Comparing Cam Plate Oil Systems ( S&S, Feuling, Harley Stock) | Shop Talk Episode 6
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- Опубліковано 14 сер 2018
- Today we went over 3 Cam Plate Oil Systems and the benefits of each. We look at S&S, Feuling, and a Harley Stock system. Check it out in this latest shop talk episode
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Outstanding video. it's 2024 and I'm fixing to upgrade cams, plate and oil pump so this video is much appreciated.
Very informative comparison; I’m running S&S gear drives in my 06 Electraglide and the Fueling plate and pump. But also using the S&S crank.
great video. lots of awesome info. My 103 with Fueling camchest kit and Freeway flyer cam really did the trick. Oil pressure at idle hot 30lbs on the highway 50 - 60 lbs. And the bike runs great. Will be doing the SG soon and will probably go with S&S . Looks like both are very similar .THANKS for the videos and info
I had a real nice chat with Aaron a couple of days ago. I'm from the east coast of Canada and ride to Arizona and California each November. Pretty sure my 2019 RKS is going to get the full deal. Love the video. Light years ahead of what I've seen.
I was going to install fueling but your review convinced me to buy the S&S...Installing on Monday
Your review convinced me to go with the S&S cam plate and oil pump for my 2018 CVO Road Glide. Thanks.
That is a very good choice.
that odd music in the background is quite distracting
I can't stop laughing!
No shit !
Kinda demonic creepy
I love it
Absolutely agree !
Many a youtube instructional video is ruined by crazy ass music, I dont see the point.
Fire the band in the back ground, great presentation of the difference between them. Thanks.
Sasquatch is a friend of mine and BTW the blue anodized S&S makes me happy even though I can’t see it through the cover...stay thirsty my friends
Magickal tech stuff for grownups. I thank you!
Nice content! I've decided to go with the s&s in my twin cam 88
I realize that this is an older video, but, I wonder what you guys think of the new Zipper’s cam plate. I’m using the Feuling OE+ oil pump, and I’m getting about 20psi, at idle, and 59psi at WOT. This is on my 2015 SGS w/ a 110”
Even years pass and yet, the Squatch lingers👍
Excellent video, thanks for sharing!
Love watching you guys a lot of good info. I recommend to all my friends to watch Moonshiners. I have a 2018 road glide special about to put a RS468 in it. The dealership says I don't need to change the cam plate and pump. Says it's not that great increase in horsepower to warranty that. Just wanting some feedback
@Derrickbarbee3752 did you figure it out? I'm in same boat now. from research I'm thinking a reaper 465 cam and just updating to the 2020 oil pump instead . seems the lighter cam is OK with stock components
Good job on explanations ! And side by side......
Money is not the issue and i'm sold on S&S, I love all there stuff and swear by them, but what do you suggest? Chain or gear drive? Thanks!
How do these compare to the Screaming Eagle Cam Upgrade Kit?
Will installing the Fueling or S&S oil pump assembly stop the engine oil loss in my stock 2020 M8 Electra glide engine?
2 years later, any updates? Are you still using both of these, or do you primarily use one over the other?
I want to install a S&S oil pump cam plate along with the Woods 22xe cam. I currently have a stock 2017 FLTRU. The runout on the crank shaft is measured .006. S&S states their max runout tolerance is .005. What are my options? Is the .001 outside of the stated max allowance a recipe for disaster?
How does the complete Fueling Setup cost for M8 114, and how much does complete setup cost for S&S?
So which oil pump do you recommend for Milwaukee 114 engine. Looking for a Cam, pump, exhaust and tune
would putting the s&s cam plate oil system in my 2020 street glide void my warranty?
SE 131 kit upgrade with RS 472 cam, which cam plate and oil pump do you suggest??
So if I have a 21 Harley I can do cam swap and keep stock oil pump or still suggest to change?
The video was informative but at no time did you all discuss the flow rate for any of the HD oil pumps - 2017 - 2020. You did talk about him much more flow was available with the S&S and Fueling. What id the flow rate of the 2020 oil pump that is stock on HD 2020 Road Glide Special? Please
Can i use the aftermarket pupms with my stock cam plate ?
How can you tell what iteration of oil pump a bike currently has?
Very informative on Sasquach and products
Fueling Race Series oil pump and cam plate vs S&S oil pump and cam plate on a Harley M8 114?
there both nice pieces. shame you have to put a cover on them. side note: im a fan of the brass inserts on the plate.
They are bronze bushings, brass is too soft of a material. Just an fyi.
A lot of great information and some good humor as well. Looks like S&S is the way to go. Prior to Sasquatch sightings, I have always experienced an overpowering waft of odor that could only be described as goat vomit wrapped in dirty diapers. Do you concur?
That could also be the skunk ape...
Great info thanks!
I got the S&S 100” kit made my old 88” a monster along with the 585 cams
Great to hear your 100ci is doing good and that you are happy . There is one thing they say about building up the twin cam.
The more you build it the more it's likely to have run out on the crankshaft. Harley pressed the crank together and that is the problem.
If I ever need to split my cases I'll be buying an S&S crank, that is really the best fix. or buy an S&S engine.
Yeah I know all about that dang run out I was thinking maybe after I put a few miles on this engine going to buy the S&S 124 kit that way I am force to not be lazy on the bottom end
Good video the Taliban music in the background good touch LOL
Lmfao...
Great video...I'm getting ready to do this on an 04 twin-cam...I won't ask who you recommend, but I ask who has the most complete kit once the cam cover is opened. I want to buy 1 big box and be done with it, get home and get it done.
matt8863 fueling,one big box,with everything.Look up their website.Look up S&S as well.
matt8863 call us and we’ll send you one box with the right parts for your riding style. Ask for Aaron or Jamie at Moonshine Harley 615-274-4170.
I've been considering the camchest kit from fueling.
But the bike is 20 years old
I dunno man
What about the twin cam ? I have a 2005 TC 88 and am considering the S+S kits .Depending on run out id like the gear set up, failing that the Hydraulic cam chain tensioners . Both these S+S kits have the works, adjustable push rods, lifters , up graded oil pump , cam plate you get the idea . SO my question is what would you consider the BEST? The S+S or the Fueling components 🤔. I've got my mom and pop shop saying S+S and Mr Harley saying Fueling . Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.👍🇺🇸😎 I know this is an old post.
Im surprised Harley didn't say SE
On my 2020 Roadglide, when I check the oil level cold it indicates full, when hot it checks 1/2 quart low. Any ideas or opinions?
Turn off your bike with it straight up. After the engine stops moving place on side stand, then check oil.
S&S cam plate and oil pump coming soon to my RKS along with a red shift 468 cam!!! cant fukin wait!!!
Will they compare
Twin cam plates and pump?
Best Harley videos on youtube. LoL
Own an 02 FLSTF, and plan on inspecting the cam tension shoes. I fig since the cam chest was open, might as well update/upgrade a few weak points (oil pump, old school bearings, hydraulic tensioners). I noticed HD came out with a SE version. I mainly run stock motor (stage 1). What kit do you recommend would be worth going with?? Thanks in advance for your help 😉
If you are going to upgrade cams and want to upgrade to hydraulic tensioners it is a good investment.
ua-cam.com/video/pFI2Kd6D2Q8/v-deo.html
S A,watch this video,then go to the Fueling website and S&S website to determine for Yourself what to go with.
This is fucking bad ass... Wicked funny and super informative. I will be going with the S&S set up. Thanx!
That feuling gear is beautiful, any clear cam box covers available?
I want to see that investment.
Roland sands designs have clear cam covers🤙🏻
Do you recommend an upgrade of a Cam Plate and Oil Pump for a Stage 2 bike? or the oem parts are good enough for your average rider?
Luis René Ventura Cruz if you can it’ll just improve your setup not needed for stage two but your engine parts will like it!!!
Could y’all do a video on the SE cam plate and oil pump compared to the rest
Loved the video.... more more more!
Thanks! We've got more coming. One is going live today at 3:30
Of you subscribe to the channel there are around 20 videos out and more coming all the time.
M.V.O _Motorfast if I came down to your shop with my m8 -107 how would you decide between S&S or Zippers for low to mid torque range and replacing pump and cam plate
Mike a Sergeant in the Harley Davidson Army. He has a lot of stripes.
The Harley Channel has their S&S oil pump fail and it destroyed EVERYTHING.
How reliable is the S&S pump? That just about turned me onto Fueling entirely
So how is ist in 2024??? Is fueling hood wait to gi? Whole cam kit...
Got a screaming eagle cam plate and pump eventually going with 525 reaper cam. Mix it up a little 😅
Great video Brother 👍😊
So are you saying that a OEM. Cam plate and oil pump. Is no good for just a bolt in 475 cam with quickie. Push rods it’s all I can afford at this time. Please tell me if this is gonna ruin my 2019 harley Streetglide ??
Crazy. Ray's Videos OEM plate and pump is fine for a stage two. The aftermarket setup are just superior and your engine parts will like it!!!
So.. . Question, the preference feuling over S&S is that the brass cam bushings have a tendency to get chewed up when end play is over 5 thousands is this true???
Both companies pumps/plates have a 0.005” tolerance and will be damaged if run on a setup beyond the specifications.
@@MoonshineHarley Cool thanks, I am leaning towards S&S unless you think Feuling is a better route to go
Great video, but that music...?
You guys make me really love my Ural sidecar rig today's big twins make my Soviet build euro look like a paragon of reliability compared to a Harley that cost 10 times as much
Awesome video. Looks like S&S has better engineering and cheaper too. Thank you guys for taking the time to put this information out.
S&s cam plate and oil pump is almost 200 bucks more than the fueling.
Admirable Akbar!
Which one is better out of the 3
#g0fast . . . would you g0 s&s for the fxdls ... ?
Why would you need more pressure? Pressure is restriction to flow, I would rather have lots of flow and vary velocity which I think S&S has done with the smaller supply passages.
Quality all the way with S&S Motors and S&S parts
It sure looks like the Geo rotor type of oil pump I put in my Triumph
S&s is the better one take it from the guy that has destroyed the fueling one and a factory one b4
I'm leaning towards the S+S gears ,pump ,cam plate ect ( full component up- grade depending on run- out otherwise it will be full up-grade but with hydraulic cam chain tensioners. My independent.shop says S+S but Mr Harley mechanic reckons fueling is better ? You say S+S so what happened.to the Fueling if you don't mind me asking .🤔👍🇺🇸😎 The motor is a 2005 Duece twin cam 88.I realize this is an old post .
@@williamjohnson6517 I've got a 2010 twin cam I wondered if they answered you or not their William I was going to go with the fuelling myself.
what is the soundtrack .. sounds cool
Maneesh de Moor
so , there has already been attempts to retrofit a M8 engine with gear driven camshafts (given low crank shafts run out tolerances , in the region of 3.5 thou/inch ) ... is that correct ?
if so , there is still hope ...
doncarlo5 yes! We install them
Weekly.
@@jamielima5315 well ... there is hope, then ! The twin cam engine is the reason why I stopped buying new bikes ...
I personally ride an old Shovel , but ,as we speak , I'm really considering buying a brand new Harley ( fat boy or softail slim ) . I was just wondering : how often do you encounter an M8, ( based on your homegrown experience),with such a high fly wheel tolerance, that makes a gear driven install not plausible ?
and most importantly , how much do I need to invest , on top of a retail price ! ( Parts + hours )
Last but not least (being the M8 a brand new concept) : which are the flaws that need to be addressed ?
Heck...I have a '17 and 18 FL's and BOTH cranks are out 65 thousands...no gear drives for me...
@@prezpalma9585 dude ! This really pisses me off ...
Harley should just buy their motors from S&S
@24000 miles and a bad Bearing on my 2010 Roadglide custom 96 in. I decided to take out the motor for a major refresh
Went from a 96 to a 107. One key upgrade was a Fueling cam plate and oil pump stock oil pressure 15 psi at Idle, 30 psi throttle on.
Now 30 psi at Idle 55 psi highway.They said something important Fueling was the first.You cannot go to young mechanics today
With out S&S products brought into a conversation.Wanted to do my heads First thing S&S heads 1500.00 for the box.Fuel moto
Has CnC heads on an exchange for 850.ish. I have a guy that will hand port and polish for 650.
The reason you can put gear drive cams in a m8 with no issue is they have a gear driven balancer to hold the insides together.
If you want S&S parts just buy a S&S motor I wanted a number matching motor so I put the best parts I could afford
Darkhorse crankworks bottom total rebuild with HBeam rods
Woods cams , Fueling lifters pushrods oil pump cam chest , HPI throttle body, Vance & Hines pro pipe ,power vision tuner Progressive mono tubes awesome upgrade done 25000 mile ago. I was drooling over a mako shark blue fade cvo Roadglide 43 k pulled up on bike night a group pulled up along side nice looking girl jumps off the back of... a mako shark blue fade cvo Roadglide while her fella was dismounting she walked over and said “Really like your bike “ 43 k saved!
Vincent McClain 'how'd You know it was a bad bearing?
I love the way Harley has adapted the Japanese way of building motorcycles running everything in paraluman them it amazes me how many things are wrong with the Mac in the twin cams and almost nothing was wrong with the Evo motor which was an AMF design and plastic Parts in a hot engine what were they thinking of and what were they smoking
My God how much money do you have to spend to keep your overpriced Harley from blowing up big twins these days are absolutely ridiculous thank God I have a twenty-five-year-old Sportster run like a cop with 350 thousand miles on her
Rad video 🤙😎🇺🇸
Thanks!
Will the S&S cam plate and oil pump void any warranty from harley ?
Probably not. After market tuners are what they are looking for.
Sasquatch got warrants
Do you gotta remove the push rods and cam or can you leave them in to change oil pump and can plate?
Hi Steven! Yes, you have to remove everything to change oil pump and cam plate.
Why would you leave them in?
I don't think you've got enough stripes on your shirt sleeve there captain🤔😳😂😂😂😂👍😎🇺🇸 I'm going S+S 🤔
The stock part is cast aluminum not stamped aluminum, but otherwise good video. Very informative. Oh and the cameraman being odd and talking about Bigfoot. I'm glad everybody else ignored him like that kid in school that thinks he's funny, but really isn't.
So in your opinion, S&S would be the top choice?
I can get you a picture of Sasquatch that lives on the Colville Indian Reservation in North Central Washington. Let me know if you want me to get you a picture. Usually I can get it on Disatuel Pass on Highway 20 between Omak, WA & Nespelum, WA.
Chops Ahoy the mystery might finally be solved with that picture
@@MoonshineHarley I will work on it when I can ride my bike in the spring.
Chops Ahoy sounds like plan. The truth will be told! Haha
@@MoonshineHarley Yes, for sure! I really enjoy your upgrade vids on performance upgrades. Keep up the great stuff. Looks like you guys really enjoy what you do & have fun doing it. Great for you! " People who love what they do, don't work a day of there lives!"
@@chrismorris9065 Amen! Thank you for the support! We appreciate it!
Why wouldn’t you just keep the high flow gears in a “liquid” cooled m8 and utilize a thermostat to maintain operating temperature. You really can’t hurt anything with more oil flow.
Will changing to the s&s does it void factory warranty?
dlawson Lawson yes
Can’t see it unless your motor goes boom.....most of us using these don’t give a flick about warranty by a dealer anyway
Installing the aftermarket plate and pump combination does nothing to the warranty in itself. If there is an issue and it is caused by the pump/plate combo (which is extremely unlikely) it could be an issue. Most likely the negative could be that if there is a component failure that affects the system you may have to pay out of pocket the difference between stock and high performance parts. Pick your repair/warranty and/or dealership with care. Shops like ours don't care what is in it. If it should be warranty we push for warranty.
Whats up on that weird ffing sound track?
It seems like the S&S is the better product. With that, why didn't you all use the S&S on your camshaft shoot out? I noticed you all used the Fueling in the shoot out.
We are not partial to just one great product. We also feel that if we do our best to put out factual information then our customers can make an informed decision and the bottom line is, even though the S&S and Feuling products both have their unique benefits they are both very high quality and I would run them both. FYI... There is a video coming out very soon that focuses set on the S&S pump/plate so I really appreciate you watching and subscribing. Stay tuned.
@@NoName-vz1ob sounds good. I look forward to seeing it
M.V.O _Motorfast will either of these pumps prevent sumping ? Building a 124 and not sure if I should keep the stock pump with the new plate or use one of these ?
@@freedom6919741 yes both will help improve oil return. I would recommend either the Feuling or the S&S if you are building a 124".
@@freedom6919741 i would go with the S&S. Are you doing new conecting rods, cam etc? With the bigger pistons and cylinder walls etc... you will have more surface area and I'm sure you are not building it just to look at it. So if you build up the motor, protect your investment with better oiling.
I was looking at S&S but for the past two years they have gone from $1400 at one point for the kit, to now $2000. Fueling price has only went up about $100 depending where you buy, and its $1600. S&S is just going way up on already overpriced parts. Even their carb is up to $700 now. That's insane. They make good stuff but I can't justify it. A better oil pump will not sway me over. Fueling is gonna get my money. I've only ever heard good things about Fueling.
SAE 660 bronze brinell hardness 65, 6061 t6 hardness 95. S&S bronze cam bearing insert is not harder and more durable than fueling or harley straight up aluminum and, my guess, will not last longer.
John Callahan Bronze has less friction than aluminum and the strength depends on the amount of lead and silicon used to produce it. Bronze is a great bearing especially when used with oil as an additional lubricant. Both the aluminum or bronze can wear but If installed correctly with minimal pinion runout both should last 100,000’s of miles. Maybe I should add that proper maintenance be preformed, example routine oil changes!
I'm calling bro.☆☆☆☆☆
terrible backgroud music...
annoying i still picked sns model recommended ,thanks
What do the after market plates and pumps do to the factory warranty???
They don't hurt the warranty in themselves. Where you can possibly encounter prolems is in the case of a failure involving the oil system (such as a blockage in a passage somewhere) or one of the components themselves. Both Feuling and S&S offer great product warranties on their components, however your average of the mill OEM only dealership may not want to attempt the complexity of an issue. HDCS stands behind the work they do. Call the shop and ask for Aaron. He can answer your specific questions.
Ounce you crack open that engine or any bolt on aftermarket upgrade your warranty is out the window, Harley is very critical in this area. All replacement performance parts and labor must be through H.D. I have used Screaming Eagle big bore kits with no problems but with that said there is much better out there in the aftermarket world. Fueling in my book is the way to go. S&S had a recall with there oil pump. I have a 2018 Electra glide Limited and have just ordered the Fueling cam/pump set along with hooker headers and SS MK 45 slip-on mufflers. Harley keep your warranty.I would rather put the upgraded system in now while the motor is fresh, It's that much better than stock.
@@jefferyosgood9566 if that's what the dealerships you go to tell you they aren't good dealerships. And S&S didn't have a "recall". They made a slight change to plate the design very early on in the process.
Will the S&S set up help with sumping?
Chris Comis yes
PATRIOT821000 Had mine installed Tuesday. Wish that I would have done it from the first sign of problem. So far, no issues what so ever.
Harley would rather pass the sumping issue to the aftermarket world like they did with the twin cam; lifter washout/bypass oil valve issue etc. for example. so Fueling and S&S designed there oil pump/cam plate to address sumping issues and provide better lubricating along with less cam plate flexing for that upgraded cam. All in all it's money well spent and would highly recommend, sooner the better. It's a good peace of mind especially when ripping down the highway at 80 + on a hot day.
I saw sasquach!!
I'm starting to wonder why but a Harley If I'm paying 20k for a motorcycle with mediocre cam plates why bother?
What with the back ground music making me absolutely nuts but thanks for the video fueling over s&s any day of the week.
Please, give me an advice.After starting the cold engine there is a noise from the bottom of the engine.
After 2.33 mute, the noise is reduced.
It is different from the video. 2.33 minutes :ua-cam.com/video/HEr_9QseE90/v-deo.html Thank you very much in advance.
Yo joe!
Which one do you prefer
We've been preferring the S&S due to a number of reasons, such as build quality, functionality. They've just always top notch quality products.
As techs, we prefer S&S.
Which option do you prefer?
H-D Cool Springs will the S&S pump and plate cure the sumping issues with the M8 ?
@@freedom6919741 unlike the forums would like you to believe engine sumping is actually pretty rare. But yes. They help, as does the latest generation OEM pump and cover.
Call Aaron or Mike at the dealership if you have any questions about sumping or parts comparisons etc. We can run your VIN and probably tell what version pump is in your bike right over the phone. Also you can message direct at @m.v.o_motorfast
S&S all the way after this review
Brass is softer than aluminum. It's not more durable it's replaceable. Therefore better. To replace a piece of brass then your cam or your crank.
Great vid, ditch the weird music.
oK
Bushes are bronze not brass, brass hard non lubricating bronze is soft and self lubricating but interesting thanks
Yeah they knew that. I don't think the video is scripted.
dig the video but the exorcist music in the back round was a little weird.
What’s up with the bollywood music?
really.whats with the tunes.