Adding 25 curve to the rudder made a world of difference in flying this thing. Can't actually believe I have WAY more control now flying it than I had before. Really shows just how sensitive I had my rudders at. THANK YOU!
Redtail11 1 second ago I have to set all my curves to 45 because how how crappy the HOTAS One is. A deadzone of 8 in all directions for the stick too because it never quite sits in the center. A friggin crime to sell this POS for 100$ if I had spent that much I’d be even more upset but I got it on sale for 60$ so I can’t complain TOO much about how much it sucks.
Wow, said what I wanted to say but better. DCS makes me feel the smooth brain vibes. Every time I learn something new there's like 2 or 3 things at play I also never realized existed....
I cannot call this a layman approach. Trust me, this is the way ACES master any aircraft. They fly with the feel of the aircraft, most newbees fight the aircraft, that's not the way to go. Sense it, just as explained here in this video. It may seem like a layman approach, but I have more than a 1000 flight hours in a ka50, I know this is the way real and seroius pilots master the aircraft, by sensing it.
Amazing skills on display. People that have never flown the DCS Apache have no idea how hard this kind of hovering is! Superb tips! I'll be putting them to good use - thanks for the video! :)
Best teaching for hover I've found! My curves were too steep and yes it helps a lot to remove the helmet visor. My first hover was just so good! Thank's a lot👍
I always visualise it as a pendulum and seen from above. I know its nowhere near the same fidelity, but this allowed me to operate the AH64 in Apache Air Assault on the hardest difficulty settings and I was able to really get the concept of helicopter movement drift etc which helped big time with high speed NOE and quick evasion and hoovering. I havent fired up my new build for DCS module yet but when I do, I would like to think the concepts will transfer nicely. Thanks for making content - such a valuable asset to have real pilots sharing expertise for DCS. I did used to speak to an American Apache pilot online who used to operate tanks before getting selected for Apache. Im not quite sure who it is but may have been Casmo as he was tanks prior - with you also making content on UA-cam it's got me wondering...
really a very informative video. I am new to helicopter flying and have no experience at all. With almost 200 hours in the Hornet, I thought to myself: Hey, try something completely different. so I buy the Apache module for DCS. and I was totally overwhelmed. starting this procedure without trimming was completely new to me and i am surprised how well it worked. my thanks for that. I was really frustrated after so many failed attempts. now I'm going to delve deeper into the apache again. Thanks again and greetings from Germany
With this and your slowing down video you've spelt the basics out better than so many others I've seen in the last few weeks. I did similar by turning IHADSS off a couple of weeks ago, to get a feel for flying, as you can end up hypnotised by it instead of just the heli and the where it is.
Very nice! finally someone mentioning the importance of Hovering by looking outside and using your peripherals! I remember my instructor drilling into my brain: "Look outside at the horizon to stabilize your hover!" and it's the best hover advice I ever got :) also how twitchy helicopter controls are in general compared to fixed wing, gonna need to adjust those curves on my end XD
I can only imagine how much actually being in the helicopter and feeling the movement helps too. Missing that feeling of altitude and attitude change probably makes it way tougher to just sit there and hover in place.
Yes! That’s why VR is so much better than 2D - you don’t quite feel it, but it’s much easier to pick up all of the tiny little aircraft movements that are nearly imperceptible in 2D.
Just a suggestion Check out Dcs world Matt Wagner aka Wags videos on the AH-64D if you want to. he also covers in hovering tutorial , rolling take off transition from hovering to takeoff etc...hovering using near, far objects on runway ,tree line mountains etc...plenty of great tips, instruction out there.
@@Mohkin-demon definitely. Wags made some great videos that I know we all watched before the module was released, but most people haven’t gone back to watch them again.
OMG! thank you so much so simple, so helpful! made the difference between me getting from a to b and coming to a hover (and leaving the rotors and tails scattered all over the field)!!!
in our group dcs we bark a friend who is your colleague real helicopter pilot, and taught us to keep us in hovering exactly as you showed, that is, without looking at the symbolism, but taking references to the outside, then he is teaching us to navigate without intervening on the collective but moving only the cyclic
What a breath of fresh air; someone saying 'Don't use trim'. I fly the DCS Apache, Huey, Mi-8 and never use trim on any of them (I do use a little trim in cruise with the Gaz, but thats a different animal). If you use a non-sprung cyclic you don't need it. One thing in your video I disagree with though, is using a curve on the anti-torque pedals - I started by using a curve but found that when you are hovering you are using a lot of left pedal which takes the rudder position out of the flat part of the curve and on to the steep part which actually makes the pedals MORE sensitive. I found it is much better to remove the curve and reduce the overall saturation which will give a lower sensitivity over the 'hovering' range of the pedal input, but will still give enough tail authority in high load/high wind situations. Great video though - and I have found that I am hovering better by ignoring the IHADSS and relying on visual cues as you describe. Keep the videos coming. Liked and subbed!
Thanks! I haven’t messed around with saturation very much. As I said in the video, I think people should find the amount of curve that works for them, especially if they have pedals with a centering spring or detent.
@@schoolio64D I’m the same as a John in that regard. Curves are good to a point then you gotta be careful not to get the fast swing on the extremes, which is where saturation is better. For example the A4 mod is stupidly twitchy, I have 70% Y sat on pitch and roll and it still has a blazing roll rate but seems to be the sweet spot on pitch, I can go full stick and never tip stall. But as you said.. everyone’s set up is different and individuals must find what works best for their set up. 👏👍😎
@@flightsimulatoradventures7246 Good point. I haven't messed around with saturation really at all, so I might have to experiment with that a bit. Relatively new to DCS but not new to helicopters obviously. 👍
Nice. The coarse part of it I knew already, but it was the fine details that makes the difference for me. The little bit of left cyclic will help me a lot now.
Thank you a lot mate, it made it so much more precise and I now it's way more gentle and works a lot better. I can see that when you behave gently to the helicopter, the helicopter will do what you want and putting restrains (trim) on it just makes it way harder to get it doing what you want.
Hey, thx brother for the video and for the help. I rly appreciate your time in helping simpilots with your knowledge. You have a nice voice to explain and its rly helpful. So thx at all and greets from germany. Keep going and cheers.
I love that you didn't forget to talk about pulling your correction out. I've come to refer to this as "correcting the correction." Make a correction to drift, correct the correction. Bring the input back to that hover control position. Solid litte video
I have been flying the ka50 for quite long and havnt gotten a chance to fly the 64 yet, not getting time. But I love the way this is explained here, it's is actually the way I was planning to try the 64 out. Literally feel how the chopper us going to react with little inputs and external references. Thus is the way to go guys. In the ka50, I never use the auto hover, I simply bring the chopper to a good hover trim woth external reference and that's about it. +1,
Awesome. I'm not sure why the trim thing seem to really discombobulate some community members. Perhaps people assuming the trim was out of whack and needing some sort of mystical centering on take off, rather than as you point out, the physics relating to countering the torque rotations. Definitely takes practice, which is part of the challenge. I have a new respect for those pilots who do work on high tension power lines and other fiddly precision flying jobs in choppers!
I advocated for the trim reset and I understand why; was too easy to trim yourself into an uncommanded roll. Would have been nice to have it at first, but I dont need it either so I get both sides.
I definitely agree with not using trim and removing the IHADSS. For me I only use trim in flight and tend to reset it when setting up an approach to land. Helicopters are hard to hover so keeping it simple to start with is important. Great video. You said left peddle to counter torque caused by main rotor.. I would add then left cyclic to counter translating tendency (or drifting right ) to counter the left peddle input.
@@Thumper770 Trim reset is a poor choice of words since their isn't one. So what I'm actually doing is referencing the flight control indicator and centering the cyclic and peddles then hitting trim. I find this is easiest to do if you lower collective, wait a second then center both at the same time.. this isn't ideal but it's how I do it. It's a combination of lowering collective, aft cyclic, and center peddles, then hit trim. Hope that helps.
I love my TrackIR, but nothing beats VR for hovering. It's so much more natural feeling than anything else, so much easier to be aware of your position in 3D space. I can actually hover without the IHADSS in VR. If I'm sightseeing or practicing navigation I usually use TrackIR since the graphics are nicer, but for the sheer joy of achieving a stable hover with this sensitive bird, VR is a revelation.
Man I'm really appreciating my new control setup. Having that VAB Gunfighter with the extended grip, and the TPR pedals makes a huge difference with this bird.
@@schoolio64D hell yeah it dose. Honestly there needs to be a better midrange in flight sim hardware. I had an old Saitek setup from 2007 to 2020. When it went I tried to replace it with a Thustmaster T.16000 setup. Lol that was an eye opener. So I had the opportunity and decided to go all in. I did use a VKB NXT in the interim and that is a good pice of kit. But the amount of persion you can get out of a quality control setup is amazing.
@@sasquatchycowboy5585 I think the TM Warthog used to be midrange, but the prices skyrocketed a few years ago. I use it and it’s a good setup, but I may upgrade in the next year or two to a Virpil or VKB.
@@schoolio64D I like the cams on the VKB alot. I'm using the aviation soft center with the long extension and a 50 sping. It's almost perfect for helicopters. The first time I flew the Mi-24 with it there was an instant improvement in my ability to hover. The Apache would be a real handful with the NXT. But I'm running the Gunfighter with no curves at all. Between the TPRs and the Gunfighter I can really appreciate its responsiveness. But I can control it without much issue. I can hover pretty easily. The Apache just make the setup really shine. I do use the TM warthog throttle. Shit wasn't cheap at all though. It was my military retirement present. I really think the NXT would be a perfect midrange stick if they could Gen an NXT throttle out. I've never tried Viper, but I hear they are pretty awesome. Still pricey. At least with VKB you can get an NXT and their rudder pedals at a decent price.
The type of controls you're using also make a HUGE difference in not only hovering, but in controlling it in all phases of flight. If you're using the rudder built into your stick you are a a big disadvantage already and it's going top be much harder. If you have slider pedals on the floor, as I do, you're also at a disadvantage, although it's an improvement over the stick rudder that you twist. I got the Thrustmaster stick/throttle/pedal package and I would consider that to be minimum entry level. A good place to begin, but you want to upgrade each as you go further. I would upgrade in this order: pedals, stick and throttle last. The Thrustmaster throttle is actually pretty good. The stick is waaaayyy to stiff for helicopter use, but you can manage. Especially with the trimming features. But practice, like everything else in this world, is the only way you will get better. And don't be discouraged when you test yourself and fail. That too is part of the process. I got good at taking off, flying, shooting up a truck park, then landing. Easy peasy. Then I started putting in targets that shoot back and realized how much more I had to learn. When you have AAA fire, missile warnings screaming at you, mass confusion will overwhelm you. Also, turn on the immortal check box in the option box as you're learning. SEE where the missiles are coming from and how you dispense flares and chaff. If you keep getting shot down you can't see enough. When you're confident, turn it back off.
You had me at "instant start hot action" edit: I have my device at maximum volume and I find it difficult to hear you clearly at times. (Mabey I have bad hearing, but it wouldn't hurt to turn up the record volume :) cause this stuff is the stuff worth hearing).
Good stuff! And probably works great for pedals. For us who have a twist handle with a hard spring, it´s not really an option to keep the pressure on the left rudder (twist) when at around 80-85% TRQ (loaded helo). So I tend to trim and then a quick shake of the hand to loosen up :) Next on the wish list is a pair of pedals!
@@schoolio64D Well I´m not trained with pedals like you :) But the transition from many years of DCS fixed wing and the KA-50 to AH-64 was a bit weird at first, I thought my stick was broken ! :D And I guess I need to do a hard reset on my muscle memory when I buy pedals, and go back to watch this video again :) But this is far the best module I´ve played, even got my friend to join me as a CPG and it´s awesome.
Just found this and good stuff. I always have the IHADSS off on takeoff and landing, I find it very distracting. Doing this in VR at night with night vision activated takes it up a notch. Great video.
I have encountered a problem when you set an s-curve for an axis. The problem occurs with a self-centering joystick like Thrustmaster Warthog Joystick. The joystick is extremely precise at center so there is no need for a dead zone. With no s-curve you can observe the INPUT value and associated OUPUT value for each position of the stick. If you move the stick exactly 1 INPUT unit to the left relative to the center of the x-axis, you get exactly 1 unit of OUTPUT. The same is true when you move the stick to the right relative to the center of the x-axis. This is how it should work with no s-curve. Now, if you change the s-curve to 30 for example, when you move the stick to the left exactly 1 INPUT unit relative to the center of the x-axis, you get still get exactly 1 unit of OUTPUT. Then, when moving the stick to the right relative to the center of the x-axis you must move the stick 6 INPUT units to get 1 OUTPUT unit. I believe that this behavior is incorrect. With a curve of 30, you should have to move the stick 3 units of INPUT relative to the center of the x-axis in either direction to get 1 unit of OUTPUT. It appears that the DCS software is moving the center position of the stick and is causing me all sorts of problems flying AH64-D until I get the proper force-trim set up. I have corrected this problem by using the SETJCURVE function of Thrustmaster Target Script and then by using no curve on the DCS axis tune panel. This very same problem occurs with any DCS module whenever you apply an axis s-curve. I have not encountered a problem with a slider axis. So, if any of you are having problems with flying, you may want to check this out yourself. My flying skill is much improved now.
I’m more amazed that someone who didn’t study physics in high school could’ve become an Apache pilot. That’d never be possible in Europe. The US is such an amazing country for aviation.
I got my share of physics when learning to fly, believe me. You probably are also amazed that most Army pilots aren’t required to have college degrees.
I've picked up a bit more time in the Huey lately and remembering how to hover that has helped with the Apache. You don't learn to drive in a McLaren F1. You learn in a Toyota Corolla and move up to a sports car.
I've flown model helis for years and we always use exponential or curves in our transmitters programming. Since there smaller, models can be extremely sensitive to fly without adding exponential.
I don’t know about models - I’ve tried them and I’m horrible 😂- but I think the curve is very helpful when learning. I’ve since taken mine out and I feel fine with it, but I’m glad I did it initially.
I did a bit of googling but it's hard to find any clear diagram of what a circuit in an Apachr looks like. I read that the xwind and base leg are flown at 90 kts, downwind at 110. I also saw that the circuit is generally flown at 800 ft AGL with a turn to xwind at 300 ft, be around 450 ft on base leg. Does that sound correct? Also, do you slow down from 90 kts as you turn on final? At what speed do you touchdown during circuits? Soooooo many questions, sorry. Not a chopper guy but the Apache is a lot of fun.
Definitely keep practicing. Above 50 feet you are out of ground effect. It takes significantly more power, which takes more pedal, which means more coordination between the two. Keep practicing and you’ll get it.
Love the video, helped a lot, can you do one where you come to a hover from high speed. Example, you traveled to your waypoint, now you need to hover to engage targets, so going from 140kts to a hover, that's what gives me a problem, as soon as I slow down, I drop like a rock and hit the ground.
Keep in mind that your pitch and your collective are sorta interlinked. You trade airspeed for lift. So as you pitch up to slow down, you would normally climb, so you take collective out of it to balance it out. If you use the vector indicator, you can use that to essentially set your glide angle if you're coming in for a landing, so you can be pitch up and slowly descending at the same time. Keep in mind that reducing collective is reducing torque, so you'll need to pay out some pedal to compensate for yaw as well, and depending on how hard you pitch and how much collective you're taking out, you may need some right cyclic too. Key is don't let your sink rate drop below about 300 and add collective slowly as you slow down. If the sink rate gets too high, and you pull too much collective or too quickly, you'll lose rotor RPM and thus lose lift even more and you'll drop out of the sky like a rock. Keep your RPMs up and don't make big adjustments to the collective. ALWAYS give the aircraft time to settle and adjust. Nothing happens instantly so always give lead time for any input to take effect. If you notice that you messed up and your sink rate is out of control, DO NOT yank on the collective. That will get you dead. Instead, you will want to right pedal a little and nose the aircraft down a bit to start picking up forward speed. Eyeball a level open space to land if you think you'll run out of room, but hopefully your forward speed will start to give you some lift and you can recover. If you slipped up and pulled collective, take the collective back out of it as you do the above. I know it seems counter-intuitive but your root-cause problem isn't the collective, it's your RPMs. You need to get your RPMs back and reducing the angle of attack on your blades as they cut into the air will allow them to speed up, which will allow the return of lift. Biggest key is, as you slow down, ALWAYS keep a close eye on your sink rate and don't let it get out of control in the first place, because it will, and it will very quickly. Just get in a habit of keeping an eye on it and try not to let it get below -300 in the first place. Also, it's a bad idea in general to get into a positional hold hover in a threat area. Slow down well in advance of where you want to set up to start scanning, and just gently glide in at about 30kts instead of trying to come to a complete standstill. If you have to go defensive and evade, it's better to do so with 30kts under you already than having to take a few seconds to start building up some momentum. By the time you see that ATGM / RPG / whatever, incoming, those few seconds could mean the difference between you getting away and you eating a fireball.
I’m confused by the fact that upon tail wheel unlock my Apache spins left and yours spins right I have to apply right pedal when your applying left pedal. Was your video before a patch? Is it the tail rotor pushing to the right causing the nose to go left? What does a real Apache do?
The flight model has changed a number of times. Bottom line - push the pedal that you need to push in order to keep the helicopter going the way you want.
my main problem is coming into a hover after forward flight. i always keep the throttle moving, i just seems to no do it fast enough even though im not going super fast. but im learning. only been flying the apache about 2 weeks, and i dove right into it. so im learning on the fly, figuratively and literally.
Keep practicing! You’ll get it. Just remember to reduce power and apply at cyclic. Then as the helicopter slows down, as soon as you notice any sort of descent rate beginning, add power aggressively to arrest the descent. Eventually it will become second nature. Good luck!
i stopped using trim well before the reset came, i had nice 5 foot hovers in the Huey, but struggle in the Apache, mostly it's in the foot petals, as the torque value in the IHADSS display changes i'm slow to catch up and i get rotation in the hull and it will either settle or lift depending on what the torque jump does. torque pretty much never settles out
It definitely takes practice. Keep in mind that anytime you are making a left pedal input, torque will increase as you are using more thrust from the tail rotor. Anytime you make a right pedal input, torque should decrease as well. These won't be large changes, but they can be enough to put you into a bad situation. Cyclic inputs can also lead to torque spikes or drops.
@@schoolio64D ty, and yes i am practicing almost every day, my poor gunner wants me to be a good pilot out of the box so he can get his own practice in
Yes - all helicopters are constantly moving, and you s as the pilot are constantly trying to counter those moves. In a real helicopter, with a little experience, you can start to feel the helicopter begin to move and apply the counter before the helicopter actually moves. The Apache is actually easier because of the control augmentation systems (SCAS) that do a lot of the work for the pilot.
See, now I have a frame of reference. 😂 I’ve never flown a Lakota - I’m old school and flew 67s and 58Cs. The last thing I flew with SAS off was a 60, and it was just sluggish and it was easy to overcontrol until you got used to it. I feel like the DCS 64D is easy to overcontrol, but not because it’s sluggish. I think it’s just because it’s a sim. 🤷♂️
@@schoolio64D Thanks for the quick response. I was really wondering if something was wrong with the module's hovering. It feels more wild than the Lakota SAS-OFF with crosswind lol. Still going guns though!
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the Apache use a Force Trim style SAS? So you press (and hold) the Force Trim Release button, move the cyclic where you want, then release the Force Trim Release button and the mag brakes keep the cyclic at the current position. Then the SAS makes tiny control inputs downstream to counteract minor outside forces (like turbulence) to maintain the pitch and bank attitude you left the cyclic at. The A119 I flew for a couple years had this style of Force Trim and SAS and my EC135 instructor (Apache guy) said it’s pretty similar in the Apache. The EC135 is cool in that below 40 kts it has “follow me trim” and without pressing the force trim release button the SAS automatically senses your control inputs and runs the trim motors to trim out the forces. It’s pretty amazing.
As I said, you have to find the settings that work best for you. For most folks, that involves a curve. I can tell you that the sensitivity of the pedals with no adjustments to curve or saturation is extreme compared to the actual helicopter.
@@schoolio64D yah that's my problem I have no comparison with real life so maybe what I think is good it's far from it. But thanks anyway for your tips
I was just on and noticed that hovering was a little more difficult than previously, but I can’t blame that on anything in particular. I recently removed all my curves, so it could have been that. Or it could have been the fact that I now have an extension on my cyclic. Or it could have been the bourbon. 🤷♂️😂
@@74GreyCat and I think it feels more realistic. When you’re actually wearing the HDU, the only thing you really notice is the tint in the combiner lens during the day.
@@schoolio64D Salutes. Thanks for this comment. I was literally loosing my mind and could not understand why helicopter has been designed to fly in cruise with attitude roll or crab in perfect conditions, with forces acting on crew member's spinal cord and butt all over the place but down. Keeping ball in center in a cruise and coordinated turns applies for all aircraft.
Hey School, 82nd first Gulf War, 3rd/75th Somalia and beyond here. Trained with, and called In some Apache favors in the 90s, even saw a CW05 unicorn once. Did they change the gun since the 90s? They never were dead on, but used to have a good circular area of probability you could call In on. In DCS I see most of the rounds are long and left or right. Has the army changed the gun or 30mm loads, or is DCS just hand tied with what they can give us?
@@schoolio64D Your awesome buddy, glad you joined our community. If you need help with any fixed wing, hit me up! Mind if I pick your brain for one more question? DCS AH64d Question: Is there a way to quickly re-center the view on the Tedac screen like bore sighting the tgp on the a10, f16, f18, etc. Like the A10 II you can just bind OSB 5 some where now and it'll re-center almost instantly, even from gimbal limits. Thanks!
@@tibsimm absolutely! TSD page, right side, bottom button (R6) should be your acquisition source. Set that to fixed, then press the “slave” button on the right handgrip. It will slave fixed forward, and you can hit it again to De-slave and move the TADS around.
@@schoolio64D hey buddy, 82nd/Ranger E6 8 year here. Mind if I ask what ranks you and Casmo were? Curious if you were warrants, 2 3 or 4, or actual help map reading needing officers lol. Sam
@@tibsimm I won't speak for Casmo - he talks about his long and distinguished career in his own videos. As for me, I did need help reading a map. If you check out my twitch channel, you can find a video there where I'm wearing a Stetson with my current (soon to be retired) rank. I'll just say that the eagle eyes help me navigate now. XD
@@GenerationGap69 I haven’t tried but it’s definitely possible. I know there are others who do it. It’s probably a little more difficult, but if that’s how you’re able to enjoy it, then that’s awesome! Thanks for watching!
64 guy myself, new to DCS and wanting to use it to get more comfortable with symbology, button pushing, etc. Are you using VR or Head tracker? I can't find anything on here that shows the differences seen from the wearer. also, what stick do you use? I want something that has the buttons for Hold Modes and WASing. Thanks, former Hawk Guy trying to drink the Kool Aid, lol!
Hey thanks for watching! For the video used TrackIR, but I use VR when not recording as it picks up every little head movement. VR is fantastic for immersion. I use the Thrustmaster Warthog stick and throttle with a Virpil rotor plus collective and Hawk grip. The Warthog stick works well with plenty of switches.
@@schoolio64D have you looked at the Logitech x-56? i'm trying to build muscle memory for WASing and Hold Modes. Are you using those on the warthog stick? How so? Thanks again.
@@RamadiTaxiDriver60M I haven’t looked at that stick but I know that a lot of people use it. I use a POV hat for the WAS and another 4-direction switch for the trimmer/hold modes. The force trim works, the attitude hold shows up but doesn’t work very well, and altitude hold isn’t implemented yet.
As a practitioner, is the curve setting in DCS the closest to reality? If you look at the actual video, the dcs look hyper-sensitive. What do you think as a working-level worker? Of course, the flight stick program is differnt real flight.
Since I got the module my personal chain of "problems" is getting longer and longer... To be closer to heli-like controls I replaced my complete (older) desktop setup with some higher-end gear (at least that`s what people seemed to say ;-) ). Now I'm facing a control sensitivity which might be more realistic, but needs my whole attention. The Ka-50`s auto-hover function let me use the sensors or systems on my own terms and pace, doing a battlefield recon for example. Whereas hovering the Apache now keeps me so busy as a pilot, that I have literally not much ressources left to fiddle with the MPD`s etc. . And, since I found out (the hard way) that the George AI seems to be unable to recognize between friend or foe, I'm wondering how should I deal with that on top? I mean, if the flight model is half-way realistic or not I'm not able to say, but I do love that "flying" an aircraft finally is getting challenging. I have basically "played" every heli game or sim since "Gunship" on C64, but never before the DCS releases I found it satisfying to even spend time with a machine to get "better" in handling it. So, with the AH-64 module something weird has happened, since it`s release... I spent 99% of the time in doing flight exercises and that a flight sim nowadays makes you do something like that is pretty amazing, I think. But now comes the daunting part... How am I supposed, as a single-player, to move tactically across a battlefield doing recon and finding the right targets within many just from the pilot`s seat? Or do you suggest it is mandatory at this point of EA release to hover the heli and manually taking over the CP/G seat? Thanks for your dedication to help out understanding something as complex as a helicopter and its handling!
I think it depends on what you want to focus on. If you want to focus on employing weapons using the TADS, have George fly. If you want to focus on flying from the backseat, the key is to have the George AI control mapped to something you can access without looking, and learning what George does in each mode. For the backseat (with George in front), it’s not too difficult. For example, I activate the AI menu with a button on my stick, then use a 4-way hat on my collective to control him. Have TADS video displayed on an MPD. Push forward on the hat to slave to the pilot line of sight, and when he finds a target, I have “consent to fire” mapped to another button on my stick. I know that’s not a great answer, but it’s just going to take practice. If you can do it in multiplayer with a human in the front, even better.
@@schoolio64D Thanks that you took the time to write a reply! How would you suggest to handle the AI in a more dynamic environment? Every video I have watched up to now, dealing with the AI in either role, looked like rather limited scenarios where the player knew exactly where to look for enemy units. Like, for example, some included training missions or single scenarios, where a group of enemy units have been placed around a waypoint. A while back I flew a randomly generated mission with the Ka-50 in a CAS role. The usual "units in proximity with the enemy need support" starting point. I excluded unit icons on the map, so I needed to rely solely on my own recon abilities. When I reached the front-line enemy units were pouring into a town, some as a column, some in an open formation. But also own units from outside the urban area tried to get in. It was so dynamic and a little bit overwhelming. Although I could make out the enemy units with the pre-American Civil War video optics, I wasn't able to get a clear line of sight for the Vikhr`s. So, I had to constantly change my position and go with the "flow" of the battle. And now I'm wondering about how I could approach a similar situation with the George AI? Probably it's really like you mentioned, that I would have to switch between stations ... a lot. Yes, Multiplayer would probably be perfect for this scenario, but on one hand I can only make limited use of a mic at the moment and on the other hand: I really really would like to give the impression that I have at least a little idea about what I'm doing. :-) On a side note: After watching your hover video yesterday I tried it myself at once with switched off IHADSS and it felt very satisfying and raw somehow. I saw a lot of "check your surroundings" comments or the uploader even mentioned it in the video, but I haven't come across any video yet, where the player followed his own advice and switched it off then. ...except you! :-) Thanks for that! It sticks much better when you actually see it, than just reading or hearing about it.
@@XShadowY honestly I just put the TADS video up on the right MPD, point George in the direction I want him to look, and constantly have him slave/scan. It's not very efficient, but it's what we have at the moment. The other option is to have George fly and you do the scanning. Positive ID of targets is really only possible using visual identification if you're not using the F10 map. As an aside, in the AH-64A, unless we were flying at night, we usually didn't wear the HDU. It was only when we transitioned to the AH-64D that we started wearing it both day and night.
@@schoolio64D Thanks for your help, it's very much appreciated! And please excuse my question-spamming, I'm just looking for an effective way to put the puzzle together. The luxury nowadays of having people around who experienced the aircraft in question and are willing to help is quite precious and an overall new experience. When DCS made the jump from "Lock On" and it felt like there are just three people in the whole world playing the Ka-50 module there was not a lot of reference or tutorial material available to help you learning a new machine. The community has always been great, however. When I merely accidentally hit the "Multiplayer" button and my Ka-50 appeared on a runway, on a random server, another one spawned next to me. I said: "I just purchased the module, I have no idea where is what or what to do!?" And the other guy: "No problem, I can guide you through the cold start routine in no time!" 200 hundred years later and suddenly we have such ressources, amazing! Who would have thought that in the 80`s... :-) Thanks so much!
Wait! You’re flying with FMC disabled! Is that why you have big curves on the controls? Please respond! The 2nd part question, is it better to fly with FMC disabled?
I don’t fly with any curves anymore - haven’t in quite some time. I tried flying with the trim off, but that shouldn’t disable the FMC (but it flies like it DOES disable it). When you turn off each axis individually, it doesn’t change anything - you still get the saturated message.
@@schoolio64D yes, i don't like the curves either. The only axis-tune I have is the dead zone of 2 on my rudders because I always rest my feet on them. Thanks for the response.
@@fady904 when I first made the video, the flight model was a lot more sensitive and difficult to fly. As they’ve made some adjustments to the model, I was able to take out the curves. The FM still isn’t perfect, but it’s better than it was at the beginning. Thanks for watching!
Like balancing a marble on a dinner plate lol The only helicopter I've flown is the Squad UH-60, and even that was fucken hard. I can't even imagine how hard a full sim like the DCS ones must be, even with practice...
Great video, I don't know if this is right or not, but I feel smaller helos are more responsive (twitchy) then larger helos, it seemed to me that when I went from flying the UH-1 Huey to flying the Gazelle, it seemed like the Gazelle was more twitchy or responsive (whatever you call it), please correct me if I'm wrong. Where's a little story my Uncle told that he had to do to get his helicopter license, my Uncle was a crop duster or AG pilot if you prefer, for his helicopter final flight test I guess it was, he said the instructor setup 4 of those orange traffic cones on a pad (I don't know how big the pad was), My Uncle had to hover the helicopter facing North, While keeping the helo at a hover and facing North the whole time, he had to move it to the Northwest cone touch the front of the left skid to the top of the cone, and without crushing the cone, he had to do a 360 degree spin to the left, keeping the skid on top of the cone the whole time, once he was back facing North, he had to slid the helo over to what would be the East cone and touch the right skid to the top of that cone and do a 360 degree spin to the right, then he had to fly backwards to the South cone touch the left skid to it and do another left spin, then fly to the West cone, touch the right skid to the top of it, do another spin to the right, then come back to center of the pad hover and land, he said it was easier then it sounds. I'm not 100 percent sure, but I believe the helicopter he used was a Bell Model 47, either way, I was impressed, Thanks again for the video, and keep'em coming
The Huey and the Gazelle have two different rotor head designs that lead to different control responses (in real life). Bigger rotorcraft tend to have partially or fully articulated heads, whereas smaller aircraft like the Huey have (had) teetering/partially articulated heads that produce reduced control response.
Sure! TM Warthog HOTAS stick, TM Warthog throttle (for power levers and switches), and a Virpil rotor plus base collective with hawk grip. Also have the Logitech/Saitek pedals.
@@schoolio64D well out of curiosity I tried 24 curv and wayyyy to slopy. But happily found that 6curv might be a new preference over 0. It's not much of a change but I suspect the long throw of the Virpil cyclic controller is probably why 0 to 6 works so well.
Why won't the apache roll forward with break off unladen and 30% power in missions out side of the take off and hover tutorial? Even with the cyclic full forward it won't pitch the blades far enough forward, can anybody suggest a fix or some help plz??
It should as long as you’re on a runway, ramp, or taxiway. If you’re trying to do it from grass it will take a lot more power. Typically you should only need about 25% to start rolling. Is the parking brake still set?
So easy a Blackhawk pilot can do it. 👍🏻
😂
If you can ever get the 64 out of maintenance lmao
Shots fired....
Shot over…
Splash over
Adding 25 curve to the rudder made a world of difference in flying this thing. Can't actually believe I have WAY more control now flying it than I had before. Really shows just how sensitive I had my rudders at. THANK YOU!
Redtail11
1 second ago
I have to set all my curves to 45 because how how crappy the HOTAS One is. A deadzone of 8 in all directions for the stick too because it never quite sits in the center. A friggin crime to sell this POS for 100$ if I had spent that much I’d be even more upset but I got it on sale for 60$ so I can’t complain TOO much about how much it sucks.
@Redtail11 Yeah my stick doesn't center perfectly too so I always do a slight left bank in the F18 I have to watch out for (unless I got autopilot on)
Yes I do that for most of the planes too. It really does help!
The tip on "taking it out" while making corrections just helped me immensely. So far the best video on hovering I've watched. Thank you so much!
I love the layman approach brother. Helps us smooth brained pixel pilots! Both informative and entertaining! Much appreciated.
Wow, said what I wanted to say but better. DCS makes me feel the smooth brain vibes. Every time I learn something new there's like 2 or 3 things at play I also never realized existed....
I cannot call this a layman approach. Trust me, this is the way ACES master any aircraft. They fly with the feel of the aircraft, most newbees fight the aircraft, that's not the way to go. Sense it, just as explained here in this video.
It may seem like a layman approach, but I have more than a 1000 flight hours in a ka50, I know this is the way real and seroius pilots master the aircraft, by sensing it.
Amazing skills on display. People that have never flown the DCS Apache have no idea how hard this kind of hovering is! Superb tips! I'll be putting them to good use - thanks for the video! :)
Glad I could help, and happy flying!
Best teaching for hover I've found! My curves were too steep and yes it helps a lot to remove the helmet visor. My first hover was just so good! Thank's a lot👍
See the motion, stop the motion, and settle yourself was one of the best things my IP ever told me.
Yup!
I always visualise it as a pendulum and seen from above. I know its nowhere near the same fidelity, but this allowed me to operate the AH64 in Apache Air Assault on the hardest difficulty settings and I was able to really get the concept of helicopter movement drift etc which helped big time with high speed NOE and quick evasion and hoovering.
I havent fired up my new build for DCS module yet but when I do, I would like to think the concepts will transfer nicely.
Thanks for making content - such a valuable asset to have real pilots sharing expertise for DCS.
I did used to speak to an American Apache pilot online who used to operate tanks before getting selected for Apache. Im not quite sure who it is but may have been Casmo as he was tanks prior - with you also making content on UA-cam it's got me wondering...
Very helpful thanks. The part where you make control inputs momentary and revert quickly is the most revelatory piece of info.
really a very informative video. I am new to helicopter flying and have no experience at all. With almost 200 hours in the Hornet, I thought to myself: Hey, try something completely different. so I buy the Apache module for DCS. and I was totally overwhelmed. starting this procedure without trimming was completely new to me and i am surprised how well it worked. my thanks for that. I was really frustrated after so many failed attempts. now I'm going to delve deeper into the apache again. Thanks again and greetings from Germany
With this and your slowing down video you've spelt the basics out better than so many others I've seen in the last few weeks. I did similar by turning IHADSS off a couple of weeks ago, to get a feel for flying, as you can end up hypnotised by it instead of just the heli and the where it is.
Awesome! Thanks for watching!
You have a very kind calm and relaxing voice
making you an excellent instructor
Thank you so much! And thanks for watching!
I ended up using the same curvature values as you without ever seeing this video! What a coincidence! Great minds!
This helped a lot. I never used trim during hover anyways but the curves really smoothed it out for me.
Very nice!
finally someone mentioning the importance of Hovering by looking outside and using your peripherals!
I remember my instructor drilling into my brain: "Look outside at the horizon to stabilize your hover!"
and it's the best hover advice I ever got :)
also how twitchy helicopter controls are in general compared to fixed wing, gonna need to adjust those curves on my end XD
I can only imagine how much actually being in the helicopter and feeling the movement helps too. Missing that feeling of altitude and attitude change probably makes it way tougher to just sit there and hover in place.
Yes! That’s why VR is so much better than 2D - you don’t quite feel it, but it’s much easier to pick up all of the tiny little aircraft movements that are nearly imperceptible in 2D.
Just a suggestion Check out Dcs world Matt Wagner aka Wags videos on the AH-64D if you want to. he also covers in hovering tutorial , rolling take off transition from hovering to takeoff etc...hovering using near, far objects on runway ,tree line mountains etc...plenty of great tips, instruction out there.
@@Mohkin-demon already a fan for years of Matt 😉
@@Mohkin-demon definitely. Wags made some great videos that I know we all watched before the module was released, but most people haven’t gone back to watch them again.
OMG! thank you so much so simple, so helpful! made the difference between me getting from a to b and coming to a hover (and leaving the rotors and tails scattered all over the field)!!!
in our group dcs we bark a friend who is your colleague real helicopter pilot, and taught us to keep us in hovering exactly as you showed, that is, without looking at the symbolism, but taking references to the outside, then he is teaching us to navigate without intervening on the collective but moving only the cyclic
What a breath of fresh air; someone saying 'Don't use trim'. I fly the DCS Apache, Huey, Mi-8 and never use trim on any of them (I do use a little trim in cruise with the Gaz, but thats a different animal). If you use a non-sprung cyclic you don't need it. One thing in your video I disagree with though, is using a curve on the anti-torque pedals - I started by using a curve but found that when you are hovering you are using a lot of left pedal which takes the rudder position out of the flat part of the curve and on to the steep part which actually makes the pedals MORE sensitive. I found it is much better to remove the curve and reduce the overall saturation which will give a lower sensitivity over the 'hovering' range of the pedal input, but will still give enough tail authority in high load/high wind situations.
Great video though - and I have found that I am hovering better by ignoring the IHADSS and relying on visual cues as you describe. Keep the videos coming. Liked and subbed!
Thanks! I haven’t messed around with saturation very much. As I said in the video, I think people should find the amount of curve that works for them, especially if they have pedals with a centering spring or detent.
@@schoolio64D I’m the same as a John in that regard. Curves are good to a point then you gotta be careful not to get the fast swing on the extremes, which is where saturation is better. For example the A4 mod is stupidly twitchy, I have 70% Y sat on pitch and roll and it still has a blazing roll rate but seems to be the sweet spot on pitch, I can go full stick and never tip stall. But as you said.. everyone’s set up is different and individuals must find what works best for their set up. 👏👍😎
@@flightsimulatoradventures7246 Good point. I haven't messed around with saturation really at all, so I might have to experiment with that a bit. Relatively new to DCS but not new to helicopters obviously. 👍
I use trim, honestly doing 40-60 miles trips in choppers constantly keeping the pressure on the controls gets tiring lol
@@StoneCoolds You need to de-spring your cyclic 😉
Nice. The coarse part of it I knew already, but it was the fine details that makes the difference for me. The little bit of left cyclic will help me a lot now.
Thanks for your knowledge, experience and your service Schoolio! Always pays to learn from an actual user!
Thank you! And thanks for watching!
Thank you a lot mate, it made it so much more precise and I now it's way more gentle and works a lot better. I can see that when you behave gently to the helicopter, the helicopter will do what you want and putting restrains (trim) on it just makes it way harder to get it doing what you want.
Glad it helped! Enjoy flying it!
Hey, thx brother for the video and for the help. I rly appreciate your time in helping simpilots with your knowledge.
You have a nice voice to explain and its rly helpful. So thx at all and greets from germany. Keep going and cheers.
"Don't use the Trim." - I love it! Truth! - Build the intuition, and feel the aircraft through the symbols and Hud + spatial awareness.
Very informative. Please produce more videos like this. Thanks a lot!
I love that you didn't forget to talk about pulling your correction out.
I've come to refer to this as "correcting the correction."
Make a correction to drift, correct the correction. Bring the input back to that hover control position.
Solid litte video
Thanks! And thanks for watching!
I have been flying the ka50 for quite long and havnt gotten a chance to fly the 64 yet, not getting time. But I love the way this is explained here, it's is actually the way I was planning to try the 64 out. Literally feel how the chopper us going to react with little inputs and external references. Thus is the way to go guys.
In the ka50, I never use the auto hover, I simply bring the chopper to a good hover trim woth external reference and that's about it.
+1,
Awesome. I'm not sure why the trim thing seem to really discombobulate some community members. Perhaps people assuming the trim was out of whack and needing some sort of mystical centering on take off, rather than as you point out, the physics relating to countering the torque rotations. Definitely takes practice, which is part of the challenge. I have a new respect for those pilots who do work on high tension power lines and other fiddly precision flying jobs in choppers!
Those guys are insane! Hovering that close to those lines…no thanks! 😂
I advocated for the trim reset and I understand why; was too easy to trim yourself into an uncommanded roll. Would have been nice to have it at first, but I dont need it either so I get both sides.
@utley seems reasonable, there are things difficult to feel in the sim, there's a lot of sensory input you can't recreate.
@@Pricklyhedgehog72 yep! and one of the best things to get specifically for that is one of andre's vibrating seats
Wow that's awsome! Thanks for making this video for us ... would love to learn more and hear your experience!
I definitely agree with not using trim and removing the IHADSS. For me I only use trim in flight and tend to reset it when setting up an approach to land. Helicopters are hard to hover so keeping it simple to start with is important. Great video.
You said left peddle to counter torque caused by main rotor.. I would add then left cyclic to counter translating tendency (or drifting right ) to counter the left peddle input.
How do you reset trim?
@@Thumper770 Trim reset is a poor choice of words since their isn't one. So what I'm actually doing is referencing the flight control indicator and centering the cyclic and peddles then hitting trim. I find this is easiest to do if you lower collective, wait a second then center both at the same time.. this isn't ideal but it's how I do it.
It's a combination of lowering collective, aft cyclic, and center peddles, then hit trim.
Hope that helps.
You didn’t have to do this but you took the time to help out the DCS community I respect that. Thank you so much for your help brother.
I love my TrackIR, but nothing beats VR for hovering. It's so much more natural feeling than anything else, so much easier to be aware of your position in 3D space. I can actually hover without the IHADSS in VR. If I'm sightseeing or practicing navigation I usually use TrackIR since the graphics are nicer, but for the sheer joy of achieving a stable hover with this sensitive bird, VR is a revelation.
I much prefer to fly in VR, but TrackIR/2D is much better for recording videos.
Thanks for watching!
Same here, that's the main reason I purchased VR is for the realism in sims.
Switching the IHADSS off helped me a lot.
Yeah I don’t think it adds anything and, in the helicopter, you don’t see that much - it’s all in your peripheral vision.
Man I'm really appreciating my new control setup. Having that VAB Gunfighter with the extended grip, and the TPR pedals makes a huge difference with this bird.
Needless to say that the quality of your control setup makes a difference in your game/sim experience.
@@schoolio64D hell yeah it dose. Honestly there needs to be a better midrange in flight sim hardware. I had an old Saitek setup from 2007 to 2020. When it went I tried to replace it with a Thustmaster T.16000 setup. Lol that was an eye opener. So I had the opportunity and decided to go all in. I did use a VKB NXT in the interim and that is a good pice of kit. But the amount of persion you can get out of a quality control setup is amazing.
@@sasquatchycowboy5585 I think the TM Warthog used to be midrange, but the prices skyrocketed a few years ago. I use it and it’s a good setup, but I may upgrade in the next year or two to a Virpil or VKB.
@@schoolio64D I like the cams on the VKB alot. I'm using the aviation soft center with the long extension and a 50 sping. It's almost perfect for helicopters. The first time I flew the Mi-24 with it there was an instant improvement in my ability to hover. The Apache would be a real handful with the NXT. But I'm running the Gunfighter with no curves at all. Between the TPRs and the Gunfighter I can really appreciate its responsiveness. But I can control it without much issue. I can hover pretty easily. The Apache just make the setup really shine. I do use the TM warthog throttle. Shit wasn't cheap at all though. It was my military retirement present. I really think the NXT would be a perfect midrange stick if they could Gen an NXT throttle out. I've never tried Viper, but I hear they are pretty awesome. Still pricey. At least with VKB you can get an NXT and their rudder pedals at a decent price.
THX - Sir! Great Input to "tame" the beast....
LOVE THE CHANNEL!!!! WE LOVE YOU SCHOOLIO!
Thanks brother!
The type of controls you're using also make a HUGE difference in not only hovering, but in controlling it in all phases of flight. If you're using the rudder built into your stick you are a a big disadvantage already and it's going top be much harder. If you have slider pedals on the floor, as I do, you're also at a disadvantage, although it's an improvement over the stick rudder that you twist. I got the Thrustmaster stick/throttle/pedal package and I would consider that to be minimum entry level. A good place to begin, but you want to upgrade each as you go further. I would upgrade in this order: pedals, stick and throttle last. The Thrustmaster throttle is actually pretty good. The stick is waaaayyy to stiff for helicopter use, but you can manage. Especially with the trimming features. But practice, like everything else in this world, is the only way you will get better. And don't be discouraged when you test yourself and fail. That too is part of the process. I got good at taking off, flying, shooting up a truck park, then landing. Easy peasy. Then I started putting in targets that shoot back and realized how much more I had to learn. When you have AAA fire, missile warnings screaming at you, mass confusion will overwhelm you. Also, turn on the immortal check box in the option box as you're learning. SEE where the missiles are coming from and how you dispense flares and chaff. If you keep getting shot down you can't see enough. When you're confident, turn it back off.
Good video. Looking forward to practicing and finally getting the hang of hovering in the Apache as well as the other whirlygig voodoo death machines.
Thanks appreciated this im slowly getting better in the hover but i think this will defo help me to improve!
You had me at "instant start hot action" edit: I have my device at maximum volume and I find it difficult to hear you clearly at times. (Mabey I have bad hearing, but it wouldn't hurt to turn up the record volume :) cause this stuff is the stuff worth hearing).
same here, volume cranked at 11 and my neighbors didnt appreciate the heavy metal music that was played afterwards at 1am.
@@utley heavy metal? LOL not in my video sir.
@@schoolio64D your video, no. MY video....
What are y'all talkin' about? My favorite song to listen to while flyin' the Apache is "Bodies" by Drowning Pool! ;-)
@@MikeInExile the death metal song written by Celine dion
Good stuff! And probably works great for pedals.
For us who have a twist handle with a hard spring, it´s not really an option to keep the pressure on the left rudder (twist) when at around 80-85% TRQ (loaded helo). So I tend to trim and then a quick shake of the hand to loosen up :)
Next on the wish list is a pair of pedals!
Yeah pedals are definitely a must if you're going to fly helicopters. I don't know if I could work a twist grip very well at all!
@@schoolio64D Well I´m not trained with pedals like you :) But the transition from many years of DCS fixed wing and the KA-50 to AH-64 was a bit weird at first, I thought my stick was broken ! :D And I guess I need to do a hard reset on my muscle memory when I buy pedals, and go back to watch this video again :)
But this is far the best module I´ve played, even got my friend to join me as a CPG and it´s awesome.
Thanks so much for this! Very helpfull!!
Great advice.
Spot on 👍
Thank you so much for this. Made a big change for me!
Awesome!
Great video, thanks
Just found this and good stuff. I always have the IHADSS off on takeoff and landing, I find it very distracting. Doing this in VR at night with night vision activated takes it up a notch. Great video.
I have encountered a problem when you set an s-curve for an axis. The problem occurs with a self-centering joystick like Thrustmaster Warthog Joystick. The joystick is extremely precise at center so there is no need for a dead zone. With no s-curve you can observe the INPUT value and associated OUPUT value for each position of the stick. If you move the stick exactly 1 INPUT unit to the left relative to the center of the x-axis, you get exactly 1 unit of OUTPUT. The same is true when you move the stick to the right relative to the center of the x-axis. This is how it should work with no s-curve. Now, if you change the s-curve to 30 for example, when you move the stick to the left exactly 1 INPUT unit relative to the center of the x-axis, you get still get exactly 1 unit of OUTPUT. Then, when moving the stick to the right relative to the center of the x-axis you must move the stick 6 INPUT units to get 1 OUTPUT unit. I believe that this behavior is incorrect. With a curve of 30, you should have to move the stick 3 units of INPUT relative to the center of the x-axis in either direction to get 1 unit of OUTPUT. It appears that the DCS software is moving the center position of the stick and is causing me all sorts of problems flying AH64-D until I get the proper force-trim set up.
I have corrected this problem by using the SETJCURVE function of Thrustmaster Target Script and then by using no curve on the DCS axis tune panel.
This very same problem occurs with any DCS module whenever you apply an axis s-curve. I have not encountered a problem with a slider axis.
So, if any of you are having problems with flying, you may want to check this out yourself. My flying skill is much improved now.
I’m more amazed that someone who didn’t study physics in high school could’ve become an Apache pilot.
That’d never be possible in Europe. The US is such an amazing country for aviation.
I got my share of physics when learning to fly, believe me. You probably are also amazed that most Army pilots aren’t required to have college degrees.
Would these same curve adjustments be wise to make on choppers like the KA-50 as well?
@Solo6R I honestly don’t have any time flying the Ka-50, so I can’t answer that.
I've picked up a bit more time in the Huey lately and remembering how to hover that has helped with the Apache. You don't learn to drive in a McLaren F1. You learn in a Toyota Corolla and move up to a sports car.
How do you get that window in the upper left corner showing the axis inputs?
Control-enter I believe.
Thx for video straightforward and valuable info keep up the videos
Good one. Subscribed
I've flown model helis for years and we always use exponential or curves in our transmitters programming. Since there smaller, models can be extremely sensitive to fly without adding exponential.
I don’t know about models - I’ve tried them and I’m horrible 😂- but I think the curve is very helpful when learning. I’ve since taken mine out and I feel fine with it, but I’m glad I did it initially.
Great video! Thank you. I would love to see how choppers fly circuits, specifically the Apache. Would you be able to show us?
I’ll try to get one recorded when I return from vacation. Thanks for watching!
@@schoolio64D awesome! Have a good one!
I did a bit of googling but it's hard to find any clear diagram of what a circuit in an Apachr looks like. I read that the xwind and base leg are flown at 90 kts, downwind at 110. I also saw that the circuit is generally flown at 800 ft AGL with a turn to xwind at 300 ft, be around 450 ft on base leg. Does that sound correct? Also, do you slow down from 90 kts as you turn on final? At what speed do you touchdown during circuits? Soooooo many questions, sorry. Not a chopper guy but the Apache is a lot of fun.
A question, I am good at 5 to 30 feet, but above that, it gets sloppy. Is it something you just have to keep practicing, or is there different tricks?
Definitely keep practicing. Above 50 feet you are out of ground effect. It takes significantly more power, which takes more pedal, which means more coordination between the two. Keep practicing and you’ll get it.
@@schoolio64D Will do.
Great video.....I'm sure a lot of people have been struggling with this and curves are def the answer! Cheers! Liked and Subbed!
Love the video, helped a lot, can you do one where you come to a hover from high speed. Example, you traveled to your waypoint, now you need to hover to engage targets, so going from 140kts to a hover, that's what gives me a problem, as soon as I slow down, I drop like a rock and hit the ground.
I was actually thinking about doing a video where I demonstrate a low level deceleration, among other things. It’s on the list!
Keep in mind that your pitch and your collective are sorta interlinked. You trade airspeed for lift. So as you pitch up to slow down, you would normally climb, so you take collective out of it to balance it out. If you use the vector indicator, you can use that to essentially set your glide angle if you're coming in for a landing, so you can be pitch up and slowly descending at the same time. Keep in mind that reducing collective is reducing torque, so you'll need to pay out some pedal to compensate for yaw as well, and depending on how hard you pitch and how much collective you're taking out, you may need some right cyclic too.
Key is don't let your sink rate drop below about 300 and add collective slowly as you slow down. If the sink rate gets too high, and you pull too much collective or too quickly, you'll lose rotor RPM and thus lose lift even more and you'll drop out of the sky like a rock. Keep your RPMs up and don't make big adjustments to the collective. ALWAYS give the aircraft time to settle and adjust. Nothing happens instantly so always give lead time for any input to take effect.
If you notice that you messed up and your sink rate is out of control, DO NOT yank on the collective. That will get you dead. Instead, you will want to right pedal a little and nose the aircraft down a bit to start picking up forward speed. Eyeball a level open space to land if you think you'll run out of room, but hopefully your forward speed will start to give you some lift and you can recover.
If you slipped up and pulled collective, take the collective back out of it as you do the above. I know it seems counter-intuitive but your root-cause problem isn't the collective, it's your RPMs. You need to get your RPMs back and reducing the angle of attack on your blades as they cut into the air will allow them to speed up, which will allow the return of lift. Biggest key is, as you slow down, ALWAYS keep a close eye on your sink rate and don't let it get out of control in the first place, because it will, and it will very quickly. Just get in a habit of keeping an eye on it and try not to let it get below -300 in the first place.
Also, it's a bad idea in general to get into a positional hold hover in a threat area. Slow down well in advance of where you want to set up to start scanning, and just gently glide in at about 30kts instead of trying to come to a complete standstill. If you have to go defensive and evade, it's better to do so with 30kts under you already than having to take a few seconds to start building up some momentum. By the time you see that ATGM / RPG / whatever, incoming, those few seconds could mean the difference between you getting away and you eating a fireball.
I’m confused by the fact that upon tail wheel unlock my Apache spins left and yours spins right I have to apply right pedal when your applying left pedal. Was your video before a patch? Is it the tail rotor pushing to the right causing the nose to go left?
What does a real Apache do?
The flight model has changed a number of times. Bottom line - push the pedal that you need to push in order to keep the helicopter going the way you want.
my main problem is coming into a hover after forward flight. i always keep the throttle moving, i just seems to no do it fast enough even though im not going super fast. but im learning. only been flying the apache about 2 weeks, and i dove right into it. so im learning on the fly, figuratively and literally.
Keep practicing! You’ll get it. Just remember to reduce power and apply at cyclic. Then as the helicopter slows down, as soon as you notice any sort of descent rate beginning, add power aggressively to arrest the descent. Eventually it will become second nature. Good luck!
Just realised the cockpit looks SO MUCH like the FW-190 cockpit!
at what time stamp do you hover in place? Looks like you were forward and backward the entire time.
Yup.
i stopped using trim well before the reset came, i had nice 5 foot hovers in the Huey, but struggle in the Apache, mostly it's in the foot petals, as the torque value in the IHADSS display changes i'm slow to catch up and i get rotation in the hull and it will either settle or lift depending on what the torque jump does. torque pretty much never settles out
It definitely takes practice. Keep in mind that anytime you are making a left pedal input, torque will increase as you are using more thrust from the tail rotor. Anytime you make a right pedal input, torque should decrease as well. These won't be large changes, but they can be enough to put you into a bad situation. Cyclic inputs can also lead to torque spikes or drops.
@@schoolio64D ty, and yes i am practicing almost every day, my poor gunner wants me to be a good pilot out of the box so he can get his own practice in
Not factoring sensitivity, does the Apache really behave that way with cyclic inputs at a hover?
Yes - all helicopters are constantly moving, and you s as the pilot are constantly trying to counter those moves. In a real helicopter, with a little experience, you can start to feel the helicopter begin to move and apply the counter before the helicopter actually moves. The Apache is actually easier because of the control augmentation systems (SCAS) that do a lot of the work for the pilot.
See, now I have a frame of reference. 😂 I’ve never flown a Lakota - I’m old school and flew 67s and 58Cs. The last thing I flew with SAS off was a 60, and it was just sluggish and it was easy to overcontrol until you got used to it. I feel like the DCS 64D is easy to overcontrol, but not because it’s sluggish. I think it’s just because it’s a sim. 🤷♂️
@@schoolio64D Thanks for the quick response. I was really wondering if something was wrong with the module's hovering. It feels more wild than the Lakota SAS-OFF with crosswind lol. Still going guns though!
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the Apache use a Force Trim style SAS? So you press (and hold) the Force Trim Release button, move the cyclic where you want, then release the Force Trim Release button and the mag brakes keep the cyclic at the current position. Then the SAS makes tiny control inputs downstream to counteract minor outside forces (like turbulence) to maintain the pitch and bank attitude you left the cyclic at. The A119 I flew for a couple years had this style of Force Trim and SAS and my EC135 instructor (Apache guy) said it’s pretty similar in the Apache. The EC135 is cool in that below 40 kts it has “follow me trim” and without pressing the force trim release button the SAS automatically senses your control inputs and runs the trim motors to trim out the forces. It’s pretty amazing.
About the curve on the pedals, that really depends on your hardware. I just change from tm basic crappy rudder to virpil and it's just day and night
As I said, you have to find the settings that work best for you. For most folks, that involves a curve. I can tell you that the sensitivity of the pedals with no adjustments to curve or saturation is extreme compared to the actual helicopter.
@@schoolio64D yah that's my problem I have no comparison with real life so maybe what I think is good it's far from it. But thanks anyway for your tips
This help's a lot👍
Thanks for watching! Glad it helped!
Hi, can you still hover well? I've read recent updates have made it harder. Something to do with SCAS. I can't keep it stable with attitude hold.
I was just on and noticed that hovering was a little more difficult than previously, but I can’t blame that on anything in particular. I recently removed all my curves, so it could have been that. Or it could have been the fact that I now have an extension on my cyclic. Or it could have been the bourbon. 🤷♂️😂
@@schoolio64D 😂👍 It's the first "game" I've found I'm not better at after whiskey. P.S. I meant I can't keep it stable WITHOUT attitude hold.
Thanks!
Great video!
How did you make it so that the "glass on HMD" was not visible?
It’s an option in the settings menu. I believe it’s the same options page where you can change your trimmer mode.
@@schoolio64D Thanks, I've already found it! It's much more convenient this way.
@@74GreyCat and I think it feels more realistic. When you’re actually wearing the HDU, the only thing you really notice is the tint in the combiner lens during the day.
It's called 'pause sim' in keybindings
I am having trouble flying straight cruise, I often drift or crab a little or fly with slight roll or all…
Yes there is a crab built in to the flight model. Many of us have been asking ED to fix it for some time.
@@schoolio64D Salutes. Thanks for this comment. I was literally loosing my mind and could not understand why helicopter has been designed to fly in cruise with attitude roll or crab in perfect conditions, with forces acting on crew member's spinal cord and butt all over the place but down. Keeping ball in center in a cruise and coordinated turns applies for all aircraft.
This might help me one day. I don’t possess a proper computer at the moment.
dude thanks for the tips.... scouts put !
Absolutely correct. You need to learn to fly everything visually first.
You put it in you take it out. I can easily remember that.
My warthog went crayz when attempting to fly it the first time was thinking was in a jet suttle slow movement is what required for this bird.
Hey School, 82nd first Gulf War, 3rd/75th Somalia and beyond here. Trained with, and called In some Apache favors in the 90s, even saw a CW05 unicorn once. Did they change the gun since the 90s? They never were dead on, but used to have a good circular area of probability you could call In on. In DCS I see most of the rounds are long and left or right. Has the army changed the gun or 30mm loads, or is DCS just hand tied with what they can give us?
No it’s still classified as an area weapon system. The software has no doubt improved since the 90s, but it’s meant for immediate area suppression.
@@schoolio64D Your awesome buddy, glad you joined our community. If you need help with any fixed wing, hit me up! Mind if I pick your brain for one more question? DCS AH64d Question: Is there a way to quickly re-center the view on the Tedac screen like bore sighting the tgp on the a10, f16, f18, etc. Like the A10 II you can just bind OSB 5 some where now and it'll re-center almost instantly, even from gimbal limits. Thanks!
@@tibsimm absolutely! TSD page, right side, bottom button (R6) should be your acquisition source. Set that to fixed, then press the “slave” button on the right handgrip. It will slave fixed forward, and you can hit it again to De-slave and move the TADS around.
@@schoolio64D hey buddy, 82nd/Ranger E6 8 year here. Mind if I ask what ranks you and Casmo were? Curious if you were warrants, 2 3 or 4, or actual help map reading needing officers lol. Sam
@@tibsimm I won't speak for Casmo - he talks about his long and distinguished career in his own videos.
As for me, I did need help reading a map. If you check out my twitch channel, you can find a video there where I'm wearing a Stetson with my current (soon to be retired) rank. I'll just say that the eagle eyes help me navigate now. XD
have you tried hovering using the key board??
But why? 😂
@@schoolio64D joystick is boxed up somewhere only had my pedals and I wanted to fly but was curious to know if anyone was able to do it.
@@GenerationGap69 I haven’t tried but it’s definitely possible. I know there are others who do it. It’s probably a little more difficult, but if that’s how you’re able to enjoy it, then that’s awesome! Thanks for watching!
Pro tip : putting it in and taking it out also works in the intimacy area
Are the apache controls in dcs more sensitive than on a real helicopter?
Absolutely. Not sure why.
64 guy myself, new to DCS and wanting to use it to get more comfortable with symbology, button pushing, etc. Are you using VR or Head tracker? I can't find anything on here that shows the differences seen from the wearer. also, what stick do you use? I want something that has the buttons for Hold Modes and WASing. Thanks, former Hawk Guy trying to drink the Kool Aid, lol!
Hey thanks for watching! For the video used TrackIR, but I use VR when not recording as it picks up every little head movement. VR is fantastic for immersion. I use the Thrustmaster Warthog stick and throttle with a Virpil rotor plus collective and Hawk grip. The Warthog stick works well with plenty of switches.
@@schoolio64D have you looked at the Logitech x-56? i'm trying to build muscle memory for WASing and Hold Modes. Are you using those on the warthog stick? How so? Thanks again.
@@RamadiTaxiDriver60M I haven’t looked at that stick but I know that a lot of people use it. I use a POV hat for the WAS and another 4-direction switch for the trimmer/hold modes. The force trim works, the attitude hold shows up but doesn’t work very well, and altitude hold isn’t implemented yet.
The last bit of advice can be used for your first time date ... just say'n :)
As a practitioner, is the curve setting in DCS the closest to reality? If you look at the actual video, the dcs look hyper-sensitive. What do you think as a working-level worker? Of course, the flight stick program is differnt real flight.
곡선은 곡선이 없는 것보다 현실에 더 가깝습니다. 스틱 감도는 실제 항공기보다 더 높으며 곡선이 경험을 향상시킨다고 생각합니다.
Great stuff 🤘. Gonna share
Which pedals are you using?
Logitech. They’re…sticky.
how you bring up the symbologies on the top left side?
R-CTRL + Enter
Since I got the module my personal chain of "problems" is getting longer and longer... To be closer to heli-like controls I replaced my complete (older) desktop setup with some higher-end gear (at least that`s what people seemed to say ;-) ). Now I'm facing a control sensitivity which might be more realistic, but needs my whole attention. The Ka-50`s auto-hover function let me use the sensors or systems on my own terms and pace, doing a battlefield recon for example. Whereas hovering the Apache now keeps me so busy as a pilot, that I have literally not much ressources left to fiddle with the MPD`s etc. . And, since I found out (the hard way) that the George AI seems to be unable to recognize between friend or foe, I'm wondering how should I deal with that on top? I mean, if the flight model is half-way realistic or not I'm not able to say, but I do love that "flying" an aircraft finally is getting challenging. I have basically "played" every heli game or sim since "Gunship" on C64, but never before the DCS releases I found it satisfying to even spend time with a machine to get "better" in handling it. So, with the AH-64 module something weird has happened, since it`s release... I spent 99% of the time in doing flight exercises and that a flight sim nowadays makes you do something like that is pretty amazing, I think. But now comes the daunting part... How am I supposed, as a single-player, to move tactically across a battlefield doing recon and finding the right targets within many just from the pilot`s seat? Or do you suggest it is mandatory at this point of EA release to hover the heli and manually taking over the CP/G seat? Thanks for your dedication to help out understanding something as complex as a helicopter and its handling!
I think it depends on what you want to focus on. If you want to focus on employing weapons using the TADS, have George fly. If you want to focus on flying from the backseat, the key is to have the George AI control mapped to something you can access without looking, and learning what George does in each mode. For the backseat (with George in front), it’s not too difficult. For example, I activate the AI menu with a button on my stick, then use a 4-way hat on my collective to control him. Have TADS video displayed on an MPD. Push forward on the hat to slave to the pilot line of sight, and when he finds a target, I have “consent to fire” mapped to another button on my stick.
I know that’s not a great answer, but it’s just going to take practice. If you can do it in multiplayer with a human in the front, even better.
@@schoolio64D Thanks that you took the time to write a reply! How would you suggest to handle the AI in a more dynamic environment? Every video I have watched up to now, dealing with the AI in either role, looked like rather limited scenarios where the player knew exactly where to look for enemy units. Like, for example, some included training missions or single scenarios, where a group of enemy units have been placed around a waypoint. A while back I flew a randomly generated mission with the Ka-50 in a CAS role. The usual "units in proximity with the enemy need support" starting point. I excluded unit icons on the map, so I needed to rely solely on my own recon abilities. When I reached the front-line enemy units were pouring into a town, some as a column, some in an open formation. But also own units from outside the urban area tried to get in. It was so dynamic and a little bit overwhelming. Although I could make out the enemy units with the pre-American Civil War video optics, I wasn't able to get a clear line of sight for the Vikhr`s. So, I had to constantly change my position and go with the "flow" of the battle. And now I'm wondering about how I could approach a similar situation with the George AI? Probably it's really like you mentioned, that I would have to switch between stations ... a lot. Yes, Multiplayer would probably be perfect for this scenario, but on one hand I can only make limited use of a mic at the moment and on the other hand: I really really would like to give the impression that I have at least a little idea about what I'm doing. :-) On a side note: After watching your hover video yesterday I tried it myself at once with switched off IHADSS and it felt very satisfying and raw somehow. I saw a lot of "check your surroundings" comments or the uploader even mentioned it in the video, but I haven't come across any video yet, where the player followed his own advice and switched it off then. ...except you! :-) Thanks for that! It sticks much better when you actually see it, than just reading or hearing about it.
@@XShadowY honestly I just put the TADS video up on the right MPD, point George in the direction I want him to look, and constantly have him slave/scan. It's not very efficient, but it's what we have at the moment. The other option is to have George fly and you do the scanning. Positive ID of targets is really only possible using visual identification if you're not using the F10 map.
As an aside, in the AH-64A, unless we were flying at night, we usually didn't wear the HDU. It was only when we transitioned to the AH-64D that we started wearing it both day and night.
@@schoolio64D Thanks for your help, it's very much appreciated! And please excuse my question-spamming, I'm just looking for an effective way to put the puzzle together. The luxury nowadays of having people around who experienced the aircraft in question and are willing to help is quite precious and an overall new experience. When DCS made the jump from "Lock On" and it felt like there are just three people in the whole world playing the Ka-50 module there was not a lot of reference or tutorial material available to help you learning a new machine. The community has always been great, however. When I merely accidentally hit the "Multiplayer" button and my Ka-50 appeared on a runway, on a random server, another one spawned next to me. I said: "I just purchased the module, I have no idea where is what or what to do!?" And the other guy: "No problem, I can guide you through the cold start routine in no time!" 200 hundred years later and suddenly we have such ressources, amazing! Who would have thought that in the 80`s... :-) Thanks so much!
Wait! You’re flying with FMC disabled! Is that why you have big curves on the controls? Please respond! The 2nd part question, is it better to fly with FMC disabled?
I don’t fly with any curves anymore - haven’t in quite some time. I tried flying with the trim off, but that shouldn’t disable the FMC (but it flies like it DOES disable it). When you turn off each axis individually, it doesn’t change anything - you still get the saturated message.
@@schoolio64D yes, i don't like the curves either. The only axis-tune I have is the dead zone of 2 on my rudders because I always rest my feet on them. Thanks for the response.
@@fady904 when I first made the video, the flight model was a lot more sensitive and difficult to fly. As they’ve made some adjustments to the model, I was able to take out the curves. The FM still isn’t perfect, but it’s better than it was at the beginning. Thanks for watching!
Like balancing a marble on a dinner plate lol
The only helicopter I've flown is the Squad UH-60, and even that was fucken hard. I can't even imagine how hard a full sim like the DCS ones must be, even with practice...
Like anything else, it just takes practice.
Tip no 2: Train on heli with 1/3 or 1/2 of max fuel - its much more stable.
Great video, I don't know if this is right or not, but I feel smaller helos are more responsive (twitchy) then larger helos, it seemed to me that when I went from flying the UH-1 Huey to flying the Gazelle, it seemed like the Gazelle was more twitchy or responsive (whatever you call it), please correct me if I'm wrong.
Where's a little story my Uncle told that he had to do to get his helicopter license, my Uncle was a crop duster or AG pilot if you prefer, for his helicopter final flight test I guess it was, he said the instructor setup 4 of those orange traffic cones on a pad (I don't know how big the pad was), My Uncle had to hover the helicopter facing North, While keeping the helo at a hover and facing North the whole time, he had to move it to the Northwest cone touch the front of the left skid to the top of the cone, and without crushing the cone, he had to do a 360 degree spin to the left, keeping the skid on top of the cone the whole time, once he was back facing North, he had to slid the helo over to what would be the East cone and touch the right skid to the top of that cone and do a 360 degree spin to the right, then he had to fly backwards to the South cone touch the left skid to it and do another left spin, then fly to the West cone, touch the right skid to the top of it, do another spin to the right, then come back to center of the pad hover and land, he said it was easier then it sounds. I'm not 100 percent sure, but I believe the helicopter he used was a Bell Model 47, either way, I was impressed, Thanks again for the video, and keep'em coming
Thanks! There are videos out there of helo pilots opening bottles with bottle openers attached to the skids...now that's talent!
The Huey and the Gazelle have two different rotor head designs that lead to different control responses (in real life). Bigger rotorcraft tend to have partially or fully articulated heads, whereas smaller aircraft like the Huey have (had) teetering/partially articulated heads that produce reduced control response.
Thank you for this video. Could you share what controller hardware you are personally using @schoolio64D?
Sure! TM Warthog HOTAS stick, TM Warthog throttle (for power levers and switches), and a Virpil rotor plus base collective with hawk grip. Also have the Logitech/Saitek pedals.
@@schoolio64D many thanks for sharing!
Thanks Cas . . . Wait a minute
😂 Nah Casmo is the king. I’m just trying to contribute where I can. Thanks for watching!
I have my curve set to zero on everything. I hover just fine, but just for shits and giggles I'll try some curve.
If you’re hovering fine, don’t change anything!
@@schoolio64D well out of curiosity I tried 24 curv and wayyyy to slopy. But happily found that 6curv might be a new preference over 0. It's not much of a change but I suspect the long throw of the Virpil cyclic controller is probably why 0 to 6 works so well.
Why won't the apache roll forward with break off unladen and 30% power in missions out side of the take off and hover tutorial? Even with the cyclic full forward it won't pitch the blades far enough forward, can anybody suggest a fix or some help plz??
It should as long as you’re on a runway, ramp, or taxiway. If you’re trying to do it from grass it will take a lot more power. Typically you should only need about 25% to start rolling. Is the parking brake still set?
Add a little crosswind action 😏
This is a video for beginners Sir! 😂
It's been my experience putting it in and leaving it in leads to more short humans following me around asking me for stuff.
😂
Great video, thanks!
(your volume is a bit low)
Thanks! I'll fix that for the next one.
Thanks you really helped