The Fall of the MARINEMASTER! (Seiko Marinemaster SJE097)
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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Seiko releases a $2800 watch, featuring a dial, that looks like it came from a $200 watch.
Yea the dial doesn't look high end. Omega does the same thing. $4000 dollar with a dial that looks like a child drew waves on it. Seamster*
@@EscapementWatchThis dial looks even more like an Aqua Terra…with an even higher price tag
@@EscapementWatch I think more to the point is that there are huge glaringly visible QC issues on the dial with regards to index edges. How can anyone justify paying $2800 with a dial that looked like it came from a Pagani factory.
@@kl5696 maybe because they got different movement and different finishing, i guess?
Wait till you see a Rolex, looks like a $20 watches black dial.😂
I always appreciate how detailed you are in your reviews.
Was thinking of picking this up until Seiko announced the new (yet again) 62MAS in June. Great review as always!
I'm waiting for the next 62 mas as well but I do wish it has these bevels
@EscapementWatch Totally agree, guess we just can't have it all can we, haha
Yaaaa unless buy both and do a swap. I'm pretty sure the case back will fit the MM case
@@EscapementWatch I'm beginning to think that's Seiko's grand plan, haha
That dial finishing is put to shame by many an alixpress brand! They can manage a modern spec bracelet too!
Good review. As with other new Seikos is the crown tube replaceable like on the SLA055?
not sure... only way to tell is to take off case back remove crown and look inside barrel which i did not do as this watch is new and will be sold soon. Grand Seiko divers and LX line have replaceable crown tubes and the new sla055, so this one could have it. But even if it is pressed a good watch maker should be able to replace it still with proper tools. It is just harder to do. The mm300 crown issues are because I believe it is soldered in not pressed... for the He gas so those are not serviceable. Making the mm300 not a great buy. Replacement cases in the $1000's
This primitive seiko dive extension always makes wearing the bracelet uncomfortable and leaves a red mark on the wrist after just a few hours of wearing it.
Look at the price on the magazine, 13000 yen , at today is equivalent to 43000 yen , which is around 300 usd….and we have to pay thousands for this piece…
I love your Reviews ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Glad you like them!
Hey, is the display back actually "Sapphire crystal" confirmed?
Imo, the biggest eyesore on these new MarineMasters is the overly aggressive bezel edge. It’s like wearing a saw blade on your wrist
I like it.
I might be buying this. Especially the limited. But I will say this. It should not have been below 42mm. That to me is crazy especially for a MM.
That finishing on the indices is an embarrassment.
I don't mind the dial as it's a tool watch. In fact, fewer people would complain if it were a matte black very-tooly dial, but the clasp and movement (there are reports of how unpredictable these movements are) are a big letdown.
The bracelet is sh*t. Get screws please. The only reason I like my turtle is thanks to strapcode.
Seiko shines between 500 and 1000$, but more than that, go for other brands or save for Grand Seiko.
6L are incredibly predictable and the architecture is even used in Credor watches which is above Grand Seiko. I think your confusing the 6R with the 6L. Completely different movements from the ground up.
im sorry but if seiko is going to charge 2k plus for a watch that fkn thing better be IMMACULATE how THE FUCK IS THERE STILL QC ERRORS , badly finished indices , shit lume , sharp edges . misaligned bezels the complete shit bezel action ( the watch feels likea basic ass Samurai when you turn it ) i was shocked when i handled it , it feels like something out of the King divers line ( king samurai king turtle etc) which are good watches but they are like 5-6 hundred vs thousands of dollars . wtf seiko
@@nerychristian I love the 62 mas re-issue.. especially with the uncle Seiko jubilee..
Interesting review from you but I’m not convinced at all by this watch. I like the bracelet except for the extension. This dial makes the watch look cheap. The power reserve and the see through back are ridiculous. The price is incredibly high for what you get.
It seems to me that it’s a marketing affair more than an horological improvement. This watch shouldn’t bear the name Marinemaster.
It’s a shame for its ancestors. I own about 10 Seiko divers in my collection and this one will definitely never join. For this kind of money I’ll stick to my beloved MM 600 Spring Drive which is on a totally other level.
Leave the 62mas alone seiko. Anything different isn't 62mas
Downvote for reviewing a watch already sold out. 12.5mm but sits too high? Maybe hit the gym, ace.
Well, the problem isn't the 12.5mm thickness-it's your understanding. The height is on the caseback and it lifts the watch, I don't mind 13mm thick if its on the top side and the watch is sitting flush on the wrist. Maybe hit the library, ace.
$2800? lol
Ugly design to be honest.. looks like a micro brand mixed with a lot of un-original designs taken from everywhere!..
A beauty of a piece. My one negative would be the all steel bezel, it could have been out of this world with a white ceramic bezel insert !
yeah white and black would look killer!
Is that a titanium carbide coated?
I like seiko but realy love seiko who have central crown,i tired of crown at 5...with seiko you have the same watch for 250$ or 8000$,,,same look...realy boring...so welcome to other design
The poor quality of the dial 😅 No way 😂 Is Seiko going crazy?
Well I’m still not sold on this, but I’m way more open to it than I was before. Particularly that case shape. As usual you’ve done a much better job than Seiko of selling this piece, even with the criticism.
Oh yeah this case on the SJE093 with an black anodized aluminum insert would be my dream Seiko diver.
Just wait a year or 2. Once Seiko decides and tools a case you know that they will churn out so many colour / dial and bezel variants
Nice Tag Heuer Aquaracer
Seems like a step down from recent 62mas releases and a rather strange combination of features
its 700 less then the recent 62 re release as said in video
I actually don't mind it one bit.
I don't like the date window (round) and the dial background (those stripes)
Gorgeous watch! Those are very substandard features on the bracelet for a $2800 watch, though.
Pins and collars definitely better then screws. For screws you have to use special sealant and you can damage bracelet links with screwdriver... so pins and collars are way better solution
I love it, but for 2800$ i could get a bunch of lower tier seikos which are just as fun
The pressed dial looks cheap
In short, everything considered, this is a major fail by Seiko.
That dial is a crime.
I want it! but i want all seikos lol
realistically its too small for my wrist and if i was able to spend 3000$ on a watch, i would save money and get a second hand GS diver or a third hand or fourth.. you get my point.. :)
The first time I saw it I thought it was a mod, when I actually realized it was real I was disappointed. For me the name "marinemaster" is associated with 300m and a monobloc box, they detract from the name
I don't like it, and SEIKO is my jam.
Looks like an Omega Aqua Terra dial. Marinemaster feels out of place on a 200m divers. Should be 300 me at least. Overall lack of cohesion. It feels like the watch is searching for its identity, which is a no go for this price. Hard pass.
yeah the Omega style dial is the biggest negative for me personally.
Damn nice MarineMaster !
I agree about the lack of a solid Case-Back .
Another release to create a Conflagration 🔥🔥 in the SEIKO community 🫵
It would be nice if Seiko made the bracelet fit properly. If a sub $100 AliExpress watch can do it, i think Seiko can too... Good review buddy.
It doesn’t work like that, there are patents involved and testing of tolerances against warranties. Most brands just order an off the shelf clasp from China. Seiko will catch up but not for another couple of years
Seiko lost my business a long time ago. QC issues, cheap bracelets, over priced, and far too many homages of their own pieces. My husband totally agrees.
Wonderful watch especially the blue one ( sje099) but too expensive
the polar dial is beautiful.
I got sje101. It’s amazing. End game for Seiko divers to me. Pretty much a GS. Date window doesn’t bug me in real life. Looks amazing from 5-10ft
yes I can see it being a one and done seiko diver for many! (The only seiko diver you need) was the original title for this video but went with more drama to try and get views lol
I hated this watch out of the box: the date window, the thick case back, the horizontal lines on dial, the stupid clasp extension. But once i put it on, sized, its excellent. It’s not so beautiful that I stare at it, it’s light, the bracelet is thin and has some flex which makes it comfortable to wear. I still hate the extension looking at it but I don’t feel it. The date window allows for symmetry of indices and you don’t see it unless you look for it. It’s the perfect dress/diver imo.
100% this watch really grows on you. I had a similar experience.
Thst scrufy dial and tinny clasp is classic seiko taking the piss out of consumers.
I am warming up to this release, slowly.
It has that effect!
Great review as always. Love the size and the upgraded movement. Don't care whether it's called an MM or not. And I've stopped even considering all Seiko bracelets into my purchase decisions--either it will go on a tropic or a Strapcode or Uncle Seiko. With AD discount, this one's overall in a good space i think between $1k micros and $4k BB58s...until Longines updates the 39mm Hydroconquest...
my man! grey official tropic strap for this one is the answer! That's how I would wear it, or on the grey leather seen in video.
I've seen it at Seiko Boutique. The chasis (case and bracelet DIMENSIONS) is excellent, I like it a lot, modern Seiko's best. The movement is good too. The rest are of the watch are problematic, the dial is REALLY horrible for the high-end Seiko, the too slim minute hand proportion, the colour combo, the unnecessary thickness, and seriously, the PRICE they are asking for it. In my opinion, unless they half the retail price and then discount it, this watch is a flop and should be that way -- to send Seiko our message!
Seiko should ditch that disgusting "X" mark on the dial
Great review… Nice Seiko but too exxy… 😊
The circular date window looks weird to me. Wish they just took it out all together.
its not that obtrusive so I don't mind it too much. But I get that. Expect to see it more and more in the future.
You look weird to me.
People who has never seen it in the metal hates it.. 🙂
(Seiko fan here) I appreciate the great balance of passion, humour, and honesty that you manage to achieve in your reviews. As for this new MM, I like it as a luxury diver, but I would still go for the aging MM300. (I think you should talk more about protective coating found on current Seiko cases. I personally don't see the advantage since it is not scratch proof, and it could make refinishing and laser welding more difficult.)
I heard people say this has diashield coating but usually when Seikos have it, they come with a diashield tag from factory. I don't think this one is actually coated as the steel doesn't look dark like it does on the 63mas which has the coating. And they usually it says "hardcoating" on Seiko website under case. They do not for this new MM line. So I believe it doesn't have it even though I think everyone says it does.
If you go buy any tudor, any rolex, any seiko any watch without this diashield hard coating, youll see that your arm hairs will scratch it. Youll be polishing it daily and drive yourself crazy if youre OCD about scratching your watch like me.
I like it. I guess I forgot to take my complaining pills today. Oh well.
Just remember to take it for next months 63MAS refresh!
The bracelet 2 to 3 hundred years for a good bracelet. Lolll cracked me up.
😁
-1s/d is amazing.
That poor dial quality is really unacceptable for this price. The indices looking like that is crazy.
Yawn.....nothing spectacular about the design...
Just make the current Seiko 5 sport dive watch with a screw-down crown with a lumed 12 o'clock pip on the diving bezzle and that's the only dive watch I would ever need.
You can buy a real SKX and do a simple movement upgrade swap.
@@EscapementWatch yeah, but why is Seiko making me do that? to spend more money with them?
the swap wont be done with seiko an aftermarket modder or watchmaker would do the swap. The SKX came out in 96 and at that time the current movement with hacking and handwinding didn't exist.
I love it.
If you have a UV light, please say if this dial may fluoresce under water. This is important to know for anyone who may use the watch under water. Thank you.
That would be a rare occasion. Most owners, including the black bay, submariners owners etc never wear it in the water. Most they do is maybe leave it on whilst washing the dishes. 😂
They should put 6L in MM200 steelmaster or spb 187 and charge 2k,I would buy it instantly,this movement is better than any sellita.
one day! They did fix the grand seiko sbgw231(12 months after my GS fatal flaw video) So maybe they watch this channel? or it was just coincidence! :P
Absolutely not worth the price, Longines and Oris are offering so much more for similar prices
ahh Oris the most dust in a swiss watch consistently.
Didn’t know that was an issue!
Yeah they never clean their crystals on the underside. Very annoying for how I film and shoot light. But I review 1 or 2 Oris per year now a days...might skip 2024 with Oris so not a big deal. Also I spoke to Oris over email they said their new Cal 400 in house movement should still be wound up every day or 2. The automatic rotor is not strong enough to TOP it UP! It can only keep it alive much longer. Its a great movement but has some teething issues. And Oris did have that minute jump issue but that's fixed now with an extra gear/cog.
@@EscapementWatch thank you for the insider knowledge
Oris Divers 65 series with Sellita movement in grey market price are top watches💪
Curious to know, have you tested any 6L's that aren't within cosc? They seem to be performing far better than stated
none have done worse then +6s a day so far.
Why is this watch so expensive? It seems to me Seiko is pushing the limit on pricing.
I have a real SUB but I also bought one of these replicas from AMZWATCH for piece of mind if I go to another country or if I am doing activities that can damage the watch. I don't see anything wrong with that.
love your reviews man. helped me go full send on the SNR045 review you did. best camera work in the business
too kind!!! thanks and snr is a beast enjoy!
More Seiko QC issues at an obscene price - yet another reason I will not own a Seiko until they invest in QC
if it means anything....the qc is superior to Tudor's for less money. hang out in the tudor forums on reddit and see there is a qc horror story very often! the latest one i saw was a scratched dial, AD agreed its scratched on the inside and tudor wont warranty it. I was going to make a short showing about 10 tudor qc issues but didn't have the time. I still might. I love tudor don't get me wrong as I own 2 but qc isn't their strong suit.
Amazing😍
Thank you! Cheers!
Looks much better than any tudor black bay, but the finish on the indices is pretty bad for the price point.
It's good to reward ourselves sometimes . While I'm not one to spend on high-end watch (I spend too much money on travel, lol), I can appreciate your gorgeous and timeless watch. I love how it's a symbol of all your hard work.And i choose #nkuwan every time honestly
If it were flat, that crown would be digging you.
the SJE093 caseback is solid and flat and crown doesn't dig me. I'm sure the 093 case back will fit on this watch as well.
Nice looking watch but at $2.8K 😮😮😮
You can save a pretty penny by asking politely to your AD! :) But if you ask the same question to your Tudor AD you get kicked out.
What do you have a 5in wrist that you think this isn’t a “smaller” watch?
I'm just fit and I like 36mm watches. My wrist is 6.7inches.
@@EscapementWatchso am I. I have a 7in wrist and own this watch and mostly 42mm watches. My main issue is the date window is a little too small looking making the date hard to see. This by far isn’t a “larger” watch and it definitely doesn’t stand up on the wrist. It wears extremely thin. It’s a nicely worn watch but “larger?” it is not. But again other things factor in right down to hand and arm size. So everyone is different.
Do you think Seiko will phase out the 8L movement in the prospex range now? Or keep both the 6L and 8L in place? Seems kind of pointless to have both?
I think once they upgrade the 6L with a silicon balance and longer power reserve then I think they will phase out the 8L
@@EscapementWatch do you think Seiko will adopt silicon balance? I know the patent is up but they seem like spron as a material (though I don't know if they just say that because the Swiss had a patent till recently)
I was told a couple years ago Seiko already have completed their in house SI balance spring and its ready for market. No idea what they are waiting for though.
@@EscapementWatch oooh very interesting. Maybe it's due to re developing a whole new movement as well? Is it meant to be going in the 6L or to grand Seiko?
Also any insider info on whether the other heritage divers are getting the SJE treatment?
Grossly inaccurate timekeeping and grossly overpriced. Instead get the Seiko Astron 5x53 series accurate to absolute precision and 200 m waterproof on selected models🤗
Seiko needs to stop with the limited editions and the price increases
I personally love the dial, especially the light blue version, but the price is the bigger offender. Why anyone in their right mind pay almost $3000 for a watch without a COSC certification or equivalent when there cheaper options out there with better automatic movement. Seiko is ripping off its customers.
Seiko is not allowed to get cosc certified. After Seiko beat the Swiss at the chronometer trials they banned all non-swiss countries from the certification. But rest assured I've tested over a dozen of these new 6L movements and they've all been within cosc.
@@EscapementWatch surely there must be an non European equivalent, ex. Spring drive, the current movements they use do not compare to the cheapest COSC available on the market. Again, not discrediting seiko for their history, but they keep coming out with all these “limited” editions and charging prices that do not match up with the quality of the watch.
Regarding Spring Drive, it offers exceptional accuracy surpassing COSC standards (±0.5 seconds per day), as rated by Grand Seiko. For full mechanical Grand Seiko watches, they adhere to the Grand Seiko Standard of -3/+5 seconds per day, which is a one-second improvement over COSC standards on both ends of the spectrum. Seiko introduced the Grand Seiko standard certification the year after being barred from receiving COSC certification. As for Seiko's quality matching the price they are comparable to Tudor(which charges more), I did a video comparing a high end Seiko sje093 to my tudor bb54. The results were not as one sided as most would think.
@@EscapementWatch there’s Tudor watches for less than that and with better accuracy. Taking into account the build and bracelet it just doesn’t compare to Tudor at all. In my humble personal opinion of course. This watch is closer to a tag heuer aquaracer …which is not saying they’re bad. They’re just overpriced for what is offered.
My goodness, it is stunning.
As a Seiko fan and long time lover of the MM case design, LX bezel and typeface, I am extremely disappointed that Seiko put the Marinemaster name on yet another 62MAS model, as if we didn't have enough of those already. Seiko has so many iconic dive watch designs, each with their unique case shape and respective fanbase, so why lose this variety and turn everything into a 62MAS frankenwatch? I don't get it. And I don't like it. I will stick to my MM200.
Seiko must have some quiet a humorous fan club and the flow with it, i can not explain it otherwise. My 3 year old son would design end links of the bracelet that integrate better with the case. The bracelet reminds me a universal one that i bought from AliExpress but the difference is that it integrated much better to the case of my watch.
I love Seiko. It’s in my blood. My hearts bits Seiko..
I own a few, quite a few.
Yet my last purchase from the brand was in 2020.
Recent Years are like a bad dream I want to end so much!
It is still my favorite brand, it will always be.
But I it will take a big change for me to invest in a new one.
this one is a big change. All new movement, resurrection of the Marinemaster name, new case new bezel, and insert design. only thing old seiko is the bracelet.
I love it 👌🏽 Seiko must start producing similar quality watches.
That would be cool!
The SJE MM in white and blue are misses IMO, but I find the black dial SJE101 to be quite handsome. That being said, I think I am done with Seiko until they can produce a bracelet that at least competes with micro brands. It’s wrong to buy a $2.5K+ watch in 2024 and need to resort to third party straps.
I can see folks nit-picking here and there (hey, it's almost an organized sport regarding Seiko), but...hating? My main critique would be with the damned clasp (you *knew* I'd bring that up): why not go with the OG MM clasp with that *totally* killer diver's extension? That might've (mostly) made up for the other gripes.
I’m a huge fan of the Marine Master monoblock case. I’m one of the people that really disliked this one. Instead of a unique Seiko design, it looks like a watch inspired by a Submariner and an Aqua Terra.
The finishing on these ribs in the dial is very rough along with the rough edges on the indices is a show stopper. Plus there was dust on one of the bridges I could easily see.
What's going on at Seiko HQ???
Hey another limited edition !!!!
Wow Seiko need to realise that Ali Chinese companies are producing better quality watches then they are. What will happen to the brand in the long term..
I think the black dial version looks much better better. 🤷🏻♂️
The watch is fine. You just have a small wrist!
sizing is perfect. It just sits high. nothing to do with the thickness, but the caseback.
I still can't warm up to this release. And if this round 4:30 date window is a trend, I will not be buying any new Seiko. I understand why it is done, but it just looks like such an after thought to me. Like they forgot to include a date window, so they had some intern go through all the dials with a hole punch
So... paying a $1k+ premium over a SPB143 or SPB453... and all you get is... a movement that is still not as well regulated as you'd expect a SW300 to be at this same price... I Love seiko. Love them. But this, this is kind of an absurd watch.
The case finish quality is a tier above the SPB143 in brushing and polish. Also, super clean handset and about 95% less dust on the inside (only visible with extreme macro and harsh light) so not a big deal but its the knowledge that they put it together with care vs the mid tier.
If it were a GMT, I'd say it looks too much like a Rolex Explorer II.
i guess.... white dial and silver bezel. But I don't really see it with the case shape/dial/hands seiko dna
I've also warmed up to these new Marine Masters. The thing that is keeping me from them is the clasp. I REALLY have disdain for the useless diver extension. I would much rather have no dive extension than that crappy piece of flimsy hinged extension component. Granted, I never will use it. But, I still can't ignore it because it consequently creates a weird look to one end of the clasp as well as preventing the bracelet from laying down flatter and nicer. If you could recommend a replacement for that clasp that works, please do. Otherwise, I guess wait for a decent aftermarket bracelet replacement? But, that'll just push the overall price that much higher than I think it's already a bit over priced at.
You can try the MM300 clasp as it is 18mm but its bulky and doesn't suit this skin diver.... Grey tropic strap is the answer! Seiko divers belong on a tropic imo, especially the 62!
@@EscapementWatch yeah, the mm300 clasp should be on a more robust, if not, bulkier diver to balance out. Actually, almost all heritage inspired Seiko dive watches are best on a rubber strap. They were never designed to be on a bracelet and it shows as their integration seems an afterthought.
This should have been a King Seiko diver as the cognoscenti know it’s not a true MM.
what about the first Marinemaster watch a 100m quartz watch shown in the beginning of the video? is the 1ST MARINEMASTER not a true marinemaster?
@@EscapementWatch yep, but Seiko raised the bar with the monoblock case, 300m WR and the on the fly micro adjustment, which this watch has none of.
Needs applied indices at this price.
Seiko don't apply indices to prevent them falling off when diving. it isn't a cost measure as they use applied indices for far cheaper watches
The mid range 6R35 has a 70 hour power reserve. Why would you upgrade?
PR isn't as important as accuracy to some people. 45hours is fine for me for the all new arc
your Tudor pricing is incorrect . you can pick up a bb58 for 2200usd now on chrono , which is less than this BS seiko , you can also pick up omegas for 2-3 on gray market ......... on joma shop they are like 2800 to 3200 new before discounts and codes . just saying the market has changed and these prices and quality are shit
my pricing is correct. I only use MSRP new AD prices on the channel.
FML do you even read what you write - a USED TUDOR. Why are you comparing a New watch MSRP to Used and Grey market watches. Isn't that dumb? This seiko when used or on the grey market will easily undercut them or even with a reasonable discount brand new MSRP. So sick of idiotic comments like this.
Anyway I'm off to go an buy a 20 year old porsche boxster with 200, 000km on the clock for cheaper than a brand new GR86
I generally like Seiko watches, but a comparison of the new Seiko MM with the BB58 is like comparing apples with oranges.
no its not. I've owned a bb58 and the finishing on the hands were terrible and it had dust inside the sapphire just like my black bay 54. this seiko is superior in both aspects. Hands are night and day better finished and its much cleaner inside the case. means it was put together with care. As someone who used to build watches its not easy to do a clean seal. I bought 3 blackbays and examined them very close for hours. I love tudor as they fit my wrist the best with their shape and casebacks.
Also, go hang out in the Tudor Subreddit of Reddit. You will see QC horror story's every couple days. www.reddit.com/r/Tudor/comments/1bl8ohk/qc_issue_and_no_help_from_tudor_or_mayors/