So a few fun little facts. As far as I can tell Quest was the first company to make an overmold disc with the Odyssey. The odd thing to me is it seems odyssey was just a term for them for overmold discs as they seem to exist as putters, mids, and drivers all the same. Quest was for sure their own manufacturer. Eventually the owner decided to go into Brewing beer instead of making discs, which is more common than you think. In another really odd turn for Quest a few years ago out of nowhere there started to be new discs made with old quest molds, and the odyssey became a solid single mold disc. But there was a resurgence of other discs from quest like the crossfire, 10m brick, tbone, turbo putt, as well as a new updated turbo putt. Finally I have to get the history out there. After Quest the next company to take on overmolding discs was RIP Disc golf out of Oregon. The company was headed by a dude name Skip Hamilton and as far as I can tell he made 3 discs total. The Graboide, The Relic, and the Ballistic. The Graboide and Relic are putters with a hard plastic inner core and a rubber outer rim. The Graboide had a giant bead and the relic had no bead. I still have all 3 discs from RIP in my collection and putted with the graboide for years.
The only overmold in my bag at the moment is a MVP fission Wave. I tried a Hex for awhile but eventually returned to the Buzzz. Interesting video on historical overmold technology.
The Innova XT Atlas is an absolute hidden gem. I've had it for years and has been one of the few discs to not leave my bag. Have made so many 150+ ft throw ins with it.
Same here! Great disc. And one special thing with the Atlas is, when it hits a tree, the overmold often buckles on impact in a way, that makes the Atlas not kick but just die and fall down
Awesome to see you throw in the videos greg. I know that tskes a lot of chutzpah. Putting your arm out there for the whole world to see, given all the assholes on the internet. I've been paying a lot of medical bills lately, but next time i have disposable cash, im buying like 3 boxes from you. Appreciate what you do so much. You rock.
Ah the internet, the best worst place around eh? Thanks for your kind words, hope everything about those medical bills settles down for you, we'll be here when you're ready!
When I started playing DG I used to throw a Quest AT Odyssey! I remember it being a very strange disc that if hit right it would bomb, but otherwise it was unreliably squirrely. I still have one of them in my collection, but I do recall one of mine hitting a tree or stump and shattering the flight plate because of the temperature and how stiff it was.
I'm not sure if it ever was PDGA approved, but Gateway also has messed around with overmold on their Prototype 93 (assassin overmold). Also Innova has a 2nd midrange in overmold called the Avatar!
That's exactly what I was gonna say. I bagged an avatar for a little while and it was Understable for the numbers, which are the same as it's single mold counterpart, the lion
I've been a bit Biased on overmolds. With MVP having generaly more flat of a Flight Plate, they feel better to throw on FH. I'm FH dominant and my first handful of aces were with MVP and Axiom. Although I have 6 aces with different Aerobie Arrows, I have 30 aces with MVP, Axiom or Streamline. 3 others with different Buzzz. Working on that #40.😆
I didn't set out to be a gyro-nut, but MVP/Axiom flies super well for me. I'd say 80% of my main bag is gyro. Wave, Crave, Hex,and Proxy are staples im my bags.
I’ve tried so many discs from so many brands, so naturally, overmolds were a part of that. The only overmolds I have in the bag now are the MVP Detour and the Axiom Tempo. I do love MVP plastic and bag some Mint, Thought Space and the Jester Love putter.
Right now I have the Proton Rhythm, Proton Wave, Proton Shift and the Plasma Pyro in the bag. Experimenting with the Paradox and Uplink after I lost my Archer. Also might go DGA Tremor.
I love my atlas. Like throw it every round. The nova I just couldn’t connect with. I guess I’m a fan of over molds because I have a few more in my bag but I honestly don’t notice a difference in distance between the other single molds I have.
2 ideas: 1. I’m hopeful that tone technology from clash will be explored. Particularly comparing how it breaks-in over time with other plastics. 2. Another cool idea is to cut the overmold off of an MVP disc, then take the weight(use a small scale) and volume(use water displacement method to get a volume) to compare the density (mass (weight/g) divided by volume) of the plastics. I’m skeptical that the density is that significantly different between core and overmold.
To be honest, I think in practice overmold is 99% marketing and the remaining 1% is more or less just theoretical. Just watching Simon and Eagle throw, there is nothing unusual with how their discs fly. You have dead straight mids from tons of companies and when you move up in speed, the MVP drivers flip and fade just like any other. I think this is mainly due to the fact, that the flight plate is rather light anyway. The one thing I do like to point out is your gripe about Latitude's plastic choices. As far as I know, even in single molded discs the weight differences are result of added "weight materials" (don't remember the correct term). So the traditional discs are not just plastic but there's also other material that you can use to adjust the overall weight of the disc (bubbles are mostly just for super light weight stuff). What this means is that Latitude may absolutely have had heavier rim material than the flight plate even if the plastic brands were the usual suspects.
I started buying MVP discs early in my DG playing-I thought they looked cool and fit my hand well. The only other overmold I have tried is the Time Lapse. Overmolds don’t have much effect on my game; I only bag two, and not all the time-the MVP Uplink and the Spin.
Totally unrelated......I watched your straight putter video from about 8 months ago. Just for fun, I bought a couple Narwhals. It is now my new distance driver. 😅 Thanks for bringing it to my attention. 400ft with a putter. Flight numbers definitely don't matter with that disc. Should be 11 glide. 😂
I throw only gyro, the science just makes sense! MVP makes it best but I also have a nova, two atlas, and a double steady honey! I really want to get my hands on a tone and a project grip as well!
I bag a complete Discmania bag..... But the Fuji....... Mmmmmm I love how it flys and I'm not a fan of MVP but the 1st run funi will always have a place in my heart. If you decide to get rid of that Fuji I'm your guy!!
I really want to know what disc characteristic allows a disc to drift to the right without tipping to the right. There seems to be something unique with understable discs that don’t turn over but will often stay flat but drift to the right. I usually can get these discs to scoot to the right pretty well without ever turning over and feel like I can trust the disc. But I don’t know what to look for. Parting line is helpful in finding understabilty and dome helps me find how much a disc glide but can’t figure out what keeps a disc from turning over when thrown flat with the same mold
I had a XT Nova for awhile. That was the fastest I've ever had a disc break though. Think Innova needs to figure out how to make them more durable. My friend broke his on his first round. Mine lasted about a month. 4 of us bought 1 the same day and went and played a local course using that disc only as a challenge, disc was cheap and it would be an interesting change. We all liked it just not the part where it broke easily. All of ours broke the flight plate not the overmold itself. Other than that one I bag a Twin Swords, Wave, Crave, and Paradox. The Twin Swords comes out of the bag the most often because I also have a Teedevil that has a nearly identical flight but I usually throw about 10-20ft further with it. That one is getting a little too flippy now though.
The interesting comparison would have been to throw some of the Streamline (single molds) against their identical mvp/Axiom (overmold) counterparts. I've been curious to see how the difference in weight distribution might change the flight?
Not a huge overmold fan, but the Envy is too good not to have in the bag. Especially the eclipse 2.0 runs. I’ve tried a bunch of different mvp and axiom, the Envy is the only one to stick so far; however, the fission dimension is quickly fighting for a spot with my emperors.
I dont think it would take much to measure the difference in Moment of Inertia of MVP/Axiom Fission and their non overmolded counterparts. I assume a spinning plate with low friction and you measure the total angular velocity from a given input torque. But it has been more than 20 years since I took physics. Knowing the difference in moment of inertia would give us a metric for comparing the two styles of discs. How it relates to distance would require a tossing robot though. HEY THEY MADE ONE!!!!
I throw a fair bit of mvp, but not at all bc of any advanced gyro mumbo jumbo that I really think is probably close to total bs. I just like the hand feel, flight, and aesthetics of a lot of their discs - especially axiom. They can be very purdee
Of course Latitude didn't see any benefits from their overmolds, they did them backwards! They used the less durable plastic on the rim edge and the less grippy plastic on the flight plate and inside rim. Combining the lesser quality of each plastic into a disc that is now inferior to both Gold and Opto separately.
I’m not an mvp fanboy, but I do like mvp/axiom (and streamline,) but man the flight numbers are usually so wrong. Once you hit 7 speed…meat hook. But also, only been playing for 14 months… so maybe it’s me. Also, my brother gave me a tomahawk and for a few weeks it was my driver, approach and putter. It’s the perfect beginner disc.
I throw a fair number of MVP/Axiom and one of the major reasons is that after 20 or so beat in throws they fly the same for a super long time. I’ve had the same fission photon in my bag for more than a year and despite a mean chip in the rim it still flies super straight.
The MVP patent (which should never have been granted, IMO), is for a specific density of a tenth of a percent difference in density (I've heard 6.4%). It has to be precise and specific, because they weren't the first to try it, and wouldn't have been granted anything if it was just "A circular item with two different materials", because tyres, spindles, ballbearings and whatnot. That means either enormous headaches trying to manipulate the density of the overmold plastic to exactly match that of the flightplate, or they just say "F it" and mold away. The benefits are minuscule with such a small weight difference, but it does mean that lighter weight discs fly more "the same" as their max weight counterparts. The downside, at least that I've experienced, is that they break in WAAAAY faster and farther than other discs. My personal theory is that melting the two plastics together creates a brittle impact zone that deforms more easily than one-plastic molded discs (I haven't noticed the same on Streamline discs, so it does seem to be specifically overmold discs).
Test weights. I've found Star Destroyers from around 160g up to max weight and Star Wraiths from ~140g to max weight. About 5g intervals could be nice, but discs should be of similar shape (recommend pop top), but maybe try flat and domey. Of course you may test Blizzards etc., e.g Apes and Bosses are good cases because normal ones are somewhat stable, but IDK what's the point in testing a light US disc in Blizzard because that's just gonna flip. And remember Time Lapses are not the same in Fission and the regular whatevers, Fission has lover PLH.
Overmold as is in you found air between them/hooks points inside not showing outside? Halo/Orbit/Horizon and such are 2 plastics mixed together so the rim being one color and then being mixed inside but very little to conjoint.
These Orbit/Halo discs are not overmolds. While they contain two different plastic colors, they are all molded at one go making them single mold discs.
I assume there will be a part 2 covering other technologies like Clash's Tone undermolding, Lat 64 project grip, and Temu discs.
So a few fun little facts. As far as I can tell Quest was the first company to make an overmold disc with the Odyssey. The odd thing to me is it seems odyssey was just a term for them for overmold discs as they seem to exist as putters, mids, and drivers all the same. Quest was for sure their own manufacturer. Eventually the owner decided to go into Brewing beer instead of making discs, which is more common than you think. In another really odd turn for Quest a few years ago out of nowhere there started to be new discs made with old quest molds, and the odyssey became a solid single mold disc. But there was a resurgence of other discs from quest like the crossfire, 10m brick, tbone, turbo putt, as well as a new updated turbo putt.
Finally I have to get the history out there. After Quest the next company to take on overmolding discs was RIP Disc golf out of Oregon. The company was headed by a dude name Skip Hamilton and as far as I can tell he made 3 discs total. The Graboide, The Relic, and the Ballistic. The Graboide and Relic are putters with a hard plastic inner core and a rubber outer rim. The Graboide had a giant bead and the relic had no bead. I still have all 3 discs from RIP in my collection and putted with the graboide for years.
Thank you for the additional details.... very interesting.
Professor, we salute you. Thanks for dropping this knowledge.
Twin swords is a slept on disc
The only overmold in my bag at the moment is a MVP fission Wave. I tried a Hex for awhile but eventually returned to the Buzzz. Interesting video on historical overmold technology.
The Innova XT Atlas is an absolute hidden gem. I've had it for years and has been one of the few discs to not leave my bag. Have made so many 150+ ft throw ins with it.
Same here! Great disc. And one special thing with the Atlas is, when it hits a tree, the overmold often buckles on impact in a way, that makes the Atlas not kick but just die and fall down
Awesome to see you throw in the videos greg. I know that tskes a lot of chutzpah. Putting your arm out there for the whole world to see, given all the assholes on the internet. I've been paying a lot of medical bills lately, but next time i have disposable cash, im buying like 3 boxes from you. Appreciate what you do so much. You rock.
Ah the internet, the best worst place around eh? Thanks for your kind words, hope everything about those medical bills settles down for you, we'll be here when you're ready!
Innova has three overmolded discs, Atlas, Avatar and Nova
Ah yes, the Avatar, thanks!
When I started playing DG I used to throw a Quest AT Odyssey! I remember it being a very strange disc that if hit right it would bomb, but otherwise it was unreliably squirrely. I still have one of them in my collection, but I do recall one of mine hitting a tree or stump and shattering the flight plate because of the temperature and how stiff it was.
I'm not sure if it ever was PDGA approved, but Gateway also has messed around with overmold on their Prototype 93 (assassin overmold). Also Innova has a 2nd midrange in overmold called the Avatar!
Innova Avatar feels left out
That's exactly what I was gonna say. I bagged an avatar for a little while and it was Understable for the numbers, which are the same as it's single mold counterpart, the lion
As a primarily MVP thrower I can say over old has helped my forehand greatly
I've been a bit Biased on overmolds.
With MVP having generaly more flat of a Flight Plate, they feel better to throw on FH. I'm FH dominant and my first handful of aces were with MVP and Axiom.
Although I have 6 aces with different Aerobie Arrows, I have 30 aces with MVP, Axiom or Streamline. 3 others with different Buzzz. Working on that #40.😆
I didn't set out to be a gyro-nut, but MVP/Axiom flies super well for me. I'd say 80% of my main bag is gyro. Wave, Crave, Hex,and Proxy are staples im my bags.
Im here for the Zion
Woo Throw Pink!!!
I grabbed an Atlas when they first came out and absolutely loved it, until I lost it lol
I’ve tried so many discs from so many brands, so naturally, overmolds were a part of that. The only overmolds I have in the bag now are the MVP Detour and the Axiom Tempo. I do love MVP plastic and bag some Mint, Thought Space and the Jester Love putter.
Right now I have the Proton Rhythm, Proton Wave, Proton Shift and the Plasma Pyro in the bag. Experimenting with the Paradox and Uplink after I lost my Archer. Also might go DGA Tremor.
I love my atlas. Like throw it every round. The nova I just couldn’t connect with. I guess I’m a fan of over molds because I have a few more in my bag but I honestly don’t notice a difference in distance between the other single molds I have.
2 ideas:
1. I’m hopeful that tone technology from clash will be explored. Particularly comparing how it breaks-in over time with other plastics.
2. Another cool idea is to cut the overmold off of an MVP disc, then take the weight(use a small scale) and volume(use water displacement method to get a volume) to compare the density (mass (weight/g) divided by volume) of the plastics. I’m skeptical that the density is that significantly different between core and overmold.
To be honest, I think in practice overmold is 99% marketing and the remaining 1% is more or less just theoretical. Just watching Simon and Eagle throw, there is nothing unusual with how their discs fly. You have dead straight mids from tons of companies and when you move up in speed, the MVP drivers flip and fade just like any other. I think this is mainly due to the fact, that the flight plate is rather light anyway.
The one thing I do like to point out is your gripe about Latitude's plastic choices. As far as I know, even in single molded discs the weight differences are result of added "weight materials" (don't remember the correct term). So the traditional discs are not just plastic but there's also other material that you can use to adjust the overall weight of the disc (bubbles are mostly just for super light weight stuff). What this means is that Latitude may absolutely have had heavier rim material than the flight plate even if the plastic brands were the usual suspects.
I started buying MVP discs early in my DG playing-I thought they looked cool and fit my hand well. The only other overmold I have tried is the Time Lapse. Overmolds don’t have much effect on my game; I only bag two, and not all the time-the MVP Uplink and the Spin.
Totally unrelated......I watched your straight putter video from about 8 months ago. Just for fun, I bought a couple Narwhals. It is now my new distance driver. 😅 Thanks for bringing it to my attention. 400ft with a putter. Flight numbers definitely don't matter with that disc. Should be 11 glide. 😂
You haven't done a video on the glow time of glow plastics, maybe you could visit that given new the new formula by Innova.
I throw only gyro, the science just makes sense! MVP makes it best but I also have a nova, two atlas, and a double steady honey! I really want to get my hands on a tone and a project grip as well!
I bag a complete Discmania bag..... But the Fuji....... Mmmmmm I love how it flys and I'm not a fan of MVP but the 1st run funi will always have a place in my heart. If you decide to get rid of that Fuji I'm your guy!!
I really want to know what disc characteristic allows a disc to drift to the right without tipping to the right. There seems to be something unique with understable discs that don’t turn over but will often stay flat but drift to the right. I usually can get these discs to scoot to the right pretty well without ever turning over and feel like I can trust the disc. But I don’t know what to look for. Parting line is helpful in finding understabilty and dome helps me find how much a disc glide but can’t figure out what keeps a disc from turning over when thrown flat with the same mold
I think dome also plays a role in the glide/flip balance. Pete Ulibarri had a great video on why discs turn, I'd recommend checking that out
The Twin Swords and the Hou Yi are the two best drivers I've thrown from Yikun by far.
I had a XT Nova for awhile. That was the fastest I've ever had a disc break though. Think Innova needs to figure out how to make them more durable. My friend broke his on his first round. Mine lasted about a month. 4 of us bought 1 the same day and went and played a local course using that disc only as a challenge, disc was cheap and it would be an interesting change. We all liked it just not the part where it broke easily. All of ours broke the flight plate not the overmold itself.
Other than that one I bag a Twin Swords, Wave, Crave, and Paradox. The Twin Swords comes out of the bag the most often because I also have a Teedevil that has a nearly identical flight but I usually throw about 10-20ft further with it. That one is getting a little too flippy now though.
The interesting comparison would have been to throw some of the Streamline (single molds) against their identical mvp/Axiom (overmold) counterparts. I've been curious to see how the difference in weight distribution might change the flight?
the nova is at my local store I seen it and it looked like it would disintegrate on the first tree decided not to buy it but now I wish I did
Not a huge overmold fan, but the Envy is too good not to have in the bag. Especially the eclipse 2.0 runs. I’ve tried a bunch of different mvp and axiom, the Envy is the only one to stick so far; however, the fission dimension is quickly fighting for a spot with my emperors.
I dont think it would take much to measure the difference in Moment of Inertia of MVP/Axiom Fission and their non overmolded counterparts. I assume a spinning plate with low friction and you measure the total angular velocity from a given input torque. But it has been more than 20 years since I took physics. Knowing the difference in moment of inertia would give us a metric for comparing the two styles of discs. How it relates to distance would require a tossing robot though. HEY THEY MADE ONE!!!!
I have a friend who has the Twin Swords that we call the “tree destroyer” as it always seems to hit a tree.
I throw a fair bit of mvp, but not at all bc of any advanced gyro mumbo jumbo that I really think is probably close to total bs. I just like the hand feel, flight, and aesthetics of a lot of their discs - especially axiom. They can be very purdee
This video came out just before SmarterEveryDay's video inside MVP's factory tour. They mentioned European plastics, might have been for L64.
Twin swords is a favorite of mine
Innova actually released another overmold disc the Avatar. Supposed to be like a combination of a bunch of their mids
I putt with the tortoise fruit meteor hammer
I bag the Zion and the Fuji and they will NEVER leave my bag
Learn to throw the Nova and you'll be a good player. It is the only true straight disc if you release it straight.
No conclusion or final thoughts on effectiveness of over molds? Curious to hear your opinion
Of course Latitude didn't see any benefits from their overmolds, they did them backwards!
They used the less durable plastic on the rim edge and the less grippy plastic on the flight plate and inside rim.
Combining the lesser quality of each plastic into a disc that is now inferior to both Gold and Opto separately.
My b. You kindof address this 2 seconds later.
Thanks!
I’m not an mvp fanboy, but I do like mvp/axiom (and streamline,) but man the flight numbers are usually so wrong. Once you hit 7 speed…meat hook. But also, only been playing for 14 months… so maybe it’s me. Also, my brother gave me a tomahawk and for a few weeks it was my driver, approach and putter. It’s the perfect beginner disc.
I've tried MVP over molds. I felt the rim plastic was too feeble and easily damaged.
Interesting. My mvp over molds have held up great over the last couple years
I throw a fair number of MVP/Axiom and one of the major reasons is that after 20 or so beat in throws they fly the same for a super long time. I’ve had the same fission photon in my bag for more than a year and despite a mean chip in the rim it still flies super straight.
The MVP patent (which should never have been granted, IMO), is for a specific density of a tenth of a percent difference in density (I've heard 6.4%). It has to be precise and specific, because they weren't the first to try it, and wouldn't have been granted anything if it was just "A circular item with two different materials", because tyres, spindles, ballbearings and whatnot. That means either enormous headaches trying to manipulate the density of the overmold plastic to exactly match that of the flightplate, or they just say "F it" and mold away.
The benefits are minuscule with such a small weight difference, but it does mean that lighter weight discs fly more "the same" as their max weight counterparts. The downside, at least that I've experienced, is that they break in WAAAAY faster and farther than other discs. My personal theory is that melting the two plastics together creates a brittle impact zone that deforms more easily than one-plastic molded discs (I haven't noticed the same on Streamline discs, so it does seem to be specifically overmold discs).
Test weights. I've found Star Destroyers from around 160g up to max weight and Star Wraiths from ~140g to max weight. About 5g intervals could be nice, but discs should be of similar shape (recommend pop top), but maybe try flat and domey. Of course you may test Blizzards etc., e.g Apes and Bosses are good cases because normal ones are somewhat stable, but IDK what's the point in testing a light US disc in Blizzard because that's just gonna flip. And remember Time Lapses are not the same in Fission and the regular whatevers, Fission has lover PLH.
I'm still super sad that the Latitude 64 Gobi is not available anymore... It is my favourite mid ever made.
Great content, but I don’t like how much attention Yikun is getting. So many great manufacturers out there to discuss.
I have a Latitude 64 Pure(White w/ blue rim), and when I cut it in half, it was an over mold.
Overmold as is in you found air between them/hooks points inside not showing outside? Halo/Orbit/Horizon and such are 2 plastics mixed together so the rim being one color and then being mixed inside but very little to conjoint.
These Orbit/Halo discs are not overmolds. While they contain two different plastic colors, they are all molded at one go making them single mold discs.
I'm so over-molds👎🏻, fly straight and far with over-mildew👍🏻 🥏.