i think it fundamentally changes how they play… it really encourages you to be fighting all the time. it also incentivizes you to loot more and forget about your border settlements, youre happy when they get sacked or taken over since you gain a bunch of grudges on those armies. it also gives you more instant recruit units when you are fighting more, which is different than how the slayer thing worked.
That’s not very dawi like but I understand it’s productive. I personally don’t feel like it’s optimal becouse dawi building is fairly slow in the early game when a few hundred grudges matter and every gold lost is a dwarf warrior less. On legendary tempo and not letting your enemies recover is very good so i don’t experience this much but It’s not realy a thing that fits the dawi mentality of survival
Yes im a novice and thanks to this i finally understand the drawfs. They were not intuitive before and i got confused. Now it's clear and concise what to do. 😊
The biggest change to the dawi ist the grudge System it quit literally force you to kill Ur enemy fast and brutal, the settled grudges with the age of reaconing mechanic is super strong giving faction wide buffs and on the higher stages spawnijg a super strong Free army, and the fact u can confoderate the legendary lords with this System is also quit strong, i had several games were thorgrim washed oder skarsnik and queek, afterwards He pumled wurzag and skraag, and was strengh rank 1.. .....well thorgrim now u are mine and wuuuuup now im the biggest short boy Also the Update to the gyro copters makes the now actually good, and then comes the blimp, the freaking (at the time) strongest doomstack in the game. Im. Pretty sure there is no other doomstack that can Deal with that
I feel like they are kind of strong now. Very strong early game with lots of armour and missile dmg. And later on the best artillery in the game. On the battlefield they feel as strong as the chaosdwarfs. I honestly dont see a world where dwarfs loose to norsca.
What happens when Throg brings 3 full troll armies for every one of your armies? :P Norsca just has way better economy, a much easier time recruiting and maintaining units, and a much more powerful technology tree. The AI doesn't do Norsca justice, just imagine if a player was in control of that faction.
@@CultistOfkhorne Honestly I played only a little bit of Norsca. And they felt very average with kind of dissappointing units. I think you know what you are talking about, and I believe in you saying Norsca is good. Could that be an interesting video to make? Since everyone is hating on Norsca and asking for a rework.
Oh no don't get me wrong Norsca does need a rework, they just aren't weak. Their campaign is as you said a bit unenjoyable, as their unique faction mechanics just aren't something that is fun to use. But their economy is amazing and you can build some fairly strong armies, fairly quickly, as well as good faction bonuses which they have by default make their campaigns extremely powerful.
@@CultistOfkhorne Ofcourse legendary ai can do things like that but in multiplayer campaign it’s not quite so easy, I play a lot of multiplayer campaign with a few friends and a norsca player only realy snowballs if he can snipe the other norscan lords for confed and at that point Malakai or any other dwarf faction can realy bully you with one tunnel using army and a defensive crap stack
I like the dwarfs and I'm only about 60hrs of game time invested in WH3, compared to The Empjre they are much stonger from the get go, I struggled so much with Karl to stabilize the campaign and eventually get my first campaign short and long victory with the dwarfs only took me 2 tries the first time I lost my campaign bc I did a dumb dumb but on my second go it went smoothly. the fact that you can craft gear for your units with the forge and if you fight a lot u get benefits from the book of grudges makes it strong compared to other races
Couldn't disagree more with the placement. By turn 25, if you don't have the entirety of Norsca under your control, you're playing them wrong. Gnollemgrom is very easy to obtain 5+ times in a row, and 50% reduced upkeep on OP grudge settler units makes their economy more than strong enough. This is all on Legendary difficulty. Gyros are so busted atm that Legend did a campaign without a single battle loss with them. You can get them on turn 4 with a tier 2 engineer building. 12 gyros+3 engineers can take on 4 Norscan 20-stack armies at once without breaking a sweat. Don't get me started on Trollhammer Gyros either, they're nearly as strong as thunderbarges if used properly. If you can't get your value out of gyros, that would be a skill issue. They become incredibly tanky with Malakai once you complete a couple objectives in his high elf adventure.
Now play other Dawi factions, and go up against races that destroy gyros. You can say gyros are op, but they are situational, and relying on one unit to win every battle for you, will see you lose battles quite quickly. Not every faction is as strong as Malakai, what happens when you play as Grombrindal and go up against Dark Elves who have massive armor piercing damage and loads of fast moving units? Malakai is very strong yes, but the rest of the race doesn't have all of his mechanics and saying they are just as strong is simply not true.
@@CultistOfkhorne not just gyros are op hammerers are tier 3 now and dwarf warriors tier 0 so basically you can make a trash stack in a tier 1 province that’s stupidly good in auto resolve. The grudge units are all strictly upgrades and make you very good defensively becouse you can instantly recruit them in any region alongside your RoR. In my opinion dawi are now top tier in almost every way. Amazing economy amazing infantry amazing trash units amazing ranged units and the strongest doom stack in the game
@@johannesschillers6784man, I just finished 60 turns campaign for Thorgrim - and nothing special. They are stronger than they were before, have better replenishment and heroes, but they are not by any means snowball race, definitely not one of the strongest. Their army is strong and tough, but in this game army is rarely the main issue for factions. The issue is usually is map control and fast money/development. They still have one of the lowest post-battle loot and money from sacking in the game, so they don't benefit from agressive playstyle as much as many othe races. Their base economy is now top tier, but well, that's why they not weak at last. Their local and global recruitment capacity is also very weak, especially comparing to factions like Kislev who can easily global recruit almost full stack in mid-late game of top units in 1-2 turns due to tech and landmarks. Also, Malakai is an exception, other factions are much weaker then him. Overall, I think they are a good race and I like it, but I can't call it very strong or anything.
So this tier list is confusing to me. Is it based on time to complete long victory conditions, or how the race feels to play thematically, or how fast they can get a full map completion, or some other criteria? Daniel sucks in terms of fun but he doesn’t feel like a bottom tier strength race IMO.
I'm mostly putting Daniel so far down because oh how bad it is to build up his settlements and armies. When playing him, asides from feeling frustrated, I also feel like he is fairly strong, but then I look at the way my armies are all a mess, no cohesion what so ever, my settlements are even worse, if I want to recruit a army that has units from only one god, it is a pain because I have to find where settlements devoted to that god are and if they are built up or not. There is next to no way of increasing your local recruit capacity, so recruiting units is slow and painful, no way of increasing your global recruit what so ever. Empire building/planning is bad, as if you want a good amount of income you will mostly devote to Slaanesh and Nurgle, but if you want Khorne and Tzeentch armies you will ether have to go back to the settlements you devoted to them or use your only 3 global recruit slots. Daniels campaign just feels as though it is punishing you for wanting to optimize, but gives you no incentive not to and in general just seems as though it is a unfinished race. And when ever I go back to look at my campaigns with him, I don't see myself doing any better than when playing any of the races above him, I didn't conquer more of the map, I don't have more armies, I don't have stronger armies, I don't have a better economy etc. Maybe I am being too harsh on him, legend also says he belongs somewhere in the middle, but for me his is the worst race in the game right now for every single category you can think of.
@@CultistOfkhorneStop with the cap you were OBVIOUSLY JUST PRETENDING TO BE PLAYING THEM BUT IT WAS THE AI ALL ALONG AND YOU WERE JUST TALKING OVER IT! Uh huh I've seen trough your manipulation mr cultist smh you should do an ukulele apology video
I also disagree with some of the placements. I wouldn't go as far to throw insults or question whetherhe played them or not, though. However, it does show some clear biases towards certain races. That is fine, after all, because it is a tier list. So, by its very nature, it will be based on the opinion of the creator. It's also not really clear what the criteria for the rankings are, either. Is fun a factor? Is it a full map conquest or how easy it is to do the victory conditions? Who will dominate the hardest after 100 or 200 turns? Long story short, don't take an opinion based ranking system so personally.
@@CultistOfkhorne Well that doesn't mean you know the race well. I am not a dwarf main but seing your ranking i thought of was some kind of trolling ranks but no.Ans sry if that hurted you but it wasn't personnal. Seing your ranking now make me more think of warhammer 2 than the 3.
@@danielgloyd4529 I agree i might be too harsh but the list was so weird that i thought at first it was some kind of trolling. It wasn't and i am now curious what are the criterias used to rank them.
i think it fundamentally changes how they play… it really encourages you to be fighting all the time. it also incentivizes you to loot more and forget about your border settlements, youre happy when they get sacked or taken over since you gain a bunch of grudges on those armies. it also gives you more instant recruit units when you are fighting more, which is different than how the slayer thing worked.
That’s not very dawi like but I understand it’s productive. I personally don’t feel like it’s optimal becouse dawi building is fairly slow in the early game when a few hundred grudges matter and every gold lost is a dwarf warrior less. On legendary tempo and not letting your enemies recover is very good so i don’t experience this much but It’s not realy a thing that fits the dawi mentality of survival
Yes im a novice and thanks to this i finally understand the drawfs. They were not intuitive before and i got confused. Now it's clear and concise what to do. 😊
The biggest change to the dawi ist the grudge System it quit literally force you to kill Ur enemy fast and brutal, the settled grudges with the age of reaconing mechanic is super strong giving faction wide buffs and on the higher stages spawnijg a super strong Free army, and the fact u can confoderate the legendary lords with this System is also quit strong, i had several games were thorgrim washed oder skarsnik and queek, afterwards He pumled wurzag and skraag, and was strengh rank 1..
.....well thorgrim now u are mine and wuuuuup now im the biggest short boy
Also the Update to the gyro copters makes the now actually good, and then comes the blimp, the freaking (at the time) strongest doomstack in the game. Im. Pretty sure there is no other doomstack that can Deal with that
This one's... I actually don't know if this one's going into the book umgi...I'll discus this with the others.
I feel like they are kind of strong now. Very strong early game with lots of armour and missile dmg.
And later on the best artillery in the game.
On the battlefield they feel as strong as the chaosdwarfs.
I honestly dont see a world where dwarfs loose to norsca.
What happens when Throg brings 3 full troll armies for every one of your armies? :P Norsca just has way better economy, a much easier time recruiting and maintaining units, and a much more powerful technology tree. The AI doesn't do Norsca justice, just imagine if a player was in control of that faction.
@@CultistOfkhorne Honestly I played only a little bit of Norsca. And they felt very average with kind of dissappointing units.
I think you know what you are talking about, and I believe in you saying Norsca is good.
Could that be an interesting video to make? Since everyone is hating on Norsca and asking for a rework.
Oh no don't get me wrong Norsca does need a rework, they just aren't weak. Their campaign is as you said a bit unenjoyable, as their unique faction mechanics just aren't something that is fun to use. But their economy is amazing and you can build some fairly strong armies, fairly quickly, as well as good faction bonuses which they have by default make their campaigns extremely powerful.
@@CultistOfkhorne Ofcourse legendary ai can do things like that but in multiplayer campaign it’s not quite so easy, I play a lot of multiplayer campaign with a few friends and a norsca player only realy snowballs if he can snipe the other norscan lords for confed and at that point Malakai or any other dwarf faction can realy bully you with one tunnel using army and a defensive crap stack
I like the dwarfs and I'm only about 60hrs of game time invested in WH3, compared to The Empjre they are much stonger from the get go, I struggled so much with Karl to stabilize the campaign and eventually get my first campaign short and long victory with the dwarfs only took me 2 tries the first time I lost my campaign bc I did a dumb dumb but on my second go it went smoothly. the fact that you can craft gear for your units with the forge and if you fight a lot u get benefits from the book of grudges makes it strong compared to other races
Exactly. He must be talking from the viewpoint of skilled players. But this makes drawfs better for all players
@@simpleman3898 it can be but my point still stands S:
Couldn't disagree more with the placement. By turn 25, if you don't have the entirety of Norsca under your control, you're playing them wrong. Gnollemgrom is very easy to obtain 5+ times in a row, and 50% reduced upkeep on OP grudge settler units makes their economy more than strong enough. This is all on Legendary difficulty.
Gyros are so busted atm that Legend did a campaign without a single battle loss with them. You can get them on turn 4 with a tier 2 engineer building. 12 gyros+3 engineers can take on 4 Norscan 20-stack armies at once without breaking a sweat. Don't get me started on Trollhammer Gyros either, they're nearly as strong as thunderbarges if used properly.
If you can't get your value out of gyros, that would be a skill issue. They become incredibly tanky with Malakai once you complete a couple objectives in his high elf adventure.
Now play other Dawi factions, and go up against races that destroy gyros.
You can say gyros are op, but they are situational, and relying on one unit to win every battle for you, will see you lose battles quite quickly.
Not every faction is as strong as Malakai, what happens when you play as Grombrindal and go up against Dark Elves who have massive armor piercing damage and loads of fast moving units?
Malakai is very strong yes, but the rest of the race doesn't have all of his mechanics and saying they are just as strong is simply not true.
@@CultistOfkhorne not just gyros are op hammerers are tier 3 now and dwarf warriors tier 0 so basically you can make a trash stack in a tier 1 province that’s stupidly good in auto resolve. The grudge units are all strictly upgrades and make you very good defensively becouse you can instantly recruit them in any region alongside your RoR. In my opinion dawi are now top tier in almost every way. Amazing economy amazing infantry amazing trash units amazing ranged units and the strongest doom stack in the game
@@johannesschillers6784man, I just finished 60 turns campaign for Thorgrim - and nothing special. They are stronger than they were before, have better replenishment and heroes, but they are not by any means snowball race, definitely not one of the strongest. Their army is strong and tough, but in this game army is rarely the main issue for factions. The issue is usually is map control and fast money/development. They still have one of the lowest post-battle loot and money from sacking in the game, so they don't benefit from agressive playstyle as much as many othe races. Their base economy is now top tier, but well, that's why they not weak at last. Their local and global recruitment capacity is also very weak, especially comparing to factions like Kislev who can easily global recruit almost full stack in mid-late game of top units in 1-2 turns due to tech and landmarks.
Also, Malakai is an exception, other factions are much weaker then him.
Overall, I think they are a good race and I like it, but I can't call it very strong or anything.
So this tier list is confusing to me. Is it based on time to complete long victory conditions, or how the race feels to play thematically, or how fast they can get a full map completion, or some other criteria? Daniel sucks in terms of fun but he doesn’t feel like a bottom tier strength race IMO.
I'm mostly putting Daniel so far down because oh how bad it is to build up his settlements and armies. When playing him, asides from feeling frustrated, I also feel like he is fairly strong, but then I look at the way my armies are all a mess, no cohesion what so ever, my settlements are even worse, if I want to recruit a army that has units from only one god, it is a pain because I have to find where settlements devoted to that god are and if they are built up or not. There is next to no way of increasing your local recruit capacity, so recruiting units is slow and painful, no way of increasing your global recruit what so ever.
Empire building/planning is bad, as if you want a good amount of income you will mostly devote to Slaanesh and Nurgle, but if you want Khorne and Tzeentch armies you will ether have to go back to the settlements you devoted to them or use your only 3 global recruit slots.
Daniels campaign just feels as though it is punishing you for wanting to optimize, but gives you no incentive not to and in general just seems as though it is a unfinished race. And when ever I go back to look at my campaigns with him, I don't see myself doing any better than when playing any of the races above him, I didn't conquer more of the map, I don't have more armies, I don't have stronger armies, I don't have a better economy etc.
Maybe I am being too harsh on him, legend also says he belongs somewhere in the middle, but for me his is the worst race in the game right now for every single category you can think of.
Nice
NEVER COOK AGAIN ;(
But I love to cook :(
Puting the dwarfs and the wood elves as 'weak' shows you never played them...
Funny how I have 5 videos and 8 livestreams on just the dwarfs, considering I never played them.
@@CultistOfkhorneStop with the cap you were OBVIOUSLY JUST PRETENDING TO BE PLAYING THEM BUT IT WAS THE AI ALL ALONG AND YOU WERE JUST TALKING OVER IT! Uh huh I've seen trough your manipulation mr cultist smh you should do an ukulele apology video
I also disagree with some of the placements. I wouldn't go as far to throw insults or question whetherhe played them or not, though. However, it does show some clear biases towards certain races. That is fine, after all, because it is a tier list. So, by its very nature, it will be based on the opinion of the creator. It's also not really clear what the criteria for the rankings are, either. Is fun a factor? Is it a full map conquest or how easy it is to do the victory conditions? Who will dominate the hardest after 100 or 200 turns?
Long story short, don't take an opinion based ranking system so personally.
@@CultistOfkhorne Well that doesn't mean you know the race well. I am not a dwarf main but seing your ranking i thought of was some kind of trolling ranks but no.Ans sry if that hurted you but it wasn't personnal. Seing your ranking now make me more think of warhammer 2 than the 3.
@@danielgloyd4529 I agree i might be too harsh but the list was so weird that i thought at first it was some kind of trolling. It wasn't and i am now curious what are the criterias used to rank them.