!
classic players asked for a few key changes and improvements to specs and classes along with more vanilla content.
blizzard said "ok" and throw in tank specs for 11/10 classes and healing for mages like what.
its like asking for a candy bar and then someone pours a cauldron of molten caramel over your head.
they got the recipe correct, but the dosage is out of control lol
@@ZugzugZugzugson or being taken to the candy shop? More options isn’t a bad thing and it’s a chance for ppl to go nuts with the new tools. When WoW first came out there was plenty of talk from the old-head Everquesters about how the game was a joke and look how that turned out!
I really hope SoD is just the litmus test for whether developing new Classic+ content is worth it. I like the idea of runes to unlock classes playing roles they normally wouldn't, and using talents/spells from future versions seems like an easier way to test if it changes the meta than developing a whole new system. I want something like that for Classic+, but always saw it as more of an involved quest chain that lets you unlock portions of a skill tree from another class, or change your class into something your race can't normally play. I think that would allow devs to add in quests in areas that aren't explored as frequently, and also mix up useful stats on items.
same thought, but only difference between us here is: i always thought it would be a great idea to get new Tombs (similiar to tranquelised shot) in Raids or dungeons. But yeah i think runes are similiar to my idea
I agree with your comment on they should fix existing specs and classes and add content. I mean, just giving taunt to prot pala is a huge step. We don't need rogue tanks. Kinda kills the class fantasy also IMO.
And as you said, some new dungeons also. I don't think we need higher level cap either, even if they add another end game raid. I also have an open mind about SoD and will play it. But I hope they make another version of classic+
I really hope they finish the rogue questline… always bugged me that you put in all the effort and in didn’t continue. Good opportunity to get a rogue BiS rune maybe?
I bet you'll try all the classes with all the new runes etc ;)
I think it's a genius move to do this from Blizzard.
It's a way to take a new spin on an already loved game.
There is no one forcing people to play this new experimental version of the game and i'm assuming the old classic servers are still going to be available?
So either way it opens up the avenue for players to enjoy their favorite version of WoW in a new setting with new content.
Some people simply enjoy the pacing of classic wow compared to Retails faster paced playstyle.
So giving these players ways of expanding on the classic era version of WoW's fundamental mechanical functionality is a really good thing imo.
Imo it looks fun and I’m excited for it, at worst it’s going to be a good testing ground for what works well and what should be included in a more traditional style classic +
I personally really like mage healers and rogue/warlock tanks. One of the most difficult things to do is find a tank or healer for groups. You can waste hours trying to do this. Making some of the most played classes have the opportunity to cover these highly needed roles is great.
Imagine this, you can play a priest and you don't HAVE to be a healer every single time. You can be a warrior and not tank 100% of dungeons. You can be a paladin and do more than cast flash of light. Making ret and shadow viable means nothing because everyone needs you to heal in regular classic but now you have a chance.
What a cool idea that now you can have a warrior, priest, mage, rogue, hunter. And instead of the same ol same ol you can have a rogue tank, mage heal, shadow priest for great off heals and damage, and a warrior DPS to offtank some adds that slip by. And the hunter can mulitshot and wipe the group the way god intended.
SoD should be seen as a pilot for an eventual "Classic+" so don't worry if some of the experimental variables seem poorly tuned
The big thing to remember is that we still have vanilla WoW no changes. I think it's important to really mix it up in the new seasons to try and rejuvenate the system and the meta. It's a temporary shake-up and if it flops all of these classic Andy's can just go back to vanilla. If it's great then we have a bunch of new content for vanilla which is great IMO.
I have a feeling it will flop. Just because there is a bunch of hype for it doesn’t mean it will be good especially long term.
season of ascension .05 love it.
I think the gameplay meta is going to be getting lvl 25 bis gear and playing alts, since getting alts to max is so easy.
i thought they said you can do the same raid again at max level every level cycle im pretty sure
You are 100% correct, sadly it's impossible to explain this to retail-brains.
Biggest issue for me is they are putting player power behind what is supposed to be a fun exploration element. If I know I want to be using my cool ability that means I’m going to look up online how to get it as fast as possible and not wait to run across it naturally.
These items are now part of your toolkit to be compete.
OMFG I LITERALLY DIED AT THAT INTRO. Its cool bro, me too. Me too.
It could be that the low lvl raids will scale with lvl cap?
Great video. Hopefully they can execute.
It is possible the lower level raids will help increase leveling speed as the level cap goes up. They may not be the endgame later. But, they will help get you to endgame faster.
Good video first and foremost. A few thinks I want to say.
First the bulk of the player base that are not on board fall into one of two camps. They either have been playing classic for 4 years and do not want all that time to be wasted or they have a credit card attached to their account and do not want there money to be wasted.
The other thing I hope they do is set it up so the rune system is only obtainable from the new raids so they don't die. This is not unheard of for classic, zg enchants, bis items from MC, higher skills from AQ 20.
I’m thinking of playing shadow , for the first time in life. And I’m thinking it’s gonna be way under rep’d, plus disc is gonna be op with barrier
Im excited for the chaos and bugs that will come out from the no testing/beta for it. Sounds like a blast and i look at this as a way to play classic in a non hardcore way to me it seems like having a 25 cap is a way for them to have players willingly give it a try without having to split the playerbase from the already 3 different versions of wow people are playing with vanilla wotlk and retail something to do while you wait for your raid for the week or something. It would be cool is when they raise the level cap they rebalance and raise the difficulty of all those raids previously to have a bunch of raida to do at end game
Can’t wait, was a lot of fun to play at blizzcon
I'm cautiously optimistic. Hopefully things go well and they build iteratively on it.
I think its a good idea and I appreciate them going out and trying something new and a bit risky. I am pleasantly surprised. Seeing more classes be viable will be awesome and if people don't like the rogue tank mage healer wonky builds then they can just change things up in the future. It seems like they should be able to be flexible with it since the rune system is not super complicated. The fact that it only goes to level 25 for now will make it easier to try different classes so I don't think I will run out of content very quickly, but people who don't like to play multiple alts might run out of content.
i am too... and they releasing a fresh so ppl need to stop complaining
imagine if they dropped the concept of threat, and just had mobs use AI to most efficiently fight the players.
Now you would have mage tanks as well, and priest tanks. Bosses should actively target glass cannons, as any rational entity in the entire world.
Im alright with it so far. Only issue i have is that some runes have that retail touch, like to flashy for classic.
I couldn't agree more. I want some minor class rebalancing and new content, not a complete overhaul of the entire game that makes it feel like a different thing. I also agree about the lack of content in SoD - what am I supposed to do at lvl 25 for a month or more - I'd rather just be able to level freely all the way to 60 with the new rune system than be stuck doing some BFD raid for weeks on end - put that development effort into endgame.
I'm so excited to try something new! we can always get a vanilla classic fresh in the future!
I always want to see a combat mage. Mages that can do melee attack and spells like in D&D and other fantasy games.
I think its a good idea to spend development resources on a lvl 25 raid, 35 raid, 45 raid and so on - paired with level caps.
We might get more seasons of Discovery and Classic+ in the future - The level caps make people actually enjoy all the content and zones in the game, instead of everyone just rushing and boosting to level 60 and end-game directly. I think its great, to be honest.
Im interested in SoD!
All raids have a shelf life, it is what it is. Im glad to see shaman and rogue tank specs.
I feel like the level caps and low level raids are designed to be carried over to seasons of classic+, there used to be a thriving level 20 F2P twink meta on retail so I think as long as it feels like the time is long enough to be worth farming BiS gear it'll work well. The runes and other stuff seems to be borrowed from the Ascension WoW private server, not too big a fan of them and can't wait for rogue tank to wipe the raid by fat fingering vanish.