AMP Press Annealing Brass: Annealed vs Non-Annealed
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- In this test we take ten once fired cases, reload them and seat the bullets using our new load cell equipped, automatic bullet seating tool we call the AMP Press. The first five cases were not annealed, the second five cases were annealed BEFORE sizing.
To find out more about what we do please visit www.ampannealing.com
OMG, I need this! 😱
You need to have a garage sale and invite only me first lol
Yes you do Eric, yes you do, soon as I seen this you came to mind instantly.
i have this. you are late ;) greetings from germany
@@Kpa1983 really? greetings from Germany!
If I had this, maybe I could catch up to Eric C ;) he he
Tubb has had that load sensor deal on his 6xc ammo machine for a very long time. Also, they did more tests and showed that cleaning the necks with a brush made the non annealed almost the same as the annealed.
We have found brushing the necks does change things as well as can be read about in one of our previous articles: www.ampannealing.com/articles/55/annealing-under-the-microscope/
You can also brush the annealed cases as well and make them perform even better again.
Wow. So a long range or extreme LR shooter could load a few hundred and throw out the highs and lows and keep all that are close together or (exactly) the same neck tension. That is good stuff right there.
Consistency is key when shooting for precision
Awesome. Looking forward to putting mine through its paces. Doing some testing and analytics now and this would certainly add huge value. Fantastic work, as always. You guys are a credit to the shooting community!
I wasn't sure what I was seeing until you explained it. Pretty cool. I can only dream of being at that level.
Very, very, impressive. Thank you.
Mr Bond: Q, I am gonna need some ammo for plinking today.
Q: Coming right up 007!
this is nerding out far beyond my capabilities..
That looks fun to build
Fantastic
Can't fricken wait!!
I think one needs to come here so I can test it to see how many cycles the solenoid lasts. 😎 Cheers
What was the scale and unit of measure on the graph?
Trying to understand how much of a difference there is in real terms between the data set.
I've always annealed my brass. What most people don't know it brass doesn't harden the same as steel, it is harded by pressure not heat. This means every time you fire a round the brass gets harder, eventually the neck will get so hard it will become brittle and crack when fired. Annealing softens the brass which prevents cracking and makes it last longer.
How much will annealed cases compared to non annealed effect bullet speed? In other words, I fire ten shots from my rifle with reloaded new cases and sight my rifle in for these loads, then I anneal them and reload them again, will my bullet speed and impact change due to less neck tension? I have annealed cases over the years for different reasons from fire forming to just better chamber seal, I always notice the brass is softer after annealing and bullet seating is much easier, leads me to believe neck tension is much less, will this cause less bullet speed?
We are currently conducting more testing and will be writing a big article soon on how different case prep and neck treatments can effect seating pressure and how it relates to velocity. It is a lot of reloading and shooting to do so it may take a while. Hopefully it will be done before Xmas.
@poor fellow This isn't true in practice different neck tension does assuredly change speeds. I've done controlled testing with the lab radar that verifies this. The harder the neck holds onto the bullet the more pressure builds behind it before release. It's the same reason that jamming the bullet hard into the lands can result in higher speeds as well. A softer neck will release the bullet more easily all other factors being equal. I saw speed differences of up to 80fps(3100fps avg speed on a 6BR with lapua brass) between once fired and 8x fired brass which had never been annealed. Powder was measured with a scientific scale to the kernel(0.02gn). Same gun, same day, same lot of brass. Final neck size was done with a mandrel giving 0.02 neck expansion on seating. There was also a noticeable but not measured difference in pushing the mandrel through and seating the bullet.
@poor fellow For most applications it won't matter. For precision shooting it does. 80 FPS extreme spread on a 95gn Berger VLD target round with a G1 BC of .467 has a drop of 39.57 inches at 500 yards at 3000fps and a drop of 36.93 inches at 3080. So a 2.64 inch difference at 500. At 1000 yards that difference expands to over 16 inches. Only you know if that difference will matter for your application. It definitely matters in scored precision shooting. Numbers assume a 100 yard initial sight in and were calculated using Strelok pro ballistic calculator.
One question that I would love answered conclusively is if annealing can bring cases that have been shot different amount of times without annealing each time back to equilibrium by annealing. For example taking a case that has been fired ten times and never annealed and a once fired case. Then annealing them both. Will the seating pressure, neck tension be equivalent. As someone buying an annealing machine for the first time will have cases that have been fired different amount of times. Annealing every time should mean you don't have to sort brass by firings anymore but can you "refresh" the old never annealed brass to be the same as once fired.
I have always wondered this. Unless your shooting an odd cartridge though, probably best to buy new brass.
I would like to add, the neck tension is a variable because they thicken with use. Cases fired more than 2 or three times have to be reamed or turned and then annealled.
@@kevinbarrett3 I have never observed any thickening of the neck at least in lapua brass. I neck turn my brass when it's new to uniform and size them for a custom chamber. I verify the thickness with a tube micrometer. I can say for sure that there hasn't been any noticeable(+-0.001) increase in 7 firings. Obviously different applications may have different results. I have observed elongation in some cases but that would suggest they're getting thinner not thicker as the brass spreads out to make them longer. This isn't a conclusive test just one based on my experience and materials on hand.
@@MMBRM since the video was concerning seating pressure ,I can assure you that these hotter belted mags do thicken the case necks. When a load or rifle seems to start opening up groups, that is when the seating pressures and hence ignition and bullet start is erratic. Ream them or turn them and bingo, I’ve never failed to see a benefit. I would partial full length size with a smaller expander button and ream after that. Then trim a bit and chamfer.
@@kevinbarrett3 We're clearly in agreement that it's important to have uniform neck thickness. Part of the control in answering my initial comment would have to be uniform neck thickness. If you're not annealing the different neck tension is also caused by the work hardening of the brass as firings accumulate(I've personally observed a difference of up to 80fps between once fired brass and 7x fired brass that hasn't been annealed with all other factors controlled). Obviously I haven't tested every situation, caliber, brass type and I don't have any personal experience with large caliber magnums. Just relaying my own experiences with data I've collected myself. Beyond that I don't presume to know.
Wow I need this but will never be able to afford I bet amazing bit of kit tho
Haven't they made this video before I'm pretty sure I've seen this exact same test before
Cool!!!!
It would be nice to see the difference on chronograph but not beautiful graphs only.
People keep saying that, and yet this press is about reducing the range of that one variable, neck tension. It’s up to the individual hand loader to minimize the other variables that affect combustion and M.V. E.S. Some of those are, powder type, powder charge weight, the primer, bullet consistency, case trimming and annealing, case sizing, ambient temperature, and the condition and temperature of the chamber and bore, to name a few. The proof will come from some of the top shooters who have figured this other stuff out to a high functioning level. Addressing the one variable of neck tension, the pressure graph is your best test and proof.
Damn you... I didnt know this tech existed... now I need it. DAMN YOU AND WHERE DO I GET IT! (I love the content but i just got a new nightforce so I apologize for my demeanor but im going to blame you regardless for enlightening me)
It looks like an interesting design. Have you done some long term longevity testing of the sensor and motor? Will there be a computer app with this design? Thx for sharing
We had one with the ram running on an auto cycle continuously for 24 hours and it showed no signs of any deterioration. It will initially be released with a Windows/Mac version of the software but it is also Bluetooth capable and there will be a phone/tablet version of the app released at a later date.
@@annealingmadeperfect1257 , Thank you for the quick reply. I'm looking forward to when it will be available for sale. As for the app, will it be able to perform a running average of the seating force and perhaps show the Hi/lo, SD and break down of individual cartridges loaded? This would allow a re-loader to segregate the out of tolerance cartridges quickly and fine tune the neck tension used.
@@anthonyc2370 Currently the data shown give an "Area under plot" calculation which we feel could be quite important. The Hi - Lo being used to determine an ideal zone is being worked on at the moment.
These ones! Really!
Neat project! What are the units of force on the y-axis out of curiosity?
You can make them either Pounds or Kilograms
how wide is the neck compared to bullet diameter or in other words how much necktension did you plan to have?
We were aiming for a 0.002'' interference fit in this instance.
💪🏽
what kind of press is that name
price point?
Please tell me this is for sale.
soon
That means nothing, show how they shot?
I honestly don’t see the need for it. Just another expensive toy to buy and I won’t see much of a difference